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Varak Ketsemanian
Varak Ketsemanian is a graduate of the American University of Beirut (AUB) and the University of Chicago’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies (2014-2016). His master’s thesis titled “Communities in Conflict: the Hunchakian Revolutionary Party 1890-1894” examines the socio-economic role of violence in shaping inter-communal and ethnic relations by doing a local history of the Armenian Revolutionary Movement in the Ottoman Empire. Ketsemanian’s work tackles problems such as the development and polarization of mainstream historiographies, inter-communal stratifications, nationalism, and the relationship of the Ottoman State with some of its Anatolian provinces. He is currently completing a PhD at Princeton University, where his doctoral dissertation will focus on the social history of the National Constitution of Ottoman Armenians in 1863, and the communal dynamics/mechanisms that it created on imperial, communal, and provincial levels. Ketsemanian’s research relates to the development of different forms of nationalism in the 19th and 20th centuries, revolutionary violence, and constitutional movements.
Latest posts by Varak Ketsemanian (see all)
- Memoirs of a Soldier: Bedros Haroian’s recollections of the Great War available in English - September 1, 2022
- Armenia a Century on: Lessons in Challenging the Status Quo - May 28, 2018
- The First Republic as Turning Point for the Armenian Nation: A Conversation with Professor Richard G. Hovannisian - May 28, 2018
Thanks for taking us to school, Varak. Very informative article. Keep up the good work.
Thank for this wonderful article. I have recently been trying to find out about the Kurds of Dersim as my father, his mother, sister and brother escaped from Kharpert through the mountains of Dersim. In his memoir, which we have just had transcribed, he talks about the underground escape route which the Kurds had organized. He remembers being puzzled by hearing what sounded like Armenian words spoken and having a feeling that some of these Kurds were actually Armenian. The journey was treacherous but the small family made it to the Russian border and to safety. Carolann Najarian
Good job Varak! “Ov vor katcheh inch gspaseh, arten zhamangneh togh kaah…”
This kid*sorry young man is brilliant.Should be encouraged…he may well be defined as a new come Armenian journalist comentator and then some.I shall refer to his post above later if i get time…
Saludos
A problem with this article is the oversimplified identification of the Dersimli as “Kurds”. There is actually no historical and very little ethnological evidence to support that “Kurd” label. In the 19th-century the word “Kurd” was used very loosely and mostly denoted a lifestyle rather than an ethnicity. Nowadays, Kurds aspire to political and cultural autonomy based on ethnicity, so it beholds us to use the term “Kurd” more accurately. Molyneux-Seel, mentioned as a source for this article, observed that the Zaza dialect spoken in Dersim is completely unintelligible to a Kurmanji-speaking Kurd. A generation earlier, Taylar reported the Dersim countryside to be full of the ruins of Armenian churches. The Dersimli are most likely the descendants of the region’s indigenous population that became “Armenian” and Christian when Armenia was the predominant power, then later evolved into the Muslim-Christian hybrid known as Kizilbash. The Kurds are not natives to the Dersim, and are historically recent incomers to most of the areas in Turkey that they now inhabit – so it is inappropriate to label the Dersimli as “Kurds”, regardless of the upset this truth might give to Kurdish “greater Kurdistan” irredentists.
You are wrong mate. I am from Dersim. We are Kurds – who have different religions. While Kurds see themselves as Kurds no matter if they are Sunni, Alevi, Yazidi, Jew or even Christian, the Armenians and Greeks are only define themselves as Christians and Turks only as Muslim.
And please do not come with the differeces between Dimli Kirmanci speaker and Kurmanci speaker. We are all Kurds. Please stop trying to “Armenize” us like Turks tried to “turkisize” us. If some Kurds want to be Armenian, its all fine. But please stop denying the Kurdish existence in Anatolia as they are living since at least in the time of the Medes around 800 BC in Anatolia as the Kurdish language belongs to the same language familiy like the Medes language belongs too.
Thank you. Kind regards, from a Dersimi person.
“In the 19th-century the word “Kurd” was used very loosely and mostly denoted a lifestyle rather than an ethnicity. Nowadays, Kurds aspire to political and cultural autonomy based on ethnicity, so it beholds us to use the term “Kurd” more accurately.”
.
Did you work for the Turkish government in the 1980s?
Steve, when you say:
“The Dersimli are most likely the descendants of the region’s indigenous population that became “Armenian” and Christian when Armenia was the predominant power”
What do you propose was the ‘indigenous’ population?
Let’s keep in mind the Turkish propagandist narrative: “In Antiquity Anatolia was home to many civilizations” – No it wasn’t. At least not as ‘distinctly’ different peoples, which in their version of history “the Turks are just another one of them, in a long line of many peoples.” i.e. “The Armenian Genocide wasn’t so bad after all” i.e. “The Turks deserve to be there just like anyone else despite having to do a Genocide on the indigenous population.”
Such “civilizations” in antiquity had kinship to one another which eventually forged two distinct peoples. Armenians in the east and Greeks in the west. Anatolia was no more full of civilizations than say the area which is considered present-day Germany prior to unification in 1871 of the German States.
As far as Kurds I also recall reading someplace that the Ottoman Empire settled Kurds in this region (western Armenia) as a result of conflict with Persia after which significant numbers of Armenians were forced into Persia as well as Constantinople (Istanbul) in the early 17th century.
By indigenous population I meant the first peoples to live in the Dersim region in a settled way. Dersim does not lie along trade routes or invasion routes and is somewhat cut off from the rest of the Armenian highlands (Dersim is not in Anatolia, it is just to the east of the eastern edge of Anatolia), so I think that once the region had a fixed, settled population it is reasonable to argue that that initial population would have remained there and is essentially still there. The drift of the population from Christianity to Islam would not have resulted in a major population change, and the massacres and deportations of the 1930s probably did not result in many new incomers. Such a long established population cannot be real ethnic Kurds (assuming such a thing exists) because Kurds are recent arrivals in an historical timescale. Classical sources speak of numerous distinct peoples living in Anatolia, each with their own states and cultures, but by the middle Byzantine period they are all just being called Greeks. This does not mean the original population left or died out, it just means they became willingly assimilated into the dominate culture of the time, the Christian Greek one. The same thing I think happened to the indigenous population in Dersim – only they became Armenians.
Steve:
{“cannot be real ethnic Kurds (assuming such a thing exists)”}.
What is the basis for you doubting that Kurds are a distinct, existing ethnos ?
They are classified to be Iranian people, like Lezgies, Talysh, etc, but the identification ‘Kurd’ has been around for several thousand years, as far as I know. Historically inhabiting Zagros Mountain range (to the best of my knowledge).
They may still be in the formative stage as a nation, and tribal identity appears to be stronger than national identity at this time.
But is there a scientific reason to doubt that “…such a thing
exists” ?
As good as this article is, the idea that the indigenous population of Dersim or most of eastern Anatolia being anything but Armenian is a bit fanciful. The earliest recorded peoples on that land, by virtue of the numerous ‘perts’ that dot the countryside, were the Urartians, aka, ancient Armenians. Of course, what were their predecessors called? I can be quite certain that the ancient inhabitants of the region were not Greeks, nor Kurds – who by the way, after several thousand years, never developed a written language of their own. Along with this, we need to remember that invaders, conquerors and empires washed over eastern Anatolia/Armenia for many millennia, but the natives clung to their soil both before and after, going back to well more than 10,000 years. The region has not been called the cradle of civilization for nothing…it is a very serious label that we need to embrace and develop with solid scholarship and science.
Thank you for a very informative article.
I now understand better my own experience when I visited our ancestral homeland in 1992. I spent a night in Terjan (now spelled Tercan on maps) and went to the local out-door bazaar the next morning. Many of these people looked sooo Armenian, so I asked one vendor (in public) where he was from. He said he was from “Ägri dag”. I immediately (and stupidly) followed with “Kurd me sen, ermeni me sen?” I saw an unexplainable worried-smirk on his face and he replied: El-hamdulillah, we are all muslims!
Parev, I’m the author of “Children of the Sun, Armenians and Alevis from Dersim”, published by Sigest Editions in french language. Just want to correct something you wrote in this article: “In the Islamic or Alevi culture, the usage of candles as religious symbols or items is absent.”
It’s not true to write that in Alevi culture the usage of candles is absent. Since a very long time, Alevis use candles in both pilgrimage (ziyaret) and community ceremony (cem). This due to the fact that Alevism in Dersim come from persian Mithraism, a religion and beliefs where fire and sun are omnipresent. Pagan armenians called “Arevordiks” also use candles and fire in religious cults. Alevis or “Kizilbash” were known as “terah sonderan” or “mum söndü” litterally “Those who switch off candles” cause during their secret ceremonies of Cem, there is one moment they switch off the 3 candles (Hakk (God), Muhammed, Ali). So the use of candles by Alevis is very well-known and not a sign of their Armenity. with kind regards from France. Erwan
Hi, as a child of Dersim, i would like to greet all. First of all I want to say to Steve that we have always seen ourselves as Kurds. The fact that Zaza and Kurmandshi sounds different and they don´t understand each other is normal, because none of the Kurdish dialects understands the otherone. Your thinking is the same as the turkish gov. they are trying to split the kurds arguments… To our Armenian friends, who had to flee at the time. I would like to say this: You are always welcome in OUR city we have been lived together for centuries.
Sinan K.
My great grandfather was a leader of an Armenian village in Dersim. The Muslims of Dersim were former Armenians. This is probably why they saved so many Armenians in 1915. The name “Dersim” comes from “Der Simon” who was an Armenian priest. He was burried in Derim. There is an Armenian book entitled “Badmoutium Charsanjakee Hayots”. In this book it also states that the Kurds of Dersim were former Armenians. There was a St. Garabed Monastery in Dersim (not to be confused with the one in Mush). On the named day of the saint the kurds would travel up to the monestary on their knees and would pray to the saint. No real Moslem would do this. My grandmother were saved by “Kurds” of Dersim during the genocide who knew her father. The kurds also had practices in Dersim similar to the Armenians. I recommend everyone interested about the Armenian community of Dersim to read the above mentioned book.
My english is not very good. I tried to understand but very little was done to. In our teaching, God is the heart of what people in what heaven is. We live our faith in Islam influenced by many ancient peoples of the region, we see a separate beliefs. More Zoroastrianism and Islam pangasizm effects are seen.
Iam borned in Mazgirt/Dersim,,,my father, his mother and whole his family also lived in Mazgirt/Dersim as far as i know, also their ancestry,,,And my mothers father from Pertek /sagman village who moved to Pertek long time,,in my mother doesnt know many things but she remember that people were use to tell her family that they were Armenian(She is 75 years old),, so i am know totaly confused and i ve been searching for my identity, because i feel always that my family Armenian descendant,,,What can i do?? which source you recommend me and how can i find these books,,, i can read in French , English and Turkish,,,,my parents cant speak kurdish,,,,my best greetings
Should I propose you to read my book in french “Les Fils du Soleil, Arméniens et Alévis du Dersim” ;)
http://editions.sigest.net/page00010157.html
wonderful article – to serdal and others in DerSim – get your DNA tested by FamilyTreeDNA.com and your family roots will be revealed. I believe this is the best way for you to become acquainted with your true relatives. The Armenian DNA Project will be helpful in this effort.
Dear Janet,
Are you really kidding me?!? If you make a DNA test than you will not find differences between Armenians and Kurds because they have both West Asian DNA. That doesn´t make Kurds to Armenians, as the Armenians only see them as Christan Orthodox while Kurds are Kurds no matter which religion they have.
The Armenians might have related language to the Urartaen but the Kurds language is related to the Medes language who had an Empire around 800 BC – and it is in the same region where the Kurds still live. Also the Phrygian music style is being called Kurd.
Please stop denying the Kurds and their identity like the Turks tried to do to them.
Thank you.
it has been a thousand years since Turks conqured Anatolia. Who ever has the strength to take it back, please feel wellcome. No hard feelings for Conqurers…
This is a well-written, informative article. Thank you for writing it. I have no roots anywhere close to this region or this land (now called Turkey, previously Greater Armenia). I am simply trying to understand why certain Europeans and the U.S.A. have taken such an interest in this general geographical region of Eastern Anatolia.
Is this Valley of Dersim part of the ancient region of Sophene? Is this general region important in the line-up for events according to the Christian Bible, which we call, and not so affectionately, the “End Times”?
Any clarification of this would be greatly appreciated. Best of luck in your Ph.D. work!