Armenia’s Justice Minister to Hungarian Counterpart: ‘I would have resigned’
Azerbaijani Defense Minister Safar Abiyev has promoted Ramil Safarov from the rank of lieutenant to major a day after the latter was extradited to Azerbaijan from Hungary and received a pardon from Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev, reported News.az.
Abiyev congratulated Safarov on his return to the country. The ministry also awarded Safarov over eight years’ worth of salary for the time he spent in a Hungarian prison, and gifted him with an apartment.
In April 2006, Safarov was found guilty of premeditated murder and was sentenced to life in prison, with possibility of parole after 30 years, after confessing to hacking to death 26-year-old Armenian Lt. Gurgen Markarian while the latter was asleep in his dormitory room. Safarov and the victim were in Hungary for a NATO-sponsored Partnership for Peace English-language course in 2004. Safarov struck Markaryan 16 times with an axe, almost decapitating him. Following the murder he walked over to another Armenian officer’s room, hoping to commit a second murder, but found his door locked.
Azerbaijan’s Justice Ministry had assured officials in Hungary that Safarov would continue to serve out his sentence in Azerbaijan. However, hours after his arrival on an Azerbaijani Airways special flight, Aliyev signed an order to pardon Safarov. The pardon became effective on the day of signing.
Praise for pardon in Azerbaijan
Commenting on Safarov’s extradition and pardon, Azerbaijani MP Ganira Pashayeva told an Azeri news outlet that “this is a great event not only for Azerbaijanis living in Azerbaijan, but for the whole Turkish people living inside and outside Azerbaijan.”
“Ramil is one of the heroes of our people. I congratulate our people and his relatives. I believe that Ramil was always beneficial for his people and will continue to be so,” said Pashayeva, who added that this was a message to the youth that the state will support all those who serve their country.
In an interview with News.az, a member of Azerbaijan’s Parliamentary Committee for Defense and Security, Zahid Oruj, said that his government was “twice able to negotiate with the Hungarian side to release [Safarov],” but their efforts were fruitless—once due to the resignation of Hungarian President Pal Schmitt, and another time due to the resignation of the minister of justice.
Oruj, who along with MP Azay Guliyev was directly involved in securing Safarov’s extradition, also claimed that the purpose of opening an Azerbaijani Embassy in Hungary was to secure Safarov’s release. “The main purpose of the establishment of the Azerbaijani Embassy in Hungary was to ensure the legal protection of Ramil Safarov. Azerbaijan in a short time was able to bring its relations with Hungary to the highest level,” he said, and added that Aliyev, through securing Safarov’s release, “has made a contribution to the liberation of Karabagh.”
Oruj also said that the Azerbaijani people experienced “anxiety” when Safarov was imprisoned, and that his release will help “raise the moral and psychological mood of the society.”
Armenian Justice Minister sends letter to Hungarian counterpart
Armenian Justice Minister Hrayr Tovmasyan, in a letter addressed to his counterpart, Hungarian Administration and Justice Minister Tibor Navracsics, expressed his “indignation and concern” at Ramil Safarov’s extradition.
“I am certain that you should have known what will happen with Safarov in Azerbaijan. You should have known that you [were] transfer[ing] a person, having committed a murder based on motive of racial hostility, to a country where he is considered a hero. You must have known that [this] is a slap first of all to the justice of Hungary and generally to the whole European value system,” Tovmasyan wrote.
Tovmasyan said he did not believe that Azerbaijan’s assurances to Navracsics should not have been enough. “You should not have transferred Safarov to a country where he was made a hero by the Azerbaijani authorities for years,” he said.
“I would have resigned in your place as a minister,” wrote Tovmasyan. “However, even in case of resignation, the family of Gurgen Margaryan, the Armenian people, and the whole progressive humanity will remember you as the one having ‘justified’ the murderer,” he added.
Tovmasyan concluded by saying that his ministry will break all bilateral relations with the Hungarian Ministry of Administration and Justice.
A day earlier, Armenian President Serge Sarkisian announced the suspension of diplomatic relations with Hungary, following a National Security Council meeting.
Nanore Barsoumian
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Why not post a picture of Lt. Markarian instead of visuals of Safarov? I, for one, am sick and tired of looking at this criminal’s puss!
How many other countries have broken off relations with Hungary for sending the axe murderer back to glorious Azerbaijan?
The United States is disappointed with Hungary’s action? Poppycock!
This whole affair is intended to provoke Armenia and give Azeri’s an excuse to use all the weaponry they have been amassing in anticipation of renewed fighting. An Azeri trap.
Shame on Hungary, for letting the murderer to go free.
that’s what happend
I’m sure the whole affaire was already known by the west before it happened. NOBODY gives a damn about this murder. Oil is more precious than Armenian innocent blood. The whole “civilized” world scre•ed us in the past and will continue doing so, included our criminal “ally” Russia who’s selling billions of $$ worth weaponry to Azerbaidjan. I hope the weapons sold to us by Russia are not defective!!
It’s a typical of Azeris Brutality againsed Humenity all over the World, nothing else!!!
The murderer is a marked man & we’ll be waiting for him in Artsakh.We’ll hunt him down,yes we will hunt him down.This event makes us much & much stronger to defend our homeland from these criminals & we’ll strike them with such a strength that they’ll have to think thousands of times before taking a step.Long live Armenia & Artsakh.
The rank of Major is above the rank of Captain.
Ranks of Azerbaijani Army:
Lieutenant
Senior Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Apparently murdering a sleeping man with an ax is considered such a heroic act by the Azerbaijani General Staff and Sultan Aliyev, that they reward the psychopathic ax murderer by jumping at least one rank (possibly two).
Not being able to defeat Artsakh’s Armenian Mountain Warriors in battle, repeat In Battle, where about 35,000 of their ‘fearless’ askyar were permanently retired from life courtesy of NKR military (a KIA ratio of 5-to-1 in Armenians’ favour) , Azeri scum are elevating the lowest of the low – a confessed and convicted ax murderer of a sleeping man – to hero status.
Azeri psychopaths: don’t celebrate too soon; next time you guys invade NKR, expect far worse than your 35,000 KIA.
and THEN SOME…
Well said Avery jan.. well said..
THEY ARE ALL COWARDS… celebrating a hero who killed an innocent unarmed Armenian in his sleep… i beg different if that coward was faced with a fidayii .. he would have pooped in his pants and ran like a schoolgirl… coward…
I am very sorry for the family of Lt. Markarian. How can such brutality be rewarded? All who have been involved, including Hungary, will have to answer for their actions when they stand before the ALMIGHTY. I understand the desire for revenge, however, that does nothing but fan the flames of hatred. Instead it is time for a nation wide day of pray in Armenia as well as all believers around the world. Pray for peace and protection for Armenia.
1) Armenian Government must seize any and all liquid asset (equivalent of billions of bribe ) Hungary holds in Armenia, if any.
If the amount of the bribe is not known, seize all and let them prove the actual amount.
2) File a complaint and a claim and place a lean on all funds transferred/to be transferred by Azerbaijan to Hungary.
3) Demand an immediate end to all NATO related activities/cooperation with Azerbaijan. It does not share the same values of freedom and democracy.
4) President Obama must personally disclose the details and expose the culprits. If Turkey is involved then US aid to Turkey must STOP.
5) Demand from NATO re incarceration of the terrorist either in Hungary (if it can be monitored) or in Armenia.
6) Stop all US aid to Azerbaijan. US tax dollars should not be given to a NATO terrorist nation to be used to free a terrorist. If US tax dollars are used to free the terrorist the US must stop any and all aid to Azerbaijan. If US tax dollars are not used, then obviously Azerbaijan has more than enough if it can pay billions to free a terrorist and all US aid must stop.
7) Stop trade and tourism with Hungaria. Boycott their product.
They have betrayed our trust, they have lied to Armenians, and are collaborating with the enemy.
Friend of my enemy is my enemy!
Azerbaijan is not in NATO. But anyway, how exactly is Armenia in a position to make demands from NATO? What leverage does it possess to make NATO and the US comply with its demands.
For example- point 4. That will never happen. Believe me, I want that criminal brought to justice as much as you do but lets be realistic.
Reminds one how ASALA assasins became Armenian heros.
That’s right Murat, their job is to track down murderers like this azeri rabid dog and earlier through “nemesis”, your CUP mass-murderers and also, fascist Turkish “grey Wolves”, who murder priests, missionaries and honorable Turkish citizens like Mr Dink, then murder his lawyer. You better pray that the Kurds don’t get their hands on Assad’s wmd’s. They don’t have the patience of armenians. Your “wise cracks” about the suffering of people are not appreciated-just, sadly,expected.
ASALA was terminated, we dare to terminate this piece of dirt…..
Please read the comment of Murat in HDN on the subject of Turkish diplomat slain by ASALA to be remembered by monument in Canada :
Murat
8/16/2012 3:50:33 PM
He was killed because he was a Turk. Does anyone ask why Armenians were carted off Eastern Turkey? At least that one has an answer.
Since HDN did not publish my several comments,I do hope that AW does publish my reply:
– He was assassinated because he was a Turkish diplomat representing his country which committed the Armenian Genocide & which denied it & not because he was a simple Turk.
– These assassinations of Turkish diplomats put the subject of the Genocide back on the table & it continues to be discussed internationally.
– Armenians in the Armenian Highlands were Genocided,butchered,massacred & ethnically cleansed by your forefathers & not carted.
See I knew you had it in you. How elegantly and smartly you have justified killing of innocents! Unlike my barbaric ancestors!
active genocide denial is a crime
the genocide denier is a criminal
a criminal is not innocent
Another IDIOTIC comment by a norotrious denialist.. Murat you are a joke..
“He was assassinated because he was a Turkish diplomat representing his country which committed the Armenian Genocide & which denied it & not because he was a simple Turk.”
Oh well, maybe this poor soldier who was axed to death was no simple soldier but wearing the uniform that represented death and destruction and all things evil, at least to the murderer.
We can play this logic all night long. It will get you to a very uncomfortable place.
‘He was killed because he was a Turk’. Remember this phrase?
Murat, do you have it in you to condemn the pardoning of Safarov?
Wrong is wrong.
Now that’s a different story.
Prooves several things to the Turks:
1. The genocide victims and denials will not be ignored.
2. Maybe ASALA didn’t do the right thing, but they did prove that in addition to our peaceful approaches towards asking for justice we can also kill just as the Turks did when they killed innocent women and children. Accept that your diplomates were anything but innocent, just hiding the truth as the agenda of post Ottoman turks were after the genocide.
3.Armenians maybe driven out of their homelands and their lands taken and their country left to them is just a smallest one in the region and isolated from Europe, but we are still here and we will take action, some good and few bad.
When the genocide was commited the young turks thought everyone will forget Armenians. But, Armenians kept on reminding you that we won’t hold the other chick. Right after WWI Andranik in Germany killed one of the three Pashas and another one was killed by Armenians in Tiblisi.
By the way, during ASALA’s raid on Turkish diplomates, Turkish government was still hiding the mass graves of Christian victims, Armenian or else from the world’s eyes. ASALA could of done more damage if they would of known the truth.
The whole point is we as an ancient nation, we have persevered and will persevere. Nothing will stop us from asking for justice.
ASALA assassins will come again to haunt your low-level scum leaders, remember talat the murdered…he was killed like a dog
In such a situation, the Israeli government (with logistic help of Pentagone) would have sent a commando squad to capture Safarov, the bastard.
Unfortunately, the Oil is on the ‘wrong side’ of the frontier…
Exactly, Vartan. Instead of empty verbiage, the Armenian government must have given orders to their intelligence service to abduct the Azeri son of a b**** and bring him to justice, just like the Jews did with Adolf Eichmann.
shat lav klini yete tents lini Serko jan.. shat lav… aylandaknerin nayi… tesnum es srants dux@? srants gratsner@… irants mech vax chka.. giten vor voch mek voch mi ban el chi kara ani.. dra hamar Hayastan@ petqa urish dzevov dra gluxa uti..
Ayo, Gayane jan, baic et operation@ iragortselu hamar Hayastani nakhagahi anun@ Serjik chpiti liner, ail Garegin Nzhdeh!
Ay et chisht es Serko jan… shat chist es.. ehhhh mer hye joxovurti baxta misht chi berum sents hartserum… iskakan xelq@ glxin mekin yerkri arachnord chka. dra hamar el es vichakum enq…
It is hard to tell if the Armenian Foreign Policy Office employees are so inept or they just do not care and hold their jobs so that they can travel overseas and shop. Mr. Aliyev planned in detail, worked hard and sure bribed to get what he wanted. With as much indication all around that this plan is going to happen, why didn’t Armenia publicize and officially warned Hungary of serious consequences? Maybe they were busy preparing the khorovatz.
Armenian side did warn Hungary multiple times, and not only with words but with facts, but Hungarian government chose money over dignity. Hungarian side was well informed that Safarov was a hero in Azerbaijan-AzeriTurks named streets and schools after him.
Saaten,
Because oftentimes there’s no such a thing in the Armenian government or its foreign policy branch as preventive, proactive diplomacy or strategic planning. At best, they would act retroactively, but first, the khorovatz and travel overseas. Responsible state mentality is near-absent with many of the foreign office employees. This said, they cannot be blamed: a minor step aside from the general government policy line and they’ll be recalled and end up suffering a slow death as professionals in the central apparatus.
In case you are wondering why we are celebrating a killer as a hero … Ok, let’s put all BS aside. If the positions were swapped, and your guy was the killer, you would be coming up with all kinds of excuses why he was not to be punished. The thing is, dear Armenians, we are enemies. And Ramil’s act embodies the rage we Azeris feel in the face of the Armenian aggression and occupation of our land. You say Karabak is not your land. Ok, let’s even concede this point. But how abou the adjacent 7 regions, from one of which Ramil came? I know, I know, the whole world belongs to Ancient Armenia, an attitude which feeds the Azeri rage towards you. No, we do not hate Armenians because you are Armenians. We hate you because you have made over 1 million Azeris refugees, and killled 30000 of us, many of whom were women and children. Of all people, you Armenians should know what it means to be enraged by a historical wrong, right? If you even for a second thought that by having won the first round of the War, you have won all of it, you are wrong. If I were an Armenian I would pay attention to these two facts about the events surrounding Ramil’s pardon and celebration. By waging a war with us, you have made a resolte enemy for yourself. We will never forget and we will hate you till death — this much should be pretty clear. Secondly, your enemey, Azerbaijan, has grown so strong as to essentially buy off a European country like Hungary, and not to care what the pathetic Palones and Obama have to say. As Putin used to say to the West, “What, are you going to withhold from us the sausages?” We dont need any hand-outs, and thank to our God-given Oil, we dont give a damn about the US either. This should be a second lesson to you … We are strong and getting stronger by the day. Be afraid, very afraid. There is nothing scarier than a determined enraged enemy who is getting stronger every day.
Ali all i can say YOU are a denialist idiot for spewing such nonsense.. but then again I am not surprised…
Get over yourself.. Artsagh WAS NEVER YOURS AND WILL NEVER BE.. keep thinking you are owners.. you wil NEVER get those lands..
Are you threatening us with your hate and being our enemy?? Well.. news flash you unintelligent individual… Azeris have been raising haters and murderors in your own backyard … you turning the table and using this against Armenians is TYPICAL OF YOUR LOW LIFE GOVT.. and denialists such as yourself.
You make me sick…
Ali, you are really scaring me when you say: Be afraid, very afraid. I am really shaking in my boots. If you were in front of me you would be pi$$ing in your pants. You are absolutely right, Artsakh (Karabakh) is an ancient Armenian land. The 30,000 dead were killed as soldiers in an aggressive war imposed on the Armenians, unlike the defenseless Armenians murdered with knives in the safety of their residents in Baku, Sumgait and Kirovabad. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were expelled from Azerbaijan, their rights violated, their properties confiscated and made refugees.
It is rather humorous all this sobbing is coming from an Azerbaijani whose fake nation partnered with their fake Turkish step-brothers-in-crime outright deny and humiliate the murder of 1.5 million Armenian women and children in their ancestral homeland in Western Armenia and the destruction of their ancient civilization from Eastern Anatolia. You criminals have long lost your moral authority to pass judgments on us, we could care less what you think of us.
Furthermore, actions speak louder than words. How many more years do angry, brave and determined Azerbaijanis need to put their money where their mouth is? Twenty years with billions of dollars in oil revenues was not enough to make you determined Azerbaijanis grow balls? How many more years do you need? Another twenty or forty years perhaps. A couple of thousand, mostly volunteer brave Armenians, handed you a humiliating defeat and turned you into caged animals full of hate and vengeance. Imagine what we could do to you if we had a fraction of the oil revenues your chicken-hawk president Aliyev is stealing from you.
I guess you take your brave lessons from your president Aliyev who was in hiding during the war when all Armenian former and current ministers and presidents were fighting on the front lines as soldiers and commanders. You are all loud-mouth psychopaths with no balls. Do yourself a favor and don’t leave Baku because we can’t guarantee your safety.
Ali,
In response to your long self-flattering post, I can tell you one thing-if your hero is Safarov, you are not going to win any war because in a real war soldiers don’t sleep.
Ali,you can cheat yourself as much as you want.Artsakh is free & independent.There are no adjacent 7 regions.These are all part of Artsakh.Still we have to re-take Shahumyan.Your sultan & his mafia are milking the poor honorable Azeries & drugging your likes with Artsakh war mongering.
We do not talk much but hit very hard.In the last incident of Talish your losses were more than 47.Did you know about it?Did your government tell anything?Only some died of tractor accidents…right!Your sultan knows very well that in an event of war it will be end of his, his family’s & his mafia’s bloody end.He has already planned his exit routes & has already transferred billions of your oil money to London,Dubai & other places.Already has purchased mansions in London(Park Lane/his very beautiful daughter’s name) & Dubai (in his youngest son’s name 8-10 years old?)… Google corruption in Azerbaijan & be astonished.Google SW Holding & be surprised.This ‘Holding’ belongs to your sultan’s daughters…Where did they get such amounts?Go on & boil & stew yourself with your sultan’s lies.He’s been capable of drugging people like you with lies.
There isn’t a family in Artsakh that has not lost a member during the war.Keep this point in mind.Do you think that we are afraid of cowards like you?We’ve got a very well proven record & this time we’ll make sure that your coward treacherous sultan & his mafia are completely eradicated.Salvation of free Azeris will come from us.Last time we won the war with the abandoned Azeri weapons.This time we have our own & are very well prepared.
Ararat jan… QEFS EKAV… ISKAPES SIRTS HOVATSAV vor qo gratsa kartatsi… such satisfaction… apres.. mersi… well said my friend.. well said…
If we put Safarov in front of the Artsagh soldier he would freeze and pee in his pants…
Hero now… little coward then…
Sella jan.. you summerized it very well…
Գայանե ջան, սրանք մի անմակարդակ եւ անգրագետ ժողովուրդ են իրենց ստեղծած մեծ ու անիմաստ երեւակաութիւներով. Նմամ ժողովրդին պետքէ հարւածով իր տեղը նստացնել.
You really did introduce yourself and we are afraid enough to make sure if the enemy is coming we will defend ourselves. I guess without US your Turkish partners and your Oil wells which will one day soon run out give you some high hopes.
your mentality reflects excessive confidence boosted by Aliev’s old claim regarding his country’s military spendings.
All that said, Ramil is a murderer and his crime wasn’t completed yet. He was going to enjoy seeing more blood but luckly the second target had his door closed.
Just remember that Ramil’s freedom proves cowardness and dishonesty towards the world and God, just as Azeri bribing the boxing referies in olympics did.
If the world is not about to end and there are countries on the good side then your government is should by now be in a deep trouble and will only grow if go that path.
Just hang on to Turkey since if they wash their hands off of you, you will have to make a big effort to find another powerful friend.
Make sure you convince yourself as all the people of caucases do that the only edge you have over Georgians and Armenians is Oil. Other than that the region is volitile and vonurable indeed.
Also, The 30000 Azeris killed maybe true and maybe not, but significant Armenians also suffered as a result of the war. And for sure today’s Armenians in Karabakh do live a higher standard than when they used to live under the command of oil rich Azerbaijan.
Let’s not forget the crimes of Azeris in Baku, Karabakh and other areas before and during the war. Lets not forget how many cross stones from Armenia’s middle age history were thrown into the Araks river and before that use to make schools out of withou any respect. Let’s not forget Nakhijevan. The list goes on.
You can hate us for taking Karabakh but you can’t justify it. Its pure nationalistic fed haterate by a leader who has been feeding it into your heads.
My final word to you is that the justice will only be served if Ramil is sent to Armenia and our justice system desides what to do with him.
Thanks for early warning. We are standing guard.
At least you were honest. You are enemies, and I feel there is another war looming, and I can’t say who’ll win this war, but I’d hate to be on the losing side. But don’t throw out words like “strong” and “power”. A country which was strong and had power wouldnt have part of its land under ‘occupation’ as you see it. A country with strength and power wouldn’t need to constantly state that it does have strength and power- it would be a given. A country with strength and power would win a war in which, truth be told, it had every advantage in. What happens when your oil and natural gas runs out? Any long term, sustainable economic plan?
“There is nothing scarier than a determined enraged enemy who is getting stronger every day.”
There is. An irresponsible warmongering nation, ruled by a man who actually brings shame to the word dictator, which bought its way to what it perceives as power. You want Armenians out of your lands. Honestly, I’m over it, go get em tiger. But if Azerbaijan is going to do something can it do it already? Some of us are tired of this soap opera.
If there is another war we will establish our third capital in Baku. The fourth capital soon to be established in Van. Twenty years ago they were defeated mostly by a few thousand volunteer militia. Today, they will have to face the combined forces of three sophisticated armies: The Karabakh Republic’s defense forces, the Armenian army and the wrath of Russia for entertaining NATO in the Russia’s backyard.
Azerbaijanis are a defeated nation with a corrupt autocratic dictator president who, on the one hand, is stealing billions of dollars of oil money, stashing them in foreign banks and buying palaces in USA and UAE while his people are stuck in poverty and a million of them live in box carts. On the other hand, he is ruling his fake country with an iron fist, stifling freedom of expression and crushing dissent to continue robbing the country and to maintain his hold on Aliyev dynasty. Once in a while, especially when foreign officials visit the region, he needs to shift the focus of his people living in misery and from internal strife on to the Armenians by making empty threats and people like “Ali” are pawns in the hands of this dictator.
Imagine how miserable these people are and how low their morale is as a defeated nation that their president had to resort to bribing the Hungarians for 3 billion euros to free an axe murderer in order to use him to lift the morale of his people. Think about how many families those 3 billion euros could have lifted out of poverty instead.
What we also need to understand is that Azerbaijanis are not a unique nation but a fake improvised nation and their artificial country is nothing more than an oil depot established in 1918 by the Ottomans to control and exploit its oil fields, just as the west is exploiting today, and to have a strong foothold in the South Caucasus to establish Pan-Turanism by trying to wipe Armenia off the map after committing the Genocide in 1915.
Make no mistake about it, whoever is in charge of this terrorist state is there to fill his own pockets, with no regard for people’s civil rights, for as long as he can last.
Ali, who started the aggression that led to the war between Azeris and Armenians?
Armenians did not set out to turn anyone into refugees. Azeris have themselves to blame for this. Azeri aggression foisted this war on us and Armenians had a right to defend themselves, just as they had a right to request independence for NK.
How can you defend the murder of a sleeping soldier in a non-combatant situation on foreign soil during a partnership training mission while a cease fire is in effect? You find this to be a heroic act? Your thinking is depraved and uncivilized. Following your thinking, Armenians have the right to slay any Turk, on any soil, at any time, into eternity, because ‘Turks’ displaced and murdered Armenians and stole their land. And Armenians should then, logically, also have the right to slay any Azeri, at any time, on any soil, because of the pogroms that were committed against Armenians in Sumgait, Baku, etc., not to mention the slaying of Gurgen Margaryan in Hungary. Does this sound right to you? This is not the middle-ages. Are there really no Azeris who can see this situation for what it is? Are there no Azeris who want peace and are willing to concede rights to Artsakhi Armenians?
Ali, you make Azeris appear unfit to live among civilized nations.
hi there!
First. I represent a Hungarian advertising company called Mandiner Design Ltd. as an owner { http://www.mandiner.com } You all need to know: It was not the decision of hungarian people.
I am working as a creative director and I’ve designed a picture asking your forgiveness. I apologize in the name of my family and my friends.
Please download this gift { 74Kb} from my server. Please it would be an honor to give it to you all…
download link (safe):
http://link.mandiner.com/to_Armenians.jpg
That is a very elegant design, Mr. Ferenc
And no private individual Hungarian needs to apologize for the actions of their Gov.
US Gov does a lot of bad things around the world contrary to the wishes of the American people, and contrary to what they promise before getting elected.
(recommend Armenian compatriots save the jpg design: it is well done)
Beautiful design Mr. Ferenc. Thank you. I agree with Avery. The Hungarian people are not to blame for this horrible affair.
Thank you Medgyesi Ferenc.
Avery and Boyajian,
I bet Hungary considers herself a democracy and is, obviously, an EU member-state. With this in mind, how correct is it to state, with regard to a democracy, that “the Hungarian people are not to blame for this horrible affair”? Formally, the Hungarian people are represented by MPs and government officials who made a shameful decision to hand over the assassin to a state that they knew would set him free. When the infamous Turkish-Armenian protocols were signed by our government, whilst the majority of the Armenians were against it, I’d somehow understand someone saying “the Armenian people are not to blame for this horrible affair” because it’d be an exaggeration to say that our parliament and the government were elected by the majority of the people in free and fair elections. But I haven’t heard of any serious irregularities or violations during the Hungarian elections–general or presidential. Thus, the conclusion that offers itself suggests that their government DOES formally represent the Hungarian people.
I truly love the design.. Very beautiful… Thank you Mr. Ferenc..
Hope you don’t mind but I would like to post this on my facebook page…
Gayane
Armen:
Most governments, even so-called Democratic ones, have well planned, designed systems & mechanisms in place to present the illusion to their people that they are in charge of their country, but in reality a rather small group of elites rule those countries. Every one of them.
It is true that at the local level, citizens have control (that is why they don’t revolt)
However, they have very little to no control over foreign policy.
There is a term that describes that reality: Manufactured Consent.
I stand by my previous statement: Hungarian people at large are not to blame for the immoral act of their Government.
And you living under the illusion that there is such a thing as perfect democracy and that RoA is the only State in the world where there are voting irregularities, tells me all I need to know about your understanding how things really are.
Here is an irregularity for you: During Bush vs Gore, US Supreme Court illegally injected itself in the local elections of the Sovereign State of Florida, and in effect illegally gave the US Presidency to Bush.
And this is a 200+ year old Republic with a magnificent Constitution; a country of Laws going back to Magna Carta.
And you are still complaining about a country, which has had less than 12-14 years of peace&normalcy to develop its civic institutions ?
(are you BTW the same Armen, the University grad from Yerevan ?)
Avery,
I said: formally the legitimate, participatory Hungarian government has been elected as a result of peoples’ vote that none of us heard as having been forged or falsificatory. Therefore, formally, the Hungarian people are represented by their government in the affairs of the state. I admit, and actually know a thing or two, that democracy in our world (dis)order is the rule of an elitist clique that oftentimes is just physically present in the government, but essentially sets up a general line from behind the scene. These are supra-governmental, supra-national structures, such as, for instance, the Council of Foreign Relations in the U.S.
But, as you admit and what I had in mind in my previous post, at the local, grassroots level, citizens do have control over a wide range of matters of national concern. And I know that civil organizations in Hungary operate much more efficiently than in Armenia. The activities of these organizations have been brought to compliance with the EU values and regulations, meaning that on local level people can defend and advance their rights and delegate them to higher authorities.
I disagree that the handover of an Azeri murderer is purely a foreign policy issue. As it looks from the end-result perspective, maybe, but in many respects it is not. It can well be considered a domestic legislation issue, a juridical issue, a human rights issue, a civil rights issue, etc. On such issues people on the local level DO have control. But they chose not to voice concern except for occasional posts here and 15 persons in Budapest holding a sign “Sorry, Armenia!” Thus, I stand by my previous query: how correct is it to state that “the Hungarian people are not to blame for this horrible affair”? In my view, they bear some responsibility for letting their country look like a sellout for oil money in the eyes of the world.
For the record, I’m not complaining about a country, which has had “less than 12-14 years of peace and normalcy to develop its civic institutions”. I said I would understand had such a horrible affair happened in Armenia because, indeed, its civic institutions are in embryonic state. Don’t let your patriotic fervor, which I otherwise appreciate, take over you.
Re: Bush vs Gore case. After 200+ years of Republic with a magnificent Constitution, it was a sad exception to the country’s history. The difference is that after 20+ years of the Armenian Republic and a more or less democratic Constitution it’d be an exception if her Parliament and the President be elected as a result of a free expression of people’s will. Besides, since you admit and I concur that a term that describes the electoral and governability reality is called Manufactured Consent, in America, therefore, it essentially doesn’t matter who is elected President, because the affairs of the state are firmly governed by the Establishment. In Armenia, the Establishment is weak, consequently, it DOES matter who is elected an MP or the President.
Hungarians need to own this decision of THEIR government.
It is a “democratic” country that goes around the world teaching the rest of us democratic principles and values. They voted for this government and the government now represents them. You can’t get it both ways – take all credit for being a democracy and then hide away pretending like it’s a dictatorship that has nothing to do with you. Own up!
I remember a conversation with a stay at home American mom who had very liberal views and agreed that awful things were done by her government on her behalf. And I told her that nobody blames her and everybody understands that American people are not like that. And she looked me in the eye and said: “Oh no! I take full responsibility for the actions of my government because I believe in democracy and even that I did not vote for him, HE IS MY PRESIDENT and anything he does bad is my fault so you can blame me.” This is how democracy works!
Ali:
Part1.
Before you regurgitate misinformation fed to you by your governments propaganda organs on the pages of AW, do some research on your own.
You are not going to convince anyone here with fake bromides.
Here is a synopsis of what happened:
1. When Gorbachev announced his Perestroika and Glasnost, Armenians of NKAO, who had been chafing under the Azeri yoke for 70 years, petitioned the Supreme Soviet to be removed from administrative control of Azerbaijan SSR.
2. In about 70 years of Azeri rule, NKAO Armenians were reduced from about 95% to 75% of the population due to ethnic cleansing policies of Baku. Nachichevan went from 50% to 0%
3. A lot of peaceful demonstrations, a lot of petitions: nothing happened. At one point during these events a rumor spread in Azerbaijan that Armenians had killed 2 Azeris.
4. In response, Azeri mobs, organized and egged on by the fascist Musavat Party, started massacring Armenian civilians in Sumgait in February of 1988. The alleged killing of the 2 Azeris was an excuse, of course: the massacre was pre-planned for a long time. Mobs had preprinted lists of addresses of Armenian families living in mixed ethnicity apartments. That info was available only to government agencies in USSR.
5. After Sumgait, there was a massacre in Kirovabad in November 1988. In the aftermath of Kirovabad, when Armenians from Kirovabad were fleeing to Armenia, armed clashes took place in North Armenia, possibly between the same civilians fleeing Kirovabad and Azeris living in Armenia: at least 25 Azeri civilians were killed in the clashes (as per Armenian sources).
6. In January of 1990, another massacre was launched in Baku. Soviets landed airborne and interior ministry troops in Baku to stop the bloodshed. Interestingly, Azerbaijan commemorates “Black January” every year: except not a word is said about Armenians. The myth has been created that Soviets crushed peaceful Azeri demonstrators to, quote, “prevent independence of Azerbaijan”.
7. In the Summer of 1991 Azerbaijan troops and OMON, supported by Soviets troops invaded NKAO: Operation “Koltso”. About 25 Armenian villages were emptied. About 10,000 Armenians were ethnically cleansed from their lands. About 100 were killed. About 600 taken hostage.
8. On August 30, 1991 Azerbaijan SSR declared Independence from USSR. On September 2, 1991 NKAO declared Independence. NKAO became NKR. Note that the day Azerbaijan SSR separated from USSR, its legal administrative mandate to govern NKAO ended. Full stop.
9. Shortly after NKR declared independence, Azerbaijan launched a full scale war.
10. Around June-October of 1992, Azerbaijan managed to occupy about 48% of NKR proper. Question Ali: when an enemy occupies 48% of NKR proper, what do you do when you throw them out ? Stop, so Azeris can come back and finish you off ? Did the Red Army stop at the border of USSR or did it go all the way to Berlin ? Did USA not take the fight to mainland Japan after Pearl Harbor ?
11. After that high point for Azerbaijan, Armenians slowly turn the tide and start counterattacking. By 1993 NKR military has regained the initiative and is chasing Azeri troops out. Azeris suffer massive losses in KIA and materiel. Towards the end of 1993 and beginning of 1994, Azeri military is so decimated that it is no longer capable of organized defense. Desperate Azeri leadership sends untrained teenagers to the front.
12. After liberating NKR proper and surrounding historic Armenian lands, well rested and reequipped NKR tank columns assemble to push further into Lowlands Karabagh in early January 1994.
13. President Heydar Aliyev is on the phone almost daily pleading Moscow to order Armenians to stop. After some back and forth between Washington and Moscow, NKR military is told to stands down.
14. Azerbaijan signs a ceasefire with NKR authorities. RoA co-signs. Got that ? Azerbaijan signed the ceasefire with NKR.
Ali:
Part2
Regarding the numbers you have thrown out, Ali.
a) There are no 1 million refugees: as of 2011, there are 600,000 Azeri IDPs, which includes 200,000 children born to IDPs in 20 years.
b) 170,000 Azeris living in Armenia were forced out.
c) 500,000 Armenians living in Azerbaijan fled for their lives after the massacres with nothing (some estimates put the number at 400,000). Funny how you Azeris never mention that.
d) The “30000 of us killed”: Azeri side suffered about 35,000 KIA – troops killed in action (which includes Afghan Muj, Turkish ‘volunteers’, Chechens, Paks, Arabs..) Armenian side suffered 5,000 KIA (some sources say 7,000).
As to civilian deaths:
Find out how many Armenians were massacred in Sumgait, Kirovabad, and Baku: long before any war had started.
Find out what happened in Maragha village. (during war)
Find out how may Armenian civilians were killed during the Siege of Stepanakert.(during war)
And yes, we also know about Khojali. It is regrettable that Azeri civilians, particularly children were killed. Many of them by Armenian bullets when civilians were caught in a crossfire between Azeri and Armenian troops. (an unknown number were also killed at the same time by your own Azeri troops: did you know that ?). Armenians did not round up Azeri civilians in a open field and mow them down in cold blood. Your cowardly troops used civilians as human shields to escape death, and civilians found themselves in the middle of a firefight in an active battle zone.
NKR authorities did everything humanly possible to prevent Azeri civilian deaths. They were given plenty of advance notice, and were given safe passage: Azeris themselves admit to this fact.
The primary responsibility for Khojali rests with Azerbaijan’s authorities at the time. But your government will never admit to it.
And as to your threats: Gayane, RVDV, Ararat, and Boyajian already replied.
But Chickenhawks like you and Aliyev always threaten war from a safe distance: it is the unfortunate young men – many of them subjugated minoroties (Tat, Talish, etc) – who know nothing about the dirty politics of their Pasha Aliyev and who are the ones who will be sent far from their homes to be killed for nothing.
Dear Avery:
Typically, I would think, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh… why waste any of my time and get back at a blind shallow Turk/Azeri nationalist… But with what you’ve given me here, seemingly pretty consice cronology and in detais… Wow! I only know may be 40 pecent of this history lesson at best.
Thank you, I’m much better equipped. All I need now is a few spray cans of FEBREZE… LOL
Avery, million thanks as usual. You do know that I copy great comments including the Turks’ . Yours & Ararat’s comments are great. I believe I have your permission to use some facts, phrases, paragraphs in my future comments. Thank you again.
High praise to you Avery for a thorough summary of the conflict between Armenians of NKR, RA and the worldwide diaspora on one hand and Azerbaijan on the other hand.
The following should be underscored and repeated as often as possible:
“Note that the day Azerbaijan SSR separated from USSR, its legal administrative mandate to govern NKAO ended. Full stop.”
Ali, Azeris launched this illegitimate war after their legal right to administrate NKAO had ended and after NKAO became NKR. Armenians of NKR and RA are completely within their rights to defend themselves against Azeri belligerence. Avery has done you a great service. You should follow his advice and do some independent research of this matter. Learn the truth, maintain your self-respect and educate your poor, misinformed countrymen.
We Armenians do not want war, never did, but we won’t retreat and allow the lawless to dictate our future.
Apres Boyajian jan…
It seems crooks and murderors always scream the loudest and threaten the hardest.. however, they dont’ get that it that only those who maintain control will hit the hardest and those loud mouths will get their foot in their mouth and eventually choke on it… that is exactly what will happen to such crooks as Ali and his brethren if he continues to use threats….
Avery jan… what can I say? another superb break down of the events for our ignorant and unintelligent denialists… it is always good to remind them of the TRUE FACTS and not a made up story that was fed to them by their MADE UP, FAKE country’s govt…
Bravo….
Avery & Boyajian… all others. WELL DONE! Azeris and Turks seem to always be kept in the dark… Much more convenient that way!
Okay AW,really? You didn’t approve of my previous post? Ididn’t AXE Ali, just gave him a piece of my mind! Let’s try this:
Trust me Ali; you’re the one who would be shaking! ‘Cause all the FEBREZE in the world will not do you any good… You as a nation have a very repulsive odor that is detected miles away and it’s not exactly Chanel 5! Our men on the other hand WILL be equipped with plenty of ‘Febreze’, because dead Azeris stink even worse than when alive!
I know Aliyev is itching to start another war, taking the land back, etc… But hey, a NATIONAL dream is more honorable than murdering innocent and unarmed people… And HONOR (sheref) is aaaaaaaall what you and your nation are about, isn’t it?
Bottom line, a confessed, convicted, sentenced murderer is freed & rewarded… So what other BS is there, by all of your fake sheref, Ali?
Dear Armenians, any neutral 3rd party reading your posts here would be like: “Now, I get it. I get why the Azeris hate these guys this much!” There is never going to be peace between us. Yes, you won the first round, with Russia’s help. And no, we did not have the oil money back in 1990s. Hech, we did not even have a functioning government back then. Anyways. The team who wins the first half of a game is not an automatic winner. You are are completely self-delusional if you think that the current multi-billion dollar advantage of Azeri army over you will count for nothing when the second round start. I know you rely on the Russians. But we know how that worked out for you in 1915. So keep on boasting and posturing on your own forum page. Keep on writing those letters to currupt US Congressmen. In the end, when the war on Iran starts, Israel and US will be on our side too (regardless of how much Pallanoes and Coxes crow) in exchange for our help with Iran. The pieces on the chess board are shifting, dear Armenians, just like they were in 1915. Once the dust settles down, Russia will be out of the Caucasus, Armenia will be left on its own against the enemies it has made relying on Russia, just like in 1915. Your “historical” motherland will shrink even more and even disappaear once for good all. Iran will be broken up, Southern and Northern Azerbaijan will become one big state, Turke resurgent, and the West firmly established. There will be no room for your great ally Russia. Georgia and Azerbaijan have already kicked it out. Armenia is its only vassal. But not for long. It will be ours in no time. You can write all the letters you wish to Pallones and send him all your $100 contributions all you want. The wheels of history are turning once more, and once more (and once for all) you will be on the losing side. Your fleeting victory in the 1st round of Karabak war will be a distant memory. So enjoy it while it lasts
Ali, what are you smoking? Remember this and repeat it as mantra every day before going to bed: If started, the 2nd round will be the last for you, alien Caucasus Tatars-turned-Azerbaijanis only in 1918 by stealing the name from an ancient Iranian province.
You know that the 2nd round will be the last for you, don’t you? Otherwise you’d start it long ago or even now.
As for the Russians, Russians didn’t fight on our side, but Afghan Mujahidins, Turkish advisers, Pakistani and Chechen mercenaries did fight on your side. And even with their help you chickenhawks lost miserably. Was it not the Russian Soviet troops who fought for you during Operation “Koltso” that emptied some 25 Armenian villages in the beginning of the war? If they continued helping you all the way you wouldn’t address them so disrespectfully, would you? We know your cheap core too well, Azeris.
And don’t call us “Dear”. We witnessed how “dearly” you treat human beings in Sumgait, Kirovabad, Baku, Maragha, and Budapest. You’ll disappear as part of a natural process when your oil stops flowing, because you can do nothing other than gobbling up oil money.
Ali, any neutral third party reading your delusional fantasies will actually say: Now I understand why Armenians loath these racist Azerbaijani parasites so much. It is becoming clear the true motive behind the Azerbaijani aggression, supported by Turkey, which is the continuation of the genocidal policies of the Committee of Union and Progress (İttihat ve Terakki Komitesi) of the Young Turks regime in 1915. They will say now it is clear why the fake and artificial state of Azerbaijan was established by the Ottomans in 1918, and the Armenians of Baku were massacred by their Azerbaijani collaborators, so they could have a foothold in the South Caucasus to finish off the Armenians after murdering 1.5 million of them and turning what was left of Armenia into an orphanage. They will say it is crystal clear why the criminal and hypocritical Turkish government calls Azerbaijan an extension of Turkey, a euphemism for Pan-Turanism, so as to reignite the old anti-Armenian racist tactics to pursue the creation of the miserably-failed land of Turan which would have stretched from Mongolia (the true homeland of the Turks) to Europe at the expense of the destruction of the ancient Armenian civilization from its path.
Quit making excuses that you did not have this and did not have that and that’s why you lost the war. You forgot to mention all the handsomely-paid filthy Afghan, Chechen, former Soviet and other mercenaries you employed in your army to kills and drop bombs on innocent civilians. Armenians were in much worse shape than you but they did not complain. They had economic problems and on top of that they had to deal with a major earthquake that killed tens of thousands and practically destroyed a city. What you need to realize is that Azerbaijanis fought to maintain their illegal hold on Karabakh while Armenians fought to defend their families, their livelihoods and their ancestral lands they lived on since the ancient times. That’s the difference and that’s why you were defeated and you always will be defeated. The survival and the will of the people tied to its land will always triumph over any force.
It is rather hilarious how you spineless pseudo-Turkish Azerbaijanis keep mentioning Russia but it is understandable that a morally-bankrupt and defeated nation always needs to look for distractions and excuses to justify its defeat. The reality is that those 30.000 dead Azerbaijanis met their fatal destiny at the hands of dedicated and brave Armenian soldiers not by the Russians. Keep on giving credit to Russia it is very therapeutic because nothing is worse than being beaten by a foe you feel superior to.
You are either ignorant or have selective memory because the fact of the matter is that it was Azerbaijan that partnered up with the Soviets to “teach” the Armenians of Karabakh a lesson when they engaged in “operation ring” by encircling the defenseless Armenians but they failed. This was part of a secret deal between the late Haydar Aliyev and Gorbachev in exchange for Azerbaijan remaining a Soviet state to avoid the break-up and the collapse of the Soviet Empire. So remember that next time you mention you lost the war because we had help from Russia.
What you should also remember and understand is that there is no such thing as southern and northern Azerbaijan. This is a fallacy created and drilled into your brainwashed heads by Azerbaijani separatists. What you call southern Azerbaijan is part of the sovereign Iranian Republic and people who live there are not a distinct people but Turkified ethnic Persians. What you refer to as northern Azerbaijan is a fabricated state and nothing more than an oil depot created by the Ottomans for their failed Pan-Turanist adventurism.
The content of your remarks sure will make a good fiction. I can’t help but laugh at your wild imaginations. I mean imaginations like when the war breaks up, US and Israel will be on your side and Iran will break up, the mythical southern and northern Azerbaijan will unite, Russia will disappear and Armenia will shrink even more and all that delusional nonsense. It suffices to remind you that Armenia was one among many ancient kingdoms that no longer exist but Armenia not only exists but it has become a thorn in the eyes of its racial enemies. All Israelis care about is to use Azerbaijani territory to spy on Iran and sell you weapons to make money. The United States and the West will drain your oil and toss you out and leave when the oil dries up. You will make Russia with over 2,000 nuclear war heads disappear? They can wipe you out overnight. Azerbaijan, an artificial state of less than 100 years old, will break up Iran a solid country with over 2,500 years of statehood? Dream on. Let’s hope, for your own sake, you wake up from your fictional coma because if there was even an ounce of truth in what you say, Iran will test out its nuclear weapons on the Azerbaijanis before using them for what they are being alleged to want to use them for.
More than twenty years what is keeping Azerbaijan? You can still call on the same Azeri heores of Afghan, Chechen, Turk and other muslim fighters who joined you in the war against us and plus ask some Russian and Ukranian mercenerries as you did in early 90’s war. This might boost your luck.
For the mean time we want that lunetic Ramil punished rather than awarded.
From the looks of it you qualify an award instead.
I do recognize your patritism. But, won’t overwealm our Armenain one. Sorry.
Ararat jan… between you and Avery…havess galisa.. erkust enqan lav eq kerstnum es debilnerin… u shat xelatsi u lav dzevov.. apres..:)
Ali,
”In the end, when the war on Iran starts, Israel and US will be on our side too (regardless of how much Pallanoes and Coxes crow) in exchange for our help with Iran.”
Are you talking about WW3? If so, make no mistake. Russia and China will be the first to hit your Turkey. Russia will bomb northern Caucasus in an attempt to eliminate separatist Muslims from N. Caucasus. If nuclear bombs will not be used, an independent Kurdistan will be formed between Armenia and Turkey, and finally we will not share any border with Turks. However, I do not think WW3 is going to start anytime soon, so stop dreaming Mr. Ali the Turk.
And most importantly, you need to learn that you or anyone else cannot scare a nation, who has lived through genocide, with genocide.
And we all thought last years world boxing championship in Baku was a joke… Aze was emmbbbarrrasseed on a huge stage with the entire world witnessing the curruption at its worst… But it still continued during the Olympics last month… The USA comentators were mocking Aze and repeatedly mentioning the shameless level of corruption over & over again on national TV with millions watching… SWEEEEEEEEEEET PUBLICITY! Well, even worse occurs in the Aze government on daily basis affecting all walks of daily lives…
Your multi billion dollar advanced weapons will still count for nothing because it will be used by the same morons! Pehapsif Aze does what it did in sports, buying smart Russians, Ukranians, Mol;davs, Belorussins, etc… offer them Aze scum citizenship for a Mil Manats a shot, then we will actually worry and ask for Russia’s help.
Speaking of chess… Armenia is on top of Russia, Aze, the turkeys and all in Hostile ‘turkey’ terretory… So yes we enjoy every single accomplishment, even when as little as NKR!
Only way to settle differences is an all out war between the Turks and Armenians.
Don’t wait Ahmet: do it now.
Go to Azerbaijan, sign up, pick up weapon, volunteer for a mission, and go to the LOC with NKR. Cross into the Armenian side. Bring some friends. You will be warmly received.
You have not been able to handle a few thousand Kurdish fighters in the last 30 years in the southeast within your artificial borders and you want to engage in a war with the Armenians who have access to nuclear weapons? Did you come up with this all by yourself genius or allah revealed himself in your sleep? Learn to walk before you can leap.
Mera Ararat jan..lol love your last statement.. Ahmet is absolutely a dumb genious… that is for sure…
Why is it that only dumb people talk out of their you know what without thinking what they are saying.??? have they no shred of shame? how can the person embaress themselves this way…but hey.. it works for us..so more power to them..lol
Avery jan.. Ahmet does not have the balls to do that.. we already know that my friend.. these notorios denialists have big mouths but small brains with cowardly attitude…
Armen, you say that Russian helped us in the first round of the war. Really? Just think about it. If Russia is so fond of us, why are they your clear allies now in the open? Which one of us has a 50 year lease to rent ourselves to a Russian military base? Don’t deny facts at the cost of making yourself look ridiculous. Russia is an Armenian ally, not an Azeri one. Are you really denying this simple fact acknowledged by all?
Did I say anything about Russia being Armenia’s ally in my post? Do you have a reading comprehension problem, Ali? Hosts of countries all over the world ally themselves with other states given the specifics of their national security. NATO, in which your big brother and genocide-perpetrator Turkey is a member, is an alliance, did you know that?
If you could only imagine Armenia’s situation having one Turkic state to the West that near-annihilated the Armenian ethnos in 1915 and stole our ancestral lands and the other Turkic state to the East that was given Armenian-populated areas in the 1920s, emptied Nakhichevan of Armenians, effectively reduced their number in Karabakh, savagely killed, raped, and burnt alive innocent people in Sumgait, Kirovabad, Baku, and Maragha, started all-out war against Artsakh Armenians, shelled Stepanakert with GRAD missiles, and now threatens us with war, you’d understand why Armenia’s alliance with Russia is necessary.
As much as Armenia is allied with Russia, as much Azerbaijan is allied with NATO member-state Turkey and international oil companies. If you’re so sensitive about Russia’s role in the region, why don’t you Azeri Tatars discontinue the contract about using the Russia-owned Gabala radar station on your own soil?
And yes, really, the Russian Soviet troops helped you Azeris in the first round of the Karabakh conflict. Look up in the Internet if you don’t believe me. The Operation “Koltso” (which is itself a Russian word for “Ring”) was carried out by the Soviet Russian military units that deported whole population of some 25 Armenian villages in Lower Karabakh (Getashen, Gandzak-Gyanja, etc.) while chikenhawks Azeri Turks were crawling behind the Russians only to slaughter whoever could not escape from those villages. This is your core.
Armen jan.. YES THEY DO.. the denialists always have reading and comprehension problems… that is in their genes.. we can’t do much about it….
Armenian casualties due to Azeri cruelty wasn’t limited to the wars over Azerbaijan.
The 88 earthquick in Armenia killed 10’s of thousands of Armenians many of whom could of lived if help arrived soon enough from Russia.
Unfortunately, the trains traveled through Azerbaijan and they were raided, emptied, and sometimes were filled with dead animals.
Azeris tried their luck to damage our nation from the very beginning of Soviet era.
Azeri hatred of Armenians run deep and has nothing to do with Karabakh.
Hungarians ! Armenians don’t blame you but only the Judases amongst you who sold your nation for a few pieces of gold. Nothing could convince me of anything else. The people responsible for releasing Safarov should be investigated and punished. I am just curious to know how much they were paid. Was it really worth it?
Rather youngish,not to say childish *please excuse me for this ref.I am right now reading NAKHIJEVAN a book in Armenian and describing how the “Kochvor” like squatters turco-azeri tribes by and by forced their way into said age old Armenian Province and murdered,raped, destroyed ,burnt down anything that was Armenian in 1915 and even in 1919/21.Latter dates include the very deceiptfull so call S.Socialist Azeri State,then formed trying to take the Russians in and thus encircled and took over Nakhijevan.My grandparents there……Nakhijevantsis perished in the pogroms.luckily my mother and brother were in Tiflis as students and survived.My ,mother has narrated to me how when she with brother went to Nakhijevan to find out about what happened to their parents and their house and belongings ,,they found nothing*soviet timnes alread ,just beginning…
But if you ge hold of that book and read it..I get so sick and nervous reading it,especially at a time co inciding with what has just happened TO ONCE AGAIN PROVE THAT THE TURCO AZERIS HAVE NOT CHANGED!!!!!!!!
Their lust for Armenian blood and their properties has been added to.
I only hope this time over the Good *not all, people of the East and West will come to grasp that these descendents of Lengtemur,Genkiz khan etc., are once again in search of EASY PRAY, TO LOOT TO TAKE OVER etc.,
Panarmenian.net on June 9th 2012 informed that pres. of great Turkey,Mr. Gul in Igdir*Dro’s birthplace had declared -this very close to Armenian border and on the other of it their kins-and I quote, “we shall liberate our lands”OUR LANDS????????
So muchn for that.But I think it is high time that we get RESTRUCTURED..
Do please, I beg of you read my articles on ,armeniannews.info…..
user subscribed articles(on top) click on them
Thanks
G.P.
Yes, it is time to declare a war against Azerbaijan. Lets see how brave you are..!
I will like to face Avery in Erivan.
Necati,
If you have seen war and can say that, you are a child or a beast. If you have not seen war and can say that, you are a fool.
Necati, I expect nothing different from you than this hate and war-mongering.
Are there truly no Azeris or Turks with clear heads and a broad enough understanding of history to condemn the release of a cold-blooded killer and his elevation to national hero?
Necati, why? Armenians have already seen the Turkish “bravery” when Turkish armed military units, gendarmes, and irregulars were mass murdering unarmed and defenseless Armenian women, children, and the elders in 1894-96 and 1915-1922. This is Turkish “bravery”. We know.
Oh gee, Necati, yavrum.
you want to meet me, the ‘gayvery’, in Yerevan ?
I am deeply touched: but told you many times before; I am not available.
Besides, I don’t date guys – not my type. “Not that there is anything wrong with it”, as Seifeld and George used to say.
Istanbul has 13 million people: I am sure you can find love there if you really try; you don’t need to travel all the way to Yerevan.
Avery,Hamshen necati lives in Ankara & not Istanbul.He imports electronic & other nick nack items from China & sometimes attends HK & China fairs.
Vtiger,
so funny you made a deep search for me in internet. :)
I could tell you what you wanted to know if asked directly.
One thing, no import but manufacture in China and export to EU , USA.
Oh my, you ermenians are really so weird..
Hamshen necati,I would not waste my time in researching about you on the internet or anywhere else for that matter.I’ve gathered this info from your so many anti Armenian hatred posts over the years whether here or the Turkish press.1+1=2.As simple as that.I even know the Ankara suburb that you live in.So watch out what you give out & welcome to Armenia & Artsakh anytime you want.
Necati the denialist Turk..
When you are addressing a group of people or a country especially a group of people and a country that is infinteily more advanced in culture and on intelligent level than yours, you need to addres it properly.. Maybe they did not teach you this inyour families or in schools, but let me give you a quick lesson..
I nor the world is not familiar with the usage of ermenians… the proper way of addressing us would be Armenians and our country Armenia you ignorant dumb denialist…. learn some ettiquete …..but then again who am I asking to be polite and know how to act and speak properly….??? ok never mind.. …
Maybe you have a chance if Avery cares less to visit you in Yerevan Prison after wards.
If you begg for Pardon he might bring you one delicious “Gata”, so that you know what you are missing. No coffee included.
Don’t worry Necati, before you face Avery, there are millions of ‘Avery’s in us. Listen dumbass, there is no declaration of war needed. We are already at war for 21 years. You want to face us in Yerevan? Sure come on over, I will be extremely existed to meet you,… for the first and last time.
As long as the murder of Margaryan by Safarov is not avenged, Azeris and Turks will continue to mock us.
Vrej, I can’t advocate retaliation. Let’s work for and demand the re-incarceration of Safarov in Hungary. Let him live out his vital years behind bars—although judging from his chubby-faced pictures, he hasn’t missed many meals in that Hungarian prison cell.
The only way any of these ignorant cowards will ever reach Yerevan is as wounded POW’s…! The dead will only be allowed to contaminate what would be left of Azeri territory! Diaspora volunteers should not forget to take ample supplies of ‘febreze’ with them… To be on the safe side!
Boyajian says: “Are there truly no Azeris or Turks with clear heads and a broad enough understanding of history to condemn the release of a cold-blooded killer and his elevation to national hero?”
Well, like me, I am sure there are many Azeris who consider the guy a violent killer you would not want to be a neigbours with. But … see there is always a but. Just like when you guys justify ASALA killers. But … there is a larger context in which these events need to be considered, both ASALA and Ramil. We both have our own narratives, and unfortunately they are incommensurate. And that is what I mean by “we can never have peace between us.” With Ramil. his acts embody the Azeri indignation at the Armenian aggression. You will say, well, yes, we did take over 7 adjacent regions and made homeless 1 million people … but. That but again. For some of you, it is “… but (I think) they belonged to Ancient Armenia 100,000 years ago, blah, blah.” There is no other way out of this conflict but total war that could produce a clear winner. I am not going to be presumptios and say, we will win (unlike many of you here who claim extreme Armenian bravery able to offset Mig29s, etc), but I can assure of this: the game is not over. There will be a rematch. Maybe you will win, maybe we. Neither you nor I can know this. So stop using the result of a pathetic amateurish “war” that took place in 1990s as a temlate for what is to come, with massive missiles and drones, rockets, etc. You won a skirmish. And to those, who say Afgans fought for us, etc. The truth is, yes, they did. BUt a very small number. But for your too, so many Slavic and other foreign mercineries were there too. And those of you who say: “Karabak won because they were fighting for their homes, while Azeris were the agressors.” This is the dumbest statement ever, given the facts … what do you make of the 1 million residents (or, even if 500k) who were kicked out of their homes? I know, I know, you say, “but …” Well, Ramil is a killer, but … he is a killer of our sworn enemy.
Ali, you read too many fictions it seems. The clear winner was declared 20 years ago and that’s why you are called the loser. But unlike losers who carry their loss with dignity and honor, you lack dignity and are dishonorable sore losers. This is not a game with multiple rounds and rematch. The game, as you call it, is over and the sooner you realize the situation is irreversible and will remain so the better.
First you threw in the Russians but that did not work because as we educated you it was the Soviet army, the KGB and the Azerbaijani OMON together who planned and tried to execute “operation ring” by surrounding Karabakh Armenians with their deadly weapons and many cruel and barbaric acts against innocent civilians to bring Armenians into submission and they failed. Now you have downgraded the war into a skirmish. This shows how badly beaten you people are psychologically that you need to create these fictions so you could at some level tolerate your defeat and have false hopes.
We are a thousand times even more determined in our victory and bringing the international recognition of the Republic of Karabakh into fruition than we were last Friday when an axe murderer’s release was bought for $3.77 billion dollars at your poverty-stricken people’s expense. The clandestine and illegal action undertaken by Aliyev, a draft-dodger turned into a gutless gangster, and by pardoning, elevating and rewarding an axe murder shows Aliye’s true character. To portray as an example of patriotism to his people an axe murderer, killing a non-combatant in his sleep, and to parade around a psychopathic hate-filled racist killer as a hero is a testimony for Aliyev’s hatred toward us and his lack of respect for the lives of Armenians. It is not only comical but it is preposterous to act in this manner toward the Armenians, on the one hand, and promise them full autonomy under such blood-thirsty dictatorship if Armenian troops withdraw, on the other hand. It ain’t gona happen. Not now, not ever. His action last Friday is a further proof he can’t be trusted but he should be crushed even more.
This illegal act on your war-mongering, chicken-hawk president’s behalf has turned into a blessing in disguise for us. His belligerent, racist action will accelerate the international recognition of the Republic of Karabakh and Safarov’s myth will be a thing of the past. Aliyev himself will most likely either be hanged in Baku by his own people for robbing them or by the Armenians in Stepanakert, the capital city of internationally recognized Republic of Artsakh.
Ali,do you remember last year the Azeri drone that was shot down with a hunting gun?
“We don’t want a war, but if we have to, we will fight and win. We are not afraid of killers, even if they enjoy the protection of the head of state,” Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan said in a statement late on Sept. 2. “They [Azerbaijanis] have been warned.”
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nID=29316&NewsCatID=355
Make your own conclusions on the Azeri trickery, cheating & bribery methods:
Memorial for WWII Hungarian soldiers in Azerbaijan
Posted on 31 January 2008, Tags: Daily News, news
The proposal on perpetuating the memory of Hungarian captives
who were buried in the local cemetery of the village of Girigli was
submitted by the Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry, APA said.
The text of the memorial board is to be finalised by the foreign
ministry and the Khanlar local executive power, the agency said,
adding that the cost of the memorial would be covered by the
Hungarian government.
http://www.budapesttimes.hu/2008/01/31/memorial-for-wwii-hungarian-soldiers-in-azerbaijan/
Look friends… our chickenhawk Murat and his peanut gallery is posting on Daily News article that VTiger posted above…
They are absolutely so desperate that they are venturing out to unknown territories outside of their comfortable place.. our own AW… what happened boys?? Can’t get what you want out of AW and now you are trying to spew your venom and lies on other sites??? but guess what.. no matter where you go and decide to dump a sh#$*(#*$(*# bomb, someone will always point out HOW STINKY you denialists are and put you on the spot for lying.. so keep on trying.. you won’t succeed.. liers, cheaters, and murderers always get what they deserve.. maybe not now, maybe not this year but eventually… ..
gayane,thanks & please inform me the site as I could not find it.Turkish trickery tactics are very well known.Turkish readers will recognise that trait of Aliyev’s & his mafia’s.
VTiger jan.. my apologies.. it was actually posted by jda…here it is…
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/201293953565974.html
you should read the posts ther by Azeri idiots and some bystander who thinks this article is “biased” .. it is hillarious…
Hey Gayane:
saw your posts @AlJazeera: well done; proud of you.
battle the Denialists and Armenophobes everywhere in the blogosphere: that’s the ticket.
Avery jan.. I want to thank you for giving me the tools to fight these bastards… hope you don’t mind that… :)
<<Only way to settle differences is an all out war between the Turks and Armenians<<
That is a genocide threat.
Necti,
We are not Ermenians, that’s how you say it and not the rest of the world.
I do unerstand why you think we are weird. You just can’t figure out how we survived the Genocide which was suppose to wipe us out.
That ‘s resonable consern you have.
Ed, don’t blame necati for his lack of education. He is a 2nd grade drop-out and visits this site on his weekend pass from Turkish mental institution. He forgot to take his medicne with him again.
Ararat,can’t stop laughing!You made my day together with the coming week end as well.He takes few medicines & not just one!
YES MERA.. Ararat jan… du demq es… :) mersi for the laugh.. vayyy es inch lav er… isakakanits verchner..lol
“YES MERA.. Ararat jan… du demq es… mersi for the laugh.. vayyy es inch lav er… isakakanits verchner..lol”
love you too..!
Գայանե ջան, լուրջ մտքով գրեցի ինչ որ գրեցի էս անխելք անգրագետ «նեջաթի» մասին, որովհետեւ թրքական սայթերում էլ աւել անկիրթ ու հակա-հայ ստեր կը գրի.
Իսկ հիմա երբ գրածս կարթում եմ, քո նման խնդալսա գալիս…լօլ
Ararat jan. lav kertsnum em et angrafet anormalin bayts shat surun dzevov. Apres.
I have posted couple of times but it seems the posts did go through or were filltered by AW but in any case, i know necati insults us and our ancestors by calling us “gaymanians” . He used this word few times on the same article. and he went to far as to say something nice about me too on Aljazeed article that i posted above. He said something like “hayuhi (Gayane) is ermenian black propaganda machine and she posts everywhere the same thing….”
He does not lnow that no matter where his ugly behind goes someone always will get him including myself from spreading lies and distortion.
vtiger,
I forgot to tell you. I am in Rize at the moment. i can come to Ankara or anywhere you &avery want.
necati,say hello to my fellow Hamshen Armenians.Meanwhile you’re nearer to Yerevan than Ankara come my bosh adam.
AW editor,
do you think this message means anything without the main one you censored ?
Genis.. what did you forget to put your first name or you got tired of it?
You are not anywhere close to Yerevan or Diaspora which is why you are talking out of lying, cheating, genocidal you know what…..
I bet 100% the min you get closer to our borders, you will feel the strong tide of pride, love, and strength and that ALONE will make you pee in your pants.. and you will slowly get your paws back to the hole you came from..
so stop acting like a hawk and remain in your natural skin… as a chiken…
Necati. I suggest you stay there and never get out of that hole …..
“Praise, Rewards, and Promotion for Pardoned Azeri Murderer”
Exactly what I would expect from N. Korea or rebels hostage takers.
Yes metasoomem, yete Azerinere kesksen amen inche vor iransa patahoom mexhke ksen Hayastani yev Yaheri vra vor Safarovi mexhke kichanen.
Hayere, amen ashkharhoom yet Hayastani Handrapetutyone petke misht ezgoysh lini.
I wish to reitrate what I posted couple days ago… it is not a new happening shall we say..the tatar turco azeris in 1905 killed , murdered over 5000 Armenians there. and all conveniently forget the 1.5 miilion massacred, by elder brother great Turkey (ottoam and Kemalist Turkey) Our main RATHER BASIC QUESTION Himnahartz is latter.One axe murderer is not all we are to settle the 97 yr old Genocide perpetrated on us the Eviction from our ancestral homes, destruction of all churches monasteries in Wesstern armenia…….
Nakhijevan , Shahumian. We still have these pending Mr. Ali or Ali off or Aliev…
Accounts are accounts and are to be setlled, sooner or later.Asala, Justice comandos were not terrorists for thsoe who do not know how denominate them .latter only comesw close to they should be denpominated and their as well.The pulled ¨¨Correction acts of Vilonce¨against ONLY TURKISH diplomats and afew Airlines(Turkish) nothing like the other Euro or other terrorits who aimless enter into Supermarkets on crowded sea shores and bomo the iinocent people there….
Our boys stopped it when war brpoke out in NK Artsakh and went to Liberate it.We now have 2 independent rpublics to thje chagrin of the turco azeris and shall keep them with tooth and nails this time overf .yeah the Ermenis are now well armed and will be further armed and have many an ally next door!!!!
I am an Iranian Azerbaijani, and I am writing by my real name.
Guys, whoever you are either an Azeri, Armenian, Turkish or Persian, believe me we have a great chance to change our world, to make our world a better place to live for ourselves and our children. Lets love each other, lets communicate with a decent language. I have seen many nice Armenian People. I have seen many nice Azerbaijani People. And, I have seen many nice Turkish People. I have enjoyed my time a lot spending with them.
I met an Azeri student from Nakhchivan who missed a lot his Armenian classmate from elementary school who had the same name as he has: Araz! I met an Armenian student originally from Baku, and he talked to me about his mother’s greatest desire to visit the grave of his grandparents in Baku before she dies.
I believe one day we, either Iranian Azerbaijani, Turkish, Armenian, or Azerbaijani, we gather around Araz and celebrate our friendship.
With my sincere love, Eslam
I also wish we could respect one another and live in peace. I have known and liked individual Turks and Azeris. But relationships between individuals is not the main problem. The root of the problem lies with the bellicose actions of the leader of Azerbaijan and the immoral denial of the Genocide by the Turkish government. The leaders of these two countries refuse to respect the rights of Armenians. I am ready to live as a neighbor with anyone willing to respect me and my right to self-determination.
well said Boyajian:
Eslam Noutie: if you genuinely want peace between our peoples, than individuals like you must – must – prevail over people like Pres Aliyev and Azerbaijan MP Pashayeva: they are the ones who glorify the axe murder of an Armenian.
There is no grey area: it’s stark Black & White: an Armenian man, sleeping, defenseless, was hacked to death by an Azeri Psyaxopath for one reason, and one reason only: he was an Armenian.
And frankly, it is getting a little tiring to read these posts from pseudo-peace lovers preaching to Armenians about peace: Armenians are not the ones that exterminated 2 million Turks: Turks exterminated 2 million of my defenseless ancestors – including old men, old women, middle aged women, young women, children, and babies: born and unborn.
Enough already.
İslam Nuri,
You are too romantic.
What ermenians want is not something human like you wrote.
Read AW more and you will see their real target.
Anti-Türkism is a life style for them. No way to be friend with them. Again, read more.
(AW editor, i know you will censor me again. Bet ? )
Avery jan.. ditto.. I am also tired of reading about why can’t Armenia and Turkey or their step brother Azerbaboons live in peace.. SERIOUSLY??? Why is it that Armenia needs to be in every comment, post about “why can’t they just get along”…. Armenia has not done anything to be lumped into such suggestions… because it is not Armenia who threatens, kills, and buys off politicians with money to cover the skeleton in the closet..Armenians are not genocidal physcos as Azeris and Turks (minus the intelligent and HUMAN Azeris and Turks) and those “lets live in peace” and “respect one another” should be directed DIRECTLY TO Azerbajian and Turkey…
As Avery said.. enough IS enough..
necati has not only lost his marbles he is also going blind. He can’t even type the name of the person he is addressing correctly. Obviously he is unfamiliar with the concept of copy and paste. We should all chip in a few bucks and get him one of those nerdy glasses with 100 times the magnification. Something tells me he is still going to get the names wrong.
Thanks Friends, I have been indeed thrilled and humbled with you kind responses.
As I mentioned I am an Iranian, and my country proudly in the past and in the present is the truly supporter of Armenian republic. You will simply find it by a huge and vital Iranian investment in the Armenian energy sector next to many other great possibilities that is provided by both positive Iranian government and people attitude toward Armenian. And, I personally hope that we can increase the level of our regional cooperation. But, I also hope you guys understand that Iran is strongly committed in the territorial integrity of all international and regional sovereign states. Affirming a regional separatist group will certainly ignites other separatist groups in region, and this is something that both Iranian people and government wants to avoid.
I personally do not know that much about Turkish and Azeri republics, but lets open a new chapter in our history: a chapter full of love, friendship, and understanding. Frankly, the aforementioned person, Ramil Safarov, he should not be bothered to be jailed or hero-welcomed, the sick person needs hospitalization, and a good treatment.
Eslam Nouri,there is no territorial integrity understanding when the enslaved population (in this case the Armenians of Artsakh(Karabagh)) democratically vote for their independence.
Remember the republic of Czechoslovakia & how theCzechs & Slovaks separated from each other democratically,humanely,negotiating & without war?
But no,according to the Turks whether in Turkey or aliyevistan we the Armenians have always to be slaves & conquered & they start massacring us in Sumgait,Baku,Kirovabad & attack on Artsakh & surprise surprise they lose.
With their next attack we will hit them with such a force that we will set them back 100 years.Unfortunately that is the only way for them to understand that we want to be free & independent on our 4000 years plus homeland.
Eslam Nouri:
you keep mentioning that you are Iranian. I frankly find it hard to believe that a Persian/Iranian would use the phrase “Affirming a regional separatist group”.
How dare you: a “separatist group” ?
Who are you calling a “separatist” group ?
My Armenian people who lived in South Caucasus for thousands of years ?
Who were ethnically cleaned by foreign Turkic invaders from East and Central Asia ?
Armenians, like Persians, are indigenous to the region. We have been indigenous to our lands for thousands of years. We are genetic cousins. We have had some problems, but have been good neighbors for thousands of years.
The real separatists are the Turkic tribes that invaded our lands.
The same Turkic tribes that forced their language on the Northern Iranian people and the province of Azarbaijan.
FYI: Eslam Nouri. The fake state of ‘Azerbaijan’ with a country name stolen from Iran, calls Iranian province of Azarbaijan, quote, Southern Azerbaijan (sic).
Same separatist Turkic invaders who call Armenia, quote, Western Azerbaijan (sic).
It is logically impossible to be a, quote, “separatist”, in one’s own homeland.
Dear Avery,
Thanks for your warm and ecstatic response. I have used to use the same vocabulary in the context of great and old Persia long time ago! However when I graduated from the most prestigious Iranian university, and when I tried many jobs, soon I realized that in the old and great Persia, twice bigger than Turkey and Armenia combined, I cannot afford to rent a ten square meter room to move out from my parents place. I left the great and old Persia and replaced it with an absurd dream for a better life in west. Now, it is being almost a decade that I have left great and old Persia, and living pay check to pay check trying an uttermost effort to keep the least that I have got like as millions of people out there. I am indeed not thousand years old, and I will not survive it through coming thousand years as well. I am 32 years old, and I will hopefully have merely few next years to live healthy and to struggle in this age of social Darwinism.
I admit that I might be wrong, but race, ethnicity, and religion are always used as tools to drive the mass people in the interest of few. I am Iranian but do not have a religion, and I think that nature is more unfair and untidy than that to require an intelligent design.
I love peace, and I love people, and I do believe we deserve a better life. But ongoing conflicts, everywhere, generates worldwide corruption, and the corruption needs an ongoing conflict. The act of Mr. Aliyev can only be understood in this context. It is, however, the greatest tragedy of our time that 18 years old kids are being driven out of schools to get their lives to be played with those who already accumulated billions.
Sincerely yours, Eslam