Turkey, Azerbaijan Lash out on Sarkisian for Western Armenia Remark
In what could be an episode of “The Twilight Zone,” Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan demanded last week that Armenian President Serge Sarkisian apologize for leading Armenia’s youth into a “dark” reality by what he characterized as encouraging school children to occupy Eastern Turkey.
In a recent visit to Dzaghgatsor, a student asked Sarkisian whether Western Armenia, along with Mt. Ararat, would be returned to Armenia. The president was careful with his answer. “It all depends on you and your generation,” he said. “I think my generation fulfilled its duty when it protected one of the territories of our fatherland, Artsakh, from the enemy in the ‘90s. I don’t say this to reprimand anyone: each generation has its responsibility, and it must fulfill it well.”
“If you and your generation don’t spare effort or ardor…then we will have one of the best countries in the world. Believe me, often a country’s standing is not determined by the size of its territory. The country must be modern, secure, and prosperous, and these are the conditions which will permit any nation a spot among the respectable, powerful, and reputed nations of the world,” said Sarkisian. “We must all fulfill our debts, be active and hard-working, and able to create good. We can achieve these easily. I don’t doubt it, and I want you not to doubt it either. Our nation is like the Phoenix, always rising.
This arguably diplomatic answer to a question that was loaded with the pain and loss of an entire nation still managed to draw the ire of Turkey’s PM.
What Sarkisian essentially said was: That’s not something on my agenda. I dealt with the issues of my time. When it’s your turn to lead, you’ll be free to make your choices. Words from the wise: Focus on bettering what you already have.
Five days later, during Erdogan’s one-day Baku visit, Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev jumped on the opportunity to ask Erdogan about Sarkisian’s response.
“Mr. Prime Minister, how do you assess Armenian President Serge Sarkisian’s remarks that ‘We occupied Nagorno-Karabagh, and let the next generation occupy Agri-Dag [Mt. Ararat]?’ … Can we expect intensified policies of the new Turkish government towards Armenia?” asked Aliyev, according to an Azeri news source.
To that, Erdogan began a long rant, declaring that Sarkisian’s comments did not “befit” a statesman or president.
“A statesman ought not to inculcate enmity and hatred in future generations. What Serge Sarkisian did is incitement, an attempt to instill a sense of anger and hatred in young people,” he said, adding that the future would be “dark” for the Armenian youth, and that their outlook would be through “dark glasses.”
“Now you got Nagorno-Karabagh from us. We will die and you will occupy Agri [Ararat]? Is this logic? What is this concept? … What does this mean? … We denounce all of it. There can be no such public figure or such diplomacy. Sarkisian has made a serious mistake. He himself confirmed the historical mistake. He should apologize and correct this mistake,” he said.
Aliyev quickly jumped on board. “I did not expect anything better from Sarkisian,” he said. “These people put claim to ancestral, historical lands of Turkey.”
“How can you make territorial claim to such a great country like Turkey? This simply shows that there is something wrong with these people,” Aliyev added. “They do not live in a real world, but in a dream world created by them. They need to wake up, to return to the real world and at least compare themselves with Turkey. You cannot compare an elephant with an ant.”
A day earlier, the Turkish Foreign Ministry released a statement where it “harshly condemned” Sarkisian’s response, claiming it countered peace efforts in the region.
The disproportionate level of outrage coming from Turkey is suspect. Former Ambassador of Armenia to Canada Ara Papian offered one explanation in a brief analysis. “I believe it is yet another attempt at receiving assurances from Armenia…that Armenia has no demands from Turkey—that is, yet another act of humiliating Armenia in international circles through the means of denial,” he wrote.
What’s more, Erdogan voiced his criticism during his one-day visit to Baku, and therein lies the irony. His remarks were made in a country where the youth are bombarded by jingoistic rhetoric against neighboring Armenia. Recently the New York Times wrote about the free sniping schools of Azerbaijan that draws hordes of Azeris, including minors—one aspect of the country’s multi-level preparations for war.
Meanwhile, Turkey’s EU affairs minister, Egemen Bagis, reportedly said that Sarkisian’s response showed he did not understand the “peaceful hand” Turkey extended to Armenia.
“What Sarkisian has done is completely shoot himself in the foot and [show that he does] not know his place. We hope the best response to this delusion of Sarkisian is given to him by the Armenian youth,” Bagis was quoted as saying.
It is unclear what type of a response Bagis expects from “the Armenian youth.” What is clear, however, is the inherent arrogance of some Turkish diplomats, and their lack of understanding of the history and psychology of Armenians—a missing key in their “normalization” efforts.
Here we have a state, Turkey, which vehemently denies the extensively documented crime of genocide perpetrated against the Armenians—which rid its eastern territories from its native inhabitants. It is the same state that denies the rights of its largest minority—the Kurds—as recently documented by Human Rights Watch in its 2011 World Report. It also happens to be the same state that infringes on the territorial integrity of another, Northern Cyprus. And finally, the same state that has engaged in a cultural genocide, claiming centuries-old churches as its victims.
Is Turkey so traumatized by its own history that a weighed response to a schoolboy’s question shakes the throne its statesmen sit on? Or is it testing the waters? Perhaps anger is the first step to acceptance…and initially, “reparations” may be a frightening word.
Nanore Barsoumian
Latest posts by Nanore Barsoumian (see all)
- What’s Behind All the Pro-Azerbaijan Articles? - October 24, 2020
- Sharp Rise in Hate Speech Threatens Turkey’s Armenians - October 8, 2020
- When Erdogan Apologizes - May 9, 2019
Unable to recognize the Genocides of the Armenians and more…, but THEN EVEN to ignore the Sudenese Genocide of the Darfurians, now in the 21st century! One wonders… why a USA president, too, why a USA State Department needs to pursue their discriminations against innocent victims of Genocides – still, today 2011?? Too, FYI, Sudanese (allied to a Turkey) emulates continuance of Turk Genocides! For, until today, Turks have gotten “away with murders/rapes/tortures and more of innocents” – hence, why should not Sudanese also contunue their Genocide of the Darfur peoples – today, in the 21st century!! Are not the criminals in most nations brought to face justice… Yet, simply commit a Genocide and, IMAGINE, YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH GENOCIDES – JUST PICK YOUR INNOCENT VICTIMS – TOO, WHO IS NEXT TO SUFFER A GENOCIDE – AND THE PERPETRATORS WILL – STILL – GET AWAY WITH SLAUGHTERS, RAPES, TORTURES…ETC. Bullies are running the show! Bullies = winners… Victims = losers… Why?
Reason: Genocides are aided/abetted by nations whose stance ALLOWS Genocides to continue… Hence, all our so-called ”civilized” nations leaderships – YOU too, are guilty for all Genocides you allow perpetrators to violate humans – the inhumanity of humans to humans… ALLOWING Genocides to continue… ongoing/unending. But, why?
“The Ant and the Elephant”
The writer attempts to use the above metaphor to prove or convey a message. There is no place the metaphor is used except the title. The obviously is much larger than ant, however, ants probably are more civilized than ants. For example, the elephants are used in war by humans against humans, however, no one has used ants to win a war. Ants are more organizers than ants. In fact, there is comparison between ants and elephants. One can declare that ants are more useful to the world than elephants. In realty, Armenians have been more beneficial to human race than Turks.
See definition of the word “Turk,” in Webster English Dictionary. It defines Turk as a cruel and brutal and domineering person.
re: [ “Now you got Nagorno-Karabagh from us. We will die and you will occupy Agri [Ararat]? Is this logic? What is this concept? … What does this mean? … We denounce all of it. There can be no such public figure or such diplomacy. Sarkisian has made a serious mistake. He himself confirmed the historical mistake. He should apologize and correct this mistake,” he said.]
(NOTE: I am assuming the translation that was quoted is correct, and that Effendi Erdogan did say “Now you got Nagorno-Karabagh from us”) (emphasis mine)
Let’s examine that expression: “….you got Nagorno-Karabagh from us”, the implication being that Artsakh belongs to the Nomadic Turkish tribes, who INVADED from Altai Mountains region, ethnically cleansed the native Armenians, and other local inhabitants, and now claim it as their own.
And who exactly is “us”, Mr. Erdogan ? And what is “Agri” ? is that another name for Mount Altai, you know, where your Nomadic Hordes originated ?
(there you go again, Avery, with your rants, using non-PC words like ‘Nomads’)
Let that expression “…got… from us.” sink in for a while. This expression comes not from some hate-filled sports fans booing Armenian athletes, but from the ELECTED leader of a Nation that not only has exterminated 2 million Armenians, not only heavily supported the attempted extermination of Artsakh’s Armenians by “us”, not only has the capacity to militarily exterminate Armenia, but has threatened to do so on several occasions. Even going as far as massing a whole invasion Army on RoA’s border in 1993. And this man was elected by close to 50% of Turkish electorate.
Am I mistaken or are the Turks and Azeris interlopers who have tried with much success to usurp the indigenous people – including Armenians – and claim everything as their own?
They were tribes with no culture and they came and took ours and claim it as their own.
Turkey and Azerbaijan: fake nations.
Avery jan… True that… you are just brilliant…:)
The statement “……you got.. from us….””” …you, meaning us the Armenians..of course…and you know what Erdodog??, them YOU people, are the people who actually WERE and ARE the true landlords of Artsagh….
……took it from us, us meaning Turks.. but you know Erdodog?? them US are the people who had no culture and no real lands before they came upon the historic and beautiful lands of Armenians.. so get over it.. you guys lost.. so don’t be a sore loser ..however, is this something we expected to hear from Erdoding?? ABSOLUTELY!!!.. WIthout a doubt… and of coures when you put two losers together, Turkey and Azerbajian.. all they can do is talk shh*(*(%*#$#(*$#(*#$ about Armenia.. naturally.. because they have nothing better to talk about… nothing better to do.. anything to diverge the eyes of the world away from the two WORST human rights violaters on the planet… But guess what Erdodog and Alipoop?????… all you will get from Armenia is a wave from Mt. Ararat… once we get that back as well…
Gayane
The problem with you Armenians is you think you are some advanced, superior people and you always want to despise Turks. For example somebody here call us a fake nation. He doesn’t have any idea how cultures evolved. So why should I feel sympathy for these kind of people? If you are so superior, you must be happy about it. You have to decide, are you victims or are you superior people? You can’t be both. For example there are other peoples that were victims of genocide like Jews or Native Americans but they don’t really have this arrogance.
Metin:
I visit and post @TodaysZaman and @Hurriyet often.
Posts there are full of references to ‘fake’, ‘artificial’ Armenia.
Posts there are full of exhortation to invade Armenia and Artsakh.
Posts there by rabidly nationalist Turks are dripping with hatred against Armenians.
Let’s discuss the ‘despise Turks’ then.
Turkish society is saturated with hatred for Armenians.
Examples:
[1] Gul sues and wins for being ‘insulted’ by someone. What was the insult ? someone said Gul’s mother was Armenian. Yeah, in Turkey having an Armenian mother apparently is equivalent to having a simian mother.
[2] Professor at Dicle University has anti-Armenian multiple-choice test questions at midterm exams.
[3] DR. TUNCER SÜMER KİMDİR, campaign slogan “Turkey for Turks”.
[4] Hrant Dink is murdered for being Armenian. Turk Police Officers photographed proudly with the suspect at the Police Station.
Murderer given only 23 years for premeditated, “lying in wait” murder – shooting an unarmed man in the back of the head on racial hatred grounds. (in the US he’d get the death penalty).
[5] Turk Nationalist Turkish Army killer of ethnic Armenian Turkish soldier released.
[6] Young Armenian athletes booed by Turk fans inTrabzon(Note: Turk players and Turk soccer fans received with respect in Yerevan)
There is a lot more. But this should be enough to give you a subtle hint as to who has the corner on hate.
My bet is on Turks being the champions of hate: what do you think ?
Armenians despise the Turkish state—not Turks—for a reason. Your state has exterminated and forcibly deported my people: 2 million unarmed, disorganized people living in rural areas far from war zones in 1915. You want us to feel sympathy for the Ottoman sheeple? Before asking yourself why you should feel sympathy for Armenians, have you ever enquired as to why Armenians would have no sympathy for you? Have you ever asked yourself if history knows such a thing as genocide of Turks committed by Armenians? Or maybe the opposite?
Re: fake nation and knowledge of how cultures evolve. A nation that invaded developed civilizations in Asia Minor from Mongolian steppes and the mountains of Altay, stole their cultural monuments, cuisine, language, social traditions, etc. and declared itself ‘Turk’ cannot be real. It is fake because the area Turkey occupies is not ingeniously Turkish: your origin is in Central Asia. It is fake because almost all cultural edifices of the Byzantine Greeks, Assyrians, and Armenians that miraculously survived detonation and desecration are either presented as ‘Seljuk’ or are transformed into mosques or museums or sheepcotes or a pile of stones.
Re: victims vs. superior people ‘dichotomy’. Armenians have become victims in the hands of barbarous Ottoman Turks because they were superior to them in historically more ancient origin and cultural achievements, business and trade, arts and sciences, architecture and military art. Being victims of a barbarian Turkish crime and being one of the most ancient civilizations on Earth is not a ‘dichotomy’: they both are parts of our tragic and proud history.
Other victims of genocide had their genocide acknowledged by the perpetrators and reparations paid (Jews) or had their mistreatment acknowledged and civil rights and territories reinstated (American Indians). Armenians wait for 96 years for the murderer-state of Turkey to repent and admit the guilt. This is not arrogance; this is a righteous indignation for a crime which the perpetrator cowardly denies it had committed.
“So why should I feel sympathy for these kind of people?”
Turk Metin, no one has asked you or any Turk to feel sympathy for Armenians. Some Armenians believe Turks are civilized people and therefore can accept responsibility of their Genocide against
Armenians. If Turks apologizes, then these Armenians would forgive them as if nothing has happened. However, the real Armenians do not need an empty apology from Turks. What they need is justice. How Turks can redress Armenians from the greatest crime against
Armenians? This is Turk’s problem not Armenians. Of course Turks are not a nation. First of all they do not have their own alphabet. Therefore, their spoken language is in fact a dialect.
Second of all, Turkey does not have legally defined borders including with Armenia. One of the four required conditions to be recognized a nation is to have very well legally defined boarders. Turkey does not have. Finally, a so called nation once has undertaken genocide against other nations loses the privilege of to be called by others such.
There are other valid reasons. The reason your leaders have long tongs because they
are member of NATO.
The Azery clique in power are ethnic Tatars. The Tatars were always, since ancient times, the outcasts of the Mongol clans. They are scaterred througout eastern Europe, southern Russia and Caucassus. Everywhere they go, they usurp the local Identity. They are kind of ashamed of their origins so they pretend to be someone else. Iranians yesterday, Turks today, Azery Tomorrow, on and on. In Azerbaidjian the Tatars have taken so many of our women and converted so many more, that today, genetically closer to us than anyone else. Culturally, they seem to just have arrived from Siberia. They are so sure that they are Turkish, because they speak Turkish and are Muslims. What to do. I think that the Web will bring the truth to the Azery population. I hope so.
Metin-jan – this is very easy – Armenians are the followers of Jesus Christ. He was a victim right? Crucified, tortured and betrayed by his friends and yet, he is the greatest known person in the world!
We are just worthless followers of HIM, but… compare to nomadic Turkic invaders who came from the Altai mountains of Siberia where their ancestor married to a she-wolf at the Ergenekon gorge produced the Turkic nation…
One day Turkey will get carved up between Greece, Armenia and Kurdistan.
Exactly, Sevag. This is what Turks feared could happen after the Sèvres Treaty, that’s why they started their so-called ‘war of independence’ to get as much other people’s lands as possible for themselves. History will repeat itself. We’ll wait…
anyone doubting what Erdogan really meant when he said “Now you got Nagorno-Karabagh from us.”, or how Turks view the world, particularly their neighbors property – check out TodaysZaman [“Turkey warns Greek Cyprus against hydrocarbon drill” Aug 5, 2011].
Not only Turks invade and occupy 40% the sovereign state of Cyprus, but now they are telling them what Cypriots can or cannot do in their own territorial waters.
Can anyone doubt what would have happened to Artsakh if Azeri-Turks had won ?
Any doubt what will happen if the liberated lands are given (not, quote, ‘returned’) to Azeri-Tatar rule ?
My dear friend…all of you did an EXCELLENT JOB with your posts.. I did not have a chance to post last night when I read this so called Metin’s comments..so thank you for doing the deed … I was soo relieved to read all of them..
I swear, it is seems like these TUrks communicate with their Stone Age ways with each other.. glowing torches to let the other to chime in and continue the stupidity and nonsense comments …they are really good at it.. what is the deal??? it is like we are disciplining small children about the same thing over and over again… wow… talk about slow and ignorant….but hopefully repetition will help them to reverse all the gargabe they have been fed by their govt….
Wow Avery.. are you serious??? Do you have the link to that article my friend??
To be honest with you .. I am not surprised..
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-252815-turkey-warns-greek-cyprus-against-hydrocarbon-drill.html
while you are there – if you have time – do a search on Nagorno, Armenia, Azerbaijan and similar. then read the comments under the articles. Some Turks that post or posted here @AW also post there (e.g. Necati Genis). see what you think.
Ohhhh the plot thikens..:) thank you Avery jan.. I will and will let you know…
Gayane
For Metin and alikes,
re. You have to decide, are you victims or are you superior people? You can’t be both
I don’t think we should ever say that we are superior, you are right Metin.
But maybe we have been. Let the historians decide that. What does Turkish statistics say?
As for being victims, here is what I have to say: There was no ARmenian Genocide. It is all a lie. ARmenians are pretending to look like victims in front of the whole world to be able to push forward the agenda of getting back mount ARarat and the surounding regions. It is so obvious. Karabakh is liberated now it is time for Western ARmenia. With the momentum on our side, this is just a matter of years.
Now you tell me if we are victims or SUPERIORS. Obviously we are at least one of them.
And what about you? Would you like to be an ant or elephant?
Reply in general. Present Turkish people didn’t kill anybody and they are innocent as much as you present Armenians. In the past years I read about history of Armenians and I really believed that a genocide occurred, I still believe it. I tried to talk with Armenians in some forums and other websites. But what I saw was majority of Armenians are very arrogant and racist. I am sorry, this is the truth. I didn’t feel like I should apologize to these people. Your general attitude really discourages Turks to do something.
What we should argue is:
– Which individuals and groups were responsible. We shouldn’t generalize a whole people.
– Why the Western countries and Soviets allowed it and why they didn’t do anything like they did after the Holocaust. Why did they sign those peace agreements? Why they didn’t care for so long?
Avery jan.. I checked out the todays zaman… read some articles, and indeed noticed the same people … i also contributed to few of the articles.. could not help it.. can’t let these ignorant denialists continue….
You know what? it would be helpful if we all stop by and comment on these TUrkish sites…we cna’t have them have their cake and eat it too.. we can be party crashers.. more like LIE and DISTORTION CRASHERS.. because we all know Turkish newspaper and TUrkish govt does everything to promote and spread lies….
Gayane
well done Gayane: proud of you.
Indeed, we all should visit regularly and counter their disinformation in their own back yard. If nothing else, it will irritate the heck out of them. We need to be in-their-face everywhere, keep reminding them that their ancestors failed in their attempt to wipes us out.
name got abbreviated above: A is Avery
Again why oh why oh WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY is it so hard to get through a denalists head???
Metin.. IF you read about the history and Armenians and you believed there was a Genocide.. THEN you would be intelligent enough to know all the answers to your questions to threw at us in your last post..
However, because you are frustrating me with your nonsense, I will just be short.. .. but I am hoping one of my friends will enlighten you YET AGAIN (you know.. you being well read about the ARmenians and our history) with a very calm, and well thought out replies….
Oh by the way.. YOU my friend are not trying to talk to US… what you are doing is provoking us with your ignorant comments.. which are obviously anti-ARmenian Genocide; hence anti-ARmenian.. so before you start typing your comments, think about what you are typing before you preach us “oh Armenians are this and that and i can’t talk to them”.. such a laughable matter.. wow.. lol
ohhh what a sad times we live in.. with people like Metin who has NO CLUE as to what Armenians despise, who they despise and why….and the sad fact is these topics have been discussed and shared so many times that even 1 year old baby would have been an expert on them.. however, as from what Metin is saying, I conclude that whatever is written here and discussion goesin from one year and goes out the other.. no information is being read and understandood and we get warnings from these type of people.. laughable to say the least……
Metin, Many of my compatriots already answered you very intelligently and gave you many good and justified reasons why we Armenians feel in regards to the injustice from your Turkish gov’t and the Azeris’ inexcusable comments.
“What we should argue is:
-Which individuals and groups were responsible. We shouldn’t generalize a whole people.”
Remember who the characters of this article are? It is about the two heads of states: Turkey’s president Erdogan and Azeri/Tatar’s prersident Aliyev. We find their ridiculous statements of getting all worked up about what president Sarkisian said simply crazy and unreal. Sarkisian didn’t say anything wrong. As a matter of fact he gave a very brilliant answer of reality; that is, our generation did what we had to do, and your generation will do what they feel is right to do for the sake and the betterment of their country. He even said that the newer generation must concentrate on making their country a great place to live among nations. No one with the right mind will see anything to be panicked about Sarkisian’s very diplomatic answers. (Only the guilty party like Erdogan and Aliyev would). They know that their country is a made up country, they know that their government ruthlessly and viciously annihilated the indigenous peace loving Armenians and they are still denying it for 96 long years, because they don’t want to accept their responsibility. My compatriats and I don’t have anything against the Turkish population, but towards the Turkish Republic that in 96 years are still in denial. Are you aware that denial is the last stage of the Genocide? The Turkish government is stuck at the last stage of the Genocide, thus the Armenian Genocide by the hands of the Turkish government is still ongoing, because your Turkish government of today does everything in their power towards the US, and the European governments to have them deny it. Meanwhile Armenians peacefully, patiently but grudgingly are still waiting for the Turkish goverment to come to their senses and accept the Armenian Genocide committed by their Ittihadist vicious and bloodthirsty govenrment.
“Why the Western countries and Soviets allowed it and why they didn’t do anything like they did after the Holaucost. Why did they sign those peace agreementsA? Why they didn’t care for so long?”
Don’t you know that the CUP Ittihadist government annihilated Armenians during WWI? They purposely did that so that the allies “England, France, USA and Russia” wouldn’t be able to intervene because of the WWI. And after that, there was no Armenian adult man alive to demand our rights. Most of the adult men were killed, most of the survivors were orphaned children and some women.
You are unintelligently comparing a nation with only orphaned children after the Armenian Genocide with the entire Jewish population of the world after the Haulocaust. The Jewry had much roots in the U.S.A. and other parts of the world as well. They had a great deal of authority, money, voice and people around the world; and they had authority within the US government as well as very rich Jewish American businessmen who backed them up. The Germans lost in WWII and the Jews had the allies on their side to demand from Germany their apologies as well as their billions of $$$$$ of blood money. You cannot compare them with us Armenians; the remnants of orphaned children who’s riches, monies and lands were stolen from them as well as their fathers and mothers that were already killed by the Turks; thus a population of crippled children were left scattered all around the world, thanks to the Armenian Genocide committed by the Turkish govenrment of 1915-1923. Who was going to fight for us? Like your Talaat Pasha said it: “It will take 50 years for the Armenians to be able to find themselves, be able to raise their heads to demand justice for the annihilation of their entire people”. Indeed the demon was right, wasn’t he?
So Metin, before attacking us, why don’t you think through what you are saying and what the true facts are? There is absolutely no justification or sanity for the Turkish presidents’ comments. There remains for them only to recognize the Armenian Genocide and then for blood money of our 2 million martyrs along with all the billions and the properties that your Turkish govenrment stole it from us to have them pay it in full in the form of our long lost anscestral homeland.
Metin,the answer to your first question is so simple:
The responsible party is the present day Turkey as the legal inheritor of the Ottomans & Young Turks similar to the present day Germany as the legal inheritor of the Nazi Germany & as you know very well Germany so many times apologised for the Holocaust & paid billions in reparations to the State of Israel which is the legal state of the massacred Jews.
As for your 2nd question what peace treaties are you talking about?Do you mean International treaties?
It is with amusement sometimes I observe the racist and hateful commentary filling these pages, long arguments about blood lines, genes, ethnicities, mongols and aryan, who is more deserving of better things, while at the same leveling charges of racism and brutality at others.
The fake world, with its fake myths and figures and realities many Armenian have created for themselves, driven by unstoppable identity needs, from where they accuse Turkey being a fake nation, with a fake history doomed to be gobbled up by a Greater Armenia just makes such an interesting and deliciously ironic picture. There are probably numerous doctoral thesis hidden in this for young anthropologists.
This all gives to so many of us modern Turks a good idea of what our grandfathers had to deal with.
It also explains why Turks, among a few others were able to form great empires in history, left their permenant marks, not all good obviously, in our collective civilization, and where so many Armenians distinguished themselves in so many areas, and the reverse did not happen. This was not just fate and has a lot to do with the sentiments I see here.
A walk around big cities of Turkey today, one hears dozens of languages, so many from so many different places mixing, doing business, going to schools, even settling and making children, etc., which the fastest growing two airports in Europe can not even service does not give one the idea that this is a make believe, all about to go up in smoke.
Yes, there are ants and there are elephants. Frankly, all creatures of God and I love them all.
read your comments @ the Turk site, gayane.
Very, very proud of you քույրիկուհի.
Double “well-done”.
Murat:
All of your fake assertions have been answered in-detail multiple times on other threads. Yet you and your compatriots keep re-posting the same stuff. Maybe I or one of my Armenian friends will answer in detail again in this thread.
In the meantime, I would like you to please juxtapose the following sentence from you post:
[ ‘with amusement sometimes I observe the racist and hateful commentary filling these pages, long arguments about blood lines, genes, ethnicities, mongols and aryan,’ ]
With this story: [“Turkish racism: an unpleasant story” Hurriyet July 13, 2010]
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkish-racism-an-unpleasant-story-2010-07-13
Please elaborate on why in today’s Turkey this man’s portrait hangs in every Turkish Government office.
(For reference, the equivalent would be if Hitler’s portrait was hanging in even one German Government office today.)
All of us hateful Armenians will wait for your response with bated breath.
……some more study material for you Murat.
this just in:
[“A quest for the historical Atatürk” Hurriyet Aug5, 2011]
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=a-quest-for-the-historical-ataturk-2011-08-05
here is an interesting paragraph from the article, which we gladly duplicate below for the enjoyment of our guests:
[Even racism entered the scene. An official history textbook prepared under Atatürk’s supervision promoted “abandoning superstitions” based on “Jewish myths,” and focusing rather on “the deep racial roots” of the Turks. Hence Atatürk promoted extravagant theories that defined the Turks as the seed of all ancient civilizations and the best of the “brachycephalic Alpine race” (the term referred to a particular skull type). No wonder, with Atatürk’s orders, many “racial” studies were carried out, in which Turkish skulls, of the living or the dead, were measured. The Kemalist researchers were particularly delighted, when, in 1935, they opened up the tomb of Sinan, the great Ottoman architect of Armenian or Greek origin, to measure his skull and to discover that he “was not only culturally, but racially Turkish.”] (emphasis mine)
Avery:
I believe, your first link was brought to Murat’s attention in the past, either by you or by someone else. Did he learn anything from it? Either he did not and never will or he did but he deliberately keeps repeating the same tired ideas because he thinks that’s what a patriotic Turk should do. He is going to blow his horn no matter how much you enlighten him.
you are indeed right Gina: the first link was brought to my attention by a diligent and observant Armenian poster by the pen-name of ‘Alex’ (there may be more than one ‘Alex’), which I subsequently brought to the attention of Turks and their agents who keep bloviating about, quote, ‘hateful, racist Armenians’.
What I and others, including yourself, are doing is not attempting to enlighten Denialist Turks, Azeri-Tatars, and their agents (paid or volunteer). I have been around long enough to know what their purpose is, and that it is hopeless to try change the minds of, or try to enlighten Nationalist Turks. The reason we counter-post is to blunt their Anti-Armenian propaganda and dissemination of disinformation. The audience is the neutral 3rd parties: non-Turks and non-Armenians.
Turks know what they are doing , so do we.
They play the game, so will we.
Myself, you, and others obviously have better things to do with our lives and time. However, as long as Turks and ‘Azeris’ keep spreading Anti-Armenian hateoganda, we have no choice: we MUST counter. It is our duty and obligation to our brothers and sisters in Artskah and Armenia.
Having lost on the battlefield, Azeri invaders are now trying to paint the victims of their failed aggression as the ‘agressors’ and the bad guys (!).
They are trying, with the help of Turks, to re-occupy Artsakh on the cheap by proxy.
They have had some success in their revisionist campaign.
We can’t rest. We must counter them everywhere and every time.
Պայքար, Պայքար Մինչեվ Վերջ
“Պայքար, Պայքար Մինչեվ Վերջ:”
Our struggle against Turks is not forever. It is beyond forever! We can win this war against Turks, as wo won chess games against the world. All we need an Armenian leader who has not been communist before!
Avery:
I agree with you 100%. They spread their dirty propaganda and try to paint a very unpleasant picture of Armenians at every opportunity. I have encountered them everywhere, from the WSJ to a travel forum. A question was asked about how safe it was to travel to Turkey and a self-proclaimed political analyst from Turkey grabbed the opportunity to badmouth us and present the situation around Artsakh upside down. Of course, I could not resist putting him in his place.
I talked about enlightening Murat and his buddies in case you were still hoping to change their minds with your excellent explanations. I should’ve known, of course, that you are not that naive.
(Been away recently, but really enjoying catching up on recent discussions.)
Very funny , Murat: Frankly, all creatures of God and I love them all.
Your nose must be growing because Armenians are God’s creatures and you clearly show little love for us. You lack the hallmark feature of love of others which includes concern for the well-being of the other and the urge to repair the relationship when damage is done. Can there be greater damage to a nation than genocide and its denial?
But it’s okay, Murat; you have a job to do. We will carry-on without your affection.
Metin, you are quite conflicted about Armenian’s, aren’t you? On one hand, you acknowledge the genocide, but you just can’t bring your self to offer a humane apology for what your nation did and continues to do to my nation. To me you display an often encountered Turkish attitude of disdain and lack of empathy toward Armenians and their quest for justice. I do understand how difficult it might be for you to embrace this awful truth, but I have little empathy for your lack of sensitivity. Your attitude is like the child who borrows another’s favorite toy and breaks it, and gets angry when the other child request payment or replacement for the broken toy, exclaiming “Why don’t you just play with another toy and be satisfied with what you have left.”
And Mr. Erdogan, demands an apology from Sarkisian for his simple suggestion to a school child that the younger generation has goals to accomplish on the path toward justice between Armenia and Turkey….
….then he suggests that Armenians took Artsakh from “us” (love this romantic notion of ‘us-ness’ of all Turks. Adorable!). Apparently ethnic pride is reserved for Turks and seen as untenable when displayed by Armenians. Mr. Ergogan owes ‘us’ an apology for his chauvinism.
Mersi Avery jan…. I am planning to do just that every change I get..
As you said, it is not that we are here to enlighten these denialists such as Murat or Metin or alike.. we are here to counter attack their nonsense… and will do that forever until we shot them up or we get justice….and it will happen.. they sense it and that is why they are soo much more aggressive in the past few years to do everything not to allow the truth to come out.. but they know.. the elephant will be coming stumping on the pavement and they like ants will be destroyed….
Gayane
Murat….
You said
walk around big cities of Turkey today, one hears dozens of languages, so many from so many different places mixing, doing business, going to schools, even settling and making children, etc., which the fastest growing two airports in Europe can not even service does not give one the idea that this is a make believe, all about to go up in smoke
so you are smoking something right? settling and making children? I DOUBT 100% if anyone wants to go there and settle where Erdodog controll every aspect of everyone’s lives… with limited freedom how can one do business freely?????? you are all smoking something very Erdogonish that is for sure..lol
Gayane
Avery jan… i have scanned few articles tonight again and I can’t believe the things these Turkish denialists write on their sites.. WOW.. and of course I can’t help myself ..so i everytime I read an article, I put my comment..:) i am sure you have noticed.. im anuna on those pages is hayuhiG….
I have told myself that my goal going forward is to rebuttal at least ONE comment from the Turkish denialists on their own pages…
Thank you for sharing those links with me…
Sranits heto arten turqer@ indzanits chen prtsni..:)
Gayane
of course I knew who it was writing under that name right away
read the Armenian word I used for you in my post above. ‘little sister’ is already feminine by itself, so…
since , AW is not easy enough to write , i made some mistake. Re-post:
TO: MURAT , ANADOLU, ROBERT and other Turkish posters commenting here AW,
I would suggest you all not to spend your valuable time to show some racist , deaf and blind Armenians the historical truths. They can also be very rude if they do not like something you say. Armenians are NOT hospitable as we are.
Fascist , racist : 1.Sylvia 2. Avery
In fact, They already know the historical truths but still go on black propaganda against Turkey in order to effect international community.
We actually understood what they are , what they want from their president’s mouth short ago.
They recently started to comment on some Turkish news papers too with their same mouthes.
PLEASE do not give them chance to spread their baseless lies.
Necati Genis: you are baaaaaack.
A reminder below, if you don’t mind. A refresher for you, from the Bloomberg Photojournalist thread @AW:
(start paste)————-
Necati Genis July 1, 2011 |
Avery,
Without Turks comment here , AW would be sooooo boring …
You want to try? OK!
I AM CALLING FOR TURKS NOT TO COMMENT HERE FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEKS…
Avery July 1, 2011 |
Necati: why only 2 weeks ? how about 2 years ? Why don’t you, Necati Genis, promise never to come back to AW ?
Necati Genis July 2, 2011 |
Avery, OK…Until AW apoligizes …
Avery July 2, 2011 |
OK then, Necati Genis: so long.
(end paste)———————
I doubt very much that AW apologized to you or anybody else.
Sooooo……why are you back ? It hasn’t been 2 months, or 2 years, much less NEVER that you promised.
Any comment Necati ?
And I don’t know about MURAT, ANADOLU, etc but we can’t get rid of ROBERT no matter how hard we try. Every time he shows his mug here, we shame him – yet the allegedly proud Turk apparently has no shame.
And on your ranking above: I am deeply hurt. Only #2 for me ? what have I done to deserve it. There is no doubt in my mind that I have to be #1.
Let me ask my Armenian friends:” Don’t I deserve to be #1 ? I have been working so hard….recently. Doing all that research and such…why can’t I be #1?”
And yeah, I have been visiting @TodaysZaman and @Hurriyet. I apologize for not doing so earlier, like some of our Armenian friends have been doing for months. But, better late than never.
And finally: the #1 on your list is not Sylvia. It’s another one of our literary Woman Warriors that has been visiting you guys, rattling the cage. And there will be more and more of us visiting, to counter your Anti-Armenian disinformation and propaganda in your own back yard.
See you soon.
@Necati, Who is the Fascist, racist Sylvia you are referring to? I am interested.
Hye-menk chee badasghan enenk ohnkhelk tookeroon – mehr jamanag avelee arshak-avor eh.
Undre-tzek MEG ‘code’ parmeh for menk ess khos-kov menk meesht ga badasghanenk… Ankelehren liar…
Jeest es meg pareh – menk avelee garevor ghelatzee khnteer-nehr oonenk.
Turks about themselves. An article in Hurriyet Daily: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=the-turkish-hate-affair-with-the-color-8216gray8217-2011-08-04
The Armenian Genocide deniers are a dying breed & they only count a handful whose names already everybody knows.They are most welcomed to argue with us but should realise by now that it is fruitless to convince us.They better concentrate their efforts on the honourable Turkish intellectuals who have already apologised for the Genocide committed by their ancestors.No need to say that many of these honourable gentlemen are threatened to death (usual & customary) including the noble prize winner Mr. Orhan Pamuk who for saftety reasons has fled his homeland.In the Turkish media & almost on a daily basis we read about the Armenian Genocide committed by the Turks.So many books about The Armenian Genocide are published & being published in Turkish by Turk authors & Turkish publishing houses.Many things are changing in Turkey & these deniers do not want to change & want to remain blind.Times are changing…
Avery jan, Ես ալ ուրախացայ որ թերեւս Նէքաթի թուրքը «Սիլվիա» անունը ինձ համար կանուանէ թէ շատ սոֆու մի զորավոր կծու Հայուհի մըն եմ: Մեխք ուրախութիւնս փորս մնաց: Գիտես որ կը խնդամ կոր բաւական մը, բայց կատակը մի կողմ Կարինէն, Պոյաճեանը, Քաթին, Մանուշակը, Բերուզը եւ առաւել անցիք բոլորս ալ նոյնն ենք, ո’չ մի տարբերութիւն չեմ տեսներ մեր հայապահպանման գարագթէրի գծերուն մէջ:
Sireli Gina, Vereve ku badgareli Hayuheei anunet mortsa iprev zoravor kach Hayuhi, payts bedk er ayjem kereyi ku antsnavorutyanet patsartsag garevorutyune mer Hayuheei sharkerun mech sireli kuyr Gina jan.
Lav Manooshag, Ահա քեզի մի քանի անուններ, Ստախօս, կամ թշնամի եւ կամ խեղաթիւրող:
Oh look my friends.. look who is back???? Necati… well well well.. i guess without US you guys are bored to tear.. are not you? and what tickles me to death is your call to your lonely and bored friends who have nothing better or intelligent to say to back down… WHY?? why are you denying them from continueous education of the rightful history.. why are you stopping them from being enlightened as to what truly happened WITH STRAIGHT AND ACCURATE FACTS that are undeniable.. because you know for a FACT no matter how much fabrications, how many times you convince yourself otherwise that what we say is not right, EVERYTHING we share with you and your comrads are RIGHT.. YOU CAN HIDE BUT YOU CAN”T RUN from the truth Necati.. Make that a life long lesson.. so instead of calling ALL YOUR lousy troops to back down, let them face us.. we appreciate a good discussion and debate and will continue to do so until the end.. at least they are open to it.. the only problem with those denalist TUrks are they dont’ want to digest and take in the information provided to them.. but it is ok.. one day..
and oh.. that Racist and Facist you are talking about is not Sylvia… you got the wrong person.. and for your information NON of us here or those of us who started to post on your messed up Turkish sites full of hate, and denial toward Armenians (i know, i visit and see) are racist or facists.. and you know why you call us that? because only GUILTY and SHAMEFUL will come up with such names for those people who have been, are and will be righteous and tell the truth about what TUrkey is all about and the history behind it… and you bet your frazzled self, we will continue to post on Turkish sites.. sorry I have not done that before.. We can’t let you denialists continue with your garbage ….
I hope you reconsider joining us again because you know you love to read and learn from people who actually what WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED and WHY…..but then again, i don’t know why you are afraid us, afraid of the truth.. we are very nice, very sweet, very hospitable.. very patient.. you should know that by now…
Gayane
Avery jan.. I LOVE YOUR WAYS.. you have the best notes.. best tracking system.. no one can get away with whatever they said.. including Necati…lol THANK YOU..
Great post.. loved it.. and thank you for your positive thoughts… I knew you would know it was me no doubt..:) and now that we started to post, the denialists are noticiing.. alot ofus should start posting on their sites.. they have been having such grand time without us being there that now we injected the truth in their playground, they got all frazzled and start running around not knowing what happened… how sad huh? instead of embracing our contribution and siding with the truth, they are running the opposite direction… and then on top of that portraying us what they are.. truly sad…
Gayane
Seevart:
Այո, բոլորս ալ նոյնն ենք, եւ բոլորս ալ մեկ սեր ունինք – անալ Հայաստան:
Avery jan, Կատարելապէս համաձայն եմ. բայց ես Կայանէ քրոջս անունը չեմ գրեր եւ կը յուսամ որ ինձ ներէ ան, ամենէն ագթիւը մեջերնիս Կայանէն է, իրապէս զորավոր Հայուհին:
” I hope you reconsider joining us again because you know you love to read and learn from people who actually what WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED and WHY…..but then again, i don’t know why you are afraid us, afraid of the truth.. we are very nice, very sweet, very hospitable.. very patient.. you should know that by now…”
Ms. Gayane,
I must admit that i really love to read your comments because i can feel the humanity, politeness, friendship, love behind your words.
yes. You are one of those in here who are nice and sweet..
AVERY: Do not start same song please saying why i am back. I am back here for not to answer to your ” scientific” lies… I count keep silence against such a nice girl ,Gayane.
editor,
you are being soooooo funny by cutting my sentence in half and deleting one …
Sirely Seervart,
Khndir chega. Bardadir che anunes hishatakel. Yes gitem, bolors miasin enk. Sirume em bolorid ev tsankanum hamberutyun mer ardar baikarum.
FYI… Armenians are the people of Chist Necati… and they are the most personable and hospitable and nice people you will EVER meet……..IF you stop being a denialist Turk … maybe you might see our side that you REFUSE to see because you are blinded by so much hate and paralized with so much lies from your govt..and all the frustration that you are feeling right now and that is why you can’t do much but to retrieve is because of your ignorant, arrogant and denialist words/govt….
Oh oh oh oh.. wait. wait. now I am the reason you are back Necati??? WOW..REALLY??????? such an honor.. you should not have Necati.. you are making me blush…
Avery jan… please read what Necati is saying.. can you believe his reason of coming back on our pages is because of little ol’ me… what did i do to deserve such honor? lol he is telling you not to let the entire readering community know of what he said in the past and to show WHO HE TRULY REALLY IS by not singing the same song.. LOL aweeeeeeeeeee.. i think Necati is jealous Avery jan….lol oh my…
Vay Seervart jan.. THANK YOU… yes shat hpart em zgum indz.. such n honor to be included in the elite like yourself and everyone on these pages minus the denialists… Mersi quyrik jan.. Astvats pahi pahpani mez boloris vor menq karoxananq mer yerkira het berenq u payqarenq minchev verch…
WOuld like to correct the word Christ… forgive the misspelling…. was typing too fast…
“Armenians are the people of Christ Necati”
no problem… all Hayturk , aren’t we ?
i came back because you said so..at your service…
I did read it gayane. Truth is, he’s been dying to come back to ArmenianWeekly, and finally found something you said in your post he could use to sneak back in, without having to apologize and take back his words. Shows you who we are dealing with.
I am not surprised: ArmenianWeekly has one of the most sophisticated commenting/debating software I have seen. TodaysZaman and Hurriyet are primitive in comparison.
And you have seen the comments there: compare the intellectual level and sophistication of posters here and there.
“such an honor to be included in the elite like yourself and everyone on these pages minus the denialists”
Now you hurt my heart too much .. :(
Sure…keep dreaming Necati.
No sir or maa’m, you came back because you denialist can’t keep your word.. you lie.. and by returning to these pages simply shows how your type of denialists flat out lie.. if you lie about such a minor thing as this, why should anyone believe anything you say about anything… especially when it comes to Armenian Genocide and history.. that proves our point… thank you for proving to the world what liars you denialists are…End of story..
Gayane
i am crying now… you played with my pure feelings…
Gayane, you are the editor, aren’t you ? :)
Sure…keep dreaming Necati.
No sir or maa’m, you came….
and.. ok.. i will never give up …..I will always keep my dreams as you say even not easy to come true..
Necati- FIRST.. my post about elite was between ME and another of my sisters.. it was not directed to you was it? why do you have to stick your nose into something you are invited into.. oh ohoh… but tha is in your nature.. cause you CAN”T STAY OUT….
i can be the editor but i would not take the job away from our prestigious editors of this site because they are doing an excellent job…..
the bottom line is.. you were called out and you can’t get over it.. so you come up with nonsense to cover up your insecurity…..if you feel you are fighting for something YOU youself believe and know for a fact vs your conyving and manipulative govt, then don’t give up.. but guess what??? i am not going anywhere..so keep dreaming and if your dream continue to drop you off on our pages, we will do our part and point out everything that you stand for.. so sweet dreams Necati…:)
Gayane
Necati– I want to correct a sentence before you JUMP in with your full face forward because we are well aware how your type likes to take advantage of every little word they can get their hands on..that stems from not having anything intelligent or remotely accurate to say about what we are discussing…so anyway… … I meant to say “”” Why do you have to stick your nose into something you are NOT invited into”….. so stick to the dialogue that is directed to you.. thank you
Dear Sweety,
I am not a gov. people but someone on the street . i of course think only with my brain ,oh, sometimes with my heart…
No words from your mouth will damage me because i know your good heart never means bad ..
And i am sure you can succes in anything not only being and editor.
Gayane kuyres, Menk elite chenk Gayane jan, menk polores al miyayn Hay enk Hayu arunov yev Hayu tasdiaragutyamp. Hayabahbanumn al mer neshanapanne sirelis!
how about using Armenian fonts instead of english letters when you want to say something in your moother language ? Google does understand what you say that way… :)
The name is Gayane… an Armenian name… and not sweety…
and your mockery is not appreciated but at the same time ignored…
You don’t have to be a govt person Necati.. an ordinary Turk can be brainwashed by their own govt.. they are good at it… Avery shared a link recently where most Turkish population get their education through Television… and not through educational channels which tells me only one thing.. your govt does not want any ordinary citizen to be properly educated because if they are, then it will be very hard to control their everyday lives.. you can’t control an intelligent individual because they will stand up and fight for the truth .. as we have seen over and over in Turkey.. those people either fled the country, are imprisoned or shot to death…
Thank you
Gayane
Seervart jan.. you are absolutely correct… yes qo het hamamit em.. bayts elite aselov uzum ei haskatsnel vor mer haskatsoghutyunna shat zargatsats e… especially few of you on our discussions pages.. yes shat hpart em dzezanov… :)
Gayane .
Ms. Gayane,
You know what. just after i click on the “submit” button i suddenly realised that word “sweety” could sound a little impolite. But it was too late to change.
I am sorry for that and i will never use it again.
and your point is Necati?? I am soooo glad to know that you actually know how to use google.. i am sure all your research is done through google.. which is why it is not surprising how limited in the area of history you and your likes really are….
if you don’t have anything constructive to say which I know you do not.. i suggest you follow your own preaching and dissapear… i know you are bored and lonely.. or go back to the Turkish sites because there is nothing constructive going on there.. the perfect environment..
Gayane
Գայանե.
Մի բան AW ուղարկելուց առաջ, ես գրում եմ Wordի մեջ . Սպասում եմ, կարդում եմ, սրբագրում եմ, կարդում եմ նորից – համոզվելու համար որ սխալներ չկան. դրանից հետո միայն ուղարկում եմ Եթեր:
Այնպես որ Թուրքերը չկարողանան օգտվել իմ սխալներից, եւ օգտագործեն դրանք իմ դեմ:
Ես իհարկե շատ կրթված Թուրքերը կարող եք կարդալ հայերեն, մենք պետք է զգույշ լինենք:
You easily can change mood… what is your zodiac ? Pisces ?
ok..i know you are busy. let me leave you alone. Bye
Ayo Avery jan… completely agree…
look here:
“Before sending anything, AW, I write in Word’s. I am waiting, I’m reading, proofreading, I read it again – make sure that there are no errors. Only after I sent the broadcast.
So the Turks are unable to take advantage of my mistakes and use them against me.
I am not very educated, you can read the Armenian Turks, we should be careful.”
You are not very educated. It was apearent so that we all knew ,AVERY.
And i can not believe my eyes …you guys take it so seriously almost same as the cold war between USA and USSR…
Necati,
Either you or your translator did not do a good job at the end of translation. Nowhere did Avery say that she is “not educated”.
She probably tested you and you took the bait. By now we all know that either you or translator can read ARmenian but can’t understand everything that you read
Necati Genis, you have to get up pretty early in the morning to get one over me.
I know about Google translator. I know its weaknesses. I phrased the Armenian text in such a way that it would come out the way it did under Google, I knew you’d take and run with it. You didn’t even read the English mis-translation to learn what not to do.
the joke is on you pal.
(don’t believe me ?, have one of your Turk buddies that reads Armenian translate it for you: see what I actually said.)
Now that you stepped in it (…translate that phrase to Turkish, see what it means…), I’ll do one better. I’ll write something in Armenian in a way that the machine cannot translate. In a little while.
You are right AR. he (Avery) did it on purpose.
Yes, Necati, we take the extermination of a race seriously because genocide is the most heinous of all human crimes and because the trauma stays with the descendants of the victims for many generations. And we take the Turkish perpetration and denial of the crime as the lowest trait of a nation that considers itself “civilized”.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I LOVE IT… Necati actually took the bait.. not surprised though…they pretend to be civilized and educated and know it all… buttttt….oh Well Necati.. i guess I can say you are the uneducated one and not Avery..Avery is extremely bright and intelligent and this was the perfect proof…
Apres Avery jan… qefs galisa qo gratsnerits..:)
“You are right AR. he (Avery) did it on purpose. ”
Why do feel need to emphasize “HE” ? some think not ?
OK Necati Bey.
run this through Google translator: tell us what it says.
ბიչԹուուრրքերը շշաաლտ იպայյծუառ չლեն:
That is brilliant Avery…:) brilliant..
Necati- some posters don’t know who is female and who is male.. so that HE you are referring to was emphasized so that the posters are aware Avery is a HE and not a SHE… not sure why you felt you have to bring that up..man you people just do a scavanger hunt in every sentence dont you???
Gayane
I dont know…i will ask to Mr. Markar Eseyan and Etyen Mahcupyan tomorrow.
I hope they will take it serious..
and , Ms Avery, i prefer not to make any dialouge with you anymore..
re: “…..and , Ms Avery, i prefer not to make any dialouge with you anymore..”
too bad, Efendi Necati: you decided to slither your way back into AW, using an innocent remark by our Gayane. Now that you’re back in my back yard, I’ll go to work on you. Prepare well, because you need to – to match wits with me. You post something, I’ll be all over you. Make sure you don’t slip, because I’ll make you apologize – like I did when you libeled Ms. Nanore Barsoumian.
And your deliberate use of ‘Ms Avery’: are you guys that that desperate and primitive ?
You really think I care ?
Necati, I highly recommend you to go back to your Turkish sites, you’ll get along just fine with simple-minded people.
Gor jan, You said it well. A magnitude of such as is the case of the Armenian Genocide certainly is a very serious matter and it traumatizes many generations afterwards, especially in our case that the belligerent Turkish government still denies it and we haven’t had closure yet.
Gayane jan, Azniv kuyr shenorhagalutyun. Menk polores al nayev keznov hebard enk yev paxdavor enk ezkum vor kez neman Hayuhiner dsenvel e Hay azke.
Seervart
Is that a promise Necati? ummmm ok i take that back.. because your type will say something but then break it.. Robert, you .. don’t know. it must the air and the water you both share..
Avery jan… Necati says he does not wish to dialogue with you anymore.. wow… are not you upset that Necati is ceasing to dialogue with you?? i personally would be devastated.. crushed..lol
Aweee Necati.. dont’ feel bad. it is ok… you can’t change spots on the leapord.. you tried but you failed.. it is the natural course of those who speak too soon and too proud…you will learn..
Say hello to Mr. Markar Eseyan and Etyen Mahcupyan from us.. Are they your make belief Armenian friends who support your quest to spread lies and distortion about their ancestors??? or are they for real and if they are, do they know what you are doing????just curious…
Gayane
Revised post:
Seervart ,
You borrowed Ms. Avery’s tounge ?
You all must get accustomed to the fear that i will always be tracing behind you for fling your funny claims in your teeth …
At least, until Ms. Gayane tells me go away…
BTW: i posted “ბიչԹուուრրքերը շշաաლտ იպայյծუառ չლեն: ” to Mr. Etyen Mahcupyan on his column asking for the meaning . I am waiting for his reply . You can check his column. Eseyan and Mahcupyan are the two Armenian-Turkish jounalists who are good at their job altough i sometimes disagree..
see , i started to learn your likes and dislikes…
Friends, by reacting to people’s comments such as necati, you are giving them more credit than they deserve. Remember, one of the strategies Turks have been using against Armenians is to keep them busy pursuing nonproductive issues. Find a way to unite Armenians and come up with a super country in the region. You would be in offensive mode rather than being subject to suppress your dreams. I admire your spirit of Armenianism. As long as there is only one Armenian like you guys, Turks would be on the run.
Gayane, “…At least, until Ms. Gayane tells me go away…”
You might consider taking up Necati’s offer and withdrawing your invitation.
I don’t think anybody here missed him when he went away.
He is not even intellectually challenging. At least some of the other Denialists are somewhat interesting to do literary battle with.
This guy is a hateful Anti-Armenian simpleton. He just flings mud and insults. You have read his posts @ the Turks sites: no substance.
You and I can go irritate him in his own back yard.
If he posts disinformation here, we have no choice but counter it. If he’s away, we can concentrate on more worthy and useful (for us) adversaries.
In any case, it’s your call.
Comments like Gor’s rise above the noise to the crux of the issue. Thank you. The truth must not be allowed to get clouded over or obscured by nonsense. At the same time, Avery, don’t think that I don’t appreciate your willingness to rush into the fray and take on the misinformation and propaganda here. Someone has to do it and you do it so well! And Gayane and Seervart’s heart emboldens the rest of us. Ours is definitely a task that requires the varying contributions of all of us. Still, I agree with Papken’s caution to avoid getting too distracted by the noisemakers who try to throw us off our game.
Dear Boyajian, Ku djeshkerdoren mez zennoghagan achkov hokepanelet ints hamar isgagan arjek ge hamarem vorovhedev kidem te ku isgagan gochumn ou bashdonn e hokepanutyune. Shad ou yergar abris!!!
Mahcubyan & Esayan are two columnists of Today’s Zaman & Agos weekly of late Hrant Dink & it always makes me proud to be a proud Armenian when I read their articles.Both have courage & real bull’s b…ls to write about our tragic history to the people whose ancestors have made it tragic to us.
In plain English… when the ‘khents’ attack… don’t answer… all your times/efforts have greater value to waste upon responses. Also their ill conceived uneducated and deliberate messages are merely to annoy, distract, and divert our attention… don’t fall for their obvious tactics. Your time
and efforts are due and worthy of honest dedications…
Boyajian jan..– Thank you.. You are one of the best .. and I never stopped admiring your knowledge and professionalism.. you are a true commentator..:)
Papken jan– You are absolutely right and I agree with you 100%.. what can they do? they are souless and lost people… they don’t have anything better to do.. and yes even though we need to rebuttal every nonsense, we sure don’t have to entertain them on anything else…
Here is the kicker….
Avery jan-.. I read Necati’s comment.. GUess he does not know sarcasm when he reads one..BUT I don’t know how I developed such lov from Necati for him not to leave us until I tell him to……ahhh.. my heart is just full of joy.. (che ha.. inch em asum?? lol) .i must have done a great job winning his heart.. :) ay ay ay ay ay…
BUt if this is what it will take, here it goes..
Efendi Necati-… Even though my heart will be saddened because you will no longer be with us..(tear rolling down onmy cheek) what I am about to say…Well, you are not welcomed on these pages going forward.. the ONLY time you can return (as we are always happy to have constructive discussions) to join such civilized and organized discussions is when you are ready to apologize not only for insulting few great people on AW, but to all of us … The apology must be sincere .. You must understand that Genocide is cruel, violent, and inhumane…Genocide was perpetrated by your ancestors and by you and your comrads’ denial nothings will change…You need to understand that denial is the last stage of Genocide and to be Anti- ARmenian will only hurt your relationship with everyone who is open to talking with you…So Unless you come in terms with your demons and fears, we are not going to entertain you….It is only when you repent, recognize and apologize you will be welcomed on these discussions.. Avery, myself and many will see you on the TUrkish sites.. You can count on that….So here is my decleration… Good day sir…
Sincerely,
Gayane
Heartfelt thanks to Gayane and Seervart for their kind words.
Dear Ms. Gayane,
Below is a conversation between I and an (just guessingArmenian-Turkish in a Turkish newspaper.
I send it only to you ,not for AW ,in order to show you for what an Armenian thinks about extreemest peoples like Ms./Mr. Avery . So please do not publish it on AW since i dont want to be considered as “uninvited guest” after you told me not to comment on your paper anymore.
Here is my first post:
Dear Mr. Mahcupyan. I know you have Armenian origins which is no problem for me since i think we can live together in peace… Even tough it as off-topic; i feel responsible for my country to copy what a general Armenian, named AVERY, ( who i had some dog-fights in a newspaper- Armenianweekly) wants for us BAD TURKS and our country. BTW, i will keep copy-paste from those anti-turkish sites and post here…..Here is what he says in a recent post of his : “? Back to what I want forTurkey: I want Turkey to shatter into 3-4 pieces, so it no longer presents a clear and present danger to my homeland and my people? I would very much like for the Turks to go back to their own homeland at the base of the Altai Mountains?.. So I don?t really care if it ends up being Islamist, Kemalist, Fascist, Communist, whatever. As long as it breaks up into manageable pieces?. The 25-30 Million Kurds and Zaza can no longer be contained. The more rights they get the more they?ll demand. Independence is only a matter of time. In this day and age suppression will not work either. And of course they are too numerous to be wiped out like Armenians were. Once Kurds and Zaza break free, the breakup of Turkey will pick up pace. Turkey has many, many enemies. When they go down like the Ottoman Empire, the long knives will come out to carve it up. ?? I graduated with honors from the Armenian KGB?s (at the time) Directorate of Psychological Warfare, Psyops
Here is Mr. CEM’s answer:
Necati Efendi, what dooes Etyen Mahcupyan has to do with these. Keep a level ahead. I could not understand your logic. Why should you write this crap under Mahcupyan’s page, like he is responsible for what radical Armanians are doin. You are not serving to anything good except spreading the hatred. Also, this piece was not about Armanian issue, it is about the political parties and the US’ scholars wrong inferences based on wrong assumptions. We like the Way Etyen writes.
My reply back:
@CEM , if you read my post carefully , you will see i said i had no problem with Armenians. More, my best friend in Turkish Army service was an Armenian. I too said it is off-topic”. and i posted not only in Mr. Etyen’s column but also others not Hay. A ” radical Armenian”? oh well, it seems 99% of Armenians looks extreemest including their president.i will keep posting ..you can make sure. last, i think Turkish-Armenians must do something against these fascists .
You can find this nothing to do with your job.But i just felt i should.
BTW: I would suggest you and other reasonable , Armenians who are still human, not to let people who have only hatred, revenge in their hearts effect you. Also he has no historical nor intellectual ( he blamed me with unintellegancy) knowladge. for prove, you can just delete quotes from his writings , and then you will left with almost ZERO. His job is only a “copy-paste from others and talk poisonous. He is no use for not only us but also for You Armenians. If he is entrusted with propaganda , he has chosen wrong job.
Ms. Gayane, i would be thankful if you say Boyajian that i just saw his reply to me while i was reading oldies. :
“A polite cup of coffee is lovely. I drink my coffee strong and not too sweet; then turn the cup over and wait to see what it has to tell me. “
Mr. Boyajian,
I am really sorry for missing your post while I as out of AW. I just saw your post when I was checking AW archives . I would sure love it if you had any chance to visit Turkey no matter what has been said here AW. (I like same taste too. Not me but my elder sister knows how to read what the cup says very well)
I wish You , Ms. Gayane and all humanity happier days in future.
Necati Genis
Necati… You are one messed up individual…sorry for my blunt expression…
You just can’t get through your think head that Armenians on these pages are not hateful or revengeful.. they are fed up with messed up people like yoursel who denies denies and denies… So when you people realize what you are doing, and instead of spreading WRONG impression of Armenians who all they want to do is get justice and recognition for your BARBARIC ancestors did to our peace loving and civilized Ancestors, you may want to stop and understand our frustration.. Of course it is easy to blame us because your likes are always trying to find ways to slither yourselves out of this mess but guess what Necati??? NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY… it won’t work.. we are well aware how manipulaive and whiners your likes are… we have had plenty of encounters with you..
By the way, i did not get anything you posted .. and guess what?? What you post on AW is visible to everyone.. so your post will be viewed by all who have access to AW.. so not sure why you made a point to mention to me not to share it with everyone.. even if it is just for me, i can’t just not share it with my comrads.. sorry….
Boyajian is a she and not a he.. Avery is a he and not a she.. .what are you??? i still can’t figure ut.. i am thinking a he or a she or a whatever… but i can’t just type it up if i don’t know like you are doing.. confirm before you speak…
You have a nice day Necati.. and humanity will see happier days if Turkey breaks up like Avery said.. and you OMITED THE PART where Avery said that he wishes no harm or death on ordinary Turkish people.. you DO REMEMBER reading that part right? wellof course not.. You denialists only pick and chose what works for you.. such hypocrite…
Gayane
I apologize to Ms. Boyajian for my wrong typing.