The advisory opinion by the Court of International Justice (CIJ), issued on July 22, 2010 in response to a request by the United Nations General Assembly, referenced several principles that are relevant to Artsakh’s determination to achieve de jure recognition as an independent state. These principles included the right of self-determination and remedial secession. (See “Artsakh and the CIJ’s Advisory Opinion on Kosovo,” The Armenian Weekly, August 21, 2010.)
However, as Stepanakert seeks to achieve de jure recognition, it is important that the liberated territories presently referred to as the “security zone” or “occupied territories” are considered part of the Nagorno Karabagh Republic. Without these lands, which were part of historic Armenian Artsakh, the long-term outlook for Karabagh within its present borders is problematic. A vital first step in laying an effective claim to these peripheral lands requires the resettlement of Armenian families in strategically located villages that are effectively linked to the core area of Stepanakert/Shushi. Without a resident population, any claim to these lands is tenuous at best.
Present-day Israel is an excellent example of a nation fortifying future claims to land that it militarily occupies. While Israel continues to carry on negotiations with the Palestinians, it also continues to settle contested East Jerusalem and to establish Jewish settlements in strategic locations within the West Bank. There will be those quick to say that Armenia is not Israel. True, but does that mean we lack the ability or the commitment to settle Artsakh or that we must be constrained by fear of what may happen if we do?
Mevlut Cavusoglu, the Turkish representative to the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly (PACE) and its current president, successfully reactivated a dormant ad hoc subcommittee established in 2005 to consider the Nagorno-Karabagh issue over the strenuous objection of the Armenian representative. Attempts by Turkey or Azerbaijan to infringe the mediating authority of the Minsk Group (France, Russia, and the United States) cannot be considered helpful to Artsakh’s cause. This is another reason why the strategic resettlement of Artsakh has such great urgency.
During the 16 years since the ceasefire in 1994, little has been done to increase the population of Artsakh or to increase its low birthrate. Without an effective resettlement program, the population of Artsakh will actually decrease each year given the fact that the fertility rate, which determines the number of births annually, is below the replacement level fertility rate, which is critical to maintaining current population levels. Granted, tremendous strides have been made to repair and expand the infrastructure and develop the economy, but the inability to increase population numbers and their strategic distribution within Artsakh represents a serious shortcoming.
The current population of Artsakh is estimated at about 150,000 people, most of whom live in the districts comprising Nagorno-Karabagh. With an area of 4,425 square miles (11,459 square kilometers) the density is almost 34 people per square mile. If the estimated population of 40,000 in the core area (Stepanakert/Shushi) is subtracted, the density for all of Artsakh decreases to about 25. Since population is seldom, if ever, evenly distributed throughout a country, extensive areas within Artsakh are devoid of a resident population. Without a resident population, the claim to these “vacant” lands is seriously weakened.
Yerevan has certain legitimate political constraints as well as a self-imposed reticence that inhibits its open participation in any resettlement program. However, there are no constraints on either Stepanakert, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF), or any number of organizations such as the Tufenkjian Foundation (active in repopulation efforts), Fund for Armenia Relief (FAR), the Armenian General Benevolent Union (AGBU), the Armenian Relief Society (ARS), or the Armenian Missionary Association of America (AMAA), which are all concerned about the future of Artsakh. Each organization is fulfilling its specific mission. However, these separate missions have components that dovetail in part with the efforts of other organizations. It is time that the visionary myopia is corrected. Artsakh’s cause should transcend any narrow organizational interests that may exist or political ideology (if that should be the problem). The required resettlement project is a very ambitious but an absolutely necessary undertaking. If organizations allocate only a portion of their resources, both human and financial, to a cooperative effort, it becomes logistically and financially feasible to achieve the necessary objectives. Cooperation in no way precludes each group from continuing its core mission.
Throughout the diaspora, there are many families that would consider the opportunity to begin life anew in Artsakh. This might include families in Armenia as well. However, a successful resettlement program must begin by having potential participants undergo a basic screening process to determine (as best as possible) their expectations and ability to adapt to their new environment.
This screening process would also provide a valuable inventory of the participants’ occupations. The village clusters should be able to function, as much as possible, as self-contained economic and social units. The assignment of families can be made using this occupational data. From this group many of the skills needed within the village cluster can be met. Since the integration of the new arrivals with the existing population might create some issues, it is prudent to populate new villages rather than to in-fill existing villages (although that can remain an option in certain situations). Also, there must be an awareness that Diasporan Armenians are not all cut from the same cloth. Knowing this will eliminate some unnecessary problems.
The resettlement program must meet specific objectives if it is to be successful. Village clusters must be located 1) to achieve the strategic military need to effectively occupy vacant lands, 2) where there are sufficient natural resources to support an economy that will sustain the resident population, and 3) to facilitate development of the basic infrastructural needs (roads, potable water, and other utilities).
The final requirement is providing the necessary infrastructure that will address the social and cultural needs of the population. This includes, but is not limited to, a school, playground, clinic, and community center.
To meet these requirements at the lowest per (family) unit cost requires developing village clusters that facilitate these objectives. The configuration of these clusters, their distribution, and population size will be determined by topography, the resource base, and the specific strategic objective to be achieved (see accompanying diagram). Since the road is the lifeline tying these village clusters with one another and ultimately to the core area (Stepanakert/Shushi), they should be passable yearlong under normal conditions by four-wheel drive vehicles.
The 3-village cluster would occupy 32 square kilometers or about 12 square miles. Each village would have about 40 households (120-200 individuals). Within the 3-village cluster there would be approximately 120 households with 360-600 individuals.
The 5-village cluster would occupy a greater area of 64 square kilometers, or about 23 square miles. These villages would also have about 40 households each (120-200 individuals). Within the 5-village cluster there would be approximately 200 households with 600-1,000 individuals. Within either cluster, villages would be no further than 3-4.5 kilometers (1.8-2.7 miles) from the central village. No village (in the 5-village cluster) would be more than 3 kilometers (1.8 miles) from the main road.
A target resettlement population of 50,000 individuals (10,000-17,000 families based on an average of 3-5 members in a family) living in either a 3- or 5-village cluster would effectively “occupy” about 1,000 square miles more or less, or approximately 25 percent of Artsakh’s total area of 4,225 square miles. Given that the boundaries of village clusters are not contiguous and much of the area cannot be effectively settled because of topographic and resource limitations, the strategic location of these clusters would meet the spatial imperative to occupy and integrate these “empty” lands with the core area.
Each village cluster would be large enough to populate a school, facilitate a range of social interactions, and allow for an exchange of goods and services produced within the cluster based in part on bartering. A health clinic could be staffed by a nurse and a midwife from within the village cluster or a government-employed nurse who would be assigned two to three clinics to visit on her scheduled weekly rounds.
The size and the varied occupational backgrounds of the settlers are key to the success of the resettlement project. Human interaction is a vital psychological component that contributes to an effective emotional attitude. These settlers cannot feel isolated either individually or as a group. Having an opportunity to interact with a sufficiently diverse number of people to develop friendships, to engage in events and situations of various types, and to benefit from the different professional and economic backgrounds of their neighbors are essential to the success of the project.
Stepanakert, working with the participating organizations, would advise settlers as to the types of economic activity that would be most productive, whether agrarian or non-agrarian, as well as provide appropriate technical assistance. The location of these clusters would be based not only on strategic military considerations, but on their economic potential to sustain the settlers. There must be a workable plan to market what these village clusters produce. Establishing cooperatives may be necessary to facilitate production as well as access markets. Any resettlement program must contribute to increasing the gross domestic product (GDP) of Artsakh; otherwise, the program becomes financially unsustainable. As these village clusters increase in number, they will serve to stimulate the overall economy of Artsakh (see “The Key to Armenia’s Political and Economic Future,” The Armenian Weekly, January 2010 Special Magazine Issue).
The strategic resettlement of Artsakh seeks to connect the vacant territories located primarily beyond Karabagh with the core area. Shorn of these liberated territories, Karabagh would essentially remain an exclave irrespective of its ultimate recognition as an independent entity. The Lachin Corridor is its only land connection with Armenia and it is a precarious link at best. The liberated territories to the south of Karabagh and the Lachin Corridor (the districts of Kubatly, Zangelan, Jebrail, and the western half of Fizuly) protect this circuitous umbilical cord as well as the approaches to the core area of Stepanakert/Shushi. Kelbajar is strategically important because it is the drainage basin of several rivers providing water (a valuable resource) to the surrounding region. Any future road from Armenia to northern Karabagh to supplement the Lachin Corridor connection must pass through this district.
The strategic resettlement of Artsakh is important for any number of reasons. However, its greatest importance is the fact that Armenians assert their right to resettle historic Armenian Artsakh. For the first time in modern Armenian history, Armenians have been successful in defeating a despotic Turkic government to achieve their independence. It should never be forgotten that the 7,000 azatamartiks (freedom fighters) who sacrificed their lives for Artsakh’s freedom are as much our martyrs as are our ancestors whose lives were taken in the genocide. The de jure recognition of Artsakh requires a unified effort to be successful. If we cannot succeed here, where can we succeed?
Michael Mensoian
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Mr. Mensoian,
Please be informed that many have had the idea and outspokenly-even on this forum-upheld the strategic,nay essential necessity for re-populating even tripling population in Artsakh. Nonethe less thank you for re-reminding that ISSUE.
Repatriation per se is an IMPORTANT ,very imperative rather, matter that both Fatherland and Diaspora should seriously meditate upon . This also ,NOT ENOUGH.
ACTION/ACTIVISM is needed and not haphazardly individually or by a few patriots,such a Tufenkchian had initiated in KARVAJAR-kelbajar,,,, the Lachine and surrounding areas liberated. A coordinated nationally or at the very least Huge collectivity enterprise conducted FUND,such as, I have suggested through PROFESSIONAL COLLEAGUES ASSOCIATIONS must be initiated-first through a NUCLEUS(our 5/6 MAGNATES) formed ,then milllionaires would chip in down all the way to thousand dollar or even 100$ INVESTORS-Mind you ,not donating INVESTING IN THE NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND.Then we can talk, for you know quite well that this substance does t a l k
very kindly
G.P.
A superb article with ideas that Armenian political parties should listen to.
With all due respect to the author and others who wish the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (or Artsakh) well, the call to populate the occupied territories with Armenian settlers seems to me extremely unwise. First, Armenia and Artsakh are already losing population; second, the Government of Armenia has never claimed those territories, and a claim to them by Stepanakert would be legally and politically very weak, as Mr. Mensoian himself admits; and third, a just and lasting settlement of the dispute with Azerbaijan is going to require some version of a “land for peace” deal (with status also addressed). One might also note that, strategically, if you try to defend everything, you end up defending nothing. Better to concentrate on the very real threats that exist today than to reach for more (as Israel has done) and risk losing all. Yerevan has been wise up to now. Treating the territories as a necessary buffer zone is one thing, but to further enrage Azerbaijan by staking a formal claim to more of its territory would be pure folly.
Mr. Evans:
Are you John Marshall Evans, former US Amb. to RoA ?
Yes Amerikian despan Hayastanum 2004-06.
I like the repatriation idea, can I have the authors email to contact him.
With all due respect t you’re completely WRONG in all your supposed points. it is not for you to give this kind of FALSE advice no matter how you claim to be.
That’s what I am talking about, you need an ANCHA (Armenian National Committee for the resettlement of Homeless Armenians) to resettle Armenians in their homeland and give them housing and gainful employment there!
I’m very much interested in this idea too. I would also like to contact the author about this issue.
Dear Ambassador Evens, I have heard the points you are making in your comment here in a speech you gave in New York. First let me express my appreciation of your support of Armenia and the Armenian people. However, I do believe that this outlook is rather short term and does not necessarily represent the best interest of Armenia or Armenians. Land is a precious commodity when it comes to nation building. As such giving any of it up would be short sighted at best and destructive at worst. The Armenians have lost most of their homeland over the years and this is the first time that they have gained land. The concentration should be on capitalizing on this gain for the long term. There is no need to defend everything, just the lands that have been gained with the blood of Armenian young people should be defended.
How about populating it with refugees from other parts of Azerbaidjian. Then what are the Azery’s going to say od do. Unfortunately, the middle class got burned really bad during the “nerkaght” movement. For that type of resettlement, you need country people. They need land. Give them land and they will crawl to it if they have to and defend it when they get there. However, Communism is alive and well in Armenian mentality. The land is not being distributed to the individuals. It still largely belongs to the government or collectively. “O yeah, let the collective defend it. ” Auction off excess land. Let people trade those land titles as they wish and let private enterprise take over. You want to meddle with the economy, then provide credit to peasants to buy what they need. Meddle in a good way; “minimum crop price guarantees” , Equipment credit, tree planting credit, etc. Land reclamation credits, New enterprise tax deferments and credits, etc. Make it profitable and they wii settle. Also, an American style “homestead claims” program would work well.
Dear honorable Mr. Evans,
Armenians of Atsakh gave their blood and claimed their rightful indepencence…their heroism goes well before collapse of USSR, during 1988…all lands either “occupied” or liberated belong to republic of Artsakh…they are the ones who should make decision and Armenia should be their gurantors of their security…diaspora Armenians will be supporters of Artsakh Government….one more thing why Armenia officialyy do not claim Nakhijevan. The territories of (NKR) Artsakh and some parts of Western Armenia such as Van and surrounding areas, was part of a deal between Ottomans and Bolshevik rulers, where approved by Lenin and Ataturk…these lands and a place called Azerbaijan never been as an independent State… either they were parts of Ottomans or parts of Russian Empire, where ottomans occupied from Iran, then Russians occupied back from Ottomans!! NOW there is no more Ottomans and no USSR and no more Russian Empire, these lands should go back to their rightful owners where their civilizations marked way before Mongol- Turks invaders or even Russians!!
Fredrick, I take your comments seriously. I think, though, that land is overvalued in today’s globalized world. What matters most now is intellectual capacity and good governance. Even geographically small states like Singapore can thrive. Armenia has huge potential given her historical and cultural stress on education and professionalism. By the way, you can be sure that any advice I offer is meant to be helpful and not harmful to Armenia and Armenians, including those in Artsakh.
“A man’s got to know his limitations”, Detective Harry Callahan (movie Magnum Force).
To paraphrase Dirty Harry: “A nation’s got to know its limitations”
“Throughout the Diaspora there are many families that would consider the opportunity to begin life anew in Artsakh.”
The opportunity? Correct. An opportunity for Glendaleians to drive their SUVs in the mountains of Karabag!! How many of them are there?
you nonstop BS’ing only make us laugh at you even harder and provide us with entertainment with typical display of your world class turkish “intelligence” . your display of self only making us even more determined to reach out goals. So go on with your tripe and drivels about SUVs, Glendale all other such nonsense that your kind seem to be expert at.
By the way, have you watched Kobe’s Turkish Airlines commercial? Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaSdRARVWFg
very cool
I’d like to ask Mr. Evans how he feels if the US were to give a large part of the US southwest back to Mexico? I mean, like he said, land is overrated in a globalized world.
Anyone who really believes that NK will become “independent”, and eventually becoming part of Armenia, are living in a fantasy world! Be advised that any such attempt will end in utter disaster for Armenia proper (doing so will unleash a pandora’s box that will have global implications)!! Nineteen years is a long time to be patient! Your board can censor and/or delete me all they want, but it’s in all of your best interests to heed this warning!!! Do not go there!!
Dear Ambassador Evans,
First of all, it’s a great pleasure to have you here! Thank you for all you did and continue to do for the peace in that region.
With all due respect, please understand that Armenian lands can not be “overvalued” or “undervalued”. How would you value the plot of land where my ancestors are buried?
In America, the land was taken from the Native Americans by the newly arrived European “nomads” and that’s why it is bought and sold essentially as stolen property. This became part of the psycho of the newly formed nomadic culture. Churches can be demolished, sold, graveyards moved, or plainly bulldozed if they belong to Native Americans or slaves. Everything is temporary and valued in the funny money – this is a civilization similar to the Turkic nomadic civilization. It is not good or bad, it’s just different from the settled Armenian civilization.
If the purpose of this new “globalized” order is to turn everybody into a nomad constantly roaming the planet to find a new place to devastate and move on then, Armenians would not buy it for all the funny money in the world and all the plastic trinkets made in China.
Singapore is not a subject to a NATO-member imposed blockade and has a sea port.
The solution for the current situation will come when the so-called “Azerbaijan” Sultanate runs out of oil and disappears. Armenians waited for hundreds of years to be free from the Turkic Yoke, we can wait for another 20-30 years and when it happens, all Armenian lands all the way to the river Kur will join Armenia. The rest of the lands that the Turkic nomads currently occupy will be returned to now oppressed ethnic minorities of Lezgi, Tat, Tolysh, etc. peoples. This will be a just and lasting settlement of the dispute with the Turkic nomads that would not require any “land for peace” deal.
Armenian nation paid for these liberated lands with precious blood of its defenders and innocent civilians and there is no power in the world to take it from us again.
Thank you again for your courage!
Ahmet:
Since you guys keep repeating, I’ll keep repeating:
When all the millions of Turks currently residing in Europe, having previously escaped the ‘prosperous’ paradise of Turkey, return to Turkey, you can give us advice about returning to Arsakh or RoA.
BTW: you ‘civilized’ Turks are hated and despised in Europe; look up what Angela Merkel said; look up what the Austrian MP said; read what Sarkozy said about multiculturalism (he meant Muslims…)
And when all of you guys return to Turkey, please continue on back to the lush Mongolian steppes and beautiful countryside of Altai Mountains.
Then, we’ll return to Artsakh, RoA, Western Armenia, and Cilicia. Deal ?
AR:
Mexico was invaded and conquered by Spaniards. By the time US fought the war with Mexico, the Spaniards had mixed with the natives. So Mexicans were not really the natives any more: it was a case of invader vs invader.
Yes, Europeans did displace indigenous Native Americans. There certainly were massacres of natives by Europeans. Large numbers were killed by European diseases that Native Americans had no immunity to (e.g. smallpox). But there was no State Organized Genocide: Stop conflating the two.
US does not try to hide or obliterate the fact that there were Native Americans before Europeans showed up. Native Americans are honored as part of America and Americans.
Same deal though: when all the invaders of Historic Armenia and Byzantium leave and return to their points of origin in the Mongolian Steppes, then we can work on Europeans going back to Europe. It is only fair, since you guys have been unwelcome guests for about 1,000 years and Europeans only 500 years. You should leave first. Deal ?
Robert:
Artsakh is independent.
As to your warnings: there was another tough guy that warned Armenians: he said he’ll hang the last Armenian remaining in Artsakh in the central square of Stepanakert. He promised to wash his feet in Lake Sevan. His name was Ebulfez Elchibey. He had to flee Baku for his life: his Azeri buddies there were going to hang him. He died ignominiously in Nakhchivan, another piece of occupied Armenian land.
Avery,
As President Reagan would say…”There you go again”. Once more, your quotes of Dirty Harry cuts BOTH ways!
Ahmet,
You just remind me of that famous Russian joke….they asked a Russian soldier, what do you drive in your country he proudly said Lada,,,,,and what would you drive outside of your country he replies a T72 tank….now Ahmet if I can be able drive my Jeep Cherokee…then easily I can switch when I get to Artsakh to a T72 tank or any tank that peasant Azeri Turk will leave behind for a life saving shelter!! may Allah be your side if the war beak out in Atrsakh, because this time we will get to Baku..we need to improve our highways from Caspian sea to Yerevan!! there are many Monte Melkonian type individuals who are expert on widening, and improving highway safety..
Ahmet, why do you have short memories?? are you a Turk???in the last conversation I told you, that I am not living in USA…Armenians are spreaded all over the world because of Armenian Genocide committed by your Islamized grand fathered, who called themselves Turks..
Dear AR,
I very much like your answer to Mr. John Evans. They all mean well, but these were Armenian homelands for thousands of years. Yet in the case of America, it was not the homeland of today’s Americans. These people came in 200+ years ago and took over the land that the Indians occupied long ago. If land is overvalued in today’s globalyzed world, then America must give some of her lands back to Mexico and to the Indians? Yet Artsakh was and still is our historical homeland for several thousands of years and it shall remain to the Armenians.
Dear Michael,
I like your article and I agree with it. It’s a good article and it shall be helpful for us, I simply hope that both the local Artsakhtsis do remain in their homeland as well as the Diasporans to migrate to the Kelbajar’s territories that are practiclaly void of population.
Painting a bleak picture of what will happen,if Armenians press for re-population(for it was primarily Armenian land and thus populated) in liberated lands,is a turco-azeri style ¨chantage¨nay threats,that unfortunately our ¨sympathizers¨also easily accept and submit too. Pray tell me what if we plan to liberate NAKHIJEVAN in next war that Alieve and company day in day out propose,rather officially pronounce in their discourses.
Reason Armenian ¨Bahanjadirutyun¨ -litterarily translated as-OWNINGDEMAND IS NOT AS YET CONDUCTED,can be attributed to various reasons,such as quite recent imposed war with concocted up state Azerbaijan(such state did not exist before 1918,it is a largely made up of other nationalities such as Persian Lenkoranis, Daghestanis etc.,those who know history understand ) prior to that devastating earthquake.Now just beginning to awaken and step firmly so to speak .Both in Armenia/Artsakh and Huge diaspora(as yet not well organized).
However, to the chagrin of ONLY two neighbours,Armenia /Artsakh will with coopeeration of its Diaspora forge ahead pretty soon with much more SPEED.Our aforementioned DEMANDS will by and by take shape and be lodged legally at international instances-Regardless and in spite of its true DEMANDS for Genocide recognition ,especially by (again) two important states ,those of England ,ex British Empire, then Great Britain, presently U.K.who knows in near future just England and on the other side of the ocean U.S.,not being willing to be kind enough and confirm their acceptance that great Turkey,heir to Ottoman Empire commigtted that horrible CRIME.
Armenians have been known as an over-patient people,this may cease to be .it is time that those two couple nation states realize that we are a determined LOT.
NK ,next (if aggravated by Aliev to ignite war) Nakhijevan is our quest.Western Armenia and Western Armenian Entity is just brewing in EU,at present.
What should one say about the vast empty lands of Canada? Should Canada relinquish 80% of its lands because it is not populated? Should Libya shrink its territories because it is 90% empty of people.
Armenian refugees from Azerbaijan (estimated 350 thousand) have every right to settle in Artzakh.
The proper name is Artzakh. (It is not NK, Karabakh, Nagorno, Garbagh, or Nagorni-Karanakh.)
I can’t believe what I just saw written by a Washington official, and one that is supposedly on our side! Need I say more about Washington? Need I say more about politicians in Washington? Need I say more about the crucial necessity of emphasizing our pan-national efforts in Moscow instead of Washington? Landlocked, small, poor and without oil/gas – Armenia will always play second fiddle for politicians in Washington.
Voskanapat- good comment.
1. There WERE liberated Armenian territories. Now there are the CONSTITUTIONAL territories of the independent Armenian Republic of Artsakh (ARA), which has met ALL 3 criteria (land, population, effective government) to be a state under international law.
2. Those liberated Armenian territories IS THE COMPENSATION to the Armenian refugees from Azerbaijan (appx. 400 thousand), who were brutally driven out from Azerbaijan after 1988 Genocide/Massacres on Armenians in Baku, Sumgait, Kirovabad, Dashkestan,Shahumian, etc-without taking ANY property or valuables with them.
3. Some people have very short memory why those territories were liberated in the first place.
I myself have lived all the horrors of the war first hand. Azeris were bombarding all the time with GRAD missiles all the towns and villages IN ARMENIA near the border.
I remember how people in KAPAN ( Capital of Syunik province of Armenia) were living/”living” in underground shelters/mines FOR DAYS. Among them my sister with her new born baby girl. Even Azeri war-planes bombarded the town center in the summer of 1993-killing dozens of people and destroying many houses and buildings. A girl-Meri Mezhlumian-lost her both hands.
The favorite “passtime”/play of the children in those shelter/mines was: “whose house will next be hit by Azeri GRAD missiles “.
4. I guess others are USED TO that always it must be Armenians who have to give (up) this or that for……..broken promises. NOT anymore.
5. The Artsakh national-liberation war was/is ONLY a part of the Armenian Issue: which is to TAKE BACK illegaly stolen Armenian territories so that the Armenian nation can develop itself securely.
Thus- the rest of Artsakh (non-mountainous Artsakh) is still occupied by Azerbaijan. As well as the Armenian lands bewteen the rivers KUR and Arax till Caspian see.
6. If you all have the possibility- JUST GO and live, open businneses in liberated territories of Artsakh. IT IS YOUR LAND. Think of it as a compensation to what happened to your grandparents in 1893-1923.
And, please, DO NOT forget about the southernmost province/marz of Armenia-SYUNIK. Syunik is a VERY strategically important region for Armenia and Artsakh (and liberated territories). But today we need a helping hand there (and clean investments), as the main employer there-the mining industry- destroys its eco-system and its wonderful nature.
Njdeh’s hart is buried in the slopes of mountain Khustup, near Kapan.
PS. Yes, we can TOO.
Harutiun:
Frmr. Amb. Evans lost a promising diplomatic career because he was man enough, and had enough of the true American spirit left in him, to utter the words ‘Armenian Genocide’, banned by his bosses, the US Executive Branch/State Department, which is at the moment infested by delusional Neocons.
We can’t all march in lockstep.
Read my comment above about Dirty Harry: it was meant for us. Laws of physics trump any and all feelings: always have, always will. You don’t start something without thinking thru of what happens next.
Dear Ambassador Evans, there is no doubt in my mind that you have the best interest of Armenians in mind. However, I am still not sure land is overvalued. If it was so over valued the Azeris and Turks would not be so eager to annihilate the Armenians and cleans the caucuses from Armenians to make room for their own nations. You are right Armenians are well-educated and hard working people. However, Armenia is no Singapore. The comparison is not even comparing apples to oranges. It is comparing apricots to a well-oiled machine! The attributes you mentioned in your post about Armenians coupled with Christian morality and forgiveness has actually hurt Armenians. They have been good people, followed the rules and lived their lives as good Citizens and Christians. While their neighbors and occupiers, with the exception of Iran, have been belligerent and hostile. All of this has led to diminished population and disappearing land over the last thousand years or more. It is high time for Armenia and Artsakh to be engaged with the politics of the world and start playing the game with the same rules as the rest of the countries as opposed to being meek and thinking they will inherit the earth. If they follow the same line of thinking and behavior that has brought them to this point, they will disappear from this earth before inheriting it.
Avery:
You missed my point. I was aiming to show how the comment made by John Evans was simple and indeed unrealistic. I know my history quite well so I do not need a lesson from you.
As for physics, forget that, you should learn about geopolitics.
Here is how I would approach the repatriation task:
1. Divide the seven counties that need to be repopulated into zones of responsibility between the largest Armenian diaspora communities: USA, Russia, Canada, Europe, Arab countries, South America and Iran.
2. Have each of them come up with resources to build/restore/repopulate a community in their county with a complete self sustainable town. This includes energy (wind, solar, hydro?), housing (according to the standards of middle class living in that region), schools, health care facilities, infrastructure, and industry. Few good things about this division – healthy sense of competition, less culture shock for repatriates, each donor country/region gets a stake – a few thousand of our citizens live there and a few million of our voters support them back home – do not try to attack them Sultan Aliyev!
3. Select candidate families willing to move and provide them with necessary resources for the first few years. I think many people would buy into this especially young families with kids. Provide the newly arrived with everything they would need for the first few years, including airfare back in case it didn’t work out for some (have alternatives waiting to take their places).
4. Adjust Artsakh law to have these towns as “free economic zones” like China-Hong Kong have with emphasis on the integration of the youngest generation – these going to first grade studying primarily in Armenian.
5. Have a special Artsakh hard currency preferably just plain old minted gold coins deposited in the National Bank for each family as a start up capital.
6. Have long term planning for the growth and expansion of these communities over the next 5-10-25 years focusing on integration.
Let’s say the initial investment would be about $50,000 per person for a 1,000 people – that’s only $50 million which is very affordable for any of the above mentioned donor countries. It could be planned for 2015 – plenty of time to prepare and launch the projects.
AR:
My mistake: didn’t realize you were one of us – I was too quick on the keyboard. Your post being between Ahmet and Robert threw me off.
COMPATRIOTS!
IT SIMPLY BOILS DOWN TO TWO(2) DIFFERENT ,TOTALLY DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.-
1.STAY PUT,BE MEEK AND IN CONFORMITY WITH WHAT WE DICTATE(MEEKLY) .OR
2.BE READY FOR MORE ¨PUNISHMENTS¨ from US(conglomerates,shall we say)….
YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE…..READ THIS WITH AN ENGLISH ACCENT
How precious… first attack and ethnically cleanse a land of its Azeri populations, then destroy all such evidence that these people even lived here, and then hatch policies for populating the such stolen lands with ethnic Armenians and then try to sell this to the rest of the World and ask recognition! Even Talat Pasa did not have such audacity! Oh yes, let us also remember the Israeli example – where about 2M Arabs live!! I am surprised hipocracy is not an Armenian word, but Greek!
murat, surprise surprise. you’re right back to seeing yourself with in the mirror again.
FYI, hipocracy is SOLELY a turkish term it’s neither Armenian or Greek. I do realize however, it takes elementary intelligence and humanity to realize it.
I am not sure where this chap Murat gets his info from. He turns it upside down.Artsakh (Nagornyi Karabagh has for more than millenias been Armenian.WITNESS THE MONASTERIES there.such a Gandzasar, Amaras,Dadivank and a host of others,all very very old 1000 years and much older.
Whereas the nomad turco azeri mongol seljuks by and by ¨squattered¨in to these lands only around some 500 or so yrs ago.THEY BECAME the herdsmen in Artsakh and also a pain in the ass.How can you compare the noble arab or even educated advanced Jews with such hordes that only knew to be herdsmen and good COOLIES in BAKI(that is how they pronounce the capital BAKU.In latter, also there were some 5 /6 families who started the OIL Exploration and Oil producing enterprises.These collies,ordinarty workers did serve as such, not even mechanics.latter by adn by was learned from their Armenians who headed them. Mantashians, lianazof(Armenian, Nersessiantz, later gulbenkian etc.One must have a nerve to try to deny this.We have in our archives photos and British and other European press clippings that attest to abvoe.On what do you base your findings….Armenians being an ethnic people in ARTSAKH.Wait until Aliev son starts a War again when you and your like will lament why you did not keep quiet and listen like those herdsmen and coolies to their leaders the Armenians…which would have taught them how to behave when dealing with history.Facts are necessary to support what you declare.We have them aplenty.Even in archives of the Armenian Centres in Boston and Paris,plus those in Yerevan,Armenia re what I have just posted above.
Murat, you are playing dirty politics. You are exhibiting a very short memory span of the history of the area in question. Convenient for you and your Azeri cousins, but not legitimate, accurate or ethical.
Who are you, by the way, and what is your goal in communicating with Armenians on this pro-Armenian site? Do you want to change us, get to know us, or change yourself?
Murat:
[1] re: ‘… first attack and ethnically cleanse a land of its Azeri populations..’
Fact: Armenians of Artsakh PEACEFULLY petitioned Soviet Authorities in an attempt to separate from Azerbaijan SSR, as allowed under Soviet Constitution.
Fact: In response to peaceful Armenian demands and peaceful demonstrations, Azeri mobs attacked and murdered unarmed Armenian civilians hiding in their own apartments in Sumgait and Baku. The mobs were obviously organized by Azeri authorities, because they had official lists of exact addresses in apartment buildings where Armenian families lived: these apartment building were mixed ethnicity (Armenian families, Azeri families, Russian families, intermarried families), so there were no obvious signs that there were Armenians living inside. Hundreds were savagely massacred.
Fact: In 1991 With the support of Soviet OMON, Azeri OMON attacked and ethnically cleansed the Shahumyan district of its native Armenian population. (Operation Koltso or Ring).
Fact is that Azeris are the one who started the bloodshed; Armenians didn’t. You guys attacked first and drew first blood.
What you guys object to is Armenians having the audacity to defend themselves. Turks and ‘Azeris’ prefer to slaughter unarmed civilians: sorry we have had enough. We have given enough blood to the Red Crescent.
[2] re: ‘…. then destroy all such evidence that these people even lived here,…’
Question: the soldiers that were videotaped and photographed (1998-2005) destroying centuries old Khachkars (Stone Crosses/tombstones) in Jugha/Julfa with sledgehammers, and then dumping the broken pieces in the river Arax; were they Armenian soldiers or Azeri ? Were the Khachkars Armenian or Azeri ?
For the record, I disagree with what Israel is doing and drawing any lessons from it for Artsakh.
if as you claim”the land is overruled” maybe your government that now controls a continent sized country ought to consider returning a tiny portion to its rightful owners as opposed to lecturing others about the “value” of our ancestral land.
Murats and alike on this site have only one purpose – to distract us from our fruitful discussions and turn our attention on “educating” Sultan Aliyev’s digital worriers squad.
I suggest we ignore them until the moderators delete all their posts designed to provoke Armenians to waste their time and energy on explaining the obvious to people who are not willing (and maybe paid for this) to listen.
Oh well, now that you all expalined this so clearly and logically, it suddenly made a lot of sense! Why did not our good old Ittiatcis thought of this line of logic?
Oh well, now that you all expalined this so clearly and logically with your turkish rants and drivel, it suddenly made a lot of sense!
Yes Voskanapat, that’s exactly what this Murat the turk or azerbaboon is doing. He is distracting us from being able to speak and exchange intelligent ideas by provoking us and further having us to continuously explain ourselves over and over again. I hope the moderators will not post his dirty political game posts anymore, as he is simply and fully irritating the posters in here by insulting our intelligence.
Again, Armenia does not recognize NKR because Superpowers don’t want it. Why they don’t want it is a long story. ( I wrote about this in my previous posts, ex: oil interest by Western powers, arm race with the help of Russia, keeping NKR as a number one enemy of Nabuco, bankrupting Azerbaijan with the dream of Karabagh, having an opportunity to liberate more lands, etc.). The time will pass and refugees will die, and we will close the human rights issues. Also if Aliev recognizes NKR, then we shall not have to persuade 100 countries to recognize NKR in order it to become a full member of UN. Also those are persuasive tools –giving away surrounding areas…it will not happen, also Iran does not want to reduce its boarder with Armenia..
From 2011-2019 azeris oil will dry out, and Azerbaijan will capitulate or Baku-Tbilisi_Kars railroad will function and Turkish troops will come to rescue…The problem is Turkey, not Azerbaijan, and I heard many people say that we want the world to recognize Armenian Genocide that it will not repeat itself (in general), but I will also say that Armenians should participate (Karabagh War II), if they don’t want 1915 to repeat itself (in particular)…
Azerbaijan has some options: 1. To start a new war and lose more ( Azerbaijan will be divided between Armenia, Russia and Iran), 2. Sign an agreement and recognize its loses. 3. There is no third option…
When it comes to fighting skills one must mention Basayev”s notes. Basayev was the most wanted terrorist in Russia. Imagine this, powerful Russia waged war against Basayev in Checnya, and could not get the guy for decades. Chechen jihadists were worse than animals, they used to capture Russian solders and then nail them in the cross while spreading their imagines through mass media…Anyway he wrote this about Karabagh or Artsakh: “he and his jihadists were the last fighters to leave Shusa, he said he lost only once, and it was in Karabagh, while fighting against “Dashnak battalion”. He wrote that Armenian fighters were the best in the world, and the war was the nationalistic than the religious one.
Voskanapat, Seervart:
I respectfully disagree: I commend both ArmenianWeekly and Arbarez for allowing the likes of Murat, Robert, etc to post.
I agree that the primary purpose of Armenian websites is for us: to keep us informed of events that concern us, to exchange viewpoints amongst ourselves.
However, we also absolutely, positively need to see the true face of our adversaries and enemies: Robert, Murat, and their buddies are doing us a favour.
They certainly get our blood boiling, but that also is good: we learn to control it, and channel the energy to our own benefit.
The ‘Murats’, the ‘Roberts’ exist out there, whether you allow them here or not: it is necessary to see the true face of evil, learn the way they think, learn of the lies they tell, the propaganda and disinformation they disseminate.
These exchanges are very valuable for us: you refine your debating skills; firm up the factual foundations of your arguments. (‘you’ is generic you, not personal).
Some day, you may have to debate the ‘Murats’ and the ‘Roberts’ on some (US) national stage: oftentimes, even though the truth may be on your side, if you don’t present it well enough, you lose the debate.
We oftentimes make the mistake thinking that just because the facts, the truth is on our side – everybody else, e.g. 3rd parties, see it our way.
Not true: due to pure propaganda and disinformation, Turks and Azeris have been able to muddy the waters and convince 3rd parties of things about us that are pure fiction.
When Soviet Union was established, Azerbaijan became a member of it without karabagh and then one year later karabagh entered as an autonomous region, second when the union collapsed the confederation said that the states can gain independence without preserving their used boarders, meaning that the boarders can be moved some can be extended while others can be reduced. So de facto speaking the boarder between these countries can be reduced . In 1923 there was an agreement between Kemalists and Bolshevicks, as a result Bolsheviks transferred Western Armenia, then Nakichevan and Karabagh to Turkey/Azerbaijan.In return Kemalists promised Russians that Turkey would become the center for the Communist Revolution, but this did not happen. Not only Ataturk deceived Soviets, but also concentrated a large amount of troops by the Soviet boarders during WWII….In 1940s after the WWII Stalin wanted to take Armenian territories back, but USA did not let it to happen, and Stalin was afraid of USA because America was the first to develop nuclear weapons in 40s and hydrogen in 1953. SS, Marshall claimed that US supported the territorial integrity of Turkey, and there was also a theory that it was CIA who bombed the “victory” ship in Batumi— the ship was bringing Armenians back to motherland. After that incident Stalin stopped repatriation process. Also we should not forget that USA saved thousands of Armenians from hunger during 1915-1920.
Avery is right.
Hovo, please get back on track as to what was the SUBJECT MATTER!!!
tHAT OF REPOPULATING ARTSAKH,In my version start REPATRIATION, both to Arftsakh and RA.This requires Acgtivism,also a well planned repatriation.
For latter whatever we do, we need FUNDING, not Euro-Am style Fund raising a dollar a person or the like. I have humbly suggested my viewpoints as to how our sleeping Giant must be made use of .That of our more than a 100,000 Professionals -Colleagues Associations- 5 on the scene,Then approach to our 5/6 magnates through people like Harut Sassounian and other(s) in order to INITIATE INVESTMENT.For ,what I suggest is INVESTING ,A national investment trust fund¨¨ NOT FUNDLINGS..WITH ALL DUE RESPECTG TO THOSE IN ACTION AS ABOVE DCESCRIBED STYLE.Let them carry on their method of fund rxaising,as long as they wish.But my suggdested proposal if you wish entails MOBILIZATION ARMENITY-Armenidad wise, from all continents .
To sum up,like someon above mentioned drop wasting times-me too- from now with such like intruders.or jsut listen to what they say to learn about their evil mindset.Not necessary to waste time in preparing special explanation to them.Believe it or not,ususally most this like people know quite well that their side has been the wrong doer but persist in trying to cover up or agitate us as much as possible.
ONLY IN CRUCIAL ISSUES TAKE UP WITH THEM SUCH AS A FEW,LIKE SELF DID IN EXPLAINING TO THEM OUR UNWAVERING POSITION BASED ON FACTS.
Kind rgds
g.p
Gaytzag, have you ever read something at .az (azeris blogs), you always will see any title, and then the last four paragraphs “armenia occupied 20 percent and bla, bla, bla.
This is called propaganda, I just wanted to inform other posters what is the real problem. Whether you like it or not, “security zones” are for security forces (for now), not for the population….. because a new war may come..
I am convinced that ‘Robert’, ‘Murat’, and some other ‘individuals’ who try to pass themselves off as Turks trying to engage in dialogue, are neither ‘individuals’ nor interested in anything but spreading denial and anti-Armenian political agendas. Keep this in mind when responding to their provocations. And take care not to help them find a platform for their propaganda.
Avery,
A great humanitarian to whom I have great respect to said; “To differ is healthy as long as you do it in a civilized manner”, she also said that, “Hate and force cannot be in just a part of the world without having an effect on the rest of it.” That lady was the late Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt. I read your above post and after contemplating, I tend to agree with your thoughts. Once an intelligent Armenian writer, by the name of Vahan Navasartian, who was Housaper Armenian Daily newspaper’s editor in Chief in Cairo, Egypt; said something similar pertaining to your thoughts above; that it is vital and necessary to have different beliefs, idealisms and parties, even within the Armenian community in Diaspora; BTW, Tashnagtsoutyoun and Ramgavar Azadagan Gousagtsoutyoun, because if you don’t have them, then even the people in your own party will stagnate, by not sharpening your thought processes to better fight for your beliefs, then the mind will not produce, sharpen and opt to educate onceself. So yes, basically you are reminding me and us almost the same thing; except in this case, to be able to verbally and mentally fight against our enemies, we ought to sharpen our thoughts, our knowledge and our intellect, that someday may be important for us all.
Concerning this matter of Turks or their sympathizers writing on this website, I am in full agreement with Avery’s perpsective. As Armenians , many of us have had very little direct contact with the Turkish community or individuals who represent that” viewpoint”. It is critically important for us hone our skills, understand what we are dealing with and stimulate our creative energy. We need to look at this like going to the gym and staying in shape. Sometimes it’s absurd, sometimes it’s interesting(I believe Murat is intelligent although I disagree with him on most issues) . but always important in our personal development and readiness.
Our cause has become more than a mental exercise. The emergence of a free Armenia and the geo-politics of the region have put many of our issues on the table of world review. This is a very new dynamic in the last 20+ years. For many years pror to that, our cause was mainly debated in our own communites and with annual government proclamations. In light of this,honestly, we all need to do all we can to prepare ourselves to engage and opening the post to adversarial views is appropriate.
I love it… love it… love it Hovo, Basayev admitting that Armenian Freedom Fighters are the best in the world. I knew that our men of arms are swift, with vigor and with great love to win their long lost lands; but I didn’t know that we are called the best in the world! You just put a big smile on my face, Hovo, that’s wonderful! I know that in Shushi, our men were extremely talented and cleverly climbed up Shushi’s fort while the enemy was not expecting it. That’s how we won the difficult, I say difficult war of capturing Shushi!!!! Yes, the BEST fighters!!!!!
Avery and others – please don’t be naive. Look how the “Ahmets” operate – it’s straight from the KGB/MIT textbook on how to disrupt fruitful discussions. As soon as we start getting to some important point they are allowed to post some totally unrelated, irritating comment and disappear. We waste our time responding to them and they are already on a different shift trashing a different Armenian forum.
Look at the top – one denialist comment, then “Ahmet” goes:
“By the way, have you watched Kobe’s Turkish Airlines commercial? Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaSdRARVWFg
very cool”
What does this have to do with re-population of Artsakh? Only one thing – to distract us, make somebody react, switch subject. “Ahmets” have full collections of such links and phrases at their disposal and use them all the time from one forum to another.
Finally, try to post something remotely similar on their websites and see how long you’d last there.
If we want to prepare ourselves for discussions with the general Azeri-Turk population we need to go where they write on their forums and not react to the ones who came here with a mission to hurt and divide us.
I found it very useful to go to Toastmasters International meetings and have a series of speeches on Armenian Genocide every April. Sadly, there is no single Toastmasters club in Armenia and Artsakh and plenty in Turkey. I actually found out about this movement from a Turkish classmate of mine who was well prepared for discussions and demonstrated superb public speaking skills thanks to her membership in that club when she was in Turkey.
One more thing, Although I did say above that it’s OK to take the turks’ denialist belligerent mindset into consideration and know what they’re thinking process is about; but I still maintain that it’s not necessary to spend so much time with them while we have to get into more serious business of discussing and educating ourselves amongst ourselves.
Hovo, you may be right as to re population in war zones being a bit dangerous,nay precarious.But Artsakh is big enough within PRESENT BORDERS to admit triple the `population it has now.Also read carefully please, what I wrote,Both Armenian/Artsakh is the focal point of my thesis .
And by the by,what do you think the French Armenians are upto for,to repopulate Nice-Cote DÁzure?
They are beginning to move towards a WESTERN Armenia CLAIM.So are the thick of the Armens in B-Aires and/ or Boston,Marseilles. To make things clearer,even parts right after the Security zones are being repopulated, albeit at a very slow pace, a dozen families here there.Main objective should be RA/Artsakh proper.That was the core of the article by Mensoian.Now if the AZ.com(I watch their page very seldom,as I know they are repeating like parrots what great Turkey wants them to. you can rest assured that if this was not the case, azeris would have stopped that bla bla as you say.They are supported by Genocide state,in order to divert our MAIN THRUST TO GENOCIDE RECOGNITION AND RESTITUTION,REPARATIONS FOR BLOOD MONEY AND …
Mr Mensoian,
You can not even compare NKR with Israel, NKR boarders are well sealed, and the contact lines (or boarders) are well defined…there is no issue of settlement, the issue is to preserve what we have with the help of armed forces. I bet you that you have never been in NKR, and you do not know the geography well. The surrounding regions are flat which can allow enemy to bomb the entire region with artillery shells, rackets and grads which will kill the entire population and then it can make the soldiers job difficult to perform. Yes, we have populated the entire region with IEDs (improvised exposive device) in order to welcome azeris with blasts…
Mr. Evans,
With all due respect, I am sorry to inform you that the train has already gone. The train left 20 years ago, when Aliev refused to recognize NKR in exchange to get some districts back. Armenia has already given up everything, there is nothing left to give up. In addition, Azeri and Turkish blockade is costing us billions of dollars annually.
I do think that Armenians must find a way to live together with the now-Azerian refugees who should return to their villages in Karabakh and surrounding districts who are currently under control of NKR Army. Why you dont do this? There are 20 years past and i think its time to live in the 21th century, also in the South Caucasus.
Stepan, I agree with your last post, in theory. Dialogue with Turks can teach us a lot and we do need to stay in ‘condition’. But the contributions from the committee that tries to pass itself off as individuals named ‘Murat’, ‘Ahmet’, Robert’, etc…, is not engaging in sincere dialogue, but in disseminating mind-bending propaganda. I could be wrong, but a careful reading of their posts reveals drastic variations in grammar, syntax, vocabulary and command of the language; clearly different posers are posting under the same name.
I’m not saying not to ever respond to their posts—-just be aware that you are not talking to real people with straight-forward agendas. As others have indicated, their goal is to derail the Armenian Cause.
I tend to agree with Boyajian. ‘Murats’, ‘Ahmets’, Roberts’, etc, most probably represent a syndicate whose purposes are mind-tilting and derailing the Cause. This simply needs to be kept in mind when responding to their comments.
I LIKE THE SUGAR COATED ADVICE OF A N D Y .Very much like the real Mccoy(great Turkey-style)..come live again with us… u n d e r o u r f l a g and our wonderfull democratic Govt.
Andy polease go grind your oxydate axe elsewhere.In fact, I have a similar suggestion to you.Why don´t you and your people go back to UYGHUR-LAND,where foreignm minsitre of great Turkey stated hat ¨this is where we come from¨ it is tot he __West of C H I N A ….
Armenians after Sumgait and Baki canmnot dream -even-of going back to live with turco-azeris.Ask Euro-Ams ,Australians to go live with you…
Hovo:
Not agreeing or disagreeing with Mr. Mensoian, but here is his background (at the end of the article)
—-
Michael Mensoian, J.D./Ph.D, is professor emeritus in Middle East and political geography at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, and a retired major in the U.S. army. He writes regularly for the Armenian Weekly.
—
I am guessing, being a Major in the US Army, he’d have a pretty accurate assessment of Artsakh topography. The rank of Major is way up there.
Also, IEDs are generally used by resistance forces who fashion IEDs from whatever they can get their hands on. I am pretty sure Artsakh’s Regular Army has the latest in Anti-Tank and Anti-Personnel mines.
Boyajian:
Keen insight. I had noticed that about ‘Robert’; detected at least 2, possibly 3 styles. Had not noticed it with ‘Murat’ or ‘Ahmet’.
After reading some of the latest posts, there appears to be an epidemic of mass paranoia amongst some of you (After all, it’s not easy being a paid agent and constantly writing as elloquently as we do)! Relax! :)
Say I can be in the resettlement project – creation of village clusters, infrastructure and more.
Whose door should I knock? Whom should I speak to first?
To Hovo ,Avery et al,
Firstly up above I was the first to confirm what Mr. Mensoian wrote is really worthy of praise.I mean that of his reccomending/suggesting re-population of Artsakh,I take it Armenia as well. Hovo´s pointing out that the Security zone is there to be taken into consideration ,correct.but of course people do not go and settle down inA SECURITY ZONE,anywhere in the world.I did not wish to hurt him in this respect. It is well understood-And I believe Mr. Mensoian knows that full well and he meant other than the security areas,like I also mentioned IN THE INTERIOR OF ARTSAKH.
Enough of that.Now then in the USArmenian weekly magazine of Feb 6 ,2011,there is a full length article that deals with a war-God forbid- that may ensue ,i.e.,Azerbaijan vx. Artsakh/Armenia,in which the correspondent,apparently a war-correspondent? or to that effect, knows what he is writing about and giving exact or near exact account of the positions of each,plus hardware,aircraft,artillary and Missiles,nothing like previous ones employed.And that in case of war breaking out ,it would certainly wreak havoc on both sides. The writer also points out that neither RF nor Turkey and company would go for that. Nonetheless, you never know.Since Aliev son has the authority and he may just try to show that and unleash an unwanted war thereat.
Pity that the world has not as yet GOTTEN RIF OF SUCH REPLICA HITLERS,PINOCHETS,ETC., EXCEPT JUST THIS LAST ONE IN EGYPT
actually, ‘Rob’, playing these games with you Turks is quite relaxing.
We know quite well what you guys are up to, but pretend we don’t know, so that you can pretend you are who you are not, and we respond to you pretending we believe you are who you are not, so that you can pretend to believe that we believe you are who you are not.
See how much fun that is ?
Mr. Palandjian:
On the Rendahl thread, you mentioned that you are approaching 80. Those of us who are a little or lot younger than you, should be honored that you have the time and energy to impart you wisdom to us: I can’t speak for others, but I have learned a tremendous amount from your posts – that more often than not – ‘see’ far, far in the distance. Even personal tragedy has not diminished your deep love for and desire to help your people: you are an inspiration to us all.
I wish you another 40 years of healthy life and sharp mind.
Hi Shantagizoum, By the way I like your name that starts with Shant! I am glad you answered Andy dandy above and very appropriately too. In Baku, the pictures of a beautiful young Armenian woman in her apartment with both her breasts taken out and a huge hollow where her breasts was once, is still in my mind that I couldn’t cancel it for weeks and months after I saw the horrible pictures. Her young husband or brother a few feet away also killed in cold blood was in the same room in their apartment. My poor Armenian compatriots massacred in that awful manner. Also the awful stories and of more horrific pictures of Armenians who were atrociously killed by the Azeri pogroms and mobs were unbelievable. Who can live with those Azeris pogrom killers anymore? Unless one doesn’t value one’s life and wants to be killed with a great deal of pain and misery. Who can trust to live with those Azerbaboons? One must be suicidal to want to live with them as neighbours.
I agree 100% with the resettlement program suggested by Menosian. The State of Israel became a democratic and vibrant country because of the continuous resettlement of Jewish people from all over the world. As opposed to Armenia, which has lost over 1,000,000 of its citizens due to economic failures of its government should serve us as a caveat.
So who’s door should we knock to learn more about resettlement plans? skills are available, knowledge, learned youths, ARmenian aspirations and novelty, but is there a political decision to proceed with such ambitious plans?
To Avery,
Thank you dear friend,for even the young are my friends,like my grandson was all ,son_his father abandoned him and his sister,I acted like DAD and Granpa,also as a friend…anyhow
I appreciate your kind words,really I don´t deserve that much,but I accept them meekly.Now this part is for all,especially to Harout up above.
WHAT DOOR TO KNOCK ON? knock on all and every Armenian door,firstly though through some mechanism, in order to catch on.If every Hayorti(Armenian son) here tells to many of his friends that the only WAY we can achieve REPATRIATION is through TEAMWORK.FIRST BY JOINING ¨Professional Colleagues Associations´¨ 5 on the scen we lack the remaining 10. We ahve Health /Medic.2, the Engineers & Sci,The BAR, the sportive and the Jewellers. Need rest 10, The 6th.Travel/transport,7,Banking & finance, 8.Construction field,9, Communication IT,10, Agricultural,11.Education& cultural(amalgamation of all)12.Industreis & Mines,13,Food & catering(includes hotelry)14.Press& Advertising,15.Environmental & forestry,and probably one more.All of our `people working in any of these should FLORM INTO COLLEAGUES ASSOCIATIONS.Their main objective is two:-GROUPING INTO OUR HUGDE COLLECTIVITIES AND MINGLING MERGING WITH WITH EA OTHER BECOMING SOCIALLY FORME D AND ELECTING FROMN EA pROF. A · PERSON ELITE, i.e, elected Delegates to Central Body of any Armenian densse township,whether s.Francisoc with suburbi, L.A. Beirut or Marseille etc., These 3 persons are, besides the usual Board of any entity, These are mY NOVELTY, each of thme elected for their real worth that having one of following 3 MERITS.(4th doesn´t exist) .A Physician ,(an example) elected, for his her most advanced position in Prof, second one for having culturally, nat´l,Int´l most advanced and with networking capacity, 3rd for having most advanced economically ,NMOTE ONE COMPLIMENTS THE OTHER TWO.then ask the political partyu repls to join in and one each from our three spiritual denomiantion THUS FORMING THE CENTRAL BODY OF EACH TOWNSHIP.NOTE:-people elected by real PARTICIPATION AND REPRESENTATION. Their aim besides trying hard to also send in from ea prof ONLHY one to CENTRAL COUNCIL OF A GIVEN aRMENIAN COMMUNITY cOUNTRY CAPITAL CITY, AS THE CENTRAL COUNCIL. All thse, striving hard to create the NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND. which over the years I have found out can only be had going frist through the FORMATION OF THE NUCLEUS BY OUR 5/6 magnagtes , each INVESTING AS WORKING CAPITAL A FEW HUNDRED MILLION dollars, then the millionaires ,then all the wasy down to thousand dollar and a hundred dollar investments.Fund to be governed by the NUCLEUs´s mon etary experts, INVESTING INTO SECURE gOV. bONDS, EARNING SOME 5%,OF WHICH 3% TO BE GIVEN TO INVESTORS PER ANNIUM, REST RE INVESTED SO THE FUND GROWS, Ç
fIRST OPERATION WILL BE TO fund the REPATRIATION, beginning from NEAR ABROAD THAT IS FROM RF, to Artsakh and Armenia . the loan s to small and medium size enterprisees and farmers on 2% inteerst basis for 10/15 years period, agaisnt mortgages.
FOR WITHOUT A SERIOUS NATIONAL INVESTMENT FUND WE CANNOT ACHIEVE ANYTHING. PLEASE UNDERSTGAND THIS FUND WILL NOT CROSS WITH ALL ARMENIA FUND OR ANY OTHER.THIS IS AN ,OR WILL BE I N V E S T M E N T ONE EARNING INTEERST FOR THE INVESTORS TOO.
Pleae excuse for bad typing and many errors
Kind rgds
g.p
Avery,
Don’t quit your day job! ;)
Mr. Gaytzag Palandjian,
Sir, with all due respect, someone of your age and life’s experiences must realize better than most others, that there is more to the whole story than what you mention! You speak of how to get reparations, etc. But nowhere in your post did I read anything about compensation to the victims of ARF dashnak Armenian actions (before, during and after WWI; before and during WWII; the entire decades of the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1990’s; and present day actions). You know exactly what I’m talking about. How do you propose that these situations be handled? What sort of reparations should the surviving families receive? You see Sir, things are not as easy as one may initially perceive them to be. One must remove the blinders and see the entire picture for what it truly is before true progress can become a reality! Instead of DEMANDING reparations, you should set an example for the younger people by saying that they should DEMAND that all sides be examined, so that a path for peace and harmony amongst your neighbors may once again be established! Thank you.
With kind regards,
Robert
Robert:
Thanks for the suggestion, but you are a little late: actually I am keeping my day job. This is my day job
Both my day job, and evening job, and weekend job is monitoring and countering Turkish propaganda, misinformation and disinformation being promulgated by you and your colleagues.
I rather enjoy the exercise: I’d die of boredom if it weren’t for you guys.
Robert,
Why do you wish to twist things around for the umptieth time. The Armenians(Ermenis) were considered as rayas,pretty much like second class non-entities,albeit in Constantinople(the showcase area,as even now) treated quassi like slaves.Not allowed to carry even paper cutting knives,let alone arms.Indeed after the 1890´s those few Armenians who had been educated in Tbilisi and further up North,Northwest to moscow and other Euro countries returned home to find their brethren and sisters being considered and treated as above. thence they began to think of (like now in the Arab world)shaking off the ottoman turkish Yolk/Yataghan and with very small quantities of arms smuggled into Western Armenia, put up some resistance to turkish abuses.Only in a few instances like _Zeytoon and Van etc., they were able to counter attack the oppressor turkish regular and Chjeteh froces,causing death amongst these.indeed,FIGHT FOR FREEDOM IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO OPPRESSED PEOPLE.Especially one that has in the past done its best in Constantinople and other cities to help fellow citizens to progress in many fields,plus in rural areas FARM for the Ottoman population.Alas the Genderms and Cheteh , were not satisfied with taxes levied on them and began to plunder, rob,rape the women and strip the poor faarmers of little they had left.then upon ablovde resistance attempts, turks began to show their ¨FAMOUS KHERS,WRATH…BEGINNING TO KILL UNNECESSARILY THE SUBJECT ARMENIANS,ASSYRIANS AND SOME GREEKS TOO.
Now you wish us to become friendly? indeed,why not,but first let us settle the long overdue accounts. Damages for a thousand Monasteries/churches destroyed, houses confiscated, goods and riches stolen from proprietor Armenians,then putting them on the DEATH March …evicting them on the pretext that there was war on with Russia and Armenians had joined up with them against KIND ottoman turkish bosses.Totally untrue!
Armenians wished to go along but they also demanded to be treated equally.And why not? were the turks or are the turks better human beings than the Armenians?
You see, only yesterday on Al Jazeera your FM being interviewed by British Girl,when asked-after FM of great turkey had repeated ,believe me more than two dozen times that Turkey is a Democracy(read, THIS UNDEMOCRACY) replied when asked¨How about the kurdish and Armenian issues?
he overlooked the as yet RAYA kurds-not a word as to them- then very softly said, ¨We are trying to solve it with the Armenians¨¨ in his …
As we all know Turkey deneged on the protocols that were to be signed without any preconditions on either side..whereas now Turkey is conditioning it to the resolution of conflict between Artsakh/Armenia and Azerbaijan.There, you have it.Always the Bully!!!
Gaytzag jan,
I agree on all what you said, more or less, certainly there are some few points of diagreements. But if someone is interesting in settling in Artsakh, I cannot tell him like what you just told me, “knock on all and every Armenian door”. Having knocked on the door of the representative of NKR, as long as you don’t carry a bag full of money in it nobody is interested in receiving you. The political elite is more interested in “investors” rather than “settlers”. Well of course they are, since within their hands is Land, almost 12000 sq.km and no population. They are up for selling what is available, green forest, rocks, minerals and whatever that can be exchanged for cash.
Mr. Mensoian is calling for an urgent resettlement program, which I fully support, otherwise, all of the Ambitions of young Armenians is gone in vain.
Not all diasporans are rich, actually, most of us are living financially at the edge of survival.
I am in Germany, with 10000 Euros in my pocket, living a good life more or less, health and social insurance, very good living standards. Say I am a true patriot and willing to go to Artsakh and milk goats for a living as well as do some normal work, teaching, tech work etc…There SHOULD be a central organisation where I could pick up some documents, recommendations, support etc. Moreover, the governement of Artsakh should promptly give an arable piece of land with an acceptable (to be renovated) piece of shelter in it.
That is my question, where/who is the place to collect that information? I am considering very seriously to settle there due the positive stories I heard about the inhabitants of Artsakh and heroic efforts of the freedom fighters to liberate those lands. To leave it empty and barren is not an acceptable continuation of our forefathers heroism.
And regarding the “Professional Colleagues Associations”, do you have the link or contact info of this organisation?
Dear/Sireli Harout,
First ,responding to your last query.Yes, there are in Paris,L.A. and Yerevan offices of the following 5 ¨Professional Colleagues Associations¨:- The Engineers& Sciences, The Health/Medical, The BAR(Law) Sportive and Jewellers. From what you write you can most like be classified as to fit into the Enbgineers& Sciences Assoc. Get in touch and cooperate.But let me wardn you they are not aware of the proposed(what we are discussing here) project that of REPATRIATION,RESETTLEMENT.You have to mention that ,which you wrote above, i.e. you being willing to go settle down and work on Haireni Lands. You see gaytzag´´s PROJECTIONS ON A NEW STATUTE FOR THE ARMENIAN DIASPORA , is to take shape-hopefully soon,when our brethren here in diaspora come together and c o operate.otherwise it will stay on paper.Since one is independently of others doing so in Moscow(with all due respect to him/them) the Armenian congress¨world´congress ,headed by ARA Abrahamian,again av ery good person and he would according my schem automatically again be nominagted to head that 5th Branch of the supreme council that I project, the one that is to deal with social Services and Reñpatraition(near abroad RF),then in France there is another haybachdban. again another in L.A. with Harut Sassounian and Vartkes yeghiayan ,,you see these people last one held Conf. in L.A. in Nov.2010 ,the other two like i just mentioned seperately EVERY ONE ON THEIR OWN.IT IS NOT WHAT YOUY IMAGIEN THAT ONLY IN RA/aRTSKHA THE oligark s are THE MAIN OPERATORS…hERE IN DIASPORA WE HAVE THE SAME BUT UNDER DIFFERENT NAME. A GOOD WRITER ara bALIOZIAN CALLED THEM THE BBB ´s ,i.e. Bishops, benifactors and bosses..latter meaning the politico…all these people are very conveniently tucked into my project,being elected THIS TIME OVER THRFOUGH THEIR WORTH IF THEY HAVE ONE OF 3 MERTIS IN THEIR PROFESSION,WHILE MAINTAINING THER DUAL MEMBERSHIP,I.E. THE POLITCO THE SPIRITUAL AND THE BENEFACGTORS. fOR INSTANCE mR. vAHE kARAPETIAN OF l,a,. AN INDUSTRIALIST WILL INDEED BE ELECTED AUTOMATICALLY BECAUSE HE HAS ACHIEVED SUCCESS BOTH AS AND ENGINEER AND ALSO HAS SOME ABILITIES FOR NETWORKING.
En fin, UNLESS WE JOIN UP AND REGROUP AS TO CLASSIFICATION OF WORK/profession we cannot harmoniously forge ahead. This is MY CONCLUSION,
KIND RGDS,
g.p
As to
Sirelin Baron Palandjian,
Thank you for the information you provided, I will try to get more involved with my brethren in different associations and learn about possibilities thereafter.
I honor your logistical and strategic perspectives, and I hope your (and mutually our) aspirations may bear abundant fruits, for as long as Artsakh is free and liberated, the flowers of our Armenian efforts have already bloomed.
Let me brief some of my views and aspirations.
Located in a remote mountainous area, Artsakh has the potential to be a beacon of Light for the entire world to gaze at and praise.
A warrior like population, every member of such a nation is responsible for the security of his/her people’s Freedom.
A cultural inheritance of millleniums during which the birth of the human Mind took place, science, arts, natural and divine knowledge were imparted; the last chapters of which were written by the national adoption of the doctrine of Christ, the Human Savior and the sacrifice of an unforgettable number of Our Grandparents under the swords of Turkic ‘soldiers’.
Every Armenian first has to learn how to live on this mother planet Earth with dignity and respect. That means, to know what one needs for his/her daily survival and well being at a minimum ecological impact. It would be necessary to learn how to nurture one’s own food sources. Therefore, a permaculture plan should be developed in form of a booklet, seeds, tools, water resources, local agrarian contacts along with hints and guides as to what crops are in actual demand by the market. This form of business can be operated by an Artsakhian, providing new settlers with a package at a certain reasonable price.
If Armenians are willing to Re-patriate Artsakh, we will have to get used and relearn working with our hands. For a modern computer programmer, sales man or graphic designer, to imagine arriving to Artsakh and working atIBM or Ernst and Young is a bit unrealistic. For modern white collar jobs to be available you need stable political and security guarantees, which so far seem not to exist.
So one has to learn how to provide his own food, and also possibly think of working in the food production to provide his financial needs. In addition one can still fulfill his technical and cultural aspirations by the availability of internet providers. The KEY to success is “ECO-Tourism”.
One can easily provide lodging for many Armenian visitors or European/Western tourists who take the pain of arriving to Artsakh to view some of its majesty and beauty. Nature, eco-friendly tours and lodging is a wonderful way to present Artsakh to the world and not only by popping five star hotels where only Oligarchs and extreme materialists keep populating which have no interest in the actual value of Artsakh but think only of the material gains that may be generated from the sacred land, bringing as well corruption, ecologic damage and degradation which only is destructive to our youths.
But this needs a brave political decision by the current leaders of Artsakh and implement programs for re-settlement and must provide a specific area of arable land sufficient for growing daily need and surplus including a readily available shelter to start with for new settlers. The initial economic input of new settlers will contribute to local economic growth, transportaion, construction workers, furniture, agricultural intercourse and cultural enrichment. From there on they may provide lodging and manage tours for tourists. This provides a satisfying and noble way of life for Armenians to find themselves in.
The Armenian inside us must awaken. It reminds us we are children of AR, the sons and daughter of Hay,of Mesrop Mashtots, the followers of the One True Christ Lord Incarnate to whose feet the entire world fell into its knees, was no other than the Lord of Sacrifice.
Therefore remembering who we are, we do things differently than what the modern day pop culture victim does.
HARout
Dear/Sireli Harout,
I admire your description of our beloved ARTSAKH.I was there last summer,drove over with an ex-azadamartik(sorry can´t name him here).I stayued at the small shushi hotel in Shushi.I know there is the Yerevan in Stepanaket and that it is very luxurious for the people you name etc-., that does not interest me.You see ,just like I respect and tolerate all ideologies,SO DO i HAVE TO INCLUDE THIS SECTOR that is the by product of WILD FREE MARKET ECONOMY, that iunfortunately befell both RA/Artsakh and rest 14 ex soviet republics.Wish they had taken after the swedish/Norwegian Finnish Euro socialism..but by gonnes are bygones…We are in the CURRENT now.
Getting backl to what you set forth for Eco Tourism. i have nothing against that but that enlaps a very small % compared to the One that American lady from innmer U.s. State was suggesting,THAT OF AGRI or agro-Tourism,to which I added my piece suggesting that -like what I had witnessed when a student in good old England,London,some students would go in the summer for short stints of 15 days or so as FARM HANDS,work there with local famers and board with them, in fresh air etc.,
This is an option on my next trip I shall really try hard.Fact is i am in touch witrh one of the Travel aGencies in Yerevan ,two Spiritual tourism suggesting thereat and possibly X.So much for that.But main thing is , what I have advocated for over 32 yrs and that involves the hUGE COLLECTIVITIES OF THE ARMENIAN DIASPORAS PROFESSIONAL COLLEAGUES ASSOCIATIONS.OTHERWISE HERE AND THERE -LIKE ABOVE- IS JUST one thousandth of a drop oin mthe ocean….
YOU WRITE WE MUST MAKE A REAL EFFORT. THIS CAN BE HAD -DONE IN TEAM W O R K ,NOT INDEPENDENTLY.By the By I was in Artsakh year 2002 too.Alot has been done,not enough though.Also I was in Yerevan year 1992,when at the offices -small then- of Artsakh House 2 Surhandags burst in to let Vice prres. and co. know that some 40,000 thousand Shahumian residents were b eing led into RA,, driven out by the OMON agans. Sorry time is of the element that I appreciate most at my age. Write me ,if you so wish at gayzagpal@aol.com .Also i am being published in Armenian language , beginning jan 14 in the Armenian language Hairenik and USArmenian Life magazine ,of L.A. I have two books published in RA, being sold at the Noyan tapan.I wsas elected to first Armenian Congress temporary executive board by some 380 participants ,28 of whom presented ¨´ppaers¨and 7 of us got elected.I should not have said tha,but then a friend of mine scolded me saying if you do not say what you have for the AZG-Patria then how can we GRAHEL/guess.I also was in Leninakan with some 6 tons of Food begged from odar food large companies and Airlifted FREE of charge thrpough Paris,then I resided in Europe.Also contributed on monthly basis for 16 months , each month 500 dollars tothrough AGBU.
My web sight Armenidad-Worldwide.org is in re construction
best
G.P:
Harout,
This is not true what you said – “Having knocked on the door of the representative of NKR, as long as you don’t carry a bag full of money in it nobody is interested in receiving you.”
I’m in no way associated with them, but from my experience your statement is the complete opposite of the truth.
By the way, today the Ambassador of Artsakh delivered a lecture titled “The history of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict, the conflict as we know it today, Negotiations, including the positions of both sides, Artsakh after proclaiming independence in 1991, and Prospects for positive peace” at the George Mason University. The Turks again organized a show with walkout etc. Armenians were greatly outnumbered…
This was a great opportunity to talk to them if you were in town and no “bag full of money” was needed, just a little bit of support.
You compared NKR to Israel? What a lack of understanding you have. NKR was LIBERATED. Israel is not “liberating” anything, they are occupiers, just as Azeris were until we liberated our territories. Given your “background”, your lack of understanding of this issue and international law in general is appaling.
WATCH THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MktYI_TSPfg
Sireli baron Palandjian,
Thank you for your reply. It is absolutely fine that you mention your commitments and service for Artsakh, as you said, how could one guess? I hope my generation can achieve a portion of what yours have achieved, we will not forget our heoric azadamartiknere. This is our only remaining mother land and deserves utmost sacrifice to preserve it. Sooner or later sireli Gaydzag, many diasporans Armenians will return to their mother country. After the 2008 crisis, we saw how the economies of developed “rich” nations have almost collapsed and has not since then fully recovered. It is not unlikely that another financial crash occurs in the future at much larger scale.
The status of Artsakh, being internationally unrecognized and unintegrated into the very delicate global economy will be of great advantage to its future prosperity (in case of a global economic downfall, Asdvadz chene, afterall, we are living in those nations).
By Professional associations, I assume you do mean http://www.apsla.org ?? I completely agree on the need to identify and categorize Armenian skills and talents. But with eco-tourism and agricultural self-sufficiency, I was proposing a feasible approach for independat self-intiated effort, unrelated to team work setup. Of course it would be great if such efforts are co-ordinated from an organisational point of view. But since you say TIME is an element of extreme value, then whoseover wills to go settle in Artsakh at the earliest occasion, should be able to do so, and to facilitate such settlement decisions from diasporic Armenians is an issue of high priority.
For a young Armenian to decide to pack and live in Artsakh, this means that one must decide at the crossroads of his current job/company, future career plans, residential status, familial aspirations (marriage, kids), care for one’s own elders … so forth and so on. So the burden is very heavy and one has to expect a minimal form of support, even if that comes at a monetary cost, it’s alright. Comparing to Israel, settlement programs have been at the core of their govermental policy for 40 years now and we all know what kind of support is offered there for jewish settlers. Even if one were to immigrate to Canada, where already a developed infrastructure is in place, a new immigrant gets fed by documents, assistance, arrival services even prior to their arrival. So how much more should be done for someone willing to settle in a country with much less of an infrastructure. So we shall not be surprised of the shrinking 150k population presently in Artsakh. To expect action from NKR governement is a bit too optimistic, therefore, such efforts and coordination should be done on our own behalf.
I will stay in touch with via your private email in the coming few days. Maybe we can meet soon in Artsakh Asdvadz ouzene.
Wishing everyone a good weekend
regards,
harout
@voskanapat
Since I am not a US resident, then I guess I was not talking about the rep. to the US. Anyway, my experience was contrary to yours, and I hope was an exception. It only makes me happier when someone tells of a good experience with fellow Armenians. Unfortunately I was not the at GMUniversity, however I understand how it would feel if Truth was shadowed and outnumbered by a carnival of deniers. We know that the times we live in does not pay to shake an Armenian hand, but to shake an azeri or turk has an immediate revenue in cash. So we have to get use to such attitudes. And what truly matters, what we do on the ground, transform ground realities to Armenian interests, our indiputable right to out motherland.
Dear/Sireli Harout,
I shall look into that web site.But no. it has nothing to do with the 5 ¨Professionbal cillegues Associations¨¨that loosely are there ON THE ARMENIAN SCENE.In other words they act independently.However, they are good ADAGHDZ, meaning BASE sort of.-Some explanations are due here by me.You see, I was one of the very few, a dozen or so,besides participating at the First Armenian congress,Paris 1979, to also attend from almost beginnign and form part of ´GROUPEMENT PROFESSIONELE ARMENMIEN¨in the 1980’S.lATER RENAMED gROUPMENT Inter-Professionel Armenien.After our 3rd Congress in Paris commemorating the 60th Anniveersary of the SESVRES TREATY,at same name place,our Congress did not convene again Reason? at that point of time FRICTION AMONGST ARMENIAN CURRENTS-SHALL WE SAY- ESPECIALLY VERY high level, what with the cold war on ,etc., ALSO I MUST TELL THE TRUTH WE DID NOT HAVE A CONCRETE PLAN AS TO HOW TO BRING IT TO PASS, i.e. like even now the Armenians are doing .All political parties , offshoots, this that org. are advocating UNITY(silly word),I have explained it before, as to us.We showed that we were and I am sure we are even now if faced with important National issues. We need not MIUTYUN,Unity but MIAPANUTYUN…cooperation like the French,See, they have extreme left extreme right ,but become FIST when int´l issues at stake.Please excuse if I write telegraphically.i am not here to show off the English idiom.The Brits can do that much better.it is just that we have to use it ,it became the universal one, even from Moscow….etc-,
Thence, after 3rd Congress, I began tpo deveop re develop the Scheme the idea that we needed something else..so I wrote in Asbarez, a Dashnag weekly through a friend whose friend was as such. Title was.-FOUR PRECONDITIONS FOR THE ARMENIAN DIASPORA, IN 1978 /9 i HAVE THE FEW DATES,i HAD SOMEHOW FOUND OUT THAT WE lacked two other elements. we had only two, the POLITICAL PARTIES AND THE SPKIRITUAL LEADERSHIP OR org. WE LACKED THE FOLLOWING:-
formacion social-spanish,. Social Formation and ECONOMIC POWER. SO I BEGAN TO THINK..HOW TO GET ORU PEOPLE TOGETHER ON a platform or HARTUTYUN that had nothing to do with above 2 ,but admitted that those indeedCARRY ON.Contrary to others I praised what those 2 had done and are actually doing BUT NOT ENOUGH.
What is more each INDEPENDENT OF THE OTHER(S) THAT IS THEIR OFFSHOOTS TOO.It is then that I wrote that piece. We needed to get together in same type work -Group -of which i had some experience from paris.But there it was a mix up of all trsades prof. So I though to do it systematically.% have formed since 32 yrs ago -mentioned in m y previous post. Need 10 more of near all important professions.There these good armenians will get to klnow ea other mix mingle, learn from ea other and ABOVE ALL CO OPERATE.In the interim we have 2 bad trasita that thus we shall overcome ,1. Being an over jealous people and nON COOPERATIVE.
After that inded these HUGE Collectivites all over Globe would strive to bring about OUR ECONOMIC MIGHT…THE NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND. IN MY PREVIOUS WRITS ,ALSO IN MY TWO BOOKS i USE TO WRITE AND ADVOCATGE FOR ARMENIAN NATIONAL FUND, BUT CHANGED IT,AFTER THE A;LL AARMENIA FUND WAS ESTABLISHED ,NOT TO CROSS IT AND THOUGHT ,LIKE MANY A FRIEND TOLD ME WE ARE TIRED OF GIVING ADN GIVING XTO THIS THAT FUNDLINGS…THEN GAYTZAG THOUGHT OF A ..\
“NATIONAL INVESTMENT TRUST FUND”,WE SHOULD INVEST IN OUR o w n FUND .wROTE ABOUT THIS IN “”””PROJECTIONS ON A NEW STATUTE FOR THE ARMENIAN DIASPORA”””also my “pAPER”somehow was onm th official page,WEB SITE FO THE fOREIGN mINSITRY OF aR,MENIA /ALONG WITH SIX OTHERS ,I.E. Armeniadiaspora.com. yOU CAN CHEK ONM THAT.IT STAYED THERE FOR 5.5 YRS….
i HAD THEN UNDERSTOOD THAT AFTER MY 30&35 TALKS ON horizon OF l.a. AND ANOTHER DEAR COMPATRIOT THAT OF mR. vAHE KARAPETIAN IT WASS TO BE REALL WE3LL ORGANIZZED NOT JSUT ASK/LIKE HE DID ,MANY A TIME OFER THAT bABIK MANMIKS ONE DOLLAR SCONYRIBIUTIONS WOULD BUILD UP TO..WHAT EVER.
sO IN MY ABOVE paper on fm of ra i pleaded that we approach our 5 OR 6 MAGNATES TO FORM THE nucleus by investing , as working capityal each some 2or300 $.then the miiiolionaires down to thousand dolalrs investors and even a 100$ investors A T G E V A , sWITZERLAND. TAX FREE and EASY TO MOVE AROUND TO BUY CHOCOLATES AND OR AMMO FROM cHINA, AS AN EXAMPLE, NOT RISTRICTED AREA…HLOPE PEOPLE UNDERSTNAS WHY ch cONFEDERACION hELVETICA AND THEIR/mAGNAATES ATTORNEYS WOULD KNOW HOW TO ELABORATE SO THAT IT WOULD BE OUR LARGES NON GOVT. FUND AND INTERRESTS DERIVED FROM RE INVESTMENT IN SECURE OTHER GOV. FUNDS PAY SOME 2 TO 3% TO INVESTORS ,REST TO BE ADDED TO capital.tO AID
fIRSTLY repatriation……………………………….,THEN TO LOEAN MONIES TO SMALL AND INTERMEDIATE ENTERPRISES,FARMERS IN Ra&aRTSKAH ON VERY LOW INTEREST BAIS FOR 1`0 OR 15 YRS periods.
TODAY THE NEWS HAS IT ON PANARMENIAN THAT EU HAS DECIDED TO GIVE 100 MILLION EUROS , 65 million as LOAN 35 GRANT/*Bakhshish( GIFT.Aganje KHOSI …anonts wor peranneren chur gerta hima….
You see these kind of loans grants are everywhere and make the rich further richer filthy rich olis ,whereas hard earned National investment trust fund is ours and the BOARD are responsible to share holders. in that I have hopes.Later some more
Harout, otherwise i do agree to meet with youy sometime in Summer ,letv’s say in Yerevan hea d to NK,where i have other plans..INCIVIDUAL IF UNTILL THEN THE L.A. ,PARIS AND MOSCOW ARMENIAN MOVEMENTS DO NOT COME TO JPOIN UP AND BECOME WHAT THIS CRAZY GAIYDzAG ADVOCATES.. mine is there to take it or leave it
ADDENDUM to Harut,
I ventured into the Armenian professional society of L.A. A very commendable society and old. You see in ALL OF MY POSTS RE RE ORGANIZATION OF THE ARMENIAN DIASPORAS and articles PUBLISHED IN ARMENIAN LANGUAGE ENGLISH LANGUAGE newspapers,I MAKE CXERTAIN TO PRAISE THESE AND WISH THEM MORE SUCCESS.
No, this is not what my All Armenian professional Colleagues Associations is.These are Centrifugal INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER,albeit a few like thjose , such as Hamazgayin, Homentement offshoots of the political parties etc., I PRAISE THEM AGAIN AND WISH THEM MUCH MORE SUCCESS.
My suggested PCA´s Prof. colleagues Associations touches upon some 15/16 fields of Professions.Five on the scene.
Interconnection of these Through their ELITE, that measn in ea Armenian dense township where these will have their branches,will elect their Boards like those on the scene and THE ONE YOU MENTIONED..B U T …WITH ONE DIFFERENCE,That these besisdes usual Boards, will ELECT A 3 PERSON DELEGATION TO THE iNTER PROFESSIONAL cOLLEAGUES ASSOC.,eaCH ENDOWED WITH ONE OF three MERITS THAT SUCH A pROFESSIONAL cAN FURTHER DEVELOP AND MORE than the others, one for his her being professionaly most advanced, oNE FOR HAVING CULTURALLY, nAT´L ,iNT´L MORE ADVANCED AND WITH NETWORKING CAPACITY AND tHIRD HAVING ECONOMICALLY MOST ADVANCED. N O T E : oNE COMPLIMENTS THE OTHER TWO.tHERE IS NO 4TH mERIT THT CAN BE DEVELOPED IN ONE´S PROFESSION AS mERIT.
THGE iNTERPROFESSIONAL , WILL THEN CORDIAL.LY INVITE THE TRADITIONAL aRMENIAN POLITICAL PARTIES TO SEND IN EACH 3 PERSON DELEGATES TO THE iNTERPROFESSIONAL , AND ALSO REQUEST THAT OUR 3 DENOMINATION Spiritual Denominations each send in to join with that BODY og a given township, THUS FORMING THE LONG AWAITTED cENTRAL bODY.
fROM THESE cENTRAL bODIES OF pROVINCIAL TOWNS , THEN THE iNTERPROFESSIONALS WILL DELEGATE FROM EACH pca´ one delegate(on rotative basis) and the political parties each ONE delegate, plus the Spiritual denominations ONE, TO THE CENTRAL COUNCIL OF A GIVEN ARMENIAN COMMUNITY COUNTRY.
If Harut Sassounian´s proposal to send in from each 20,000 ordinary people, i.e. over 18 yrs old to elders, whether from Far east or Alaska and the like plus of courese dense populated cities ,that is also another venue.
these can represent the ones that are elected AS PREVIOUSLY IN ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD.THAT IS PEOPLE WHO C A M P A I G N BY SPENDING MONIES AND OR BEING APPOINTED BY POLITICAL PARTIES AS THEIR CANDIDATES.mY SUGGESTED ONE IS INDEPENDENT OF THESE ,IF THEY INSIST THAT TO BE ADOPTED AND WILL BE IN PARALLEL WITH EACH OTHER.
pROFESSIONALS , I.E. THE ELITE ,OF OUR POEPLE ,PLUS THE BABIK MAMIKS, THE YOUTH AND/OR FARMERTS WORKERS ETC., FROM THE AREAS THAT THEY LIVE IN.i HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THESE.
bUT THOSE WHO WISH TO CLOSELY FOLLOW WHAT i AM DRIVING AT WILL BY AND BY NOTE THAT I AM AIMING AT OUR IMPORTANT, ELEMENTS OF THE PEOPLE,
P L U S THEIR ECONOMICAL P O W E R .
FOR THE LATTER RESIDES IN THSSE PEOPLE ,RATHER THAN THE AFOREMENTIOEND MEN WOMEN ON THE STREET, IN VILLAGES SMALL TOWNS ETC.,
hAMA hAIGAGANI sIRO,
g.p:
PLEASE EXCUSE ME FOR MY VERY BADLY TYPED POSTS WITH MANY ERRORS.
IT WAS ONE OF THOSE BAD MOMENTS AFTER OUR LOSS.
THANKS
G.P
Sorry for the late reply Baron Gaydzag.
Your energy, devotion and enthusiasm are admirable, and I am sure you have lived years of disaapointmemnts, so thumbs up for your perseverance.
The Armenian investmet fund idea, along with micro loans to local Artsakhians is a great way to stimulate local econmic growth, is a bit similar to the nobel laureat muhammad yunus with the microcredits, Grameen bank. If such a fund were to be established, it is very important Sireli Gaydzag, that the caretaker of the fund be of immaculate history, i.e. clean, non-corrupt, close to investors (mamik, babik) it is important that we know with whom the caretakers rub shoulders. Above all, clear ECOLOGIC/SUSTAINABLE/ENVIRONMENTAL/AND CULTURAL PRESERVATION practices should be the main guideline as to where the money is channeled. Would you fund someone who wants to buy logging equipment and clear cut precious trees contributing to irreversible degradation and destruction of Artsakh forests?
Here is another example how our motherland is being raped and prostituted, whoever pays a generous sum can come and get a piece of it.
http://news.am/eng/news/48995.html
http://hetq.am/en/society/fortune-oil/
Knowing the ecological impact of the mining industry, how much virgin land shall we go on destroying? To whom shall the revenues from those mines go to? Surely not to the hard working Armenian citizen! Although a few families shall temporarily profit by working in such sites at the expense of their own health, and until the mine is depleted, then they shall turn unemployed once again, but with an upgraded lifestyle which cannot anymore be financed, will resort to various form of corrupt practices, stealing, crime …
So what I try to emphasize upon, is the ethical guidlenes of funding, without which, although having good intentions, are contributing to the destrction of our only motherland, and our youths. Gambling centres, alochol and drug abuse, plunging into materialistic lifestyles and pursuits are all symptoms, that we are doing things very wrong. Internet cafes although a positive advancement, but when they become poker centers, are thus destructive.
As to repatriating/resttlement, we do not need to spend any funding on that. Just freely available land is more than enough. We need a database of resources (mainly water, arable land, forests) settlements, population densities etc. which is maintained and constantly updated at a regular basis. And thus accordingly plan properly which parts of Artsakh need to be populated (i.e. decision making tools), of course there are military and security considerations as well. yess ounim im koves yergu hazar dassin arbanyak ngarner, yev adke gernank amen dessag kardessner hanel, aysssinken, nor jampaner, shur, keder yev lij er yevaylen yevaylen….eem kordzess ashkharakrich e, specially yergink en ngarel, our vor gashkhadim polor askhar e ge ngarenk. I wish I can contribute with my skills to someone but I have no address. Information management is key to any future plans for repatriation. Therefore, I am putting my energies at the service of any true hayaser, so yete mege bedk ouni updated ngarneru togh hosdegh forumin mech ir email addresse kere, yess ambayman ge gabvim hede.
Finally baron Gaydzag, as much as I like your ideas, I will not spare any effort, and will gladly be part of the professional team you propose. Let us try to meet in Erevan this year, I will probably do 2 trips, in may and in july. Time is an issue for me as well, since I am working and have limited vacation days, and would like to see an accelerated plan with actions and not only breathing fresh air. ge gabvink emailov. I have a great hayaser friend, he is author of http://www.armenianhighland.com and resides in glendale. I am sure he will be very pleased to meet you and share some of the ideas which we have discussed together, he is a true idealist and has done his part in providing historical information to Armenian youth helping them to remember who they are, at least it has served its part for awakening the dormant Armenian in me. We do have some idealistic ideas, and are always looking for idealistic people to get together with and exchange thoughts and transform into plans. It is high time that Armenians put their little tiny differences aside, and think in a holistic, patriotic, strategic and in an ARmenian way, united in loyalty to the Armenian cause, but having with diverse visions and opinions for the progress and well being of our people and country. In this respect, my visions overlaps with yours, freedom and empowerement for our people, economic power, and an eternal strive for perfection in our daily life practices. We need seeds of a new Armenian era to be planted all over our land. Seeds of wisdom, of skills, knowledge, talents, living in a communal way, traditional of course, since the Land will never betray us, but pursuits after material gains will prove to be illusory. These seed communities will maintain the moral values of our young brothers, will prevent our youth from falling into the pitholes of modern day lifestyle, and at the same time well integrated into the global village. It is the cream of humanity we want to interact with, no the herds of commercial masses. This is a matter of undisputable urgency, the killing incidents in our national Army in Armenian and Artsakh is a sickening phenomena. Armenian killing Armenia? what on Earth is going on? social problems do not need money in order to be handled. Life is more than stuffin cash into bamboo sticks. Actually isnt money the cause of most of our problems? Didn’t our Lord say “you cannot serve two masters? ” Either we shall worship God or Mammon. Clear as crystal and let the our Holy Church stick to the values, dogma and principles of our beloved Lord Incarnate. May our Holy Armenian Apostolic Church teach our youths those principles and live this dogma, for failure to do so, means betrayal of the Lord’s Word.
When descendants of the mousaler warriors end up popping xtc pills and attending techno “events” (some who read this will understand what it is about), this is a clear symptom we have lost a generation. For sure such a generation is not going to abandon such a lifestyle and endure some of the hardships which the Artsakhians are going through, it is impossible. What is crucial is to prevent the negative influences to reach immaculate Artsakh, asopting only “investtments” mentality will no doubt carry along many negative influences, and the positive outcomes of such venture will outweigh the positive effects. Sorry for repeating myself over and over.
Dear/Sireli Harout,
I wrote you a little while ago-direct-hope when you have time you´ll go over it and think.Meanwhile up above in you post I see it was not clear to you as to my THESES.
THE ENVISAGED NATIONAL INVEST.TRUST FUND IS TO BE FORMED ESTABLISHED IN GNEEVA CH,BY OUR MAGNATES(THE NUCLEUS OF IT,) WITH THEIR INPUT OF AN ATLEAST ONE BILLION DOLLARS, WHIOCH IS TO BE CONFIDENCE BUILDER.YOU SEE,IF YOU GIVE IT TO ME,THE MONIES I MEAN, THIS AS AN EXAMPLE OR ANY ONE SUCH AS MYSSELF, OR OTHERS THE SATAN WILL ENTER INTO ME THEM AND TAKE THE MONIES AND GO TO DANCE SAMBA IN RIO DE JANEIRO….-EXAMPLE.
RAFFI THE IMMORTAL HAGOP MELÑIK HAGOPIAN SOME PLACE WRITES PAGHE PAGHI MODE E GNOUM MONEY GOES TO WHERE MONEY IS.
KIRK KERKORIAN,.LOUIS SIMON MANOOGIAN, EDUARDO ERNEKIAN, VATCH MANOUKIN (u:k) CAFESJIAN OR THE BROTHERS IN MOSCOW WHO HAVE OVER A BILLION DOLLARS CAPITAL NOW AS TO FORBES, DO NOT HAVE AN EYE ON SMALL INVESTMENTS OF WORLDWIDE ARMENIANS.SO THE FUND MUST BE CREATED BY THESE THEN FURTHER DOWN MILLIONAIRES TO CHIP IN DOWN ALL THE WAY TO HUNDRED THOUSAND TEN THOUSAND OLLAR THOUSNA D DOLALR AND AHUNDRED DOLLARE.YOU GO CALCULATE TO WHAT AMOUNT THE TOTAL WILL COME UP TO IF 100,000 PROF. COLLEAGEUS ASSOCIATES CHIP IN…….?
then their T H E I R , MONETARY EXPERTS WILL RE INVEST IN GOVT. B O N D S , NOT FUNDS.-I KNOW A BIT ABOUT ECONOMY. THEN FROM INTERESTS PROFITS , SOME 5% at least, only 3% given to us, rest to be added to capital.ALL MONIES TO BE IN FUTURE L O A N E D THROIUGH NAT´L RA BANK, AND THROUGH OTHER SMALLER BANKS THROUGH NA T´L BANKÁPPROVAL ,LIKE ARTSAKH BANK ETC., TO FARMERS, SMALL ENTEERPRENEURS AGAINST MORTAGED PROPEERTY OR OTHER BELONGINGS FOR 10-15 YRS PEIRIOD AT 2%…hope so far you understand monies are not JUST GIVEN AWAY…..
THEN INDEED, SINCE MENSOIAN AND MAN MANY OTHERS HAVE ALSO THOUGHT OF RESETTLEMENTS MY VERSION IS R E P A T R I A T I O N, TO RA/artsakh javakh, THIS CAN FIRST OF ALL BE ADMINISTERED THROUGH The agents that above board of the billioniares govern, nogt through me, if me i take monies and fly to RIO…UNDERSTAND PLEASE.
AS TO 500 MILLION $ YESWTERDAY CHINA DECIDED TO INVEST IN ARMENIA, LET US HOPE AND I AM SURE THEY WILL SUPERVISE IT, ANOTHER 100 EUROS BY EU.35 OF WHICH IS g r a n t .not loan, HOPE PART OF THIS GRANT stays in armenia…
best rgds to all
Sireli Gaydzag,
First, the 500 chinese millions surely will be supervised. The objectives are clear, maximize extraction of iron ore, at MINIMAL cost. Therefore, all press talks about environmental guidelines are simply loads of bullshit not worth the paper printed on. Also rest assured that health and safety regulations for the mine workers will be the last issue to be considered. Bottomline, the few oligarchs will make their mega profits for their “services/bribes” to politically facilitate the extraction process. I would not be even surprised to see a wave of chinese workers in Armenia doing the dirty job soon, unless Armenians are willing to do it cheaper.
As to the 100 mils”The EU programme is conditional on the respect of the economic programme agreed between Armenia and the International Monetary Fund (IMF).” Sir Gaydzag, if my memory does not betray me, I have difficulty remembering cases of IMF loans which served the country it was given to. IMF, is clear signature of sadana. The far end of such programs eventually ends up by plundging the country into debts and being owned by banks, therefore, outsourcing also the political will of the country.
The president of brazil, Lula Da Silva, when decided that his country pays its debts to the IMF, and this according to a transcript of an interview by the Financial Times, was kindly asked NOT to pay its debts back,
quote “The irony was when I called de Rato at the IMF and said I don’t want the IMF’s money. He said, no, we need to lend the money to Brazil. Brazil needs to borrow. Brazil should keep its loans with the IMF. It’s very important for me to show that Brazil … I said (Lula), no, I don’t want your money. And he was really upset when he got back the $16bn that we borrowed.”
The transcript above gives us an idea that IMF/EU interests are not inline with our national dreams and inspirations. Afterall, now, the nutcase Gaddhafi is slaughtering his own people while the EU and UNSecCouncil just watching at the “developments” and still “looking” and different options how to react!! Well, if you have a dictator selling EU oil at low price and moreover patrolling Africa’s gates to Europe, thus preventing scores of hungry African immigrants reaching the coasts of Europe, then, dealing with dictators is not an issue anymore, even if its at the expense of people yearning for freedom.
Ilham Aiyev is no exception to this. This year EU signed an agreement to buy azeri oil. Unfortunately, even Poland banned its citizens from visiting Artsakh and subdued to azeri pressure. Not to mention Nato’s full blown program to arm azerbeijan to the teeth.
Any reliance on external parties will end in a disaster, simply cause it doesn’t pay to shake hands with Armenians. I am pessimist, but realistic. But the world goes on, despite the darkness governing individual and national affairs, yet we cannot but hope that we shall one day emerge from this dark age and rise like a phoenix.
That much for foreign investments. As to the Armenian investment fund, I understand the concept, it is ambitious and intelligent. But you have said it already, money goes where money is, and I am not a financial expert, so I salute your efforts and wish them every inch of success. Most certainly some good Armenian brothers will certainly benefit and secure a dignified livelihood for their families.
As already I told you before, my practical skills which I gathered through my working experience are under Armenian service, freely.
But my idealistic thought is far from the many proposals already discussed above, and I shall very precisely delineate them for the sake of clarity, so the reader’s attention is well appreciated at this point.
1- The true value of an individual is not measured by his social status, fame, or personal wealth, but instead, man’s true value is measured by his commitment to idealistic values, Love for one’s God, the Cosmic Creator, respect for one’s self, to one’s neighbour, to the environment he lives and prospers on, to the animals and above all, to remain FREE. Free from the bondages and chains that degrade God’s own creature, created in his own image, into a corrupt, rotten life form interested only in his own selfish personal pursuits even if at the expense of his own brother.
2- Man has to re-learn/KNOW what he truly needs to live the values mentioned in the first point. The basics are Health, Shelter, Nourishment. Then comes Growth (social and spiritual), Self-Realization, Creativity. And last but not least, when the basics are provide HAPPINESS, is spontaneously and naturally available! And isn’t happiness afterall, what we ALL truly want??
3- If one does not enjoy proper health, then all gifts of the world are worthless. Health is not restricted to the availablity of proper medical/dental care, clinics, medications etc. Granted, all that is good for managing traumatic cases. But what is of greater importance, is how to maintain proper health. Abstaining from intoxicants (alcohol, smoking, petrochemically grown food), proper breathing/physical/energy exercises, familiarization with local naturally healing herbs/roots which treat many of our illnesses and problems, and finally knowing what to EAT. Briefly, taking ones health into one’s own hand and only as a last resort falling prey into expensive pharmaceuticals, which mostly are symptomatic treatments and do not eliminate the root causes, in our days attributed to STRESS, as most physicians attest to.
4- Shelter. For one to be truly Free, at least one has to provide a roof under which one may securely fall into sleep and protect oneself from the inclemencies of nature (heat/cold/beasts). Standard building technologies other than being destructive to nature, require extensive heating requirements (energy!! imagine the impact of recent increases in gas/oil prices and how strongly it impacts the average Joe the plumber or Hayk the peasant). The reason for that is that modern construction does not take into account passive methods to maximize natural heating/cooling…i.e. passive solar heating in winter and cool breeze in summer. Moreover, modern construction is expensive which is a heavy burden on low wage Armenians. There are many innovative concepts for shelter buildings which do not require complex construction skills. Cob is one example as well as the Eco-Dome concept designed by the genius Iranian architect Nader Khalili, formerly a skyscraper architect, after having awakened by the insanity of his job, designed the following easy to build homes simply using DIRT/BARBED WIRE/ SANDBAG!! with available plans at low cost, licensed in california, earthquake resistant!
http://calearth.org/building-designs/eco-dome.html
But this requires a consciousness shift of individuals,instead of expecting an illusive 150sq.meter apartment with marble tiles, disconnected from nature and an unsustainably expensive heating system, and in case of a new war (God forbid), instantly can be destroyed using modern high accuracy guided missiles, I assume azeris are not sparing any costs to buy such weapons with their 3billion annual toys gadget and availability of high resolution satellite images. One has to think of an ecologically integrated living space where families can live in relatively small, cozy and warm spaces, with some trees planted around becomes transparent to be pinpointed and thus leveled down (actually such houses, cheap as they are, are not even worth to be attacked since the cost of rockets way surpasses the damage it can inflict!!
5- Nourishment. Living in Artsakh,one has to live as a Peasant and not necessarily a farmer! And yes, there is a great difference between the two.A Peasant grows on his land what he needs for his daily nourishment, grains, vegetables, animals. If wheat is not available one can pass to his neighbor and exchange some fine self made cheese for some bread. If neighbour does not have than one can go to the next village, and as last resort go the supermarket to buy unavailable products. It is no secret that food prices are rising and expected to rise in a very dramatic way in the near future. You just have to read the inflation reports in Armenia and get a clear understanding of the severity of the situation. This will guarantee economic Freedom for the inhabitants of Artsakh and immune to market fluctuations in food prices. A farmer on the other hand is one who grows mono-cultures crops in large quantities and exchange it for cash so he can go to the market and grow his own food. Of course if one wants to be a farmer as his main occupation he can do so after having grown diverse crops for his own needs.
6- Having provided one self with the basics, then one can get involved in whatever form of activity that contributes his own personal growth. A computer programmer can still write software, a teacher can still go to the local school and teach our youths, one can build an ecodome and rent it to tourists as bed and breakfast, or provide local tours etc…thereby providing oneself with cash for regular daily intercourse, i.e. pay his telecommuncation/utitily bills. Strong family foundations come naturally when one adopts such a lifestyle and is no longer carried away by the modernities of life. One has to remain grounded.
Maintaining Armenian culture/language/traditions is fundemental if we want to preserve the Armenian face of Artsakh. We have an extraordinarily rich tradtion and culture, let us not spare any effort to preserve it, our folk songs, dances, literature. I emphasize on these points because I myself have lost all these thing,and wouldnt want to see this loss occuring to other brothers and sisters, victims of genocide and non-armenian dominant cultural influences. Just as we are now typing to each other in a language not ours.
Talking is easy, but doing is an entirely different topic, but is doable. Hay enk menk! Yete menk chi garenank asank enel, ov bidi ene??
I am not sure if there is any reptratriation center in Artsakh, if so, then it would be a great base to start from. There can be a standard informative/supportive/credit based program for those unwilling to take this path. And as an ALTERNATIVE,upon arrival (based on recommendation, since we know how sensitive the situation is) can be greeted by a local Artsakhian officer having been trained in his duties will offer the following.
a- will show on a map potential sites were land can be offered, certainly not at the contact line! The map is displayed on a standard PC with user friendly software for geographic information management, satellite images, topographic data, road network, water resources (lakes/rivers/pipe installations), soil maps, main towns/villages etc.
b- after viewing a list of pre-identified potential sites (I will leave it open as to who does this part of analysis, government, NGOs), assisted by the IT officer who also has local geographic knowledge, e.g. if someone wants to go and become a school teacher, then it is logical to look for sites were a school is available. The settler will then choose a few number of these sites (along with the list of GPS co-ordinates) and will want to go for an inspection for viewing them on the ground.
c- From that same repatriation office, a local driver equipped with a humble lada and a hand held GPS (these days cheaper than a mobile phone), will take the settler by the hand and go to these sites. A one day tour possibly 2 or 3 sites to visit starting early morning.
d- returning back to his hotel or to special lodging centres at a reasonable fee,the settler will think overthe sites, having taken digital photos of the site and surrounding, met the local neighbours, inspected thesoil, water proximity etc.
e- the settler will then go back to the repatriation office and inform his decision as to which site he has chosen. The uncharted land then is given on a donation basis. The income is used to fund the repatriation office activities. A gps equipped field surveyor then accompanies the settler and roughly maps the borders of the intended parcel. The data is brought back into the information management system (in order to know that the space is now occupied and avoid another settler in the future visiting the same site). The data also is sent to the Artsakh governement cadastral department. Otherwise the chinese may come and start digging for iron in your backyard. The area of the parcel is to be determined depending on anaylsis how much land is needed for self sustenance and for agro prodcution.
f- The repatriation office shall provide printed information/booklets/guidelines/tips etc. (basically survival information, awareness of risks, contacts for medical terminals, banks for depositing one’s initial capital) this part can be extended as needed to make the transition of the settler as smooth and unproblematic as possible.
g- the settler may initially stay at a host in the intended village at a certain agreeable fee among themslves. The host acts also as a caretaker providing information for the newcomer. And in return once settled shall naturally do the same for other patriates.
h- the repatriation office can collaborate with other organization who provide basic construction/agricultural tools/knowledge and charge for it a certain fee.
If you already read this far, then I congratulate you:) I am writing completely without any previous analysis, so certainly there will be many gaps to fill. But the points from “a” to “e” listed, I am completely familiar with and know what I am talking about.
This is a very rough concept which I hope already exists, otherwise, I would love to take part in any future efforts in those directions. Anyone who already is involved or willing to might write me at bordasar@googlemail.com
It is a different view of things, is not the only one, but together we can complement each other and have a succesfull repatriation program. I did not touch the security aspects, because it was partially well covered by Mr. Michael Mensoian.
Best
Harut
Dear Avery,
After a lapse of time,I realized that you were left out of our two way dialogue.Meaning me and Harout. Others ,like Lusik et al as well.I now have gathered up my energies and will resort to dialogues and debates on this very useful Armenian Forum.
Fact is this section on MICHAEL MENSOIAN´s above article is not there to be seen but we can start a fresh one.I suggest,one of you pose a question to me w/ref. to Re-organization of the Armenian Diaspora(s) since this topic,more than that really, is getting too much attention in our Armenian English and Armenian language weeklies.
Trouble is i simply do not know how to start a NEW TOPIC here.Please help me do so, or start yourselves. I ama low profile guy.Do it any of you, or even jointly.
kind rgds,
G.P: