ANKARA (Reuters)–Turkey has agreed to restore all ties with France, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Thursday, June 21, following a breakdown in relations last year prompted by a simmering dispute over the 1915 mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.
Ankara cancelled all economic, political and military meetings with Paris in December after France’s lower house of parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of a draft law to make it illegal to deny that the killings amounted to genocide.
France’s highest court overturned the law two months later but the Turkish measures taken against France, which included restrictions on French military aircraft and ships landing or docking on its territory, have remained in place.
Speaking live on Turkish television, Davutoglu said Turkey’s Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan had ordered the sanctions be lifted after a positive meeting with France’s new President Francois Hollande at a world summit in Brazil.
“The prime minister gave the necessary instructions after meeting with Hollande. Because of this new attitude from France, these sanctions will be dropped,” Davutoglu said during an interview with news broadcaster CNN Turk.
Davutoglu said he would travel to Paris on July 5 for bilateral meetings where they would discuss taking additional “positive steps” in the future.
Relations between the countries became strained under former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and his election defeat earlier this year was viewed in Ankara as a chance to start a new phase.
Muslim Turkey accused Sarkozy, whose UMP party put forward the bill, of trying to win the votes of 500,000 ethnic Armenians in the two-round presidential vote on April 22 and May 6.
Sarkozy had also been one of the most vocal opponents of Turkish European Union membership.
(Reporting by Tulay Karadeniz; Writing by Jonathon Burch; Editing by Catherine Evans)
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And exactly what concessions did the weak, mushy French make to deserve much beneficence from their Turkish overlords?
I don’t know how many of you are aware of it, but Turkey appears to now be the most powerful, most prosperous, most successful country on Earth – maybe even the Solar System or the Milky Way galaxy,
At least that is the impression one gets. Erdogan threatens and most countries – weak and mushy psychlogically though not in other ways – give in —- if not now, then sooner or later.
Yes, Turkey is now the world’s pre-eminent superpower. Who knew?
Ever notice that in pictures of Erdogan, he is always wagging his finger at someone or something? I think he’s off his meds.
Didn’t Hollande also promise the Armenians he would recognize the Armenian Genocide during his campaign?? Same ol’ tune in France that we hear with US politics as well…..They use Armenians (Armenian Issue) then dump them….time for us to wake up and realize that no one cares about us and it is time we started caring for each other in advancing the Armenian cause instead of bickering with one another over smaller issues.
Turkey is not the world’s preeminent superpower it is the poorest country in the Middle East financially supported by western power and USA. 1) Who will forget in 2003 the USA forces and alliance planned to overthrow Saddam through Northern of Iraq but Turks leaders say No No and No – 2) Why – because it was a Muslim’s country. 3) Who wanted to obliterate Israel? I never trust politicians and I dare to say that there is possibility Hollande will not keep his promise to Armenians and will dump our cause aside.
Dave was being sarcastic, AND If the country that has the 15th biggest GDP (PPP) which is also TOPS in the middle east, 17th biggest Nominal GDP, and is a member of the G-20 is the poorest country in the Middle East, I’m moving to the middle east, and I’m moving there like yesterday. You have to truly be delusional to believe what you just said.
From Census.gov: in 2009 Turkey received 4 million dollars in military aid, and 15 million in economic aid for a grand total of 19 million dollars. Armenia received over triple that in 2009 and over 10 times that in 2008. Yes, Turkey needs the US and the West in many areas, but it is not dependent on either. Numbers don’t lie.
“Turkey is not the world’s preeminent superpower it is the poorest country in the Middle East”
That is simply not true. Wiki says that Turkey is the 8th on GDP per capita, not to forget that the 6 of the first 7 have gas resources.
“2) Why – because it was a Muslim’s country.”
No, it was nothing to do with Iraq being a Muslim country. The legitimacy of the US intervention to Iraq was and still is a highly debated subject. Turkey acted ethically right to avoid getting involved, but it was a wrong decision for its own sake.
“3) Who wanted to obliterate Israel?”
Iran, and not Turkey. There were, and there are still strong ties between Turkey and Israel. Turkey is the only country in the region which can be called “allies to Israel”. Please don’t try to make up an artificial hatred…
As far as Iraq war, Turkey demanded 36 Billion in compensation from the US as means of extortion and supposed compensation. The US said no and capped the extortion money to around 26 billion. Turkey still refused.
IT WAS ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING..
Actually the government wanted to allow US troops enter Iraq from Turkey, so they had brought a motion to the parliament. With the opposition of the other political parties that the motion hadn’t passed.
I don’t think it was about the money.
Takado, Thats not true..
CNN Feb 18, 2003 article:
“Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned the United States that it will not automatically support a war against Iraq and that it needs more assurance of financial compensation if it were to go to war.
The United States has offered about $6 billion in grants and $15-$20 billion in loan guarantees, diplomats said. Turkey argues that its losses from a drop in tourism, higher oil prices and soaring interest rates on foreign debt would far exceed that.”
Turks were offered a total 26 billion but wanted 36 billion and didn’t get it..
IT WAS ABOUT THE MONEY!
M.S.K.’s comments are facts, Mr. or Mrs. RVDV – why Turks are not admitting that their Empire massacred 1.1/2 million innocent Armenians merely being Christians?
1. No they are not facts.
2. Why would they admit it when they benefit from not doing so and no one is forcing Turkey’s hand? We don’t live in a world where people do the right thing solely because it’s the right thing to do. If we did, there would be no genocides or other crimes against humanity.
S.K.I.
RVDV is one of the very few Turkish visitors @AW who has unequivocally stated his personal belief regarding the AG: it was Genocide.
And as a private individual he is not responsible for what the Turkish State does.
‘Preciate it Avery, not used to people coming to my aid here.
Oh My God, Ermenian golds are found.
A very interesting news :
http://www.sabah.com.tr/Gundem/2012/06/22/ermenilerin-kayip-altinlari-bulundu
Why not take a “wait and see” attitude? I am sure that there are French Armenian members of Hollande’s party who can determine what he has given away to Erdogan. The Armenian Diaspora are the remnants of a people killed or forceably removed from Anatolia. The Turks know that, contrary to Talaat’s words to Amb. Morgenthau, the “Armenian Question” was not settled by the Ittihadists, just globalized. The genie is out of the bottle. They will have to deal with it honorably soon. They will have no peace until they do.
Tokado
“Actually the government wanted to allow US troops enter Iraq from Turkey, so they had brought a motion to the parliament. With the opposition of the other political parties that the motion hadn’t passed”
As you say Tokado, initially Turkey was all for it. Turkey was going to allow the US troops to utilize Turkish territory to lunch the invasion from north, with a condition that Turkish troops will also take part in the incursion and push with the US troops and occupy Mosul, Sulimaniya, Dohuk and Kirkuk where there are deposits of petroleum. The pretext behind Turkish condition was to provide protection to their Turkoman brethrens. US knows well the true intention of Turkey’s aspiration to join the invasion. Turkey always regarded Northern Iraq as part of historical Turkey. You may ask Turkoman political parties in Iraq about their views regarding the state of Kirkuk and Mosul, they will not hesitate to tell you that their ultimate goal is to see the areas mentioned above reattached to the motherland, Turkey.
I’m sure you are aware that during George Bush’s time, Kurds were regarded the only reliable US ally in the region, and the US administration was not going to risk losing the alliance of the Kurds. Hence, Erdogan receiving a no go signal from the State Department changed his position regarding allowing US troops using Turkish soil for invasion into Iraq.
Additional information, Turkey tried to implement the same politics during the first Gulf War, trying to occupy Kurdish regions under the umbrella of the coalition forces; again that attempt was rebuffed by George Bush the senior.
“Turkey acted ethically right to avoid getting involved, but it was a wrong decision for its own sake.”
When you state that Turkey acted ethically right, you remind of Libya situation. We all remember how Turkey was against the actions of French government regarding providing assistance to the rebels. Again, Turkey claimed that her position was based on ethical principal and not economical or let say Erdogan’s close relationship with Qaddaffy.
If my memory serves me well Erdogan was always for allowing US troops enter Iraq through Turkey, and following them with a Turkish military presence in Northern Iraq. As you say, Kurdish region of Iraq had a relative stability at the time of the war, but I think US would have preferred Turkish presence on the north just to have an additional partner in this war. In Turkey’s interest it was also an important opportunity to clean that region from Kurdish terrorist with a permanent military presence.
We cannot know what happened behind closed doors but in the end Turkey closed its borders and didn’t get involved. That’s why I said ethical.
In Libya’s case I’m actually not sure what is ethical or what is not. All this Arab Spring movement is quite complicated, and I fail to see the good and the bad.
It is a false guess by Daron that Northern Iraq is a part of Turkey – Q. Who were and are the indigenous people of the Northern Iraq? Read more and educate yourself about your Turks origin. >>>>>
The following are extracts from Encyclopaedia >>> (Genetic origin of Turks. Grand children of Byzantine Empire and Roman Empire.)
I am confident the above documents will let you understand where from Turks came to their already occupied area called (Turkey) lol. which use to be Assyrian Empire, period.
S.I.S,
Reread my comment, I never claimed or guessed Northern Iraq being part of Turkey, I was just stating Turkish and Torkomans position in that regard.
Please address your argument to Masoud Barzani or Jalal Talabani, I have no dog in your fight.
I’m new to this site but recent comments have this weird tendency of going to the “origin”, “genetics”, and “who is indigenous” nonsense. I think that road ends up with the notions of pure/superior race. There was a guy with those ideas in Germany, and nobody likes him.
Tokado,
We both agree that Erdogan and Turkey to a certain degree agreed to allow US troops to use Turkish soil as a launch pad for Iraq invasion as stated in New York Times:
By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: February 26, 2003
“Turkey signaled today that it was prepared to allow more than 60,000 American troops to use its bases to attack Iraq. At the same time, the United States Army’s top general said the military force for postwar Iraq could total several hundred thousand American soldiers to provide security and relief aid”.
Of course the motives of Turkey as I mentioned in my previous comment was to occupy Northern Iraq for various reasons, mainly because Turkey considers Mosul and Kirkuk as part of Turkey going back to the Ottoman days.
According to Jamestown Foundation:
“Initially, Ataturk had hoped to incorporate the Ottoman governorate of Mosul, which included the oil-rich fields around the city of Kirkuk—in what is now northern Iraq—into his new Turkish Republic. However, the area had been included in the British mandate of Iraq and Britain refused to relinquish control of it. It was only in 1926, three years after the proclamation of the Turkish Republic, that Ataturk admitted defeat and agreed to the border between Turkey and Iraq, which remains unchanged today. But the loss of Mosul and Kirkuk has rankled with Turkish nationalists ever since”.
Change of heart in regards to allowing the US troops to use Turkish soil surfaced when US rejected the Turkish proposal of establishing Turkish presence in Kirkuk and Mosul for obvious reasons.
Why Turks and Kurds Prize Kirkuk
By Tony Karon Thursday, Apr. 10, 2003
“The U.S. had promised Turkey that the Kurdish fighters would be kept out of the northern oil town, and that, indeed, had been Washington’s orders to the guerrillas working with U.S. Special Forces to confront Saddam’s northern strongholds. But once Saddam’s regime began to collapse, the Kurdish fighters took the gap and drove all the way into Kirkuk.
For Iraq’s Kurds and Turkey, the northern oil town has always been the key prize in the battle to overthrow Saddam. It was their desire to prevent the Kurds capturing Kirkuk and the other key northern oil town, Mosul, that led Turkey to demand that the U.S. agree to the deployment of tens of thousands of Turkish troops in northern Iraq. Failure to reach such an agreement was a significant factor contributing to Turkey’s refusal to grant permission for the U.S. to launch a ground invasion from its territory”.
Having access to this information, I am having difficulty to convince myself that Turkish rejection in allowing US to use her soil was based on ethical principle.
Daron,
It as about the money.
CNN Feb 18, 2003 article:
“Turkish leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned the United States that it will not automatically support a war against Iraq and that it needs more assurance of financial compensation if it were to go to war.
The United States has offered about $6 billion in grants and $15-$20 billion in loan guarantees, diplomats said. Turkey argues that its losses from a drop in tourism, higher oil prices and soaring interest rates on foreign debt would far exceed that.”
Turks were offered a total 26 billion but wanted 36 billion and didn’t get it..
IT WAS ABOUT THE MONEY!
Sorry John: Daron is right.
Turks didn’t really need that money: you need to distinguish their public pronouncements from their real intentions. Real goals and intentions are never pronounced publicly when it comes to long term strategic interests (same applies to pretty much all countries).
Turkey was after more territory and strategic assets. Control of oil fields in Kirkuk and Mosul would be worth hundreds of US$ Billions over many decades. Plus, it would reduce their dependence on foreign supplies.
US$ 30 Billion or whatever is chump change compared to that. Turks figured that amount as an extra bonus, gravy. The real prize, as Daron showed, were the oil fields and control of strategic regions (i.e. Turkish troops right under the nose of Iraqi Kurdistan).
Turks are lots of things. But one thing they are not is stupid: their foreign policy looks decades into the future.
One thing we Armenians can learn from them.
Sorry Avery,
How smart could the Turks really be? They didn’t get the oil fields and they didn’t get the money either. In fact the Kurds made out much better instead. The real Turkish concern was a nightmare scenario for them, of an autonomous Kurdish state that also controlled the oil field which is much closer to reality today then the Turks controlling them.
Also i remember Paul Wolfowitz, one of the main planners (instigators) of the Iraq made up war saying that Turks had made a horrible mistake and would regret it later…The Iraq war did cause a rift between the two countries..
Avery the real “luck” of the Turks being the Golden Child of the USA, besides its strategic location, is the fact that the “Donmehs” control it.. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be half as important to the USA, England and Israel.
John,
I agree with you. I avoided to over saturate my point by providing too much information.
Here’s another link confirming your point:
“Turkish Demand Risks Impeding War Strategy
SHOWDOWN WITH IRAQ
Ally wants a larger aid package if it is expected to give U.S. a northern front against Iraq.
ANKARA, Turkey — The Bush administration’s plans to open a northern front in a war against Iraq appeared in jeopardy Tuesday after the Turkish government said it won’t seek a parliamentary vote allowing U.S. troops in the country unless Washington greatly increases the size of a proposed aid package.
Facing strong resistance at home to a war, Turkish officials said they need far more than the $6 billion in grants and $20 billion in loans that the U.S. has offered before they will seek legislative approval for the troop movement”.
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/feb/19/world/fg-turkey19
John, it is obvious to educated politicians that Turkey drains money from USA and European countries. Turkey is a populated and poor country seeking help from others. Thanks to American tax payers for supporting so called Turkey. The Empire of 19th. century. lol
M.S.K. honestly, if the USA and European countries stop supporting Turkey
they will starve to death and their government will paralyze in a period of months. M.S.K. you must be a good politician and historian – God Bless You.
Do you or MSK actually believe what you’re saying or are you bashing Turkey just for the sake of bashing Turkey?- cause you can do better, there’s lots of “bashing” material.
{“I think that road ends up with the notions of pure/superior race. There was a guy with those ideas in Germany, and nobody likes him.”} write our Turkish guest Tokado.
before you invoke Hitler on these pages, presumably equating our statements about us Armenians being indigenous to Armenian Highlands with his odious racial theories, read this article, Turk Denialist Tokado bey:
[Turkish racism: an unpleasant story – Hurriyet]
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=turkish-racism-an-unpleasant-story-2010-07-13
As a public service, I am inserting some excerpts from that article:
[The First Turkish Historical Congress held in Ankara in 1932 was the first big step. In the 10-day-long official gathering, many “scientists” presented many “findings” about the origins of the Turkish people. Dr. Reşit Galip, a passionate supporter of Atatürk, defined this “superior race” as “the tall, white, thin-nosed, proper-lipped, often blue-eyed Alpin race,” known for virtues such as “civility, heroism, and artistic and social talent.”]
[Another speaker, Dr. Şevket Aziz Kansu, presented a blue-eyed and well-built peasant couple and their “offspring” to the congress, defining them as ideal samples of Turkish stock. He was passionately applauded when he returned to Atatürk, who presided over the hall, and greeted him as the hailed leader of this “highly evolved” race.]
[With full official support, she began a countrywide campaign of “cephalometry” (measuring the skulls of living people), “craniometry” (measuring the skulls of dead people), and “phrenology” (inferring characteristics from skull features). A staggering 64,000 people are known to have been “measured” during this campaign — and many graves were opened, including that of Sinan.]
Regarding: {this weird tendency of going to the “origin”, “genetics”, and “who is indigenous” nonsense}
No, it is not nonsense: AG Denialists like you want to erase the Armenian name and presence from our ancestral homeland, so you (plural), descendants of Seljuk Turk invaders, can claim there were no Armenians in Asia Minor: therefor, no need to worry about returning anything to Armenians, because, “….we Turks are the natives”, or something like that.
And after you read the Hurriyet article, make sure you come back and question the veracity of the facts in the article: you wrote a while back that you question everything, don’t you ?
So Dr. Reşit Galip, and Dr. Şevket Aziz Kansu made racist statements (even maybe more than that). I don’t care about them, what I do care is the present. I’m just saying that we should all be cautious not to get on that level. Of course I’m not equating anybody here to Hitler, but I saw many arguments here on how Armenians are indigenous, first people to accept Christianity, a race who is not violent (of course accompanied with how Turks are violent), a race who produced many valuable persons (with how Turks have given nothing to the world), etc, etc. These things have no value in paper, but it just fuels the though my people/race is better than yours. I don’t like that.
I doesn’t matter who is native who is not, or who is more awesome and cool. We all live around the same geography and we just need to learn to get along.
“AG Denialists like you want to erase the Armenian name and presence from our ancestral homeland, so you (plural), descendants of Seljuk Turk invaders, can claim there were no Armenians in Asia Minor: therefor, no need to worry about returning anything to Armenians, because, “….we Turks are the natives”, or something like that.”
I don’t. It should be hard for you to sleep with all these conspiracy theories in mind. Do you have the same theories for other Turks, or just for me? If it’s just for me than I have to check around for spy cameras and microphones since you should know me well before saying that.
I sleep very well at nights: thank you very much.
{“I don’t.”}
Of course you do: anyone who denies the Armenian Genocide by default does.
You do deny the historical fact of the AG, do you not ?
And you want something from the present ?
OK: go re-read some of the placards your Turkish countrymen displayed at Taksim a couple of months ago. And remember that the Taksim march was endosed by the Turkish State, and placards were pre-approved.
Here, I’ll give you a couple (paraphrased):
“All Armenians are bastards”; “Today Taksim, tomorrow Yerevan”; “We will bury you on Mt. Ararat”.
Would you like me to start listing all the racist, Anti Armenian posts from TZ and HDN ? As in present ?
tokado,
Why stating the historical facts, even though you say you’re not equating anybody here to Hitler, makes you uncomfortable? What is it remotely reminiscent to “racist” in stating that Armenians are indigenous, sedentary people? Or the first people to accept Christianity as state religion? Or a race that in no historical chronicle is mentioned as violent? Or a race that produced many talented persons? By the way, Armenians are not a race. There is no such a race as “Armenian”. They are just one of many peoples.
You say these things have no value. Why? For any nation, its civilizational achievements have value. Why stating those achievements is perceived as something that fuels allusion as though one people is better than the other? If a German said that his or her nation produced great composers, philosophers, inventors, engineers, army commanders, effective state management, etc., I wouldn’t say: ‘I don’t like that’. I’d say ‘I don’t like that’ when a German would proudly say that his or her nation produced monsters like Hitler, the Nazi ideology and practice, concentration camps, and crematoria.
In the matter of national concern that most of the articles here discuss, namely: the Armenian Genocide, it DOES matter who is native and who is not, because Ottoman Turks have effectively and, yes, savagely, eradicated all the presence—physical, cultural, and material—of most of native peoples inhabiting Asia Minor long before Turks have popped up on the world maps. If Turks were tolerant and respectful people towards the natives, stating the Armenian, Assyrian or Greek indigenousness to the region wouldn’t be necessary as often as you see it. But since Turks only count from the year their Seljuk nomadic warriors invaded the region and the date their colonizing empire was created that brought destruction to native peoples, we sometimes remind you who were living and developed high civilizations on the lands where Turks now conveniently “live around the same geography”.
Your last phrase: “we just need to learn to get along” couldn’t be more cynical. Native Christian peoples of Asia Minor know firsthand how Turks “get along” with non-Turks. Don’t give us this BS next time.
Talin, I wanted to answer you but in the end of your comment I saw “Don’t give us this BS next time.”
So no need to answer. I see very well what kind of debater you are…
Avery,
“Of course you do: anyone who denies the Armenian Genocide by default does.”
Do I? Oh my god. I think I should have another side that I’m not aware of. You are so full of anger and hate that every single person who does not bash Turkey is for you an enemy of Armenians. I don’t have anything against armenians but you are a stereotyping person. I’m sorry but I fail to understand you.
“OK: go re-read some …… present ?”
This is irrelevant. A group of Turkish people have racist claims. Shame on them. I condemn all racism regardless of its origin. Since a number of people who is only related to me by the link of nationality have racist intentions, am I also considered as racist? What kind of logic is that?
What you are basically saying “There are lots of racist comments from Turks, so it is also ok to have from Armenians as well”. No it is not OK for either sides.
cynical is right Talin.
Tokado bey: read this article by righteous humanitarian Turk writer Orhan Kemal Cengiz: [Recognizing the victimhood of the slain Christians]
http://www.todayszaman.com/columnistDetail_getNewsById.action?newsId=284687
after you have read it, see if you can muster up the nerve to come back and preach to us Armenians to, quote, “…learn to get along”.
Here is one paragraph that demonstrates what some Turks, at present, regard as “getting along”:
{“On April 18, 2007, three missionaries were killed by having their throats slit. When Emre Günaydın, prime suspect among the five youngsters caught red-handed in the murder of the missionaries, was captured, he said to police that there were 49 illegal churches in Malatya where, in fact, only a dozen Christians, including those who had been barbarically killed, lived.”}
Note: Kudos to TZ for giving article space to someone like OKC.
Tokado: First off, let me say that Avery is willing to discuss and debate every subject, regardless of who brings it up, with the exception of the AG. If you deny the AG youre basically calling his whole people a bunch of greedy liars, and you call their ancestors traitors. As you can imagine, there isn’t a lot of wiggle room on that subject. Yes, he might never be fond of Turkish people in general, but I don’t think he has problems with individual Turks who accept the reality of what happened. Look, I don’t know if you’re a denialist so I will ask openly and directly and I want a yes or no answer. Was what happened in 1915 genocide? If your answer is no, then don’t realistically expect a warm welcome on the comment threads.
Talin: You need to calm down. You can’t go accusing every Turk you encounter. I’m not even a denialist and yet you insinuate that I am. Very little progress will be made with your current mentality. Know your enemies and take a firm stance against them, but don’t drive away potential allies. You’ll only hurt your cause in the end.
” If you deny the AG youre basically calling his whole people a bunch of greedy liars, and you call their ancestors traitors. ”
I don’t get this logic but I guess you’re right.
” Look, I don’t know if you’re a denialist so I will ask openly and directly and I want a yes or no answer. Was what happened in 1915 genocide? ”
I would say yes if I address Armenian version of the story. I would say no if I address Turkish side. I have seen proofs of both sides. Since no sides disprove the other, but throw a bunch of their proofs, and ask people to “believe”, this whole debate does not follow the scientific method. So my answer is “I don’t know”. When I first come here I was hoping to learn more and maybe discuss to real people about this subject. But apparently the philosophy here is “if you’re not with me then you’re against me”.
Fine then, I’m off.
I don’t accuse. I pinpoint inaccuracies in comments. And I am calm, because the truth is on our side. I never insinuated that you were a denialist. I invited your attention to the inaccuracies in your comments in another thread. I know my enemies very well: I was raised hearing the witness stories of my maternal side who were tortured and mutilated but managed to escape Ottoman Turkish savagery.
THANKS DARON, WHAT A SHAME TO THESE GREEDIEST PEOPLE LOL.
ANKARA, Turkey — The Bush administration’s plans to open a northern front in a war against Iraq appeared in jeopardy Tuesday after the Turkish government said it won’t seek a parliamentary vote allowing U.S. troops in the country unless Washington greatly increases the size of a proposed aid package.
Facing strong resistance at home to a war, Turkish officials said they need far more than the $6 billion in grants and $20 billion in loans that the U.S. has offered before they will seek legislative approval for the troop movement”.
RVDV, You made me to laugh – bashing Turkey, I was explaining to you Turkey massacred 1.1/2 million innocent Armenians purely because of being Christians. I advise you to accept the reality if not I would consider you a good composer of false statements or a day light dreamer.
“I was explaining to you Turkey massacred 1.1/2 million innocent Armenians purely because of being Christians”
Thanks for explaining the obvious- I know the definition of genocide and which events constitute one. Will your next revelation of the obvious be about the sky being blue? Perhaps you forgot the part where you called Turkey, quote. “the poorest country in the Middle East”. You have to be at a different level of delusional to actually believe that. You have to be allergic to facts to say that.
RvDv – is Davutoglu (son of Davuod) your cousin?
I will write u in a very simple manner – read the following which might convince you that Turks have committed Genocide and are supporters of Genocidal leaders:
Congress May Cut off Aid to Turkey For Hosting Sudan’s Genocidal President
Rvdv once told us that his own Kurdish grandfather was hung by the Turkish Govt. for aiding armenians during the AG and he knows his history. His family was victimized too. Even if he was a “denialist” (which he isn’t), I would read what he has to say if only out of respect for his great grandfather.
My father,who was much smarter than I am, (24 international patents in electronics),once told me that the AG issue would never be resolved between Armenians and Turks, that only a third party could accomplish that. The Kurds aren’t afraid of the truth and have on occasion admitted and apologised for their role in the AG.
Maybe we should be talking to them more often (and the Assyrians too).
Since a recent video I saw on the Kurdish homeland claimed both Mt Ararat and Van, I hope he continues posting because he has some serious “splainin'” to do.
Two last points, having lost the “human victim shield” of the jewish people, the Turkish Govt., in a move even Goebbels himself would be impressed with, is now
latching onto our native Americans (who were also victims of a racist and genocidal Govt. Policy), as a “cover” (and leverage against AG recognition in the US) through a 25 year “trade agreement” with some american tribes. The Bill is HR 2362-Rep Tom Cole. It’s imperative, (without denying any valid native claims), that Armenian-American organisations and citizens quickly drive a stake through this cynical sham of a Bill.
I also wanted to recommend a youtube documentary (about 10 minutes) titled; “Genocide-Armenian Bones”. It features a saintly Bishop from Lebanon explaining the AG in graphic description to believers (and denialists) alike.
I agree with rvdv that we must be very careful not to alienate and insult sympathetic people of any nationality/ethnicity/religion who could become our greatest friends and supporters in the future.
I second that David-usa:
M.S.K.:
I have read RVDV’s posts for a long time; since he first started posting @AW in fact.
I have had numerous “jousts” with him on many subjects. He is a strong advocate for today’s Turkey: it is to be expected, since he considers himself a Turk by choice.
Just the same, he has stated unequivocally, and on many occasions, his personal conviction that Ottoman and CUP Turks committed a Genocide against Armenians. He has challenged Turkish Denialists on AW pages without hesitation regarding the AG.
And writing things like “is Davutoglu (son of Davuod) your cousin?” is really weak: sorry to have to say that to you.
John,
There’s no need to “yes shidag em toun skhal es”, the points that were raised by Avery, you and myself do not contradict each other; rather complement each other.
{“I would say yes if I address Armenian version of the story. I would say no if I address Turkish side. I have seen proofs of both sides. “}
there you have it: like I said; you are an AG Denialist — Tokado.
There is no Armenian version; there is no Turkish side; there is no Turkish proof.
The Earth is not flat.