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Hitler, Ataturk, and German-Turkish Relations
An Interview with Stefan Ihrig
Special for the Armenian Weekly
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Thank you for the very insightful interview. In my readings about German involvement in Turkey, I came across information about how the Germans were spying on the Armenians, for Abdul Hamid, throughout the Ottoman Empire. Also, that to placate the sultan, almost nothing was written in German newspapers about the Hamidian massacres. When Abdul Hamid’s rule came to an end, he happily turned over all of the information to Talaat that was gathered by German spies. I certainly will be buying Stefan Ihrig’s book because of this interview conducted by Edward Kanterian.
Sincerely,
Ellen Sarkisian Chesnut
Author: “Deli Sarkis”
The only differences between Turks and Germans is their mentality of today’s way of thinking…Germans accepted the wrong policy of Hitler, where today’s Turkey can’t abandon the reality of Jihadism and Islamic radicalism.
Turkey created a new Islamofascism regime like AKP ruling party, where most Middle Eastern dictatorial Islamic countries have same common ideology!
Its so sad Armenians think the AKP party is a threat or in any way Islamofascist. Armenians are gonna get a shock if the secularist party ever gets in. Have we forgoten who controls the military, who set the military to overthrow a possible islamist ideology. Ata Turk. Erdogan is an angel compared to what can come about in Turkey. Thanks to Erdogan we have article 301 lifted to a certain extent. We have the military secularists in jail and more democracy than ever, he also has apologized for what happened. Lets if any other party can move Turkey forward like this…
Well maybe I will add for your information that radical islamisme is the fruit of USA and EU and Israel’s hardwork result. When you talk about corrupted regimes of islamic countries, they are welcome when it comes to signing conratcts with them. so choose your government well before you advise otherwise to others !
Ataturk wasn’t about jihadism and radical islam, he created a secular Turkey, which is now indeed being broken down by the AK Party.
In the 18th century Great Britain was Super power and did so much barbarism on its occupied nations,In the 19th century Germany and Soviet union were super powers and did so much barbarism in the world.In the 20th century USA is super power doing barbarism in Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan,Syria,Palestine,Iran which you cannot see and only focus on spreading Islamophobia which is main aim of today’s media.
I wonder if the bulk of the claims made here are supported by source material, for much seems unlikely, especially the allegation of a close connection between the Armenian and Jewish genocides. I wonder what the aim of Ihrig’s book is. Who was (or is) doing the “justifying genocide”? Why the all-encompassing title “Germany” when almost everything mentioned is actually “Hitler” or “Nazi”? There is no explanation or clarification about this gleamed from the interview. I also wonder how often that invented Hitler “quote” is going to be resurrected before it is finally buried for good.
The alleged “Jews of the Orient” German perception of Armenians in reality seriously misrepresents German intellectual perceptions of Armenians and Armenia. The reality was that pre-WW1 Germany considered Armenia to be a morally and intellectually exhausted nation (“moralisch entkräftet”) as a result of the centuries of domination by others. The fate of that Armenia (and of Armenians during the genocide) was, for a militaristic and still newly-created Germany, a lesson in history about what will ultimately and inevitably happen when one nation allows itself to be fragmented and dominated by another. This idea was widespread throughout Europe and America, and led to the shrug of the shoulders “yes it happened, but so what” response to the Armenian Genocide, as well as a sneaking admiration of the Turks for doing it so successfully. In the post-WW1 period this merged with Nazi ideology that a “survival of the fittest nation” conflict was natural and inevitable. Hitler considered German expansion and aggression to be not only natural but essential for Germany’s survival lest it end up like Armenia. Nothing in this is anti-Armenian. Nor is it narrowly justifying the Armenian Genocide, it is justifying genocidal acts by your own nation if they contribute to your own nation’s survival. The “great German genocide debate of the early 1920’s brings the whole matter within a mere decade of Hitler’s ascension to power” states Ihrig – but this is an doubly empty statement given the complete lack of detail in this interview about what that “debate” consisted of, and that in the early 1920s nobody considered that Hitler would ever ascend to any position of power.
The leading question by the interviewer that “not many German historians have researched the Armenian Genocide” (a claim that is obviously false), together with the implication that this is because Germans do not want to uncover more unpleasant truths about their own history, seems characteristic of someone with a preconceived agenda. And, like too much Armenian-produced material on the Armenian Genocide, it is a thesis that sadly parallels Turkish genocide-denial propaganda. The Turkish denialist thesis that is currently most in fashion in Turkey is that the Armenian Genocide is an invention by Christian countries like Germany, France, and Britain as a way of disguising or minimising (or “relativizing”, to use Ihrig’s terminology) their own past and ongoing crimes against Muslims.
“This idea was widespread throughout Europe and America, and led to the shrug of the shoulders “yes it happened, but so what” response to the Armenian Genocide, as well as a sneaking admiration of the Turks for doing it so successfully.”
Was this before WWII? Can you elaborate more than this? Who exactly was admiring the murderous work of the Turks?
While it’s important to get things right and back up arguments through good evidence, we’re not seeing much of this in your post any more than what’s in the article.
As for German’s researching the genocide, I know of at least 2. And one of them has said that a few young German born Turks have started researching too. Who do you know in Germany is seriously researching the genocide?
To go off on a tangent, one thing that I was reminded of in reading this article was the contrast between Turkey after WWI and genocide vs Germany after WWWII and their genocide. The difference is day and night. Germany did all the right things a nation can do after the crimes they committed after WWII and became a freer and more prosperous nation which openly atoned for their crimes. Turkey, not so much. And that is also the irony within Germany. A free and open Germany became the successful and prosperous nation that the Nazis thought they could achieve through death and destruction and conquest. Just goes to show that the path to peace and prosperity is not through war and hate and killing.
“The reality was that pre-WW1 Germany considered Armenia to be a morally and intellectually exhausted nation (“moralisch entkräftet”) as a result of the centuries of domination by others.”
Some people here like to “make up their own history” as they go along with their “fantasist ends”, all the while demanding “sources” from others while they spew nonsense. The rest of the silly opinion piece? “Meh”.
Here’s an idea, Steve: how about reading the book first, then telling everyone what you think of the writer’s ideas.
As for the “invented Hitler quote,” who do you think invented it and why? You seem to be the answer man, so do tell.
All extremely important points, since putting the greatest possible distance between 1915 and the Holocaust has been at the heart of AG denialism. As Ihrig informs us, with the genocide debates of the 1920s that distance is proved much shorter than some would have us imagine. All of which
casts the ECHR Grand Chamber’s recent verdict in the Perincek case in an even worse light.
I can not stand waiting to read this book! It is the very topic that is the focus of my study of the Armenian Genocide: The collusion of the German government, military, and corporations, with the “Young Turks” destructive, racist motives… I will insist that my public library buy it.
I suggest you people stop your nonsense about Hitler. Hitler died 70 years ago. He no longer has any impact on global politics. But the West does. Therefore, what you guys should instead concern yourselves about is the support Turkey has been getting from Western powers since the end of the Second World War. Turkey’s is the West’s buffer against Russia, Iran and the rise of pan-Arabism. Anyone that thinks the West will abandon Turkey is a fool.
The Incredible Turk (1958): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjySoi2PR0w
— Enemigos de los Armenios : Turquia Genocida Negacionista – Rusia Soguzgadora ( durante 69 años haciendo perder al pueblo su identidad, lenguaje y costumbres ) – Alemanie e Inglaterra Complices ( podrian haber intervenido para evitar el genocidio ) … Miguel Angel Nalpatian.- Mar del Plata.- Buenos Aires.- Rca. Argentina.-
Well answered and I agree totally.
How is it possible to disconnect the relentless drive for power, and the steady erosion of uniquely Christian principles of justice and mercy, from the question of German ‘war guilt’ as it concerns two major world conflicts? Granted, ‘for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God’, such that no belligerent party may be exculpated entirely. Nevertheless German guilt by association remains very real, not only with respect to betrayal of a nominally ‘Christian’ people exposed to generation after generation of mohammedan and Turkish misrule, but later also with respect to the victims of Japanese aggression. However enough of a residue of Christianity survived into the the epoch of the Federal Republic and the unified Germany of today, that active repudiation of this barbaric Wilhelmian/Hitlerian legacy is expected of any decent German and European. By sharp contrast, neither muslim Turks nor
heathen Japanese have any space in their vocabularies for the word ‘repentance’. In the end, racialist and ultranationalist politics are powerful satanic tools, making smooth the path to hell.
I’m from Germany and there is absolutely no doubt that Hitler knew in detail about the Armenian genocide. Check this article: http://www.meforum.org/3434/armenian-genocide-hitler
The main link is Max Erwin von Scheubner-Richter.