Not Everyone Who Looks White is White

79 Comments

1. Powerful and piercing.
   Tremendously affected my senses, feelings and thoughts.

   Anoush, wish you well and hope you feel at home in Artsakh.

   Vart Adjemian

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   • Vartjan,I was so happy to see some of the coruption in our homeland being brought to light. Coruption is a plague of the world and usually there is a heavy price to stand up to it. I stood up to theft of aid.
     Also like most countries in the world there was the problem of violence against women. The Armenian Weekly on June 30, 2991 published my article “Fighting Against the Abuse of Women.” It was very hard for me to decide to take an abuser to court. There was no Me Too movement to make it more acceptable and important or any way to feel secure against future attacks for revenge. But I did it for all the Armenian woman who couldn’t hold their abusers accountable because they would go though character assassination or possibly be targeted for the rest of their lives.
     I also went through it because of this incredibly brave and dedicated detective Sash Zakian who was send to protect Artsakh soldiers. At the end of a year the abuser was found guilty and given probation. My punishment was his slandering me and telling people not to associate with me.
     We hope the truth has a healing power. Armenians wonder where justice is in so may instances. I Praise everyone standing up to corruption and violence against women everywhere. The price to pay is scary and remains constant but somehow we must get rid of greedy criminals strangling our beloved homeland.

   • What a beautiful piece. Why not be proud that you are ancient and from the middle or near east? Of course everyone, especially Armenians wants to be on the “winning team,” the European team, the Russian team. Look at our genetics, we have no relationship to Europeans whatsoever or Russians whatsoever. We are close-to-the-earth people trying to pass as priviliged odars. The genocide is a chance to love everyone of your Armenian family and not judge them based on wealth or status. It is a reminder to love and think deeply-yes, our genocide was also engineered by Europeans, the Germans, the English. The Pashas were educated in Germany, ethnic cleansing was the order of the day. I love that I am all Armenian and I have seen all sorts of discrimiation for it, I don’t pretend that I’m a WASP- if I was I would be embarassed for the countless shameful acts of genocide that have been perpetrated everywhere. Love starts with your planet, with the place that gave you your genes, to the animals and plants that make you who you are and keep you alive and then it spreads to your family, friends, your tribe, and then to the world. Armenians are afraid to admit they are of the Earth. They look they like the Earth- and that is good thing, be proud of it and respect God’s creation.

   • I have just found out I have 25% armenian ancestry according to a dna test.Just wow…all these yeas of not knowing all of my roots…..

   • I’m sorry for all your people have faced but Armenians are white . Remember race is a social contract if you were in the west you will be treated better that black Asians Indigenous and Non white Latinx. I don’t know why know everyone wants to deny their whiteness for a reason like stop it because this will damage actual POC are you a minority yes but the difference is that you are an ethnic minority and not racial.

   • What a lot of you don’t understand is white is a social construct white means European middle eastern/ North African olive skin is white people tanned skin is white people pale white skin is white people. The origins of the white race are middle eastern their middle eastern people today aren’t even middle eastern the real middle eastern people are Persians and Hebrews. People that are white are those who share same haplo genes have Neanderthal dna similar culture

2. Stop playing victim Amot kez. You are white and Armenia. You are not a person of color. You are not black your are not Latino you are not Arab. You are literally Caucasian. Armenians faces many tragedies throughout history and what kept us alive is not playing victim but standing up and riding the horse again. Stop with this horrific identity politics. To the world you are white. Armenians are white just like Greeks are just like Italians are just like Serbians are. Do not brainwash the Armenian youth with your victim mentality and try to be a “POC” in which you are not.

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   • Armenians are Caucasian in the general sense, but we are not actually a Caucasian people like Kartvelians, Chechens, Circassians, etc are. The cradle of Armenian civilization was Vaspourakan, which is the Lake Van region.

   • Mismo beli, ali život nam je u suštini crn.
     You can run that through Google translate to see where that graffiti is from.
     The largest lynching in America was of Italian men, who were not then considered white.
     My Armenian friend’s father was called a nigger. Mine was called “liver lips” which meant the same thing. You escape now by the skin of your teeth with the designation, at long last, that you are ‘white.’ You recoil at owning the past. All you’re doing is passing. Really quite banal. You own no profound truth that you need to be admonishing anyone with. We have all learned one thing, especially us in the Krajina. If we let the world deny what it has done to us, it will just DO IT ALL AGAIN. We have to make them feel it. We have to make them care about what happens to us. That’s the only way to avoid being victimized yet again. And we deserve to be seen for who we really are, not the way a racist world wants to stereotype us to fit its own agenda.

   • @David That’s terribly wrong and ignorant. Like said before, opinions like yours contribute to the alt-right extremist views. Delete your comment as it’s blatantly offensive.

   • Actually not all Italians are white. Nor are all Greeks. They have mood ancestry. As do Armenian people

   • I am Armenian and you are correct. Armenians are Caucasians. As such, we are White. We are not POC. We have a history of horror, pain, and PTSD that has been passed down through generations since the Genocide. Please do not condemn her, but instead treat her with compassion. She is desperately reaching for something through her pain, however misconceived it appears to the outsider. If you are not one of us then you can never understand what we feel. We are Caucasians, yes White, however it does not diminish the suffering that we as a people carry in our shared history. It is acceptable to feel solidarity with other cultures and races who share a history of Genocide. We are not the only ones. We are survivors and we have a homeland.

   • I’m not sure what country you are from, sir, but when I was growing up in my white suburb in south Jersey, Greeks were not really considered white. Italian was pronounced with a long I in the South and away from the coasts where they often heard the N word. As with Arabs today, such people weren’t considered truly white and even Polish jokes were a dime a dozen (though they were definitely white). It wasn’t til the 60s that Italians earned the right to true whiteness. And to be truthful such people as Greeks and Armenians in other parts of the country are still not considered white. From what I understand it was not uncommon for Italians to hear the N word due to the ignorance of so-called whites and fights with the Klan were common even in places like New Jersey until the 60s. I don’t agree with the victim mentality of many black people (of which I am one) either, but to pretend people haven’t been using white privilege in the country due to the current state of sociopolitics and often at the expense of economically disadvantaged minorities who have been here for centuries is unforgivable in my view. This article and it’s author are to be commended. Just be careful where you move since you think its so great for you here in the good ole USA!

   • you’re an absolute moron, me who is also armenian, has been insanely racially mistreated my whole life by ACTUAL white people and you going out saying “stop playing victim, you are caucasian” is just plain ignorant and wrong.

3. What kind of radical left wing article is this? If you aren’t “white” what are you? Black? Brown? Arab? Stop playin Victim. You speak a European language one of the oldest. Your culture is Christian you are Caucasian and not a person of color, you’ve been brainwashed. Amot kez. This anti European garbage is getting out of hand. Other Europeans have been our only friends surrounded by Islamic countries that want us dead and gone. We have never been oppressed by other Europeans but we’re almost completely wiped out by “Middle Easterners” the label you want to put yourself in. You are not middle eastern. You don’t have middle eastern culture religion or language. I understand some western Armenians are confused because most fled to the Middle East taking in some of their culture, but you are NOT a middle eastern. Your genetics are not even close to most middle eastern populations. Your language is most closely related to Greece and other European languages. Stop this BS and please don’t even post this garbage.

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   • “I understand some western Armenians are confused because most fled to the Middle East taking in some of their culture, but you are NOT a middle eastern.”

     I take exception to this and the implications of this statement. Western Armenians did not really change all that much when they went to Arab countries. It’s not like they weren’t eating “Arab” foods (as they are called in Armenia)–dolma, baklava, etc.–before they went to the Middle East (conversely, nobody was eating borscht or bonchik in Armenia prior to the Russians introducing those foods). You have to remember that we have had a 3000 year relationship with Mesopotamian/Semitic peoples (Jews, Assyrians, Syriacs, Arabs) and Iranian peoples. Conversely, we haven’t even had a 200 year relationship with Russians. We were always closer to Greco-Romans, Assyrians, and Iranians than we ever were to Russians. Before the Russians invaded Armenian in the 1820s, Eastern Armenians were closer to Iranians culturally.

     Genetically we are closer to Assyrians, Pontic Greeks, Jews, and Kurds–all of whom, besides Pontic Greeks–are generally considered Middle Eastern–than we are to the people of the Caucasus or Russians.

     Remember too, that the Republic of Armenia only accounts for 10% of the land that comprised of ancient Armenia. Most of Armenia WAS WESTERN ARMENIA.

     Are we Middle Eastern? Not really but kind of. It’s debatable. Not like Arabs, but we are certainly closer to Middle Eastern peoples than Georgians or Russians are. We sure as heck are not Caucasian or Eastern European. But that being said, we are not people of color.

   • My husband’s mother’s side is Armenian and his grandparents weren’t allowed to become naturalized Americans, until a second judge in Massachusetts declared them the 1681 Colonial American creation “white,” in 1909. Most Armenians in his family in America and Lebanon and elsewhere in the Middle East, consider themselves Middle Eastern.
     The Armenians weren’t considered “white” in the Soviet Union nor Russia, today. Don’t know where @David gets his opinions.

   • Another armenian in denial. Sad really. You seem to have fallen victim to this erroneous belief most likely due to the shame you feel for not really being considered “white/european”. Infact, our ancestry has been mixed with various ethnic and racial dna over centuries due to migration, war etc. We are west Asian by ethnicity, and yes, I have a background in Anthropology and I’m an Educator.

4. So is the only thing that signifies a “person of color” having dark hair/dark eyes or having a background of struggle? So are European Jews people of color? What about Basques? Ukrainians? Czechs? Dark haired Irish (Paul McCartney and George Harrison are/were of Irish descent and have dark hair–they are people of color too, right?) And how are Armenians persecuted in the US or outside of Turkey and Azerbaijan?

   “Color” is a term that was imposed on dark skinned people (primarily African-American) in the United States in the 19th and 20th century. It wasn’t a self-designation. How does this term apply to Armenians? Are Armenians marginalized in the US? Were they marginalized any more than Greeks or Italians in the US historically? I’m certain that Armenians were not persecuted as much as Jews in the US were and certainly not as much as African-Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, and Japanese. We were never killed here or put in camps, etc.

   By the way, Arabs are Caucasians (white) as well. Additionally, many of them have Greek, Roman, French, and even British ancestry. Arabs are not people of color. But Armenians–as a Christian, Indo-European speaking group–certainly are not.

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   • Italians were not only discriminated in the US, but many were lynched. Irish were also discriminated against and couldn’t get jobs. Many people in the US were discriminated and we’re at one time not considered White!The Arabs you speak of are not even originally Arab, they we’re what you call Arabized. Original Arabs are much more darker and many even resemble Africans. Please get some of your facts correct before posting.

   • “Genetically we are closer to Assyrians, Pontic Greeks, Jews, and Kurds–all of whom, besides Pontic Greeks–are generally considered Middle Eastern–than we are to the people of the Caucasus or Russians.”

     Which Jews?

     Not all of us are the Same.

     Armenians are very much like Georgian and Iranian Jews.

     Ashkenazi Jews are not anywhere near Armenians on an autosomal level,.

     Ashkenazi Jews cluster with South Italians/Sicilians and Peloponnese Greeks/Greek islanders.

     We are not “middle eastern” but squarely in the Southern European genetic cluster.

   • “When I say that I am a Woman Of Color
     I am sometimes ignored, mistrusted and
     Mislabeled white by those who know little
     About world history and geography.”

     Geography is that Armenia is located in the Southern Caucasus, that literally makes you a Caucasian.
     Your language Armenian is part of the Indo-Europian language family.
     Your cultural ties are towards the Christian European world.
     28% of men in Armenia carry R1b Haplogroup as their paternal Haplogroup, this is the most common Haplogroup in western Europe.
     11% carry G Haplogroup which is strongly embedded in Caucasian populations.

     22% carry J2 and it’s subclades such as J2aM67 which is as high are 90% in populations of the Northern Caucuses.

     Btw,when did “white” become synonymous with a people that faced no suffering or discrimination?
     Have you ever heard of the Holocaust?
     The Irish potato famine?
     Hitler’s mass murder/ethnic cleansing of Eastern Slavs in WW2?
     3 million NON Jewish Poles were murdered alone in WW2.
     A HIGHER death toll than the Armenian Genocide.
     You’re not a “person of color.”
     You’re a person that was radicalized by alt-left elitists in college and all of your talking points in your article read like a brainwashing lesson from academia.
     Are Turks whites?
     Maybe your obvious hatred towards whites might be tempered by the fact that a NON EUROPEAN Muslim group that is largely considered as non white were the ones that raped and slaughtered your ancestors?
     Say it.
     A NON white group of Turks were the ones that discriminated against you and in the USA countless Armenians found safety among the white populations that took them in and accepted them…

   • I don’t know why you felt it necessary to claim that we are not “Caucasian” like Udis, Georgians, etc. We share a closer history to them than we do to Yemenis or Egyptians. Yet you also claim that we are a Middle Eastern people, which is a political term created by The British Empire to lump all Arabic speaking peoples together. We don’t share anything in common with the Gulf states and North Africa.

     Also, historically Turkey was not considered a part of the Middle East, so the argument that Western Armenia is Middle Eastern is moot.

5. Armenians and Armenia are not a playground where you can dump any liberal ideology and expect us to eat it up. Most Armenians I believe are not brainwashed liberals; we are not going to dance the tango of political correctness for the glory of multiculturalism and globalism. We indigenous Armenians are not going to change or redefine our identity because many Armenians choose to intermarry with others. We are native caucasian (aka WHITE) people, stop spreading this kind of nonsense.

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6. It’s important for us as Armenians to recognize our history as a colonized people- while our colonizers were Turks and Persians for most of our history (also non-white peoples) it doesn’t mean that we don’t have much in common with many other groups that have been colonized by white western powers. In addition, when Armenians first came to the US, they were most definitely not considered white and had to raise a case against the government to gain legal status as “white” people as a method of securing their ability to remain and become citizens. Essentially, we were unwanted and discriminated against like many other immigrant groups- a trend which is evident in how immigrants of this day and age are still treated. All that being said, it seems natural to feel solidarity with other people experiencing discrimination the same way we feel solidarity with other people who’ve been subject to genocide.

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   • But that is basically any group in the US that was outside of the Anglo-Franco-Scandinavian sphere, including Greeks, Italians, Jews, even Irish and Germans.

     It’s fine to recognize the plight of oppressed people, but to suggest that Armenians were historically treated the same way as African-Americans or Native Americans in the US is absurd.

     As far as being colonized, most people were colonized at at least one point or another in their history.

   • Here is a deeply affecting poem by a woman who has stepped forward to fight for social justice and Armenians. My reaction was gratitude for her soul, and humility in the face of my own slackness. My jaw dropped as I read the vitriol from readers. I cannot understand where this comes from. She is far from playing victim: on the contrary, she is stepping up to fight for social justice for all. Yes, whiteness is a construct, because pure race and ethnicity is rare. Yes, white privilege exists, because people act according to the constructs we have created. As Armenians, as humanists, as anyone who believes in social justice, we should be applauding Anoush instead of bashing her. In my mind, she is a hero. Forget about partisan politics: this has nothing to do with it. Finally, whatever happened to civility? Is there any earthly reason why comments, if sincerely meant to be made in the spirit of dialogue, cannot be made kindly?

7. What kind of garbage article is this? Are you really trying to be a victim for no reason? We have been victims long enough and not at the hands of these so called “white” people you are trying to act like your not one of “news flash” you are, but rather “POC” who genocided us time and time again. These “White” people are our only friends when the world wanted us dead. They helped us time and time again. Armenia has far too many problems to listen to your left wing propaganda on how just because your white your not white lol then what are you black? Jesus how far will you go to be a victim?

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8. As Ted Tourian correctly stated in his article, “Narratives: Between East and West”, “Armenian culture has long sought validation and acceptance as being European. This mentality needs a surgeon general’s warning: hazardous to your family and the values taught as a child”.

   Armenia is not located in Europe, nor has it ever been a European country. Armenia is located in Western Asia, which therefore means that it’s a West Asian country. Why is that so shameful? What is it that’s so honorable about being a White European? The White Europeans, along with the White Anglo-Americans have no honor whatsoever. They, along with their Zionist brothers have made an enormous mess out of both the Middle East and the rest of the world.

   Sadly, there are just too many Armenians out there who desperately attempt to be less than Armenian; and because of this obsession with adopting the values and lifestyles of White Europeans/White Anglo-Americans, it’s therefore producing a devastating effect on the Armenian Nation (almost the equivalent of another Armenian Genocide).

   As for me, although my skin color is white, I most certainly do not view myself as being White; I view myself as being only one thing, and that’s Armenian. I have no need whatsoever to attach myself to any particular “color group”. By doing that, it would make my Armenianness a whole lot less.

   On the subject of being a victim, how can it be possible to say that the Armenian people are not victims of severe human rights abuse? After 103 years gone by, Turkey (the successor state of the former Ottoman Turkish Empire) was never punished for the horrifying genocide it committed against the Armenians, and not the slightest bit of compensation has ever been rendered to the Armenians (by Turkey as well as Germany) for the enormous damage inflicted upon their people as well as their homeland. After 103 years, where’s the justice owed to the Armenian people? Where were our “White friends” when we needed their help? These “White friends” of ours, never did a damn thing to stop the Ottoman Turks from slaughtering our people. As a matter of fact, our “White friends” encouraged the Ottoman Turks to commit genocide against our people.

   What about Azerbaijan’s endless campaign of terrorism against the Artsakh Republic, in which our precious Armenian soldiers are being killed at the LOC (Line of Contact) by Israeli military weapons? As always, Azerbaijan never gets punished for any of this? Again, where’s the justice owed to the Armenian people? And where are those “White friends” of ours to provide us with help?

   The Armenian people are indeed victims of severe human rights abuse!

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   • Great reply, the only person that makes any sense, the rest have identity crisis. There’s nothing wrong with this article,we Armenians stay aside from the rest of the group,we don’t want to be bundled with any colour groups as that will deminish who we are and fade into the “White genocide” that we most fear. The fact that these comments are written in English is in itself a tragedy.

   • you do realize that Europe is a sub continent right, whos boarders are completely political, Armenians do NOT look Asian, at all, have you ever seen an asian person? they have slanted eyes, while most Armenians have almond shaped big eyes, including myself, hazel eyes are probably the most common amongst Armenians, being ETHNICALLY DISCRIMINATED AND PERSECUTED DOES NOT MAKE YOU A RACIAL MINORITY, the empires that have tried to destroy us HAVE BEEN ARABS and the middle easterners that you all favoritize, WHICH IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT MADE TO SUM UP PEOPLE FROM ARAB COUNTRIES. YES, Armenia shares common cultural assets with middle easterners, DUE TO ARMENIA BEING ON THE SILK ROAD, Armenia shares MANY cultural similarities with the Balkan people, a lot of Serbians look Armenian, and the closest relatives Armenians have are Italians, Spaniards, European Russians, Romanians, Cypriots and Greeks from Europe. The only genetic affinity we have with so called ‘middle easterners’ are Assyrians, Iraniansand NOT KURDS, who are btw NOT Arab people. Being ethnically subjected to genocide does not make you a racial minority, and our white friends who you were basically talking shit about just now have helped us during the Genocide the most, WHILE STILL GOING THROUGH WORLD WAR 1 THEMSELVES. Who do you think saved 4,100 Armenians during the genocide? Was that literally not the French, who helped expose the Ottoman Empire and their genocidal acts during WW1, was it China, or Taiwan? Nope, it was our white friends, the Americans. Which continent has the most countries that recognize the Armenian genocide? THE AMERICAS, AND EUROPE. And of course, we should be great full to Middle eastern countries, no the middle eastern people, who accepted Armenians into their community, just like how we should be great full to our WHITE FRIENDS, who helped thousands from NON WHITE, NON EUROPEAN, MUSLIMS.

   • “European” is also a social construct. I don’t identify myself as a European, I identify myself as a Russian, who by the way share the Orthodox faith with Armenians. Bringing Armenians closer to Slavs than any Muslim group in the Middle East.

     Being on the same continent doesn’t mean you share someone’s values. Look at Soviet Union vs Western Europe. These might have well been two different continents from a political perspective.

     So terms like “people of color” and “European” are all inventions created by Anglo-Saxon designations. We shouldn’t identify ourselves with either – we should only identify ourselves with nationality, language, culture, and MENTALITY.

9. This comment is directed to Mr yerevanyan, first of all, Armenia has always been a European country culturally and geographically Armenia has always been the border country of Europe. We are white like it or not, we are ARMENIAN first but our race is white. you are not a “POC” you are not brown black or Muslim Turkic Arab North African or even Iranian Indian. Armenia is one of the only European languages that has its own branch as linguists have confirmed. Armenians are genetically isolated from any middle eastern population and are much more related to our European and Caucasian neighbors. Throughout history our oppressors were not from “white” people but were from Muslims and Turks who almost completely wiped us out. America and Europe helped us tremendously. The near east relief foundation for the Armenians who fled to the Middle East, Russia helped us France helped up and many more. It’s the reason we have a country to call our own today. This liberal radical left wing ideology is the most dangerous thing to Armenians. It will be our end. No one is attempting to be less than Armenian we are Armenian first before anything but we are also white in other white countries. We are not victims. Everywhere we go we are successful as a group. We make the most monkey we are the most educated and are not oppressed by the “white devil” this leftist racists keep pushing. It’s a dangerous game this identity politics. It’s group think mentally and if Armenians keep this up it will end bad for us.

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   • My family emigrated from a post-soviet state to a first world EU country. As a kid, I was treated like an emigrant, an other, even though the country’s language was in fact my native tongue, so it had nothing to do with bearing an accent. We even changed our Armenians name to avoid assualts or discrimination. I have faced discrimination, but most of it was of a systemic nature. Being an immigrant from a poor country often makes you vulnerable to all kinds of issues. Please be a little more thoughtful when making such statements. I won’t even go into the whole “white” debate, but want it to be known that this is bullshit.

10. I am sad to read this kind of “article” on the weekly. It is a waste of time, divisive, and accomplishes nothing. Nor did I “learn” anything from it. In fact the opposite. (Will explain this below). But this is typical of the self-defeating leftist mentality that is spreading in the USA and Europe (compliments of guess who) like a disease. There are claims that liberalism and leftism is a mental illness, and sorry, more and more I am inclined to believe this.

    I want to touch upon the line from above: “Whiteness is just a construct”. So Ms Ter Taulian, you make this claim and also claim that “White Privilege” exists. So which is it? Do you not see the self-defeating, contradictory argument you are trying to make? And you want “people of color” to be proud of who they are and fight for their rights, but not Europeans? Seriously?

    For your information, you have fallen victim to a misinformation campaign by a vile, pseudo-scientific force that has taken hold in colleges and social circles in the USA. In particular, the claim is “race is a social construct” which is where I’m guessing where your claim came from. They have taken this outrageous lie and with bold audacity spread their propaganda.

    Regarding this, I will only say this, without spilling the beans as to what force is exactly behind this. I will let the reader make their own informed decision. One of the so-called “scholars” who pushes this BS is of a certain “ethnicity”. And of course he claims that “race is a social construct” (as it applies to everyone else) – except that the ethnicity to which he belongs is “unique” and “special” and therefore not a “social construct” but with clearly defined DNA.

    You as Armenians can either engage in that “suicidal for you but not for them” cult, or reject it and fight against it if you want to preserve your own heritage. I choose the latter. The choice is yours.

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11. kirk,

    Exactly what do you mean when you say, “We make the most monkey”? Are you actually suggesting that the Armenian people are monkeys?

    In terms of Armenia’s geography, I would highly suggest that you head over to your local bookstore to purchase a world geography book, which will render you the opportunity to discover exactly which continent Armenia is located in. If Armenia is a European country as you foolishly claim, then that would automatically mean that Turkey is a European country. So, whether you like it or not, Armenia is not and has never been a European country; Armenia is a West Asian country. As for the Armenian language, it’s an Indo-European language, which has absolutely nothing to do with being a “European language”.

    In terms of culture, you are really degrading the Armenian culture by labeling it as “European”. The Armenian culture is nowhere close to being like German culture or French culture or British culture or Spanish culture or Italian culture or Polish culture or Dutch culture, etc. In my opinion, the Armenian culture is much higher than the Europeans; furthermore, the Armenian culture happens to be thousands of years older than the Europeans.

    In terms of being “White”, if you really desire so much to be from the “White race”, then go right ahead and be “White”. On the other hand, those Anglo-White supremacists will never accept you as being “White”. As a matter of fact, in greater Los Angeles (which contains the 2nd largest Armenian population of any city in the world), Armenians are certainly not viewed as being “White”; they are viewed as being “Middle Eastern”.

    So again, just because a person has white skin, does not automatically make him or her “White”. There are many Latinos out there who have white skin; do they view themselves as being “White”? Hell no! There are even African-Americans out there who have white skin; do they view themselves as being “White”? Hell no!

    “You are not a ‘POC'”.

    When did I ever say that I was a “POC”? Once again, I have no desire to belong to any particular “color group”. In other words, I do not belong to the “White group”, “Black group”, “Brown group”, “Yellow group”, “Red group”, or any other “color group”. I view myself as being only one thing, and that’s Armenian. That’s good enough for me, and it should be good enough for every single Armenian on this planet.

    “Throughout history our oppressors were not from ‘white people’ but were from Muslims and Turks who almost completely wiped us out”.

    Well, just like you, the Turks also view themselves as being “White”. Furthermore, the White Germans were the backbone of the 1915 genocide that the Ottoman Turkish Empire inflicted upon the Armenians. As for the chief architect of the Armenian Genocide, Talaat Pasha, he happened to be a Donmeh Jew (more precisely, a Turkified Jew). On the other hand, the perpetrator of the Hamidian Massacres, from twenty years earlier, happened to be a Muslim Turk (Sultan Abdul Hamid).

    “America and Europe helped us tremendously”.

    Well, the “tremendous help” rendered by America and Europe certainly did not prevent the Ottoman Turkish government from successfully wiping out the entire Armenian population of the six Western Armenian provinces. America, very easily, could have stopped the Armenian Genocide within the first month without even using any kind of military force against the Ottoman Turkish Empire. With the exception of Germany, it was America who was the Ottoman Turks’ only other friend, providing them with large amounts of guns and ammunition. And even when the first World War ended with a defeated and powerless Ottoman Turkish Empire, what did America and its European allies do to help the Armenian Nation obtain its justice? The answer is nothing; instead, they provided a massive amount of help to the Turks in rebuilding their “country”, which led to the formation of a new country by the name of “Turkey”. America and its European allies, didn’t even attempt to stop Kemal Ataturk when he attempted to finish off Eastern Armenia. Exactly what sort of “tremendous help” is that supposed to be?

    And the only reason why there is an Armenia today (only ten percent of the overall Armenian homeland), is because, for its own survival, it had no choice whatsoever other than to become a Soviet republic, back in 1920.

    “We are not victims”.

    Well, whether you like it or not, until the day that our long-overdue justice is rendered to us (either by peaceful means or violent means, which therefore translates to the concept of “by any means necessary”), we will therefore continue to remain victims of severe human rights abuse.

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12. This article is perfect and should be shown to all the Armenian youth in America. We have to separate ourselves from being put into a certain race. There is so much that distinct Armenians from being “white” or any other race. Those that are saying stop “playing” the victim you should be ashamed and maybe go to Armenia tell the starving kids to stop playing victim. Do you think the U.S government gives a fuck about Armenians? The U.S government and Turkey are #1 allies. This is a perfect example of “jermag chart” White Genocide.

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    • If your in a room with actual POC you will be seen as white. I don’t know when everyone wanted to start claiming their not white but stop it.

13. I’ve noticed the discussion in the comments pertaining to the state of being White (European) or a lack thereof, concerning Armenians.

    The “White” term is a tad dubious on its’ own, not only because of the socio-political loadedness attached to it presently but because of its’ insufficiency in communicating what its’ actually really meant to.
    It seems to have sprung more from the Americas, though it did catch on with Continental Europeans and those in the wider Anglosphere, as interaction with non-European peoples changed pace.
    I think people used the term because it’s slightly more simple than saying European – and the issue began to develop of children born to these new territories who were of wholly European parentage/descent, and because terms were needed that distinguished between the “Red man” (and later the Asians and Africans) and the Europeans, but that overcame the separateness of the various European peoples back on the Continent.
    It was likely appealing to the indigenous peoples also, as they would have been able to tell a difference between the peoples based on their accents/languages, flags, and certain trading deals, but they would have broadly seemed callous and, considering things such as the indigenous peoples’ spiritual relationship with their natural world, the Europeans must have all seemed of the same barbarity.

    So, the term ‘white’ made pragmatic sense in those times, being descriptive, though it is a different thing considering it prescriptively – and, the situations in the Americas, Australia, and New Zealand were absolutely situations of stark contrast between the peoples; there had not been inter-mixing, and so no grey area had to be considered and/or contended with definitionally.

    On a side note, someone mentioned the idea about Italians not being considered white… there were a very small few individuals who didn’t consider the Italians “White”, but it was not a strong and prevailing attitude as is implied by many folks who bring up the Italians when looking to discredit the notion of, ‘White’.
    The Irish, too, are brought up, and often those pictures are circulated of the Irishmen depicted as being ape-like, and comparisons to Negroes who were also considered ape-like are made, etc.
    If they truly weren’t considered ‘White’, they wouldn’t have been able to become US citizens at the time, with the laws dictating that only ‘free whites of good character’ may become naturalized/become citizens.
    So already, we know that Italians and Irish were considered ‘White’.
    So, why then would such attitudes questioning their ‘legitimacy’ have existed? Well, some people are just divisive, but likely the culprit would have been religion and culture/lifestyle.
    The US and the Anglosphere were/are Pan-European, but the culture was W.A.S.P; white anglo-saxon protestant.
    The Catholic/Protestant rivalry was still a thing, so Catholics showing up to a Protestant society which was intended to be an alternative Europe? Instead of civil wars on a continental scale, they were mocked, questioned, etc.
    There were the added cultural differences, with the Irish particularly being renowned for being drunkards, which was seen to be ghastly and unbecoming – to the minds of the folks of that time, non-“White” behaviour, and so, “Are they REALLY white?” follows. The Italians were close-knit, trusting themselves first, and so it would have been easy to look at them as outsiders.
    Mediterranean Europeans had a different approach to the work-day, also, and it was less like the Protestant work ethic – taking a long noon – afternoon lunch with family and friends during the hottest part of the day – though that turned out not to really carry over, at least as far as i’ve been able to find.

    So, it’s because of things like this that the term will give the impression of lacking any legitimacy to modern folks, though it made sense in that time.
    However, while it is clearly an out-of-date and insufficient term, the thing it was trying to communicate is, of course, legitimate, and now that we have more in the way of knowledge and history etc, we can determine what’s what.
    To relate this back to the disputing sides re: Armenians’ being white or not:
    as a group, they’re not. Whites are called Caucasians, and that too muddies the waters, so it ought to be discontinued.
    The Armenians – and remember we’re not talking generally, as we have to with groups, like many of the peoples in the Caucasus, somewhat mixed up between Arabic, Iranian/Persian, different Turkic groups – not necessarily THE Turks, Jews, Azeris, Slavic and European admixtures.
    Culturally and geographically, they and the Georgians are Eurasian, seeing as there aren’t natural borders but socio/geo-political ones between Europe and Asia, and this region is the borderland to both. Christianity pulled them towards Christendoms’ sphere of influence, historically, and Georgians, it seems, do identify themselves with Europe a fair bit, but they are not White Europeans.
    Armenians are Armenians, or for a wider lens, Caucasians (or central Asians).

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14. I have literally never seen anyone more confused than this author. You are white but you are not white? You cringe when people say that you are white and believe that somehow links you to past U.S. slave owners? Your very own people were murdered during a genocide committed by the Turks (i.e. non-whites) and yet you somehow grew up with white guilt and believe that “white” people are responsible for all atrocities???

    BTW: Speaking of slavery, slavery still exists in the world today. here are the top offending countries. I do not see any primarily “white” countries making this list but hey you go ahead and keep on living with your “white guilt”.

    https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/these-5-countries-58-worlds-slaves/

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    • exactly, we cant change history, what our ancestors did (not mine personally but some europeans) was cruel and its not our fault, we shouldn’t have to feel guilt because some people are racist enough to blame us for our ancestors’s past mistakes and barbaric acts. White europeans WERE NOT the only ones to have committed barbaric acts and in fact, a lot of us were massacred, colonized and mistreated but you never see someone talking trash about muslims or arabs or any other pocs to have committed genocidal acts, but thats liberal americans for u.

    • THANK YOU

15. Clark Gable, Jean Toomey, many people passed for white and are still passing. What does that say about whiteness?

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    • I knew the world was upside down when Armenians claim all Turks are dark. That they want to be Anglo Saxons, and are won over by a term Caucasian where the Russians call black. That they use the term Aryan which comes from India and Iran, and are busy not accepting that millions black Americans are whiter than they are and are still classified black, and what great contributions have Armenians made to the USA compared to the black Americans who were always MARGINALISED? How many writers, poets, millionaires, scientists, musicians, INVENTORS, INTELLECTUALS? It seems to me despite your legalised whiteness, there isn’t much going for you. How many Miles Davies? How many Archie Shepps? How many Maya Angelous, Tony Morrisons? It seems to me you have benefitted from the parasites of America who are like fleas on the Labour of black people, and now feel that you are in a position to deny some Turks who may be light enough to pass, your parasitic misunderstanding of social construct called whiteness.

16. My son who is black and white is constantly being asked if he’s adopted by his classmates because I’m Black. His response, if my mom wasn’t black, I wouldn’t have that exotic look. My Italian friend is from Italy had a DNA test and he’s %20 African. I don’t understand whites are claiming people who are obviously not %100. What exactly are you afraid of? Stop the madness.

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17. Please read up on the difference between race and ethnicity. Armenians are a white race. Their culture and ethnicity is Armenian. Never have I, or any other Armenian I know, been mistaken for any other race. Yes we ARE white without question but would we be accepted into any white supremacist group? No, and that’s a good thing! Talk about our culture, talk about the genocide too if you want but not at the expense of denying our own race. Our race is part of our ethnicity after all. Because of the current political climate many white people act ashamed of being white (this includes many ethnicities, not just Armenian) and it is a sad sad thing.

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18. If you look white, you’re white.

    Call yourself whatever you want, I have seen your photo and you’re and will always be white.

    As a Jewish person, I also have many extremely liberal people in my community who are delusional and try and claim to be non whites.

    Reality is that at the end of your day your culture or history of persecution is not what defines whiteness, it’s your skin color and other superficial features that people strangers and friends alike see.

    Your entire rational for being a person of color is just childish tripe that academia slings to their impressionable students, totally unrealistic and devoid of common sense.

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    • Uh, are you like…stupid? What does

      “If you look white, you’re white.”

      even mean. There are many Latinos and Asians out there that have light skin, and they’re not
      white. So get your facts straight, check the links yourself.

      Asians:

      https://www.google.com/search?q=Asians&safe=strict&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS880US880&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji6rD92bbnAhVCqZ4KHS5ECYEQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1536&bih=722

      Latinos:

      https://www.google.com/search?q=Latinos+&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj_k-yc2rbnAhVNlJ4KHazGAMgQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Latinos+&gs_l=img.3..0l10.54937.54937..55211…0.0..0.64.64.1……0….1..gws-wiz-img.3Qx_M00ND3k&ei=Z8M4Xr_EAs2o-gSsjYPADA&bih=722&biw=1536&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS880US880#imgrc=KqqP9lw-lTFtUM

      And no I am not agreeing with this article so don’t go off on me.

19. At the risk of sounding offensive, this article doesn’t prove your point.

    To be considered a “Person of Colour” in the USA, a history of systematic and institutional discrimination is the experience that defines your ethnic/religious/cultural group. Africans, Mestizos, and Indigenous people are the only groups that have experienced that kind of oppression.

    Armenians and Levantines did not face that. The social discrimination faced by Armenians was more similar to other “White Ethnics” such as Italians, Greeks, Ashkenazi Jews, Poles, Slovaks, and other ethnicities.

    I am not sure why so many Armenians are obsessed with being “POC” in the USA. It is not our experience and will never be either.

    One last thing, in reply to the person with the username Zu, Armenians in the Soviet Union did not describe themselves as “White” because it is not a term used outside of Australia, America, or Canada. The naturalization of Armenians in 1909, as you described, proves that Armenians, like Levantines, were classified as White and did not face any institutional or systematic oppression.

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20. You’re white like I’m white. Don’t embarrass yourself and don’t appropriate the struggles of POCs. My granddad was a refuge of the Armenian Genocide like your family. Just because people of a different nation decided to murder our ancestors en-masse doesn’t make us black or brown. The genocide was politically and religiously motivated, it wasn’t racially motivated. Our ancestors are white, one of the oldest white tribes in existence. Not being Northern European doesn’t make us less so. You live with full benefits of white privilege. We don’t face systemic oppression and you’ll never be denied a job because of your skin colour, you won’t be shot in your driveway because of your skin colour. You won’t get a harsher sentence because of your skin colour. Feeling othered, displaced and disconnected does’t give you the right to plead for racial minority status.

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    • As an Armenian growing up in CA in the 70’s and 80’s, I was told by “white” people that I am not “white.” And now, living in WA, people tell me I am “white.” So, what do I learn from this? Did I change color somewhere along the line? And now in replies to this article, some of you are insisting I am, and some that I am not. Aside from the fact that my pure Armenian dad had dark skin and hair and my pure Armenian Mom had auburn hair and blue eyes. Aside from the fact that in high school, people used to ask my sister if she was half black because of her hair and my brother looks hispanic when he’s been in the sun, but my other sister is pink and rosy cheeked, and my nephew (with my brother’s pure Armenian wife) is decidedly brown no matter what time if year it is, my genetic testing tells me I’m from haplogroup x… but no one in the street knows what that is. They just see me and tell me “you’re white” “you’re not white.” But to those who say they were helped by Europeans, my grandmother who lived through the genocide and ended up in Syria told me that the Europeans often incited mini massacres on Armenian neighborhoods in Aleppo as a way to justify their political presence in Syria, and she would thus always spit in the dirt when the British came up in conversation…We all have our own history don’t we.

21. So race is just a social construct, yet this author, as an Armenian, expresses solidarity with women of colour against white supremacy? Can you lefties be any more dumb?

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22. Diane, there is a difference between skin colour and phenotype. Asians with light skin do not pass as Caucasoid, while Armenians, Levantines, Persians, etc. do pass as racially Caucasoid. Some Latinos are purely of European ancestry, so they are White. Others are more racially Black or Indigenous, so they do not pass as White and are thus not classified as such.

    The comment made above yours makes sense.

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23. Funny how so many Armenians are ashamed of being Middle Eastern. We pride ourselves with ancient culture and our Holy mountain Ararat of which we claim to be descendants of.
    I didn’t know that Ararat was located in Europe.

    Unfortunately, this is Armenian problem of being Christian Middle Easterners who’s ancient culture goes back to ties with Assyrians, Hattites, Sumerians and Parthians. I guess all of those ancient NEAR EASTERN people are European.

    Soviet Union did a great job brainwashing some Armenians to believe they’re European and white even though an average Armenian resembles an Iranian, Turk, or an Arab.

    I’d like for Europeans, Asians and Africans to listen to traditional Armenian music or eat our tradition food without knowing what they’re eating or listening to and guess where the music or food is from because 99% of the time the answer will be MIDDLE EAST.

    Armenians are Middle Eastern Christian, no less no more!

    Get over your wish of being white because Armenians, Iranians, Turks, and Lebanese are NOT white nor will ever magically become part of the White Europe.

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    • Nobody brainwashed us. We don’t claim to be European, but we are not Middle Eastern. That term was invented by the British to create a Pan-Arabist identity. Armenians who obsess over their “Middle Eastern” identity are those who want to appear more unique and exotic because of a warped way of discussing race that emerged in the past decade. Second of all, a Turk can look Armenian, Greek, Slavic, Balkan, or Syriac because it is not a real Turkic nation.

      Stop projecting your insecurity on to us. We are West Asian, but not Middle Eastern.

    • You must not know many Armenians because Armenians look nothing like Arabs or Iranians, Arabs Iranians and most Turks are much darker in skin color and look completely different, Armenians have been genetically isolated and belong to an Ancient Armenian/European r1B haplogroup, besides that Armenians are closest genetically to Laz Georgians Pontic Greeks Udis Ossetians Abkhazians and former Caucasian Albanians, and not related to Iranians or Arabs lol

      Also, Armenia was never part of the “middle east” and shares nothing with the middle east today, The Armenians are an ancient people native to the Highland Mountains of the Caucuses, genetically very distinct from any middle eastern population,

      the problem is some Western Armenians who grew up in Arab/Middle Eastern countries try to identify as middle eastern since they picked up Arab culture and identity, but Armenians from Armenia and anywhere else are nothing like them and have retained their true culture for the most part. Iranians, for the most part, look very different from Armenians they are darker and look Pakistani/Iranoid rare Iranians with pale skin like Armenians are from northern parts of Iran (which used to be Armenia) and even then they are darker and look middle eastern while Armenians have a distinct Caucasian/Armenian look, Ancient Armenian Architecture Ancient Armenian Alphabet Ancient Indo European language closely related to Greek and Balto Slavic all nothing to do with the “middle east”. The only Turks that look Armenian are the ones with Balkan, Greek and Armenian genetics… and those Turks can pass for white.. this is the problem with some Armenians they don’t even know who Armenians are yet open their mouths and speak for us…

    • I am part Georgian, and I would even go so far as to say no Caucasian (from the Caucasian mountain region) person is truly White, as for the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union and Nowdays Russia call all of us (Azeri, Armenian, Tschetschen, Ingush, Circassian, etc.) “Blackarse” and “churka”. They never see us as truly Russian, even if we are born in Russia, even if we have a citizenship (some people are nice to you, some are not), if you are Christian and look more Slavic it is easier, if you look more dark (arabic, or Persian looking) it is harder for you. Again never really truly White. Some Western European Countries are not aware of WHAT people from the Caucasus truly are, that is when they ascribe us to the state we have a citizenship in and see us as “White” (again if we, like myself, do not have too many Middle Eastern features, if we have, I have written to people who have, it becomes more problematic even there.)
      The problem of being Called Middle Eastern is to me personally is that some people do not have enough Middle Eastern features, to experience the full scope of racism that Middle Eastern people face. Same goes for Islam. In Europe for example Muslim people face a whole more racism than Christian people do. Also because of religion there is a lot of tension, between Arabic, Iranian, Azeri and North Caucasian people, and Armenian and Georgian because they are Christian and Georgians want to be European arguing they can be because they are Christian.

      The problem with being called White, especially in the USA (I live in an European country currently, where that kind of thinking begins to hold place too), is that is not only about the looks and being free of racial profiling (Current White priviledge), it becomes also a category of history, where Whiteness, as the poem has pointed out, is connected to Slavery and/or colonialsm. Some online activists start saying “Caucasity” when they speak about Western European colonialism, which the Caucausus was not involved into, (let alone that Circassians were Slaves in the Ottoman empire, Georgians were forcibily taken to Iran and Turkey, Circiassians were murdered by the Russian empire, the Caucasus was occupied by Imperial Russia and so on), and Slavery (again the Caucausus in and by itself (other than Arabic people) was not active in that. And generally imply that because people, like Armenians, Georgians, Azeris, yes, even Slavs who were not involved in African Slavery, other than through relations with the Ottoman empire, look White (from a Black persons perspective mind me, because ask a Slavic Russian (in terms of Caucasians), or an European White supremacists (Slavs were considered subhuman in the Nazi ideology) and they will give you a different answer), have the same responsibility for Slavery and Colonialism as the Colonial powers, which is wrong and hurtful for people who have experienced a very different history.

      And so it is difficult to find the right identification.

    • Greek music also sounds Middle Eastern, does that make them non-European? LMAO

      Armenians are Orthodox Christians like Greeks, Russians, Copts. The point has nothing to do with being European or “white”. There is no magical barrier which instantly makes Europe and non-Europe instantly distinguishable. European-ness is based in religion as well as other factors.

      And by the way, yes MANY Turks and Arabs are white. That is simply their race – the hatred espoused towards them is a result of their religious and political standpoint, nothing to do with what they look like. White is your appearance, nothing more.

24. I relate to this so hard….

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25. I see myself as white, I really can’t see myself as anything, but white.
    I’m also not complete native to the Caucasus, since I’m mixed between Azeri and Western European. I can see that people from Armenia is angered with people from Azerbaijan, that something I just recently learned. I had no idea that some people on my side of the family went after someone else to massacre them. Probably not the right place to post this. But I still see myself as white, I’m not exactly dark skinned lol.

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26. Sorry to break it to you Armenians who don’t want to be white, You are, and nothing can change that. I’ve been to Armenia and lived around many Armenians and I can say without a doubt that Armenians are white. you have to be delusional to think otherwise

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    • Ha! Good point.

27. Rita, you’re right about the British abandoning us, but the Arabs were no better. The Bedouins in the Arabian region bought and sold Armenian women. The Kurds helped Turks attack and rob us of our wealth. The French and Russians, along with the Americans, certainly helped us on the ground in a variety of ways. So yes, we all do have our own history. What was the case for your ancestors certainly was not the case for mine.

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28. All this people are mediocre and immature. Many armenians have light skin colour, blue/green eyes, red/light brown hair, so they are WHITE, the rest may have dark eyes or dark brown hair but they have white skin as well, and don’t forget that armenians are mixed with turkish/iranian people, in the past they were with red hair and blue eyes, so armenians are WHITE, stop telling myths and BS, armenians are CAUCASIAN

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    • In history our people have always stayed in one place and didn’t really mix so we have more ‘ethnic’ features like the indo-europeans (ancient) but Armenians are very diverse looking since a lot appear arab/middle eastern or latino but me and my family do not. my nephew literally has red hair and hazel eyes and very pale skin with freckles but me on the other hand am olive skinned, dark hair and dark eyes (I used to have lighter brown hair but it darkened over the years). Americans expect all Europeans to fit ONE beauty standard and that we all look the same, blonde hair and blue eyed, red headed because liberal pocs convinced themselves that all white people and Europeans have rare beauty and liberated Armenians are just racist and DESPERATE that they literally try to wash away our identity and try to claim us as a part of a group who has tried to ethnically cleanse us FOR CENTURIES because of our religion and dont even recognize the genocide even tho arab countries have one of THE biggest Armenian communities who basically helped build their country. I personally am a democrat but NOT a liberal nor conservative, I used to identify as a liberal or leftist until I learned how disgusting those people actually are that praise pocs and other white trash for saying racist stuff to white tiktokers or anyone just not being ignorant to white people in general just because we have ‘white privilege’ WITHOUT considering that a lot of white Europeans have faced GENOCIDE, oppression and occupation. Also for anyone saying that we’re related to Kurds PLEASE get your brain checked “More specifically, Armenians are close to (1) Spaniards, Italians, and Romanians from Europe; (2) Lebanese, Jews, Druze, and Cypriots from the Near East; and (3) Georgians and Abkhazians from the Caucasus” literally copy and pasted (also I think they forgot to mention Greeks since a lot of them migrated to the Armenian highlands during the byzantine empire and a lot of them probably mixed also a lot of their leaders were of Armenian descent.

29. I never understood why so many Armenian leftists (almost always leftists) insist on appropriating some sort of visible minority status for the sake of piggy-backing on the oppression band-wagon. It’s almost like they’ve internalised this marxist dialectic thinking which stratifies suffering on an intersectional racial-to-gender axis in order to permit themselves a guilt-free reflection of their trauma.

    This should be obvious, but POC (or a WOC) minority-status is not a prerequisite for legitimate recognition of your people’s suffering. Not all brown people are victims of systemic atrocity, and some white people actually are (by both other white people and POCs). A legacy of systemic discrimination doesn’t a POC-make, nor do POCs maintain a monopoly on victimhood to systemic discrimination.

    This isn’t liberal arts college, it’s real life.

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30. The vast majority of Armenians are white, to claim Armenians are not white is being delusional. To any actual “POC” Armenians are plain old white people with ethnic vibes just like any other ethnic white person outside of the angloworld, some of the whitest girls ive ever seen in my life have been in Armenia when traveling. White as in the actual color of someone’s skin pale and that was extremely common. Men who tend to stay more indoors had the same pale complexion. Armenians are definitely white, but these days even Germans are trying to be anything other than white. I guess it’s a trend, the less white you are the more cool points you get? It’s crazy. White is also a social construct in a way but it gets so deep but whatever the case may be it doesn’t change the fact that you’re people are white.

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31. Shawn,the whitest girls you’ve seen in Armenia were likely Russian/Slavic women who assimilated in Armenian culture. Most Armenians (myself included) look somewhat like average Mexican people. It is very rare to see someone like fighter Artur Aleksanyan in Armenia and diaspora. There is nothing anti-white or anti-European about that. It is a fact. Having said that, Europeans should not be demonized and should be left alone. Especially the ones who are not liberal. They have a right to this just like any other group in the world. They did help us out and are NOT our enemies. But that does not mean we are white or European. We are simply Armenian, not POC or middle eastern either. This makes us special and unique. I am so fed up with our people trying to ‘belong’ to a category when in fact Armenians do not belong to any. We are like Indians in that sense. Just be Armenian, and no one will blame you for that matter.

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    • West Asian at the least.

32. For those who say this article is trash and garbage.
    Based on the amount of very valuable information I’ve learned from reading the comments, comments from people on both sides of the argument, I think it’s a very useful, important article and it points to the struggle we have in defining ourselves in society today. I hope we can find a more patient willingness to listen to other points of view.

    Struggling with our identity this way – especially at this time – seems really valuable in my opinion. After all, it CAN be confusing. We are somewhat a blend of both the dominant culture (we look odar, we can assimilate) and we can also identify with the oppressed and what other minorities have been through. (Personally, I’m confused by comments that say we never had problems from ‘white’ people. Huh? Here in Canada we have been unwelcomed as immigrants until quite recently. And when my mother moved here to Canada she was treated like a second class citizen – discriminated against in wages and job promotions, called names, ostracized. So I take a bit of offense at those people who make it sound so rosy here).

    Above all, I ask my Armenian brothers and sisters to debate with respect and kindness. THAT is our heritage…a lineage with many great thinkers and intellectuals who were extinguished in 1915. Let us bring back their light. By rising to the best in ourselves. By NEVER practicing “lateral violence” with slanderous insults and belittling of each other.

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33. You are Near Eastern. Perhaps not middle eastern. Forget that debate for now. But you are part of West Asia for sure. Greeks are also rooted in west asia despite being in Europe. Eastern Europe is not western. The farthest expanse westwards of eastern cultures is eastern europe with Greece being an offshoot of the Near East. Armenians are literally in West Asia. Every aspect of your culture, history is evidence of your eastern roots. Being in the U.S.S.R. points toward an eastern geography. Eastern europeans are also eastern, non western, but are not West Asian (aside from Greece in its roots) as you are. Understand the nuances.

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34. Abrahamic culture is eastern let us not forget. No more ridiculous notions about this topic should be espoused. Georgians, Chechnians, Ingush and Dahestanis are also Near Eastern, West Asian though they are not middle eastern.

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35. I understand Armenians who do not wish to be classified as White. I also understand Armenians who do wish to be in that category as well.

    However, I have noticed that the Armenians who claim Whiteness erases Armenian heritage are also quick to describe themselves as POC or Middle Eastern, two terms that are broad and quite confusing. These also undermine Armenian heritage because they force Armenians to capitulate to the interest groups of these coalitions that do not have our best interests at heart.

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36. she really called asians, natives, latinas and africans her sisters. we were killed for our RELIGION, by a NON WHITE, MULSIM country. Being a subject of genocide does not make you a person of color, because that would mean that Bulgarian, Greeks and Serbians are POC. I think that deep down we all know that POCs are ‘the winning team’ since they can say all the racist shit they want about us Europeans, without trying to COMPREHEND THE FACT THAT EUROPEANS WERE COLONIZED AND OPRESSED ASWELL. Do you think white immigrants from europe came to the US or Canada for fun? NO, THEY WERE OPPRESSED, THEY RAN FROM THEIR MOTHERLAND BECAUSE OF OPPRESSION. An ETHNIC minority and a RACIAL minority are different. Armenians are an ETHNIC minority just like any other white, non-american (Polish, Finnish, Bulgarian etc..) ethnicities. Im an Armenian and never in my life have I ever and will never consider myself or any other Armenian a person of color, because you guys are calling us ‘desperate’ for trying to be white so bad. I am white, you are white, middle eastern is not a race, it is a region, you are not musim, you are not arab, or black, latino, and ESPECIALLY not asian, so stop this crap because it’s damaging to ACTUAL pocs.

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37. Just a comment from a non-Arm Italian American who traveled to Arm in 2019–Lots of the Armenians we met thought I WAS Armenian and not my husband who is swarthy with thick black hair and brown eyes. Why? Because my nose is more pronounced. Just a non-Armenian who’s daughter looks just like her dad, I think Arms are Caucasian and this author educated at UC Berk, like many of today’s educated youth, are just jumping on band wagon that will end destroying ALL of our cultures. She needs to channel her anger. What did we do, we donate l, our daughter did Birthright and we read read read. Yes the Germans Americans did nothing stop and may helped the Turks commit this genocide but we have to live in the times we are in now. Armenia is a developing country and anger like this invites radicalism… Just my 2 cents

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38. What are these comments?
    ”I’M sOrRY, bUt yOu aRe wHiTE”- How uneducated and delusional do you have to be to comment this? Armenians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, etc are all CAUCASIANS.
    Caucasian doesn’t mean white, the term was colonized by a German pseudo-scientist because he thought Caucasians (People from the Caucasus) we’re the ”most beautiful race”. Calling Europeans ‘Caucasian’ is unconsciously supporting white supremacy. Also, Armenians AREN’T WHITE. They are West Asian. I was a participant in a big Armenian study group and what almost all of the Armenian DNA showed is basically that we are indigenous natives to the Near East (Middle East) and our closest genetic cousins are Assyrians, Turks and Northern Iranians. If you don’t believe me search up European PCA map. Armenians are genetically, culturally, and linguistically West Asian. Most Armenians don’t even look ”european”, or get treated like ”europeans”. People only recognize Armenians as white when its convenient for them and their white supremacy. They just want to classify us as white to justify exploiting and terrorizing us. WE ARE WEST ASIAN. Not white. Stop trying to rip away our identity, and invalidate our experiences.

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39. In the U.S., Armenians are legally White. It’s the race that shows up on your criminal record, and it’s the race that you select when you get a new job and have to fill out those I-9 forms. By claiming to be “non-White,” you’re both (a) lying and (b) using victimhood as fashion.

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40. Yep. That sums it up.

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41. I know this is an old discussion, but this makes me GLAD that I’m a BROWN-SKINNED African-American man!! This IS NOT a coincidence in the post-Obama age!!

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