In the newly released No Higher Honor: A Memoir of My Years in Washington, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice brags about her efforts to kill the Armenian Genocide Resolution in Congress in 1991 and 2007, dismissing the genocide as “something that had happened almost a hundred years before” and about which “there are many historical interpretations.”
Rice reveals how in 1991, as the acting special assistant for European affairs for the Bush Administration, she was tasked with the responsibility “to mobilize an effort to defeat the [Armenian Genocide] resolution in the House of Representatives.”
“The Turks, who had been essential in the first Gulf War effort,” Rice remembers, “were outraged at the prospect of being branded for an event that had taken place almost a century before—under the Ottomans!”
“Back then I had succeeded in my assigned task,” Rice congratulates herself, noting that in the years that followed, presidents and secretaries of state continued “to fight off the dreaded Armenian genocide resolutions,” pushed forward, of course, by none other than “the powerful Armenian American lobby.”
Pulling a page from the Turkish state’s official narrative on 1915, Rice notes that the massacres of Armenians are better left to scholars. “Tragic” as these deaths were, “it was a matter for historians—not politicians—to decide how best to label what had occurred,” she observes.
Rice then proceeds to discuss her second encounter with the “dreaded” resolution in 2007, “in the midst of tension on the Turkish-Iraqi border and with Ankara’s forces on high alert.” Rice recounts how she begged House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to block the vote, and the latter said “there was little she could do.”
She continues: “Defense Secretary Bob Gates and I delivered a press statement outside the White House, reiterating our opposition and saying that our own commanders in Iraq had raised the prospect of losing critical bases in Turkey. Eight former secretaries of state signed a letter opposing congressional action on the issue.”
At this point, having already argued a few paragraphs before that 1915 was old and passé, Rice repeats herself: “All this occurred over a resolution condemning something that had happened almost a hundred years before.”
The former secretary of state then notes that the Bush Administration persuaded Ankara that everything possible was being done to prevent a vote. The administration eventually succeeds in its efforts.
Rice proceeds to chastise Congress’ tendency “to grandstand on hot-button issues.”
“This was all the more galling,” she adds, “because the democratically elected Armenian government had little interest in the resolution. In fact, it was engaged in an effort to improve relations with Turkey, and it didn’t need it either.”
In two pages, Rice manages to repeatedly trivialize and deny the Armenian Genocide; mention, twice, that it’s a disputed, century-old issue; rehash the official Turkish narrative; and brag about killing its recognition efforts twice!
No higher honor indeed!
Dr. Khatchig Mouradian
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Be- I- Cee- Tee-Cee-H
Unbelievable. The statement sounds like she has a two digit IQ
What do you expect from Qaddafi’s dream girl. She was the most unqualified Secretary of State. Her qualification was no higher then may be a secretary…
I wonder if she would have done the same if it had been the Civil Rights movement they were pushing through.
It was on her watch as a National Security Adviser Turks denied our Army access to Iraq, thus changing the flow of invasion. We are paying for it until today. She should look in the mirror and see the failure that she has been for the US. What she did to the memory of the GENOCIDE victims is secondary to that. Pathetic…
She says that the matter should be left to historians. It is unfortunate that a woman who holds political office is apprently unaware that hundreds of highly esteemed scholars have repeatedly acknowledged the Armenian Genocide.
John K, I disagree that she was unqualified for the job. She is/was an esteemed professor at Stanford University teaching politics which is perhaps WHY she felt the way she did about it. It is “just politics” to her. It doesn’t *affect* her. That’s why I continue to ask…if it had been civil rights, would she have worked to hard to “kill it?” I think she would have had some connection to it…or, is she the consummate political scientist?
Once again, all of you constantly prove our point…Anyone who voices anything other than what ALL OF YOU want to hear is immediately demonized!! This proves that none of you will ever be able to handle the TRUTH, thus there will never be any real debates for a closure and a rekindling of bonds between us! Too bad really. It’s a good thing that Condi didn’t post here on AW…the editorial board would never have let a single post of her’s get through!
John K,
OMG…so you are actually more qualified than Condi, whom you say is no better than a secretary? Doooo tell! This, I’ve got to see. Obviously, since you made such a brash statement, you’ll have noooo problems submitting YOUR resume of qualifications to this site! I’l sure that any president will then select you for their Sec. of State!
Two words: Affirmative Action… “Esteemed” my a…
You must be a turk or a sympathizer…
The TRUTH is, most of my mother’s and my father’s families were massacred during the GENOCIDE, and Condy is proud to kill a mere recognition of that? How low can someone stoop??????
Let’s be fair it’s all justified under what is in the best interest of the US. Politics as usual and I have said for years to all my Armenian friends that we wasted millions lobbying Washington against all the odds. Take a page out of the leftist propaganda machine. We should have spent those millions investing in brainwashing College students with Armenian language and history courses to keep the flame alive. As for the Civil Rights movement, that too will be a hundred years old one day but the country will continue to pay for it despite electing the first black President in 2008. He turned out to be a duplicitous one but the entire Armenian community in the US makes excuses for him. Upon arriving at the G20 summit today the first person he saw and hugged was Erdogan and he then shook hands with all the others, hello! Does anyone who reads this board actually believe that Hilary has been a better Secretary of State? What qualifications does she have? Hasn’t she sold us out or is it because she’s a Democrat that makes it easier to swallow. Not that I think very highly of Condi but at least she was schooled in area. Hilary has overseen and encouraged the fall of two secular Arab states (Egypt and Libya), which without argument will become Islamic states. I cannot believe that this administration actually thinks that there is such a thing as “moderate Islam”. Ask all those Armenian families who died during the Iranian revolution and those who were sent to the front lines of the 8 year war against Iraq for the Islamic Revolution. The West is paying for the errors of the Carter Admin to this very day. Iran exported Hisbollah and infected the ME with this Islamic extremism.
John K. Robert is well known around these parts to us old hands. He (or they) is a confirmed AG Denialist Turk-oglu. Don’t let the Anglicized name fool you.
John K.
I feel your pain but for these politicians emotion or empathy only counts if it fits their agenda. Politics is a dirty business and is conducted without any morality. It’s not personal. Just look at how Obama who harped on about the Genocide in Darfur when Bush was President. Once President he did nothing for the people of Darfur. It was a good cause when bashing Bush and then it became a non issue because it would cause him more political damage than benefit. The same applies to both parties.
The Human Rights policy of US. A pinnacle of hypocrisy. As for Hillary: I better not state my opinion of madam Sec….
The current US administration is worse then ever seen. Utter failure…
Holocaust happened 70 years ago, slavery happened 150 ago, Armenian Genocide happened almost 100 years ago, so what? Condi suggesting forgetting and not condemning anything that happened in past?
Robert keoroglu!, facts are facts no matter how much the turkish governments spend by buying denialist authors and such.Please read various dependable European sources.You try and manipulate and drag on your denialist rant buttt the truth will concur eventually.We (the Armenians ) will never give up never again will let anything like this happen again.Pull head outta your anus because that’s where you are getting your sty ideas and rants!
Condi Rice you have disgraced the honorable name of USA by selling your soul for 30 gold pieces,.Shame on you!
Dr. King would be so” proud” of her. Shameless creature
Robert,
Condi Rice preferred Turkish delights over slavery recognition…Turkish bribe givers knew very well Condaleeza’s secret connection with Gaddafi regime…they knew how Condi’s played piano for “Gaddafi baba” in his luxurious Arabian style summer tent!! Do you know where is Gaddafi today?? Yes he is buried in an unmarked desert grave covered with dirt and sh**…I wonder if Condaleeza can play Amazing Grace melody, with her beautiful, long polished fingers, for the last time, in the middle of Libyan desert!!What a faithful women!!
well,
i am glad she is proud of her achievements,
after all, besides killing the armenian genocide, she was one of the constructive minds and instruments that led to the present day mess in the U.S. and the world in general
yap-robert bey,
she is really qualified!!!!
and if you believe she is your peoples’ friend, that’s great, one can never have enough self-less, no special interest friends in this world,
i truly envy you for having such friends…
and by the way there will never be a true debate and closer between our people, do you think the 3rd reich would have owed up to their crimes, if hitler didn’t lose the war???
but rest assured, your day will come, justice travels in circles, and it always returns to its original destination
Imagine:
In the newly released No Higher Honor: A Memoir of My Years in Washington, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice brags about her efforts to kill the Jewish Holocaust Resolution in Congress in 1991 and 2007, dismissing the holocaust as “something that had happened almost seven decades before” and about which “there are many historical interpretations.”
Hah, she’s be crucified (no pun intended) by the press, and a social outcast.
I never understood why the US is so scared from Turkey! Americans are paying billion of $$$ to Turkey and still feel they owe them! They forgot conveniently turkish refusal to help them during the Iraki war. It’s the usual the american double standards… As for the politicians they are low life shameful scums who are interested to be elected only. Democracy my a…
For someone with her intelligence… she is an absolute moran for stating that because something happened 100 years ago.. we should ALL FORGET and move on without punishing those who did a dirty and bloody work… how unintelligent statement.. I never liked her and will never like her.. she is not someone I respect now or ever….
Oh look .. Robert (Roberts) are here yet again whining about nothing.. welcome Robert (Roberts)… but guess what? can you handle the fact that you are a liar??? hmmmm??? stop bashing Armenians who talk about the truth… i know it hurts but instead of using reverse physcology, you might want to really get help because you sound like a dillusional individual..
Why do people get suprised and even angry about “real politik”? The US just like so many other countries pratices real politik, If it is not in the intrests of US to recognise the genocide it will not recognise it. But that may change.
What does not change is the fact of the genocide, like slavery and the jewish holocost. History does not wait for goverments to recognise what has happend.
After reading many books about the genocide of the Armenians, I understand the emotions and even get angry of the injustice that happend to the christians of Asia Minor. I have found through books and what I see in the streets of Oslo, Copenhagen and so many other western cities is that many muslims (if not all) are eval humans. When combining the evals of turks and the evils of the coran we get genocide of everyone.
May God have mercy on us all.
Im all for revisionist historians, Slavery never occurred in the US, we just had really inexpensive nonresident alien day laborers. The 13th Amendment was really immigration reform. Turks never massacred Armenians they helped our ancestors move from war torn modern day Turkey and during the move we drowned, raped, hung our leaders and burned ourselves.
Jan,
You are absolutely right about “real politik.” However, don’t you think she is being too cynical when she brags about it? She should be ashamed of herself, rather than put it so prominently in her book as an achievement. Apparently, she is clueless about many things.
The sad part is that denial (or non-recognition) of the Armenian genocide is still genocide and keeps the evil process going. Today, we have the slow genocide of a blockade imposed by Turkey (normally only occurs during acts of war) that causes a choke-hold on Armenia, preventing economic development and is once again forcing the displacement of Armenians out of Armenia in order to survive. We have Artsakh but not really – it’s in political limbo and always threatened. Russia is protecting Armenia with its military but what will happen if it is not within Russia’s political interests — it seems that we are never in anyones political interest. Our institutions are failing. Once the silicon valley of the former Soviet Union and its center of advanced higher education, Armenia and our culture is on a steep slope of death — yes, genocide. The Turks know what they are doing.
Missak
Sadly, you are absolutely correct. When you deny genocide, you endorse the actions of the perpetrators. You become one of them. You are also correct about the effect of border closing and about “the steep slope of death” we are on. So, what can we as individuals do about it? We need to support the political party and the church that have stood behind The Cause no matter how difficult or dangerous the times. We need to affirm who we are, who our murdered fathers were: we need to re-learn our language, engage in our faith, our ancient customs. And we need to demand integrity and democracy in RA so our people can remain there in peace and prosperity. Here is one other very simple, effective thing that all Armenian university stuents throughout the world can do. Every university library has a budget they must spend within the year. They look to professors and students to let them know the books they require for research. Every student can ask their university library to buy books relating to the Armenian Genocide. They will be surprised by the appreciative response by librarians. The 100th anniversary is coming up. Think about doing papers on its meaning. Make your professors and other students aware of what being Armenian means, of the genocide in our history, of the reason there is a diaspora. Stop being silent about our history. Start with simple things that are easy for anyone to understand. When your family doctor asks if there is any history of a particular illness in your family, answer correctly. You do not know. Your family’s medical history was lost when they were murdered. But not everything was lost. Re-claim your language, faith, songs, recipes, dances, art, literature. Talk about being Armenian. Get rid of the condaleezas of the world. Vote.
Silly Robert, don’t think for a second that Condi is your friend. She is a politician who can do magic tricks with words and facts depending on the real politiks behind the scenes. Politicians have the ability to turn a sows ear into a silk purse. Beware. The agenda is a covert one that has nothing to do with believing Turks are right and Armenians are wrong. Don’t be so naive. And don’t get too comfortable. Turkey may yet implode.
Realpolitik for sure, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
How a women of color, who must be aware of what her people experienced and suffered in the United States, could be so heartless to the plight of Armenians is incomprehensible.
If her comments were taken and just a few words replaced, to make them relevant to the plight of Blacks/Coloreds/Negroes (terms used over past 100 or so years), I would like to know how Condi would feel/think if the special assistant to the Secretary of State made the following comments about the hangings, killings, beatings, lynchings, massacres, discrimination, destruction of family, stealing of children, etc. treatment of Blacks/Coloreds/Negroes in the United States.
“It was something that had happened almost a hundred years before” and about which “there are many historical interpretations.”
“The Confederates, who had been essential in the War of Independence effort, were outraged at the prospect of being branded for an event that had taken place almost a century before—under the law of the land!”
The treatment of Blacks/Coloreds/Negroes are better left to scholars. “Tragic” as these deaths were, “it was a matter for historians—not politicians—to decide how best to label what had occurred,” she observes.
“All this occurred over a resolution condemning something that had happened almost a hundred years before.”
Robert with the black avatar, the above comment was addressed to the other Robert with the red avatar. I enjoyed your tongue in cheek comment above.
I like what Chris J said above. We should invest our pro-Armenia dollars in educating our youth, and college students in general, of our history, language and culture. Do we need a museum to serve as a memorial for what once was more than a living, breathing, Armenian speaking, music-making, history writing, growing and expanding testimony to what being Armenian is?
To begin with the U.s. terminology ¨Killing¨ a resolution is unbecoming for politicians and diplomats to use.A better wordd such as refuse, turn down ought to be in use.(viewpoint)
Indeed Boyajian is right that funds should be used towards educating our students as to our language, history and culture. For this i have an idea,further below..
W/rgds to Chris J that ¨inthe interests of U.s. politics..¨ that Ms. Rice neutralized the Armenian Genocide Recognition,not quite right, especially using the hard core,so to say word KILL.Nobody , i repeat no power in the World can do that to a Just CAUSE.It may go down a bit temporarily .BUT it promise and swear TO IT , It will rfe surface as many times as need be..so much for that.
Now coming back to funds ,Armenian funds spent for Lobbying it is plain WASTE!!!nada mas, nothing more..instead as Above Boyajian´s, PLUS my bit here below.
if the Cafesjian project (after lawsuit is resolved) comes to life to have that HUGE bldg, well situated in D.C. ,,,ONLY A SECTION OF IT COULD HOUSE memorabilia!!!
Rest ought to be a much more lively one.That of housing Armenian learning centre.
For History teaching, holding symposiums, conventions what not .All Armenian Centre in the Centre of D.C.Otherwise just to house a few memorabilia in such a HUGE STRUCTURE…AN ABSURDITY.What is more why copy the Jews…they may do things grandiosely but please, they are at the very least ten times more in numbers here in the U.s. and probably a hundred times more ECONOMY WISE!!!
So armenian stop being pompous(said in friendly way) Referring to our BBB´s this trasnlates into Bishops,Bosses and Benefactors ( a phrase made up and used by Canadian Armenian writer ARA Baliozian.Which is to be changed to Thinkers, activists and realizers….
So be it.
good post Perouz. lots of practical advice.
Stanford University students and alumni — perhaps a critical word to the university administrators voicing outrage at the outrageous position one of its professors/administrators has shamelessly embraced?
http://fsi.stanford.edu/people/condoleezzarice/
Realpolitik aside, as we all know, there are very precise words for those who take money and deliver a service in response. Despite her academic credentials and tendency to talk about herself as a Russian scholar, it seems this all fell to the wayside when certain people and governments waved a paycheck in her face. Yes, it was her job and she was doing the bidding of the government that hired her, but to be intellectually dishonest is nothing to brag about.
‘In addressing the question of whether it is better to be loved or feared, Machiavelli writes, “The answer is that one would like to be both the one and the other; but because it is difficult to combine them, it is far safer to be feared than loved if you cannot be both.” ‘
No public person in the US dare NOT affirm their absolute loyalty to the absolute veracity of the Jewish Holocaust (as they justly should).
Any politician that goes against Israel will be starved of re-election funds and disappear into a political black hole.
They will be mercilessly tarred and feathered in public.
Jewish motto: “Never Forget, Never Forgive”
We need to adopt that motto. We need to learn many things from our Jewish-American friends.
One of our main problems is that US politicians and public figures do not fear Armenian-Americans nearly enough.
This will be corrected in the future, as the community becomes wealthier, more politically involved and sophisticated.
It takes time: Jewish-Americans have had a head start.
However, other problems are of our own: not sure how they can be corrected.
There are many amongst us who still carry the psychological scars from centuries of Ottoman subjugation – Ստրկամտություն.
An infamous recent manifestation of it was when AAA praised Speaker Pelosi for derailing the Genocide vote (!).
No Jewish organization would do that. None. Ever. She would be marked for political destruction. And it would be carried out without fail.
Yet an Armenian advocacy group issues a “Thank You” to the same politician for betraying us. If we don’t respect ourselves, why should others ?
(Note: AAA is just one example and not the only one. Many of our other leaders and organizations have shown the same ստրկամիտ trait more than once.)
Even many of the comments here lament Ms. Rice’s despicable behaviour,
but then what ?
How do we put the fear of God in someone – so the next person dares not do it again ?
Ms. Rice will make a ton of money from her book sales, with zero blowback from being a boastful AG Denialist.
She’ll laugh all the way to the bank. Anyone who denied the Jewish Holocaust would end up practically homeless here in the and in jail in Europe.
We are too quick to forget and forgive those who have crossed us.
I understand we don’t have the political power of Jews (yet), nor their level of wealth (yet), but one does not have to crawl.
Nobody respects a sychophant.
All of us need to use these infuriating insults to spur every one of us to become more successful, wealthier, and more powerful politically.
Controlled rage and righteous indignation is a great motivator: to obtain wealth and power; to then have the ability to legally punish those who do us harm.
It’s the American way.
We should use the system that exists to the extreme. Kim Kardashian has done more to put “Armenians” on the map in the US than anyone else. Most educated people have heard of or met an Armenian. Most Americans who ask me the origin of my name never really knew anything about us when I told them it’s Armenian. Now when a shopkeeper or a bank teller asks me that same questions and I tell them it’s Armenian their response is “Oh like the Kardashians!” I’m not a fan nor do I approve of their lifestyle, not judging but it’s not my cup of tea, but they reach more average Americans who watch these reality shows. Perhaps someone can convince her to take Armenian dancing lessons and or visit Armenia in her next season so as to expose Armenian culture and issues to this huge audience. She might not represent the best of Armenian values etc but she can do much to indirectly educate. As Armenians we must think out of the box. Passing an Armenian Genocide resolution has become a cause and will have no impact in real terms to us as a people who need to keep our culture alive going forward. It has totally drained our resources and taken us down the wrong road. The passing of the resolution in France didn’t really make a difference to the way the French view Armenian. However, the Armenian Genocide is taught in every secondary school in France. It’s a part of the national curriculum and falls under early 20th century history/geography in the WW1 program. Now we’re talking. We are reaching every French student who learns about the AG and Armenians.
Gina,
Yes, it is very cynical and it tells all you want to know about Condi.
Perhaps the best thing we (friends of and armenians) can do is to cultivate a positive and pro active relationship between diasporian armenians and Armenia. In that I do subscripe to the “honey” idea i heard of from Stepan Khzrtyan (I love that my name is in every armenian last name ;)) at TEDx Yerevan, see also on youtube.
Sireli Chris yev Avery,
I’m running on the same track with both of you. We need to stand up and show the world that we are united in what being Armenian means. Here is an example of the kind of action that makes a difference, that gives us political strength. The city of Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, has a population of about five Armenians. Each year, these tireless five come together and hold an Armenian Festival. The university becomes engaged. The Moncton community wants to know who this handful of Armenians in their midst is, and they attend. Think this is just some small, insignificant event that these five people combine their labour and talent and intellect for? Think again. Last year, they invited Isabel Bayrakdarian. And she came! The airport was crowded with non-Armenians who went to welcome her. The mayor and the press were there. At this year’s Festival, they are going to show Armenian Sergei Parajanov’s The Color of Pomegranets, arguably the most beautiful film ever made in the history of motion pictures. This is the power of 5. Here’s what Saroyan said about the power of 2.
“I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered. Go ahead, destroy Armenia . See if you can do it. Send them into the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches. Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a New Armenia.”
Excellent, Avery. Your posts are always to the point and well formulated…
Like your comment *QADDAFI’S DREAM GIRL
Turks paid money to Condi Rice… so I’m not surprised. SHAME that they see as historic and not political because they mean the same thing anyway. History doesn’t happen on its own but by politics they progress in action.
Chris,
Are you serious? I’m a Turk and not an Armenian, but even I would be ashamed (no matter what my ethnicity) to use the Kardashian name anywhere in public! They’re the family that everyone loves to hate! Every talk show host makes fun of them! Go on the net and check out the comments section for any story about them (>90% are quite negative)! But hey, whatever you feel will work for you…then I say go for it dude!
It is refreshing to discover that the adults in the U.S. government know better than caving in to an ethnic minority to the detriment of US national security interests. I think all Americans (except for the Armenian ones) would approve of her actions. As to the Armenian Americans, I think they once again prove their propensity for national treason, just as they did in 1915 when they stabbed their Turkish government with the Russians. Today, you Armenian Americans seem to give no damn about the security of America and the American soldiers in the Middle East. You seem to care not that critical military bases in Turkey get shut to USA use. You seem not to care how many AMerican soldiers would die as a result of having worse military support and alliance. All you care is Armenia. Which is fine. You put Armania above USA. Which makes you a traitor. I wish all Americans knew this fact about you. Although Secretary Rice seems to know this fact. Others, from the Washington Post (which called ANCA the most noxious lobbying group around) to Glen Beck, who ridiculed your claims, too have sensed it. But please dont get me wrong. I am not denying that many innocent Armenian, children and women, died at the Turkish hands in 1915. And you should never forget their memories, and should hold Turkey responsible. Then I guess that is what you are trying to do: trying to punish Turkey by calling the events a genocide (which would cause tremendous damage to modern Turkey), and in the process you care not whether it was indeed was a genocide or not (in the technidal sense). You just want to slap that appelation because that is the worse one you can give in punishment of Turkey. Truth, in such emotional matters of vendetta, matters not
Obama carries on the Rice tradition of obfuscating the fact of the Armenian Genocide. My father that survived the march into the desert is now gone and I rail against an America that will not recognize the suffering that our people endured and how much we lost. After I am gone will my children face the same American denial?
Robert,
LOL! Bash Kim all you want but she has made over $80m doing what she does. She trumped Paris Hilton. Those of us who can’t understand how and who watches them are unfortunately the minority. This family has connected with the new generation of “me” in America and they are milking it for all they can.
Now “brother” Robert I hold no grudges against the Turks of today. After all they have been brainwashed to think ill of Armenians and that this AG issue is a figment of a lying and deranged race. So for three generations your government has lied and cheated you from the truth. Actually your government has been used and abused by the West as the AG is your Achilles heel and you have done anything and everything just so you can continue to deny it. The multi-millions if not billions in lobbying Europe and the US has made you the laughing stock of the world. At best if you been able to have the word “alleged” thrown in front of the term Armenian Genocide it has been through the force of money and favors. Ask any US Congressman, Senator or lobbyist off the record and they will tell you there is no doubt about the Armenian Genocide, it’s a known fact. However, we get so much out of Turkey by putting the resolution on the table every time they don’t do what we want. Every decent educated Turk who has lived or frequently traveled outside Turkey knows the truth. They just don’t know how they can now go back to their people and tell them the denial has been a lie perpetrated for years. One day an enlightened Turkish leader will come forward and make that courageous step forward. Perhaps in our lifetime, but for as long as the lie is perpetuated by your government the high price the Turkish people are paying will also continue. That price can be measured in big dollars and the disgrace an entire people are judged by their piers in the world.
My Grandmother, who spoke fluent Turkish and survived the Genocide, most of her family did not, didn’t hold a grudge. She used to say there are good Turks and there were bad Turks. You can’t blame a whole Nation for the evil few that planned and executed the Genocide. So, Robert as much as you expect us to hate you we don’t. We hate your propaganda and your lies but not you. We feel sorry for you because the one who lives in denial of his wrongs carries that burden with him everyday. There’s no escaping the truth it’s like living in darkness, eventually you will come out into the light!
Kerim,
Accepting genocide is not punishing Turkey it is a reality, where most civilized Western world scholars accepted… 21 world nations, 43 US States, European Union, accepted and recognized the Armenian genocide., including GENOCIDE word creator Mr. Raphael Lemkin ..
The Genocide Word by Raphael Lemkin
Armenian Genocide recognition – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kerim, I defy you to specify exactly what kind of terrible thing might happen to Turkey if it honestly admitted to its own people the truth about the Ottoman Armenians from 1915 – 22. The reality is, nothing would happen….nada! Turkey – or at least the paranoid ultranationalists in the government, military and Ergenekon, are apparently afraid of ghosts and the truth. They are afraid of the invisible. The odd thing is, deep down, they KNOW the whole truth, but have been peddling lies and have passed laws to enforce their lies. They are defending the criminal behavior of the CUP, as if the rest of the world did not see what happened. Unless Turkish politicians, ‘historians’ (not really – since they peddle lies and propaganda) and others change their tune, Turkey will remain a place where the underlying pathos colors everyone’s mindset. Remember the truth will set you (and everyone else), free. Yes…it’s true…it really does work that way, Kerim-jan. Try it, you’ll like it. It will feel good. That, more than anything else, will enhance Turkey’s image in the world, while continuing to try and hide the truth and actively abusing another minority, the Kurds, will not. So, forget about Armenians – if you really want to help Turkey, you must help it overcome its own dishonesty about history.
Kerim you think asking America to stand for truth in spite of Turkey’s threats is a traitorous act? That is pitiful. I think that politicians who allow another nation to dictate to us what our domestic policy should be is traitorous. Who do they serve? No one would suggest to Jews that they are traitorous when they promote a pro-Israeli agenda in their lobbies. Why should Armenians be accused of this just because we ask our nation to acknowledge a known historical fact in an effort to counter the evil of genocide denial. As Chris says above, the Armenian Genocide is Turkey’s Achilles Heel. The quickest way to extinguish the power of this bugaboo is to face it and resolve the issue of compensation.
Condi Rice: How would you have reacted if the US government denied the Black peoples’ slavery and the misery that happened to them 150 years ago? Should Armenians state that it happened a long time ago and politicians should not mingle with the subject; but only historians should have worried about it? I don’t think so. I don’t think you would have been so callous and pushed a denialist agenda if the tables were turned.
Kerim– that was the most IDIOTIC comment I have ever read.. you must have a 2nd grade education.. WOW.. another dumb peanut comment in the peanut gallery.. and I thought i saw the last of them but no.. they keep showing up.. well the more the merrier because the more of you post dumb and anti-Armenian comments, the more you prove to the world how brainwashed uneducated and ditached you denalists are… bravo…
Boyajian jan– they are not capable of solving problems.. remember these ultra nationalists have no brain of their own.. their govt grinds information and spoon feeds them like a baby.. they are puppets… what they hear is what they regergitate back…
Robert the Turk (Roberts the Turks)- it seems like you are very sour that Armenians are on every corner of the world and recognized with their talent in some way.. and yes Kim is also and very smart businesswoman or else she would have be in magazines, tv shows, opening up stores, having her own lable, ect ect ect… how she presents/acts is another matter but she is known around the world.. If she was such a dumb and unpopular individual, Turkey would not have stole her image to put on a turkish magazine.. apparently they do value her worth… show me one Turk that is world known.. go ahead name one please… well.. let me save you some time.. you might not find one.. so instead of gloating about a population that can’t produce one world known celebrity, i would thank the stars that you are even allowed to comment on these pages or any other pages that is…
The movement in the United States to rescue and provide relief to Armenians during the Abdul Hamid Massacres, Adana Massacres and the Armenian Genocide, was closely linked to other social reform movements which were rocking the United States during the late 19th and early 20th century. Many of those individuals who were involved in the anti-slavery movement, labor movement, prohibition and Social Gospel etc, were heavily involved in the Armenian relief appeal. Many prominent Americans, such as Francis Willard, founder of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, were outraged at the Turkish atrocities against the Armenians. Francis Willard, representing the women of the US, sent a strong protest to the United States government to intercede and stop the killings of Armenians in 1896. During the Armenian Genocide of 1915-23, many prominent Americans, including President Wilson and his Secretary of State, William Bryan Jennings, and philanthropists such as John Rockefeller, were outraged on learning about the fate of the Armenians through the US Ambassador in Ottoman Turkey, Henry Morgenthau. A massive humanitarian relief movement was mounted in the form of the American Near East Relief (NER) organisation and every state in the US had a NER committee. Over 130,000 Armenian orphans were housed, fed, and educated in more than 200 orphanges thanks to American philanthropy. Over 110 million dollars was raised at the time for the Armenians which was an unprecedented amount in US philanthropic history. The event created the first celebrity humanitarian through Jackie Coogan, the wrold’s most famous child actor at the time. Condoleeza’s ability to brag about her efforts in stopping genocide recognition and not be marginalised by mainstream American society is a result of the failure of Armenian Americans in not having the American connection to the Armenian Genocide sufficiently publicised. We need to get the event taken out of the “Armenian Ghetto” and “Genocide Ghetto” and placed in American mainstream history. Academics in the US need to research and write articles in mainstream American journals, newspapers, magazines etc on the many individual American stories of Armenian relief. The Armenian genocide in essence is also an American story. Through better knowledge of America’s response, denial of the Armenian Genocide actually dishonours the memory of those prominent American reformers who stood by the puritan ethos of the United States. It is those values that Condoleezza Rice has trampled on and we should make sure that this is brought to the attention of the American public.
What she did was very dirty and disrespectful, a good person can never do such a thing like that, I agree with many of you for what you said about her; and also what we must do to the people act like her, for sure as many politicians she did it believing that it was at the best of her interest, which for me is not a good excuse also, shame on her. I still believe that our main goal must be to strengthen our fatherland in any possible way we can, they need our help over there without any doubt, otherwise without a strong and healthy fatherland, unfortunately we will all suffer the consequences of the weakness, and get no respect from the others.
Wishful thinking
Of course, the underlying problem is that many modern Turks still think they are the absolute lords over the many peoples they conquered. The flaw in this thinking is that they forget that Turks really did none of the work that created such a magnificient empire. It was all done by the conquered peoples…the ‘minorities’, who were actually majorities. Yes, ‘Turks’ ran the show from the palace and the military barracks, in typical imperial fashion, but how were they fed, clothed, entertained? Where did they live? The flimsy tents of the warriors gave way to the stone creations of the Armenians, Syrians and Greeks. The wives, mothers and grandmothers of the sultans were not Turks at all, but minority women of the harem, the village and the countryside. The technical, cultural and creative genius of thousands of years was masterfully co-opted by the rulers, but it was never their own legacy. Once again, the world knows this very well. When you lift the curtain of Turkish imperial rule, standing behind it are all of those who worked to the bone and gave their lives (they actually did), on behalf of the empire. For anyone to diminish this legacy is shameful. So, give up the imperial mentality. It is old and of the past. That time is gone. Start treating everyone as equals, whether they are Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians or something else…and you will be treated respectfully in return. But, if you continue to demean those who formerly lived under your thumb as if they still do, then forget it.
Vicken is very absolutely correct. I believe, most Americans are not aware of how the contemporary Americans responded to the Turkish crimes against Armenians. It would be quite enlightening for them to find out about that. It will also highlight how much effort has been put into pushing this shameful page in urkish history under the rug.
Fistly above posts are all to the point,but question arises HOW?
How can we put an end to such like braggings ,rather wrong attitudes by American or other statesmen women,when we <DO NOT HAVE A CONCERTED Strategy?
ARMENIAN ASSEMBLY, ARMENIAN NATIONAL COMMITTEEE, ? yes indeed with very limited budgets ,with more or less efforts to contradict such ¨anouncements¨ like Ms. Condoliza Rice´s.
What we need is NEW ,altogether new Mobilization,around what I have modestly but insistently trumpeting:-that of getting organized around ASSOCIATION of some 15 Fields of Professions % on the scene already. Then through members of these, plus a small delegation to appeal to our Magnates to form the Nucleus(working capital 9 of the NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND,their initial investment around a billion dollars, WHICH IS FEAsible by all means, have in view KK.L &richard Manoogians, Gerard Cafesjian, Eduardo Ernekian, Vatche manoukian of London the bros. in Moscow who have reached the billionaires rank and once Nucleus is there in Geneva, CH, governed by their moinetary experts , the miilionaires chipo in ,all the way down to 100, thousand ollar investors to thousand and to a 100 dollar investment .JUST GO FIGURE OUT TO WHAT HUGE FUND THAT WILL REACH TO.The Fund will be ,I viz. re invested in Safe Govt. bonds of safe areas such as Sweden Norway finland etc., who as yet do not BUDGETARY DIFICITS and then to others such u.K.USA e tc., interests earned arojn 5%, of which half reinveseted, rest to capital that LOANS, doesw not give , monies to especiallyu -in the fist place- who wish to REPATRIATE, then to small and medium entrepreneurs farmers in RA/Artsakh and in any Armenian communityu country.For this FUND is ,will be a National one.The old Diaspora is there to stay let us not self deceive ourselves and others…thius fund should be For Armenity and a PERMANENT….and then
Indeed we can confront such Anti Armenian errors and correct them properly.Start many a project that we still need to realize re Genocide education application of same such as in Swiotzerland (considered a crime if denied) France to follow ‘ hopefully soon?
best to all.
Gaytzag Palandjian
Gina
Not the people are Blind
Put Politics induce their feet
in Peoples Eyes
To end them blind
Crush their egos
Not to utter any facts…
If 44 out of 50 USA states
Recognized the genocide
Can we call them blind…?
SP
If only Condi had catered to the wishes of the hate lobby, she would have been a model American, a person of integrity and honesty. She missed a wonderful chance it seems.
Dear gaytzag,
I have 50 good none Armenian friends.. (including Jews) I email some of AG news to them…and I am sure they send my email to their own separate group of friends …this is how Jews in North America spread their news toward none Jewish friends and media, and I also co operate with them…this is the best way…sending AG to our Armenian friends is not the only solution….most N. American Turks know about AG…the only Turks who don’t are the people of Turkish republic, that 24 hrs. a day are under bombardments of their propaganda machine in Turkey!! 1.e. most educated and Persian speaking Iranians in Iran know well about Armenian genocide, because of Armenians living in Iran, they speak publicly, discuss publicly and demonstrate during April 24 every year!!people have ears, eyes and brain, and they won’t forget!!
Dear Grish,
I appreciate your thoughts.But I refuse to copy anything from either Jews or any other.
We Armenians ought to have our own Lobbies ,our own org.s and an All Armenian national Invesst. Trust Fund. We are no moe a people(pueblo).We are a Nationa/State.
Do you realize what a long way we have come through 3 Republics.If there are shortcomings,which country state does not have.Consider our huge DIASPORA, that is so far a non-head,(many heads indeed, more will as yet ,emerge, for that is our character, VOJ.Khasiat, if you will. but none the less we MUST HEAD TOWARDS A Supreme Diaspora Council. For that is where OUR REAL POWER RESIDES,Both in human resources(PCA´s,prof. col. Assoc. memebers) and their FINANCIAL P O W E R .
Once we achieve that then we can accomplish many an objective. otherwise the present structures(thanks to all of them) are <SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH!!!
Condi Rice – yes – hope she voted against aid for Africa and told the blacks in America that there was never any slavery. Perhaps it’s perception.
Dear Gaytzag, do you know why our democracy is not working properly in Armenia?? and our oligarchs take advantage of the situation???yes I am sure you read my mind there is no unity among ourselves and lack of confidence …Armenians are born to be individualistic people, this is why we have more, inventors, army generals, too many scientists, doctors, artists and builders, of course when we are among others, but when we are together, we all have different opinion, lack of trust and no respect..I believe if we connect our resources and knowledge and God given wonderful creative brain of ours together, the leadership problem will be solved, our “unity” will be resettled, and AG will be recognized officially in USA for the first and last time!!We don’t need fake “Monaleeza’s” smiley picture, for another 96 years!!
I think Ms. Rice might (rightly) bristle if anyone of us chose to use another euphemistic word for slavery, but she fell into the trap of speaking for her masters, who are indentured to the Turkish state and its propaganda. By defending murderous CUP criminals who conducted a genocidal campaign, she became an accomplice in that denial. We know she’s not stupid, but then, intelligent people do very stupid things all the time, don’t they? That she would defend this falls into the same category as her defending all the criminal actions of the Bush administration. She chose to look past them and even justify them. Is she really all that different from the CUP masterminds? They did the same thing.
Grish
Your way of letting others know about genocide is very important…
When I forwarded my poem about Genocide to the British editor Of Conversation Quarterly Journal…He did not know about it …Can you believe…!
All the Beduins know about Armenian genocide…they heard from their parents and some have Armenian grandmothers…who died already…I have collected 15 families at least…Some princes of Saudi Arabia have Armenian grandmothers as well…Like Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal from his mother side Mona El-Sulh.
SP
We judge the foreign policy on moral grounds. It is based purely on the political expediency of “interests”. As Turkey moves closer to its dream(or at least Erdogan’s) of being a regional power, it must choose the West or Islam. To straddle in the middle with limit its power. With the emergence of Islamic regime’s in Libya and Egypt, already in Iran and de facto control on Lebanon with Hezbollah’s veto, they will choose Islam for power.
The result be be a slow separation with the West and the U.S. Our day in coming. Turkey is a fractured society….Islamists, Kemalists, liberals, nationalists, 20% Kurds and a hunger for regional power. Patience ….be ready.
I’m a descendent of the people Tigran slaughtered, and who then stole our ancesterial lands, between 94BC – 67BC! I demand recognition of the genocide which he and his soldiers committed among my people, the return of all of our ancient lands, AND reparations to all of my people’s (ancestor’s) descendents!! We demand that the US and the UN recognize this crime!! We demand an apology from Armenia AND the Armenian people!
Murat- IF ONLY Condi did not have the money that Turkish govt promised her for denying and stopping the AG, it would have been a different matter for her.. she would not have her big mouth open as big as she did in her book.. she would have been a pathetic lloser of a politician and would not have the funds to write a book and in such absurd tone…and you would not have the balls to speak like this…
Robert: Did you make up the gibberish about Tigran the Great by yourself or another idiot helped you? First of all, Tigran ruled Armenia from 95 to 55 BC, not from 94 to 67 BC. Under Tigran’s rule Armenia became an empire from the Caspian to the Black and to the Mediterranean Seas. But guess what? In contrast to barbarian Turks, who emerged on the world map only in the 12th century AD, instead of annexing conquered lands and making the inhabitants his subjects by way of repressions, Tigran II would install local kings and do no more than collect taxes to lessen resistance from them. Whereas Turks, as we all know, would savagely exterminate all the indigenous Christian peoples of Asia Minor and the Balkans. No historical record contains reference to any “slaughter” during Tigran’s rule, unless you’re smoking a really strong weed. Even we imagine in the scariest nightmare that Tigran “slaughtered” people, they by no means would be your ancestors. Your ancestors are nomadic tribes wandering in the steppes of Mongolia and the Altay mountains.
Robert are you telling us that you are not a Turk oghloo Turk, did yo take a DNA test lately to find out who your ancestores are, and where they came from? How many people are you willing to kill and rob by yourself one day, and then tell us that you are not a murderer and thief, just like your government does it all the time. PLZ do not try to change the subject. We are talking about Condi. Rice wrongful doing.
Robert,
I know you had some tragedy in your personal life, as a human I feel sorry for you dude!! I truly believe, that you have mental disabilities, and I wonder why AW do not sensor your comments, you become a bright and a famous color commentator in our weekly newspaper instantly, that no other Turks ever achieved this title of craziness before!!! I personally congratulate you for your new achievement, you are deserved to hold your old “Robert the Turk” title..
Robert, and what is the name of your people?
Dear Robert
If you belong to the people that Tigran slaughtered then you are free to pursue justice for the crimes that were committed as there are no statute of limitations on genocide. However, you must first prove ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that you are a descendant of those people (a name would be a good start). You will also need to show contemporary archival evidence which points to the fact that Tigran’s actions conform to the UN definition of Genocide ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. If you can do this, then I as an Armenian will be the first to apologize and will demand that the current Armenian government restore the property that was taken from your people by Tigran and provide you and your family compensation. First, the Turkish government will need to restore the property to the Armenians since you recognise in your post that the land was ruled by an Armenian King before the Turks ruled it. Then, if your assertions are correct and the Armenians did commit a genocide against your people, we will gladly give it back to your people.
Gayane, calling someone an idiot without rebutting their argument is a sign of 1) idiocy, 2) lack of imagination, 3) desperation, 4) acceptance of defeat, or all of the above. Take your comment on my education. Now, this might come as an utter shock to you, but someone disagreeing with you is not necessarily a sign of lack of education. Believing otherwise belies a delusional narcissism.
What African-American organizations does Rice belong? Does she hold any positions in these organizations? Do they endorse her opinions and actions on the Armenian Genocide and will they offer a statement to that effect or an apology.
Kerim,
Great tactic of changing the topic. Calling someone an “idiot” is quite apt in this case. She didn’t call you names. She called you an “idiot”. An idiot: a foolish or stupid person. I think that’s a very appropriate description of someone who continues to propagate lies in total denial of facts in an attempt to uphold a position. I would have to call such a person as an idiot. Calling you a “pimp” or other irrelevant names would be a sign of having a weak argument or being irrational. But an idiot you are for having an indefensible position as an intelligent and rational person wouldn’t be stupid enough. But I think you are an idiot because your position is irrational and motivated by a false sense of pride and founded on emotions and not common sense.
Dear Vicken,
You put it well. Indeed Condoleezza Rice has made it her business to trample on the values of those American puritans that you have mentioned above. Her extreme arrogance is the decedance that unfortunately exists today within the American government. Bring back those puritans and let good values and morals rein again within the American government. America used to be a role model amongst nations, even during and before the Kennedy administration.
Dear Khatchig,
I thank you for your article above that pinpoints the arrogance of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that she dares to brag about her inhuman stand against the AG and to the memory of our deceased martyrs as well as to all of us. You have been the voice for trying to educate the American youth to put it within the school curriculums . This would be the best way of publicizing and making the American people aware of our just cause.
Dear Vicken,
You have put a smile on my face with your justified mocking remarks to Robert. After all, how can he prove what our Tigranes the Great did or didn’t do during the times from 140 – 55 BCE, when indeed the Mongolian Seljuk Turks were living by the Altai mountain of the Mongolian stepes.
Kerim– i call it as I see it. your comment was absolutely idiotic.. sorry to dissapoint… there is nothing to say about idiotic comments other than just say it.. no sugar coating.. and no pretending..unfortunatelyit is what it is…
There is a difference between disagreement and flat out ANTI-ARMENIAN comments… you are confused.. please stop commenting if you are confused.. because we already deal with a confused individual on our other discussion thread and it is not beneficial for your or any one of us..as we have better things to do than try to untangle the confused minds of a denialists…here is just one part of your comment…
But please dont get me wrong. I am not denying that many innocent Armenian, children and women, died at the Turkish hands in 1915Then I guess that is what you are trying to do: trying to punish Turkey by calling the events a genocide (which would cause tremendous damage to modern Turkey), and in the process you care not whether it was indeed was a genocide or not (in the technidal sense). You just want to slap that appelation because that is the worse one you can give in punishment of Turkey. Truth, in such emotional matters of vendetta, matters not
Umm i call this PURE DENIAL…not a disagreement.. do you see anywhere that screams disagreement??? not I…
with that comment, you are basically saying that all we, the ARmenians care about and HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO than spend tireless hours to come up with ways to punish Turkey for no reason..reall??? and you call this an educated comment? is that what you are saying??? or are you totally confused…. in any case…
by the way, please show me any where in my previous comment where i called you specifically called you an idiot..labeling your comment idiotic does not constitute the individual being an idiot….. two different statements…
Thank you and have a nice day
Kerim,
I see that you’ve met the “ghost” (a.k.a. Gayane). Have you noticed that no matter how cowardly she is, how vile, how vulgar, how insultive her comments are, she and the others are beyond reproach when it comes to Mr. Mouradian and his AW editorial board crew (in other words, the AW has all of their backs)! Yet, how many of our posts, simply defending ourselves and/or responding to posed questions, are ever posted? I can tell you that perhaps 10% of my comments (and that’s a very liberal guesstimate) are actually allowed to be posted by “the gate keepers”. I’m glad that you are at least getting some of your comments posted. You’re doing a great job bro! Keep kicking butt!!
So, can you produce photos, documentation, eye-witness testimonies, news reports, government sponsored analysis or any other kind of verifiable proof of what your talking about? Very doubtful. Until that happens, good luck.
Stepan, look at your backyard and see that you have a variety of parties, such as Dashnaks, Hincaks, Ramgavars, ARF, Pro-Levon crowds, Pro-Communism crowds and so on. Don’t try to make it seem everything seems perfect in your backyard bro.
Robert the Turk (or Roberts the Turks).. how nice of you to share your thoughts.. mister rudeness.. but then again..no one invited you into the conversation… you should think about your reputation of being the lying incosistent anti-Armenian denialist… and of course about your stupid comment above… think about that and stop interjecting yourself in conversations you don’t belong to..
Chris J jan– lav asetsir.. apres… ;) well said…
Vicken jan– Robert the Turk (or the group of Roberts) is or are not capable of answering such questions.. so unfortunately he won’t be able to provide you any concrete responses… he just blurts out nonsense because he has nothing better to say…..
After reading the article and the 90 comments, it is obvious that there is a lot of emotion, but lack of recognition of the crux of the issue.
Sadly Condi Rice is not the first nor the last Secretary of State who has been against the passage of the Genocide Resolution. Indeed even Obama and Hilary Clinton reneged on their campaign promises, and once in office , shamefully changed their positions. May be, we have to wait for their memoirs to find out what lame excuses they will use to justify their immoral stance.
I might be too skeptical, but in my opinion, as long as Turkey is a member of NATO, the American Administrations’ position will not change. Turkey has been shrewd and successful in manipulating their membership in NATO, and the existence of military bases in Turkey, to blackmail the US and forcing the US government into denial of the Genocide by using various excuses, the most critical veiled under ” national security” which I strongly feel it is hogwash.
It is extremely disappointing and painfully frustrating, but unfortunately we do not know the inner workings of NATO, and what the milatary bases in Turkey are being used for. They are shrouded in secrecy. Whatever they may be, it is evident that they are potent enough to render the US government immoral and deny undisputed historical facts about the Genocide.
Our only weapon is our vote. For many elections we have been taken for granted by empty promises. Whether we are domocrates, republicans or independents, in the next election we should not vote for any Representative that has voted against the passage of the Geneocide Resolution. Also, we should not vote for Obama for reneging on his position. It is the only valid option for us, to send a clear message to Washington.
Vart Adjemian
Vart Adjemian
Micha,That’s an interesting iterrpettanion but you need to remember that 1969 was another generation and Armenian Americans were at the forefront of the Armenian Genocide recognition movement (in fact, we began it) and people were still grappling with feelings about recognition and the Genocide.Also, the medium of protest is not usually an internal expression as much as an external one which educates others (or demands change). But, then again it is art and many iterrpettanions are always welcome as long as they’re grounded in the work and its context (or lack of context).
Condi Rice was incapable in a lot of ways. Ironically it was her minority status and history of oppression of African- Americans (beginning LONG before the Armenian Genocide took place) that allowed her to be in the position she was in. Of course, in Turkey she would just be part of a despised or cleansed or exterminated group — even if they dared to tell the truth, an illegal act.
US will overlook and COVERUP what is “allies” are doing! Even when Americans get KILLED. In the 1960’s Israel purposedly attacked USS Liberty. It 34 killed crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members!
Why? So Israel could cover up war crimes.
It is the same about the genocide by Turkey against its Christians. It will cover up and overlook this CRIME!
Vart—
Theoretically you’re right, but the problem is that after the WWII and especially after the assassination of JFK and the impeachment of Nixon, the US presidents are being brought to the fore by corporatocracy and several behind-the-scene societies. John F. Kennedy acknowledged this during a speech before the American Newspaper Publishers Association in New York City on April 27, 1961. Who will become the US president doesn’t essentially matter for the recognition of the genocide and all other state matters.
“You know, by the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions… you may find you can get away with virtual presidents, virtual prime ministers, virtual everything.” — Bill Clinton
To the Ghost (a.k.a. Gayane),
Alright then, after reading your comment above, I once again challenge you to a debate! No lame denialistic excuses nor personal hurtful attacks on my family & our personal pain will be accepted from you! Since you seem to have an opinion about everything and everyone, this time you should have no problem accepting my challenge! I can back up my statements with facts…can you say the same? We’ll see. I await your response.
So, once again Robert, can you produce photos, documentation, eye-witness testimonies, news reports, government sponsored analysis or any other kind of verifiable proof or hard evidence of what your talking about? Very doubtful that you can. We are all still waiting. The problem is, as you well know, we can…we have libraries full of archives and documentation that attest to the Armenian genocide. While you have nothing of the sort. If you do, please put it on the table for all to see.
Robert the Turk (a.k.a lying inconsistent denialist)..and Roberts The Turks (still don’t know it you are a group or just one individual with mulitple personalities)…
I refer you back to the posts where I explained to you in detail as to why you don’t exist and you have nothing to say.. no one in their right mind would think you have anything intelligent to say after reading your BS about “Tigran THe Great’s Genocide of your people..” whatever that means..
Oh and better yet.. if you think I am a ghost and you expect to debate with a ghost.. then you have deep physcological problems my denialists friend.. seek a professional help…
Have a nice day..
Gayane
I will send you an apology > starting with my middle finger.
Turks in 94BC?
The cockroaches were more educated and ethnically authentic in 94BC than the Turks.
Janine,
How do you know it was because she was black that got her into that position? Competency is not a requirement to hold a position in government, and that includes the presidency. I think it was because she was on the same page as the fundementally flawed group-think that got her into the neocon club. I don’t think neocons have an affirmative action policy.
Ohhhh Rebecca jan… you should not have said that.. You know Robert the Turk is in very fragile state… that will send him off the walls… he probably will go into hysteria and something even more stupid… like He is a descendent of The great Rulers of Rome or he may have a blood line to Troy…. or something outrageous….
Gayane and Robert,
If I ever saw you too talking like this in real life, face to face, I was start laughing. Sorry, but internet discussions do not generally translate very well into the non-digital world. I’d be shaking my head and laughing.
Right Random Armenian??? I just don’t know why Robert the Turk ( or Roberts the Turks.. ) has such obsession and fixation on me…guess .i am the luckiest girl alive to get such attention from such a denialists…it is just too bad he does not get it….. what can i say?
have to love how the denialists stir everything up and then try to come out of it as heros… joking aside…it is just too sad..
Random Armenian,
I know you did not do this on purpose or it may not be a big deal, but i would like to ask that you don’t connect my name with Robert’s name… nothing against his origin or nationality, I just don’t agree with his mentality, how he thinks, what he represents and the way he expresses his anger and denialism…and I don’t want my name to be next to such a person…. so if you are addressing a comment to me, please just send it to me…
Truly appreciate it…
Thank you
Gayane
gayane
“If they can Kill…Easy to Stir…”
“They killed before they can’t kill any more… thus they enjoy to stir”
I agree…They are jokes…with their names…
And the way they write…
They will get burst …
If they are ignored…
Our Dear Gayane…Can you try…
Let them alone…now…they can’t cry
After many years when they read their style…
They will laugh and insult them selves
Why they entered on our site…
Gayane I said Ignore…
You should listen for every honest on this site…
Who can give Hearty Advice…
Sylva-MD-Poetry
This all gets back to the idea that one small word, genocide, is or has the potential to destroy Turkey, a country of 70 million, with a huge economy and a massive military force. Something is fishy. Are they, at base, really that weak, that insecure? Or, is it just a another scam? Sadly, it’s very clear that they hoodwinked a US secretary of state into carrying water for them, which calls into question her scholarly credentials, as well as her sense of truth, justice and history. Clearly, she has none. She should be embarrassed by her spineless behavior, but she’s not, which further exposes how morally bankrupt she is.
At the same time, I’ve asked Robert three times now to produce evidence to support his contention that our people decimated ‘his people’ some 2000 years ago. Where is the documentation, the photographic evidence, the historical record? It also makes me wonder who his people really are? They clearly were not Turks. So, does anyone want to venture a guess? I have no idea what or who he’s talking about.
Gayane jan,
I know exactly where you come from, I agree with you about “Robert the Turk” This die hard kemalist, thinks all the Turks are like him…, and he is anti AKP and anti Armenian in general!!
Sometimes is the best to ignore him (them), let people see his comments, smart people either Armenian or Turkish national they have their own judgements and opinion, I don’t believe this guy Robert has influence on us or other Turks in general….remember AW must keep freedom of our speech…Robert do not understand, that some of our comments also have been censored or never printed, so he thinks he is the only fall guy or a “victim” here!!You have a beautiful Armenian woman spirit may God bless you, and I appreciate way of thinking about our cause, our sad, past Armenian history, especially, when we are dealing with radical Turks!!
Those who deny the genocide distract us from our core mission: reparations and restitution. I do not care if any of these politicians make a public declaration of what the thinking global community embraces as a historical fact. The Turks know what happened; they refuse to deal with the truth because the implications are significant. Everyone else has political motivations and we try to convince them with the truth.
Gayane, don’t get too worked up over the denialists on this post. They are here for a reason. We know who we are. Just like the strong and principled saint of our church, you represent the values of our survival and prosperity. Your parents were wise to name you Gayane. Keep the faith.
Gayane, I doubt most Turks think the way Robert does. Intelligent and honest Turks understand reality and recognize the Genocide, but few know how to talk about it openly, or know what to do once they acknowledge it. That’s why we don’t hear from many here. I agree with our friends above. Ignore him.
Mersi im quyr yev eghbayrner (Sylva, Stepan and Grish jan)… dzer hstak yev sirogh xosqeri hamar…
im hamar hech kap chuni te inchqan yerkar et zzveli turq araratsa im nerveri het piti xhagha.. indz hech chi azdum.. aveli hakaraka.. im hamar enqan hachelia vor ira lezum mi akntart ktrvuma..:) bayts yes dzes shat haskanum em.. ays zzveli martik mer hamar zero en….
Karekin- i have to say you will be dissapoined because Robert the Turk will not produce the evidence… he has no evidence.. you know he lies… and Tigran the Great’s genocide against his people was also a lie… a ridiculeous one that is…. but as one of our friends on this thread expressed.. if he can produce all the evidence, I will also be the one apologizing for the crimes commited against his people… because Armenians as a nation have moral duties and take such crimes unacceptabl…we will never stand for such wrongs without apologizing and repaying those who suffered genocide… so without much anticipation and faith, i will still wait for Robert the Turk’s evidence…
Boyajian,
There is also the suppressive environment in Turkey, fostered by article 301 and with the latest arrests that included Ragıp Zarakolu. Such an environment only allows for the most brave to speak up.
Boyadjian: The reason educated Turks don’t openly acknowledge the Armenian Genocide is because they are afraid that the men in grey suits will come and silently place them on the Midnight Express. You never know who has a closet full of grey suits. They can be anywhere, or maybe, everywhere.They don’t need to charge you with anything. Or they can charge you with everything. They move silently, annonymously. You don’t know when the Midnight Express will stop and you will have to get off. The station might have no name. Other men in grey will greet you. Ask Ragıp Zarakolu.
Yes, Gayane, you’re right, but since he put that idea on the table, I just thought someone should ask him for the facts he has to back it up. I know he has nothing to offer except propaganda, lies, fake history, etc. Sadly, since 1923, modern Turks have been cut off from their own history, which by the way, involved Armenians from the very first day they stepped onto our land a thousand years ago. The Armenian foundations of the Seljuk and Ottoman empires are essential, and cannot be overlooked, but they choose to ignore it. Instead of demeaning Armenians, who gave them all and everything they had, they should show deep appreciation for our ancestors contributions – most of which are now described as ‘classical Turkish culture’ , without even mentioning Armenians. I think this is the real fear, that the true foundation of Anatolian Turkey has strong Armenian roots that need to be exposed – inside and outside Turkey. At the very least, give credit where credit is due, instead of denigrating those who built those empires for you. Yes, white America often overlooks the contributions of Africans or native Americans, but they recently erected a statue to Martin Luther King in Washington, DC. Other than Ataturk, who gets a thank-you statue of gratitude in Turkey? The list of Turkish Armenians who deserve statues for their contributions is long and long overdue.
Not a problem Boyajian jan.. not a hard nor an impossible request to grant..:) He is definintely ignored….:)
Dear Truth, this is one of many resources on German’s genocide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCYLKHj6j0
“This is a groundbreaking BBC documentary on the origins of the Holocaust in Germany’s
colonial policy, as it was played out in Namibia. Uniquely among colonists in
Africa and Asia, they set out to commit genocide of the general population as a
specific policy, rather than as a by-product of suppressing resistance to
colonialism, as it previously had been (Aceh). A fine line, but a significant
one. In most of Africa and Asia, colonial rule was through indirect rule,
because not enough people could be found to replace the local population as a
labor force. In Namibia, the expressed purpose was to empty the land of
Africans and replace them with German settlers.
I would claim that the NAZI intention in Poland was exactly the same, and that
the seeds of the colonisation of Poland were sown in Germany’s colonial policy
in Namibia.”
I would claim that the German Empire intention in Ottoman Empire and outside of Ottoman Empire was exactly the same, and that the seeds of the genocide were sown in Germany’s colonial policy in Namibia.
Papken jan.. excellent post.. Thank you
Read what African-American poet
Nikky Finney wote about Condi…after Katrina struck…!!!
Finney tackles the subject of former Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice in a suite of poems dedicated to her peculiar place in African-American history. One striking poem is from the point of view of a box of expensive shoes that Rice reportedly was shopping for in New York shortly after Katrina struck.
Alongside high-top work bootsand Kmart house slippers
there was debutante satin
and new bride peau de soie. My Lord —
the cross-mixing that was going on!
Back and forth we wondered
what it must have been like just to float away
in the gushing arms of the ultimate separation —
Left shoe stranded forever from her Right.
Nikky Finney
Much of modern Turkish society has Armenian DNA. How sad they deny it.