A groundbreaking book by independent scholar and historian Rifat Bali was published recently in Turkey, unearthing facts and first-hand accounts that unmistakably illustrate how the Turkish establishment blackmailed the leaders of the Jewish community—and through them Jewish organizations in the United States—to secure their support of the Turkish position against the Armenians’ campaign for genocide recognition. The title of the book, Devlet’in Ornek Yurttaslari –Cumhuriyet Yıllarında Türkiye Yahudileri 1950-2003, can be roughly translated into English as “The Model Citizens of the State–Jews of Turkey in the Republican Period 1950-2003.” (I will refer to the book as “The Model Citizens” in this article.)
The book is a product of the meticulous work Bali carried out for many years at around 15 archives worldwide, including the American Jewish Archives (Cincinatti, Ohio), B’nai B’rith International Archives (Washington, D.C.), National Archives and Records Administration (Maryland), Israeli National Archives (Jerusalem), Central Zionist Archives (Jerusalem), Turkish State Archives (Ankara), public archives in Tel Aviv, private archives (like that of Manajans Thomspson A.S., an advertising agency based in Istanbul), and his personal archives. He also researched hundreds of books, dissertations, and articles in Turkish and other languages, and interviewed numerous individuals.
“The Model Citizens” is in fact the complementary volume of Bir Turklestirme Seruveni–Cumhuriyet Yıllarında Türkiye Yahudileri, 1923-1945 (A Story of Turkification–Jews of Turkey in the Republican Period 1923-1945), a reference book Bali published in 1999 that reveals the true picture of the relations of domination between the ruling elite and non-Muslims in general (and Jews, in particular) after the founding of the Turkish Republic.
Rifat Bali’s books are the richest sources of information for anyone looking to study the history of the non-Muslims in Turkey during the republican period. These books differ from others by their sheer wealth of archival references, details from daily life, and insights into the political, social, and cultural background. They are the result of arduous and untiring work carried out in both the public and private archives, in addition to a very detailed scanning of the daily press—which, apparent in both volumes of the history of the Jews of Turkey, significantly sheds light on how the “establishment” in Turkey, an organic system covering not only the state apparatus but also the representatives of the “civil society” from business organizations to the press, operated as a whole to treat the non-Muslims in Turkey as hostages and not as equal citizens. Although the history of the minorities in Turkey has become a topic of interest among the dissenting academia and a limited circle of intellectuals (especially after the turn of the millennium simultaneously with Turkey’s prospective membership to the European Union), as far as I can see, none of the works in this field is supported by such a comprehensive press scan, which includes cartoons in addition to news items and articles.
Turkish Jews lobbying against the Armenian Genocide
In his 670-page book, Rifat Bali gives a detailed account of the Turkish government’s efforts to mobilize its Jewish subjects to win the support of the Jewish lobby in the United States against the Armenian campaigners. At the same time, Bali shows, how the Turkish authorities played the Israeli government against U.S. policymakers for the same purpose, by making use of its strategic position in the Middle East, at times promising rewards (i.e., raising the level of diplomatic relations with Israel), at times overtly or covertly making threats (i.e., cutting off Israel’s vital military logistical resources by hindering the use of U.S. bases in Turkey).
The book also offers rich material about how Turkish diplomats and semi-official spokesmen of Turkish policies, while carrying out their lobbying activities, threatened both Israel and the U.S. by indicating that if the Jewish lobby failed to prevent Armenian initiatives abroad—Turkey might not be able to guarantee the security of Turkish Jews. Such Armenian initiatives included the screening of an Armenian Genocide documentary by an Israeli TV channel in 1978 and 1990; Armenian participation in an international conference in Israel in 1982; Armenian genocide bills up for discussion in the U.S. House of Representatives, and so on. It has been a routine practice for Turkish authorities to invariably deny such threats. However, Bali’s industrious work in the archives reveals first-hand accounts that confirm these allegations.
But this is not all. Rifat Bali throughout his book unfolds the entire socio-political setting of the process of making the Jewish community leaders active supporters of Turkish governments’ struggle against the “Armenian claims” in the international arena.
Now let us look at this background. From what Bali brings to our attention, we can see that there has always been a frantic, extremely vulgar anti-Semitism freely expressed by Islamic fundamentalists and racists, and openly tolerated by the government and judiciary. Such anti-Semitism—escalating at times with the rising tension between Israel and the Muslim countries of the Middle East—often went as far as warmly praising Hitler for doing the right thing and exterminating the Jews; declaring Jews the enemies of the entire human race; listing characteristics attributed to Jews as the worst that can be found in human beings; in one instance, putting up advertisements on walls in Jewish-populated neighborhoods in Istanbul; and in another case, sending letters to prominent members of the Jewish community threatening that if they didn’t “get the hell out of Turkey” within one month, no one would be responsible for what happened to them.
Whenever Jewish community leaders have approached the authorities for a determined stance against such open anti-Semitism, the answer has been the same: These are marginal voices that have no significant effect on the general public; and there is freedom of expression in Turkey.
The eternal indebtedness of Jews to Turks
An important fact about such violent anti-Semitism is that it goes hand in hand with the widespread official and public conception of the Jews as guests who are indebted to their hosts; it is a debt that cannot be paid no matter how hard the debtors tried. This view isn’t only shared by extremist elements in Turkey, but by the entire society—from the elites to the average person. It is a conviction purposefully designed and maintained by the establishment. And it enables the perpetual, unending, and unrestricted generation and regeneration of the relations of domination in Turkey between the establishment and non-Muslims in general, and Jews in particular, manifested in the treatment of the latter as hostages.
There are regular manifestations of this relationship. The most unbearable is the shameless, extremely offensive repetition by both top-ranking government officials and the mainstream media of how Turkey generously offered shelter to the Jews in 1492, when they were expelled from Spain, and how the Turkish people have always been so “kind” to treat the Jews with “tolerance” throughout history. This theme is repeated on every occasion but is voiced more loudly and more authoritatively whenever pressure on Turkey regarding the Armenian Genocide increases abroad. Another theme has been the obligation of the Jews to show material evidence of their gratitude to Turkey on account of the latter’s welcoming of German Jewish scientists right after the Nazis’ ascension to power. (Readers of Bali’s first volume instantly will remember how Turkey declined thousands of asylum requests by German Jews; how 600 Czeckoslavakian Jews on board the vessel “Parita” were turned down; and how 768 passengers on the Romanian vessel “Struma,” after being kept waiting off Istanbul for weeks in poverty and hunger, were sent to death in the Black Sea by Turkish authorities, with only one survivor in the winter of 1942.)
An illustrative example is the story of the fury that broke out in Turkey in 1987 when the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum Council in Washington, D.C. decided to include the Armenian Genocide—as the first genocide of the 20th century— in the Memorial Museum that was going to be built.
The mainstream media, and not only the ultra-nationalist extremists, started a campaign that would last for years. Melih Asik from Milliyet (which has always positioned itself as a liberal and democratic newspaper), in his article on Dec. 20, 1987, accused “Jews” for being “ungrateful.” After observing the regular ritual of reminding the Jews of the Turks’ generosity in 1492 and during World War II, he wrote: “We treated them with utmost kindness for many years and now these same Jews are preparing to present us to the world in the Holocaust museum as genociders. Before everything else this behavior should be exhibited in the museum of ‘historical displays of ingratitude and disgrace.’”
Melih Asik, as can be seen, is so confident that his readers would not question the use of the words “these same Jews,” nor ridicule the identification of those Jews who sought shelter in the Ottoman Empire in 1492 with those sitting in the Holocaust Memorial Museum Council in 1987. He is that confident because he knows that such identification and essentialization is a regular, daily pattern internalized by the readers of the Turkish press.
Another very liberal and democrat anchorman of Turkey, Mehmet Ali Birand, known as a taboo breaker in recent years, joined—and even surpassed—Asik in his Dec. 29, 1987 article that appeared in Milliyet. In it, he publicly called on the Jews of Turkey to fulfill their “duty of gratitude” and do their best to prevent the Armenians from including the Armenian Genocide in the museum. He added: “Isn’t it our right to expect [such a display of gratitude] from every Turkish citizen?” There’s hardly any need to mention that just before this call to duty, Birand paid tribute to the routine of mentioning the Turks’ generosity towards the Jews back in 1492.
Not an apologist at all
Yet, it is important to note that Bali is by no means interested in justifying the Jewish lobby’s vigorous efforts to please the Turkish authorities. While he puts forth a wealth of evidence of the huge pressure the Jewish community in Turkey is subjected to, that evidence does not prevent him from giving a critical account of how the Jewish leadership in Turkey has displayed an eagerness to advocate Turkish views and to support official Turkish policies. There are numerous accounts in the book of how the Turkish chief rabbinate confirmed the Jewish community’s happiness and well-being in Turkey, opposing the promotion of the Armenian Genocide thesis, and how the Quincentennial Foundation, established by Turkish Jewish leaders in 1992 to celebrate the 500th year anniversary of the arrival of the Jews to Ottoman lands, actively championed Turkish official theses.
It is clear from the book that Bali does not like to make comments on the meaning of his findings; rather, he puts the facts together like a scientist, avoiding to make personal comments, draw conclusions, or speculate about the reasons or outcomes of certain facts and events. What he exposes is clear enough to make the picture complete in the eyes of the reader. It’s up to the reader to acknowledge, for example, the fact that those who criticized Turkish Jews for their submissiveness had no right to expect bravery—when none of them raised their voice against the rabid anti-Semitism freely displayed by fundamentalists, or against the innuendos from government officials, or against the quite obvious threats from opinion leaders who kept asking the Jews to prove their loyalty to the Turkish state or relinquish their right to be treated as equal citizens.
A last word about Rifat Bali’s book “Model Citizens.” It should definitely be translated into English for those who are interested in the Jewish factor in Turkey’s struggle against Armenian initiatives to recognize the genocide. It would be impossible for anyone either in Turkey or elsewhere to make a realistic, objective, and complete evaluation of Turkey’s success in securing the support of Jewish leaders both in Turkey and abroad without reading this book. Not only that, but the “Model Citizens” is a guide to understanding how deeply rooted anti-Semitism still is in Turkey that claims to be a European country knocking on the door of the EU. It also shows how powerful it can be when mobilizing a country’s human resources against its Jewish citizens—to make the leaders of the Jewish community act as they are told. Turning the pages of Bali’s book, the reader is made to see that anti-Semitism has a historical context so horrifying and so vivid in the collective memory that it can be very instrumental in manipulating victims, and very successful in carving out “model citizens” as the voluntary executioners of government policies.
Hye, from Canberra Times (Australia – 07-18-09)
“KILLERS WHO FLOUT THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH” – re the Armenian Genocide….
Dr. Mehmed Resid, who shortly before he killed himself, admitted
“My Turkishness prevailed over my medical calling.”
I lived in the Fresno area for awhile and we had some very good Armenian friends there. That was the first time I had heard anything about the Armenian genocide. It sounds like the book that was reviewed has not been translated into English. However I will begin to look for more information on that period of time. Thank you for sparking my interest in this subject. I work for Footnote.com which is a historical document and genealogical research site. I am always interested in reviewing history and specific incidents. This is one that I have had interest in for quite some time!
It is unfortunate that we know the truth, we know what is going on yet we can’t do anything about it..it is mind blowing to know that Turkey after all this, still can stand and preach democracy, freedom of speech and how civilized and collective society they are…
I am just happy that we have people like Rifat and others who put their lives on line to publish the truth get their word out.. I just hope that sooner than later the world comes to a realization that Turkey is working under false and wrong pretense and get all their dirt out of water once and for all….
I am tired of reading over and over again about how Turkey is using its evil claws to gather up all the power to use against every single man who stands up against it… ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.. our leaders should wake up and smell the evil that is represented by this entity called Turkey…
This book needs be published in English. This book needs to be circulated among the people all over the world.. the more we share with the world, the better chance we have educating everyone what truly goes on in the depths of the eviland Turkey.
As an Armenian of Istanbul I know very well the role of Jewish Organizations in blockading the Armenian Genocide Resolution in the American Congress.It’s an undeniable fact that Israel and Turkey are two twin Jewish states in the Middle East and even Muslim Turkish intellectuals recognize this fact.The Sabbateans and other Crypto Jews in Turkey founded the secular Republic of Turkey and by annihilating Christian subjects they became the kings and queens of the new Turkish Republic in all spheres like Business,Art,Military,Bureaucracy.There are so strong that only a few Turks had the chance to enter the Turkish Foreign Ministry and most of the Turkish Foreign Ministers were of Sabbatean origin like Tevfik Rustu Aras,Tansu Çiller or İsmail Cem İpekçi etc.Today there is an internal war between the Sabbatean elite and the sympathizers of the rulling AKP in Turkey.Wish that AKP will prevail and the dark rulling elite of this country will become history.
non è la prima volta che gli ebrei in turchia disconoscono le atrocità turche verso gli armeni per salvare il collo
baciare la mano al carnefice è un tentativo di salvarsi il collo
My address is to Sevan, the brave Armenian who lives in Istanbul. God bless you, how beautiful and to the point your comment is. The fact about Crypto Jews and their influence before and after the Armenian Genocide is not well published in books and articles. Although recently it is becoming more publicized, but it needs to be addressed more and studied more scientifically.
it’s the bitter reality.The same was done to the Greeks,they were also a brilliant community.Today there are only 2000 Greeks left in Turkey.Armenians and Greeks were older ennemies for the Jews than the Arabs or Persians.Armenians and the Greeks were in constant rivalry against the Jews for the High positions in the Ottoman Empire.Armenians were only 10% in the city of İzmir but they were controlling 80% of the city’s commerce.They were the biggest exporters in that city.They were even more brilliant than the Greeks.The Turks who are not ignorant on this issue and it’s really hard to find them are surprised when they learn these facts and asking how could it be possible that the Empire liquidated its most sophisticated population?Well the answer is very easy.Sultan Mahmut II who can be called as the Peter the Great of the Ottoman Empire was financed by Armenian Bankers.As a reformator he saw that the Janissary Army was no longer in capacity to defend the Empire against modern standing armies.He treid to abolish it.Jewish bankers like Isaya Aciman or Behor Çelebi Carmona resisted against the Sultan’s decision because they were using the Janissaries to collect their money lendings.It was a kind of mafia during that period.The Sultan had enough of these people.The Janissary Order was abolished and the Jewish Bankers were hanged including Behor Çelebi Carmona who was a high figure in the Jewish community and the one of the most richest men in the Empire.Well the Jews never forgot this action.Still today in Turkey Jews commemorate the killing of Behor Carmona with a ceremony.After the elimination of Jewish Power the Armenians became the Kings of the Kings in the Empire until the Young Turk rule.Theodor Herzl writes in his memoirs that after the refusal by Sultan Abdülhamit to sell Palestine to the Jews,he contacted the Young Turks who were in exile in European cities like Paris.Another ‘coincidence’ is that the Young Turk newspaper was published by a famous Zionizt figure Wladimir Jabotinsky.Emmanuel Carasso, another jewish figure who helped the Young Turks to get international assistance can also be called as a ‘coincidence’.Dear friends Armenians have mostly Armenian names.I live in Turkey and my name is Sevan.But the Jews even those who are not secret Jews like Mr.Bali have muslim names like Rıfat or Kemal or Selim.The jew takes the name Nicolas in France like Nicolas Sarkozy(his mother was a Salonican Jewess member of the Mazliyah family).In Russia the Jew takes the name Vladimir like Lenin or Oligarch Gussinski.In Austria his name would be Bruno like Bruno Kreisky.In America he would be named Richard like Holbrooke and this goes on and on.If the Jew feels embarrassed by the overwhelming majority,he would convert to Islam or Christianity and remain Jewish in the bottom of his heart.The Armenian character is different,he would die but rare are those who change their religion even for hiding he would never deny his faith.Well it’s a good thing but it’s false if your life is in danger than you must convert for a while than after gaining security you can easily reconvert to Christianity.That was one of our biggest mistakes.The Jews learned this science in their thousands years of Diasporan Life.I hope that my writings were instructive.God bless you Varoujan and Dear Armenian Compatriots.Don’t forget ‘One Nation,One Culture’.Armenians are still alive on every corner of the Planet and we reestablished our Homeland and Artsakh is free.Go and visit these places you will be proud.I have a Chechen friend and he confessed me that he admires our nation.Today we have more than my Chechen friend’s best dreams.Never forget this fact.
Dear Sevan, it’s unbelievable that such racist words appear in Armenian Weekly. I am too from Turkey, an ethnic Turk (well, not a crypto Jew or Sabbetean!), who firmly believe that Turkey should recognise the Armenian genocide and who is a loyal reader of Armenian Weekly. I am shocked to read your message. How can anyone derive such feelings and thoughts from Gunaysu’s article? Either you read only the title and not the article itself, or your hatred of Jews is so strong that you couldn’t understand what you read. It’s very sad to see that nobody objected your hateful words about Jews. Isn’t there somebody to say no to such openly racist words?
As an Armenian of Istanbul I know very well the role of Jewish Organizations in blockading the Armenian Genocide Resolution in the American Congress.
How does you living in Istanbul make you have better insight into what is going in halls of Congress ?
Sevan, you have a lot of time on your hands, stop thinking about the Jews. Your not brave for living in Turkey, it just happens to be where you live. Furthermore your obsessed with issues that are beyond your intellectual ability. Go read a few books.
Why Elif hanim you look too upset about Sevan’s article? There is a part of reality in the writings of Mr.Sevan after all the minister of finance of Young-Turk governement was also of Jewish origin mr,Cavid who has been hanged 1926 by Mustafa Kemal-accused of comploting against him.The Armenians are the first to honnor all those Jews who defended Armenians with great humanity like Henry MORGENTAU,Franz Welfer and others and nowdays Hair ORON,Israel Charny;but let us to hate all those jews who complote on our back by defending a genocidal country like Turkey
a genocidal “country like Turkey”?, it is because of people like you, that reconciliation is made impossible with the new generations. I for one, will never yield to your hate, regardless of how many congresses you have paid.
What about Mr. Five Percent ; Was he a Jew or a Turk who changed his name to Armenian?
Very sad to read Sevan’s comments in Armenian Weekly. They are not only factually incorrect, but send the kind of message that I believe only very few readers of AW would share or support.
Dear Sevan, I have no idea why we Armenians should argue for Jews…Jews are well aware of Armenian Genocide..there is no doubt in my mind… unfortunately there are some selfish Jews in this world, where they think they were the only ones in a dark chimney and nobody else suffered the way Jews suffered … I have a Jewish friend, and he strongly agree with me…….
Jews are great people they ressurected their ancient homeland and Israel is a mini-America in the desert of the Middle East.At lokk at the Armenians we have billionaires all around the world including in Turkey and we can’t use this potential for our tiny Armenia.Only a few idealists spent their finances to help our Motherland.The A
The Armenian Diaspora is too focused on the 1915 Genocide issue.I am not saying that this struggle is wrong but without a strong Armenia we will reexperience the same tragedies and the time has come to do something.Every Armenian should visit Armenia and help it wherever he/she can.I live in Istanbul I visited it twice.I will also visit Armenia this autumn.
You seem knowledgable in recent Turkish history, however your rhetoric is reminiscent of the polished Islamic fundamentalists who seek to drive a wedge between Jews and Armenians, accusing the former of using the Comittee of Union and Progress to wipe out the commercial competition of the latter. This is sophisticated BLACK PROPAGANDA and an ugly lie !
You should refrain from disseminating that disinformation.
Secondly, inspite the fact that you write under an Armenian name (Sevan) nothing proves that you are indeed an Armenian. I invite you to disclose your full name so that anyone interested could check whether you are a real Armenian or an impostor !
Denis…with a name like yours you should hardly be accusing others of not being armenian.
Mine is a Jewish name What’s wrong with it?
Besides, I don’t have the habit of hiding my identity. I always sign my pieces with my real name and and surname.
Do I have to be Armenian in order to be accredited to emit a reserve?
The canard that Jews are behind the Armenian genocide is an Antisemitic one, invented by Muslim fundamentalists seeking to involve Jews in the Turkish-Armenian contentious.
Some Turks who wish to reconcile with Armenians and some Armenians who wish to reconcile with the Turks for whatever reason, propagate that canard so that the blame is shifted on Jews !
Each of these parties have their own motivation:
1- The Fundamentalist religious Turks, wish to discredit the actual Republic of Turkey by discrediting its predecessor, The Committe of Union and Progress, whose ruling elite, except its leaders, was coopted by the Republican regime. The easiest way to do this is to accuse the the CUP members of being Jews or Crypto-Jews. Thogh there were some influential Jews in the CUP movement, these were not involved in the Armenian issue. I invite those who try to impute such a crime on Jews to provide evidencing documents to that effect.
2- The Armenians who wish to find a short-cut exit from the stalemate in the political process, have all the interest to split the Turkish public opinion by inducing it to repudiate the CUP and its residues in the Kemalist Turkish Republic. In this respect they find the approach adopted by Islamist fundamentalists as explained above quite convenient. However, for “practical” reasons they refrain from adopting that position regarding the Jews’ responsibilities in the Armenian Genocide officially and publicly.
On the other hand, the Armenian establishment makes no move to belie or condemn the propagation of this Antisemitic canard. They should do so ! The sooner the better !
That is the sad truth.
p.s. I still have doubts on Sevan’s real identity. Why doesn’t he speak out loud and clear?
To Denis, (Addressing your call for Armenian support against Antisemitism)
You have your facts straight, and have a knowledgeable understanding of the situation on the Democratic front. But understand that Armenia has no reason to support any facet of Israel, or negative propaganda towards Israel because of the simple fact that Israel is not in support of the Armenian Genocide recognition. In fact, Israel has allied itself with Azerbaijan in support of reclaiming lands (Nagarno-Karabagh) falsely, and illegally handed over to the Azei regime.
Both ourt people have faced horrors. What the Jewish community doesn’t understand ( a majority, we still have Jewish supporters) is that by the Turkish government, being able to get away with the massacre of 1.5 million people, opened the doors to Hitler and his Holocaust of the Jews. Were the Armenian Genocide condemned, recognized, and prosecuted, there would have been no Holocaust. And for this parallel to be questioned, and not addressed, Armenians (atleast me) see no reason to help our Jewish counterparts, unless they start to support us open, and willingly.
I have to say this we Armenian have to understand that Jews are trying to not ad Turks to the list of their enemies. Just like us they have lots of enamies all aroun. What we realy need is unity which is very hard to find.as a believer in christ i will love Iarael nothink can change that and if we learn to love them God will bless us. Look what happend to any empiers who did evil against Israel.let us come together to built up Armenian for everything else is secondary. God bless you.
Oh my God, you actually believe this?
Ojalvo is a sephardim jew and my comments are deleted especially my comment on the high society should be added.
To Ojalvo My Father and my mother are armenian,all my ancestors are armenians we don2t m arry others for me it’s a sin to marry a non-armenian I have nothing to hide.You think that you are too intelligent.I send many comments but the administarator deleted them it’s not my fault and yes I support the so called Islamists in Turkey despite the fact that I am christian we have enough of the Sabbatean Kemal Ataturk and his dirty Kemalism
The fact that Israel sides with the Azeris in the Nagorno Karabakh dispute has nothing to do with the Armenian establishment’s of not condemning libelous canards imputing the onus of the Armenian genocide on the Ottoman Jews. You certainly know that for realpolitik purposes the Armenian government bestowed an honorary doctorate to the genocidal Ahmedinejad !!!
The relations between Armenia and Israel are one thing, and the relations between Armenians and Jews are something else.
Regarding Sevan,his remarks that marrying others than Armenians is a sin, sound quite racist. Personally, I have many Armenian friends and I can assure you that they are quite liberal and see no sin in marrying people from other nations. His very remark therefore makes me doubt on his real identity. I bet he is not Armenian ! He sounds more like an “Agent provocateur” of the Islamist fundamentalist ilk.
Dear Patrick B,
By inadvertance I addressed my comments destined to you, to Rootarmo.
Mr. Editor, Mr. Moderator,
I suggest you check the identities of your commenting readers, since some may most likely be using Armenian names in order to disseminate disinformation, hiding behind that identity.
You could easily spot these in case you review their opinions on a given period of time.
With all respect to above notes and comments…
Israel must recognize the truth of “Armenian Genocide”.
Armenians and Jewish people suffered and persecuted by none Jews and none Armenians ..it is time for us to understand and recognize the agony, and the pain of “Genocide” and “Holocaust”..,
Being born from Armenian mother and father it does not mean you are Armenian.
Neither knowing the language.
Armenians are Armenians by their heart and dedication
and not by their tongues.
Politics nothing to do with people.
Politicians are group of people try to change the unchangeable.
Earth poets are well know to write against politics.
Read the collection of poems “Politcs Play People Pay, Poets Proms Pledging Pray” in Amazon.
It is good to know what happening in the land of the free and home of the brave..
…From the mountains to the sea(Sevan)God Bless Armenia my home sweet home:)
Rootarmo I love u man because you have armenian blood in your veins.All Armenians will be united one day…I respect very much our Mother Church but I have a pagan belief about the Armenians.When an Armenian dies he/she goes to an Armenian heaven and joins the other Armenian souls.A Christian heaven doesn’t interest me.All our souls will be united in heaven.
I would prefer to burn in heaven thousand times with all my family and clan.My tongue could be cut off and also my head,my eyes goughed before dying and it would be a better ending for me rather to see my people assimilated and our beloved Armenia erased from the face of the earth.That are my sincere feelings and I have nothing to prove to nobody about Armenianess.I have done a lot for my people and think still that it’s not enough.The Armenians hanging in L.A,Paris,Boston or elsewhere can call me a bastard if they at least visit one time Armenia as an ordinary tourist.
My Armenianess is more valuable because I am from Istanbul.People including the most nationalistic parts of our D
Diaspora would better assimilate if they were in my place…We survived the fire and even today we are lions and can walk on the street with a smile on our face…
It’s very easy to speak about Armenian issues and Armenia even in Iran which Ojalvo calls as a ‘genocidal state’ which is completely erronous.I knew many Iranians and I only heard sympathetic words from them on our people.It’s hard to show your sympathy for Armenia in a hostile atmosphere.People can risk his/her life for it.We are the sons of Hrant Dink who was also a lion…
“I support the so called Islamists in Turkey despite the fact that I am christian…”
Can’t you guys tell when an Islamist is yanking your chain? This “sevan” character could hardly make his identity any clearer.
You are a great Armenian in Turkey and you are one of “the sons of Hrant Dink” why don’t
you raise your voice in Turkey and and tell your countrymen ” truth of Armenian Genocide”.. I am sure your civilized Turkish Government will help you to reach out to millions of Turks, who never heard of Genocide of their own Christian population, I recommend you send your great comments to “Today’s Zaman” newspaper……
Unlike Turkey we have freedom of speech and we do not have “penal code 301” this is why we are hearing your garages…..
Dear Grish I sent many comments to the Zaman newspaper but only a few were published.You know who owns this newspaper,they are the force behind the current government.You really don’t understand what I am saying…
The current government in Turkey is good for me for the Armenians and also for Armenia trust me brothers and sisters
Mr. Sevan, or whoever you really are,
I did not call Iran a genocidal state but said that Ahmedinejad was genocidal, and if you like “staticidal” as per his remarks of wiping out Israel from the map. Obviously he can not do this without wiping out the Jews living there.
While bestowing the honorary doctorate to the luminary in question, the University of Yerevan somehow disregarded that minor detail !!
I came across this page in searching for information about the role of Jews in the Young Turk movement and the alleged Jewish involvement in the slaughter of the Armenians. I happen to be of (New York) Jewish ethnicity myself, which helps stimulate my interest in such topics.
The first point I’ll make is that Ahmedinejad never said anything in any language that could be translated as threatening to “wipe Israel off the map”, in the violent sense of that English idiom. (Ironically, one can’t exactly “wipe Israel off the map” in the cartographer’s sense, since the Zionist state has never provided a map that shows its claimed borders!) And neither Ahmedinejad nor the Iranian state is genocidal in its treatment of minorities, while both Israel and Turkey are!
I don’t, however, think one should be calling on the U.S. Congress to label what any other governments have done as “genocide” until that Congress has applied that label to what the U.S. has done to the Native Americans, to the enslaved Africans, to the peoples of Southeast Asia and Central America, etc.. Otherwise, you’re just helping the U.S. rulers to prettify themselves by condemning the crimes of others, as they have done with the Nazi mass murders of Jews and others.
Agree with everything you say except Turkey being a “genocidal state” history prooves this wrong.
Sorry to be “late”,
I have to say, specialy to Mr.OJALVO, that, my grand father born in Anatolia in 1899 and refugiee in France, used to told us ( his friends or relatives), the same short sentence which synthesizes the Sevan’s long declaration.
By respect for Mrs.Günaysü, I wan’t cite that sentence. Even more, the risponsibility of a discrete oligarchy must not soil an entire community. You can read a very short remark on the condamnable behavior of some jews (named louts) in the book “Ailleurs, Hier, Autrement- le Génocide des Arméniens” published by “La Revue de la Shoah”
This is just an information. Everyone interested must know it and search to make his own opinion. It a matter of universal morality.
In fact, the upper class of Armenian community was greatly wealthy until the middle of the XIX century. One doesn’t have any explanation of its decline (for those who can read french or translate electronically):
Take these informations just for what they are…
Don’t be mistaken on fight.
I opened the link you gave.
There, I could not find any hint to what you suggest in your message.
So, I will suggest that you make a full quote from that book.
You don’t need to translate it. My French is adequate.
would you underline that part of my message.
I’ll send you the quote.
Generaly speaking, I have made my own small ‘biblio’ and I can always cite my references… or send copies by Air-mail.
I was drawn into useless polemics because of Sevan’s following libelous canard:
It’s an undeniable fact that Israel and Turkey are two twin Jewish states in the Middle East and even Muslim Turkish intellectuals recognize this fact.The Sabbateans and other Crypto Jews in Turkey founded the secular Republic of Turkey and by annihilating Christian subjects they became the kings and queens of the new Turkish Republic in all spheres like Business,Art,Military,Bureaucracy.
This is an ugly lie and a cheap defamation. Sevan’s subsequent assertions give full proof that he adopts the rhetoric of Moslem fundamentalists who wish to delegitimize the secular Turkish Republic by imputing on it a Jewish identity and by disseminating the lie that the Republic of Turkey is the fruit of a Jewish conspiracy.
The fact that you took Sevan’s rants as a referral, induced me to answer. However, from your message I couldn’t ascertain to which one of his lies you were referring.
I think that GOOD FAITH is quintessential if we are going to conduct a civilized dialogue.
Sevan’s rhetoric makes all efforts in this direction futile.
I sincerely invite the “accredited” Armenian instances to endorse or publicly repudiate Sevan’s above quoted allegations.
I see, in fact, you meant Sevan’s talk.
I check books and papers that I can retrieve and send you some interesting scanned papers or photographies.
A practical questions is : “where is the link to attach file to comment, on this site ?”
May I suggest you to create an Anonymous Mail Box to receive those files?
Give my 4 or 5 days to collect and scan.
You may send your photos and docs to my e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
All the best,
dear denis and sevan.i am a jewish scholar of armenian studies.while it is true that the israeli and american governments and establishments do not recognize the armenian genocide;the overwhelming majority of jews and armenians do fully believe in the horrific genocid in syria lebanones that befell their peoples.the exact same is true of the current armenian govt,and the establishments of armenians in syria,lebanon,jordan iraq,egypt and turkey who never support israel in the face of arab lies and vicious propaganda.that i can undeerstand as realpolitik on both sides.what is difficult to comprehend is ;why armeian scholars have never collectively sided with israel.yes,many times jewish scholars and intellectuals have always publicly supported the armeian cause as sevan has stated.
After reading what everyone had to say whether they are Armenians or not, is not the issue. Look on the bright side of everything. What happened in the past was a terrible crime against humanity. When a child commits a mistake against his brother the parent teaches that child to apologize to his brother. That was the model role of a parent in charge, but in that only happens to children. As for grown ups the rules of discipline do not comply!!! But, the day will come even though denying sounds easy to some, they will have to accept the facts and then it will be so ever more shamefull !!!!!!!
I can’t speak for Armenian intellectuals — but it is a possibility that they do not in fact agree with Israeli policies of today. And second, it goes beyond the “realpolitik” of the Armenian and Israeli governments. Organized American Jewry has opposed the term “genocide” for a very long time — and even now, after accepting it rather reluctantly, have yet to side with us on the recognition issue. The correct analogy would be the Armenian government’s respone to the Holocaust in trying to warm ties with Iran. Armenia and its Diaspora are not on an ACTIVE campaign to stop Holocaust recognition or affirmation, as are the Jews and the Israeli government. The comparison is bogus.
But if we’re talking about intellectuals — the greatest deniers in academia are Jewish — Heath Lowry, Bernard Lewis, etc.
(And I don’t want to get into how the Armenians have been treated in Israel…meanwhile the Jews in Armenia have probably enjoyed one of the most constant periods of peace ANYWHERE in the world).
I would hate to see a widening gap between Armenians and Jews. Both of your peoples suffered terrible massacres and mass executions on the hands of Ottoman Turks and German Nazis.
Once again, turks are coming out smart due to their 1000 year political diplomacy, whereas Armenians are falling into this trap built exclusively by turks. Their aim is to seperate Armenians from Jews. Do not fall into this useless claims that “Jews were responsible for the Genocide,” this is all the making of the Ottoman tuks and their German friends to weaken both Armenia and Israel.
It was the ottoman turks that committed the Genocide, and not the Jews.
Israel will come to recognize the Genocide.
Turkish killing machine will and shall end soon.
Turks caused innumerable deaths of innocent Greeks, Armenians, Albanians, Hungaryans, Bulgarians, Serbians, Austrians, Jews, Romanians and the list is too damn long.
Turks repeatedly call Armenians, Kurds and Hungarians as the three peoples who succumbed easily under turkish onslaught. Just last week a Hungarian national was beaten by three alleged “grey wolves” punks in Adana, calling the poor Hungarian a “pig,” a reference for his Christian belief, telling him to go back to Buda(an apparent reference to Budapest), and his girlfriend manhandled, almost raped. They sprayed the number 121,001, apparently calling the poor and helpless Hungarian as their victim #121,001. Such arrogance the world has never seen before.
Dear Mr. Bell,I would suggest-I never advise, or offer.Please get hold from an Armeian Library books by Prof.Richard g. Hovhannissian-has written a dozen or so re our-Armenian-recent history,i.e.,100/120 yrs ors o.One in 4 volumes, Republic of Armenia,then “Great Britain and the Armenian question’ then if you can read in French,or frinds Les Grads Puisance,L’empire ttoam et la Questionne Armenien’,Prof. Vahakn Dadrian’s ” Turkish Military Tribunal’ etc., these are where our-Armenian -history re-commences after 600 yrs of serfdom ,pretty much or worse than the slaves in America/Elsewhere…but…since our history is Ten times, twenty ties fold old than the the recent one, you will note that we have had kings ,we have been there on Armenian soil Whether present R.of Armenia and/0r the Western Armeian lands for millenia.Some “kind” turks here online do not ealize that Armenians HAD ALL THE RIGHT TO ASPIRE,STRUGGLE AND FIGHT FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE WHICH OCCURRED AFTER 600 YEARS OF being under ttoman rule and partially Persian,Russian as well.We are a nation (now Nation/State) that likle the Spanish people,after -wat similarity- 600 yrs of being conquered and ruled by North African khaliphates…got armed and the princes there united under Izabel La Catolica-who later decared herself Queen of Spain) drove the invader/Conquerers out OUT!!!!
SO ARMENIANS HAVE ,HAVE HAD ALL THE RIGHT TO DO JUST TODAY ON ARMENIAN H1 HOW ARMENIANS MUSTERED UP CLOUT FORMED AN ARMY WTH RUSSIAN TRAINED OFFICERS(WHAT ‘S WRONG WITH THAT?IF TURKISH ARMY IS BEING TRAIEND BY U.S. ONE? EH, THEN FOUGHT AT SARDARABAD AND HELD THE TURKISH ARMIES BACK AND DECLARED INDEPENDENCE,BEFORE THEY COULD COME INTO EASTERN ARMEIA..INDEED ,READ HIOSTORY THEN ATATURK WELL FIRBISHED WITH BRIOTISH ARMAMENT A T KARS CAME UPON NEWLY INDEPENDENT ARMENIA AND AND ON THE OTHER SIDE THE RD ARMIES,SO ARMENIANS PREFERRED TO GIVE IN TO THE LATTER PLEASE READ HISTORY..THSE TURKISHJ PEOPLE HERE THINK THEY KNOW THAT OR ELSE THEY STILL THINK THEY ARE OTTOMAN EMPIRES.MY FRIENDS BRITSH EMPIRES BECAME GREAT BRIATAIN THEM U.K… WHAT DOS THAT SUGGEST, GHANDI NCIELY COURTEOUSLY ASKED THEM OUT OF IDA..DR, MOSSADEQUE OF IRAN LIKEWISE ASKED THE BRITS OUT OF THE OIL RICH IRAN’S OILDFIELDS, PEOPLE WHO OWN THEIR LAND AND HAVE BEEN THERE ARE ENTITLED TO THAT.AM TYPONG FAST I CANNO TEACH HISTORY AND SIMIARITIES HERE.PLEASE FORGIVE MY BAD TYPING WHAT’S MORE AM CLOSE TO 80 AND FINGERS ARE NOT LONGER LIKE BEFORE..PLEASE GO TO LIBRARIES AND DO RESEARCXH THERE DEAR TURKISH INTELELCTUALS TOO.
when Petrol is finished in the Middle-Est, another Truth shall be born. I just hope than Armenia and Artsakh will be ready, I just hope… There are about 30 years left! I certainly will not see.
In response to FERHAT.
Jew;a person whose religion is Judaism;descendant of the ancient Hebrews.this is when people get them confused with the ancient Khazar’s converted to Judaism,a none Semitic Jew;(get into it is educational)they are not even welcomed in Palestine as you can see i did not say (Israel)also get into goggle a(the life of an American Jew in racist Marxist (Israel?)Written in 1985 by Jack Bernstein read this article it will enlighten you.
The Human Genographic Project has debunked the myth that millions upon millions of Jews are really the offspring of Khazars who converted to Judaism. Through the science of genetic mapping we now know that over 90% of Jews have genetic markers which prove that their ancestry descends from the ancient middle east. The mythology that the Jews of the modern world are really the offspring of people from the grasslands of eastern Asia developed at a time before genetic mapping was available. Yes, some Khazars did convert to Judaism, just as did some Persians, some Mongols, some Romans, some Assyrians and various other people over thousands of years. However, these few cases of occasional conversions of non-members of the Hebrew tribes has not had a significant effect on the genetic blueprint of the Jewish people. The “modern jews have nothing to do with the middle east; they are all really Khazars” myth is the product of wishful thinking on the part of certain middle eastern politicians and a lack of understanding about genetic mapping.
Though it is not of my incumbency-am not a historian-to dwell upon upon Ms Gunaysu ´s above article,I believe I have the right to mention that ,even in todays´ (X) country in the Middle East,there are plenty of Jews,notwithstanding arab-Palestinian animosity towards Israel.Latter issue is a territorial subject matter,not associated directly with Jewry dislocations from Spain (the Sefardits) to the ottoman-then-Empire, now reduced to Republic of Turkey, with some 20 million kurds and other ethnic ´Millets¨ therein..
For it is one thing to narraate of mass re-location of people from one area to another, another the ¨generosity¨ of admitting sefardits ,in this case in 1492 into Constantinople-note , not into the interiors of the country. Truks, then knew that the Jews were/are a hard working and rather intelligent people and could help the Empire.
Same occured when Shah Abbas of Imperial Iran relocated Armenians e-mass from their ancestral land ,Southern Eastern armenia to Isfahjan-Julfa,to benefit from their craftsmanship etc.Therefore , if things >HAVE changed ,as of Jews establishing their independent state Israel after 2000 yrs of dispersions,one must see things in the light of contemporary history. History in fact is being made in our days too.Witness southern Sudan,Kosovo, S.Ossetia, Abkhazia, Nagornyi Karabagh and other such.
What transpired centuries ago is indeed history to be studied, but with the slightest comparison to present state of affairs, makes one wonder if latest histoical changes are <REAL???
Finally, while I appreciate what Ms. Gunaysu and her colleagues refer to and mention as for IN THE PAST, I have wished to point out the present as well.
Thanks for the article Ms. Gunaysu, I didn’t know about this, now I know, thanks.
I have just stumbled on this article & have read the comments.
If Sevan is still there,could you please evaluate the Turkey situation after that AK party has come to power?
I do not see any change regarding the denial of the Armenian Genocide nor a subject about land return,reparations to all of our losses whether human,physical,material or psychological…
As well in case if you are unaware,please read Ms. Gunaysu’s recent article:
Gunaysu: The Reign of Lies in Turkey
Dear Gunaysu…Are you our Female Mandela…!!!
Or you want to be…
Or we want You To Be…!
We need ‘Armenian Mandela’
As every poet wished to breathe with
Drink wine and gift winefull words…
Exchanging thoughts…To clear all the miseries
That surrounded Noble Populace since the ‘Mezh Yegern’
We need Real Armenian Mandela…
With Thee innocent smile
To smile with our enemies
And clear their denial…lies…
Clear their genetic guilt
We need a Mandela…
Let us pray for one
Who will never be hubris…Tyrant
Who possess wealth in his genes
As he arrive to sit on our goldless chair
We need a Mandela
To-Be our new Gomidas
To create magic and heal our injuries
And care for our ‘wealthy-brains’
That seems will stay ungraved like genocided skulls…!
What are you smoking send me some
Turkish cowboy john the vain,the chiristian & muslim,with Greek & Armenian blood in his veins, parrot repetition again?Be creative.Use your Armenian blood to create.Go & comment on:Gunaysu: The Reign of Lies in Turkey from which you have come here…
Blackmailing is a career in Turkey, because of a basic neccessity risen from their history which they represent so with greatness. I don’t know if inside their heads Turkey is a greate country, but for sure the image of greatness is essential to Ottoman empire of the past and the present. the Turkish government will lie for the last secrete in their closet of skelletones to keep their sultanic errigance look as if they deserve the lands they took and still live on.
How can they undo all that brainwashed generations whose support for turkey is fueled by religion, Kemalism, Turanism, and other words they use to try expanding their borders beyond their geographical means. The Turkish nationalism is brainwashed and deliberate, which is equivalent to brainwashed suicide bombers in the neighboring countries.
After all the whole truth comes to surface, even if they were wrong some will know why ASALA rained terror on the Turkish deplomates in the 70’s and the 80’s. They were the direct decendants of the Armenians who not only lost their lives in the hands of Turks and Kurds in WWI, but their memory has since been insulted by the denialist thugs who consider themselves leaders. The genocide alone should not be the only cause of Armenian call for justice, it should be the total of more than 100 years of crimes of secrecy, political lies, blackmailings, and in addition crimes against all Christians such as Greeks and handling the truth with the same inslut that the self titled greate Turkish nation must be held accountable for.
The more these government keeps on spreading it’s poisonous tenticles around the world to distort the representation of truth, the more their panic and the bigger teir lies are.
Անհերքելի փաստ է, որ Իսրայելը եւ Թուրքիան Մերձավոր Արեւելքում երկու երկվորյակ հրեա պետություններ են, եւ նույնիսկ մահմեդական թուրք մտավորականները ճանաչում են այդ փաստը: Թուրքիայում Սաբբատեանները եւ այլ քրտթող հրեաներ հիմնեցին Թուրքիայի աշխարհիկ հանրապետությունը եւ քրիստոնյա առարկաները բնաջնջելով, նրանք դարձան թագաւորներ եւ նոր թուրքական հանրապետության թագուհիները բիզնեսի, արվեստի, ռազմական, բյուրոկրատիայի բոլոր բնագավառներում:
Did the Kemalists pressure the Jews in Turkey any more than they pressured everyone else? Mr. Bali may have represented the Kemalist policies towards the jews accurately, but has he compared it to the policies at large?
I believe every word expressed in this article. I do because Turkey is a country founded on the corps of its murdered indigenous Christian natives. Turks are non-native invaders and occupiers of the lands they live in. There is practically nothing in Turkey that is Turkish in its origin. It is an artificial state with no Turkish history of civilization, other than occupation and destruction, ruled by dictators and military junta.
Turkey is a fragile country due to its artificial formation and it can survive only through the constant intimidation of its non-Turkish citizens since only they are the true owners of this land. The non-Turkish, non-Muslims in particular, will always be viewed with suspicion and considered as threats to the survival of this artificial state. Unlike a legitimate owner of a property, when a thief steals something he constantly has to be on guard to protect his stolen property.
I am curious to know if all the facts presented in this article are known in the outside world, in the United States and Europe in particular, and what has the Armenian leadership done to expose them to the world.