Bojidar Dimitrov, Bulgaria’s Minister in charge of the Agency for Bulgarians Abroad, stirred a hornet’s nest at the start of the new year by threatening to block Turkey’s accession to the European Union (EU), unless it paid billions of dollars in compensation for Bulgarians who were forcefully displaced during the Ottoman era.
Dimitrov said Turkey owed Bulgaria $20 billion for expelling hundreds of thousands of ethnic Bulgarians in 1913. The Republic of Turkey, which was founded in 1923, had assumed the obligations of the Ottoman Empire and agreed to make reparations in a 1925 treaty. However, thus far, Bulgaria has received no compensation from the Turkish government.
“Turkey is surely able to pay this sum, after all, it’s the 16th largest economic power in the world,” Dimitrov said, capitalizing on a statement that Turkish officials often make, bragging about their country’s economic strength!
Dimitrov disclosed that the payment of compensation as required by the 1925 treaty is one of Bulgaria’s three pre-conditions in order not to veto Turkey’s admission to the EU. The other two pre-conditions involve energy and water management issues.
Veselin Ninov, a Bulgarian government spokesman, confirmed to the EUobserver on January 4, that Dimitrov’s announcement represented official state policy. He revealed that the dispute was being handled by a “Bulgarian-Turkish intergovernmental working group” and that Prime Minister Boyko Borissov would raise the compensation issue during his upcoming visit to Turkey.
Turkish officials reacted quickly and harshly! Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, repeating the same baseless accusations that Turkish leaders often make regarding the Armenian Genocide, alleged that the Turks suffered as much as the Bulgarians during that period. According to Zaman newspaper, Davutoglu warned that Bulgaria’s demands for compensation might harm bilateral relations, although, he confirmed that the two countries have been discussing “issues relevant to the mass transfers of Turks and Bulgarians during the last days of the Ottoman Empire.”
Bulgarian officials immediately backed down realizing that an open confrontation with Turkey on this issue may not be as beneficial to them as quiet, behind closed doors negotiations. Bulgaria’s Deputy Foreign Minister Marin Raykov sought to downplay Dimitrov’s demands by stating that his country did not make Turkey’s EU bid conditional on the resolution of the compensation issue for displaced persons. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Borissov rebuked Dimitrov, threatening to fire him should he make a similar statement in the future without first consulting him.
Minister Dimitrov quickly apologized in order to retain his job. Press official Veselin Ninov, however, was not as fortunate. He was fired for endorsing Dimitrov’s earlier statement.
For the time being, Bulgaria’s leaders may find it premature to openly link their demands for compensation from Turkey to its bid for EU membership, even though many Bulgarians have persistently demanded such reparations for decades. Consequently, this issue is bound to remain on the agenda of the two countries, undermining Turkey’s oft-stated claim that it has zero-problems or disputes with its neighbors.
Despite Prime Minister Borissov’s disclaimer, Bulgaria has now added yet another wrinkle to Turkey’s bid for EU membership which is becoming increasingly elusive. Already several European countries such as France, Germany, Holland, and Austria strongly oppose Turkey’s EU membership bid. Greece and Cyprus would not allow Turkey to join the EU, unless its troops withdraw from Northern Cyprus. Furthermore, it would be impossible for Turkey to join the EU without fulfilling one of its key requirements — open borders with all neighboring states. Turkey, thus, cannot become an EU member, unless it opens its border with Armenia, independently of the fate of the Armenia-Turkey Protocols.
Beyond the obstacles in joining the EU, Turkey is swamped with a large number of lawsuits filed against it in the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). Should it refuse to compensate Bulgaria for the 1913 refugees, it is likely to face more legal troubles.
However, Turkey’s record on winning lawsuits in the ECHR is not very good. It has already lost several major court cases for its occupation of Northern Cyprus. Also, Greek and Armenian minority foundations in Turkey have successfully recovered through the ECHR some of their real estate assets that were confiscated decades ago.
Encouraged by these successful lawsuits, Armenians living in Turkey and throughout Europe should seek legal redress through the ECHR for their countless losses suffered during the Genocide. Claims could be filed for the loss of personal property, bank accounts, real estate, monuments and churches.
No peace without justice!
No reconciliation without restitution!
Harut Sassounian
Harut is spot on.
Armenians living in Turkey and Europe can seek redress from ECHR. Where can Armenians living in North America seek redress for their countless losses suffered during the Genocide?
When will claims be filled on behalf of the RA for the loss of property, real estate, monuments and churches? What are we waiting for in filing our land claim for Wilsonian Armenia? To what body can such a claim be filed with? What have our team of reparation lawyers been waiting for all this time?????
Hey Harut:
DREAM ON!!! How much will you dashnak Armenians compensate all of the surviving families of those that the dashnaks committed mass genocide upon (2.5M Moslems and non-Moslems [including the families of non-dashnak Armenians who were slaughtered by Dro and his band of merry men dashnaks, simply because the non-dashnaks refused to murder innocent Turks and Kurds])? And that’s just during the WWI era! We haven’t even counted the genocide of 1992 in Azerbaijan (e.g. Kohajaly), nor the families of the victims of dashnak Armenian global terrorism during the 70’s and 80’s!
It’s all a moot point anyway. Now that the Armenian court in Yerevan has ruled that the protocols are constitutional, the historical commission will begin. Then the world will see the truth, especially after both dashnak archives in Yerevan and Boston are forced open via protocol directives (assuming of course that dashnaks didn’t move everything to another secret location). Then we’ll see who will be paying reperations to whom!
Hey Krikor…cry me a river why don’t you!!
Get out of this place you denialist robert. You denialist turk, we don’t need your kind in here to come and say total LIES about Tashangtsoutyun. You lier!!!!! Your thousands of turks that were killed during WWI has nothing to do with our men. Complain to your governments who didn’t provide your men of arms with food and clothing. Our people were being killed by your Abdul Hamid II en masse 300,000 of them, then the Armenian G E N O C I D E thanks to your Talaat, Jemal and Enver. Your turkish government annihilated more than 2(two) million Armenians in a most atrocious way and right in our anscestral lands. You land stealers and liers. ENOUGH ALREADY.
I don’t understand why Armenian Weekly pays homage to this little kemal(robert) islamist terrorist.
Will someone at Armenian Weekly kindly respond to my request?
These Turks take advantage of Armenian hospitality and spew garbage. The unashamedly use Kurds to distance us from the Armenians. Hey little murderer kemal, irrespective of what you write, we Kurds don’t trust you, period. We are not the Kurds of 1900-1920s, gone are the days when you used us to do your dirty work. little kemal, welcome to my hometown of Diyarbekir, and we’ll stamp the word Genocide on your forhead and your…you know where. You have no honor or shame.
Your muerderous hordes killed 20,000 innocent Armenian women and children in Artsakh…and the victims of Khojali, were non other than Armenian women and children whom you killed and photographed to advance you lowly propaganda purposes. It all is exposed, the truth of your murdering the minority Armenians living in Khojali is all out my friend. There were 300 Armenians in Khojali and all disappeared and then reappeared as dead corpses, butchered by Turkish butchers.
Sorry little kemal, your lies did not do you any good.
No one is talking about the Armenians who lived and then were murdered in turkish populated city of Khojali, and then were shamelessly photographed as dead turks. One day, they all disappeared. And now the turks accuse the Armenians for killing innocent Armenians of Khojali?
Typical Turkish Genocidal lies. The Armenians victims of Khojali are crying for justice.
Turks killed all the Armenians living in Khojali, and no one is talking on their behalf.
Give me a break..
The more time xenophobes like “robert” spend in front of the computer parroting baseless turkish propaganda on the Armenian Weekly the less time these turkish chauvinists have to plot assassinations of righteous turkish citizens that speak the truth about the Armenian Genocide.
The writing of these turkish fanatics on this website has proved quite useful as evidence for politicians in my riding association of the extreme hatred, misinformation and bigotry that is still spewed by turkish extremists that seek to intimidate and silence Armenians into submission. The shameless cold blooded assassination of Hrant Dink is a testament to this fact.
Keep up the great work Harut. We all appreciate your columns.
I think the main point of the article is missed:
“Bulgarian officials immediately backed down realizing that an open confrontation with Turkey on this issue may not be as beneficial to them as quiet, behind closed doors negotiations. Bulgaria’s Deputy Foreign Minister Marin Raykov sought to downplay Dimitrov’s demands by stating that his country did not make Turkey’s EU bid conditional on the resolution of the compensation issue for displaced persons. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Borissov rebuked Dimitrov, threatening to fire him should he make a similar statement in the future without first consulting him.
Minister Dimitrov quickly apologized in order to retain his job. Press official Veselin Ninov, however, was not as fortunate. He was fired for endorsing Dimitrov’s earlier statement.”
They had to lick it all back. Someone reminded them that during Russian, Balkan and WWI wars, and then again in 80s, millions of Turks and Pomaks have been ethncially cleansed from Bulgaria, and they would end up on the wrong side of the math in the end!
I really hope the reperations issue is raised seriously, so I can make claims for all the ancestoral lands, bussinesses and lives lost in Bitlis to Armenian hords. Then I would knock on Greece’s door for the other half of the family.
Of course, since Armenians are bent on assigning responsibility for 100 year old Ottoman war time policies to the Turkish republic, then I guess Turkey would also seek dameges from the Armenians. After all the map of Middle East would have looked a little different today if it were not the Armenian fifth column. How does one put a value on this?
Here is the fun part, since Ottoman government had allocated equivalent lands to the relocated Armenians in then other Ottoman vilayets of Lebanon and Syria, they would have to get involved in this argument too at some point! All this could be so interesting and fun!
It seems ‘murat’ missed the main point of the article and is keen on portraying revisionist history. Its a pathetic attempt really but hey like Paul mentioned above its better that people like him invest more time in front of their computers preoccupied with the Armenian Weekly rather than time spent plotting to murder truth tellers of the Armenian genocide from their turkish fatwa list.
The only “argument” propagandists like ‘robert’ and the Turkish state need to deliberate over is how Turkey, the successor state of the ottoman empire who inherited its assets AND liabilities, will compensate the various different ethnic groups including the Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians for the premeditated genocide their radical group of ottoman terrorists lead during the crumble of their supposed empire.
The main point of the article is as the writer made clear from its title: Armenians and Bulgarians are entitled to demand long overdue compensation from an unrepentant Turkey. I think what many Armenians and moderate and open minded Turks would really find even more “interesting and fun” is if Turkey would actually play a more honest and constructive role in promoting Turkish-Armenian reconciliation based on truth and justice by returning our illegally occupied lands and compensating Armenians for their losses without dithering in lies and lobbyists . Now this would be “fun”, constructive and actually meaningful.
Perhaps it is time for Armenia to demand that the Bank of England release the confiscated Ottoman Armenian gold that it has been holding since it was placed there by the Turkish govt towards the end of WWI, which was valued at roughly 5 million British pounds at that time. Now, before anyone insists that this is a fiction, let me tell you that iron-clad, verifiable documentation exists on this and these funds should be restored to the Armenian people, via Armenia, as soon as possible.
Hye, Robert the turk, is the prime example of the what the Turkish leaders have done, even to their own Turkish citizens. As these leaders have pursued a policy of denials of the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation, so too, these dishonest turkish leaders have lied and mistreated their own turkish citizenry.
First lie Robert, the Armenians were unarmed, and made to march todeserts until they died of hunger, thirst, terrorism – slaughtered, raped, kidnapped and more an unarmed Christian citizens of Turkey. Your turkey suffered loses in WWI – your leaders use these
loses to Armenians – blaming the victims of a Genocide for everything your leaders failed.
Second lie Robert, you will not like this but it is the truth. Your own turkish leaderships, all these
years have educated you, and all your turkish citizens in turkey dishonestly. Robert, your leaders
have lied, ye, even made denials to your own people – your students are educated without learning the truths of their turkish history. Your history books donot tell the truths of the years when the
turkish leaderships, Ottoman and then the current leaderships all these years, hid their vile
actions… Humans inhumanity to humans, in the most debased forms. Of course, they’d try to lie and hide such a history… Sadly, you a re a product, with so many others, of these denials by your leaders
So, even though there are many in turkey who have come to realize the guilt of the Otttoman turks and the subsequent turkish leaderships – others, such as yourself, sadly, have been programmed to
believe the lies of all your leaderships. Genocide, the slaughters, rapes, kidnapping, all happened.
And, sadly, because a turkey was not brought to face justice and even show repentence, we Armenians will seek justice – and reparations all due and owing to a nation all that was ‘stolen’ via the
Genocide. See it was not a war with the Armenians – it was what turkey does best – Genocides.
Further, because a Turkey was not brought to face their absolute guilt – all Genocides
that have occurred since, all the millions of innocents who have been slaughtered – and millions who survive the terrorism of Genocides with their own horrid memories – Genocides still exist..
1890s-2010 for the Armenian peoples, yes the Genocide is not forgotten – as we have a Covenant with those slaughtered, violated, debased, with those who survived and carried this Covenant to their children, their grandchildren and now their great grandchildren – Genocide still continues
into 2010 – until the Turk recognizes their lies – are lies. Manooshag
Hey Nairian,
Wow, the number has just jumped up to over 2 million Armenians “killed”!! It used to be 1.5M. Remember when your own people said the numbers were estimated at 300K post-WWI? Then it slowly grew to 600K a couple of decades later. Then in the 60’s the number jumped up to 1M. Then in the mid-1970’s the number actually hit 2.5M. After realizing that even the most idiotic people weren’t about to buy that garbage, the number dropped down by 1980 to 1.8M. This still didn’t fly, so the dashnaks dropped it down in the mid-1980’s to 1.5M. Now it’s back up to 2M. I guess we counting what?…I know, SPACE ALIENS!!! Let’s face it…You’re just a racist idiot caught up in your own brainwashed AYF hate indoctrinations! When you start playing around with numbers like you do, you’ve just lost all crediblity.
Hey Ferhat,
You’re a Kurd like I’m an Armenian! Nice try though. But you gave yourself away (reread your own posts and see where and how many times). Sad how dashnaks will use any means, anyone, any lie to get what they want. It’s okay though. The whole world knows what dashnaks are and what they’ve done. I believe that Sir Ellis Bartlett said it best when he made his famous address on the floor of the English Parliament in Feb. of 1895…”The Armenians are of all the oriental people, the most adroit, subtle, and the most PRONE TO LYING!”. The world had your number way back then! Oh, one last thing Ferhat…Stay off the drugs! You’re mind has turned to mush. You’re making ludicrous statements, especially about Kohajaly! Get some serious mental health treatment before you completely mess up your mind.
Hey Paul C.,
Xenophobe? Moi? I think not! You want to see a real xenophobe, look into a mirror and the rest of your fellow dashnaks!! As for the fanatics and bigots which you mentioned, have you bothered to read the Manifesto of 1919 by your first Prime Minister/President? If not, I suggest that you do so, post haste. Caution: You may not like what you read! BTW Paul, you speak of assassins. Hmm, can you say Armenian terrorists Paul? You see, what you and the rest of these brainwashed dashnaks are doing is trying to have your cake and eat it too! In reality, you will ultimately come to the sad realization that it is YOU who are the true denialists! be patient. When the historical commission convenes and completes its findings, the whole world will then finally know the truth.
Hey Siamanto,
Compensation? Listen to yourselves for a moment. What are you all really saying? We want…, we demand…, we are intilted to…, we deserve…! Do you know which age group speaks that way? That’s right…little spoiled, bratty children!! When will you compensate the families of the millions that died as a result of your dashnak’s treachorous actions and traitorious betrayals? You tried for land grabs three times in 1919 (twice in Azerbaijan and once in Georgia). Each time you were kicked out and defeated. What did you then do? You went crying to the British and the US Near East Relief, the Christian Missionaries, anyone who you could play the “victim card”! But you made one error, didn’t you! No one helped you when you played the “religion card” (as you’ve been doing for the past 90+ years) then. Why? BECAUSE YOU ATTACKED ANOTHER CHRISTIAN NATION (GEORGIA)!!! Your religion card became invalid at that point. Whoops! Now it’s back to the same old I want…!!
Hey Manooshag<
I thought I recognized you! Didn’t you and I already have this conversation? You remember, when I provided you with all that evidence proving how heavily armed you dashnaks were, where you got your weapons from, the mass genocides you committed (even upon your own non-dashnak Armenian people), the admissions from the dashnaks that were there committing these genocides (e.g. Ohanus Appressian), the diaries from numerous Russian officers, from your first PM’s Manifesto from 1919, etc. Yes, I clearly remember us having a debate, after which you “disappeared” without responding to me (I believe it was when I asked you to provide evidence of the location of even a fraction of the alleged 1.5M Armenian bodies). But now you’re back. Good. Let us continue where we left off, before your “strategic departure”! And this useage of the term “lies” is not becoming from a group that has perfected that very thing into an art (ever since 1895 in the English Parliament). Be real men and take the first step by admitting that dashnaks have indeed committed mass genocides and be done with it! The world isn’t going to think any less of you than they already do now! Turkey doesn’t want, nor does it need any of your money for compensation. Nor do we want any of your land. What we do want is a public apology from Armenia in front of the UN, and then for Armenia to withdraw its troops from NK. That’s it. We already receive and take in over 6K Armenian citizens who are fleeing as a mass exodus from Armenia and coming to Turkey to live and start a new life. Tell me Manooshag, just how many Turks live in Armenia? How many are free to worship there? How many mosques are there (the one and only one in Yerevan is placed on a strict surveillance by Armenia’s “secret police”. They take pictures of anyone going into that sole mosque (no others in the entire nation!))? Remember what I told you before you disapeared on me…Take a good look into your own backyard before you start pointing fingers and accusing others! Even the UN says that there was never an “Armenian genocide” (I even provided you with the documentaions for that as well)!! Welcome back.
You just proved Paul’s point Robert! Now that your done reciting what they’ve taught you at the denialist Foreign Ministry of Propaganda in Ankara take a valium. As Harut correctly stated: No peace without JUSTICE. No reconciliation without restitution.
Mr. Sassounian has made it a point to advocate for policy on behalf of Armenia not based on an accurate assessment of our geopolitical challenges and our limitations.
If the Bulgarians are doing it — it in no way means Armenia should. Bulgarian policy might prove to be a failed attempt (driven more by a government’s need for winning elections than anything else). It might isolate them from the rest of the international community — one that is not ready to advocate the partitioning of the 2nd largest army in NATO. Thus, this might even weaken Bulgaria — which means it will not only be less capable of advocating for its territorial rights in the long term, but its more immediate interests in the short term (i.e. economy, military, diplomatic).
And second, if Bulgaria is doing it (which I still don’t think is what’s going on), it is doing it because it can. It is an EU member, not at war, not suffering from a blockade, economically linked to the rest of the region (and thus can shuffle its weight around). It solved it’s immediate problems, strengthened itself, and now it can afford to pursue grander goals.
Case in point, Armenia is not Bulgaria. And Armenians are not Bulgarians (or Jews).
Hey Robert, read this that is written an Englishman. His name is Philip Marsden when he visited Anatolia, Syria and Lebanon in the 90’s:
“On 24 April 1915 the Turkish authorities arrested Constantinople’s six hundred leading Armenians. They rounded up another five thousand from the city’s Armenian quarters. Few of these people were ever seen again.
In the interior Turkish forces began to deport the Armenians. Leslie Davis had been the American consul in Kharput. He had watched the Armenian groups come and go, and had listened to the rumours. Since it was wartime his movements were severely restricted and he had been unable to confirm what he heard. But one morning before dawn he managed to slip out of the town. he rode on to the plain of Kharput.
And wherever he rode he saw the Armenians. They were casually buried in the roadside ditches, their limbs half eaten by scavenging dogs; he saw the heaps of charred bones where the remains had places they lay so thickly in the dirt that his horse had difficulty avoiding them. As the day wore on, Davis rode further into the hills. He reached the shores of Lake Goeljuk. Here, in the valleys leading down to the lake, the scene was the same: corpses scattered amidst the thornscrub, bunched together in their hundreds – at the foot of cliffs, in gorges, in the hidden folds of land.
Those who weren’t killed at once were gathered into convoys and driven south. These were the marches. Davis had managed to compile an account of just one of these dismal convoys; it had left Kharput on 1 July 1915:
Day 1 – 3,000 armenians leave Kharput. Escort of seventy zaptieh under commandof Faiki Bey.
Day 2 – Faiki Bey levies 400 lira from convoy for its safety. Faiki Bey disappears.
Day 3 – First women and girls taken by Kurds. Open violation by zaptieh.
Day 9 – All horses sent back to Kharput.
Day 13 – 200 lira levied by zaptieh. Zaptieh diappear.
Day 15 – Kurdish ‘guard’ take 150 men and butcher them, then rob convoy. Joined by
another convoy from Siva. Numbers swell to 18,000
Day 25-34 Harassed by villagers. Many women taken.
Day 40 – Eastern Euphrates. Blood-stained clothes on river-bank; 200 bodies in water.
Armenians forced to pay to avoid being thrown in river.
Day 52 – Kurds take everything, including clothes.
Day 52-9 Naked, without food or water. Women bent double from shame. Hundreds die
beneath hot sun. Forced to pay for water. Money hidden in hair, mouth, genitals.
Many throw themselves into the wells. Arab villagers give them pieces of cloth out
of pity.
Day 60 300 remain from 18,000.
Day 64 Men and the sick burned to death.
Day 70 150 arrive in Aleppo.
When I rose after several hours of reading such accounts, I felt dazed and numb. I walked back into the centre of Aleppo, through the high, narrow streets with their 1950s cars and the clattering souks. But I could not erase the images of the massacres. I then decided one place in particular had struck me – a certain cave at Shadaddie. I rearranged my plans: I took Torkom’s map and a letter of introduction and left Aleppo for the desert.
Hey Robert, Here’s a bit more.
By Philip Marsden, it reads;
“At Shadaddie in the Syrian desert. I turned on a torch and sent down the passage. There was no sign at all of what had happened, nothing to show that it had ever been anything but a vast storm-drain for the desert.
But for the zaptieh, it had provided a ready-made solution. As the mountains were emptied of Armenians so the Syrian desert filled up. The order came FROM CONSTANTINOPLE to clean up the area. All sorts of methods were adopted. Shooting was slow. Some were driven into the river. A great many simply perished from disease and hunger and thirst. Shadaddie provided its own natural apparatus. The passage was very long and very roomy.
The guards brought the Armenians here and pushed them in by the thousand; as more fell in so the first ones were forced down the passge. Then the guards dragged scrub to the entrance and set fire to it. That night they kept a watch over the cave, camping on the edge of the hollow. Then they returned to the town. Here was where Armenia had ended.”
Robert, you can call me names like idiot and I would say back to you that you are the stupid idiot who wants to repeat your Genocidal government’s brainwashing doctrines that is so much indebted into you it is pathetic. However I say 2 million Armenians because in the interim from 1895 through 1923 more than 2 million Armenians have perished. Out of 3 million Armenians in the Ottoman empire, only 800 thousand survived. You go figure it out.
Your denialist government is constantly brainwashing you that the Turks were killed too; but not by Armenians. They were killed because your Turkish government went into a war with Russia and against the allies, that is how they were killed in war; plus the then Turkish government did not provide their soldiers with the proper attires, food and shelter. You mention our Fedayis, do you know why our Fedayis were fighting on the mountains of Western Armenia? Because the bashebozookle Turks and Kurds were constantly stealing our most beautiful girls, women and children and were constantly killing Armenians. Our Fedayis were only fighting back against your peoples’ lootings, killings and stealings. They were trying to rescue their people and a little bit; otherwise when the Genocide happened in 1915; not 1.5 or 2 million Armenians would not have been wiped out of their own homeland.
How is it that you have 70 million Turks in Turkey today, yet when Armenians were 4 million in 1915, yet today we are only 9 million throughout the world? If the Fedayis killed your people as your government Lies to your youth in school and to you people, then you wouldn’t have been that many millions, and yet us very few.
If a Genocide did not occur, Armenians throughout the world would have been 44 million by now and not a mere 9 million.
Hey Nairian,
You bring up Marsden. Interesting. Can you say “British Blue Book”? Now, can you say “Marsden and the spread of bogus claims, later found to be false, AND admitted to by Armenians themselves in their diaries (found decades later…see archives)”? Can you say “Christian Missionaries who rarely, if ever, saw first hand accounts of any “genocide”, but relied solely on the words of dashnak Armenians, then proceeded to file their reports”? Or how about…can you say”Morgenthau’s personal assistant and also his secretary, both being dashnak Armenians, provided ‘ol Henry with all of his information (considering that he hardly left Istanbul), which he in turn reported to Wilson”? Can you say “Religious and ethnic bias by the West”? Can you say “Forged documents of Talat Pasha by dashnaks”? Can you say “Doctored photographs by dashnaks using modern day photoshop software (yes, we have the ORIGINALS!)”? Can you say “Dashnaks shamelessly using actual photos of murdered women and children to prove a “genocide” from 1915…the only trouble being that these are the same photos of murdered civillians from WWII, killed by the NAZIS!!!”? Can you say “Dashnaks refusing to have an open public forum debate, with full media coverage, and always running away from a debate”? Oh, I could go on and write volumes, but the historical commission’s findings will do my talking for me! The protocols will be ratified and the action will begin soon enough. Let’s get ready to rumble!!! BTW, I’m not going to call you an idiot because you’ve just proved that you are one!! NEXT!!
Hey Vigen,
Take a good look in the mirror, all of you, and ask yourselves just whom the REAL denialists are here! Practically every “evidence” that dashnaks have submitted have long since been proven to be falsified, forged or fabricated! Everything from “the Talat telegram” to Hitler’s suppossed comment about Armenias (which the War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremburg in 1945 rejected THREE times!!)”! Once again, the historical commission will bring all of this out for the world to see very soon. So far, I’ve seen nothing on any of your posts that hasn’t already been debunked, or soon will be. So…Dream On!! You’re all in for a rude awaking soon, shattering all of the propagandal brainwashing you’ve received from your hate indoctinations at the AYF.
Why is it those turkish vermins like Robert have to re-write history same as their genocidal vermin turkish government for 95 years, and every word they spew it’s about Tashnaks. It looks like the way you are very well programmed by the GENOCIDE DENIAL GOVERNMENT OF YOURS ROBERT. I don’t blame you per se but your backward fascist ultra-nationalistic government who happen to live impossible dreams of pan-turanism, genocide denialism and you people are bashebozooks; therefore your country will crumble in no time at all. Bunch of stealers your turkish fascist killer of a country – namely turkey.
Robert, you are too much… but it is all futile I am afraid – while I admit a little fun though!
One can not fight myths with reality. Period. Do you really think truth and facts and figures matter here at all? This myth is what now defines the national identity of a vast majority of Armenians, like religion and flag, people will die many times before they give up their identity. Be it false, be it a lie, be it a fiction, it really does not matter.
The person above tells a typical story of genocide supposedly and we see that there were no orders for physical extermination, no death or concentration camps, no mass graves or gas chambers and still after providing the very proof that contradicts their myth, he then does the victory dance! So they suffered, so they were robbed and mistreated and KURDS did most of it…. never mind, Kurds are their brothers now! I mean this is for the comic books, really!
Many Ottoman officials faced the courts after WWI and tried for their criminal negligence or crimes against Armenian civilians, some even hanged! Others were assasinated by Armenians, no trials, and they walked free.
How many Dashnaks paid for their crimes against their people? These people, who were SOLELY responsible for the misery and suffering of their people a century ago are STILL ruling and ruining their lives! Go figure!
I fail to see as to how this type of shouting insults and half truths to each other will result in better understanding and reconciliation. This has been going on far too long…I have an uneasy feeling that may be some people are trying to keep the issue alive for their own selfish and not so honorable reasons…Enough already. We should have a quite, serious study and investigation of the events by an independent commission comprised by academicians, politicians, lawyers and historians, carefully selected and appointed by the United Nations and Human Rights Organizations and approved by the interested parties. A “truth commission”, so to speak…This commission should have access to all documents and evidences which are not currently made available to public. We should then adhere to their findings and recommendations and move on to live our lives in peace and harmony. We share a lot and have too much in common as people…
I agree with Henry Dumanian; It is advisable for Armenia to pursue wise policies on solving its economic and social problems and improving people’s living standards. Political settlement with Turkey is in progress. Settlement of the other issues should follow the political and economical rapprochement and with the “truth commission” as I recommended earlier.
Hy Robert the turk,
you are so well programmed by your leaderships
you only know to tell lies (aping your leaderships)
comprised of bullies…
End of ‘conversations.
Manooshag
As a Jew, I know that the Genocide happened.
For me, what ADL says and does means absolutely nothing. All Jews and all Israelis know that the Genocide happened, it is just that Turkey uses us like hell, and we are unfortunately falling for Turkish phony delights.
So, these Turks here pleading their case that “no Genocide has ever happened” have all lost touch with reality.
The Genocide happened in 1915, 1.5 million Armenians were massacred.
I would suggest that Turks come clean, accept the fact, and end their futile attempts to deny the Genocide
And don’t be discouraged when some Turks here post “lies and total nonsense” when talking about the Genocide. Justice is patient, and it can wait.
It is about time that Turkey accept its complicity and turn this chapter of their history.
A jewish friend of Armenians
To the editorial board:
Excuse me, but what happened to my last post? It’s not here. Was it deleted? If so, then why? I never use any profanity/vulgarity. I have an opinion just like everyone else. If I was deleted, then that’s censorship. If that’s the case, then that means that you editorial board members are frightened of the truth and what I have to say! Are you all truly THAT insecure? Sad.
Please post my messages. Thank you.
Dear Avigdor Hakim, thanks for your post. All Armenians undoubtedly know it and went through the Genocide unfortunately. As a matter of fact, there is practically no Armenian family who’s parents, grandparents or great grandparents haven’t gone through it by either having walked the death marches down the Mesopotamian desert to Aleppo, or survived by an allied ship, or was orphaned and were taken away by the American Orphanage or a Kurdish or a Turkish family in Turkey. The one’s that survived the Armenian Genocide, their souls were scarred for life after seeing how their parents, siblings and a relative dead or were forcibly taken away, never to be seen again; but they knew what happened to them and how savagely they were killed. It was a most horrifying experiences for those poor creatures that went through it. You see, my very poor father was one of them. As I said before, there is practically not an Armenian family who didn’t see the Genocide and didn’t go through it. It is very hearthwrenching and very saddening for me, when a young turk comes along on these forums and post it in here believing their Genocide denialist government with his eyes closed, while he is programmed that way by Turkey and denies it, then goes on and on and then he calls me and others some bad names too. BTW; I have always felt bad since I was a child when I first heard that 6 million civilian Jews had the same horryfing fate as the Armenian nation had in 1915 by the hands of the Nazis. I don’t see anyone doubting the fact that the Haulocaust indeed happened. I sure don’t want anyone to doubt that the Armenian Genocide has definitely happened.
I am speechless towards the editors of Armenian Weekly that they let denialist people, such as Robert or others like him to continue to take part on the forums of this paper, and I must add that the editors in here are exceptiaonally open minded to let them post here time and time again. They are extremely open minded indeed. There are other forums that if any denialist turk comes along, they don’t let him/her post on their forums period. But not the editors in here. Any Turk with a denialist attitude and writings that come here, should bow and be thankful to the editors of Armenian Weekly that they let them post it in here.
I’m reading Philip Marsden’s “The Crossing Place” at the moment, a most excellent book. It is my introduction to Armenia and its people. I am sickened by what the Turks did and their unbelievable claim to be innocent. Mr. Marsden does such an excellent job of introducing one to the Armenian culture. But the Armenian story saddens me very much.