YEREVAN—In a recent interview with the Public Television of Armenia, Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan shared his views on the ongoing negotiations with Azerbaijan and the future direction of Armenian foreign policy.
Pashinyan stated that Armenia’s government “does not want to be guided by the logic that Azerbaijan is intentionally pushing the process into a deadlock.” “So, what are we doing? We are consistently using arguments to try to dispel this concern,” Pashinyan said.
During the one-and-a-half hour long interview on November 22, Pashinyan highlighted the importance of not only reaching a peace agreement with Azerbaijan but also establishing a strategic deal that defines how both countries will coexist peacefully in the long term. He proposed that Armenia and Azerbaijan should officially recognize each other’s territorial integrity, with Armenia’s sovereignty defined by the borders of the former Soviet republics. The strategic deal would focus on mutual non-interference and the gradual development of communications and economic ties between the two nations.
The prime minister also addressed the broader challenges facing Armenia. He referred to the Declaration of Independence, stating that it contains a logic that could perpetuate conflict with neighboring Azerbaijan and Turkey. Pashinyan argued that if Armenia’s founding document is based on a framework of conflict, it would be difficult for the country to build a stable, independent state.
Azerbaijan’s government has frequently claimed that the Declaration of Independence, cited in Armenia’s Constitution, includes territorial claims. The Declaration of Independence includes a joint decision to reunify Soviet Armenia and the Mountainous Region of Karabakh.
On the topic of constitutional changes, Pashinyan stated that discussions on removing references to the Declaration of Independence from Armenia’s Constitution should not be conflated with other political issues. He pointed out that the Constitutional Court has already ruled that the Declaration of Independence only holds legal force in its sections explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, and the parts he has referred to are not verbatim in the text.
Pashinyan also acknowledged that terms like “Western Azerbaijan” and “Western Armenia” can be sensitive and provocative. He stressed that, as prime minister, he is obligated to communicate the complex realities and consequences of these issues to the Armenian people, even if it involves addressing uncomfortable topics. “If I do not explain these cause-and-effect relationships, I will be leading Armenia toward the loss of statehood,” Pashinyan stated.
These remarks come in response to recent developments involving the term “Western Azerbaijan,” which has been prominently featured in Azerbaijani media and showcased in exhibitions during the United Nations climate summit COP29 hosted in Baku. Azerbaijani outlets have also circulated materials referring to sovereign Armenian territory as “Western Azerbaijan,” further fueling tensions.
“We get so upset by…the fact that some people in some places use the term ‘Western Azerbaijan.’ But when we say Western Armenia, don’t we think that it irritates some people? Just like they irritate us by saying ‘Western Azerbaijan,’ we irritate others by saying Western Armenia,” Pashinyan said.
Western Armenia refers to the region that was historically part of Armenia, located in the eastern part of Anatolia (modern day Turkey), which includes Sassoun, Van, Bitlis, Erzurum and parts of the Kurdish-majority regions. This region was home to a large ethnic Armenian population before World War I and the Armenian Genocide of 1915, during which much of the Armenian population was either killed, deported or forced to flee.
Western Azerbaijan is an irredentist concept used by Azerbaijan to claim that modern day Armenia was historically part of Azerbaijan. The term targets regions including Yerevan, Lake Sevan and Syunik. Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev has referred to these regions as “historically Azerbaijani lands” and called for their return. This narrative supports Azerbaijan’s broader strategy to promote pan-Turkic territorial unity. Since the 2020 war in Artsakh, Azerbaijan has intensified its claims, particularly in Syunik.
Regarding the ongoing demarcation and delimitation of the Armenia-Azerbaijan border, Pashinyan confirmed that both countries’ state commissions will meet to select new sections for demarcation. He also noted Armenia’s proposal to remove European observers from border areas that have been delimited. “There is objectively no need to have observers on the border which is delimited,” Pashinyan said.
In response to Pashinyan’s interview, an initiative group in the Azerbaijani Milli Majlis rejected his attempt to draw a parallel between “Western Azerbaijan” and Western Armenia. The group stated that the issue of “Western Azerbaijan” pertains to the human rights of Azerbaijanis who were “subjected to ethnic cleansing and their right to return to Armenia peacefully and with dignity.”
The Azerbaijani parliament stated that the term Western Armenia is a territorial claim, reflected in Armenia’s Constitution. They argued that Pashinyan’s remarks questioning the legitimacy of Western Armenia cast doubt on its historical significance and imply a shift from “historical” to “real” Armenia.
In an interview with the Weekly, Artur Khachatryan, a member of the “Armenia” faction in the National Assembly, responded sharply to Pashinyan’s remarks comparing Western Armenia to Western Azerbaijan. Khachatryan expressed his frustration, stating that he “wished he didn’t have to respond to such delirium.”
“I believe that only someone of Turkish nationality would make such comments, attempting to erase the deep, historical roots of Armenianness,” Khachatryan said, rejecting Pashinyan’s comparison. “Armenia, the Armenian character, and our national identity were born and formed in Western Armenia, particularly in Van. This is not something up for debate.”
Khachatryan went on to question whether the same line of questioning would be posed to Aliyev. “If these questions were asked to Aliyev, I’m not sure we would hear anything different. The reality is that Pashinyan is increasingly aligning with Azeri rhetoric,” he added, accusing the prime minister of echoing Azerbaijani narratives.
Notably, the French Ambassador to Armenia also responded to Pashinyan’s comments by sharing an image on X of West Azerbaijan, an Iranian province, referring to it as the “one and only” Western Azerbaijan.
MP of the “Armenia” faction Levon Kocharyan also responded to Pashinyan’s controversial remarks. In a post on his Telegram channel, Kocharyan criticized the prime minister’s comments, particularly his suggestion that using these terms might provoke tensions with neighboring countries.
Kocharyan reminded his followers that 1.5 million Armenians were victims of genocide, with many forcibly displaced from their homes, leaving behind their properties and cultural heritage. Nearly 30 countries have officially recognized this as genocide, condemning the actions of the Ottoman Empire.
Meanwhile, the Armenian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has reiterated that Armenia does not have territorial claims against neighboring states. In a statement to Sputnik Armenia, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Ani Badalyan emphasized that Armenia categorically rejects such claims.
“As stated in our previous official positions, Armenia strongly denies any false narratives that imply territorial ambitions towards a neighboring state,” Badalyan said.
Earlier this year, during his remarks marking the 109th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide, Pashinyan notably refrained from using the term “genocide,” instead emphasizing the term “Medz Yeghern” and the profound trauma it caused the Armenian people. This choice of language sparked attention, as “Medz Yeghern” is a term commonly used within Armenia to describe the Genocide, but its use in place of the internationally recognized term “genocide” is often seen as a more cautious or symbolic approach in diplomatic contexts.
Hoory Minoyan
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Just goes to show that Turks can never be trusted.
Shame on Armenians for letting Pashinyan stay in power!
He should’ve been overthrown long ago.
Armenia needs a leader who’ll face the Turks down.
Where is the modern equivalent of Soghomon Tehlirian?
You can NEVER expect anything good for Armenia from Pash.
Pashinyan joins Zelensky in making comparisons it seems ?
What is wrong with what the Armenian Prime Minister publicly stated? Armenian households have pictures and paintings of Mount Ararat hanging on their walls at home and sometimes also at their workplaces. Mount Ararat is also clearly visible from Yerevan and other parts of Armenia. But technically where is Mount Ararat located today? Technically it is within the borders of Turkey as are other ancient Armenian cities such as Kars, Ardahan, Van and Ani. That is why we refer to that region as historical Armenia. It is a fact that historical Armenia was ten times larger than contemporary Armenia’s borders that are recognised internationally. Historical Armenia stretched over the territories of modern day Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Iran. If we go back to the time of “Tigranes the Great” Armenians can also lay claim to parts of modern day Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Israel.
What should be guiding Armenia’s foreign policy direction? If Armenia is to pursue land claims and pursue the boundaries of historical Armenia then it means one thing – ongoing conflicts with Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia and even Iran. Is it plausible to pursue such a geopolitical strategy? Will Armenia with its 3 million population take on and come out victorious against neighbours with much larger populations and who armed with advanced technology and weapons? Who will back Armenia in such a scenario if it pursues its ambition to claim parts of historical Armenia? Russia demonstrated during the ethnic cleansing of Artsakh that it was more interested in maintaining good relations and influence with the Turkic people rather than aiding its traditional ally Armenia. Is the population of Armenia prepared for ongoing conflict with larger and more powerful neighbours? International borders have and will continue to evolve over time. Should Armenia pursue a strategy that would result in ongoing conflict with its neighbours? Constantinople for example used to be the majestic capital of the Byzantium Empire and a Greek city for more than 1,100 years before it was officially renamed Istanbul in 1930.
Modern nations have all emerged having land claims against each other. If nations pursue their historical boundaries it would culminate in ongoing conflict. Nations possessing adequate military power and global influence have demonstrated they have the means and capability to use military force to initiate changes to internationally recognised borders. But does Armenia fit into that category? The lessons and wounds of the 44-day conflict are still fresh to indicate that pursuing such an expansionist strategy may prove fatal for both the Armenian people and what is left of the Armenian state.
The recognition of Artsakh by Armenia was part of a planned process and Armenia could not, on the one hand, engage in peace negotiations with the enemy mediated by OSCE and, on the other hand, recognize Artsakh as an independent state or part of Armenia because that would have jeopardized the peace process and it would most likely have led to clashes and war with the enemy. The fact that Artsakh Armenians were carrying Armenian passports for travel abroad and were using Armenian currency was a proof that in many ways Artsakh was already integrated into Armenia and it was just a matter of diplomatic and political maneuvering to bring that recognition into fruition. Unlike Armenia, other nations could recognize Artsakh without risking war with our enemy. If “other nations” could carve out a piece of Serbia’s sovereign territory and create a state for the Kosovans with no connection to that land, and based on People’s Right to Self-Determination, why could they not do the same for the Armenians for a region nearly exclusively populated by native Armenians and with deep connection to that land since time immemorial unlike the case with Kosovo and the Kosovans? For many reasons among them the reliance and massive investments in Caspian oil & gas by these two-faced and spineless “other countries” comes to mind!
If the so-called current geopolitical realities in effect can force us to turn our back on seeking justice for our tragic past and throw in the towel, so to speak, what does that say about us as a people? To me it says that we are resigning ourselves to our tragic fate and that the World at large can make decisions for us and treat us as they see fit based on their own self-interests. That is a mentality that must be resisted and rejected.
How can anyone compare the legitimate view of Armenians on Artsakh which has been a crucial part of our ancient homeland and in many ways has acted as a defensive shield against enemy aggression and designs on our homeland while enemy’s fabricated history is purely based on anti-Armenian pan-Turkic fascist ideology that not so long ago led to the premeditated and state-sponsored terrorism, mass extermination and genocide of our nation resulting in the seizure and the loss of about 90% of our historic homeland’s total landmass, Western Armenia, to terrorist Turkish tribes from Central Asia?
Armenians are hanging pictures of the sacred and Biblical Mount Ararat because Ararat is the epicenter of the Armenian homeland and it is the national symbol of the Armenian nation. It is a reminder to every patriotic Armenian that our homeland is still under the occupation of genocidal Turkey. Turning our back on that is turning our back on our past and on our identity. Ararat literally means The Land of the Armenians as referenced in the Holy Books and when our enemies throw at our faces the current bitter reality that Ararat is in Turkey they are, in essence, acknowledging that Armenia is in Turkey. If an Armenian were to say what the Turks claim on this their expression is nothing less than an act of treason.
Simplistic analysis. Armenians have left their homeland in droves since Armenia gained independence in 1991. The population of Armenia has declined to less than 3 million while all the neighbouring nations accept for Georgia have increased. Armenia is in no position to make claims to historic Armenia when it has been abandoned by its traditional ally Russia. Only a fool would advocate perpetual conflict with much larger and powerful neighbours. If Turkey wanted to destroy Armenia strategically it would hand over the lands of historic Armenia back to Armenia including the 15 million Kurds who reside on those lands. Overnight Armenia go from having 3 million people to 18 people with Armenians comprising just 17 percent of the population. For Turkey that would also solve the Kurdish issue once and for all at the expense of Armenia and Armenians. Maybe given the geopolitical and demographic situation we should be content by having pictures of Mount Ararat hanging on our walls rather than making unrealistic and unsustainable land claims against all our neighbours.
What land “claims against all our neighbors” are you talking about, comrade? There is no such thing.
The diplomatic and political manoeuvring hadn’t achieved anything meaningful in the meantime Azerbaijan developed it’s military considerably and Arktash was caught out in 2020. As for Kosovo it’s all about who one’s friends are, for various murky reasons the USA chose to champion the Albanians secession and it’s NATO jackals assisted. Arktash never had anything like that support and the issues with Turkey and Azerbaijan led to too many Armenians being too generous in sentiment with Russia in this regard. As international non entities abhkasia , south ossetia and transdinestra recognised Arktash but not Armenia the word farce comes to mind
@ charles: why, what was wrong about Kosovo’s independence? What ‘murky reasons’ are you referring to?
Reader, the USA for murky reasons namely needing to keep NATO justified post cold war.Cleaving off part of a country; Yugoslavia which had not attacked the USA nor engaged in attacks on US nationals had supported Serbs in former parts of Yugoslavia but never struck at other countries. Violation of the UN charter of territory change by force and the Helsinki final act (which condemned the Arktash cause to failure) rules are for everyone not just pick and choose. Securing heroin transit routes a CIA speciality. Whilst Serbia is a sucker to support Azerbaijan on the principle of territorial integrity as it won’t get them Kosovo. Armenia is a fool if it recognises something for another breakaway it would never do for a kindred cause (Arktash) which is now a lost one at least for the foreseeable future.
ARMENIA IS IN NO POSITION TODAY OR IN A MILLION YEARS TO MAKE LAND CLAIMS ON WESTERN ARMENIA, ARTSAKH, OR ANY REGION WHERE ARMENIANS USED TO LIVE. ARMENIA IS WEAK, CORRUPT, POOR, AND UNDERPOPULATED. ARMENIA CAN’T EVEN RUN ITSELF PROPERLY RIGHT NOW, AND IT IS THE SIZE OF MY GRANDSON’S TOENAIL. FOR BEING BRILLIANT SCIENTISTS, CHESS GRANDMASTERS, AND ENTREPRENEURS, ARMENIANS ARE MORONS WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS AND NEGOTIATIONS. ARMENIA KEEPS GETTING PLAYED OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER AGAIN LIKE A PIANO BY NOT JUST THE SUPERPOWERS BUT ALSO ITS DUMMY NEIGHBORS (AZER, GEORGIA, TURKEY, ETC.). HOW THE HELL DID ARMENIA ALLOW INBRED AZERBAIJAN TO OUTWIT, OUT-POWER, AND OUT-SMART ARMENIA?! THE ONLY EXPLANATION CAN BE THAT ARMENIA IS GOVERNED BY ZERO-EXPERIENCE, CORRUPT, IMBECILES. ARMENIA NEEDS MAGA: MAKE ARMENIA GREAT AGAIN. I UNDERSTAND THAT TURKEY, RUSSIA, PAKISTAN, ISRAEL, AND OTHERS HELPED INCOMPETENT AZERBAIJAN DEFEAT ARMENIA DURING THE ARTSAKH WAR, BUT ARMENIA ALSO HAD 30+ YEARS AFTER INDEPENDENCE TO GET IT’S CRAP TOGETHER AND MISERABLY FAILED. 30+ YEARS OF CORRUPTION INSTEAD OF NATION BUILDING, MILITARY STRENGTHENING, POPULATION INCREASING, AND SCIENCE/RESEARCH/NUCLEAR INVESTING–ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT HAPPENED BECAUSE ARMENIANS STOLE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED TO BUILD UP ARMENIA AND MISMANAGED PROJECTS THAT NEEDED TO BE REDONE. IT IS NO WONDER THAT BILLIONAIRE KIRK KIRKORIAN SENT HIS OWN TEAMS OF MANAGERS AND EMPLOYEES TO OVERSEE PROJECTS IN ARMENIA BECAUSE ARMENIANS WERE/ARE CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT AS HELL. BILLIONS AND MAYBE NOW TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS WERE WASTED AND LEFT THE COUNTRY INSTEAD OF BEING POURED INTO IT TO MODERNIZE AND STRENGTHEN IT. THE ENTIRE SITUATION YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW IS PATHETIC, SHAMEFUL, AND HOPELESS.
The comparison drawn by Prime Minister Pashinyan between Azerbaijan’s references to “Western Azerbaijan” (present-day Armenia) and Armenian references to “Western Armenia” (present-day Turkey) is problematic for several reasons:
1. Historical and Political Context: The idea of “Western Armenia” is rooted in the collective memory of Armenians who survived the genocide and is not a policy pursued by the Armenian government. In contrast, Azerbaijan’s leadership, including President Aliyev, has repeatedly claimed that even Yerevan is Azerbaijani territory, which reflects an active political agenda rather than a historical memory.
2. Perception of Weakness: By drawing this comparison in the current context, Pashinyan risks reinforcing the perception of weakness. Given Azerbaijan’s recent aggression and occupation of Armenian territories, such statements may embolden Aliyev to increase pressure, interpreting this as fear rather than a gesture toward peace.
3. Lack of Strength in Negotiations: If Armenia were in a position to reclaim the 200 km² of territory occupied by Azerbaijan, such comparisons might be viewed as a sign of goodwill in the peace process. However, in the present situation, Pashinyan’s statement can be seen as capitulation or even betrayal in the eyes of many Armenians.
Pashinyan’s approach seems ill-timed and counterproductive, as it fails to reflect the strength and resolve needed to counter Azerbaijan’s aggressive policies. Instead, it appears to diminish Armenia’s position both domestically and internationally.
I never knew shaving off one’s beard could lead to loss of one’s brain cells. This guy has lost his mind. He talks about Armenia like he is talking about his personal property. Someone should remind this loser he is there to serve the Armenian nation instead of preaching to Armenians what he thinks about such sensitive and important historical issues he does not care or seem to know nothing about. He has no honor and dignity. He has been a major liability ever since he lied his way into power. He is definitely the devil in disguise. We should deport this traitor to Ankara or Baku and be done with it!
The Turks are desperate for a rail link through Syunik to link their two countries.
Armenia can agree to this provided that the rail link is under Armenian sovereignty, ie, no Turk flags and only Armenian Customs Officers on board.
AND
Armenia must insist that the borders are opened so that Armenians can go on pilgrimage to Ararat and an Armenian monastery is established there.
Armenia has powerful cards to play and must not squander them.
@Hagop
What, exactly, was Russia supposed to do when Pashinyan publicly declared that Artsakh was part of Azerbaijan and that the Armenian Army would not fight for Artsakh?
When the Armenians refuse to die for Artsakh, why on Earth should anybody else?
Ever since the Soviet Union central committee decided Arktash was to be part of Azerbaijan, Moscow has never changed it’s position on the matter. Hence Russia post USSR has always considered it part of Azerbaijan! Armenia NEVER for various reasons recognised Arktash as independent nor LEGALLY incorporated into Armenia. The UN now near moribund as an entity actually has always considered the area Azerbaijan as per four resolutions to that effect. Something Kremlin shill Andrew korybko would joyfully cite pre 2020 conflict. Indeed the lack of international pressure upon Armenia over the issue was mistaken as tacit sympathy. As a result of losing the 2020 conflict Armenia had to withdraw as a result it put its trust in the Russian military who failed to uphold it’s obligations hence the blockade by Azerbaijan and after nine months with it clear that no relief was coming and as part of the protracted efforts to achieve a settlement Pashinyan acknowledged in concordance with international protocols that it was part of Azerbaijan who promptly attacked and the population left for Armenia. As Russia has been grossly hypocritical towards Armenia whilst embarking on a war of conquest in Ukraine. Pashinyan is quite right to tell Russia that it’s not it’s ally in its endeavour there and clear that Armenia doesn’t recognise any of Russian annexations which incredibly includes land Russia doesn’t control. Also its the same team in power in the Kremlin and so soon after the 2020 conflict where Russia had sanctimoniously stated that it was internationally recognised as part of Azerbaijan which it bilaterally affirmed just before it’s invasion of Ukraine. Shows that it’s grossly hypocritical to imply that Armenia was wrong to recognise Arktash as part of Azerbaijan in September 2023 . As the pro Russians need constant reminders of there was no Berlin airlift nor Sarajevo siege relief from their Russian allies and the Arktash population who had put up posters of Putin which they would pass with less hopeful views of as they went into exile. As for Armenians refusing dying for Arktash claim , in 2023 some Armenians knowing that all was lost still fought to prove their point and belief.
Despite Russia letting down in 2020 and 2023 although technically over Armenians in Azerbaijan, would any right minded Armenian want Russia to continue to infantilse Armenia and in collusion with the Turks as it’s done time and time again secure an extraterritorial corridor through its territory or would they favour themselves managing their own internationally recognised territory as the UN, EU, UK, USA and Iran would rather they do? After all Russia showed itself to be no guarantor of Arktash 2020 -23
@Charles,
The Soviet Constitution, by referendum, allowed for an autonomous region, i.e. Artsakh, in one Soviet “host” republic, i.e. artificial Azerbaijan, to either join another republic, i.e. Armenia, or to secede from the “host” republic and become another independent Soviet republic equal in status to all the other republics. Artsakh Armenians did exactly that by deciding on the latter peacefully, legitimately and legally and became the 16th independent Soviet republic. All this happened before the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. This is important because by the time the USSR came to an end, Artsakh had legally seceded from Azerbaijan-SSR and it was no longer a part of it, needless to say how it had become a part of it in 1921 by Soviet misappropriation of Armenian territories under their occupation. What this means is that when USSR disintegrated in 1991 and all Soviet republics declared their independence from USSR, the new Artsakh republic did the same and like the others it declared its independence from the USSR and not from Azerbaijan-SSR because by then it was no longer a part of Azerbaijan-SSR but another independent republic within the union. We all know what happened next which was a war that Azerbaijan imposed on the Armenians to keep Artsakh under its occupation and as a result was handed a historic and an embarrassing defeat.
Given these facts, what artificial Azerbaijan claims, what Putin believes, says or does for various selfish reasons, and whatever that so-called double-talking and double-dealing unscrupulous “international community” thinks or says about the status of Artsakh is irrelevant and immaterial. No matter how you look at it, legally or historically, Artsakh is an indivisible part of the Armenian homeland. The fact that half dozen terrorist states collaborated together by ganging up on the Armenians, led by an unpatriotic and defeatist traitor, to seize, reoccupy and ethnically cleanse Artsakh of its native Armenians does not make Artsakh a part of Azerbaijan in any shape or form. This is pure terrorism, mass murder and theft. For a thousandth time, how can a territory that is almost exclusively inhabited by indigenous Armenians since time immemorial be within the boundaries of and a part of a 106-year old fascist and terrorist enemy state, or that enemy state would even allow this to happen if that territory was indeed theirs, when that very same enemy state has desecrated, destroyed and has left nothing Armenian standing in all Armenian territories under its occupation and control? You can’t take as fact what some authoritarian criminal dictator says about Artsakh just because it suits his political agenda. Study the facts and make your own conclusions instead of repeating what others say!
Theoretically only , however as there were no plebiscite within the Soviet Union on which SSR areas were to be within as the commissars knew what was best for the people as for the declaration of independence neither Baku, Moscow , Yerevan recognised it hence the UN didn’t either so it was considered part of independent Azerbaijan no matter how perverse and unjust.
IT BAFFLES ME. I watched the interview in its entirety. Why is the PM probed on such matters? Does anyone recall a Mexican reporter asking the president of Mexico if the state of New Mexico was part of Mexico? After all, Google tells me, New Mexico was the 47th state to join the Union on January 6, 1912. Obviously, the PM is not going to make a historical statement. There is no political statement that this PM or any PM could make that would not give rise to controversy if we are to make Armenian history the yardstick to such political statements. From May 28, 1918 and on, has a representative of the Republic of Armenia make claim that part of Turkey is historical Armenian lands?
@Vahe Apelian
You’ve been one of pashinyans most ardent supporters in the name of “democracy”
Pashinyan has not changed. He wrote about his desires all along
This leads me to believe people like you wanted a humiliated armenia all along, and now you’re distancing yourself
You’re despicable.
You reacted to my statement by attacking me and not disqualifying the statement.
. Now answer the question I posed: From May 28, 1918 and on, has a representative of the Republic of Armenia make claim that part of Turkey is historical Armenian lands?
Pashinyan could very well squander what few trump cards Armenia has left, especially on the rail and road link through Syunik, which is Armenia’s only strong trump card left, if he gives in to Azerbaijan’s and Turkey’s persistent maximalist demands on unrestricted rail and road access and extraterritorial rights through Syunik. Worse, he could even agree to the cession of this land strip to Azerbaijan along with other Armenian territory. Not to mention the fact that Azerbaijan has occupied 200 square kilometers of Armenian territory since 2021. None of these concerns can be dismissed and thought of as impossible with a weak, indecisive and appeasing leader like Pashinyan at the helm.
Even if such a peace treaty is signed with Azerbaijan, and the borders are opened between Armenia and Azerbaijan and Turkey, Armenia will be at a disadvantage by default, because of its small population and economy.
Its markets would be flooded with Azerbaijani and Turkish products (products from Turkey are already widespread) and marketed by Azerbaijani and Turkish middlemen in Armenia itself (which they already do across the border in Georgia), against which Armenian business would not be able to compete.
Armenians would cross the border to Turkey (just like Azeris and Iranians do) for shopping trips for cheaper goods, with their money flowing and benefitting the local Turkish economy, which would not benefit Armenia at all.
No mass tourism or shopping trips would result for Armenia either, since this part of Turkey is the poorest, most primitive and most sparsely populated region.
After the Armenian Genocide, virtually every Armenian church, cemetery and monument has been systematically destroyed, and very few unscathed or even ruined Armenian heritage is left in Western Armenia, like the sad ruins of Ani. So pilgrimages there will be bitter. Armenian groups travelling to Turkey are also often escorted by Turkish “minders” to watch their every move and behavior, hence the additional unpleasantness. This is why Armenians travel to Turkey, especially to Western Armenia, individually and keep a very low profile. This part of Turkey is also unsafe and is affected by the militant activity of Kurdish separatists, and tourists have been kidnapped or even killed.
Having lost so much, none of these developments for this potential cold peace, is a win-win situation for Armenia, no matter how much spin Pashinyan is putting on them.
There was a very famous Armenian monastery on Mt. Ararat that was destroyed by the Turks.
If the Turks want a rail link through Syunik then they must accede to all of Armenia’s demands.
The monastery must be rebuilt as it will become the focus of Armenian pilgrimages to Mt. Ararat.
And if the Turks do not give in to Armenian demands then no, they’re never getting a rail link through Syunik.
All of the above comments sound very patriotic and Just. Unfortunately,the most important element missing from these arguments is the fact that Armenia does not have a strong military force to tell Azerbaijan and Turkey to go pound sand! Until and when we build a strong Military force, we have to rely on the good will and sympathy(if any) of the international community to preserve our statehood.Let us quit crying over spilled milk and start building a strong and dedicated military force to defend our existing borders, and tell Azerbaijan and Turkey that if you want an inch of our land you’ll have to shed a lot of blood!
IT BAFFLES ME. I watched the interview in its entirety. Why is the PM probed on such matters? Does anyone recall a Mexican reporter asking the president of Mexico if the state of New Mexico was part of Mexico? After all, Google tells me, New Mexico was the 47th state to join the Union on January 6, 1912. Obviously, the PM is not going to make a historical statement. There is no political statement that this PM or any PM could make that would not give rise to controversy if we are to make Armenian history the yardstick to such political statements. From May 28, 1918 and on, has a representative of the Republic of Armenia make claim that part of Turkey is historical Armenian lands?
What a goddam idiot this pashoglu is (excuse my french). In addition to being a traitor he is a weakling. Western Armenia was a reality for thousands of years. Western Azerbaijan is concoction of the azeris with historical basis. You listen to his language it is very careful not to upset his turkic masters. He is a mini armenian style neville chamberlain at best and at worst another zelensky. Hayastancis have replaced the russians with the turks as their would be friends. Let them see how they like it.
The Armenian Plateau, also known as the Armenian Highlands, is inhabited by people who identify as Armenians.
In the 11th century, following the invasions by the Ag Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu Turkic tribes, the local population was forcibly converted to Islam after the destruction of the city of Ani, which was situated near the Armenian border with Turkey.
These tribes also occupied a significant portion of northern Iran and referred to themselves as the New Shah of Iran.
Before 1918, this region transformed into an oil-producing sheikhdom known as Tatar-Turks. Initially supported by the British, it later came under the influence of the Bolsheviks, who renamed the area Azerbaijan.
Western Armenia was real for 2,500 years. Western Azerbaijan is a fake construct of the Azeri tatars, who themselves never had a country called Azerbaijan prior to the creation of the soviet union. Dont hayastanci’s see this leader of theirs is a paid mole by Washington? He already has billions of dollars of net worth in his pocket through the sale of Artsakh. Do people in Hayastan not care?
Get rid of this mole already, put a competent just leader in charge and re-align with the Russians.
The Russians? who as the tsarists encouraged rebellion against the Turks in WW1 and let Armenians to face their fate alone. Who as the Bolsheviks signed away most of Wilsonian Armenia to kemalist Turkey in a failed attempt to woo Turkey to It’s revolutionary cause. Whose central committee in Moscow overturned the local commissars decision to assign Arktash to Armenian SSR. Who as the Soviet Union refused to allow Arktash petition to join Armenia. Who as Russian federation despite its own occupation of parts of internationally recognised Georgia and Ukraine called for Armenia to withdraw who was selling more weapons to Azerbaijan when it was obvious that they would be most likely be used against Armenia. Who prevented the gas pipeline from Iran being built to its intended capacity in the days when Yerevan and Moscow had a good relationship. During the alliance Armenia military advantage decisively slipped away to be demonstrated in 2020. Who failed to safeguard the Armenian population of Arktash which remained outside of Azerbaijan control in a breach of its own pledge to protect the population. Who affirmed support for international boundaries of Azerbaijan and opposition to secessionists just before it invaded Ukraine. Who condemed Armenia for recognising Arktash as part of Azerbaijan when it’s always done so since 1921 .
True Russia has supplied weapons to Armenia and grains and fuel for the nuclear power station .
Charles: The Russians withdrew from the Armenian turkic contact line because of the Bolshevik revolution. There was no “betrayal”. The Armenians were left to defend Western Armenia with 5,000 men due to no fault of the Russians but because most of the Armenian manpower was wiped out during the genocide. More western anti propaganda. Know your history.
Islamist Turkey doesn’t allow the building of monasteries, nor does it allow monasteries to operate on its soil. There are virtually no intact monasteries left in Turkey, except for two which are museums and which are not Armenian – a former Greek Orthodox monastery in Trabzon Province and a former Syriac monastery in Mardin Province. Ultranationalist Turkey would definitely not allow the building of an Armenian monastery on Mount Ararat for obvious reasons. The very few Armenian churches in Western Armenia that survive intact, number less than ten, and except for one that operates as an Armenian Apostolic Church in Diyarbakir, are museums deliberately adorned with Turkish flags and slogans.
Armenia’s only trump card is the rail and road link through Syunik and it must absolutely not squander this geostrategic advantage it possesses and give in to Azerbaijan’s and Turkey’s maximalist demands. There is always the risk that the coward and appeaser-in-chief Pashinyan could very well give in to these Turkic countries’ neverending demands, with no security guarantees for Armenia in return. He did so before, when he handed territory in northeast Armenia to Azerbaijan, while that country still occupies 200 square kilometers of Armenian territory.
If the Turks do not open their borders, do not give Armenian companies fair access to their markets, do not allow Armenian pilgrimages and do not allow the Monastery on Mt. Ararat to be rebuilt, (Armenia is not asking for something new, the Monastery was there for hundreds of years before the Turks destroyed it) then no the Turks are not getting a link through Syunik.
Mt. Ararat is the spiritual soul of the Armenian people. It is sacred and holy. Every Armenian home has a painting or photo of it. You can see it clearly from Yerevan.
There can be no compromise.
Pashinyan wants Mount Aragats, as the highest mountain within the Republic of Armenia, to be the new national symbol and the new focal point for Armenians, a sort of Ersatz for the higher, much grander and symbolic Mount Ararat, since it lies in Turkey. This is of course his silly futile attempt to please Azerbaijan and Turkey, by telling them for the umpteenth time that Armenia officially recognizes the borders of Azerbaijan and Turkey, and has no territorial claims. However, we have not heard about any reciprocal statements from Azerbaijan and Turkey, likewise recognizing the borders of Armenia, especially by the former. Armenia’s own territorial integrity is at stake and it is obvious that Armenia will not mention Mount Ararat and Western Armenia in talks, since both these Turkic countries would regard this as an excuse to attack Armenia and grab this corridor by force. Pashinyan, has been secretive about the talks and has not given a hint what is negotiated. If he keeps the Syunik corridor under Armenian control and jurisdiction, it will be a feat. But we are talking about a man who washed his hands off Artsakh, who handed Armenian territory to Azerbaijan without a quid pro quo, and which still occupies Armenian territory.
I do not believe that Armenia has anything to fear from open borders with the Turks.
Just look at the history of the Ottoman Empire!
It was the Armenians and the Jews who dominated the economy of the Ottoman Empire and directed its trade, Armenians, especially, regarding trade with India and China.
There would have to be a system of tariffs, of course, to prevent Armenia’s economy from being overwhelmed by cheap Turkish imports but given fair access to Turkish markets, Armenian companies should be able to flourish.
Let’s face it, Turks are clods when it comes to business.
Whether it is in politics or in business, Turks and Azeris play dirty. They are the archetypal sneaky, double-dealing middlemen and loan sharks of the region, who will swindle and take out everything in one’s pockets. That’s the type of people Armenians had to deal with in the past and could do so directly again. Armenia is dealing not only with two dictatorships, but notoriously corrupt ones on top of that. Expecting transparency and fair play from them is wishful thinking.
The worst spate of ottoman killings of Armenians and other Christians was in 1915 the Russian revolution started in spring 1917 . The tsarists encouraged rebellion against the Ottomans but left the Armenians in the lurch when facing with Turkish retaliation in other words the Russians set them up whilst the Turks did the killing or acts causing mass deaths even if not always by outright murder, starvation and exposure was part of their policy.
That’s no different from saying some Arab countries, Iran and her proxies encouraged Palestinian rebellions against Israel therefore setting them up for Israeli attacks and indiscriminate mass killings while they stood on the sidelines and watch them getting slaughtered. You are confusing LIBERATION with “rebellion”. Another mass killings of the Armenians took place in in 1890s, a quarter a century prior to the state-sponsored premeditated 1915 Armenian Genocide to seize their lands without the Armenians, and that during the reign of the Turkish red sultan, Abdulhamit II nicknamed the sick man of Europe, when all Armenians wanted were reforms in their Turkish-occupied Armenian provinces.
The removal and liquidation of the indigenous Armenians from their historic homeland in today’s “eastern Turkey” or fabricated “eastern Anatolia” was a Turkish state policy long in the making to secure what was left of the Ottoman empire for the Turks. The homogenization of what was left of the empire became the Turkish government’s policy after loss of occupied territories one after another. Homogenization meant the Turkification and Islamization of remaining territories under Turkish control. The native Armenians were neither Turkish nor Muslims!
Ararat
Effectively the Palestinians have been set up by fellow ” Brother Arabs” and Iran actually armed and supported yet when facing Israeli retaliation let to fend for themselves. Indeed the relationship between Iran and it’s proxies Hezbollah and Hamas had reached breaking point they were left to face the fire and take the heat whilst Iran was far from the conflict hence why Iran had to launch missiles at Israel otherwise it wasn’t sharing the burden. It’s a bit like the playground wind up who goads someone into a contentious act but leaves them to face the consequences unsupported even if that person had quarrel on their own account they would turn against the false friend who led them along as what they did just made it worse for them. Hence in Ukraine eventually they will realise all those in Europe and America going Slava Ukraine and displaying blue and yellow are not bearing the pain of being in a warzone and notwithstanding Russian aggression will see that they have been played. The west effectively set up the Hungarians in 1956 when inflammatory broadcasts from radio free Europe incited rebellion with the sense that they would get support which never came and faced Soviet retaliation thus Hungary although in NATO and the EU has a surprisingly cordial relationship with Russia on the principle of forgiving an enemy but not a friend who betrayed one. With the Russian empire reach into western Armenia and it’s annexation into its realm of Kars and surrounding areas in 1878 many Armenians outside obviously were enthusiastic about the prospect of Russia liberating them or at least pressuring Turkey into concessions about civic rights hence in pushback the Hamidian massacres occurred at the time Britain and Germany shielded Turkey from Russia needless to say the honeymoon between Britain and Turkey cooled and found itself in confrontation with the nation it had done so much to support, not it should be said out of sentimentality to Turkey nor animosity to Armenians but out of power play in it’s confrontation with Russia whom it would end up in common cause with against Turkey in WW1 and even pledging support for Russia to take Constantinople which angered Greece who felt it had better claims. In other words people are victims of very cynical agendas..
Indeed the expression Eastern Anatolia as pertaining to eastern Turkey of today is a contrivance from the ottoman genocide and the kemalist government and
Western Armenia was lost because the Armenians only had pistols and rifles whilst the Turks had artillery.
The Armenians in Eastern Armenia watched appalled as the Turks raped, burnt and killed their way across Western Armenia.
That’s why the Eastern Armenians greeted the Bolsheviks with bread and salt as liberators as they knew that they were the only force that would keep the Turks out.
Eastern Armenia is the only part of Armenia that is left and that is why it is so precious.
The Bolsheviks armed and financed the kemalist Turkey takeover of Western Armenia and reinstated the pre 1878 Boundary as between tsarist Russia and ottoman Turkey those on the other side were incorporated into the Soviet Union. Armenians were stitched up and manipulated into being grateful for the fact that the Soviet Union didn’t have genocidal designs for Armenia but had as stated played a key role in the destruction of western Armenia in a failed attempt to woo Turkey to international socialism . Indeed post WW2 had seller’s regrets and sought to review it which gave the Armenians false hope and led to the little known internationally spate of mass immigration of Armenians to Armenian SSR and the deportation of many Azeris to Azerbaijan SSR further souring the poor relationship between the people’s. Also given the cold war politics it led to Turkey being invited to NATO and carte blanche for repression within it being the only NATO member to repeatedly use airstrikes on its own citizens namely the Kurds and meant the genocide was firmly pushed aside until Joe Biden recognised it shortly after taking office. Once again the Russians have failed Armenia and ironically showed up their own incompetence as it drove Turkey into NATO.
You forgot that the English promised to defend Armenia, then said “boats cant sail on Mount Ararat” and the French blew up Armenian bunkers in Cilicia in a secret deal with Ataturk
I feel good that there is white replacement in both those countries.
Sad, well the remnant of Armenia; eastern Armenia is completely controlled by the US/Israel interests. They call the shots. Pashoglu is just sad doing their bidding. Sad for any descendants of Genocide survivors to be watching this.
The only entity manipulating armenians (hayastancis) is the west. That has always been the case for the last 110 years. And the manipulation is in full force now. Placing the blame on the Russians for their misfortune is a manipulative tactic of the west/israel and the turks and the hayastancis are falling for it hook line and sinker. When they lose zangezur to the turks maybe they’ll wake up and realize who their true enemy is.
Boghos
there is white replacement in mother Russia the war will accelerate globalist Jerusalem? centred ploy. However in Armenia and Azerbaijan there are in small numbers but it always starts small more Africans and Asians thus a white replacement although the Armenians can often be quite a swarthy people actually either way once the south Caucasus is racially engineered the animosities between the Armenians and Azeris will subside just like the native American tribal animosities did upon the Yankee settlers. As for white replacement in Europe this will put an end to the “Europes guilt” as the masses of Africans and Asians streaming in will not be accepting any kind of responsibility for what happened now barely living memory by other people’s beneficial to Zionist causes . Last and not least since much of the white replacement you feel good about are mainly Muslims who are less likely to be sympathetic to Armenia than the whites you want to see gone.