Weekly Publishes Akcam Interview Rejected by ‘Changing Turkey’ Website

I always thought some of you are in a dream, an illusion of stealing some more land of Turkish soil. After reading Hratch’s warnings to Akcam, I changed my mind. This is alone how the large Armenian masses are cheated on.  Erivan was mostly Muslim majority before the war proves that Turkey should claim it to be returned to the mainland, or some kind of money should be paid for the Turkish belongings during the 1000 years Turkish rule. How historical Erivan is Armenian in compared to 1000 years of Turkish culture, which totally vanished immediately after the war?
This article is also a great gift, thank you very much, as Akcam himself confesses that, 1) The archives are open 2) There is no legal difficulty in Turkey regarding freedom of speech.
 
Such a great Bayram present,

Dr. Akcam, like a number of others, claims that Turkey is “changing” – for the better.
We have been hearing this for 125 years, at least.   First there was the Ottoman Armenian Constitution, which was scrapped.  Then God-knows-how-many reform plans.  All scrapped. Then the Young Turks were supposed to usher in a period of Nirvana.  Then after the gen0cide, a new “changed” Turkey was supposed to have been born under Ataturk.  Then the Kurds were massacred again.  Then a multi-party system was introduced.  Big deal.  Were we Armenians supposed to stand up and cheer?  Then the 1955 riots.
Let Turkey “change”. Is this something I as an Armenian am supposed get up in the morning and be thinking about?  Do Turks get excited because Armenia and Armenians “change”?
Should we care whether Turkey, now virtually devoid of Armenians, is “changing”? When did Hye Tahd start to rely on Turkish domestic politics?  Have we Armenians appointed ourselves to be Turkey’s psychiatrists?  Is Hye Tahd now considered social work?    Why are some of you so hung up on “reconciliation”?
 

To Mehmet Fatih:
Since you have access to internet it would be beneficial for your sanity if you first google about a subject before burping rubbish about 1000 years of turkish rule of Yerevan.
As what you say about the ‘archives open’ & ‘There is no legal difficulty in Turkey regarding freedom of speech’… read the article few times more & then you might understand its contents.

Best interview ive seen in a while, I feel that you conducted it very well, keep up the good work!

If anyone on here lives in the US, you are living on stolen, occupied territory. Just ask any native American. Perhaps we should all give it back, with interest.  I mean, they were here for at least 30,000 years before the place was usurped by the British, French, Spanish, Dutch and Swedes. That said, I think it’s imperative for everyone to ask and examine exactly WHY successive Turkish governments continue to defend and protect criminals of the past (ahhh…they actually did destroy the Ottoman Empire!), and the legacy of the CUP and 1915.  Of course, many of them were hunted down by the ARF, but many others stepped in to fill the void.  Prof. Akcam alludes to it when he says that today’s Turkish secular ‘elite’ were the successors to the properties, businesses and other assets of the minorities, particularly those that belonged to Armenians.  Unlocking this ‘mystery’ is an essential component in any of these discussions. Failing to do so will just enable an endless circle of accusations and useless demands what will never be met, to continue, in a very counterproductive way.  The reality is, all Turks are not alike…and when you scratch the surface, may not be Turks at all, other than what it says on their passports.

Mehmet, did anyone here wrote/said that the Armenian army will march here and there, and along the way massacre the Turks living on those lands? All we are asking is the recognition of the Genocide, which did happen, there is absolutely no controversy about this truth(the Genocide), the problem, as you and I know is loosely connected to “politics.” The USA needs Turkish oil and land for their air bases, once the oil dries and there is no need for an air base, then everything will change overnight.
And regarding lost Turkish lives, of course Turks died, remember the Ottomans were one leg of the Axis powers, and therefore thousands of Turkish soldiers died fighting the allies, and some soldiers and irregulars working for the Ottoman army died fighting Armenian freedom fighters, who simply were resisting the “death marches.”
As for any Armenian accessing and participatiing on this forum, did you find any one single Armenian using profanity?  I certainly don’t. I hope you will not, either.
Recently, some Turks, have posted messages, trying to shift the blame on Young Turk leaders, allegging that Talaat Pasha was a Circassian and Not a Turk, that the mother of the Sultan Hamid was an Armenian by the name Verjin, that the rest of the Young Turk leaders were mostly of Albanian, Jewish, Kurdish and Circassian, and that we should blame those individuals for the Genocide, and Not the Turks. We all knew about the ehnicities of these men, but their ethnicities does not  absolve the absolute majority, the Turkish people and the current Turkish governemt.
 To conclude, you brought Yerevan as having absolute majority Turkic population one time in its long history, fine I understand.  Did you know that Baku and Tblisi both had absolute Armenian population in the past? And how about Angora(Ankara), Smyrnia and almost all the cities in current day Turkey that used to belong to  and were populated by ethnic Greeks?  And what about Diyarbekir, which is overwhelmingly populated by Kurds? Food for thought.

“Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country.” George W. Bush

Mehmet, I write to you despite knowing it won’t make any difference, and also with a deep suspicion that you, and most Turks that argue there was no genocide (and don’t fool yourself, it is only Turks who make that argument), know very well that what happened during WWI was a genocide.   Perhaps you knowingly choose to believe otherwise, perhaps you only know subconsciously, and it causes you to react even more strongly.  I suspect that you must know not only from the wealth of information now available on the topic both on the internet and even in Turkey, but also because if you’ve been watching your own governments actions for the past 20 years, you can probably see they also know that it was a genocide.
So with that as my basis, here is what I have to say to you.  You come here to an Armenian forum, with your complete list of grievances, including not only ASALA, but also Khojaly.  You are so blinded by your attempts to “win” this argument, instead of seek the truth, that you can close your eyes, plug your ears, and repeat these two names as a chant.  What you cannot do is think to yourself, what you forbid yourself to think, is – my god, if the loss of hundreds of lives have me so incredibly upset, how can the Armenians feel after losing over a million lives, their homeland, hundreds of dialects of their language, their rich artwork, culture, and I have to again mention the lives….
Now let me say something that will piss you off a bit, but which you should hear.  When somebody says there is no genocide, whether it is their job (as it would be for the diplomats killed by ASALA) or not, that is not just words, it is two specific things.  1) it is a continuation of the genocide.  if you read the 8 stages of genocide on genocidewatch.org, you will see that the final stage is denial – and here you should not fool yourself – DENIAL IS AN ACT OF GENOCIDE.  2) It is a hate crime.  Just like calling a black American a nigger is a hate crime, denying the Armenian Genocide is the same thing.  It is indeed hateful, racist and despicable. You need to understand that words can be more than “just” words, they can be violent instruments. So try to understand that denial of the genocide is a violent act, and if the leadership of your country organizes a worldwide campaign of denial (and racist hatred), being greeted by thrown eggs is something that should not surprise you or them.
As for the rest of your post, get over yourself.  You don’t feel the need to forgive us?   Because you don’t hate us?   Awww, that’s so sweet, even though it’s a lie.  Talaat couldn’t massacre Armenians because he was Muslim and Islam doesn’t allow it?  Awww, that’s such a sweet dream world you live in, but it’s time you wake up.  You’re wasting everyone’s time here, including your own if you’re going to write such nonsense.
 

Hye, Raffi you explained the truths – Mehmet either will try to learn the truths as well, or, he will continue in his Ottoman mode of thinking – 1,500,000 innocents shall have deserved to be slaughtered.  What if these 1,500,000 had been Turks? 
Mehmet has been educated to believe the unarmed 1,500,000 Armenians citizens of Turkey, removed from their homes, to die whilst marching into the deserts,, slaughtered, raped, kidnapped and more, shall be the enemy of the Turks – because their Turkish leaderships say so…  
Today Turkish leaderships cannot admit that they have lied of their history – all these years –  in their own history books to  their own Turkish students, the Turksh leaderships have denied the Turkish Genocide of a whole nation.  The world over, many nations, International Genocide organizations,
Archives in all the lands (witnesses to the  Turkish vile crimes are recorded for posterity) and
in Washington DC, as well.  American Ambassador Henry Morgenthau’s efforts, his writings, were all
to speak up against what the Otttoman Turks were determined to accomplish – rid the Armenian lands of Armenians and claim the lands, homes, farms and more, and Armenian culture as if it were all of the Turks origins!  Mehmet, can you read Ambassador Morgenthau’s writings?  Is it available in Turkey – probably not.  Mehmet,  choice is yours  – if you are capable of learning the truths – or – not.
Many in Turkey today admit that Turks’ leaderships denials of the Turkish Genocide – are lies…
Manooshag

Raffi…I commend you on a very good set of comments.  Well said, however, we need to remember that a great many Armenians are alive today because of the same Islam you are implicating for the genocide. It doesn’t add up, does it?  How could such evil Muslims save thousands of victims of the genocide?  Perhaps the real perpetrators were not truly Muslim? Perhaps they took great liberties w/ their adopted religion and abused it royally in order to steal the assets of the Armenians during a very weak point in the Ottoman experience?  Perhaps, just perhaps, the real explanation is that this group of creeps, the CUP characters who negotiated w/ Armenians only to stab them in the back, were not part of the larger Turkish majority? There is evidence to support that thesis.  The CUP was not representative of the ethnic Turkish public at that time, though it sought to exploit it with ultranationalist words and a fear campaign directed at certain minorities. And, perhaps, just perhaps, today’s Turks are resisting blame because they want us to be more specific with our rage and feel a very real disconnect with the past?  Again, the  world doesn’t blame all Germans, it blames the Nazis for the Holocaust. This is not to absolve Turkey, but rather to provide an opportunity for today’s government to apologize in a sincere way for a horrendous crime and possibly work to reverse years of lies designed to protect the architects of the genocide.  To some degree, I’m sure they’re embarrassed to be in a position of defending it. They’re not that stupid.  None of this helps Turkey. They know the whole story inside and out, but along the way, it became a crime in Turkey to speak about this episode honestly or to use verbiage that pins blame on Turkey because it’s an ‘insult’.  Of course, the mere concept of not being able to speak openly and honestly about this in Turkey is an insult to Armenians, but until both sides can discuss this in painful detail – yes, in Turkey itself – not much can change. I suspect, more than land or money or anything else, Armenians just want to see and feel that the land of their ancestor’s birth feels remorse and is willing to humble itself, just a bit, to apologize in a  sincere way, no matter who was actually responsible. I really don’t think it’s too much to ask.  The mystery is that Turkey is a big boy now…it should be able to handle the truth, but continually acts like a small child that broke something at grandma’s house and needs to hide it – forever – even though everyone saw what happened. Isn’t it time to grow up?

So, Armenians shouldn’t reclaim our lands based on our ottoman property deeds from 1915 because…
a) Americans live on occupied Native American territory
 
b) It’s a far fetched pipe dream like our aspirations to secure Armenia’s Independence, the liberation of Artsakh and return of assets accrued from our ancestors life insurance claims.
 
OR because
c) Mehmet and his friends think its a very bad idea…

Mehmet, with all due respect, our guilt was asking to be free from the Turkish yoke. The Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Austrians and Serbs got theirs, but unfortunately for us, we tried, and were massacred en masse. And the only reason we could not get our freedom, was because of WWI, whereas the Ottoman government, under pretext of war, massaacred 1.5 million Turks.
Not one single Armenian, during, before and after WWI, has ever denied Turkish casualties. The bulk of the Turkish dead, were soldiers, and some died fighting Armenians, who were protecting their homes.  Yes, people die during wars, but premeditated massacre of 1.5 million “unarmed” people is called MURDER. 
You mentioned that a few of your posts were pulled from this forum, well, I’ve got news for you. Armenians don’t discriminate, two of my own posts were ceremoniously thrown out.
I would like to personally thank you, for having the interest and courage coming on here and sharing your thoughts. We really appreciate your comments, wrong or right. We believe that only open dialogue and sincere communication between our two peoples will heal our pain.

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

To Fatih… another editorial article from Hurriyet dated 29th of November 2009 under the title of “All the Taboos…Will be Broken’
Quote
In a recent article in the Turkish daily Hürriyet Vercihan Ziflioğlu, quoting Hasan Saltuk, stated, “All the taboos of this country will be broken and, in the future, there will not be anything that cannot be spoken about.”
Saltuk is the author of a soon-to-be-published book about the “Dersim Operation” of 1938. According to some accounts, close to 70,000 civilians were killed in that massacre. Contrary to official history that the “operation” was to quell a Kurdish tribal insurrection, Saltuk maintains, “the fundamental reason behind the operation was that the region was home to Alevis” and “they were merely Armenians who had changed their identities”.
In a development related to the Hürriyet article, filmmaker Nazahat Gundogan will release a movie about the Dersim Massacre. The documentary was three years in the making. In an interview with Turkish NTV, she spoke of “hundreds” of orphaned girls who were taken by or given to officers’ families to be “civilized” and taught Turkish.
During the “operation” the Turkish Armed Forces used aircraft for reconnaissance purposes and for bombardment. Among the pilots was Kemal Atatürk’s adopted daughter Sabiha Gökçen, the world’s first female combat pilot. It is said that she was of Armenian origin, and she flew off without dropping a single bomb.
In yet another development, the Dersim Massacre was recently the subject of a heated discussion in the Turkish parliament.
Following these positive signals, one wonders whether all the taboos truly “will be broken” in Turkey, ultimately leading to a free discussion of the Genocide of the Armenians. Will official Turkey finally face its past? At least one Kurdish parliamentarian, Selahattin Demitras, has stepped forward and spoken the truth. Will others follow him?
In recent years we have seen Turkish writers, journalists, artists, left-wing intellectuals come forth and acknowledge the Genocide of the Armenians. The voice of these righteous and brave Turks seems to be getting louder. Moreover, since the assassination of Hrant Dink and the publication of the “I apologize” document, some Turkish media have begun to broach the question of the Genocide with greater frequency than in previous years, although still not spelling out the “dreaded” G word.
When a person with the stature of Hürriyet’s editor-in-chief asks, “If Dersim was a massacre, what was the other thing?” the answer is pretty clear, although he does not spell it out. Bloggers on the Hürriyet site have answered for him – “Genocide!”
How representative are these righteous Turks? Are they spokesmen of a groundswell of public opinion a la “We Are All Hrant Dink” or are they an insignificant group who are–whether they know it or not–acting as a fig leaf for official Turkey? Put another way, is the government giving them some leeway to boost Turkey’s credentials as a democratic and civilized society, worthy of EU membership? Are these righteous Turks being manipulated by reactionary Turkey the way Young Turks misled and manipulated Armenian politicians in Istanbul before 1915? Of course, Ankara could also be using these intellectuals to encourage Armenians to bring down their guard.
To our knowledge there are no reputable surveys to gauge Turkish public opinion about the Genocide of Armenians. Based on postings on internet sites by ordinary Turks, it is fair to say that the public is overwhelmingly ignorant of the facts. It is also motivated by false patriotism and is unwilling to listen to voices that appear here and there, questioning the official narrative.
Not surprisingly, the “scholarship” of Bernard Lewis and Stanford J. Shaw are frequently invoked by Turkish posters even in respect to the Dersim Massacre. They argue that since these “historians” have not mentioned the massacre, it did not happen.
Turkophile Europeans, especially those with vested interests in Turkey, have promoted the recent rapprochement of Turkey and Armenia as positive developments. These voices from Europe are eager to grab every chance to claim that Turkey has progressed and matured towards establishing genuine democracy. To make their case, these apologists of Turkey point out that the country introduced changes to its penal code 301, following Europe’s insistence. It is true that some changes were made on April 30, 2008. However, these did not go far enough. The principal alterations were limited to the substitution of “Turkishness” with “Turkish nation”, the reduction of the maximum penalty from three years to two, and requiring the permission of the justice minister to file a case”. The dictatorial and racist spirit has remained unchanged.
No wonder novelist Elif Şafak has said, “The Article has a chilling effect on free expression”. Meanwhile, Nobel Prize-winner Orhan Pamuk has become a hate figure in his homeland, and so worried in his and his family’s safety that he has moved to New York for the time being.
Yes, we hope that “All the taboos … will be broken … in the future”, but as long as the hideous article 301 and the operatives of the old guard are in place, nothing can be taken for granted. Neither the good intentions and the apologies, nor the lofty expressions of the righteous Turks should veer us from being ever vigilant and circumspect. We’ve learned our lesson only too well!
Uquote
Mehmet I’ve underlined some paragraphs… It would really be useful if you first read your local editorials…No offence but it will enlighten you more if it is from Turkish source rather than an Armenian one.

News flash:  if you have an Ottoman property deed in your hands for your ancestral home in Turkey, and the house is still standing, and is uninhabited, I believe you can claim it and live in it today according to current Turkish law.  I’ve been told this several times in Turkey.  Even more interesting, an Armenian family currently living in London was just recently awarded 11 prime acres of family land on the Bosphorus by – surprise, surprise – a Turkish court.  Admittedly, these are very small things, but anyone is free to pursue such claims on a personal level.  Everyone should keep in mind that the idea of prosecuting a current government for the crimes of a past (and discredited) regime will not go very far, especially since the current players were not even born when the crimes occurred.  At best, you are relying on an effort to embarrass them into an apology.  If that’s the case, wouldn’t it be much better to begin not with insults and empty threats, but rather a vigorous effort to har-kell them to your side?  There is a rare opportunity here to work out a new dynamic, but first, Armenians really need to stop acting in an undignified way. They need to stop arguing from fantasy. We all know there is no excuse that can justify the genocide, but endless anger about it is counterproductive. It is psychologically debilitating and unhealthy. While an act of apology or even compensation from Turkey would be welcomed, it is not going to cure every Armenian ill, either in the diaspora or in Armenia. I fear that too many people are putting way too much effort into something that will produce very little of substance. Yes, it’s well worth pursuing, but please…try to pursue this in a smarter, more thoughtful way, especially since none of the avenues used in the past have produced anything worthwhile at this point. Keep the goal, but change the strategy, and defuse the objections.  We may find there are more people offering support from all sides. Remember, a law of physics is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It’s true in human interaction as well, and worth remembering. That’s all.  
 

 Karekin, I gather your comments were about some of the subsequent posts, not about Ittihad. It’s now clarified.

The Armenian Weekly proves – time and time again – that it is, very simply, the internet’s top address for the exploration and exchange of the ideas and intellectual currents that will shape the future of the Armenian nation.

I will not comment on the Dersim massacres, since I have not done enough reading on it. (However, I have heard Sabiha Gokcen was the first to drop the bomb.) However, I know enough and heard enough first-hand stories about the other massacres that have targeted other groups or people that the Republic thought would be a threat to its survival.  It is fair to call all killings of innocent people, a murder and a massacre. That is it. I hope those, who ordered or personally killed even one innocent person would pay for it, either in this world, or hereafter.
Despite my respect for the lives lost, the death tolls, how large they are, do not determine whether it was genocide or not. I am not worried of any consequence that the recognition of a genocide would cause; in particular financially. We are rich enough to pay for anything, and make the entire Armenia a prosperous country but isn’t what the new government now trying to do, anyways? 
Egemen Bagis has said it very nicely; we can’t be rich if we live in a poor neighbourhood, we can’t be safe in an unsafe neighbourhood.
The land: You can forget about it, unless Armenia somehow possesses nuclear warheads, like Israel, and use them to invade and kill half Turkish population in your own hands. Is it the only way that you will give up your genocide claims? Correct me if I am wrong, that is what you had said my friend(?), right? – Such peaceful people some of you are and can still accuse Ottomans to have genocidal intentions.
However, I will never accept being labeled as a nation or the ancestors of a nation that hated a certain group of people and want to get kill them all. Because, I believe the collapse of the Ottomans brought nothing but pain and sorrow to the world;  in Balkans, Middle East and Caucasus. (http://www.newsweek.com/id/224676) and this is not because I am missing the empire’s great armies or the huge lands, but I am missing the richness of its culture and being friends and united with all these great peoples of this part of the world regardless of their religion and race. I know Armenians will never have another Sinan, and Turks will never have another Fatih (the one opens doors) or Arabs will never unite  and Jewish will never feel safe.
Because of all these, I am accusing CPU, the Armenians, Turks, Arabs for their betrayal and ignorance that led the losses of millions of lives on all sides in the past, and created the sick minds who killed Hrant or those who would dream of having nuclear war heads and exterminate Turkish people.
 

I kept telling CPU for the Ittihat ve Terakki, only now I recognise, apologies, that is funny but looks like an analogy to the central processor unit. :)

Mehmet, I don’t think Armenia will ever do that to get the lands back. We don’t carry out genocides. None in our history. Who knows, maybe so-called “turkey” is a country that will disintegrate, like the Soviet Union or Yugoslavia. Maybe it’s so rotten to the bone by its internal contradictions that it will fall apart under the weight of its own history (you know, there are at least 1,5 million skeletons in the wardrobes down there).  Many changes happen you know, in our lifetime and after. Then again, maybe you get lucky & live to see so-called “turkey” to cease being the country it is today.  Stay tuned.

Well, sorry but we are generous and understanding people who care about other people’s pain and sorrow. We don’t want anyone hate us, and determined to help all in need despite some fanatics.
We’ve learned our lesson from the past; we are now better prepared against all those who manipulated and deceived their peoples against us in the past, with false hopes and promises of bright future, independence, and wealth. All they got was pain and suffering, and almost the entire Ottoman nations  not only lost their freedom but also their dignity at the hands of Western colonialism.
We will stay calm, and not get provoked tis time, and keep our hand in the air waiting for the mutual shake. Still our other hand is read and our fist is tight in case of any physical threat. So you choose which of our hands you would like?
Have a great and wonderful day,
 

mehmet, really? Is one hand in the air and the other one is a fist? No joking. Thank you for warning us. Can we be your friends? But be nice this time around. So, no more manipulation? So it was England, Germany and France who manipulated ittihad into the Armenian Genocide? Yes? And little ataturk –we all know he was a puppet, and how couldn’t he: his best legacy is that you can get alcohol almost anywere in so-called “turkey”, the only Islamic “country” where it’s so easy to get it– was instigated by Russia to march against Armenia, I gather! Now, that explains it. Really, can we be your friends? You scare us, mehmet. Your “country” –which really is not a country and is not yours, as you would know very well if you read good books instead of bad turkish newspapers– has been rotting for a long time. It’s just of matter of sitting and waiting. We saw the Soviet Union collapse, we saw Yugoslavia explode into tiny bits. We will just sit and wait. Keep your hand closed “tight” into a fist: you won’t even be able to pick up the little pieces.

Hye Mehmet Faith, you have my sympathies… you have been educated in your schools to a history book which has been prepared with lies from your Turkish leaderships… the truths shall shock
you – over and over for each of the lives taken.   Ottoman Turks  killed peoples of the Chrisitan religion – to take their lands, culture and more to ‘house’ the ‘hordes’ from the Asian mountains – so the Turks shall have a homeland, fully equipped, and more,  albeit stolen from an unarmed nation… Stolen, since they slaughtered and terrorized the Armenians for their lands.   Today, subsequent Turkish leaderships continue their policy of lies – the Genocide of the Armenians ‘never happened’ though the world over, there are many instances of record for those who are able to read.   Today Turks still pursue the Armenians, all the world over, hence until today, the Turkish Genocide of the Armenians has not ended, the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation still exists – never to be forgot; reparations due and owing – still… 1915-2009.  Manooshag
Manooshag

To Ferhat:
I am not sure, you are really Kurdish. May be you are acting as a Kurdish.
Turkish government had terrible mistakes against Kurdish and alevi origin people in the past. Currently there is an optimal political climate to resolve socio-cultural issues. Kurdish worker party (PKK) and it’s supporters have finally understand that, you can’t get nowhere with violence.  Turkey is our country (belong to all ethnic group). Turkey is a great country and Turkey is getting economically and strategically more powerful in the region. We need to live in peace.
Get over with your ethnicity based hate filled old fashion psychotic ideas. Spend more time and effort for peaceful solutions.

To FERHAT:
You are too angry, emotional and you are thinking not realistic.
Alright, please continue to live your little dream world!
Thanks!

Well, once again, the dogs are unleashed, and any hope of a conversation is axed. Racism and hatred overcome the dialogue that we all needed. After all, this is what some people are earning their lives from. Aren’t those who are open to mutual understanding suffering the most from this?
Turkey is getting stronger each day; politically and financially. We are confident people of our past and future. How about you? What do you have other than hatred against Turks?
Have another wonderful day,

Hatred against Turks? Racism? Conversation axed?
Where is your love for the Kurds? You have forbidden our language to be thaught in our schools. That equals= RACISM
You have been bombing us since middle of 1928 and until today, 2009. That equals=HATRED
We have tried again and again to bring our issues, the issues of 22 million Kurds of Turkey to the Turkish government, and every time you refused to listen to our concerns. That equals=AXING THE CONVERSATION.
Now, all of a sudden you have become Mr. Nice Guy, hmmm, that’s strange.
No one here is questioning Turkish power, economic and military. So, don’t play victim here.  We all realize the massive military power of Turkey, but along your military power, you should cultivate civilized manners, i.e. respect for human live respect for other peoples rights, respect for other religions. Just recently I found out that a church on the island inVan was restored, but then a massive Turkish flag was stuck on the church…you tell me whether that is respect or love for a Christian church. If you honestly like dialogue with us or the Armenians, stop hiding behind dresses, come on out, and let us all discuss with honesty and integrity. History is my witness: Not one single promise given to us by the Turkish government has been kept. You have decieved the Greeks, the Albanians, the Armenians and the Kurds all throughout your history.
Let me give you Mr. mehmet a very very very very very recent example:
Now, I am not an expert on this Turkish-Armenian protocols which were mediated by the USA, Russia etc etc. Just a few days after the signing of these protocols, Turkish deception went into high gear, and once again Turkey is playing the game by connecting Armenia-Turkey reapproachment with Armenia-Azerbaizan conflict. That showed the back stabbing nature of Turks.  Nothing against you Mehmet, but everything against your government.
If you want to talk about FACTS, then I am here and will answer your every question regarding Turkey and Kurds.  Don’t bring to me the phony “we are friends” or “we are one family” and “Turkey belongs to all of us” lies, because Turkey belongs only for th Turks, otherwise, why was our language was not thought in our schools?  We speak Turkish fluently, no need to become experts in Turkish language. But our children need to learn the Kurdish language, and our customs and traditions.
And as for the military power you have. You know damn well that a small group of freedom fighters CAN EASILY bog down 2-5 million soldiers with extreme ease and comfort. So, don’t show your arrogance my friend, it can easily turn into tears and disasters.
My sincere apologies for all Armenians frequenting this forums. I understand that I keep bringing Kurdish issues here, but whether we are Kurds, Armenians, Alevis, Greeks or Albanians, we have all suffered death and sorrow on their hands. Thank you for your patience.
We will FREE KURDISTAN, it will take some time, but we will, you all will see.

Mehmet, yes, turkey is getting stronger every day, economically and militarily: just like the Soviet Union in the 1980’s, ten years before its collapse.

Mehmet,
This is personal and I hope you read it. I am Armenian and you are, from all I can read above, my enemy and the enemy of my nation, as much as your country is. You have a very distorted notion of Armenian history and your own, and what you did to the Armenian. If your country becomes civilized one day, and I have very strong doubts about it, it will be ashamed about what it has been done under its name and flags to us, the Armenians, in the land you usurped from us and on which your own nation is sitting now.

The contempt with which you write about the extermination of Armenians and about Kurdish complicity in the Genocide makes you a despicable person to my eyes. It also makes you a coward, because you would not dare to say that to me or to any Armenian or to any Armenian grouping face to face. You hide behind a nickname on an Internet forum. So you are the ultimate expression of cowardice, the same cowardice of mob mentality that drove your ancestors to the extermination of my nation. You find that the Van uprising and that the revolutionary activities by some Armenian national parties was sufficient excuse to wipe out an entire nation, women, children, the elderly, priests, everyone. With the views you endorse, you are not only a despicable human being but you could also be liable to possible charges for hate crimes in a number of civilized countries, to none of which you belong: you may realize that with your views you are not only justifying the Armenian Genocide, but also the Holocaust, the Cambodian Genocide by the Khmer Rouge and the Darfur Genocide. In other words, you deserve no respect whatsoever from any decent human being, especially from anyone who believes in God, as you claim to do.

As I am human and also susceptible to base instincts, I have very base feelings for you, and you might consider yourself lucky I or many other Armenians do not know who you are or where you hide. But I will tell you this. I am against killing people like you, because I am against killing people, be it Armenian, Turk or anyone. More specifically, I am all for getting our lands back, because they are ours, but I would never want that at the price of a genocide. To be honest with you, for all the rubbish you have written above (and for which, if you have a bigger brain than I now think you do, you may be appalled and ashamed one day), I would not want you to have the violent feelings and pain cause by loss that I and Armenians endure.

The reason is that I know that even someone as despicable and worthless like you has a mother, a father, you may have brothers and sisters, grandparents still alive and many friends, and I am sure you must love them with all your heart and your love and friendship is returned. And you would suffer endlessly if one day, out of the blue, they were to be uprooted, made to march in the desert, be raped and stabbed or left to die of hunger and thirst. You would cry every day of every year if something like that happened. That’s what happened to us collectively. There is a photo on page 291 of the English translation by Peter Balakian and Aris Sevag of “The Armenian Golgotha: A Memoir of the Armenian Genocide, 1915-1918” by Grigoris Balakian of a girl that’s lying dead and an Armenian woman, a deportee, is stroking her. This girl is lying on the ground outside Aleppo, my birthplace, and she has a sweet expression in her face. She looks as if she is sleeping and dreaming. It’s the most heart-breaking photo I have ever seen, because I instinctively feel the urge to wake her up, to bring her to life, and yet that’s impossible, and the reason it breaks my heart is that this little girl, a victim of the Genocide carried out under your name and denied under your name, resembles so much my sister in her childhood. And for all the contempt and the urge to reciprocate your base instincts that I feel, I do not want you or anyone in the world to ever undergo that suffering. The pain is unbearable.

Thanks Ali for the advice, but that alone was the point to show the racism, and the attitude of some of the brainwashed people, here and there.
I know, no one is interested in my pain, since my family as another 12 million Rumeli Muslims sought refrugees in Turkey who had escaped from Christian cruelty in late 19th century. At least 10 times of Armenian lives, we lost during the march from all over Europe to Turkey.
Oh, well, my fathers, too were there for a thousand years.
Our only fault was to be Muslim, and we were called Turks when we were murdered, although many of us were not even Turkish. I now embrace being Turkish, and proud to be one, and thankful to this great people who welcomed my family and shared their food with us in our tough times, although they themselves were suffering, too.
None of those newly formed governments, nor the Russians assigned people to protect us en route from Bulgarian gangs, none of them allocated food and shelter for us on our way, and none of them allowed us to go back after the war was over. The few of us who survivued, lost their names, their kids were taken away and given to Christian families. They lost their culture and identity.  These are from my personal memory, and what I know and heard from my grandparents.
I heard worse stories from the people who came from your area. The muslim population in Caucasus, in Revan, and in other parts of the region who were the majority before the WW1 and forced to leave in harsher conditions, worst of all, the winter in the mountains of Caucasus. These 1.5 million people whose belongings were stolen by Armenians were not relocated, they were simply kicked out of their thousand year homes, and murdered on their death march. They had nobody to protect hem en route, and they were chased by the Armenians, as well as the Russian army. They had no place to go, and no one to help but again Turkey who embraced them, as they saved many other people in the past. Those Turkish people who we owe everything, our religion and our lives and culture.
If you don’t feel sorry for the people who died because of your grandfathers’ greediness; I am sorry, but isn’t it my nation‘s greatness that I still keep sympathy for the Armenians being killed, or died en route? Am I not the right person who would understand your pain, and you should connect rather than insulting me and accusing me for using fake names? God know what would happen if you knew where I was? Well, we know what happened to people who ASALA knew where they were.
May God forgive you
 
 

Karekin, I am sure we both may agree on a number of issues and takes on history, and even if we don’t, we may amicably disagree. Then again, you come out in defense of this person, mehmet, who said, and I quote:

On Kurdish complicity on the Genocide (in a Genocide denier’s wording):

“So, indeed, it is the weirdest thing that Kurds were forgetting how helpful they were against Armenian terror after Berlin treaty,almost all asirets very useful to maintain the order.”

On the Kurds who want self-determination and fight for it:

“So yes, we have learned a lesson from our experience with Armenians. Well, having said that we don’t have any far lands to relocate them, so have to live with them, doing what is necessary now after so many mistakes”.

These words anger anyone with a sense of decency. So here is this turk advocating and defending what his government has done, and you come out in his defense, repudiating what I say. You don’t know me. You obviously did not read my post in its entirety. You obviously did not read that I am against any Genocide and against killing people. Yes, I believe people like mehmet and ali, who advocate uprooting people, deporting them, massacring them –just read their posts– while denying that that constitutes Genocide, are despicable and worthless, yet I am aware of their humanity, and that’s why I am against what’s precisely called crimes against humanity.

The second part, as you may be aware, is that it is not only about Genocide recognition and throwing some candies to appease us. Turkey is an enemy state of Armenia,  and it has consistently been so. 

I don’t know what drives your take on this, and I don’t care. You are intermittently Armenian and then you relapse into turcophilia, but that’s your problem.  I’ve been four times to Constantinople, Trabizonda, Kars, etc. so I know these people, as much as you can know them in a trip, first hand.  I don’t really care about turkish individuals, whether they are good or bad: there are all sorts among them, and I have seen them, as among every nation. Our problem is the turkish state, that not only denies the Genocide but also continues its enmity against Armenia  with its alliance with azerbaijan against Artsakh: they are now imposing the Armenian withdrawal as a condition for these disgraceful protocols to be signed. These were supposed to be without “preconditions”, remember? In other words, it’s still an enemy state and an unreliable one.

The second thing is this: our history has really tamed you so you accept matter-of-factly turkish entitlement by fiat and force. You equate demanding our rights and standing up to them with adventurerism. It’s just a matter of dignity. Armenia is ready to settle its disputes with turkey pretty much along the cautious lines that you advocate, to no use. That’s because turkey is against an independent Armenian state. 

The third thing is this, and very noticeable: you only intervene to belittle Armenians like me who call things by their name and in defense of turks who are being given free space in an Armenian forum, something that does not happen in turkish media. As I have said, even though you would otherwise seem a good interlocutor, I have my doubts you are Armenian and even if you are, your turcophilia and your lack of dignity –your disdain for Armenian demands on principle, your undisguised deference to your turkish masters, your condescending attitude towards Armenians: wow, how kind the turks, they let Armenians have stands on the Mısır Çarşısı!– put you on the other side. If Armenia ever needed someone to defend its interests, you would surely be on the opposite list. You cannot count yourself as an Armenian, or maybe you can: the lowliest types in Constantinople who blush before speaking Armenian in the presence of turks, who have been cowered into fear by their turkish masters and who faint if they hear the 1915 date and who look down in the presence of a turkish cop. I can’t blame them: they know better than I do where they live and what kind of criminal state they are dealing with. This one thing is clear: You are not of the mettle of Hrant Dink. That’s for sure.
 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=us-armenians-lament-signing-of-protocols-2009-10-11

Excellent. Thanks for the link.

Thank you, I appreciate this message my dear friend Karekin, this should be the way to win the hearts of Turks, believe me recognition or an apology is closer to you than you think with such an approach. Armenia will become a better place with such an attitude, so will Turkey.
It may not be of the genocide (since it means hatre and racisim towards Armenians, which I don’t believe was the intention of anybody in the Ottoman Empire, otherwise it would be deportation back to Russia like Stalin, or Hitler’s gas chambers,  instead of relocating them in other parts of the empire. Also consider many other subjects, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, of the empire faced relocation throughout Ottoman history),  but surely an apology for the pain caused, or for n0t being able to provide enough food and shelter and government’s responsibility in not being able to protect the lives of all innocent Armenians who died through massacres and starvation; a sincere apology for not being able to punish the people who attacked the convoys, or even for mistreatment for the Armenians left in Turkey. This can only be possible if Turks feel secure about their history, at least some of them understand the rational of the relocation, the way Turks felt about the Armenians who were supporting the enemy Russia, and only again some of you appreciate of what they have done correctly for ages but not by insulting them, or accusing them with racism. This is what all Turks proud of, not being racist, and being great managers of other people.
DNA commonality should still be the last to talk about whereas the culture and history and years of friendship, old good memories can be the starting point. We have to remember good old days, and use those good memeories to decrease our pain of the bad days.
(Yalanci) “Dolma” diplomacy can be more effective then you might think, and we can work for a common future, and perhaps Armenia becomes a rich enough place that some of you in diaspora may, one day want to return to your homeland instead of living in third countries. Perhaps, some of you may even want to live in Turkey, and sure enough Muslims may want to move to Revan, and other places that they were deported from. (I am on the other hand will always be a muhacir, but at least could have seen my family’s town in Macedonia. Thanks to the peace between Turkey and Macedonia today.)
Not only we open the borders, but we actually may open them for visa free travel, and even one day we may want to form a EU like big union in the region regardless of the different religions we believe, Turkey may even want to give up Eu membership and instead form an alliance ( a cultural alliance and union) with Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan as equal friends.
Peace at home, peace in our neighbours. We need each other, and be honest about our past, all sides, all parties, all people should think about their faults, and learn from their mistakes.
Thank you again,

Mehmet, thank you for all good wishes. Just a point of clarification: the extermination of an entire nation is called Genocide. That’s what Turkey did to Armenia. You may like it or not, but that’s how it is called. Second, the Genocide is perhaps the biggest issue of contention between Armenians and Turks but not the only one. Turkey is an enemy country for Armenia. It imposed a blockade on Armenia for the liberation of Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh), a war between the Artsakh Armenians and the Azeris. Armenia did nothing to Turkey for it to impose that blockade. Hence, the problem is not Armenia, it’s your own country. Further, it imposed the blockade for something completely unrelated to Armenian demands on the Genocide or on whether Diasporan Armenians are nice or not to Turks. That has nothing to do with that. It’s not a historical problem. It’s modern Turkey pursuing  enemy policies towards modern Armenia. And while you may have been well-intentioned in what you wrote, above: “This is what all Turks proud of, not being racist, and being great managers of other people”, you may realize that most Armenians will beg to disagree. The Genocide was not an exception: it was the culmination of steady anti-Armenian policies. Well before Ittihad Armenians were called giavour and treated as such. And when you say “great managers of other people”, remember three things: 1. the Genocide of 1915; 2. This “other people” you are referring to were in their own land, millenia before the first turkic hordes arrived there; 3. Armenians, nor any other nation, need other people to “manage” them, any more than your own people would not like that one bit.

Enough said. Now we know what thinks each of us in this forum and I really see no need for further comments.