STEPANAKERT, NKR—Armenian serviceman Karen Hovhannisyan was killed on Aug. 12 during shelling by Azerbaijani forces that targeted his military unit. Between Aug. 11-12, Azerbaijan violated the ceasefire more than 170 times, firing more than 2,600 shots, according to a statement released by the Nagorno Karabagh Republic (NKR) Defense Ministry.
Armenia’s Defense Ministry also released a statement voicing concern over Azerbaijan’s repeat attempts to destabilize the region and called for a peaceful resolution of the Karabagh conflict.
“Since the closing of the European Games [held in Baku from June 12-28], Azerbaijan’s military and political leadership have continuously tried to destabilize the situation on the Armenia-Azerbaijan border and in the area controlled by the NKR Army,” read part of the statement. The Defense Ministry also stressed the importance of maintaining the ceasefire along the line of contact and called for an investigation into the ceasefire violations. “There needs to exist an atmosphere of mutual trust so that an international investigation of the ceasefire can take place,” read the statement.
On Aug. 13,NKR President Bako Sahakyan signed a presidential decree posthumously awarding Hovhannisyan with the “For Service in Battle” medal for bravery shown during the defense of the NKR border.
According to a Defense Ministry statement issued last week, Azerbaijan violated the ceasefire on the line of contact about 1,100 times from July 26 to Aug. 1. During that time, more than 17,000 shots were fired at Armenian servicemen by way of rifle and artillery weaponry, including mortar, rocket-propelled grenade, and heavy machine gun. Frontline forces of the NKR Defense Army suppressed these attacks.
Thanks to Putin’s 4 billion dollars weapon aid to corrupted oil Sheikhdom boss Aliyev! I know blind Russian lovers will be excited after this note in AW and blame Israeli made sniper bullets!
Not only Israeli sniper rifles and bullets also American and British training and weapons. Without Putin and his Russia not even a million of your kind would be able to save Armenia from Turkic and Islamic hordes. Real Armenians are Russophiles. Real Armenians seek ways to deepen Armenian-Russian friendship. Enemies of Armenia try to spread anti-Russian hysteria.
GB,
If rumors about Russia’s sale, at favorable for Armenians price, of newest awe-inspiring ballistic missile systems “Iskander-M” materialize and if AW chooses to post it on these pages, I should like to see that you at least observe the balance, so to speak, in your ungrounded remarks and hate speech addressed to everyone who understands that at this critical point of Armenia’s history and in her vulnerable geopolitical environment, there is no alternative for Armenia but to be in a military alliance with Russia. Neither jilting, uncaring America nor snobbish Europe will come to our rescue if we’re attacked by Turkic tribes from the east and south-west. Enough already…
Norserunt,
“Without Putin and his Russia not even a million of your kind would be able to save Armenia from Turkic and Islamic hordes.”
Well, your kind (Putin and his Russia) is certainly not doing anything to defend Armenia against persistent Islamic Turkbaijani terrorist attacks.
“Real Armenians are Russophiles.”
That’s equally as absurd as saying that real Armenians are Turkophiles.
“Enemies of Armenia try to spread anti-Russian hysteria.”
Yes, that’s exactly what the agents from the Kremlin claim. On the other hand, the Western agents claim that “Enemies of Armenia try to spread anti-Western hysteria.” Anyway, both sides are equally full of crap.
“Real Armenians seek ways to deepen Armenian-Russian friendship.”
Well, how can Russia possibly be a true friend to Armenia by going behind its back and supplying four billion dollars worth of military weapons to Armenia’s mortal enemy (Azerbaijan) who wishes to completely destroy Armenia? That certainly doesn’t sound like friendship.
“Real Armenians are Russophiles.”
Does this mean we should blindly agree with every action taken by mother Russia? Does this mean we should celebrate the billions in weapons Russia is selling to Azerbaijan? Russia is making money off of an anti-Armenian conflict. I suppose what’s good for Russia is good for Armenia. Right?
Are weapons being sold to the Azeris happening with Putin’s approval?
Also note that the heavy weaponry, which you need in a full scale invasion of Artsakh (and Armenia, you know they want more than Artsakh), tanks, planes and helicopters, are all Russian.
And you know Russia will be selling more weapons to the Azeris in the coming years.
I and others have no problems wanting a stronger pro-Armenian Russo-Armenian alliance. But selling weapons to the Azeris makes one question what the ultimate intentions are.
It is time that the world powers take action against the Azerbaijan Government on the snipping and killing Armenian Artsakh Soldiers month after month. Dosent the World Powers know that the Artsakh Autonomous Region is Historic Armenia lands that the Soviets under Stalin illegally gave to the Georgian Nation. Stalin himself was a Georgian and not one nation is backing up Armenia on this Autonomous Armenian Region.
The world powers that influence arbitration that affects the territorial integrity of Armenia, and Artzakh (also known as Karabakh), to often approach the problem with either indifference, or ignorance. To often, they haven’t done their homework about the Armenian Highlands — without a careful examination of the political and historical landscape of the region. Their recommendations fail to appreciate that security zones around Artzakh are strategically vital, payed for by Armenian valor, and historically a part of the Armenian Highlands. Their interest in Azeri petro-oil wealth, and Turkish NATO influence sometimes proves counterproductive to obtaining an ethical arbitration for Artzakh.
Normally after an autopsy from a killed person, forensic investigators easily can determine, where the bullet made, and the origin of sniper type weaponry. So far Armenian authorities are extremely quiet and do not want to reveal the truth publicly.
What exactly are you suggesting? That it wasn’t an Azeri sniper?
Are you suggesting a coverup of fratricide? If so, those events are made public and the defense ministry has been addressing such internal issues.
Azeri snipping has going on for years. It’s a reality. Are you suggesting otherwise?
The “bullet” is not the issue, the issue is your Russophobic attitude. The bullet may very well be Russian. Azeris have the petrodollars to but anything they want from whoever they wish. We Armenians on the other hand don’t have that luxury, which is why are thankful that the Russian Bear gives us our modern weapons systems practically for free. As Norserunt alluded, the ONLY reason why we have an Armenia today and the ONLY reason why the south Caucasus has hosted a large Armenian population during the past two hundreds years is the Russian factor. I suggest you people put a stop to your Qaj Nazar fantasies. Without Russia not even a million of our big talking Russophobes would be able to save Armenia from Turks, Azeris and Wahhabist Muslims. Real Armenian patriots recognize all this and they do their best to maintain Armenia’s strategic alliance with Russia.
“Azeris have the petrodollars to buy anything they want from whoever they wish.”
As usual, the same absurd excuse delivered by Russian nationalists to justify Moscow’s four billion dollar supply of military arms to Armenia’s mortal enemy (Azerbaijan) who dreams about wiping out the entire Armenian populations of Armenia and Artsakh.
In regard to the “Russian Bear” giving military arms to Armenia at a very low price, this is only under the condition that Armenia obeys the orders of mafia kingpin Putin at all times; otherwise, the prices of those military arms will be jacked up to the regular price which Armenia obviously can’t afford. Again, this is not the definition of friendship; this is the definition of Russia exploiting Armenia.
Contrary to the absurdities being preached by the Russian nationalists in regard to Russia’s devotion to protect Armenia, it has never once protected Armenia from Azerbaijan’s persistent terrorist attacks. Furthermore, Russia would have no problem with the Azerbaijanis conquering Artsakh (which is part of Armenia). And, despite the fact that Russia’s military presence on Armenia’s soil does indeed prevent any kind of terrorist attack by Turkey, the Russian military is certainly not on Armenia’s soil to protect the citizens of Armenia; it’s on Armenia’s soil to protect Moscow’s interests. Moscow does not view this arrangement as “Russia protecting Armenia.” It views this arrangement as “Russia protecting its southern border.”
In terms of “Armenia’s strategic alliance with Russia,” the Republic of Armenia has done its very best to maintain this alliance. Never once has Armenia betrayed Russia. On the other hand, Russia continuously betrays Armenia, and attempts to control it in every possible way. This is not how a strategic alliance is supposed to work.
“Yerevanian”
Russians keep Turks at bay which allows Armenians to easily handle Azeris. Russians sell arms to oil rich Azeris at market prices but they give our impoverished Armenia modern arms for free. Do you have any self respect? What else do you want from these people? Do you want Russians to also give all Armenians an all expenses paid vacation to Disney Land as well? Do you have any national pride? Russians don’t have to force Armenians into an alliance with Russia because real Armenians automatically seek an alliance with the Russian bear. Without Russia, Armenia wont last long in the south Caucasus. Armenian Russophobes are either idiots or traitors.
In this thread: “Russia continuously betrays Armenia”.
In the thread “Paylan to File Complaint against Grey Wolves Leader for Anti-Armenian Hate Speech” (http://armenianweekly.com/2015/07/10/paylan-vs-adiguzel/): “OSCE Minsk group’s Russian representative […] lectures the Armenian side about what they must surrender”.
Nice shaking of the air. But when pushed to the wall to produce evidence to support his accusations, poster ‘Yerevanian’ only produces rigmarole.
Yawn-inducing poster…
Norserunt,
You definitely have an enormously low level of self-respect and pride to end up writing these kinds of horribly foolish posts.
As always, you and your Russian nationalist compatriots continuously give the same silly explanation of “Without Russia, Armenia won’t last long in the south Caucasus” in order to justify Russia’s abusive treatment of Armenia.
“Russians keep Turks at bay which allows Armenians to easily handle Azeris.”
Actually, those Azeri terrorists (who are so heavily armed with Russian military weapons) are murdering Armenian soldiers on an almost weekly basis. This is certainly not the definition of easily handling the Azeris. Furthermore, it’s the obligation of Russia to defend Armenia against not only a Turkish attack, but any kind of foreign attack; but yet, the Russians are doing absolutely nothing to defend Armenia against Azeri terrorist attacks.
In terms of Russia giving modern arms to Armenia at very low prices (just to be at an equal level with Azerbaijan) in exchange for allowing Russia to fully control it, is certainly not the definition of a true alliance; again, that’s the definition of exploitation.
“Do you want Russians to also give all Armenians an all expenses paid vacation to Disneyland as well.” Actually, I’ve never liked Disneyland. But anyway, in answering your question, what I and my fellow Armenians want is for Armenia to be treated respectfully and loyally by its “ally” of Russia. Why is that so much to ask for? This is what a true alliance is supposed to be about.
John,
It’s always a pleasure to see how enraged you become whenever I speak out against your beloved Russia’s abusive treatment of Armenia.
In terms of attempting to push me to the wall with your Kremlin propaganda nonsense, you have failed miserably in that department. Hey, you’re just not capable of producing anything to counter all of my evidence from my previous posts.
So, now all of a sudden, my posts make you yawn? And exactly how’s that possible when it happens to actually be you who replies to more of my posts than other people’s posts?
Because, hey, all you can do is engage in rigmarole, present false accusations, fail to support them with evidence as in the cases above, and dishonorably label your opponents. Certainly not a demonstration of an intelligent mind. Very untypical for most Armenians. With time, it becomes yawn-inducing…
You are indeed a huge liar. You claim that my posts make you yawn, but yet, you respond to more of my posts than you do to other people’s posts.
And again, besides delivering so much cheap rigmarole in a desperate attempt to exclude Russia from any kind of wrongdoing against Armenia (which is so very typical of Russian nationalists), you haven’t produced one single thing to counter all my evidence from my previous posts.
“The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on…” A saying.
I’ve actually had several pet dogs up to now, and I can honestly say that the amount of barking they did, wasn’t even half as much as all the barking being done by the Russian nationalists on here.
Let’s not forget the Israeli connection. On the one hand Israel buys Azeri oil and in return sells weaponry to Aliyev at supposed discount prices. Armenia is surrounded by scoundrels near and far.
Random
I like to see an independent Armenian investigation, who will be reliable about the hidden truth of Axeri sniper weaponry, and their suppliers!
GB, we already know who’s supplying the Azeris. It also includes Ukraine I believe.
Only punitive response would deter the Azeris from repeating these criminal acts. World powers have no interest in the rights or wrongs of actions by other countries and will not interfere unless it is in their interest to do so. We should not wait for others to solve out problems. Armenians from all over the world should contribute to buy the best defensive weapons to protect our homeland and fellow Armenians.
“The Ministry also stressed the importance of maintaining the ceasefire along the line of contact and called for an investigation into the ceasefire violations.”
Exactly how is a ceasefire supposed to be maintained along the line of contact when Azerbaijani terrorists are persistently firing at Armenian soldiers by way of machine gun and rocket-propelled grenade? As for investigating the enormous ceasefire violations committed by the Azerbaijanis, the OSCE Minsk Group (U.S., Russia, France) have been totally ignoring all of this, and are instead defending the terrorist state of Azerbaijan in every possible way. The OSCE representatives of these three countries, whose jobs consist of emphasizing peace and justice in this particular conflict, have neither shown the slightest bit of concern for the human rights of the Artsakh Armenians, nor have they shown the slightest bit of concern for those precious Armenian soldiers who are being murdered as a result of Azerbaijani terrorist attacks. As usual, the Armenian people are constantly being denied the justice that’s owed to them.
Rest in Peace brave son of the Armenian Nation.
If it weren’t men and women like you who actually defend our homeland with their lives, there would be no homeland for the columnists to endless criticize from their safe, air-conditioned offices somewhere in America.
Harutik,
That was a crap analytical explanation, from a faithful borsch lover.
When was the last time, Putin fired Iskandar missiles toward Turkic tribes..
If you believe that Russian made bullet killed our faithful soldiers, then they have a full control over their clients weaponry system. So why people like yourself spreading and blaming Israeli or British made snipery weapons killing our soldiers on border lines.
Right now Putin needs Axerbaijani money more than Armenia. Cash starving Russian economy created by “Russian bear” needs petrodollars from Axeri dictator and more faithful starving poor Armenians toward “mother Russia”
KGB Putin will sale Armenia to Turkic herds with a cheap bargain price…Armenia must gain their political strength and power without relying on Russia or American favoritism.. none of them will work for us.
Right now our number one enemy of Armenian people are those corrupted MPs inside Armenia, who are willing to sale their over sized underwear, for few extra Rubles. I bet they don’t even mention if an Armenian soldier was killed in Artsakh as much as we do behind in our old laptop in a “safe comfortable air conditioned offices”
All those hurling invectives at Russia and those of us who can tell the difference between rosy fantasy and harsh reality, can help make their case against Russia by providing the names of countries that can replace Russia, warts an all, as the strategic partner of RoA, if Russia decides to up and leave South Caucasus.
The named country will be expected to defend Armenia against an inevitable invasion by NATO member Turkey, with no Russia in Armenia.
To help you select a suitable country, I will provide this quiz, as a public service, of a real life threat of invasion that Armenia faced a short while ago.
Some background:
In 1993, as Artsakh’s heroic military had rolled back Turkbaijani invaders and was chasing them towards Baku, genocidal, criminal State of Turkey, alarmed that their Turkic kin were about to go under, massed an invasion army at the border of RoA.
The plan was to cut through Southern RoA and race to Baku, possibly then swinging North and attacking northwards into Artsakh.
One entity warned the Turks with WW3 if they crossed the RoA border, after which Turks saw the light, and ran back to their barracks.
That entity was:
1)NATO.
2)United States.
3)Islamic Republic of Iran.
4)France.
5)UK.
6)Next door neighbor Georgia.
7)Zimbabwe.
8)None of the above.
And, this should be common knowledge, but we will list them anyway:
a)Turkey’s standing army is 500,000+ men.
b)Turkey has more men in uniform than the entire fighting age male population of RoA+NKR.
c) In a general mobilization, Turkey can draft several million young men: more men in uniform than the entire population of RoA+NKR.
Again: assuming Russian military leaves RoA, please give us specific details of how you propose to defend Armenia’s Western border against the inevitable mass invasion by Turkey. (..while Azerbaijan simultaneously attacking from the East, forcing Armenians to fight a hopeless two-front war)
And the brave men sitting in East Hollywood or elsewhere in Armenian Diaspora are kindly invited to go to the border of RoA and Turkey and volunteer for border guard duty, while the evil Russian military evacuates the 102nd military base in Guymri.
“Assuming Russian military leaves RoA.”
That’s a rather silly statement. Why would Russia decide to pull its military out of Armenia when it happens to be right next to the vital Middle East, and more importantly, right next to Turkey (NATO’s Middle East headquarters). Russia has no plans whatsoever to leave Armenia. In fact, even if Armenia were to request that Russia leaves its soil, it would never leave.
In regard to the Artsakh section of your “quiz,” you forgot to mention how the Russians caused the Armenian side’s two defeats in the Karabagh War (Shahumian and Mardakert).
And “Yerevanian” rather conveniently forgets to mention that it was the “Politburo” at the time that was trying to preserve the “Soviet Union” by assisting Azeris. “Yerevanian” seems also incapable of realizing that Armenians began winning the war only when the Soviet Union came to an end by late 1991 and a new political reality materialized in the Russian Kremlin.
Russians and Armenians are natural friends and allies. This alliance and friendship has to be further developed.
And Norserunt is again foolishly refusing to recognize the fact that the Russian Kremlin is assisting the terrorist state of Azerbaijan by supplying them with four billion dollars worth of military arms (which, of course, is for the purpose of killing Armenians) as well as never once condemning the Azeris for their terrorist attacks against Armenia and Artsakh.
Norserunt also refuses to recognize the fact that the Armenians won the Karabagh War, most certainly not because of the criminal Russian Kremlin organization, but because of the fact that those Armenian soldiers happened to have so much more heart and shrewdness than the larger and much more heavily armed Azerbaijani military.
In terms of Russia and Armenia being natural friends and allies, it’s been Armenia who’s been the true friend and ally, as opposed to Russia who’s been abusive and disloyal towards Armenia.
No Armenian I know denies the security Russia provides Armenia. It is an unfortunate necessity that Armenia cannot defend itself alone. I partly blame the callous and cynical attitude of the west for that. Its they who allow turkey to act like the rabid dog that it is. But at the same time there is a reason that people are leaving Armenia in droves, since independence. Corruption of the government and lack of opportunity plays a large part. I’m thankful that the Russian presence is in Armenia but clearly the oligarchal system needs to change and a new government needs to make deals with Russia with the best interests of the people in mind and not their pocketbooks. Otherwise there will soon be no Armenia this way either if things remain as they are.
GB,
Russian small arms are the most wide-spread in the world. Had you not been intellectually blind and/or Russophobic you would have noticed that from Afghanistan to Chechnya to eastern Ukraine Russian troops have also died from Russian made arms. The point is Baku has the money to buy what it wants from wherever it wants. We Armenians don’t have that luxury. Get it? Therefore, thank God for Mother Russia.
I feel like I am addressing a child when I remind the reader that Iskander ballistic missile systems are meant to deter Turkish aggression. Their use would signal a total war, perhaps even a world war. Do you understand or are you here to only to spread disinformation? I feel like I am talking to an ignoramus when I remind the reader that Russians and Turks have fought about two dozen major battles in the past two hundreds – all of which were won by the Russian side, victories which allowed the existence of an Armenian nation/people in a territory that for a thousand years have been saturated by Turkic/Islamic tribes.
Like Norserunt said Armenian Russophobes are either idiots or traitors. No other explanation.
{Armenia must gain their political strength and power without relying on Russia or American favoritism.}
Yes, and until Armenia gains her political strength and power without relying on Russian or American favoritism, the Republic will be crossed over many times by Turkic armies employing scorched earth tactics and, in their best Turkic traditions, perpetrating the first genocide of the 21st century effectively putting an end on the existence of the Armenian nation.
{Right now our number one enemy are those corrupted MPs inside Armenia.}
Yes, as soon as we get rid of these number one evil uncles, we can catch a break and bustle the Russians out because the major evil group will have been gotten rid of at the time when we show the Russians the door.
For those disillusioned, divorced from reality people making scurrilous attacks ad nauseum on Armenia’s security guarantor, I will in turn provide a quiz, also as a public service, of an example of a ‘strategic alliance’ in action that our neighbor Georgia faced a short while ago.
In 2008, Georgia got involved in an armed conflict known as the Russo-Georgian War. Her one and only strategic ally immediately flew to help in order to rescue Georgia from total destruction. That strategic ally was:
1) Germany
2) Russia
3) NATO
4) Armenia
5) Islamic Republic of Iran
6) Turkey
7) Burundi
8) None of the above
P.S. As far as I know, borsch (or borscht) is a soup of Ukrainian origin.
Harutic,
You are the child of you master, named, KGB PUTIN, who is brain washing people like “little Harut” on daily bases through his daily briefing ….. as long as people like your mentality govern Armenia, then there is no hope that Armenian politicians will gain their maturity in our competitive political wold of today, but remain slave to their masters, just like during Roman and Persian Empire when they control our destiny and made Armenia Eastern and Western Armenia.. shame on you!
John,
seems to me, that you an extra ordinary B.S. talents, for AW readers like little Harutic!
If you only could, intellectually I mean, you’d understand that the quiz had an underpinning. Namely, while you hurl non-stop invectives at Armenia’s security guarantor, another superpower back in 2008 outrightly jilted her strategic ally Georgia when the country got involved in an armed conflict. That superpower, which I still hope you’d detect among the countries in the quiz or beyond, didn’t lift a finger to shield Georgia. If you could leave your biases aside and compare how two great powers handled threats to their smaller strategic allies, you’d understand what many posters here mean. Give it a try…
“That superpower, which I still hope you’d detect among the countries in the quiz or beyond, didn’t lift a finger to shield Georgia.”
The US had made no guarantees or promises to go to war with Russia over Georgia. In fact the US was caught off guard because Georgia did not tell them that they were going to take military action. They planned it in secret and it was a surprise.
And nobody expected the US to intervene. There were no promises of commitments of American troops.
And none is expected nor promised by the US and EU towards Armenia. Nobody is arguing that the US and EU can physically promise Armenia’s security.
The issue is, how far can we trust the Russians? When they sell weapons to the Azeris, they’re sending mixed signals to the citizens of Armenia.
And since neither Russia nor Armenia has officially recognized Artsakh as an independent state, Artsakh is in limbo. It is a chess piece that Russia could give away if it fits their geopolitical interests. It is a precarious situation with no clear resolution.
Russia may be the guarantor of security but the other side of the coin is that Russia controls the situation. As has been made ample clear, Armenia would be nowhere without Russian weapons, provided at cost. No matter how brave the Armenian soldiers are, they can’t fight without Russian hardware. This gives Russia control over Armenia and Azerbaijan.
The only way I would praise Russia to no end would if they stopped selling to the Azerbaijan and put that country under arms international arms embargo for making genocidal threats towards us.
If nobody is arguing that the US can physically promise Armenia’s security, then nobody has the right to incessantly badmouth Armenia’s national security need in receiving Russia’s protection. Period.
As for the US involvement—or non-involvement, rather—in the Russo-Georgian War of 2008, nobody is saying that “the US had made guarantees or promises to go to war over Georgia”. The US very rarely goes to war over a third country and whenever it does, it means there is a profit involved.
There were, indeed, no promises of commitments of American troops to Georgia, but with signing of “The U.S.-Georgia Charter on Strategic Partnership” before the Russo-Georgian War, the US has (a)recognized Georgia as a strategic partner; (b)contributed to the outbreak of war between Russia and Georgia in August 2008, and (c)the subsequent lobbying by the US to offer NATO’s Membership Action Plan to Georgia during the summit in April 2008, only threw oil on the fire. And, I guess, “The Georgia Train and Equip Program”, aimed at increasing the capabilities of the Georgian armed forces that lasted for almost 2 years and cost American taxpayers approx. 65 mln USD, was just a cakewalk into the beautiful Georgian terrain? And, I guess, the US military assistance to Georgia through “The Georgia Sustainment and Stability Operations Program”, which followed it, was another cakewalk into Georgia’s beautiful mountainous landscape?
{The US was caught off guard because Georgia did not tell them that they were going to take military action. They planned it in secret and it was a surprise.}
In secret? Really? I guess several hundred US Army Special Forces soldiers and advisors—all slept like logs just months before Georgia’s major military action, while the powerful US satellite and electronic intelligence—all went out of whack. A-ah, poor lamb US… When small bands of terrorists wander around, the US is capable of tracing them. But when divisions of a national army are amassed on the border of an international hot spot, in South Ossetia, and then the military action takes whole six days, the US, as it turns out, “was caught off guard”. Nice.
Even IF the US “was caught off guard”, which only idiots would believe, the fact remains that the US did nothing to try to defend its strategic ally Georgia. I mean, nothing. The Bush administration decided against any type of response (not necessarily going to war against Russia, but any other type of response) so as to not provoke a conflict with the Kremlin. As a humiliating gesture, the US sent humanitarian aid to Georgia on a military aircraft. No comment.
So much for America’s honoring her “strategic partnership” with her smaller allies.
Random, although you still have very little understanding of geopolitics and Russo-Armenian relations, you are slowly getting the big picture. Yes, Russia does control the situation in the south Caucasus, as it should. Now, I suggest you start thinking of ways to improve Russian-Armenian relations – instead of spreading Russophobia on behalf of Western and Turkish interests.
Excerpt from “The United States-Georgia Charter on Strategic Partnership”:
“[…] The United States of America and Georgia:
[…] Affirm the importance of our relationship as FRIENDS and STRATEGIC PARTNERS (capitalization mine).
[…] Support for each other’s sovereignty, independence, TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY and INVIOLABILITY OF BORDERS (capitalization mine) constitutes the foundation of our bilateral relations.”
No comments…
“Random, although you still have very little understanding of geopolitics and Russo-Armenian relations, you are slowly getting the big picture. Yes, Russia does control the situation in the south Caucasus, as it should.”
Are you suggesting that Armenia should be under Russia’s control?
I’ve seen the big picture for a long time. When I saw Russia selling weapons to both Armenia and the Azeris, then it became clear that Russia was playing both sides for her own benefit.
“Now, I suggest you start thinking of ways to improve Russian-Armenian relations”
And how am I supposed to do this? Please explain.
john,
What does that prove? You simply cut and pasted some very short fragments of an agreement. But they don’t make things clear how the US is obligated to support Georgia. It’s hard to tell what specific actions the US has promised Georgia. And it’s what’s in the rest of the agreement that matters.
Are you saying that agreement you’re referring to promised US military action in support of Georgia?
Besides. Georgia is not in NATO. Any US-Georgian agreement would not have been on par with the support NATO members would have gotten to begin with.
“Support for each other’s sovereignty, …”
Does this mean Georgia would have sent their army if the US was attacked? I doubt it. “Support” can mean anything.
“the fact remains that the US did nothing to try to defend its strategic ally Georgia. I mean, nothing. ”
The US Air Force did airlift 2000 Georgian soldiers serving in Afghanistan back to Georgia a few days into the war. Not much but still some sort of action in support of Georgia.
This proves, in case you didn’t notice or made as if you didn’t notice, that Georgia was officially proclaimed as “friend” and “strategic partner” of the United States based on a bilateral agreement signed by both governments.
This proves that when a country views another country as a “strategic partner” (or “strategic ally”) and makes a pledge to “support territorial integrity and inviolability of borders” of that country, it must honor its pledge. If no US military action was specifically mentioned in the agreement, it doesn’t mean, as I hope you understand, that the US couldn’t employ many, many other, non-military, means, namely: political, diplomatic, economic, financial, etc. at her possession to support and try to reinstate Georgia’s territorial integrity and inviolability of borders. Besides, “support” may also mean “military support”, don’t you think? How did it happen that military support was given to Georgia as a non-member state of NATO? Clearly, “The Georgia Train and Equip Program” and “The Georgia Sustainment and Stability Operations Program” both were military programs. Why, then, the US extended military support programs to a non-member state during the peacetime, but chose to put tail between legs during and after the wartime?
Whatever the reasons were (and I don’t expect you to answer my question), the fact remains that the US did nothing to support sovereignty, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders of her friend and strategic ally, in violation of the pledge it had made in a bilateral agreement.
{Does this mean Georgia would have sent their army if the US was attacked?}
And
{The US Air Force did airlift Georgian soldiers serving in Afghanistan back to Georgia a few days into the war.}
What??
This is not the first time you try to insult our intelligence, Random. Think things through next time or else you’ll risk to completely discrediting yourself as a serious debater.
Two quizzes in a row? What’s going on here folks? It seems that our Russian nationalist guests are becoming more and more desperate in their failed attempt to persuade the Armenian crowd that “Mother Russia” cares so very deeply about her beloved little Armenia.
Yerevanian,
These quizzes provided by FSB agents in Moscow, and redistributed by their lower ranking junior members, who can impress their “fake” and corrupted intelligence for AW readers, especially for their master “teddy bear” in Kremlin Palace, just like our corrupted beer belly Armenian MPs, who are sucking blood out of our poor impoverished nation, depopulating Armenia, and herding them toward “mother Russia”.
GB,
You forgot to add that the majority of RoA citizens who see in Russia their protector from murderous Turkic tribes and supported Armenia’s entry to EAEU are all junior members of FSB. Whoever understands that Armenia’s security and physical survival at this critical juncture of our history lies in having a powerful guarantor and that only Russia is willing to be one for whatever reasons, is a junior member of FSB. Right?
Is this the apogee of your intellectual capacity?
No, it’s much simpler than that. It’s just becoming more and more amusing to drub an objective geopolitical reality and obvious security needs for Armenia into the stiff heads of one or two petty Turkophile agent provocateurs grazing on these pages.
And, I guess, checking the correct answers in those quizzes would be too much of a burden for the chicken brains of those one or two Turkophiles, woudn’t it?
And, if the Armenian posters are not interested in taking those silly, meaningless quizzes, then why is it such a burden for the chicken brains of that one particular neurotic Russian nationalist?
Well, since you’re failing to lure Armenian posters to sit down and take your quiz, then maybe you should gallop over to one of your favorite Turkophile websites and present it over there.
I wonder if any secret deal going on between corrupted oil man, and clever Russian Bear, regards to Artsakh and Axerbaijani new demand!I am sure most борщ lovers will get excited and will start a new wave of intellectual debates in AW!!!
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/74721
Your kind has actually been wishing for a betrayal by Russia for as long as I remember. You want Armenia to get sold to Turks/Azeris only so that you can say “see Russia betrayed Armenia”. Armenians like you (if you and the rest of the Russophobes here are indeed Armenians and not cyber warriors for the US State Department) are more of a threat to Armenia than any Russian official. In fact, your kind is the reason why Armenia has always been on the brink of disaster. You people are utterly devoid of intellectuality and wisdom. Your main motivation is hate (i.e. Russophobia) and self-righteousness (o.e. arrogance) your spiritual partners are Western imperialists and Turks.
GB,
I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some sort of a deal being crafted between Azerbaijan and the Kremlin. After all, if Russia goes behind Armenia’s back and supplies its mortal enemy with four billion dollars worth of military arms, then there’s a very good chance that more of these deals will be taking place in the future between those two.
{“ quizzes provided by FSB agents in Moscow, and redistributed by their lower ranking junior members”}
{“ corrupted intelligence for AW readers, especially for their master “teddy bear” in Kremlin Palace”}
GB:
Since only two posters provided a quiz as a public service in this thread, myself and [John], I will respond on my behalf, and only on my behalf.
I am not responsible for what [John] wrote, and neither confirm nor deny his membership in any organization.
I know nothing, nothing.
For the record, I am not a lower ranking member of FSB.
I am a middling ranking officer in the GRU.
My exact rank is a State secret.
And we don’t like those guys at FSB: not tough enough to be real Русский (Russian).
And our Maximum Paramount Leader Цар (Tsar) Putin is no “teddy bear”, homes: he is one tough Мужик (Hombre), who wrestles Siberian tigers bare handed.
I’m just an Ukrainian–made “Russian” by some–borscht-chowing Santa Claus…
Fellow FSB, SVR, and GRU agents of all ranks; neurotic Russian nationalists; extra ordinary BS talents; those proffering crap analytical explanations; fellow faithful borsch (борщ) lovers:
It is with sadness I note that our “competition”, as it were, has been reduced to this level of desperation.
Not very intellectually challenging jousting with the lot.
Nevertheless, we must continue our thankless task of debunking misinformation and disinformation at all levels: not to engage and debunk is tantamount to allowing nonsense to have the day and leave a damaging residue in the minds of many of our compatriots who read ArmenianWeekly.
Somebody has got to do it.
Luke 12:48 “When someone has been given much, much will be required in return”
And exactly which “competition” have you and your fellow Russian nationalists provided besides continuously and desperately spraying Kremlin propaganda nonsense at the highest possible levels to cover up Russia’s wrongdoings against Armenia? Anyway, the same way that it’s important to debunk Turk/Azeri nationalists at all levels, it’s also equally important to debunk the Russian nationalists at all levels as well.
Avery,
You did not analyze this article yet…I am sure most AW readers love to hear your “constructive” and “intellectual” opinion!
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/74721
Yep, our silly Russophobes were right after all, Russia will now sell Artsakh to Azeris for a measly radar station. Not!
No amount of gas from Baku or military installations in Azerbaijan is enough for Russians to betray their strategic relations with Armenia. In fact, Russia had radar installation in Azerbaijan until very recently and Russia has been purchasing Azeri energy for many years. Yet, none of it impacted the way Moscow protects Armenia from regional predators like Western powers, Azeris, Turks and Islamic radicals. Unlike Western officials who would even sell their mothers into prostitution if the price was right, Russian officials understand the importance of strategic friends.
In a nutshell: Moscow is trying to make a comeback in Baku. All in all, this is good news for Armenia. A larger Russian presence in Baku would lessen the probability of war in Artsakh
PS: Our silly Russophobes would do well to realize that Eurasianet is a US government sponsored propaganda site.
What a strange way you view you friends. Would you give weapons to your friends mortal enemy? And them claim they could have “bought them anywhere else” so it didn’t matter? That your still a friend regardless? Sorry that’s no TRUE friend or ally. Russia may be the only option Armenia has but a friend? Nonsense. More like exploiter. I trust no one. And neither should anyone else. Only the Armenian military.
“This is not the first time you try to insult our intelligence, Random. Think things through next time or else you’ll risk to completely discrediting yourself as a serious debater.”
You’re not exactly model debater yourself john.
Never aspired to be one. But never attempted to insult the intelligence of fellow-commenters by asking them whether “Georgia would have sent her army if the US was attacked”…
{Only the Armenian military.}
If we put “Russophile-Russophobe” tug-of-war aside for a moment, I would really like to understand what exactly you mean by “I trust no one […] only the Armenian military”?
Who doesn’t?
But under existing conditions you cannot secure Armenia’s defense and national security only by trusting your military, because on par with trust there must also be a realization of the fact that our military—for a variety of demographic, geographical, industrial, etc.—reasons doesn’t measure up against superior demographic, geographical, industrial, etc. capabilities of our enemies, at least one of them. Armenian fedayees also were trusted and highly revered, had excellent morale and fighting spirit. Nonetheless, they were ultimately suppressed by a superior—and genocidal—Turkish regular military force and Turkish government-sponsored Kurdish tribal squadrons.
It just so happened—for a variety of geographical, historical, demographic and geopolitical reasons, as well as a result of destruction of two millions of Armenians and the theft of two thirds of historical Armenia—that her remaining portion, the RoA, with her scarce resources and land-locked status is not fully capable of providing defense and security for her population all by herself against two genocidal Turkic states to the south-west and to the east. Had there been Azeristan only (pop. 9 mln plus oil and gas riches), we still could ‘handle’ it with our military wit and fighting spirit. But having Turkey next door (pop. 77 mln plus largest army in NATO and Europe), with all the trust and admiration for our men and women in uniform, requires an outside help.
What do you want?
In a quiz above by poster ‘Avery’, which commenters like you chose not to answer, you (plural) were specifically asked to provide the names of countries that can replace Russia—warts an all—as the strategic partner of RoA, if Russia decides to leave the South Caucasus.
Please answer that question. Please refrain from giving us utopical, divorced-from-reality answers, such as “Armenia must rely only on herself” or “We must trust no one, only the Armenian military”. This would be true, if Armenia, as of now, had her own military industry that would always drastically supersede Azeris’ arms purchases, roughly proportional (to Turkey) or at least competitive, population size, larger territory at the expense of our lands now in Turkey, an outlet to the sea, natural resources, and several other advantages.
But as for now, again, what country(ies) and/or military block can—and be willing, in the first place—to replace Russia as a guarantor of Armenia’s security? Name one.
One.
The calculus is very simple and brutal.
Even if our men KIA the enemy at a ratio of 10-to-1, which given military technological capability of RoA vs Turkey is highly unrealistic, RoA would soon run out of fighting age men.
Turkey on the other, has a base of something like 50 million population which considers itself ‘Turk’, from which it can draw millions of young men eager – eager- to go and kill Armenians.
(I am assuming the 20-25 million Kurds of Turkey will not participate this time)
RoA has no tactical nukes and no superior air force to destroy Turkish armored columns racing towards Yerevan (30% of RoA population) on the indefensible Ararat plane.
People shouting jingoistic slogans from the safety of their offices have no clue how brutal and bloody modern war is.
“People shouting jingoistic slogans from the safety of their offices have no clue how brutal and bloody modern war is.”
This, I think is the crucial point as to why Armenia, currently, needs its relationship with Russia. I try not to get involved with the Russia-Armenia issue that seems to come up all the time but I’ll give my two cents. Russia is a necessary evil for Armenia at this point. Period. If, in the future, Armenia is in a secure position where it, like Israel can defend itself from all enemies, then the discussion can be had about what Armenia should do with its relationship with Russia. Yes, Russia does things like selling weapons to Azerbaijan that goes against Armenian national security interests. But guess what, this is not an equal relationship. Russia would be perfectly fine without Armenia, I don’t think the reverse can be said. You have to take the good with the bad. I don’t see the controversy.
Little Harut,
Have you missed Russian style Borscht again??? I am not interested in US or NATO, Turkey’s or Russian style BS! I like to hear some real politics. Your one way, none constructive comments is good for the Russian lovers, like our corrupted Armenian MPs, who are sending our young “Orthodox Christians” to mother Russia!
{“Avery, You did not analyze this article yet…I am sure most AW readers love to hear your “constructive” and “intellectual” opinion!”}
(GB // August 20, 2015 at 2:06 pm //)
GB:
I appreciate that you consider my opinions constructive and intellectual. Although I am not sure why you would put those in quotes: what are you trying to say ?
That my opinions are not really constructive and intellectual ?
Please, I an dying to know.
My feelings are a little hurt.
I am a sensitive guy.
Please, pretty please say you did not mean it.
Now, then.
Yes, of course: a web site, a television station, allegedly operated by the Russian Ministry of Defense, reports that a Russian radar station will be built in Azerbaijan sometime in 2017 (..why not in 2016?), so it is proof positive that Russia sold NKR to Azerbaijan.
Q: why would Russia suddenly decide to spend $100s of millions building a new radar station in Azerbaijan, when Azerbaijan played hardball last time and told Russians to leave.
Q: why would Russia spend all that money to build a permanent site in a country that can fall into the hands of radical Islamists any day, forcing Russians to leave. Again.
Anyhooo.
The Soviet/Russian Gabala Radar station in Azerbaijan closed in 2012.
All throughout the NKR war (1991-1994), Azerbaijan threatened Russia that if they did not sell out NKR, they’d close Gabala.
Russia wanted a lot more cash to sellout NKR than Azerbaijan was willing to pay at the time.
Finally, Azerbaijan had had enough and told Russians to get lost in 2012.
But apparently they have now reached an agreement.
I wish the web site had also mentioned the price they agreed to.
No doubt Russia got at least $10 billion for NKR, because Russia is desperate for cash.
Right.
So then: according to Eurasianet.org, a Neocon disinformation site (like http://www.rferl.org and http://www.azatutyun.am), the Armavir radar station inside Russia lacks some coverage towards the South, so Russia is allegedly going to build a radar station critical to its homeland defense in a foreign country that is wholly owned by BP, as in UK, as in NATO.
Russia is not going to build a radar station on its own territory just North of former Gabala site, or on top of one of NKR mountains (as in “Mountainous”), or in Armenia, its strategic partner, but in a potentially hostile country.
It makes perfect sense.
Here I pose to contemplate, and post this question that has been on my mind all this time.
The question is directed to our Russophobe friends, but anyone can answer:
Assuming Russia decides or has decided to either give or “sell” NKR to Azerbaijan, what would be the benefit to Russia herself ?
Why wouldn’t Russia simply take NKR for itself ?
Who is to stop it?
A referendum will be conducted, and people of NKR will overwhelmingly vote to join Russia, given the choice to them by Russia of either joining Russia or Azerbaijan.
Why would Russia allow a large, mountainous region to become a base for Islamist terrorists, who would operate there unmolested, and who would link up with Russia’s own internal Islamist terrorists operating in its own Chechnya, Dagestan, etc. (like Islamist terrorist did in Georgia’s Pankisi gorge).
Two republics and one ethnos in the region are completely free of Islamist terrorism and have been since Day 1.
Clearly, Russia needs more Islamist terrorism in its backyard, so they will “sell” NKR to Muslim Azerbaijan.
Suuuure, why not.
“Yes, Russia does things like selling weapons to Azerbaijan that goes against Armenian national security interests.”
The controversy is not whether this statement is true or not, but that simply stating it is. The reality that Armenia needs Russia militarily is not contested, but how strongly does Russia ultimately stand with Armenia and Artsakh.
When someone states this, some people accuse that person of being anti-Russian or even an anti-Armenian traitor.
It’s as if any discussion of Russian arms sales to Azerbaijan simply should not happen and is somehow anti-Armenian. Verging on a taboo subject.
“..but how strongly does Russia ultimately stand with Armenia and Artsakh.”
Im not sure how relevant that point is considering the relationship. Armenia needs Russia militarily like you said. It’s dependent. Russia is perfectly fine with or without Armenia obviously, so they can conduct their business in terms of who they sell what, despite it being against Armenian interests to do so. Russia stands with Armenia to the extent that it is a safeguard and deterrent against Azeri or Turkish aggression or invasion. Is it some great ally that will defend Armenia at any cost and always Armenian interests into mind when conducting business or foreign policy? No, it’s not. But it protects Armenia from the serious threat of Turkic aggression/potential war and prevents its near total isolation (with Georgia being in the NATO sphere of influence and Iran having its long list of issues). That should be enough considering the great power disparity in the relationship.
RVDV,
I agree with your assessment of the Armeno-Russian relationship.
I am urged by some on AW to glorify Russia and see that country as Armenia’s savior, when Russia’s commitment to Armenia and Artsakh is not set in stone. It’s not 100% clear where the future will lead given that Turkey and Azerbaijan have more to bargain Russia with in terms of energy and its transport and as an export market.
I fail to see why I should blindly support and glorify Russia. I find it to be demeaning and insulting to be honest. Russian support is appreciated and it’s critical need is understood. But I don’t need to be an Russian nationalist.
I prefer the realistic view you outlined. Armenia is dependent on Russia and has no choice but to have military support. For a country like Armenia, a Russian involvement in building up a local military industrial complex would be a good thing. It’s probably happening right now but not publicized.
[Azerbaijan uses Turkish-made TR-107 rocket launcher]
http://www.panorama.am/en/society/2015/08/25/mil-nkr/
{On the night of August 24-25 Azerbaijani troops continued to violate the ceasefire on the line of contact between the armed forces of Karabakh and Azerbaijan….In addition to 60 mm, 82 mm and 120 mm mortars, the Azerbaijani side also used TR-107 multi-barrel rocket launcher system made in Turkey.}