Baku Resorts to Violence as NKR Celebrates Independence

100 Comments

1. Why does this current Armenian regime keep going to these silly negotiations at all? And, are those long range rockets, hitting Armenian villages Russian made? TRUST NO ONE.

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   • Why does this current American regime—in the person of its Co-Chairman of the OSCE Minsk Group—keep making silly statements condemning the deliberate targeting of innocent civilians in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict without pinpointing that the attacks were carried out by the Azerbaijani side?

   • Azerbaijan uses Turkey-made TP-107 rocket launchers to shell Armenian positions: http://www.armradio.am/en/2015/08/25/azerbaijan-uses-tp-107-rocket-launchers-to-shell-armenian-positions/

   • Armenian “regime” ?
     What “regime” are you talking about ?

     The current RoA presidential administration keeps going to these silly negotiations because the 3 co-chairs of OSCE – US, France, and Russia – require it to: Armenia has no choice.
     Maybe you can convince them to do otherwise.
     Also, please volunteer to serve in NKR or RoA military ASAP, because as soon as those silly negotiations end, war will break out.

     {“… hitting Armenian villages Russian made?”}

     No, they are not Russian made.
     The 120mm mortar is Turkish: either manufactured in Turkey or Azerbaijan under license.

2. Rockets hitting Russian populated regions of Novorossiya are also Russian made. LEARN POLITICS.

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   • Before, People like you were claiming that those artillery and shelling, and snipery weaponry, were Israeli, or NATO made weaponry, and now smarten up people like you telling us LEARN POLITICS…

     There is no surprises, how many ordinary Armenians learnt “REAL POLITICS” where your beloved Putin, supply weaponry, for both, Axerbaijan and Armenia. Putin loves Armenia so much that he sold only 4 billion dollars weaponry to Turkic herds last year, and keep Armenian government, and corrupted MPs as political hostage!

3. “And, are those long range rockets, hitting Armenian villages Russian made?”

   And those long range 120mm mortar rockets, hitting Armenian villages, may be:
   a) Israel-made Soltam K6s;
   b) US-made M120s;
   c) Soviet-made 2B11 SANIs;
   d) French-made MO-120-RT-61s;

   . . .

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4. Are Armenia/NKR responding? I would assume they should be taking out those heavy caliber weapons, that would seem the only way, take those weapons out, maybe respond twice as hard, maybe that will quell the Azeris

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5. “heavy caliber fire from Azerbaijani positions near border villages in northeastern Armenia”

   In other words, never mind The NKR, the Azeri terrorist nation has actually launched a war with Armenia itself. This is actually an act of war against a sovereign nation. I am perplexed at how the Armenian government can even tolerate this for one second.

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6. I don’t want to draw a parallel between two events, but it is highly thought-provoking that just a month and a half after the infamous statement by the US Co-Chairman of the OSCE’s Minsk Group, in which he said the ‘occupied’ territories of Azerbaijan must be returned to Azeri control, the Azerbaijani army started carrying out raids on Armenian servicemen and attacks of the boarder villages.

   Random, are you listening?

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7. The clueless Neocon puppet continues propagandizing for his paymasters in Baku Khanate.
   The puppet cleverly phrased his tweet to leave the impression that it could be either side which fired the 120mm mortar.

   That 120mm mortar was fired towards Armenian positions from Azerbaijan – you idiot.
   That picture of the 120mm spent mortar was taken on Armenian land and published by NKR military – you idiot.

   Filthy Anti-Armenian, Anti-Christian Neocon scum.

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8. We learn the sad news about the killing of Armenian Servicemen from The Armenian Weekly, but that’s as far as the news is disseminated. Despite press releases, these events, important as they are, go unreported in mainstream U.S. media. Is there a way to break through the impasse? Is anyone interested in discussing this topic? If so, would the Weekly moderate a forum on it?

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9. An interesting test case.

   If there was _any_ evidence of Russian complicity in this latest outrage, this thread would be filled with dozens of anti-Russian comments.
   But the OSCE representative of US blatantly covers up for the criminal terrorists in Baku Khanate, and our perennially anti-Russian compatriots are strangely silent. Where are those random (lower case ‘random’) anti-Russian posters when you need them.

   So we have a poster that is concerned that Russian weapons might have been used in this case.
   Not Israeli.
   Not Turkish.
   But Russian.
   Do I detect a malodor of irrational anti-Russian bias ?
   Another of my compatriots keeps regurgitating the $4 Billion purchase of Russian military equipment by Azerbaijan.
   Never mind that _none_ of the equipment so purchased has been used by the criminal, terrorist Baku Khanate past several years against RoA or NKR. (as per military experts in RoA and NKR: but what do they know ? They have experts, and we have experts right here @ArmenianWeekly).

   I posed this question to our anti-Russian friends in another thread.
   Nobody answered, because nobody could.
   But I will re-post the gist of it here:

   1.Armenia asks Russia to leave RoA.
   2.Russia reluctantly complies.
   3.RoA will henceforth have to purchase weapons from whatever source, including Russia, at market prices: same as Azerbaijan.
   4.RoA has to deploy scarce troops to guard its border with Turkey.
   5.Turkey has a standing army of 500,000+ troops.
   6.Turkey can tap into its Turk population base of about 50 million to draft several million young men who are eager to kill Armenians.
   7.Armenia and NKR, with a population of about 3+ million, can never – never – hope to match the manpower that Turkey can raise.
   8.RoA has no superior air- force nor tactical nukes to stop the Turkish armored divisions racing towards Yerevan on the indefensible Ararat plane.
   9.After Russians leaves RoA, invadonomad Turks (of Asia Minor and Caucasus) get ready.
   10.Absent Turkish factor, RoA and NKR will crush and destroy Azerbaijan if it attempts to invade either RoA or NKR.
   11.However, with no Russian equalizer, things get dicey.
   12.Turkey does not actually need to invade RoA (although it could, at considerable political cost).
   13.All Turkey has to do is park a few armored divisions on the border of RoA: nobody in the West can say anything, because one is allowed to move its military around its own territory.
   14.RoA has no choice but to move several divisions to its border with Turkey: RoA military cannot be sure if it is a bluff; so it must do its best to block any potential invasion.
   15.In effect, now RoA will be forced to fight a two front war with its very limited human and military resources.
   16.Note: mighty Wehrmacht was unable to fight a two-front war; but tiny RoA can, Right ?
   17.Either Azerbaijan or Turkey creates an incident and Azerbaijan uses it to invade NKR with full force.
   18.With several badly needed divisions tied up on the Western border, Armenians fighters, despite heroic efforts, gradually lose ground.
   19.In desperation, RoA starts moving some divisions from the Western border to the battlefields on the East.
   20.Turks start violating Armenian airspace to let RoA military know that Turks can invade any time they want.
   21.RoA is in a bind: move divisions to East to prevent imminent defeat or keep division in the Western border, and face imminent defeat on the battlefront in the East.
   22.Good night NKR. Good night RoA.

   Now:

   Given the above, I ask you anti-Russian posters again: name _one_ country that is able _and_ willing to stop NATO member Turkey from threatening or invading Armenia.
   Please, pretty please with sugar on top: name just ONE.

   If you can’t – and I know you can’t – fish or cut bait.
   Enough of this.
   You guys are playing with the lives of our young men in RoA and NKR with your anti-Russian proselytizing.
   Enough already.
   This is no game.
   If you have time on your hands, spend it to help weaken and dismember the enemies of our people: Azerbaijan and Turkey.
   At its worst, Russia has _never_, repeat NEVER massacred Armenians.
   You can claim Russia has not helped: fine.
   But the _worst_ you can claim is that Russia has not helped: the WORST.
   Do you guys compare that to the massacres and genocides perpetrated by nomadic Turkic tribes against our Armenian Nation ?
   If you do, then there is nothing more for us to discuss here, is there ?

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   • {If there was _any_ evidence of Russian complicity in this latest outrage, this thread would be filled with dozens of anti-Russian comments. But the OSCE representative of US blatantly covers up for the criminal terrorists in Baku Khanate, and our perennially anti-Russian compatriots are strangely silent. Where are those random (lower case ‘random’) anti-Russian posters when you need them.}

     My sentiments exactly.

     This deathly silence on almost all issues non-Russian was detected several times in other threads.

     I have no clue as to where the lower case ‘random’ anti-Russian posters are, but, as I can see, the upper case one chose to comment in the “1.5 Million Minus 2: DNA Testing Brings Ancestors Back from the Dead” thread. Apparently, again, the DNA testing is a bigger thing for him than the ‘minor’ issue of Turkic violence against Armenia and Artsakh and the OSCE US rep’s anti-Armenian statement that preceded the violence.

   • We did not see any strong condemnations from Russia when the Artsakh helicopter was shot down last year. We got the same wishi-washi all-sides-must-have-restraint statement:

     http://asbarez.com/129516/artsakh-helicopter-downing-was-avoidable-say-lavrov-kerry/

     That helicopter was not attacking the Azeri side and was part of a military exercise. And yet it was shot down and the crew murdered. Completely unjustifiable act. And yet Lavrov says it was “avoidable” and “appeal to both sides”.

     If you want people to condemn the stupid @$%^& the American rep says, then you have to do the same to Russia, the country Armenia depends the most for her security. This should make any Armenian wonder where Russia stands on Artsakh independence.

     Speaking of independence, a question I’ve asked and never got an answer for is, why have Armenia and Russia not fully recognized Artsakh yet? Russia recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but not Artsakh. What are we waiting for? Are we being nice and conciliatory to the Azeris? Isn’t Artsakh’s independence unconditional?

   • Avery,

     You made a long list of points and I agree with most of them. Nobody is denying the existential threats facing Armenia and Artsakh from the Azeris and Turkey. Nor the attitudes and intentions of our enemies. And also the importance of Russian support in arms sales and the Rusian military precense in Armenia.

     However you also use the non-Russian military sales to Azerbaijan as red herring. Several billion dollars of brand new Russian military hardware simply cannot be ignored. The very real existential threat of Azeri invasion of Armenia and Artsakh will require tanks, fighter and other planes, helicopters and long range misiles. Isreali designed 4×4 vehicles and guns is not enough. The backbone of such an invasion will be Russian military hardware. So yes, the billions worth of Russian military sales to the Azeris simply cannot be brushed off so easily. Russian hardware is very popular because it gives you a lot of bang for the buck. And any export version of the hardware can be upgraded with advanced electronics and other more advanced parts. So buying Russian hardware is a good deal for the Azeris.

     And Russia is making money off of this. But I suppose what’s good for Mother Russia is good for Armenia right?

     And here’s my concern. Russia may want to have Armenia intact, but may be ok with giving Artsakh away if it benefits her. I hope I’m totally wrong about this, but Russia and Armenia have not fully recognized Artsakh. This puts Artsakh in a no-man’s land in terms of international recognition of independence. No matter how strong the Armenian will is, we need Russian weapons and Russia therefor is in control of the game.

     I can play amateur military analyst like you too.

     Several months ago Prez Sarkissian mentioned how Armenian soldiers on the front lines know they’re being fired on by Russian made weapons.

     http://news.am/eng/news/257686.html

     So what does he mean here?

   • {If you want people to condemn the stupid @$%^& the American rep says, then you have to do the same to Russia.}

     If we want to see people as unbiased and untasked as they claim to be, and also as indiscriminate on ‘bigger’ or ‘minor’ issues when it comes to security of Armenia and Artsakh, then these people must condemn not only Russian arms sale to AzerBEYjan, but also the position of the US government on the mode of settlement of the Artsakh conflict. These people must do so without infantile preconditions, such as “You condemn Russia—I will condemn the US”.

     Once again. The American rep, in his official capacity as representative of the United States government to an international organization, expressed the official position of his government. Whether this position was a “stupid @$%^&” or a statement in the highest degree of cleverness, it was still the official position of the government of the United States.

     The fact remains that, coincidentally or not, in just over a month after the statement was made, the Azeri army had carried out killings of Armenian servicemen and spellings of Armenian boarder villages. This must demonstrate to some one-sided people that the consequences of provocative political statements can be no less hazardous and destructive than the consequences of resumption of military operations.

   • The reason I brought up the idea of being critical of Russian response to Azeri attacks is that the US public position on Artsakh independence is brought up all the time some people here during heated debates of sensitive Armenian issues. “Why are you not condemning what the US said?” I don’t make such misdirections or pre-conditions during debates. I brought this Russian example paralleling the US public comments to make a point.

     These more-patriotic-than-thou games are really annoying and childish.

     Even Harout Sassounian wrote an article condemning those selling of weapons to the Azeris, but not a peep from those who start getting angry when someone else points out the Russian sales to the Azeris. Even Serj Sarkissian said something about Russian weapons in Azeri hands. Please go argue with him on how he’s wrong.

     What is the official position of Russia on Azeris sniping our soldiers, instigating attacks which Armenia has to respond to, shooting of Armenian villages along the border and the downing of the helicopter? But I suppose they won’t say anything because they have deals to make with the Azeris.

     There needs to be an arms embargo on Azerbaijan. If somehow one is adopted, will Russia go along with it? I have no idea, because the signals they are giving us is not 100% reassuring.

   • {The reason I brought up the idea of being critical of Russian response to Azeri attacks is that the US public position on Artsakh independence is brought up all the time by some people here during debates of Armenian issues.}

     And, consequently, the reason we brought up the idea of being critical of American official (not ‘public’, nice play upon words, but easily detectable, nonetheless) position on the mode of settlement of Artsakh conflict (not on ‘Artsakh independence’, nice substitution of notions, but easily detectable, nonetheless) is that some people here choose, rather curiously, to bring up non-stop the issue of Russian arms sale, but keep deathly silence, at the same time, on the US official position on the outcome of the Artsakh conflict, which preceded—coincidentally or not—the recent killings of Armenian servicemen and shelling of Armenian border villages by the Azeri army.

10. Avery jan, all I can say to you is BRAVO!

    Throughout history, rational minded, pragmatic patriots like you are the reason why our nation has been able to survive the periodic catastrophes that hit the region Armenia unfortunately finds itself in.

    Psychologically healthy people with normal functioning brains fully understand the crucial importance of Russian boots on the ground in Armenia because had the Russian Bear not been shielding Armenia’s western frontier against Turks, Armenia would have succumbed to regional predators a very long time ago and all our disgusting Russophobes would have been able to do is fall to the feet of Washingtonian replies and beg for mercy.

    With that said, I suspect most of the persistent Russophobes in these kinds of Armenian forums are either psychologically disturbed individuals or cyber warriors working for Washington based organizations. I say this because even the stupidest Armenian can eventually be made to understand that Armenia CANNOT live without Russia.

    God bless Mother Russia. God bless our Hayrenik. And may God help protect our centuries old alliance with the great Russian nation from all enemies both foreign and domestic.

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    • Interesting you ask God to bless Russia before Armenia. It’s kind of insulting actually. It should be Armenia first.

      Armenia benefits greatly from Russian security support. There is no doubt about it. The issue is that what sort of signals Russia is sending with regards to the end game of Artsakh independence? Are they for it? Asking such questions does not make one a Russaphobe but wondering what a major power like Russia wants out of all this.

      Armenia depends on Russia for security. That also means Russia can control the future of Artsakh. We Armenians can’t fight back without Russian weaponry, no matter how strong our will is.

      Right now it feels like Russia is playing games pitting Armenia and Azerbaijan against each other for her own benefit. In the meantime Armenian soldiers and villagers are getting killed.

      Why hasn’t Russia recognized Artsakh like other breakaway regions? What will the Azeris do if Russia and Armenia fully recognize Artsakh?

    • Harutic,
      You have missed little portion of Armenia’s historical war against Ottoman Turks, where invading Jihadists after wiping out of Western Armenian population, were onslaught to clean entire Armenian population of Eastern part.

      I wonder where were Lenin’s Russian patriotic soldiers, where they gave up Kars and Ardahan in favour of October revolution of 1917! Armenian men and women defeated invading Turks in Sardarabad war!

      May be it is a good time for people like your caliber and mentality to learn from our sad historical past, where our beloved country was cut in half in favor of Eastern and Western Emperors!

    • {The issue is that what sort of signals Russia is sending with regards to the end game of Artsakh independence?}

      Are only Russia’s signals with regards to the end game of Artsakh independence important? What about the signals other member-states of the OSCE’s Minsk Group are sending? What about the signals France is sending? What about the signals that the US has recently so unequivocally sent in that her government would wish the ‘occupied’ territories to be returned to the Azeris? Why, objectively, isn’t this a matter of concern?

    • {Right now it feels like Russia is playing games pitting Armenia and Azerbaijan against each other for her own benefit.}

      Considering it may feel so, Armenia still benefits from this, because Russia’s ‘games’ provide Armenia a guarantee of non-resumption of full-scale military operations by the superior manpower of the Turks in the east, and non-invasion by the superior forces of the Turks in the southwest.

      And your alternatives to Russia’s ‘playing games pitting Armenia and Azerbaijan against each other’ are?

      1. …

      2. …

      3. …

      4. …

      5. …

      P.S. Hope we will be spared of and our intelligence not be insulted by the fabulous ‘complementarity’ stratagem for Armenia.

    • Thanks Harutik.

      Oh, sorry: let me rephrase that.
      Just to keep our friend from Yerevan happy:

      Thanks Harutik jan.

    • john,

      These games of military parity is dangerous for Armenia since it might not take much to tip the balance in Azeri favor. Armenia needs to be militarily dominant over the Azeris for guaranteed security, even with a Russian base.

      It’s the reality but the military parity situation is a worrisome state to be in.

    • {These games of military parity is dangerous for Armenia[…]. Armenia needs to be militarily dominant over the Azeris for guaranteed security […].}

      And your alternatives for Russia’s ‘games’ of military parity and for a country that would make Armenia militarily dominant over the Azeris are?

      1. …

      2. …

      3. …

      4. …

      5. …

    • john,

      “Are only Russia’s signals with regards to the end game of Artsakh independence important? What about the signals other member-states of the OSCE’s Minsk Group are sending? What about the signals France is sending? What about the signals that the US has recently so unequivocally sent in that her government would wish the ‘occupied’ territories to be returned to the Azeris? Why, objectively, isn’t this a matter of concern?”

      Not, not just Russia, but Russia is the one delivering weapons to both Armenia and Azerbaijan in the billions. It’s Russia’s words that carry more weight because they are in control of the game. Not the rest of the Minsk group. That’s why people are more concerned by the signals being sent by Russia. And so are the Azeris. Downing of the helicopter and incursions and shellings are a way of testing Russia’s support for Armenia+NKR. Also when the Minsk starts to not pay attention, Azeris attack to get attention.

      I think many people expected or hoped for stronger words from Russia on the downing of the helicopter. At least I did.

    • {Russia is the one delivering weapons to both Armenia and Azerbaijan in the billions.}

      We already discussed the issue of military parity that’s needed to prevent the situation on the ground from spinning out of control. Why are you making the same silly statement?

      {It’s Russia’s words that carry more weight because they are in control of the game.}

      Not only Russia is in control of the game. Maybe to a greater degree. But so is the US. Russia just happens to be geopolitically closer and maintains a military base in Armenia. But hardly has Russia ever uttered anti-Armenian words to the effect that ‘occupied’ territories must be returned to Azeri control.

      {Not the rest of the Minsk group. That’s why people are more concerned by the signals being sent by Russia.}

      Not true. It is the Minsk group, all three co-chairs, that is important, and people are equally concerned by the signals emanating from any of them individually or all of them collectively. Again, hardly ever have the French or Russian co-chairs called for the return of ‘occupied’ territories to the Azeri control.

      {I think many people expected or hoped for stronger words from Russia on the downing of the helicopter.}

      Random, you’re amazing… Here you are hearing the news about the US co-chair calling for the return of ‘occupied’ territories to the Azeris. Yet, you never uttered a word of criticism for such an explicitly anti-Armenian statement, but had expectations for ‘stronger words’ from Russia on one of many border skirmishes on the LoC.

11. In reference to Joe’s September 5th comment, the answer is very clear. Armenia is no Israel, where they have the full financial and military protection of the West, we are a nation of only between 10 and 11 million people as opposed to Turkey’s mass population not to mention the Azeris. Unless we, Armenians, multiply like Jackrabbits in the next 35 years and have population of somewhere between 55 and 60 million, no naton will take us seriously. We shall continously run around like a circus freak and ask,ODARS, to do our dirty work. There’s an old Armenian saying,’ Dzur nesdink, shidag khosink.’

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12. A Russian alliance may be required for our security at this time, but it shouldn’t deflect from the fact that people in Armenia are in bad shape economically and looking for the first opportunity to leave. The corruption in the government is a big reason for this, lets not fool ourselves. that corruption needs to be cleaned up. I don’t see why we can’t have a more democratically minded government while at the same time still maintaining our alliances with the Russians. Otherwise Armenia will eventually become nothing more than a second Kaliningrad at best.

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13. “Harutik”,

    You and your Avery Jan are equally as full of crap as James Warlick is. As usual, you and your partner are continuously attempting to cover up the extremely harmful sale of four billion dollars worth of heavy arms by your Russia to Armenia’s mortal enemy (Azerbaijan), which is, of course, for the purpose of killing Armenians. This is equally as irrational and foolish as James Warlick’s persistent covering up of Azerbaijani terrorist acts against Armenia and Artsakh.

    In regard to the crucial importance of Russia’s military presence on Armenia’s soil to shield it against the Turks, it certainly hasn’t been shielding Armenia against the Azeri Turks. As you can see in the above article, the Turkbaijanis have taken their terrorism to an even higher level now by launching long-range rocket attacks on twenty of Armenia’s border villages. But yet, Armenia’s “ally” (Russia) isn’t doing anything about it. This is indeed disgusting!

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    • Yerevanian,
      Does Russia have the power, or more correctly, the legal right to stop other countries from selling weapons to Azerbaijan? If the answer is no (it is), then Russia selling weapons to Azerbaijan is the right thing to do and in the interest of Armenia, because when you know what your enemy has, you know what they are capable of and not. And if the answer is yes (it isn’t) then that means Russia is perhaps the ruler of the world, and this discussion starts to leave reality.

      We can all agree that a nation such as Azerbaijan, whose “government” is not sane, should be under an arms embargo by all technological nations. But unfortunately for us, Armenia does not have any black gold to offer the world for such ideas to even be considered. Thus your, and others’ anti-Russia hysteria is unfounded.

    • “then Russia selling weapons to Azerbaijan is the right thing to do and in the interest of Armenia, because when you know what your enemy has, you know what they are capable of and not”

      Unfortunately that goes the other way as well. It means Azeris know about Armenian military hardware. On top of that, they can supplement their military with non-Russian hardware we don’t have access to.

      And not only get non-Russian hardware but do after-market upgrades to their Russian tanks and planes, with better electronics such as radar and jamming.

      In my non-expert view, the Azeris have an advantage with this mix of Russian and non-Russian mix.

      Armenia must increase military development cooperation with Russia (this may be happening silently I hope) and also increase home-grown military production employing Armenian engineers in Armenia. Upgrading the small fleet of su-25s with more advanced electronic warfare technology would be one area.

14. The anti-Russian posters endlessly regurgitating the same retreads and asking the same questions, which they claim have not been answered, have yet to name that one country which is able and willing to replace Russia as the guarantor of RoA’s inviolability vs NATO member Turkey.

    Until they do, they are just whistling Dixie.

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15. Hagop,

    “Russia selling weapons to Azerbaijan is the right thing to do, and in the interest of Armenia.”

    This particular statement is the same old statement that those Russian nationalists endlessly regurgitate over and over again. You honestly believe that the four billion dollar sale of heavy Russian military arms to the terrorist state of Azerbaijan (who wishes to destroy Armenia) is the right thing to do, and in the interest of Armenia? Well, if you truly believe this, it then shows that you really don’t care about the large numbers of Armenians who could possibly be killed by those heavy Russian military arms if a full-scale war were to erupt between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    In terms of Armenia knowing what kind of Russian military arms the Azerbaijanis possess, likewise, the Azerbaijanis also know what kind of Russian military arms are possessed by Armenia. Therefore, what sort of an advantage is this for Armenia?

    In regard to being “anti-Russia,” I’ve never once advocated for the removal of Russia’s military from Armenia. In fact, I have always fully agreed that Russia’s military presence on Armenia’s soil is crucial in case of an attack by its neighbors. However, the Russians are not fulfilling their obligation. They’ve been blessed with the enormous luxury of being right next to the vital Middle East, as well as being right next to NATO’s Middle East headquarters (Turkey); in addition, impoverished Armenia happens to be paying for the Russian military’s expenses (which is totally ridiculous); but yet, whenever Azerbaijan launches terrorist attacks against Armenia, the Russian military never does anything about it. They haven’t even condemned the Azerbaijanis for any one of those terrorist attacks. Once again, this is not the definition of protecting Armenia.

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    • That logic still does not work, because knowing the majority of the enemies arsenal is still better than not knowing anything about it at all, in the scenario where Russia sells nothing. There is no alternative. No one is saying they are happy about Russian sales of arms to Azerbaijan, even the Armenian government doesn’t like it. Despite Russia’s sales of weapons, the US, UK Turkey and Israel are all more guilty for their support of the Baku gas station. Of these countries, Israel stands out as the most guilty. Russia, USA and UK want one thing: money and/or oil. But Israel has started to talk about “the historic deep rooted friendship between Jews and Azerbaijanis” thereby sticking its nose where it does not belong and meddling in Armenia’s war by blatantly taking the side of terrorist genocide perpetrators.

    • “No one is saying they are happy about Russian sales of arms to Azerbaijan, even the Armenian government doesn’t like it.”

      So expressing unhappiness about the Russian sales is actually acceptable? Then what’s with all this anti-Russian and Russaphobe accusations being thrown around? There is hypocrisy here about criticism of Russia. Some people can do it without being accused of being anti-Russian but some can’t.

      Why hasn’t Russia raised her voice on the attacks on Armenian soldiers and civilians at the borders? Why didn’t Russia condemn the downing of the helicopter? It’s something Armenians want to hear from Russia.

    • {Why hasn’t Russia raised her voice on the attacks on Armenian soldiers and civilians at the borders? Why didn’t Russia condemn the downing of the helicopter? It’s something Armenians want to hear from Russia.}

      Why haven’t you raised your voice on the official statement by the representative of the US government to the OSCE’s Minsk Group, in which he said that ‘occupied’ territories of Azerbaijan must be returned to Azeri control, triggering recent killings of Armenian servicemen and shelling of Armenian border villages by the Azeris? Why didn’t you condemn the official statement same US government official had made, in which he condemned the deliberate targeting of innocent civilians in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict without specifying that those civilians were Armenian villagers and that the 120mm mortar—the pic of which he posted in his tweet—was fired towards Armenian positions from Azerbaijani territory? It’s something Armenians want to hear from you.

    • {So expressing unhappiness about the Russian sales is actually acceptable? Then what’s with all this anti-Russian and Russaphobe accusations being thrown around?}

      You don’t understand? Still? Let me make it clear for you.

      There is nothing unacceptable when one chooses to express unhappiness about the Russian sales if he or she feels like it or if he or she is not sagacious enough to understand the inner workings of politics and military strategy. Accusations of anti-Russism and Russophobia arise when someone who chooses to criticize Russian arms sale does so in a biased, single-sided manner and in virtually every thread that deals—either expressly or by implication—with issues related to RoA and NK’s security. If that person considers himself an unbiased, concerned Armenian having no ulterior motives in these pages, then conventional logic suggests that such a person should express unhappiness about everything that affects RoA and NK’s security. And this is exactly what AW readers aren’t noticing in many of your and couple of other people’s posts. Why is it that one issue affecting RoA and NK’s security is being profusely criticized (again, it is acceptable), but other issues, such as Warlick’s anti-Armenian statement that—coincidentally or not—preceded recent killings and shelling or his ridiculous most recent tweet or Victoria Nuland’s urge to Armenian authorities to release Azeri murderers—are not?

      When you care to think about it you’ll hopefully come to understand where all these anti-Russian and Russaphobe accusations crop up.

      Unless, of course, some people here are tasked by their managements to keep harping on the same string no matter what.

    • Hagop,

      Having knowledge in regard to what kind of military weapons are possessed by your enemy is certainly better than not having any knowledge at all; but yet, if that particular enemy happens to also have knowledge in regard to the kinds of military weapons you possess, then there’s obviously no advantage for either side in that particular department.

      Random Armenian,

      It’s quite amusing how that one particular poster is persistently following you around from page to page, and asking you that same question over and over, as to why you haven’t been critical of James Warlick’s statements in regard to Armenia. Well, why don’t you ask him why he’s never been critical of Russia’s foul treatment towards Armenia?

    • “Why haven’t you raised your voice on the official statement by the representative of the US government to the OSCE’s Minsk Group, in which he said that ‘occupied’ territories of Azerbaijan must be returned to Azeri control, triggering recent killings of Armenian servicemen and shelling of Armenian border villages by the Azeris?”

      For one thing, I am not a major world power that is selling weapons all over the world and actually has the power to tell the Azeris to knock it off. There is no equivalency here.

      Listen, when reading these comments by the Minsk people, we all get upset, but very few post comments about it. And that’s because they don’t have to. And neither do I. Me posting on AW condemning the Minsk comments is not going to change anything. The Minsk is not going to read it and neither are the Azeris who are feeling emboldened with all the weapons they buying up. The only people it seems to matter is you and a few others.

      ” It’s something Armenians want to hear from you.”
      No. Not Armenians, but only a bunch of self-appointed patriots who feel they can judge other Armenians and demand that people condemn something before they can post anything else on a comment board they don’t own! Seriously. Is this conversation even real?

      When Sarkissian talked about Armenian soldiers facing Azeris with Russian weaponry, he was talking on behalf of those soldiers and rest of Armenia. It would seem that’s something on the minds of Armenians in Armenia. Or is Sarkissian out of touch with the people of Armenia and Artsakh and the soldiers on the front line?

      The point of all this back and forth is that no Armenian needs to condemn the Minsk group in writing on AW just because ‘john’ demands to be satisfied.

    • ‘John’ doesn’t demand anything. As in any intellectual debate, john asks for clarification of a position or a statement made by another poster, or the absence thereof. And everything you said above is just an idle attempt to camouflage your excessive sensitivity towards one issue and total disregard for the other. However nonequivalent, in your opinion, these two may be. It is indicative of a bias. You either don’t understand or you understand but play dumb because of your bias and/or agenda. I’m disposed to think that the latter is true.

    • “It’s quite amusing how that one particular poster is persistently following you around from page to page, and asking you that same question over and over, as to why you haven’t been critical of James Warlick’s statements in regard to Armenia.”

      Yes, and then they accuse others of making preconditions for discussion on AW. Amazing. And the accusations of Russia-hating and being a Turkophile and so on. Starts to really ruin the discussion even if one can brushe off the insults.

16. Rather than bickering amongst yourselves, I suggest the readers with anti-Russian sentiments to take the time and read the ,russo-persian war, and the Treaty of TurkmenChay and discover how Aran province of Iran, became today’s , Fake Republic of Azerbaijan and how the trans-Caucasian region fell under Russia’s yoke. That ought to settle the problem.

    Reply

    • Indeed “Azerbaijan” used to be part of greater Iran in recent history, but it still does not change the fact that the region was part of Armenia in history before the Persians expanded.

      Azerbaijan was not founded by Russia, it was founded by the Genocide Perpetrators of WWI in their pan-Turkic effort to wipe out Armenians from their last remaining ancestral sliver of land, now called Armenia.

    • And what exactly does the Treaty of Turkmenchay and the Arran province have to do with Russia’s failure to fulfill its obligation in protecting Armenia from terrorist attacks by its neighbors?

      Prior to Iran’s Arran province becoming today’s fake republic of Azerbaijan, this particular province (which is called Aghvank in Armenian) had actually been a part of historic Armenia.

17. (Random Armenian // September 12, 2015 at 1:18 pm //)

    { Speaking of independence, a question I’ve asked and never got an answer for…..}

    You keep asking that ridiculous question, knowing full well it is a ridiculous question, but you keep asking it because you are desperate to find something, anything to beat Russia over the head with.
    You want to play that game ?
    OK, let’s play.
    Why hasn’t US recognized NKR ?
    Why hasn’t France recognized NKR ?
    After all both US and France have recognized Kosovo: Russia has not.
    Remember Kosovo ? a dysfunctional non-state run by gangsters and terrorists, set up by NATO criminals and KLA terrorists.
    One of the leaders (former PM) of the non-state, Hashim Thaci, has been (very plausibly) accused of organ trafficking (!)
    The whole non-state is run as a criminal enterprise: organ trafficking*, drug trafficking, human trafficking.
    In the 2010 Trafficking in Persons Report (US Sate Dept: Trafficking in Persons Report 2010), Kosovo was identified as source, transit and destination country for women and children, victims of the human trafficking, especially forced prostitution.
    That crime-syndicate is what US and France have recognized as a sovereign state: what a sick joke.
    Again why don’t you, Random, ask this question: “Why hasn’t US or France recognized NKR; after all they recognized Kosovo”.
    Why do you keep ragging on Russia and RoA ?
    How come you keep ragging on Russia, but conveniently ignore US and France.

    As to {“…. a question I’ve asked and never got an answer for is…”}

    If I answer it, again, will you stop asking it ?
    Or you can’t help yourself.
    ——-
    * [Reporting for the BBC, investigative journalist Michael Montgomery learned that political opponents of the KLA and Serb prisoners of war “simply vanished without a trace” into a secret prison “in the Albanian border town of Kukes.”
    According to sources who feared for their lives, including former KLA guerrillas, the BBC revealed that disappeared civilians “were Serbs and Roma seized by KLA soldiers and were being hidden away from Nato troops. The source believes the captives were sent across the border to Albania and killed.”
    In an uncanny echo of Nazi practices during the period of the Third Reich, The New York Times reported that “captives” were “‘filtered’ for their suitability as donors, based on sex, age, health conditions and ethnic origin. “We heard numerous references to captives’ not merely having been handed over, but also having been ‘bought’ and ‘sold,’” the special rapporteur told the Times.]

    ** http://www.globalresearch.ca/kosovo-europe-s-mafia-state-hub-of-the-eu-nato-drug-trail/22486

    Reply

    • addendum: we kindly ask Random to cite the date and the utterance of representatives of the two other OSCE chairs – Russia and France – that is substantially similar to what Warlick spewed about the alleged “occupied territories”.
      http://asbarez.com/137775/us-osce-co-chairman-is-sounding-more-like-aliyev/

    • {we kindly ask Random to cite the date and the utterance of representatives of the two other OSCE chairs – Russia and France – that is substantially similar to what Warlick spewed about the alleged “occupied territories”.}

      In our dreams, Avery. When our ‘friend’ from Yerevan was urged to cite the date and the utterance of the OSCE Minsk group’s Russian rep that is similar to the US rep’s lecturing the Armenian side about what they must surrender, all we got was crickets chirping.

    • {Again why don’t you, Random, ask this question: “Why hasn’t US or France recognized NKR; after all they recognized Kosovo”.}

      Or even further: “Why has the US—a country that herself emerged on the political map as a result of entertaining the right to self-determination by the Thirteen Colonies and their proclamation of independence from Great Britain—not recognized the same right of the Armenians of Artsakh and their independence from Azerbaijan?”
      A day or two before July 4th John Adams wrote:
      “The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized […] from this time forward forever more.”

      Why is it that the US celebrates her independence as “the day of deliverance”, but impedes the recognition of Artsakh’s independence as such? Or recognizes the independence of Kosovo failing—roughly at the same time—to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia?

    • “How come you keep ragging on Russia, but conveniently ignore US and France.”

      1) It’s not ragging on Russia. Simply a concern because a major power (just happens to be Russia) will play the geopolitical games for their favor, regardless of what it means to the little guys. Russia can tip the balance either way, for or against Armenia. That’s what major powers have done for millennia.

      2) As implied above, Russia is the biggest player here. Not the US and not France. The US can complain about the Azeri saboteurs/killers put on trial in Artsakh, but they can’t influence their release. But if for some reason Russia had an opinion on it, that would be harder to ignore.

      And you have some of the strangest responses sometimes. What does criminal activities in Kosovo have anything to do with Artsakh?

    • {It’s not ragging on Russia. Simply a concern because a major power (Russia) will play the geopolitical games for their favor, regardless of what it means to the little guys. Russia can tip the balance either way, for or against Armenia. That’s what major powers have done for millennia.}

      At last… “That’s what major powers have done [to the little guys] for millennia“… Random, could you repeat this (twice, if you will) to a couple of posters here so they stop making silly statements about Russia’s—and Russia’s only—‘foul treatment’ of Armenia? Regardless, I still think that Russia’s ‘geopolitical games’ for her favor—at this historical stage and the politico-military environment RoA and NK find themselves in—are still beneficial for the both Armenian entities, because these ‘games’ help preserve the military equilibrium on the ground, which both of them are in greater need than their enemies.

      {The US can complain about the Azeri saboteurs/killers put on trial in Artsakh, but they can’t influence their release.}

      Excuse me? The US hasn’t just ‘complained’ about the Azeri saboteurs/killers. She pressured the Armenian side for the release of them.

    • How did she pressure NKR for the release of the killers? I only remember hearing a statement.

    • {The US can complain about the Azeri saboteurs/killers put on trial in Artsakh, but they can’t influence their release.} –Poster ‘Random’.

      “I did speak about the terrible crime that was committed. It was obviously a crime. That said, we do call on relevant authorities to make the kind of humanitarian gesture [release the murderers – john] that I spoke of at my previous press event [held while she was in Azerbaijan, where she said she would “take up the matter of releasing the two imprisoned Azeris” when she’d visit Armenia – john]”. –Victoria Nuland at a news conference in Yerevan in February 2015.

      How is the above a ‘complaining’ by any criterion of the target (English) language, I beg to know?

      ‘Call on’, phrasal v.: ‘demand that (someone) do something’. –Oxford English Dictionary. And, as intellectuals posting here surely know, ‘do’ before a verb is generally used to put an emphasis on the fact. That is, “we do call on” = “we amply demand”. ‘Take up’ (a matter), v.: to pursue. To ‘take up the matter of releasing the two imprisoned Azeris’ = ‘to pursue the release’. Not just complain or make a further statement.

      In light of these definitions, how is Nuland’s statement just a ‘complaining’ and not pressuring?

      Random, would the US government release Dzhokhar Tsarnaev to Russia as “a humanitarian gesture” to better relations with Putin?

    • Pressuring involves more than just publicly asking for something to be done. It involves using leverages the US may have on other countries. The US does not have the leverage Russia has and as far as I know, the killers are still held in Artsakh. And I have not heard anything more since that public statement from the US about the killers.

      And of course the US would not releaes Tsarnaev. What’s that got to do with anything.

      The point I’m making here is that demands from the US side has no effect since they have no leverage to pressure Artsakh on this.

      What this does do however make it clear where they stand on the conflict. Which is good for us to know.

    • {Pressuring involves more than just publicly asking for something to be done.}

      Nuland wasn’t ‘publically asking’. She was officially (i.e. in her official capacity) demanding (‘do call on’ = amply demand).

      {It involves using leverages the US may have on other countries. The US does not have the leverage Russia has and as far as I know, the killers are still held in Artsakh.}

      Yes, it does. The very fact that Nuland pocked her big nose into other nations’ sovereign affairs demonstrates that the US feels that she does have leverage on both Armenia and Azerbaijan. We haven’t heard a French or Russian statement urging the Armenian authorities to release the Azeri murderers.

      {And I have not heard anything more since that public statement from the US about the killers.}
      Official statement, Random. Public, adj.: 1. ‘of or concerning the people as a whole’. Official, adj. 1.: ‘relating to an authority and its actions’. Oftentimes, just one statement from a rep of such country as the US is enough to cause commotion. Warlick’s statement—remember?—“a little thing that goes in the Armenian world” in your own words, contributed to recent killings and shelling of Armenian villages.

      {And of course the US would not release Tsarnaev. What’s that got to do with anything.}

      It has to do with something in that the US fails to realize how other nations might feel in roughly similar situations.

      {The point I’m making here is that demands from the US side has no effect since they have no leverage to pressure Artsakh on this.}

      They do have an effect since they can aggravate the regional situation and trigger hostilities. The consequences of their effect we see as we write.

    • “Yes, it does. The very fact that Nuland pocked her big nose into other nations’ sovereign affairs demonstrates that the US feels that she does have leverage on both Armenia and Azerbaijan. ”

      That makes no sense to me. Official, yes, but it did not go anywhere because the US does not have other points of leverage on Artsakh. The way I see it, she said the official thing she was supposed to say and that was it. I have not heard it repeated by her nor the US ambassador to Armenia. And the killers are still held by Artsakh.

      It’s frustrating to hear the official stance of the US is that these guys who crossed over and killed Armenians should be let go. Completely ignoring the due process they were given, and the fact that murders occurred, but that they don’t care. The US is making very clear which side they are siding with.

      But other than that, there does not appear to be anything else they can do to have these guys released.

    • {The very fact that Nuland pocked her big nose into other nations’ sovereign affairs demonstrates that the US feels that she does have leverage on both Armenia and Azerbaijan. –That makes no sense to me.}

      Well, too bad. Because as a high-ranking State Department official, whose country is bound to employ the principle of neutrality and impartiality as a member of the OSCE Minsk group, she chose to side with one party and interfere in a domestic affair of the other one. This is an element of influencing and/or pressuring and not ‘complaining’, as you misrepresent.

      “The way I see it, she said the official thing she was supposed to say and that was it. I have not heard it repeated by her nor the US ambassador to Armenia. And the killers are still held by Artsakh.”

      So you think that she was ‘supposed’ to say that official thing? Why would a rep of the OSCE Minsk group member-state be supposed to say such official thing? Your counterargument doesn’t hold water. And, again, in many cases, a US rep doesn’t have to repeat anything. Warlick’s one statement had contributed to provoking recent killings of Armenian servicemen and civilians and shelling of Armenian border villages. You fail to recognize that a single statement by a US government official has the potential of aggravating the regional situation. This is what all mightier countries either fail to realize or realize well, but just don’t care.

      {But other than that [siding with a party], there does not appear to be anything else they [the US officials] can do to have these guys released.}

      There is. They can shut their big filthy mouth up when it comes to domestic sovereign affairs of other nation-states.

18. Several faulty analogies were made by the anti-Russian posters with an agenda to again create mistrust amongst our peoples (Armenians and Russians) with the ultimate goal of having Russia leave Armenia and expose our two republics to the two genocidal Turkic states.
    That agenda is not obvious of course.
    But as [John] wrote above: “ nice play upon words, but easily detectable, nonetheless”; “nice substitution of notions, but easily detectable, nonetheless”

    So who do these posters propose will replace Russia as the guarantor of RoA safety from NATO member Turkey invasion ?
    We don’t know: they are still evaluating several candidates, since they have not told us.

    While we are waiting for them to come up with that one mythical country that will replace Russia, we will address some of the points they raised in this thread.

    1. To synthesize several of the similar comments: “With both Armenia and Azerbaijan having the same Russian hardware, both know the others’ capability, therefore Russia selling hardware to Azerbaijan is no advantage to Armenia”.

    [HagopD] addressed it already, but I will add some more detail (….can’t help myself).

    a) Again: the anti-Russian crew is deliberately misdirecting.
    Again: Armenia has no choice. Armenia has no money to buy the quantity of weapons it needs on the open market at market prices.
    Armenia has no choice but to buy Russian equipment at strategic partners’ discount or at cost.
    Or get it free.
    Azerbaijan has lots of choices.
    Is it advantageous for Azerbaijan to buy Russian ?
    Of course: Azerbaijan SSR, was like, you know, part of USSR.
    Their military personnel are quite familiar with Soviet/Russian equipment. However, if Russia did not sell, others would line up to sell: China; Turkey; Israel; several former Warsaw Block countries (e.g. Poland).

    So, what about that ‘advantage’ thing ?
    If Azerbaijan had mostly Israeli and Turkish equipment, then Armenia would know very little about them.
    Azerbaijan would know a lot about Armenia’s Russian equipment (..mostly from Soviet era knowledge base).
    Therefore, Azerbaijan would have the advantage.

    By logical induction then, since Azerbaijan and Armenia will be on equal footing* both having Russian equipment, then it is advantageous for Russia to sell hardware to Azerbaijan.
    If not, Azerbaijan would have the advantage.
    See how easy it is to see things in the right light if you put your mind to it ?
    Try it, it’s great and I highly recommend it: your blood sugar will normalize; your blood pressure will normalize; your gray hairs will gradually disappear…

    b) If Israel and Turkey were the major suppliers of hardware to Azerbaijan there would be _no_ restrictions on their use against RoA or NKR.
    On the contrary: there would be encouragement.
    On the other hand, Russia has warned Sultan Aliyev Jr that there is no military solution to NK “problem”
    Several times.
    (read: “do not use weapons we sell you against NKR or RoA”)
    Is there a guarantee that Azerbaijan will never use Russian weapons against NKR or RoA ?
    No: there is never a guarantee in this world in such matters.
    But Azerbaijan would not have to worry about any blowback if Israel and Turkey, two _enemies_ of RoA, were to use them against RoA.

    2. {“In my non-expert view, the Azeris have an advantage with this mix of Russian and non-Russian mix.”}

    One does not have to be a military expert to have common sense.
    There is absolutely no advantage in having a mish-mash mix of military hardware.
    Even your favourite Turkophile NATO has recognized that fact**.
    On the contrary, the advantage is in standardization and having fewest number of different hardware that do the same or similar jobs.

    RoA and NKR military and civilians leaders are war veterans with actual war experience.
    RoA President Sargsian, NKR President Bako Sahakyan, former NKR DM Movses Hakobyan, RoA DM Seyran Ohanyan,….
    All participated in the Artsakh War of Survival and Liberation.
    Ilham is a playboy, who evaded the NKR war, partying in Baku, while the less-connected “Azerbaijanis” were being ‘welcomed’ by Artsakh’s mountain warriors.
    Ilham and his “military” brass are corrupt to the core.
    They are spending $billions buying stuff from all over the world, because they get a cut and kickbacks from military contracts.
    People who have actual war experience know what is needed and what works in war.

    Those who advocate for Armenia to buy shiny new military toys from everybody and his brother on the world markets are too clever by a half.
    They want Armenia to waste precious defense funds on useless junk, and thus become less combat ready.
    Too weak for Turkic invaders.
    Nice try: too obvious.
    You are clever, but too clever by half for us yokels.
    Try something else.

    Additional posts, will debunk (by AW leave) other disinformation proffered by our anti-Russian partners.
    —-
    * On the surface: nobody but Russian, RoA, and NKR military know what advanced Russian equipment RoA and NKR have.

    ** http://www.nato.int/structur/ac/135/ncs_brochure/ncs_brochure_e/chapters/9_advantages_e.htm
    [OPERATIONAL ADVANTAGES
    This system contributes to equipment standardization efforts, which support interoperability, as several weapon systems spare parts can be used interchangeably with others.
    A national and NATO wide knowledge of all available military assets and resources allows for :
    -rationalisation of inventory management by sharing resources spare parts and maintenance activities;
    -the minimum distribution of essential spare parts during the deployment of forces in a theatre of operation.]

    Reply

    • “So who do these posters propose will replace Russia as the guarantor of RoA safety from NATO member Turkey invasion ?”

      Nobody is trying to replace Russia or kick Russia out. This is a dishonest statement on your part Avery.

19. @ Yerevanian,
    If we use your logic, maybe we should have ,CSTO, send troops to Armenia and protect the eastern borders, while,the Russians stationed @ 102nd airbase in, Gyumri, protecting the western front. What say you?

    Reply

20. Our Western-led Russophobes are once again shamelessly digging at the bottom of the proverbial barrel to find dirt on Armenia’s ONLY ally, Moscow. The following are some geopolitical nuances to consider:

    Because post-Soviet Russia was on its knees during the 1990s, Western powers aligned with Islamic radicals were able to start an Islamic uprising in southern Russia and severe Kosovo away from Serbia. But even in the chaotic 1990s, Moscow mustered enough strength to threaten Turkey with a world war when Ankara was prepared to invade Armenia to help their Azeri brothers. Look at what Moscow has been doing in Syria in recent times, a land far from its borders and imagine what Moscow would do today if Armenia was ever threatened again.

    The reason why our Russophobes are not lamenting at the feet of Western officials for the lose of Artsakh or worst, is Russia’s willingness to protect Armenia from all regional predators. The reason why we have an Armenia – and an Artsakh – in a violent and an unforgiving place like the South Caucasus is the Russian factor in the region.

    Let’s recall that Armenia was on the losing side in Artsakh when the Soviet Union was in existence and Soviet troops were aiding Azeris for the sole purpose of keeping Soviet borders intact. Armenians began winning once the Soviet Union dissolved during late 1991 and a Russian state was reborn. The first significant military victory Armenians registered during the war was in Khojalu in early 1992. Khojalu was the first Armenian military operation directly supported by Russia troops. After the Soviet Union had retired into the pages of history and a new geopolitical reality came into existence, Russia began airlifting massive amounts of modern arms into Armenia to ensure an Armenian victory.

    Nevertheless, without Russia, not even a million of our anti-Russian cyberwarriors would be able to prevent the re-Turkification or the re-Islamization of Armenia.

    More geopolitical nuances to consider:

    Russian officials waited nearly twenty years before they were able to free Abkhazia and South Ossetia and they waited decades before they could liberate Crimea. In other words, Moscow itself waited decades for the right opportunity to liberate territories that it see as being part of Russia. So, what gives Armenians the idea that Russians have to recognize Karabakh simply because that is what we Armenians want?

    Besides, Moscow already recognizes Karabakh unofficially.

    With that said, let’s recall that Russian officials are on record for stating that it is up to official Yerevan to first recognize Karabakh.

    Anyway, despite the fact that Russia has always propped up our tiny, impoverished, remote, landlocked and blockaded nation against Turks and Azeris, let’s recognize that Russia is not in a state of war with Azerbaijan. Moscow therefore seeks to keep cordial relations with Baku, as much as possible, considering that Moscow is the only reason why Turks have not finished off Armenians. Therefore, we Armenians cannot and should not expect Russians to lose their grip over Baku (something which in fact is in Armenia’s interest) especially when official Yerevan participates in all sorts of NATO programs.

    With all that said, I have no doubt that Moscow will eventually recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia, even though it already does so unofficially. It’s only a matter of time before it does so officially. Simply put: The right geopolitical circumstances have to first be in place – as in Crimea, as in Abkhazia, as in South Ossetia. But it should also be said that Moscow will officially recognize Karabakh ONLY if it is 1000% sure of Armenia’s alliance with Russia. Sadly, I am not even 50% sure of Armenia’s alliance with Russia. Yerevan’s “complimentary politics” has some positives but also many negatives. Keeping Moscow suspicious of Yerevan is the negative.

    In closing, I would like to say that our Western-led Russophobes pray on our people’s emotions, gullibility and political ignorance.

    Reply

21. Excellent analysis, Avery.

    As usual I always enjoy reading your comments/analysis; precise and on target, Kudos. Unfortunately, we don’t have as many knowledgeable individuals, such as yourself , to join the ranks. Instead, we are stuck with buncha ‘experts’ who know a whole lot about world politics but unfortunately, they are too busy driving taxi cabs or cutting hair. I suspect these individuals, who repeatedly spew anti-russian sentiments, belong to the ‘Y’ generation. ‘Y’ as in:

    1- ‘Y’ the Armenian regime (regime?) is negotiating? ( last I checked Mr. Sarkissyan, won the 2013 election by 59 percent as opposed to, Hovanessians’ 37 percent).

    2- ‘Y’ Russians selling weapons to Azeris?

    3- ‘Y’ I have to go to school?

    4- ‘Y’ Russians are not protecting our borders?

    5- ‘Y’ I have to clean up after mysel?

    Reply

    • Jay,

      This is not about my logic or anybody else’s logic. Instead, this is about Russia fulfilling its obligation to protect Armenia from terrorist attacks by its neighbors (which, in this particular case, happens to be Azerbaijan) but yet, has failed to do so.

      Spend some time reading about the historic Armenian province of Aghvank.

    • My apologies for barging in, Jay, but I believe a retort to absurdity is long overdue.

      A couple of your opponents keep repeating a mantra about Russia failing to fulfill its obligation to protect Armenia from terrorist attacks by its neighbors, or variations thereof. Just out of interest, in what bilateral or multilateral treaty has Russia bound herself to protect Armenia from “terrorist attacks by its neighbors”? If your all-knowing opponents are aware of an article that contains such wording in the Russian-Armenian Defense Agreement or elsewhere, it’d be educational, I believe, for all the laymen commenting here to see the link to the text.

      If such a passage is found in any agreement, we will then discuss how and why Russia fails to fulfill her obligation to protect Armenia from terrorist attacks by its neighbors. Fair deal, I hope?

    • John,

      Russia is obligated by treaty to come to Armenia’s aid ONLY if Armenia is under attack (being subjected to border skirmishes is not interpreted as being under attack) and then ONLY when official Yerevan ASKS for military assistance.

      As I said: Our Western-led Russophobes and the so-called “political opposition” in Armenia (sadly, there no real political opposition in Armenia) prey on our people’s emotions, gullibility and political inexperience. We just saw one of our “political opposition” freaks flee to Azerbaijan after he was revealed to be a mercenary working for Armenia’s enemies.

      Once again: Russia is protecting Armenia’s western border from NATO/ISIS backed Turkey and they are arming us and expecting us to at least act like a nation-state and keep Azerbaijan at bay on our eastern border. Apparently, although they talk about Armenian “strength” and Armenian “independence”, our Russophobes in reality want Russians to spoon feed us. Because we are special.

    • In the department of absurdity, it’s rather absurd that you’re trying to actually suggest that Russia has no obligation to protect Armenia from terrorist attacks by its neighbors. And, when I say “terrorist attacks,” I’m, of course, referring to any military attack launched by any one of Armenia’s neighbors. Any kind of military attack against Armenia is unjustifiable, and would therefore also be the definition of a terrorist attack.

      Were you not aware that the establishment of the Russian-Armenian military alliance from 1997, calls for mutual military support if either side is attacked by a third party. Therefore, if Armenia is attacked by Turkey or any other third party, it would be the obligation of Russia to help protect Armenia. These details I’ve read in articles several years ago (newspapers/journals that one buys at a shop or newspaper stand). A little while ago, I searched online for a copy of the details of that particular treaty, but I didn’t find anything. Anyway, if you have a link to any kind of literature which states that Russia has no obligation to protect Armenia from terrorist attacks (military attacks) by its neighbors, then be sure to put it up on the screen. Fair deal?

    • Here’s an article on the details of the 1997 Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty (Armenia/Russia: Landmark Treaty Includes Provision For Mutual Defense):
      http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1086156.html

      “Russia and Armenia today signed a landmark treaty on friendship, cooperation and mutual assistance.”

      “It would mark the first time in the post-Soviet era that Russia is committing itself by treaty to defend an ally militarily if attacked by a foreign country.”

      “In practical terms, according to the treaty, an attack on Armenia would be considered an attack on Russia, and vice versa.”

      “The treaty calls for Armenia and Russia to closely cooperate in defending the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and security of both countries.”

    • And? What exactly the link to an article published by one of many news agencies demonstrate? That Russia is bound to protect Armenia from “terrorist” attacks by its neighbors? Now conveniently referred to as “military” attacks after absurdity was exposed?

      Blunder 1. The article doesn’t give us “details” of the “1997 Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty”.

      Blunder 2. The Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty is not called as such. It’s called the Russian-Armenian defense agreement.

      Blunder 3. The Russian-Armenian defense agreement was not signed in 1997. It was signed in 1995 and extended in 2010.

    • Well, after going out of my way to furnish you with a link to the important details of that 1997 Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty, you’re again continuing your denialism by absurdly pretending that Russia is not bound to protect Armenia from attacks by its neighbors. Furthermore, you failed to provide any kind of article which states that Russia is not obligated to protect Armenia from attacks by its neighbors.

      And, here’s a correction of your blunders:

      blunder 1- The article I provided, does in fact give details (and the most important details) about the 1997 Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty.

      blunder 2- The Russian-Armenian defense agreement, can also be called the Russian-Armenian military treaty, or the Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty. Once again, according to this treaty, an attack on Armenia would be considered an attack on Russia, and vice versa. Therefore, this is the definition of a military alliance treaty.

      blunder 3- This particular treaty was not signed in 1995; it was signed in 1997. Did you not notice this in the article?

    • Our ‘friend’ ‘from Yerevan’, when you post something, do please, please, conduct a small research into the subject you’re about to write on to avoid making yourself a laughingstock more than you already—and successfully—have done on these pages.

      You were caught on a lie about Russia having an obligation to protect Armenia from ‘terrorist attacks’ by its neighbors. The Russian-Armenian Defense Agreement (and its 2010 Extension Protocol) makes it an obligation for Russia to come to Armenia’s aid if Armenia comes under military attack and only when Armenian authorities ask for military assistance.

      And, please, be corrected… again, on absurdities you’ve laid out in your post:

      The article in RFE/RL is a descriptive article, a journalistic piece that in no way supports your theory about Russia’s obligation to protect Armenia from ‘terrorist attacks’. It gives no detail on or reference to the text of the Russian-Armenian defense agreement to that effect.

      The Russian-Armenian defense agreement cannot also(?!) be called “the Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty”, because a ‘friend from Yerevan’ has decided so. As a matter of fact, it is only informally called by its general name “The Russian-Armenian Defense Agreement”. The de jure title of it is “The Agreement between the Republic of Armenia and the Russian Federation on the Russian military base on the territory of the Republic of Armenia” (Հայաստանի Հանրապետության և Ռուսաստանի Դաշնության միջև Հայաստանի Հանրապետության տարածքում ռուսաստանյան ռազմակայանի մասին).

      The defense agreement was signed on March 16, 1995 and not in 1997. In 1997, a different Russo-Armenian agreement, the Agreement on Friendship, Co-operation, and Mutual Assistance (Բարեկամության, համագործակցության և փոխադարձ օգնության մասին պայմանագիր) was signed.

      Get your facts straight

    • Hey, you haven’t produced anything up to now that goes against my research. Instead, the only thing you’ve been doing on all these pages is persistently denying Russia’s foul treatment of Armenia.

      Contrary to the absurdities laid out in your previous post, the defense agreement established between Russia and Armenia in 1997, is indeed the definition of a military alliance treaty. Again, according to this treaty, an attack on Armenia would be considered an attack on Russia, and vice versa.

      And again, what happened to our deal? I fulfilled my part of the deal by providing an article to back up my claims, as opposed to you, who failed to provide any kind of article which states that Russia is not obligated to protect Armenia from attacks by its neighbors.

    • References to the Russian-Armenian defense agreement are found in the websites of RoA’s National Assembly, FM, and DM. If you care to conduct research in those sites, and not in a Baku bazaar, you’ll get abundant evidence that backs up my information in that: (a) the Russian-Armenian defense agreement is de jure called “The Agreement Between the Republic of Armenia and the Russian Federation on the Russian Military Base on the Territory of the Republic of Armenia” and not “The Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty”; and (b) that the Russian-Armenian defense agreement was signed on March 16, 1995 and not in 1997.

      Come back to us with the results of your research. Let’s see what you were intellectually capable of finding out.

    • You’re actually familiar with the Baku bazaar scene? And what is it like? Is it really true that Russian nationalists are treated like royalty over in Baku?

      In regard to the corruption-infested RoA mafia government’s websites, those are certainly not the kind of places to conduct research. And, on the subject of research, you still haven’t provided me any article which states that Russia is not obligated to help protect Armenia from foreign attacks.

      You again failed to properly read the article that I supplied you with. The Russian-Armenian military alliance treaty was not signed in 1995; what does it say in that article? The answer is 1997.

22. (Random Armenian // September 12, 2015 at 2:06 pm //)

    If you are going to quote from Pres Sargsian’s speech, quote the rest of it.

    [YEREVAN. – President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan thanked Russia for the support that the country has provided to Armenia since independence. Speaking during a media forum in Yerevan, he said military and technical cooperation plays a great role in relations with Russia.…]

    And here is the Armenian version of what he has said:
    http://news.am/arm/news/257686.html
    [Հայաստանը, իր անկախացումից ի վեր, ոչ մի այլ երկրից չի ստացել անգամ 1 տոկոսն այն օգնության, որը ցուցաբերում է Ռուսաստանը] (Since Independence Armenia has not received even 1% of the support/aid that Russia has provided/demonstrated)

    Interesting the English translation did not mention that 1%.
    One also wonders what other important words or sentences were not included in the summary of what Pres said by sloppy reporting/translation.

    As to the concern that is expressed by the President, by FM*, by DM, by PM….
    Press in Armenia, who in addition to looking for headlines, just like here in US, also has an agenda.
    I have documented previously that several .am news outlets are foreign owned. (News.am appears to be neutral).
    Some are owned, funded, or financially supported by Soros, of SorosaMaidan infamy.
    And some are well known anti-Armenian, anti-Russian disinformation and propaganda channels.

    Now: they keep asking that provocative question about the weapons sales. I have posted the rationale behind the standard answers given by RoA authorities several times in various threads, but you guys keep bringing it up hoping something will change.

    Only 3 possible answers:
    1. “No comment”: foreign owned disinformation channels will immediately manufacture false headlines, e.g. “Armenian Pres (FM, DM, ..) refused to answer the question about arms sales.” “This confirms what we have been hearing from our confidential sources: a rift is developing between Armenia and Russia….”
    2. “Yes, we are very happy that Russia is selling weapons to Azerbaijan”. (Really ?)
    3. “We are concerned, but we understand.”

    {“Armenian soldiers on the front lines know they’re being fired on by Russian made weapons”}

    Nope: that’s not what Pres reportedly said.
    Read again what he is reported to have said: you can interpret what he said one way, and I can interpret it another way.
    But if you are going to quote, don’t change what he said to what you want him to have said.

    Let’s see what else have we got.
    [Armenian Ministry: We are aware of Turkish weapon supplies to Azerbaijan]
    http://news.am/eng/news/284867.html
    [Asked about the supply of Russian offensive weapons to Azerbaijan, Movses Hakobyan noted that the position of the Armenian Defense Ministry had been announced, and nothing has changed. However, he noted that Azerbaijan has not used the weapons purchased from Russia during the recent years.]

    “However, he noted that Azerbaijan has not used the weapons purchased from Russia during the recent years”

    You can play amateur military analyst like me, and I can play the game of “what does he mean here, what does he mean there” like you.

    —–
    * [Nalbandian: Armenia not too happy that Russia sells weapons to Azerbaijan]
    http://news.am/eng/news/285619.html

    Reply

23. Once again, our Russian nationalist guests are making another foolish attempt to spray Kremlin propaganda nonsense all over the place. And, as always, it’s an enormous pleasure for me to vigorously debunk them from top to bottom.

    “Several faulty analogies were made by the anti-Russian posters with an agenda to again create mistrust among our peoples (Armenians and Russians) with the ultimate goal of having Russia leave Armenia.” “That agenda is not obvious of course.”

    Well, if you claim that the “anti-Russian” posters have an agenda with the ultimate goal of having Russia leave Armenia, then why are you contradicting yourself by saying that “this agenda is not obvious”?

    “So who do these posters propose will replace Russia as the guarantor of RoA safety from NATO member Turkey invasion?” And my question to you, is which particular poster on here, has made a proposal for the Russian military to leave Armenia and be replaced by someone else? I would love to hear your response to this particular question. Show me which poster has made such a proposal.

    “If Azerbaijan had mostly Israeli and Turkish equipment, then Armenia would know very little about them. Not necessarily! It’s actually not difficult for a country to do research and find out about the military weapons possessed by its enemies. Therefore, even if Azerbaijan’s military arsenal consisted entirely of non-Russian weapons, it would not necessarily be an advantage for the Azeris. Are you so desperate that now you’re going to insist that Russia restricted Azerbaijan from using its Russian weapons against the Armenians? So then, according to your silly logic, what exactly was the reason behind Sultan Aliyev’s purchase of four billion dollars worth of heavy Russian military arms? According to you, was this maybe for the purpose of furnishing his sumptuous palace in Baku with all those expensive toys? Or do you perhaps think that on that particular day, he just felt like wasting four billion dollars of his money?

    “Imagine what Moscow would do today if Armenia was ever threatened again.”

    Well, the Azerbaijanis have been continuously launching terrorist attacks against Armenia, but as usual, Moscow never does anything about it. This is certainly not the definition of protecting Armenia from its predators.

    It’s also rather disgusting how these neurotic Russian nationalists are foolishly attempting to convince the Armenian crowd that their Russia happened to be the reason for the Armenian victory in the Karabagh War. Not even close! As a matter of fact, the Russians (who happened to cause those two Armenian battle defeats in 1992) provided a great deal of military support to the Azeris in that particular war. But yet, those shrewd Armenian soldiers, with their enormous heart, rebounded from those two battle defeats, and ended up crushing the much more heavily armed Azerbaijani military.

    “So, what gives Armenians the idea that Russians have to recognize Karabakh simply because that’s what Armenians want?”

    Well, this has nothing to do with what I and my fellow Armenians want. This has to do with Russia showing that it’s a true ally of Armenia; and by not recognizing Artsakh’s independence (along with numerous other things), Russia is therefore showing that it’s not a true ally of Armenia.

    Reply

24. Avery,
    Remember, your beloved Russia has all the power to stop Axerbaijani aggression in favor of Armenia, but clever Putin does not stop the corrupted oil man ambition. Putin needs dictator Aliyev saved petrodollars so badly, who can sale the entire Armenian High Lands in favor of Turks.

    There is no surprises people like you and Harutic jan, are Putin’s worshipers. Unfortunately this is a one way love and does not help Armenia’s position in volatile South Caucasus!

    Reply

    • GB:

      You asked me to comment about the alleged new Russian radar station, and I was respectful enough to write a detailed response.
      Now it’s your turn to show some respect.

      You don’t like Putin ? OK.
      You don’t like Russia ? Fine.

      Now I am asking you to name one or more countries that can replace Russia as the guarantor against invasion of RoA and NKR by NATO member Turkey.
      If you cannot name even one, then maybe you should consider another career.

      And writing ridiculous sentences like “….people like you and Harutic jan, are Putin’s worshipers.” has zero effect on me.
      I have been called a lot worse in my years of travel in the blogosphere.
      On the other hand, to the uninvolved, neutral 3rd parties who read AW, it shows the desperation and bankruptcy of ideas of the anti-Russian contingent.

    • “You don’t like Russia? Fine.”

      And exactly what does rightfully criticizing Russia for its foul treatment of Armenia have to do with disliking it? Hey, I’ve had the opportunity to travel to Russia in the past, and I absolutely loved it. I met many wonderful people over there. But again, what does liking or not liking Russia have to do with criticizing it for its wrongs?

      Remember this? “Several faulty analogies were made by the anti-Russian posters with an agenda to again create mistrust amongst our peoples (Armenians and Russians) with the ultimate goal of having Russia leave Armenia.”

      And, my question to you was which particular poster on here is advocating for the Russian military to leave Armenia?

25. I think there are a number of unfounded assumptions thrown around in this discussion. Despite the assertions of the pro-Russians, I see no evidence that any Armenian is trying to damage the relations between the Armenian and Russian peoples. I myself occasionally work hard on those relations (which, thanks to the recent ruble devaluation, is not particularly difficult).[1] We are simply pointing out the flaws in the Russian government’s policies and in the unequal relations between the two states. Which is what any responsible Armenian should do.

    Reply

    • Yes. And we are simply pointing out that alongside inevitable flaws in any government’s policies and inevitable unequal relations between a mightier state vis-a-vis a smaller state, Russia at this historical stage remains the only guarantor of RoA and NK’s security. When tomorrow there will miraculously pop up a powerful government, whose policies won’t be marred by flaws and which will treat its smaller partners with utmost equality and fairness, we, as responsible Armenians, will say “Thank you kindly, Russia, for everything you’ve done for us from the mid-1990s onward, but here’s another mightier state that’s not only flawless, but is ready to treat Armenia as superior to her…

    • Care to elaborate on the following statements that you have made here @ArmenianWeekly ?

      1.{““nkr” is not a large territory. As I stated earlier, it’s a pathetic little piece of aborted fetus (geopolitically speaking, of course).”}

      2.{“unlike the thugs in the pathetic state of “Armenia” (oh, and in that terrorist entity called “nkr”.)”}

      3.{“ Most likely, these thugs from “Karabakh” and the “Fund” would end up with broken bones or worse. Which is bound to happen sooner or later. That, or the Azeris will invade and rape these thugs when the people are gone. I personally prefer the first option.”}

26. Russians use Armenia for there own interests just as we use the Russians for defense. but the Russians will sell Armenia out when/if they get a better deal. Just as the French did in Cilicia. As a people and nation I would say Armenians have a stronger bond with the Cypriots and Greeks than the Russians due to common experiences, culture and longer history.
    We should be grateful for the Russian presence. It keeps the balance in the region. But lets also not forget who gave Ararat to the turks in exchange for the port of Batumi in Georgia.

    Reply

27. Once more for the hard of hearing: Russia is obligated by treaty to come to Armenia’s aid militarily ONLY if Armenia is under serious military attack and is in danger of being invaded. Being subjected to border skirmishes is not interpreted as being under attack. Moreover, Russia will militarily intervene on Armenia’s behalf ONLY when official Yerevan ASKS for military assistance. Those who can read Armenian will see DM Seyran Ohanyan more-or-less saying the same thing recently –

    Օհանյան. ՀԱՊԿ–ի արձագանքն անհրաժեշտ է միայն Հայաստանի անվտանգության սպառնալիքի դեպքում: http://sputnik.co.am/armenia/20150919/684954.html

    Once again: Russia is protecting Armenia’s western border from NATO/ISIS backed Turkey and they are arming us and expecting us to at least act like a nation-state and keep Azerbaijan at bay on our eastern border.

    Reply

28. When our ‘friends’ have to resort citing RFE/RL, a notorious anti-Armenian, anti-Christian, Neocon funded and operated disinformation, misinformation, propaganda channel – to proffer their anti-Russian propaganda, we know we have won the battle of ideas.
    Funny that the CIA mouthpiece itself confirms what we have been saying: nothing in the agreement calls for a response in case of some sniping and ‘terrorists’ attacks.

    No mutual assistance agreement between two or more states could possibly have such a clause.
    If states rushed to assist each other in terrorist attacks, they would be in perpetual war.

    Posters who insist that Russia is obligated to assist RoA in some way in those instances where Azerbaijan snipes at RoA are asked to cite the particular clause of the agreement between Russia and Armenia, so we can evaluate it independently.
    For reference, we also kindly ask same to provide the clause in the NATO agreement, which obligates NATO to come to the assistance of NATO member Turkey, which has been shelled the from territory of Syria, by parties unknown, killing Turk civilians, and has been subjected to several large terrorist attacks near the border of Syria, killing dozens of Turkish civilians, which Turks claim were organized by the Syrian government.
    (Turks organized it themselves, but let’s pretend).

    Thank you.
    Thank you very much.

    Reply

29. With all the amateur military analysis going back and forth between everyone here, let add another one :)

    One of things done quite often to military hardware is after-market upgrades to enhance them. For example it was reported in 2013 that Armenian military is having 84 T-72 tanks upgraded for $100M and that it would be done by the end of 2015. The upgrades change the capabilities of the hardware. There is also a joint defense venture with Poland. Don’t have all the details on that.

    Another example is the SU-25 attack planes. Georgian SU-25 were upgraded using modern tech from the Israeli Elbit company. The Georgian planes now have night-vision capabilities. Israel appears to strong in this area and it should not be surprising if they are working on upgrading Azeri hardware such as the export version of the T-90 tanks. How does this change the knowning-the-enemies-weapons situation? Maybe we should get some military tech experts to weigh in on the points being thrown around here. If hardware can be upgraded to give it advanced tech and thus an edge in the battlefield, and one does not have access to them, what happens? How much do you know about the enemy’s weapons now?

    I’m guessing that the SU-25s Armenia bought from Slovakia 10 years ago do not have the advanced tech. Honestly I don’t know how much if any upgrades the planes have received. I know some of them have flown to the edge of the line-of-contact during skirmishes as a show of force.

    The thing I would like to see is the development of Armenian companies doing similar work and producing the tech needed to upgrade Armenian military hardware. It would be good for Armenia except it would take longer than simply paying Polish or Russian companies to do the upgrades.

    For the most part, Armenian military tends to announce new weaponry after it has acquired them. The announcement of the S-300 systems was announced after they were in the hands of the military. And there have been Russo-Armenian military agreements signed. There could be stuff in the works we don’t know about. Which I’m guessing is likely.

    Another thought. With all that Russian hardware in Azerbaijan, I would think that Israel would be interested in having access to them, given Russian hardware also being in Syria. Access to the hardware would let them design against them, which in turn could be shared with the Azeris.

    Reply

30. Avery,
    You know and I know if Iran wasn’t Armenia’s neighbor, Putin would have sold our beloved Armenia to Turkics long time ago! Russia will never threat Iran’s national security in favor of Axerbaijan, otherwise the entire North Caucasus region would have been Putin’s nightmare! There is no surprise, why the chess game created by “Persian, Iranian” people!

    Reply

    • GB:

      You don’t know that and neither does anybody else.

      We can play “if Iran, if Russia, if China,…” till the cows come home.
      What other games would you like to play.
      There is no IF in geopolitics.
      There is only IS: you live with it cope best you can, or you die.
      It is what it is, as the saying goes.

      And the fact that you are avoiding a simple question I posed by escaping into fantasyland tells every reader of ArmenianWeekly that you have nothing. Your post proves that the anti-Russian contingent has run out of arguments and is simply desperately, flailing

      concede your side lost the battle of arguments.
      Stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.
      It is embarrassing.

    • Addendum.

      GB:

      Your post finally brought forth what I long suspected was the core issue with your anti-Russian sentiment.
      You are Iranian-Armenian.
      There is the source of your anti-Putin, anti-Russian bias.

      I was born in Yerevan.
      My parents are from Lebanon and Syria.
      In California, we have many Iranian-Armenian friends, neighbors, and relatives.
      I always thought that Lebanese-Syrian Armenians kept our Armenian traditions better than most.

      I was wrong.
      After having interacted with our Iranian-Armenian kin, I know they stand above the rest of us.
      Iranian-Armenians are without a doubt #1: they have kept our Armenian traditions in the Diaspora better than anyone I know.

      All of us Armenians, in Diaspora and Armenia, owe a dept of gratitude to our Iranian-Armenian brothers and sisters, for maintaining and passing on to the next generations our precious, unique traditions.

      However, all of us Armenians must make a choice today: Armenian or something else.
      There is a fine gradation in our language which captures that choice that I don’t think exists in any other language.
      -մոլ vs – մետ
      Ռուսամոլ vs Ռուսամետ
      Ֆրանսամոլ vs Ֆրանսամետ
      Ամերիկամոլ vs Ամերիկամետ
      Պարսկամոլ vs Պարսկամետ

      Until our Homelands of RoA and NKR are out of the real danger of being wiped out by Turkic invaders and their Western anti-Christian, anti-Armenian, anti-Russian, anti-Persian Neocon allies, we can only be one thing, and one thing only: Հայամոլ.

      Հայամոլ, Հայամոլ, Հայամոլ.

    • “After having interacted with our Iranian-Armenian kin, I know they stand above the rest of us.”

      That is indeed a very foolish statement. Iranian-Armenians stand above Lebanese-Armenians, Syrian-Armenians, Russian-Armenians, Hayastantsis, or Artsakhtsis, based on what? Sure, there are many Iranian-Armenians who’ve done a very good job of keeping their Armenian traditions, but there are also many who haven’t done such a good job. It’s pretty much the same thing with the Lebanese-Armenian and Syrian-Armenian groups as well.

      So anyway, what exactly is your objective in attempting to elevate one Armenian group over the others? All of the various Armenian groups (hayastantsi, artsakhtsi, libananahay, parskahay, siriahay, rusahay, fransiahay, amerikahay, and all the other Armenian tribes) are all equally Armenian.

    • poster ‘Avery’ was referring to Iranian-Armenians as No. 1 in that they have kept Armenian traditions in the Diaspora better than anyone he knows, and not that Iranian-Armenians “stand above Lebanese-Armenians, Syrian-Armenians, Russian-Armenians, Hayastantsis, or Artsakhtsis”, and all that. Noted also is this pearl: “[…] and all the other Armenian tribes”. Tribes? How many authentic Armenians do we know who’d use the word ‘tribe’ when describing groups of Diaspora Armenians? Our ‘friend’ must have confused sedentary, autochthonous Armenians with nomadic tribes of Seljuk Turks who popped up in the region only in the 11th century settling by force in the lands of others, consequently forming modern-day Turkey and Azeristan, the pathetic remnants of Central Asian Turkic tribes.

    • You obviously didn’t read the part where Avery states, “After having interacted with our Iranian-Armenian kin, I know they stand above the rest of us.” In that particular sentence, he/she was certainly not referring to only diaspora Armenians, but instead to all Armenians (both in the homeland and diaspora).

      In regard to his/her statement that “Iranian-Armenians are without a doubt #1: they have kept our Armenian traditions in the Diaspora better than anyone I know,” that’s also a very foolish statement. Iranian-Armenians are higher than the other Armenian diaspora groups (Lebanese-Armenians, Syrian-Armenians, Russian-Armenians, and others) based on what? And exactly how are the Iranian-Armenians doing a better job of keeping their Armenian traditions as compared to the other Armenian diaspora groups?

      Since you’re not familiar with the definition of the word, “tribe,” one of its definitions is “a group of people that includes many families and relatives who have the same language, customs, and beliefs.” Another definition would be “a group of persons having a common character, occupation, or interest.” It was these two particular definitions of the word, “tribe,” that I was referring to when I said “Armenian tribes.” Anyway, if you’re capable, make sure to check out these two definitions of the word, “tribe,” over on the Merriam-Webster online dictionary.

      In regard to authentic Armenians, how many do we know who have never uttered a word of criticism against Russia for its sale of four billion dollars worth of heavy arms to Armenia’s mortal enemy (Azerbaijan), nor uttered a word of criticism against Russia for never once condemning Sultan Aliyev for his terrorist attacks against Armenia and Artsakh, nor uttered a word of criticism against the OSCE Minsk Group’s Russian representative for never opposing James Warlick’s anti-Armenian statements?

31. For two hundred years Russia has jealously protected Armenia from all regional predators because Armenia is a fortress against Islam, Turks and Iranians. As long as the region in question has Muslims, Turks and Iranians, Armenia will continue to be looked at as a geostrategic asset in the eyes of Russian officials. In fact, even non-Russian Bolsheviks were smart enough to understand the geostrategic significance of Armenia. In the big picture, Russia and the Soviet Union is the fundamental reason why we have an Armenia today. Therefore, those who fearmonger by saying Russia will someday “sell” Armenia to Turks are either hopeless and have no understanding of politics or Western activists hellbent on driving a wedge between Armenia and Russia.

    Reply

    • {“ because Armenia is a fortress against Islam, Turks and Iranians”}

      Right:

      Without (Christian) Armenia, (Christian) Russia’s Southern underbelly will be fully exposed to an Islamic, Turkic belt that stretches from Bosphorus to Uyguristan. A belt that will slowly but relentlessly creep farther and farther North into Russia’s heartland.
      There was a reason Russia, on her knees at the time in 1993, threatened NATO member Turkey with (nuclear) WW3 if they stepped one foot across RoA border.

32. Anti-Armenian, anti-Artsakh pronouncements by official representatives of one of the 3 co-chairs of OSCE, United States of America: (Note: OSCE chairs are expected to be neutral)

    [1] May 2014: US Co-Chairman of the OSCE Minsk Group James Warlick, in a speech at Carnegie, claims that the seven so-called “occupied” territories must be “returned” to Azerbaijan. (…are the victims of theft in US expected to return the recovered goods the thief who stole to the thief? or “new rules” (channeling Bill Maher) for Armenians only)

    [2] Feb 2015: US Assistant Sect of State Victoria Nuland _urges_ NKR authorities to release the two Turkbaijani terrorist murderers on “humanitarian” (sic) grounds. As a reminder the invaders are in jail for life for abducting, torturing and murdering a 17 year old Armenian youth, and murdering an Armenian officer. A civilian woman shot and gravely wounded by the terrorists was saved by rapid medical response.
    In June 2014, 3 Israeli youths on a hiking trip were abducted and murdered by Hamas terrorists. Two of the 3 kidnapping suspects were killed by Israeli forces searching for them. The 3rd got three consecutive life sentences.
    Any day now Ms. Nuland will urge Israeli authorities to release the Hamas terrorist on humanitarian grounds.
    As soon as pigs sprout wings and start flying.

    [3] July 2015: the US Co-Chairman of the OSCE Minsk Group James Warlick says, again, the “occupied” territories of Azerbaijan must be returned to Azeri control as part of a comprehensive settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.

    [4] Sept 2015: In his continuing anti-Armenian campaign Warlick covers up for the Dictator by emitting a disinformation tweet about the 120 mm mortars Azerbaijanis lobbed into NKR, expressly failing to identify the guilty party, and cleverly creating the false impression that both parties might be to responsible.

    [5] Sept 2015: Evelyn Farkas, a deputy assistant secretary at the US Department of Defense, proposes a possible plan to deploy peacekeepers in Nagorno-Karabakh to be discussed transparently with all the sides involved in the OSCE Minsk Group mission.
    Translation: US OilyCons are desperate to save their dictator of Baku Khanate by injecting foreign (NATO member) troops into the LOC who will not only interfere with NKR military’s mission, but will spy on their capabilities and pass it on to the Dictator.

    [6] Sept 2015: (Asbarez) “The United States recognizes the importance of the role of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh in determining their own future,” U.S. Department of State spokesperson John Kirby said at a daily press briefing in Washington DC on Thursday.“In the context of a comprehensive settlement of the conflict, we recognize the role of the population in Nagorno-Karabakh in deciding their future. However, the United States does not recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as an independent sovereign state, and we will not accept the results of the so-called elections on the 13th of September as affecting the legal status of the region,” he continued.
    “So-called” elections ?
    Maybe I missed it, but did either Russia or France go out of their way to interfere in the internal affairs of NKR by supporting the illegal claims of the Dictator ?
    And who recognized the “so-called” Declaration of Independence of these United States ?
    Did the signers of the Declaration seek permission or approval of any other human being ?

    Hardly:
    [When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–…..]

    That these truths are self-evident… endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

    EPILOGUE

    Very interesting that posters who see no need to condemn anti-Armenian statements by US officials, because, you know “The Minsk is not going to read it and neither are the Azeris “, somehow find the time to write numerous comments criticizing Russia.
    Who knows, maybe Russian officials _are_ reading anti-Russian comments written by random posters @AW.

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    • “[…] The United States will not accept the results of the so-called elections [in Nagorno-Karabakh] on the 13th of September”.

      Yes. But the United States will rush to accept the results of the so-called declaration of independence in Kosovo in 2008.

      And, of course, the United States’ own so-called declaration of independence is out of the question. When the Thirteen Colonies used the universal right of self-determination and proclaimed independence from Great Britain in 1776, it was acceptable. But when the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh used the same right and proclaimed independence from Azerbaijan, it is unacceptable.

      So much for cheap double standards and American hypocrisy…

33. One of our Russian nationalist “friends” claims that RFE/RL is an anti-Armenian, anti-Christian news site? Well, why doesn’t he/she show me the anti-Armenian, anti-Christian statements that were made in that one particular article that I put up on the screen. Actually, I must say that many of the articles I’ve previously read from some of the Russian news sources, were actually more anti-Armenian, as well as more anti-Christian as compared to many of the articles I’ve read from Western news sources.

    It’s also rather interesting that after putting up that one particular article, our Russian nationalist “friends” are attempting to minimize Azerbaijan’s terrorist attacks against Armenia by referring to these attacks as nothing more than border skirmishes or sniper shootings. Not even close! Once again, as you can see in the AW article above, the Azerbaijanis launched long-range attacks on twenty of Armenia’s border villages. This was indeed a huge attack upon Armenia; but yet, the Russians who are obligated to help protect Armenia in the event of a foreign attack, are doing absolutely nothing against Azerbaijan. As a matter of fact, without firing a single gunshot, the Russians could easily solve this problem by delivering a warning to Sultan Aliyev that there will be Russian military retaliation for every single terrorist attack against Armenia. I certainly don’t think that Sultan Aliyev would have the courage to go against Russian military retaliation. But yet, the Russians will never pursue such an action; and, it’s obvious why. By pursuing such an action, the Russians would therefore enable Armenia to have an advantage over Azerbaijan; and this is certainly what Russia doesn’t want. It wants neither side to have an advantage over the other, which explains the reason why Russia pretends to be an “ally” of both sides.

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34. Good catch [John].

    Our allegedly Yerevantsi friend finally slipped up.
    No Armenian would refer to our Diasporan communities as, quote, “tribes”.
    The notion of a “tribe” in this context (our region) is uniquely nomadic Turkic.
    Persians are indigenous, sedentary.
    Armenian are.
    Lezgins are.
    Talysh are.
    Tats, Avars, etc, etc, etc.

    The only tribes in our parts are nomadic Turkic _tribes_.
    Worldwide Armenian diaspora communities, whose ancestors are as far removed from being tribes as the city of Ani was removed from a nomad Yurt, ended up where they ended up as a result of predations at the hands of savage, nomadic Turkic _tribes_.

    It has been my experience that if one interacts with pretenders long enough, they slip up sooner or later.
    One has to be patient: good things come to those who wait.

    It is like those spy stories: an agent is prepared extensively to blend in with the local population.
    Every little detail is thought of and memorized.
    Or so they think.

    But they always get tripped up by some minor, innocuous detail.
    If you have not lived and grew up in the locale, it is impossible to keep track of all the little details that are automatically stored in one’s memory as part of living and growing up there.

    Reply

35. “It has been my experience that if one interacts with pretenders long enough, they slip up sooner or later.” “It is like those spy stories: an agent is prepared extensively to blend in with the local population.”

    Yes, this is so very true. In fact, this is exactly what happened to the tribe of Kremlin agents on here, who were desperately pretending to be patriotic Armenians. However, I got in their way, and caught every single one of them. Hey, even you got caught! Born in Yerevan? Yeah right!

    “No Armenian would refer to Diasporan communities as tribes.” And who are you to decide what an Armenian can say or not say? You represent nothing in the Armenian diaspora. Even in Glendale, you represent nothing. Anyway, I’m certainly not the first Armenian to say “Armenian tribes” when referring to the various Armenian groups of the diaspora. I’ve heard this particular reference being used by many other Armenians as well. As a matter of fact, I vividly remember that one particular time when the priest of my Armenian Apostolic Church used this particular term, “Armenian tribes,” in a sentence while delivering a lecture to a big crowd of young Armenians; and then, we all erupted into laughter. Yes, we were all laughing because the word “tribe” is most often used in reference to the Native American Indian tribes of the past and present United States, as well as the Black tribes of Africa. However, the word “tribe” can also be used to refer to any group of people who share the same language, customs, and beliefs (What does all of this have to do with Turkic nomads?). Therefore, based on this definition, there would be nothing incorrect in saying “the Iranian-Armenian tribe” or “the Lebanese-Armenian tribe” or the “Syrian-Armenian tribe,” etc. Hey, there would be nothing incorrect either in referring to the crew of Russian nationalists as “the Russian nationalist tribe.

    Reply