LONDON (A.W.)—Greco-Roman wrestler Arthur Aleksanyan won a bronze medal in the 96 kg. category, securing a third medal to Armenia.
Aleksanyan snatched the bronze medal after defeating Cuban Yunior Estrada Falcon.
The 6’1’’ wrestler was born in Gyumri in 1991.
On Aug. 5, Armenia’s Arsen Julfalakian won silver in the 74 kg. category of Greco-Roman wrestling at the Olympics. Earlier the same day, Hripsime Khurshudyan secured a bronze medal for Armenia in the women’s +75 kg. weightlifting competition.
It is interesting that to date Armenia, with a population of 3 million, with highly unfavourable economic conditions that translate into weak infrastructure for support of Olympians to date has accumulated 3 medals.
Azerbaijan, with a claimed population of 9 million, and cash to burn in support of anything and everything their Olympians need, has also accumulated 3 medals.
Turkey with a population of 75 million and also not lacking for funds has 1 medal.
Is there anything more to be said ?
And I am not even going to bring up the off-the-charts per-capita Chess achievements of Armenians.
Given the kind of people we are, how the heck did we end up in the mess we are in ?
How did Turkic tribes manage to take our lands and exterminate so many of our people ?
We have had great captains throughout our history; our fighting men are a match for the best in the world: so where did we go off the road between Tigran the Great and today’s tiny, landlocked Armenia ?
Great observations, Avery. Difficult to answer. I’m pretty sure yours is a rhetorical question, but still one has to wonder. I suspect that it started when the ever-hospitable Armenians seemed to welcome the Mongol invaders (in the beginning at least). The way I see it, the fall of Constantinople and the other famous battle (name escapes me) that the Greeks just failed to show up for was basically the beginning of the end of the world for us.
PS, don’t forget the Hye who won gold for the Russians. He is our hero too. If our country weren’t so destitute, all our athletes could represent the Mother Land.
Getsen mer Hye yeghbairner yev kooyrer.
Good points, Avery. I have been wondering about the same questions. There has never been shortage of military talent or bravery in our genes. We’ve had captains like Bagramian and Isakov, to name just a couple–world-class commanders that would make any nation proud. How did some nomadic tribes manage to make fun of us so badly? We have to somehow figure out how to get back on track.
Avery
Part of the guilt is upon us, that’s for sure. In some historical instances, when we needed unity to fend off external enemies, a few of our marzpans preoccupied themselves thinking narrow-mindedly about their own principalities. A few others were striking deals with foreign invaders behind their kings’ backs (e.g. Vassak Suni). Armenians are smart and have highly-developed aptitude of individuality which helps us in some cases but surely damages us collectively as a nation in others. I think this is where we went off the road between Tigran the Great and today’s tiny Armenia. Chronologically, somewhere in the Middle Ages to be exact, probably after the Bagratuni dynasty rule in the 9th-11th centuries AD. We quite possibly could straighten the things up was it not the invasion of the Seljuk Turks and the consequent formation of the Ottoman empire.
But history is not a static event…
Gina
Except that Bagramian, Isakov, as well as Babadjanian, Khudyakov (Khanferyants) and dozens of generals were either under the Soviet or Russian imperial command. This is not to say we had no brilliant captains during the independent times (Mamikonian, David Bek, Mkhitar Sparapet, Andranik, Nzhde, Monte Melkonian, etc.) but, unfortunately, our national central command was either weak or non-existent. Strong, public-spirited, patriotic leaders is what we need, but after 600 years of loathed Ottoman rule and the genocide, this is no easy task to achieve within just 20 years of independence and with two jackal neighbors in the East and the West.
Agreed Avery jan…
You asked very good questions..
Serko:
{Except that Bagramian, Isakov, as well as Babadjanian, Khudyakov (Khanferyants) and dozens of generals were either under the Soviet or Russian imperial command.}
There is no “Except”.
We Armenians need to stop that.
The Great Marshal Bagramian served in the Soviet Red Army.
The Red Army defeated the homicidal, genocidal Nazi War machine.
The Great Armenian Marshal helped defeat a vicious evil that was an existential threat not only to USSR, but to Armenians.
Turks had assembled something like 70 divisions on the border of Armenia SSR during the Battle of Stalingrad.
Had the Red Army lost the battle, Turks would have invaded and raced to Baku.
If Nazis had won, there would no Armenia, and Armenians in the Diaspora would slowly melt into the vast Ocean of the foreign lands.
Not too long ago, I had an argument @AW with one of our compatriots, because he belittled the accomplishments of one of our greatest Armenian intelligence operatives: just because he served in the Red Army in WW2.
I will not stand for it.
Our great national hero General Drastamat Dro Kanayan made some questionable choices during WW2: nothing to be proud of.
But I don’t dwell on that: I always remember this; He risked his own personal life a hundred times over to save a few Armenian civilians from certain death during the dark days of AG. His leadership as a great captain won many an impossible battle.
We Armenians have the nasty habit of judging our own too harshly: we overlook the multitudes of the great things our leaders and heroes have done, and remember just one or two mistakes forever.
Other nations venerate their criminals: we beat down our heroes because they don’t fit the mythical ideal mold we think they should fit.
Avery jan well said..
Unfortunately our approach to such matter and trying to belittle our achievements is not just toward our heroes but also towards each other.. it is because of such actions and mentality that Armenians are having difficulty doing anything collecively… Hope that will change very very soon.
You misunderstood me, Avery. I meant to say that Bagramian, Isakov, and other great Armenian captains served under a strong, unified political command. I have no problem with what sort of command it was. Such a strong central command is, I believe, what we, as an independent nation, lack, but I understand that the reason is our stateless condition for about 500-600 years.
I think it is an oversimplification to say that Turkic tribes destroyed us. Our Turkish and Kurdish neighbors great and small destroyed us. They were 1,000 years removed from the mythical 600 tribesmen who set in motion the long line of defeats leading to 1915, which by the way was aided and abetted in large measure by avaricious Imperial Germans and Austrians.
We are not the only people who were destroyed. Greece, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and many more had many centuries of death and destruction. Our fate, and that of Assyrians, Pontic Greeks, and Anatolian Greeks was the harshest, but it was not unprecedented.
I think the reason we suffered as much as we and the other Anatolian Christians suffered is primarily geographic. We lived much closer to the seats of Turkish power than did those in the Balkans. We had no seaports, and although Europe tactically and really wept for us, it did not view us as a captive European people, and sent no Lord Byrons to fight for us. We did not have defensible borders or seacoasts. I think these are important reasons.
Avery,
I typically agree with what you write, and I agree with most of what you’ve written above. However, to claim that a German victory in WWII would have spelled the end of Armenia and Armenians is hard to say at best, and hyperbole at worst. Fact is, Armenians were on both sides of the conflict, and it would not have been in the interest of the Germans to allow the Turks unfettered access to the Caspian oil fields. Moreover, Germany was very displeased with the Turks for staying out of the war, because Turkey had hinted that they would join the Axis powers, but never did.
As for the USSR, it played a positive and negative role in the development of Armenia. Positives were the rapid industrialization and the high education standards, negatives were a loss of freedom of thought and worship, as well as the infusion of corruption into the social fiber. Of course there are more but these are the most important in my opinion.
I strongly dispute that there is evidence Hitler would have helped Armenia.
1. He published repeatedly that he thought Armenians were as low in his ordering of races as Jews, maybe lower. He once referred to Armenians as the pathetic mongrelized leftover of corrupted Aryan Persians, corrupted by Jews.
2. He did have some captured Armenians in his Armies, along with Georgians, Tatars, and pretty much everyone else except Jews. There is a famous June 6, 1944 picture of “Six Grim Mongolians” wearing Feldgrau as Allied prisoners.
3. The German, Soviet, etc. Empire States only cater to potential power. Small states always get destroyed – look at how Soviets and Germans carved Poland up. He would have used Persia to offset Turks in our hypothetical new Caucasian world.
4. There was a cultural relationship generally between Turks and Germans, their WWI allies, and that relationship focused on killing Armenians. Remember Kurt Waldheim?
jda
I think it is fair to say that with the arrival of Seljuk Turkish tribes the destruction of Armenia has started. There were no “Turkish” neighbors in Asia Minor before the invasion of the Seljuks in the 11th century. But, like I said, a part of the guilt lays on Armenians because of their inability to act as a unified force against the invaders. But then, no other nation at the time could withstand the intrusion of the hordes of nomadic Seljuk warriors. Some could put themselves together afterwards and throw the invaders out. Armenians couldn’t and were ultimately barbarously destroyed.
3 medals for tiny Armenia and that’s not the end! Apres, bravo, Artur jan!
an addendum: Adam Krikorian, an Armenian-American head coach of the US women’s water polo team today led his team to the final by securing victory over the Australians
I dislike in theory the nationalistic attitude many presenters, spectators and viewers have. I’m sick of seeing athletes wrap themselves in flags too. I don’t want to hear that our beach volleyball team “crushed” some other team.
I would like to celebrate the victory, and the victor, not the homeland.
However…..
As of this moment little impoverished shrinking no hope, unimportant, surely soon to be gone Armenia has three medals and a certain world beating rich all powerful “moderate Islamic” nation constitutionally incapable of Genocide but always its victim to our west has One.
Just 1. Only a slim vertical 1. That’s one, not two. 1. One is the loneliest number. Tied with Saudi, Guatemala, and Trinidad and Tobago, which likely has just a handful of athletes.
Plus they aren’t so great at chess either.
One. Uno. Mek. Ichi. One. I like the sound of that.
Ha.
Definition of Olympic Games by Oxford Dictionaries: “a modern sports festival held traditionally every four years in different venues, instigated by the Frenchman Baron de Coubertin (1863–1937) in 1896. Athletes representing more than 200 countries compete for gold, silver, and bronze medals in a great variety of sports.” Athletes representing countries… and countries have their flags, anthems, and other national regalia. Athletes do not compete in the Olympics representing their selves; they represent their homelands. If you dislike seeing athletes wrap themselves in flags, then you have the same feeling when national anthems are played or national colors are displayed on their uniforms?
What do you mean by “surely soon-to-be-gone Armenia”? Do you have God-like capacity to govern matters on Earth as in Heaven? Or a crystal ball in the garage to gaze into?
“…surely soon to be gone Armenia.” What the heck is wrong with you? Are you a Turk?
When the US Dream Team beats up on some Third World nation, it’s no cause for chest pounding. But when tiny, remarkable, resilient, eternal Armenia takes a metal I say let that banner wave.
Medal…i meant medal (not metal).
There is a difference, as you may know jda, between nationalistic attitude and patriotic attitude. Runner Kirani James of Grenada, a miniscule country with the population of about 100,000 people, said he won for his country. How is this “nationalistic”?
Are you a globalist, jda?
I apologize for the clumsiness of my prose. When I said Armenia was unimportant or soon to disappear, I quote our neighbors and enemies, who have been saying such things since Rome conquered us.
I have no idea what a globalist is, and I was careful not to mention athletes who win for their countries. That is patriotic, but sometimes the mindless flag waiving of uninvolved spectators is galling. When athletes win they never say they won due to the superiority of their nation – after a their nation did not put in the hours or make the sacrifice, the champion did.
TURKISH OLYMPIC NON NATIONALISTIC MEDAL UPDATE: 1
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ARTUR.. WE ARE SOOOO VERY PROUD OF YOU..
Armenia with its challenges still comes out a winner… Astvats mer het..
More medals to come…
BRAVOOO!!
I think we need to prepare athletes in every category… People like Agassi # 1 Armenian tennis player in the last decade can be great help preparing Armenian tennis players as an example, we need to discover talents at a very young age in our primary schools and help them archive there goals… Sports does not require great amount of money but great amount of encouragement and direction and coaching.
We do not need to compare ourselves with other countries but find that talent within our own that could bring the Gold and respect from the world.
It is not impossible…
For a small country such as Armenia, would it be better to focus on and encourage select sports? I’m not sure how all these Olympic training works. Weightlifting and wrestling appears to come naturally to Armenia. I’d like to see Armenians in archery. That would have history symbolism.
I’m not familiar with sports in Armenian schools, but encouraging and exposing them at a young age would be fruitful. Can anyone from Armenia tell us about sports and gym curriculum in Armenian schools?
Here’s a history of Armenian olympic medals since independence.
G S B
Beijing 2008 0 0 6
Sydney 2000 0 0 1
Atlanta 1996 1 1 0
Total 1 1 7
So Armenia has had it’s ups and down. No medals in 2004. I’m going to bet that this is normal for a small country like Armenia.
What has Andre Agassi done to help Armenia or Armenians? In the world of tennis the only Diasporan tennis player I know of who has done something for Armenia is David Nalbandyan.
Random
You say: “no medals […] is normal for a small country like Armenia. But the same small nation produced remarkable athletes when part of the USSR: Olympic champions, world champions, European champions, and champions of the USSR proper.
How was possible for the same small ethnos to shine in sports, in particular, back then?
Serko,
I second Avery. Armenians have often led the armies of empires not their own, most notably the Byzantine, which one historian said should be called the Graeco-Armenian Empire due to the many Armenian Emperors and leading families.
We should never denigrate the sufferings or the accomplishments of Armenians in WWII merely because they were part of the Red Army. Armenia, less than 1-2 per cent the size of the United States, lost more than half as many of her sons and daughters in battle as did the United States.
Armenians bore the brunt of Stalingrad and Sevastopol disproportionally, they
were among the first to enter Berlin. they did every dirty job.
Armenia produced 62 Generals and the first non Slavic Field Marshall.
We should honor and always remember them. If the world forgets them, we should remember them that much more. They kept Armenia alive against Hitler and the Turks. Let’s not bury them.
please see my reply to Avery’s post explaining that a misunderstanding took place
Serko: Sorry if I misunderstood you.
sorry AR:
{Fact is, Armenians were on both sides of the conflict, and it would not have been in the interest of the Germans to allow the Turks unfettered access to the Caspian oil fields}
Nope: Armenians were not on both sides of the conflict.
Yes, there was an Armenian SS legion, consisting mostly of decrepit, half starved POWs, who were given the choice to join or be shot. Yes, there were also Armenian volunteers. The number in the SS legion was about 15,000-20,000. Hitler considered them useless as fighting force.
Countless ethnicities from USSR were either pressed into (POWs) or volunteered to serve the Nazi war machine, including Russians, Ukrainians, Tatars, Georgians (30,000), Azerbaijanis (40,000), Chechens, Uzbeks, etc, etc. And of course volunteers from pretty much every European nation. (some disturbingly enthusiastic volunteers).
One the other hand, an estimated 500,000 Armenians served in the Red Army, fighting to defeat the Nazis.
An estimated 250,000-300,000 did not come home.
Note that around 1940, Armenia SSR’s population was only about 1.5 million.
Pretty much every able bodied Armenian man was fighting the Nazis.
If you consider that as “Armenians were on both sides…”, then I don’t know what to say. By the same logic so were the Russians, Ukrainians, etc,etc.
Regarding my hyperbole:
You are correct that Germans would not allow Turkey to grab Baku oil fields.
The plan after a victory at Stalingrad was for the Germans to swing South and grab the prize oil fields of Baku.
Simultaneously, Turkey would invade through South of Armenia SSR and link up with Azerbaijan.
And to think that Germans would not allow Turks to wipe out Armenia with no Red Army present to stop them, just because they were displeased with Turkey, is naïve. I am sure you know what the situation was during the last days of the 1st republic, when Bolsheviks invaded Armenia.
Germans regarded Armenians as subhuman, just like everybody else who was not of the Master Race..
The plan for all Untermenschen was the same: kill off the useless mouths, keep the strong&healthy as slaves, and work them to death producing food and goods for the Master Race.
I know some delusional Armenians (and I don’t mean you) had hallucinations that the ‘Aryan’ Germans would protect ‘Aryan’ Armenians.
Good luck: the same Germans massively assisted Turkey in their successful AG campaign.
[Germans regarded Armenians as subhuman, just like everybody else who was not of the Master Race..] –Not quite true, Avery. Germans regarded Armenians as an Aryan race. By a horrible Nazi definition, a nation belonging to Aryan race could not be subhuman. But here I agree with you: the fact of course couldn’t serve as a guarantee for not letting bloodthirsty Turks to wipe out Armenia.
Serko:
I will defer to [Jda]’ s post above about what Hitler thought of Armenians:
{“1. He published repeatedly that he thought Armenians were as low in his ordering of races as Jews, maybe lower. He once referred to Armenians as the pathetic mongrelized leftover of corrupted Aryan Persians, corrupted by Jews.”}
So here are the remaining events in which Armenia will compete in:
Arman Yeremyan
Taekwondo Men’s -80kg
10 August
Devid Safaryan
Wrestling Men’s 66kg Freestyle
Sun 12-Aug
Gadzhimurad Nurmagomedov
Wrestling Men’s 84kg Freestyle
Sat 11-Aug
Mihran Jaburyan
Wrestling Men’s 55kg Freestyle
Fri 10-Aug
I got the info from
http://www.london2012.com/country/armenia/athletes/index.html
I see 4 women out of 25 athletes. And I think there are two who are not ethnic Armenian (based on their names, I don’t know their background):
Gadzhimurad Nurmagomedov and Yuri Patrikeev