Dear Mr. George Aghjayan,
I recently read your “Confessions of an Angry Armenian Revisited” article in the Armenian Weekly [Editor’s note: The article is available at http://armenianweekly.com/2009/11/04/aghjayan-confessions-of-an-angry-armenian-revisited/]. However, I feel as if there were two George Aghjayans writing that article. The first half was written by a well-balanced, intelligent man that hit the nail dead on. The remainder, it seems to me, was written by a man completely detached from Armenian politics, living in a self-created bubble. This might be lengthy, but I assure you, it is worth your time.
Let me begin with the point you made regarding denunciations of the ARF: “Proponents of the protocols are also attempting to deflect criticism by insinuating that the ARF’s participation in the coalition government over the past decade prohibits or invalidates all criticism emanating from its members,” and “the ARF attempted to work within the system and only relinquished the strategy with the announcement of the protocols, a capitulation that cuts to the core of our national interests.” Are you suggesting then, that for the past 10 years, Robert Kocharian’s decision to transform Armenia’s economy and political structures to a mafia-clan system was not a good enough reason to leave the coalition? Or his decision to expand every undemocratic policy that LTP had (albeit, with an excuse: “It’s the last administration’s fault”)? Or, as you recollected, his decision to join a commission (TARC) that explicitly put a question mark under the genocide’s validity? Or, if I may, wasn’t his decision to attend the OSCE summit in Istanbul and sign its infamous charter a good reason to leave the coalition? Perhaps not. I suspect his decision to adopt the Madrid Principles on the Artsakh conflict (if not an even less friendlier resolution than the one LTP fancied, at least its continuation) were “counter to Armenia’s national interests.” But it wasn’t a good enough reason to leave. Kocharian’s and Sarkisian’s decisions to falsify elections, clamp down on opposition media, use the Armenian army to kill peaceful protesters, declare a general amnesty but not release all political prisoners, and disband the fact-finding group that sought to bring some truth to March 1 were “capitulations that cut to the core of our national interests,” weren’t they? Not in the eyes of the ARF, it turns out. These aren’t “nuances” that one might be able to overlook, Mr. Aghjayan, they are the cornerstone of Kocharian’s and Sarkisian’s policies. The Dashnaks have been espousing (and you have been defending) a bizarre, inconsistent, and confusing policy that essentially lets the party disagree with core policies its coalition partners have but still justify its membership in the coalition. With this method, we could have communists, Islamists, nationalists, republicans, fascists, liberals, racists, feminists, Jews, dentists, Robert Mugabe, me, you, Dashnaks, Levonakans, the ANCA, the Armenian Assembly, and aliens from Jupiter form a coherent coalition government.
Of course, supporting the democratic movement last February meant forming a coalition with Levon Ter-Petrosyan, a man who, despite being the victor of the 2008 election, banned the ARF in the 1990’s. That wasn’t an option. Instead, the ARF decided to join a coalition with Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s minister of defense at the time of the banning, the unelected president-elect, Serge Sarkisian. Do you not remember, Mr. Aghjayan, how, in 1994, Defense Minister Sarkisian personally lead the investigation against the ARF’s “terrorist activities”? Do you not remember Defense Minister Sarkisian’s letter to LTP, explaining in detail the ARF’s “worldwide conspiracy against the Armenian government” (a conspiracy, that I assume, involved you)—the letter that LTP eventually used to give his claims legitimacy. If he could be forgiven, I am sure you could join the majority of the people of Armenia and forgive Levon Ter-Petrosyan too.
I also can’t understand why the ARF didn’t have this “work within the system” mentality you defended in the 1990’s, when, in 1994, Ter-Petrosyan was still a legitimate leader, hadn’t spoiled his reputation, and was still extremely popular for waging a successful war against the Azeris. If you decided to be an opposition force (a right you were entitled to) against the Levon of ’94, how can you defend being a pro-government force with the Kocharian of ’03 or the Sarkisian of ’08?
Politics aside, Mr. Aghjayan, the fact that Serge Sarkisian was not elected president last February was and is a national security problem. If you were not going to join the protesters near the Opera, you certainly should have not joined Serge Sarkisian. The fact that he is an illegitimate leader allows Hillary Clinton and Sergey Lavrov to twist his arm, threaten to support the opposition, and thus force him into concessions. The only reason why the coalition was formed was to help him shed the image of illegitimacy. Or, perhaps, Serge Sarkisian really believes that the economy will improve if the border is open, and thus opposition to him will dither away. Either way, our people and our country lose. You and the ARF (and all its worldwide organs) did not have the leadership and foresight to realize this fundamental truth (and apparently still don’t). Instead, you helped push Sarkisian’s mirage of legitimacy down the diaspora’s throat. Some Dashnak sympathizers chose to believe conspiracy theories about Levon’s Jewish wife, some decided that it was payback time and used what happened on March 1 as a way to “get back at Levon.” Some, like Hrant Markarian, blamed the movement on “outside forces.” Ironic, no? Some took refuge in the clever excuse that “if Levon came to power, he would be worse.” An excuse that reproduced itself when all else failed. An excuse that has at its base propaganda and misleading information. And an excuse that, at the end of the day, is irrelevant because it was clear that he was the victor and a new election was due. Didn’t the ARF argue that LTP’s illegitimate election led him to make the concessions he did in 1998? Why would it have been different this time around? Why should Serge Sarkisian listen to the voices of his people when he clearly doesn’t need their help getting reelected?
Today, some call the ARF a “dominant opposition force.” Your beloved Dashnaktsutsiun is as mistrusted as when Mr. Vahan Hovhanissian received a mere six percent of the vote (and before that, when the ARF received one percent of the vote). ARF leaders don’t enjoy the support of any sizable amount of the population for good reason. The word “dominant” is a lie. The word “opposition” doesn’t seem to be true either, but that’s for another time.
And yes, I vehemently oppose the protocols (and anything else this illegitimate monster that your party helped prop up does).
I wish you well,
Henrik Dumanian
Guest Contributor
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LTP didn’t win the elections. He may have won enough to call for a run off, but he certainly didn’t win. If Paron Aghjayan has an agenda, then you sir, most certainly do as well, and it is filled with much fluff and rubbish.
Also, please take a course on geopolitics, the deal with turkey is a Russian project and has been from day one, the best the west can do is put on a happy face and try to make the best of it. It has very little to do with the March 1st events, and not all the protestors were peaceful as you would have us believe.
Dumanian, I appreciate your close watch of the Dashnak party’s MO. I truly do, and I do agree with you.
Aghjayan’s article, as far as I can tell, dealt with the matter of silencing any opposition to the protocols, particularly the historical commission clause, by using the ARF’s associations and lack of action in the past.
I find that article’s value to be that of a reminder of central issues. If George wants to whitewash his party’s image in order to weaken the trend of “guilt by association,” then I can’t blame a dedicated diasporan Dashnak for trying–:)
In any case, I find your article a complement to, not as much a critique of, George’s article. Besides, George is really a great guy–:)
To George Aghjayan and “Contributor” s above post:-
While you two guys are entangled in political give and take -Armenian style-I would inform you both that great Turkey IS SOFTENING UP,like I wrote to Geroge in “their” way…
Just go to Lragir.am and read about the Armenian St. Giragos church being repaired…and the Istanbul patriarch´s asistante´s-for he is ill-archbishop Ateshian´s report from Diarbekir…
Yes work has been started to repair said church -another showcase for great Turkey and of course their policy of showing to the world-especially EU that they are becoming “democratic”…
Archbishop Ateshian has expressed ” that I am dreaming of the day when an Armenian congregation will enter and pray in this church”…No further comments -by me-
Does this not show how they manipulate the Armeno -Turkish rapproachement?
go figure that out,in stead of fighting ea other over LTP,ARF etc.,
While I am at it,indeed the elections were rigges and that very openly,as even without that it was pretty clear and obvious Serj had not been able to obtain enough votes, but then ARF, PLUS Arthur Bagdassarian´s “Orinats Yerlkir”, country of LAW stepped in and provied enough more votes to offset LTP´s-by a coaltion,plus Barkavaj Hayastan…We all know that Youngmen!!
This was indeed a good act,since RA did not wish -the majority as above showed LTP´s rule back.However, Serj has been carefull in appointing a few ,more or less able persons to posts-positions in his government to carry on ,otherwise it would have been worse.
This is the core of the issue,no need to praise one and downgrade the other(s).We are all armenians after all ,like Saroyan has written somewhere..
What the Diaspora needs to do instead of aforementioned interparty or their admireres´intervention is to RE-ORGANIZE,put our own house in Spyurk in order,so as it can really become a LI-IRAV (full-fledged) partner with Homeland and …begin to have a REAL SAY AS one voice. This is crucial,since as it has been observed the RA government is naive in this respect,they do know that the Diaspora can muster up clout ,but they are waiting to see ACTION in this respect.
Whereas, we, in Diaspora are -unfotunately-busy discussing,rather disputing ea other´s “erroneous ” deeds.Much energy and time could be spared if the Diaspora learnt its lesson and commenced to tolerate ea other and respect any,repeat any good “suggestion” come from any source, whether this ,that political party or non so.Take care not to fragment the Diaspora any further,gather up speed and get rolling.This inter-party and/or just plain individual give and take will lead us nowhere..
what we need is planned strategy and a mechanism that will conduct us to become a noticdeable Diaspora with its Superstructure, with its Supreme Council,no ,not only by existing political parties and other establishments that are on the scene, but through a crystalization mode, that, which this humble servant of the Armenian people has been developing over many yeasrs 30, to be exact.Please visit my web page http://www.ARMENIDAD-worldwide.org and click-if you don´t have time to read all- on Pre Conference 2002 and especially my “A New Concept of Electoral System and Governance” in Bulletin No. 7
Thanks for reading me and please
E.& O.excepted,
Hama Haigagani SIRO,
gaytzag palandjian
ADDENDUM!!!
NEW SCENARIO:- On Armenian T.V. Last night-I have all 3,Shant ,USArmenia and H1.
Mr. Cafesjian flies into Yerevan in his private Jet.Welcomed as is appropritate to a benefactor.O.K.?
Well ,yes! but this is a personal Initiative-like All Armenian benefactors do_Aganj Khosi Ara Baliozian-i ,i.e. his critique re BBB´s that is Bishops, Benefactors and Bosses…figure out!
Whereas ,this is very characteristic of all Benefactors , I said that,How would it have been if this gentleman-with all respect to him and the others such, If…
they had gathered together like in my Pre Conferecne 2002(see my sweb .www.Armenidad-worldwide.org, I had meekly “suggested” to form the NUCLEUS,,(Goriz) of the coveted “National Invested Trust Fund” , togetherwith the Manoogians, Vatche Manoukian(U.K.) Ernekian of B-Aires , the Hovnanians and Kirk Kirkorianand had each chipping in, with 2/3 hundred million dollars and more,thus ,attracting the rest of our not billionaires but millionaires first, then the further lower 100,000 dollars upward, then 10,000 dollars downward and even the 1,000 dollar ones,MAKING UP A ROUND 2 BILLION DOLLAR OR MORE WORKING CAPITAL OF SAME!!!! EH …
You see, I had pointed out in said “paper” that stayed 4.5 yrs on Armeniadiaspora.com,togetherwith 6 others´”paper”s, that the only way our 100,000 strong “Profesional colleagus associations” yet to be completed-only 5 on the scene, so far…we could do the following:-
These Borad of the “magnates” would appoint their monetary experts to invest said capital into ONLY SECURE GOVERNMENT BONDS, bringing in, some 5/6% interst per annum ,Of which 3/4% would go to Investors,or less, rest would accumulate compounding to -capital!! and albeit a half percent charges for maintaining said offices(16,each field of Proffession,its office,all in one building) in Geneva,CH, then Loans would be granted through National Bank of RA -against mortgaged property what not to the, middle and small traders, village farmers etc., who NOW PAY OR HAVE TO PAY A hefty 14% to BANKS -that by the by have sprung up in Yerevan-, one after the other sucking the blood pof the aforementioned .
Is this not a PITY!!!!-true Mr. Cafesjian did a good job so did K.K. and the rest but each on his her own and their way. NO CONCERTATION, no team-work and premediated planned programming: to help the said small ones,especially far flung rural areas of RA. I am not a partisan , but I do tend to lean towards the Swedish, Danish finnish Euro Socialist system .At least this is what the three Euro countries , namely, Greece, Portual and Spian did -going through the mild Euro socialism for 12 /13 yrs, before going full-blast “free market economy” Alas the 15 ex-soviet republics-Armenia inclusive-went overnight ,from the soviet disctatorship system to the “wild” free market one, thus paving the way for the POLARIZATION of the Armenian populace in RA.Well, they asked for it they got it ,would say one that loves the capitalistic system at its best,the “wild” one..
Whereas ,especially a near third rate country such as RA should have adopted the Euro one.Indeed, it is not too late.We can still redress that,beginning indeed from the Diaspora(s) and, by and by try to convince our partners in RA to follow suit.I do not mean that the western, France,U.S. etc. compatriots try to implement that in their residing countries, but help do that in RA.
this much for now.
Hama Haigagani SIRO,
gaytazg palandjian
ex-Board member(elected by 400 participants along 6 more )
to the executive board of same, 30 yrs ago…in Paris Armenian Congress.
I would like to thank Henrik Dumanian for his comments. I am particularly pleased at the anger and passion he conveys while at the same time offering thoughtful and reasoned arguments – once again proving that our collective outrage is rational. My objective was not to justify 20 years of ARF policy in Armenia, but was a response to those attempting to use sweeping condemnation of that policy to dismiss legitimate criticisms of the current predicament. I may take some minor exception to some of his points, but nonetheless Mr. Dumanian’s criticisms are healthy and welcome.
I thought that Mr. Aghjayan’s original article was good and that Mr. Dumanian’s response was also very useful.
The first comment above, by “AR”, asks Dumanian to “take a course on geopolitics.” I didn’t know there was a course on Caucasus geopolitics that explained it all. May I ask Mr./Ms./Mrs. “AR”: where did you take courses on geopolitics? Moscow State University? Baku State University? Georgetown? Ankara City University?
Also, since you are apparently a world-reknowned expert, perhaps you can provide readers with the names of some good universities with courses on Caucasus geopolitics that you would recommend and some references to informative articles on the subject of geopolitics in the Caucasus.
Mr. Aghjayan,
I thank you for your reply. I know you’re a much loved and respected man in your community and your chapvats response to my scathing letter only adds to your character.
If I missed your point, I think you also missed mine. I think you did, in fact, try to justify 20 years of ARF policy in Armenia by wrongly claiming that “efforts counter to Armenia’s national interests have been in play for the past decade, but until recently they have been resisted,” and “A more accurate portrayal is that the ARF attempted to work within the system.” That sounds like a justification to me.
You also said “The error of the ARF was not in being part of the coalition, but instead relying solely on that strategy.” As explained in my article, joining the coalition in 2008 directly contributed to the “mirage of legitimacy.” You didn’t shoot the victim, but you definitely helped tie his arms to stop him from escaping. Therefore, joining the coalition in and of itself was in fact an error. The Armenian Assembly didn’t sign the protocols, but aren’t they responsible for its disastrous consequences? Of course they are.
More importantly (and this is the point I hope to one day elaborate on in an article), these contradictions in ARF policy continue to this day. Vahan Hovhanisian admitted that the system of government itself locks the people out from any healthy participation, but has chosen to define and base the ARF’s opposition status on one issue (the Protocols). You’re essentially admitting that the government operates inside a large and thick dome, and instead of trying to crack the dome open, you’re complaining about something going on inside it. Even before the Protocols hysteria, the ARF admitted the Republican party and Sarkisian rigged Yerevan’s mayoral election to an extent never before seen in Armenia, but still decided to stay in the coalition. Does this remotely make sense?
The reason why I go to such lenghts to outline these contradictions is because there are very important reasons behind then. Reasons that are well known and well established facts amongst the citizens of Hayastan. The ARF in Armenia is like all the other “Orinats Yerkir,” “Prosperous Party,” “Republican Party,” etc. — they’re there to give the Europeans and Americans the perception of diversity within the government, but essentially represent the same thing.
In last year’s election, Artur Baghdasarian ran a campaign on par with LTP in terms of opposition to the regime. He claimed if Serge was elected president, Armenia was essentially doomed, and regime change was a must. The government allowed him to go on all of its TV channels, they funded his campaign and presented him as a safer alternative to LTP. He didn’t have this luxury when he ran in 2003. In fact, since he was the main opposition candidate back then, they attacked him with the same veracity they attacked LTP in 2008. Why did Kocharian and Sarkisian decide to let him on TV and give him the podium in 2008? Because they needed someone to split the opposition vote — he received about 17%. Days after Serge was “elected” — he joined the coalition, went on TV, and pushed the “of course there were irregularities in the election, but the protesters need to go home and participate in a constructive way” line. Essentially saying…we have to work within the system. Sound familiar to Unger Vahan’s rhetoric?
Absent any other legitimate opposition force to propel forward…they have decided to create one. Guess who’s filling that niche now? http://hetq.am/en/society/boxoqi-akcia Why hasn’t Yerkir media been shut down like Gala TV and A1+ have been? Why don’t Dashnaks get attacked and beaten? Why aren’t those hunger strikers being attacked by the police? It’s because they are not a threat to the real danger in Armenian society: the mafia-clan system.
This is the perception the ARF has in Armenia. That is why you don’t have any support. Look at the comments posted by Armenians in Armenia from that link I just posted. Shorter, less articulate, not as elaborate, but essentially saying the same thing.
You were a real opposition party in Armenia once, you know very well how a real opposition party gets treated by the Armenian government. This is not it.
I know you don’t want to be in a party like that Mr. Aghjayan.
Sincerely,
Henrik Dumanian
Paul:
My geopolitics does, in this case especially, is provide a clearer and emotionless understanding of what is occuring in the region. Some Armenians are so busy looking at this whole protocol thing as if it is a national issue which originated with Serj or with some other figure in the Armenian or even turkish government. This couldn’t be further from the truth. This whole issue is a lot bigger than ARF, ltp, and any other person or party you would like to mention from Armenia or the Diaspora. If some Armenians looked at this with a clear head instead of the paranoia they would see what Armenia has to gain from this, what it has actually ‘given’ up, which is nothing since you can’t give what you don’t have, and wouldn’t resort to writing fluff such as the above article about last years Armenian elections.
As far as schools, I can tell you my degree is from an east coast school, on par with Georgetown’s security studies program. I can tell you that a number of military and intelligence people were in many courses with me and there is a reason why the U.S. government suggests this particular program to their DoD employees.
As for articles, this is a good one, note sometimes the admins of Armenian weekly block url address but the article is from jamestown.org if it is blocked. But here is the gist of it:
http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=35684&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=7&cHash=4e50e9633a
Moscow’s decisive military victory over Tbilisi in the summer of 2008 now seems to have been only a prelude. The military victory over Georgian, Turkish and Western interests in the Caucasus prepared the field for a diplomatic coup de grace. With one brilliant move Moscow has now finally brought down the house. Twenty years of close cooperation between Europe, America, Israel, Georgia, Turkey and Azerbaijan in the Caucasus has begun to crumble as a result of the Moscow sponsored protocol signing that took place between Armenia and Turkey two weeks ago in Switzerland. Ankara is now finding itself at odds with Baku. NATO is realizing that it may be gradually losing Turkey. Turkey is realizing that it is dependent on Russia. Baku is feeling forced to move closer to Moscow. Georgia is now effectively isolated and abandoned. Our Armenia, until recently bypassed and isolated, has suddenly become one of the most pivotal nations in the region and a strategic platform from which Moscow is projecting its power – military, economic and political – south into Turkey and beyond.
Also stratfor has some insightful articles on Armeno-turkish relations that you and others should read.
Mr. Dumanian, I also agree with everything you said in your article, though I too believe that LTP didn’t win but there definitely should’ve been a runoff, which he’d probably win!
Since the administrator here did not post my previous comments, I’ll try another one. It is indeed a sad day in the diaspora when two sides of the political fence is represented by individuals such as Aghjayan and Dumanian. Aghjayan should realize that the ARF will remain a fringe party for the foreseeable future because it is constricted by its archaic political platform and a majority of its membership are way out of touch with the Armenian state. The ARF will eventually realize that by acting hysterical over the “protocols” it basically sabotaged itself and will be left out of future political developments. Some high ranking ARF-ers are beginning to realize this now but it’s all a bit too late. Supporters of the treasonous criminal called Levon Petrosian must suffer from severe delirium. What can I say, there is no other explanation for their bizarre behavior. After having lived through the dark days of the 1990’s with LTP at the helm, what sane individual would even consider bringing back Levon and his gang? Artsakh was liberated not because of Levon – but in spite or Levon! Whatever progress there has been in Armenia (and there has been a lot) it has come under Kocharyan and Sargsyan. The so-called “protesters” in Yerevan on March 1, 2008 were more like savage African tribesmen burning down their own village. In my opinion, the authorities at the time waited way too long to put a stop to them. Taking a close look at the two sides represented in this article, I realize that it’s not for no reason when they say Armenians are pathetic when it comes to politics…
My input to Avedis and others online:-I shall try to pinpoint and throw some more light on what has expired in Homeland since re-independance of RA:-
1-LTP was elected president since there was no other politically apt person to take the reins at that point of time( a linguist, Matenadaran director an intellectcual in short-With no savvy of regional politics-
His erroneous thinking-like Krikor Zohrab-that he could cooperate with great Turkey,going to Turgut Ozal´s funeral and sending Libaridian several times over to Turkey-while with good intentions-proved a wrong approach. Since Latter showed once again that their position as to tiny Armenia has not changed.He should have immediately changed tactics and joined up with Armenian other political forces(ARF et al) and condemned Turkey in its uncompromising stance to the world diplomacy.He did no such thing.”Todo al revez” totally contrary,he banned the nationlists efforts and very uncouthly banished ARF leader Hrair Maroukhian out of his native Homeland,a terrible act. He should at the very least,have banished him to a far away village-town in Armenia,not OUT of RA.No Armenian should be treated so.The Homeland belongs to All Armenians.And he did not have that much knowledge. What he later did is well known to all.In short after his resignation over NK ,which himself had patronised ,once again proves that he was not, is not a politician thinking for his Homeland.Not even Kochinian, Demirjian would have done that!!! i.e. trying to make up with Aliev -baba.
2.ARF did right joining up with Serj´s Republican party -I said that above-plus Orinats Yergir and b arkavaj to shut LTP out.There was no other way to save Homeland from falling back into LTP´s incapable rein.Hence-I am impartial no Dashnak or Ramgavar- his being supported by his followers to come back a nonesense.
3.Kocharian for a while followed suit and tried yet another approach to great Turkey,which proved futile,a wrong follow up indeed.But then he straightened up and showed more eptitiude in siding with those who advocated a more independant policy.He did quite a bit too in way of trying to redress his predecessor´-s errors.He served his tenure “bastante bien” pretty well. Also helping Serje Sargsyan to take over was a well thought of act.There was no other´, as much capable on the scene.
To resume now:-Someone correctly up above mentioned, that other very important forces are involved in the Region,other than RA,Turkey, in extension Azerbaijan and Georgia.The West´s -one of the aforementioned forces indeed-tries to gain”further ” foot-hold in the Caucasus did not ealize ,rather has not been successfull so far.They may try yet another approach,for the competition thereat goes on.It may well prove that <Armenia´s role in this respect may be reconsidered by -especially the big Oil producing companies and their governments, hopefully.Meanwhile,RA is by and by progressing as rgds development of economic relations with many further away countries.Iran ,indeed is at the forefront ,which is most important,what with new railway link and ,gas and oil suply projects being achieved, making RA less dependent on others….
What really matters for us Diaspora Armenians now, is to meditate re-structuring its centrifugally acting present establishments,whether political parties and /or other.It is incumbent on us to to re- develop into a more centralized system,if you will,such as I have time and again indicated through another instrument.Rather a mechanism, that is based on real PARICIPATION AND REPRESENTATION of our huge collectivities that is .This ,I believe can be achieved only through our so far neglected,previously called “silent majority”.Now, a Dynamic Diaspora-yet , not harnessed to said mechanism-which I dare confirm again, is the adoption of a NEW STATUTE that encompasses our huge collectivities,majority -wise non-partisan but compatriots well advanced in their Professions.These forming into “Professional Colleagues Associations” and then begin to receive through these their delegates-elected by THEM TO THE NATIONAL AFFAIRS ARENA,I do not fail to say alongside existing political parteis and other.Please refer to my web site http://www.ARMENIDAD_worldwide.org
No way out,if we continue haphazardly ,in a fragmented fashion .The Diaspora´s ineptitude as rgds its -so far-incapability to have its say in the Homeland and cooperate with it ,is precisely due to lack of coordination and being an un-organized entity.Time to act is now.
Hama Haigagani SIRO,
gaytzag palandjian-ex Board member of First
Armenian Congress,Paris
Mr. Avedis,
I now see why your comments weren’t approved earlier on.
Great article, Mr. Dumanian. Thank you for taking the stand. I firmly believe that we have no future unless/until we acknowledge and correct the mistakes of the past. Virtually everyone makes them, but to have the credibility to lead in the future addressing those mistakes is critical.
Regarding the outcome of 2008 election, please refer to Chapter IV (Statistical Analysis) of Policy Forum Armenia’s report of what happened then. http://www.pf-armenia.org/fileadmin/pfa_uploads/PFA_Election_Report–FINAL.pdf
David Grigorian, Ph.D. (against the protocols)
http://www.pf-armenia.org
Palandjian, the church repair, as repeatedly stated by the community there, is not related to the recent events and is a result of a push by the local community. It is also an unsubstantiated premise that Turkey is “softening up.” Turkey is merely changing its fascism to a more modern format. As I have written elsewhere, wealth can afford more refined modes of popoulation control and implementation of imperialist policy. The US’ “civil rights” is also a “softening up” of a sort that has merely hardened elsewhere and has made for a more complete fascistic model where wars and waged undeclared by the legistlature, covert wars are the norm, exploitation of labor in undeveloped states at the expens3e of the local population is the standard economic model, where ever constructing oligarchy is the trend. That is an extremely naive outlook to say that one church repair is “a sign of softening.”
Aghjayan is making a valid point: Don’t use so-called “errors in judgement” as a means to discredit and obfuscate the entire core issue of a disastrous set of decision in foreign policy that effectively alienates everyone in Armenia and outside of Armenia. It is a fact that the local populations are more disenfranchised than ever, and this has been verified via multiple channels.
Although IMHO, Dumanian’s reaction is a bit heated consdiering who he is addressing, as I haven’t in my experience sees Aghjayan as someone who intentionally covers up his party’s errors, Dumanian wishes to police the ARF’s contradictory position in order to balance out Aghjayan’s article and keep this party in line. All is fine. Both articles are valid and necessary. This is not in my view a typical 1950’s “mete out of the opposition.”
Your proposals for infrastructural invesments have always been on my mind, but I reluctantly agree with Karen Simonyan’s last article on who is governning Armenia, which makes your proposals only likely in the event there is serious paradigm shift in the government and bureacracy toward a much more transparent and nationalist model. Currently, in all areas, we merely see a revival of a bolshevik echelon.
Hye, Obviously, Turkey is currently in the mode of using PLOYS… over and over, whatever suits the moment, rebuilding Armenian churches (excluding the cross) and more… these are just occasional fluffs by the Turks – as they have been wont to do over the years now – to ‘fool’ many into thinking Turkey finally, – after nearly 100 years – has come around to the being as one with the democratic civilized societies in the world. Yet today, Turkey is a Turkey is a Turkey – no change.
They are as in the child’s fairy tale: THE EMPORER’S CLOTHES… (Emporer paraded himself as if he
was now wearing new clothes (which didn’t exist) and instead, was parading in his underwear. He
had fooled none others – only himself. Even a child called out to say: THE EMPORER ISN’T WEARING
CLOTHES… And so it is with Turkey- after nearly 100 years – it acts and shows itself to be ‘advanced’ for a moment, spasmodically, for show, but truths are that they have yet to know and see the truths about themselves – not only to the world, but to prove truths to themselves.
Which they are unable… in the mode of telling lies to their own citizens, in their own history books.
Manooshag
Hye, to me Dumanian comes across as anti-Tashnag… were there ANY others who were stepping forth and endeavoring to participate in the efforts of the fledgling Armenian nation – and if in their efforts erred, Tashnags took a wrong step, does this make the Dashnagtsitium inept and open to such
criticizms? Why not take on the AAA and their convoluted position today with the Protocols, et al?
Why not take on the other Armenian parties who never get the attention – as do the Tashnags – because, you shall take notice, the Tashnags are and have been patriots, individuals who have been IN THE ARENA. That means in the best, and yes, the worst of times who else has been trying their all for their nation – under the even the most impossible circumstances – a Sardarabad comes to mind. Sardarabad which has given Armenians the piece of the land which Armenians call Haiastan today.
While Armenians suffered under communism Tashnags were seeking the day that Armenians would become a free nation again, not content as other were other parties for our people to suffer under communism… For all those years of communism our yerakoon stood in my church… waiting.
As I have said before, critics are a dime a dozen; whiners, faulting all others…. a dime a dozen.
Manooshag
Ugh, I don’t even know where to start. I ignored your comment the first time you made this argument commenting on another article, but I guess I’ll respond to it here.
This is the “default” argument that almost every single (and here I make no exaggeration) Dashnak sympathizer makes when confronted with criticism — whether the criticism be substantive (like mine) or propaganda. The ARF, Mr. Manooshag, has had many accomplishments — accomplishments that have, yes, contributed immensely to the preservation of the Armenian people. It has also made equally catastrophic decisions that have worked severely against the prosperity of the Armenian people. And while it has been on the right side of important issues many times, it has also been on the wrong side of equally important issues. I have seldom criticized the ARF’s policies from the “Sardarapad” era — as you can see, all of my arguments against the ARF are made against the contemporary version of the party — and even when I have, I have made them from a historical standpoint…much in the same way an academic would. If you’re going to take credit for the successes, Mr. Manooshag, you should also take credit for the failures (i.e. victory at Sardarapat vs. defeat at Kars and Van). Why is the ARF responsible for the successes but not the failures, despite having complete control of the government of the time? If the failures were inevitable (i.e. faced with unsurmountable odds), then so must be the successes (i.e. we would have won Sardarapad anyway). Why do you feel the need to reach deep into history and selectively grab portions of it to propel your current ideas forward? Most of us, including myself, glance over this period of our people’s history with the general understanding that the ARF did the best it could, and most of its failures are understandable considering the unsurmountable odds they faced.
But the Dashnaks have completely rewritten the past to paint themselves as the party that has continuously been on the right side of Armenian history…despite the fact (and here is where my real criticism starts) that THE ARF WAS ORIGINALLY AGAINST THE LIBERATION OF ARTSAKH AND ARMENIAN INDEPENDENCE IN 1988. Maybe you forget that the Hnacks, Ramgavars, and Dashnaks all united in an October 1988 press release — essentially telling the people to calm down, go home, and not do anything to upset the “superior Soviet bodies.” Would you like a copy of the press release that called for your “valiant brethren in Armenia and Karabagh to forgo such extreme acts as work stoppages, student strikes, and some radical calls and expressions that unsettle public life in Armenia.” The ARF, ADLO, and the Hnchaks were worried about “the good standing of our nation in its relations with the higher Soviet bodies and other Soviet republics.” This is the last thing the 200,000 people on the streets of Yerevan and Stepanakert needed to hear from a “nationalist” party. This is why the ARF received 1% of the vote in 1991 (at the height of “nationalist fervor,” I might add). This is why all the members of the Kharabagh Committee (most importantly LTP) despised the Dashnaks. And this is why the people of Armenia and the founding fathers of the Armenian republic (Vazgen Manukyan, LTP, Vazgen Sarkisian, etc.) all considered and still consider the ARF to be a whitewashed party. Even Vazgen Manukyan, the real victor of the 1996 elections that LTP rigged, had the same position on the ARF as LTP. This is why, despite suffering from a clearly undemocratic tactic by LTP, nobody really cared about the ARF in 1994.
But somehow, you have been able to convince yourself that you always, somehow, wanted independence, and that you were the party that, somehow, wanted to liberate Artsakh when other forces were floundering or were cowards under the flag of “pragmatism.”
How do you know I have never criticized the Armenian Assembly? How do you know I haven’t told Bryan Ardouny off? Why are you assuming I’m out to criticize you for the sake of criticism? Have I said anything absolutely false? May I remind you, that the ARF, the Armenian Assembly, AGBU, and every other major organization in the Diaspora ONCE AGAIN failed to join the people of Armenia last March. AND ONCE AGAIN, after failing to stand with the people, have found themselves (somehow more enlightened) to be at odds with the ruling regime in Armenia (just like what happened with the communists). AND ONCE AGAIN, the people of Armenia will continue to consider you the party of the confused and hopeless — not to be taken seriously.
Mr. Manooshag, I don’t want to talk about all of this nonsense. No, I’m not saying just because you’ve made catastrophic mistakes, you shouldn’t be allowed to speak now (although there are somethings to be said about that too). I want to talk about what’s going on today — and that is precisely what I have done…in every article and every comment. People like you, who are probably too ignorant of the situation to contribute positively to the discussion, shouldn’t drag the discussion into what this comment turned out to be: a rant about the history of Armenian partisanship.
Wish you well,
Henrik Dumanian
Without a doubt, there are those that criticize the ARF based solely on personal prejudice – meaning they would be critical regardless of the actions of the ARF. I did not get that sense from Henrik at all. It is an interesting phenomena that those who see in the ARF the best hope for achieving their personal objectives are both the most critical and also the most adamant defenders of the ARF. In the former, you find criticism in an effort to raise the performance of the ARF and in the latter you find those who fear any criticism of the ARF weakens its ability to achieve those objectives. Personally, the people I respect the most for their ideals, commitment and sacrifice are those I have found in the ranks of the ARF and in that there is hope. There is no reason to fear criticism – the surest sign of irrelevance is being ignored.
Whoever Avetis is, he’s a very far-sighted and thoughtful individual, and I mean this as sincerely as it comes. Avetis, you are absolutely correct, but I don’t necessarily wish for the individuals above to be isolated and chastised. The machinations that govern the political apparatus of Armenians in the diaspora is archaic and short-sighted at best and subservient to foreign interests at worst. That is all true, and this is something that everyone with independent thought has managed to ascertain every time they have made attempts to join community works, political action groups, as independent individuals with genuine convictions. They have been mostly rejected by an exclusionist and totalitarian party apparatus and hierarchy with all its original barely post-Ottoman trimmings. It is fascinating to witness the justification of destructive behavior under the party banner, but that is the status quo that has ruled the diaspora for generations since before the genocide.
Obviously the most important factor to first of all consider is the external influences that cause for the perpetuation of the “rule by mediocrity.” Recently I was discussing the Movses Der-Kalusdian dilemna (our own Strom Thrumond, except less loyal to our cause than Thurmond to his constituency’s needs) and the utter historical fraud behind his ascension to “glory,” and one can only think of one foreign influence: France and its controllers and the usage of a pitifully misidrected party apparatus to maintain a politically destructive direction for Armenians. We are talking about eyewitness accounts on what occurred here during the loss of the Sanjak to Turkey and subsequent depopulation of an age old Armenian populated region. We are talking about protecting an individual by granting him immunity status by elongating his PM tenure in order to avoid court martial in Syria for treatnous acts (i.e. aiding in the anti-nationalist drive to maintain French colonial status.) Many such men who couldn’t care less about an Armenian future were as a result given top positions by way of foreign, direct foreign influence. This is but one example, and such examples transcend party lines, denominational divisions, social stratum (until the end result of collecting enough favors and bribes, of course) and even gender.
Invested is much capital against any Armenian solidarity, whether due to direct intent or indirect “interests”, and this is something that Armenians fail to realize or at least are consistently discouraged form realizing by all involved ruling parties. If there is anything the ruling strata agree on, is that the Armenians must be made unaware of just what sort of operations go against Armenians at gargantuan levels in all ideological, cultural, political and communications levels.
This assertion is always the first to be attacked precisely because all the mediocrities in power have sold their soul in one way or another to some foreign entity. This is, no matter how one slices it, the political situation of Armenians. We have in fact never ceased to be a millet, and the sooner we realize this, the better we can regain better control of our future.
No wonder you ask “why were we not told before. Why was there no cooperation to mitigate this situation?” Why are we so divided?
All these questions can be answered by one simple sentence: When you witness as an independent Armenian in dismay over the hysterically tragic historical political un-thought in the Armenian diaspora (and republic, apparently), you notice that Armenians have been taught to judge one another based on which foreign loyalty (ideology, state, power block, etc) they hold steadfast to. Think about it for a moment. What were the dividing lines in the diaspora at any given time? What were the most exploited situations and conditions? “Pro-Rusian, pro-American, Pro-East, Pro-West” and so on, all defining elements on what constituted “a good Armenian party and party man” for generations. Some habits are hard to break, but they can be broken. Perhaps a good political nicotine patch treatment is in order. I hope we don’t lose another arm or leg due to political gas gangrene.
Manoushag, I agree on Turkey. Turkey is merely changing its fascistic model to a more contemporary one, one that requires a bigger budget and more expertise in its propagation and maintenance. Obviously Turkey is the same hostile and active supporter of any anti-Armenian activity. As to “renovations and rehabilitation of structures”, we should take a cue from the “renoveation of Ani” and the perverted manner with which such “renovations” took place, in addition to Akhtamar and so on. http://www.raa.am is a great place to start. Samvel Karapetyan is our best sentinel to my knowledge on this specific topic, and I would be truly interested to hear his opinion on this latest “renovation project” as well.
Mr. hagopn,
It’s unfortunate you agree with someone who called the protesters last year “savage African tribesmen.” It’s clear we can’t have a civil discussion about these events if people are going to (and have been) pretending the demonstrators did not have a legitimate complaint, and were on drugs, suffering from psychological issues, had become delusional by forgetting Levon’s past, etc.
His other catastrophic mistakes aside, the fact that Levon was instrumental in bringing Armenia into the Artsakh war has been a long proven fact, at this point. His Kharabagh committee and popularity was based around that goal. There are even dozens of letters from Robert Kocharian to LTP thanking him for his support in the liberation of the Artsakhian people, even after Levon had resigned.
Maybe an earthquake that crippled 25% of our industry, an inactive nuclear powerplant, independence, an economic blockade of 80% of our border, a new currency, a war against a country that had a standing army three times the size of our army — maybe those also contributed to the poor situation in Armenia (a situation that continues for the majority of the population outside of Yerevan and its surroundings). That is exactly why we had those “dark years” from 1992-1994. All our resources were aimed at the war front.
Armenia’s decision to get involved in Artsakh meant, if it lost (which was more of a possibility back then than winning) the Azeri army would march into Yerevan. What seems like an inevitable decision now required a lot of will and determination to make back then. And Levon was crucial to that decision. This does not lessen any of his current opponents, or excuse him for his mistakes, but it is the truth and our proud history during the Artsakh war should not be distorted to meet whatever political agenda someone may have.
For people like me who lived through those “dark years,” — they are not days that I cynically dread or blame on any one individual — I remember those as days where we collectively and proudly suffered for our brethren in Artsakh. Neither me nor my family have regrets our horrid situation, and we are willing to do it again if need be.
Mr. Aghjayan,
Thank you for your sobering remarks. This is precisely why I replied to you, specifically. While we disagree on many things, you are clearly someone we can have thoughtful discussions with.
Hakop jan,
I agree with the essence of your statement: but allow me to add. As a tiny, resource-less, impoverished and landlocked nation surrounded by dubious friends and historic enemies, in perhaps the worst geopolitical neighborhood in the world – it’s inevitable that Armenia will be dependent on foreign powers for the foreseeable future. As you already know, my only hope for Armenia’s survival lies not in the big talking/small performing diaspora, but in Moscow. Anyone with even an ounce of objective reason and rational thought will realize this obvious reality of our fledgling nation. Without an effective Russian presence in the Caucasus (and in Armenia) not even a million Armenian azatamartiks would be able to stop the Caucasus from turning into a Turkic-Islamic cesspool. As you well know, evicting Russians from the Caucasus with the help of Turkic-Islamic forces has actually been a project for Western-Israeli-Turkish intelligence agencies for the past twenty years. Just think of what would of happened to our republic in the Caucasus had this project succeeded…
We as a nation must fully exploit our relationship with Moscow, as Jews exploit their relationship with various power centers of the West, for the long-term benefit of Armenia. Assessing the geopolitical environment in which we live in Armenia will be dependent on Russia for survival for the foreseeable future. At the very least let’s rejoice in the notion that we serve the interests of a major regional superpower, one that is becoming gradually more powerful. This is one of the reasons why I support the so-called “protocols” because it is a great opportunity for us to finally become a major regional player. Let’s use this historic opportunity to strengthen Armenia so that it can one day be truly independent.
Once one begins looking at our national plight in these geopolitical terms, the arguments posed by the likes of Aghyayan and Dumanian here become parochial, to say the least.
On a side note: Although the ARF has had some communications with the KGB/FSB, it is nonetheless deeply penetrated by the CIA.
The above arguments have the typically detached and unsympathetic view that bureaucrats and academics like to pride themselves with.
Whether or not these protocols are part of or aid Russia’s geopolitical interests (and, as you argue, by extension, Armenia’s) are entirely different questions as to the ones I have posed and commented on. It is clear Russia is looking for a willing partner in Armenia to carry out her aspirations. Whether or not this “willing partner” was democratically elected, is going to share any economic or political benefits us becoming a “regional power” may bring with the rest of the population, or if he’s going to be a violent and criminal menace, are entirely different questions.
The ludicrous idea that an unelected president can go to Switzerland, lock himself in a room with Turks, Americans, and Russians, with no TV cameras or photographers, agree to any sort of “historic” agreement with a nation that only 100 years committed genocide (and still denies it), and then come back and try to impose it on the Armenian people by putting on a fake show disguised as “discourse” trumps any half baked or fantastic “geopolitical” argument you can provide about how this is a good thing. And, even if it did trump it, the internal situation that we have been discussing is a problem that runs parallel to our external one — it is not an alternate one…
The fact that there is so much confusion as to who is really behind the Protocols, the fact that Armenia and Turkey are saying two completely different things, the fact that so much of it is expected to be understood by taking a “course on geopolitics,” the fact that the Armenian and English versions (the English having legal preference) are quite different in wording, and the fact that Sarkisian does not have the right to be president, and thus not a right to make such a decision, is not how a “historic agreement” that’s suppose to bring “peace and prosperity” to the region should be signed, agreed to, or swallowed.
I propose we set up a bipartisan forum to discuss the protocols. I wouldn’t mind joining you in a debate Mr. Avetis.
Aghjayan, Dumanian,
I’m assuming Dumanians response to Aghjayan’s piece isn’t a letter to the editor…
In that case, what usually follows an op-ed piece in reputable newspapers, is a brief note about the authors. A 2/3 line shpeal that gives credentials, position, post etc… about who the author is so that the readership has some much needed context. Thanks.
I would not care less if Hagopn -as an example-praises Avetis and latter starts addresssing him as Hakop jan-this is very characteristic of Armenians discussing on a forum such as this.One says something that pleases(dyur gouka) the other and they becomwe very amicable(temporarily?) .While , when for instance when I just fathom that great Turkey( I shall always b y the by address that country as great,until U.S. British support ceases to it )for they are the ones that made her “great”….
Now then dear Mr. Dumanian,one-as you know sees the glass half full,while the other–) my ref.is to what you attribute to Levon,I presume, LTP Ter Petrossian that his acting in NK was CRUCIAL?
Please note it is exactly the opposite.While I am to say the following to you,I was in Artsakh House,in Yerevan in 1992,when two persons(Surhandags,in Armenian) from Shahumian burst in the room of the vice pfres. of artsah ,where I was too and informed that some 30,000 Armenians are being forced out of Shahumian…by Omon and regular azeri troops..
Meanwhile ,later ,when our Jogads by an by mustered up clout and began to push on…Mr. Levon,instead of picking up the red phone and address himself to Aliev BABA, in Russian,or even in Armenian(cause BABA spoke Armenian,,,)saying Davarish,if you do not at this moment recognize NK(Artsakh) as parcel and part of Armenia, my boys are coming over to salut you in Baki(read Baku,that is the way they pronounce it).He simply was incapable to play the chess game well-read in this case -war game.The winner gives the order to the looser… does not chicken out ..Alas, bygones are bygones:I said enough about his very uncouth act of banishing H.Maroukhian…
So why not accept -like Hagopn never does-that he simply was not a capable leader?
As to ARF,Ramagavaragans, et al.I wish them all very much success,for these are political parties with rank and file and their dogmas to which they adhere to.My idea of ….
<AN ORGANIZED RATHER RE-ORGANIZED SPYURK CANNOT BE BUILT ON THESE.THEY MAY INDEED GO ON THEIR PARTICULAR MODE AS THEY WISH AND DECIDE…
BUT WHAT I AM SUGGESTING IS A COMPLETE “overhaul of the Diaspora ,to restructure it around the hUGE COLLECTIVITIES OF OUR PROFESSIONAL-NON PARTISAN compatriots.Whether this will me to pass or not,is another matter: I FIND IT QUITE TIMELY NOW TO BEGIN SAID PROCESS!!
ARF.Please listen to individual´s viewpooints too.Like oit is in you Dogma…I regret to say sometimes you overlook that…an individual such as self may have a point too.I hatge to add following,no not addressed to ARF Ramgavar, but to Armenian general mindset(s).
A.The Armenian-so far- is self centered,to the point of being conceited and “AMPARTAVAN”
B.The Armenian is not therefore SOCIALLY FORMED..does not wish to ACT IN UNISON w/others.
C.The other worst “trait” yet to be gotten rid off ,is the envy,jealousy he-she excercises to -especially fellow Armens…SO ..
Unless we become more socially formed(V.Oskanian is trying in other fashion,i.e. under another name ,so as it may be dubbed a s his brain child)we cannot achieve much.The only way out I have found out ,studying especially in this problem for us is FORMATION INTO WORK-PROFESSION TYPE ASSOCIATIONS:::
HAMA hAIGAGANI siro,
GAYTZAG PALANDJIAN
Mr. Ramond,
I occupy no professional post or position. I am thus far just a student in New York City.
Mr. Palandjian,
That was an interesting story about the time when you were in Artsakh. I also have a story. I was in Syunik in 1992 with a group of people involved in some humanitarian assistance. This was soon after the liberation of Shushi in May of 1992. I recall how some non-Dashnak freedom fighters at the time, including some high ranking ones, recounting how Vazgen Sarsgyan along with senior military officers from Armenia and Artsakh went ahead with plans to liberate Shushi without telling Levon Ter Petrosian because they were afraid that he would spoil the plan. In fact, Petrosian found out about the liberation of Shushi ‘after’ the fact. This can be confirmed via various sources. Levon Ter Petrosian was and continues to be a blight in our modern history. Everything we are ashamed of or worried about about our fledgling republic today has its roots in the self-destructive policies of that vermin and his criminal gang. When I see Armenians today supporting that treasonous criminal, after already getting royally screwed once by him, it make me seriously wonder about the intellectual and ethical integrity of our hopelessly naive people. As bad as the Kocharyan and Sargsyan administrations have been in domestic affairs, they are head and shoulders above the gang of parasites in power in Armenia during the 1990s…
Anyway, thank you for your self-less contribution to our nation.
I still find it disturbing that there are some otherwise intelligent people, who believe that despite being one of the most fiercest voices in the Kharabagh committee, despite going to jail for an entire year over his calls to reunify Artsakh with Armenia, and despite the fact that he re channeled all of Armenia’s resources into winning the war, including appointing capable people like Vazgen Sarkisian, Serge Sarkisian, etc (who Avetis is claiming knew of Levon’s deceptive stance on the war…despite being the man to appoint them to essentially build an army)…Levon Ter Petrosyan did not want to win the war.
Mr. Avetis, it is quite sad that you are firm on this opinion. As is evident later, anybody with an even SLIGHT defeatist stance (i.e. 1998) would have been quickly and easily dethroned. And That is exactly what happened in 1998. Are you suggesting that Vazgen Manukian, Vazgen Sarkisian, Serge Sarkisian, etc…were all aware of Levon’s lack of support but didn’t bother resigning, publicly revealing it, or try to kill him? That means the “democrat victor” of 1996 elections, the founder of the modern Armenian army, and the current Armenian president have the backbone of weasels.
Realistically speaking, the war would have NOT been won had the President of Armenia, whomever it may be, fully and enthusiastically supported the effort.
Talk about “deranged,” sheesh.
Henry,
Levon Ter Petrosyan, according to reliable sources, did in fact attempt to sabotage the war effort in that time period and had even ordered the inactivation, if you will, of the intelligence apparatus. I am telling you these are words from reliable sources which I cannot reveal. In any case, you’re wrong. I find Avetis’ stody to be more believable.
Henry,
It is true. The protestor were not savage tribesmen. They were in fact either “anti-khrabakhtsi” cult members or “Levon the literate fellow compared to those illiterate non-Yerevantsi ciriminals” cult members. Either way, their decision to march alongside drug addicts (which was confirmed by the numerous remnants, along with the customary “street defecations” and so on typical of “narcomans” on the streets) and paid HHSh agitators is not seen by myself as a brilliant moment in Armenian politics. It is ironic that the ARF was trying to be the moderate party at this point.
As to the ARF, I find the this party in times a provocateur, at other times a suspiciously enthusiastic zealout in dividing communities under quasi-McCarthyeseque pretexts and pretentions, at other times a peacemaker and a dove, and under Marukhian a more balanced and patriotic party, and so on. They are a party quite schizophrenic in their attitudes. George knows my feelings on the matter, and we have had our share of arguments on the topic.
Therefore, my criticism of Ter Petrosyan is not rooted in any particular party sympathy except that of being a radical pro-Armenian–:) Avetis is correct on Ter Petrosyan. You might not agree with him and see him as some sort of radical, but he is correct. Kocharian’s “thank you letter” and other formalities are simply the formal state level pomp, which usually has no substance in this oligarch driven and corrupt context. I don’t see any legitimacy in the current status quo, and this illegitimacy carries over into what my perception and assessment of such “state level pomp” is. Levon is “respected” because he is powerful and has support from various sources and not because he has done good deeds.
In fact he was the main irrational agitator in February to March of this year who employed all the most base prejudices of the constituents sympathetic to the HHSh whose sympathies lie on purely “regionalism.” The bogey man employed was, of course, “the kharabakh clan, that kharabakhtsi” and so on. I cannot believe you are sidestepping this reality.
During the war times, I have heard enough testimony from reliable sources to come to the same conclusion as Avetis above regarding Ter Petrosyan’s role and position.
Mr. hagopn,
It’s unfortunate you can’t reveal these “sources.” Allow me to reveal my sources that suggest the exact opposite: Defense Minister/Prime Minister Vazgen Sarkisian (killed on October 27, 1999), Deputy Interior Minister, Colonel General Artrun Markaryan (shot in January 1998), Minister Smbat Ayvazyan (former Artsakh Fidayi and political prisoner, recently released), just to name a few.
To go beyond my personal experiences, the countless letters and speeches Robert Kocharian gave at the time (and all the way until he came to Armenia) seem to paint Levon as a man extremely committed to the war effort. Even after the 1998 split and resignation, Kocharian wrote to Levon on his birthday saying the exact opposite that you have said. As to why Levon appointed people like Serge Sarkisian (who, I assume, you think was committed to the war effort) as Defense Minister and so on before and after the war seems…idiotic…if he didn’t agree with their very fundamental views regarding the war. Doesn’t it? This seems to have all the attributes of a conspiracy theory…almost.
To comment on: “It is true. The protestor were not savage tribesmen. They were in fact either “anti-khrabakhtsi” cult members or “Levon the literate fellow compared to those illiterate non-Yerevantsi ciriminals” cult members. Either way, their decision to march alongside drug addicts (which was confirmed by the numerous remnants, along with the customary “street defecations” and so on typical of “narcomans” on the streets) and paid HHSh agitators is not seen by myself as a brilliant moment in Armenian politics.”
You’ve adapted Avetis’s unsubstantiated and careless view to give it the aura of rationality and balance, only to essentially hint at the same thing he was saying. So let me get this straight…the fact that drug addicts high off cocaine and PCP (who are, as we all know, by nature, rational and very thoughtful people) chose to spontaneously join the violence and confusion (which was directly caused by the government) is the fault of….the protesters? You’re logic is actually a little funny. The protesters, while being assaulted, scared for their lives, should have taken the time to figure out how to distinguish “high narcomans,” find them, and then they should have figured out what they should do with them in a manner that pleases Avetis, hagopn, and Kocharian. Brilliant. Assuming this “narcoman” factor is as true and important as you say it is (which I don’t think it is), you’re attitude towards them vis-a-vis the protestors is unfortunate.
There are, of course, anti-Kharabaghtsi type people in Armenia. There are also anti-Gyughatsi type of people in Yerevan. There are also very anti-Hayastantsi people in Kharabagh (you should meet my cousins who have served in Kharabagh and see what they have to say about how the people of Armenia get treated in the Kharabagh Army — very sad considering they are their to protector their lives and families and nation). But you cleverly labeled the entire March 1 opposition (which I would argue encompasses the majority of the people of Armenia) as being “cult members.” I don’t feel the need to go on since it seems like we’re going to get into the “division” conversation people in the Diaspora like to exaggerate and obsess over. If the people of Armenia hated Kharabaghtsis, they would have never elected the head of the Kharabagh committee as president, they would have never protested in 1988, they would have never fought in 1991, they would have never starved for them in 1993, and they would have succumbed to economic pressures long ago.
The “bogeyman” IS the Kharabagh clan and the Kharabaghtsis. That is no secret. And yes, It is at the core of the people’s concerns. It is unlike the corrupt state system under Levon and the USSR. It is a CLAN system. I don’t have time to get into details about this, but it can be a fun political science adventure for you. It also might explain Levon’s immense popularity in legitimate terms and not “cults” or “savage African tribesman.” But for now, I’ll leave you with the last paragraph of Levon’s first and most important campaign speech:
“I wish to underscore this right away: their Karabakh origin has absolutely no bearing on my position. Had they deserved it, they would be welcome to rule Armenia not just for ten more years, but for 100 years, as their ancestors, the Hetumians of Artsakh, ruled the Kingdom of Cilicia for 150 years. I consider unacceptable attempts to drive a wedge between the people of Karabakh and Armenia through malicious talk and provocation; they are unjust and dangerous. I will therefore do everything within my power to prevent the spread and reach of such attitudes, especially since 99% of the support base of the disgraceful system established by Kocharyan and Sargsyan consists of natives of Armenia proper.”
Good day to you all.
Henry:
I first read your piece in the Armenian Weekly (print edition). I agree with everything you stated.
You have captured the contradictions that the ARF has put itself in. It’s not Anti-ARF, it just is what it is.
Moreover, while not perfect, your writing style is clear and flows well. I wish more people followed your style.
Finally, I have to commend the Weekly, a party organ, for printing this article. ARF is often accused of censoring views that are contradictory to the official party position. Your article is proof that is not the case.
Mr. Rootarmo,
Thank you and well said re: the Weekly and its staff.
To add to what I was saying earlier. It is a well documented and open secret in Armenia that Kharabaghtsis run the show. At this point, Serge and Kocharian don’t even deny it — many government sanctioned comedians and shows have poked fun at this fact. The average Armen from Kharabagh doesn’t pack his bag, get in a car with his family, and drive off to Yerevan hoping for a better job and future. That’s not who we’re talking about when we say the “kharabaghtsis” and nobody in Armenia imagines it to be so. Most of the Kharabaghtsis that come to Armenia come at the request of Kocharian and Serge, usually family members, close friends or former Artsakh officials — they are given high ranking jobs, are aided in establishing businesses, and enjoy the direct and indirect financial, physical, and political support of Serge and Kocharian. (More so Kocharian than Serge) They are a privileged class in Yerevan.
In all honesty, I have met very few Kharabaghtsis who don’t consider Hayastantsis to be filth — just last friday one Kharabaghtsi in the U.S. told me we should support Serge over Levon because Serge is a Kharabaghtsi and Kharabaghtsis are better people than Hayastantsis. Can I not argue, then, that Robert Kocharian’s policies are based on anti-Hayastantsi ideals…considering he seems to give privilege to Kharabaghtsis? Or, as started before, what about the disgusting and brutal beatings and prejudice Hayastantsis have been receiving in the Kharabagh army during Serge’s reign as Defense Minister? Why didn’t this happen during Vazgen Sarkisian’s tenure?
Nonetheless, this entire discussion is pointless because the anti-Kharabaghtsi rhetoric is not what lays at the foundation of the people’s distate for the regime. And there has been further polarization against Kharabaghtsis in Armenia, it started AFTER Robert Kocharian’s presidency…he has done more to create animosity towards Kharabaghtsis amongst the Hayastantsi population in the last 11 years than any single individual. Did you not bother asking yourself what exactly happened from 1994 to 2008? How did the people of Armenia and Artsakh grow apart? How did we go from “Kharabaghe Merna!” (when Levon was leading the pride) to what we have today (where Kocharian is leading the hounds)?
Of course, for people like you, it’s all Levon’s fault and it has always been his fault. For people like me…well…we are burdened with having the unfortunate task of being thoughtful.
So now we can all see what the real agenda of dumanian is. To spread the supposed animosity and ‘hate’ between Hayastanci’s and Karabaghtsis. It was ltp and his supporters who tried to do the same thing last year in order to create an artificial divide between the people. How low he and his supporters are that they would resort to such tactics, something the turks and other enemy nations have often failed at, but here we have one of our own trying to accomplish the task for them.
Avetis is correct, as long as we as a people listen to characters such as dumanian, the great powers will never take us seriously and will continue to push their interests on us.
I’m a little puzzled as to how you came to that conclusion after what I said…
So, anybody who points to the obvious situation in Armenia regarding the “kharabaghtsis” and the gross human rights violations specifically targeting Hayastantsis in the Kharabagh army, is trying to spread “animosity” between the groups? These are simple facts…should we ignore them for the sake of not “dividing” our people or for the sake of political correctness? Are you really refuting the fact that Kharabaghtsis in Armenia are a privileged group, and that the animosity towards them started after Robert Kocharian’s presidency, and that Hayastantsis are specifically targeted in the Kharabagh army?
If you notice, it is not me who started the “Kharabaghtsi” discussion, and I only brought it up in response to somebody labeling the protesters as “cult” members.
And if you had given what I said any serious thought, you would have realized that I consider talking about the discrimination Kharabaghtsis face in Armenia and Hayastantsis face in Kharabagh as “pointless” because divisions are inherently part of our identity. For various reasons, including the mountainous geography of our homeland and the fact that it has been a battlefield for major empires, making distinctions between different “types” of Armenians is as integral and as a part of our identity as is Christianity (it actually probably predates Christianity) and our language.
And I wanted to avoid this discussion because people in Armenia have gotten over it and they don’t let it drag them down (unlike the Diaspora). That is why we can have a discussion about how the Kharabagh clan in Armenia operates and at the same time discuss the need to protect Artsakh and its people from Azerbaijan. It means nothing else beyond what it states. This “animosity” has always existed — it goes back to the first time students from Stepanakert went to Yerevan and realized it was a completely different world. It also existed in 1988, people didn’t suddenly FORGET — but it didn’t blind the people of what is at stake and what the times call for. This animosity existed between Western and Eastern Armenians during the genocide (even more so I would argue). It also exists between the different “factions” within the Armenian American community (I have written extensively about this for the Weekly).
Our “divisons” become a problem when one side tries to portray itself as the EXCLUSIVE victim (i.e. Western Armenians say they were not welcome in the Araratian republic — which they weren’t — but they also never recognized the Yerevan government and didn’t even consider Eastern Armenia to be the “real Armenia” [read Boghos Nubar Pasha’s stuff and the fiasco at the Paris Peace Conference], or, in our case, how you are trying to portray Kharabaghtsis as the victims of “animosity” when the same could be said about Hayastantsi in Kharabagh). It is a moot point.
A few more things to add about this:
It allows people like AR, Avetis, and hagopn, to “explain away” events that, in reality, require some energy in order to be properly informed — it’s simple enough to understand and has the aura of truth.
Attributing the movement last year to “anti-Kharabaghtsi” cult worship allows you to de-legitimize any complaints the protesters mights have, assigns them to the role of a small “deranged” few, and offers an excuse for the authorities to rig elections, act violently, etc.
It is strange how these “anti-Kharabaghtsi” people on March 1 were protesting for a man who would be, in Hayastantsi terminology an “axpar.” Isn’t there animosity agaisnt axpars? It is also strange how this same “anti-Kharabaghtsi” candidate has been the most vocal advocate of making Kharabagh a part of the peace process; a long time goal of the Artsakh people. And it is also funny how the “pro-Artsakh” guys (Kocharian and Serge) support the same (or less friendly) peace process Levon favored. It is also strange how this “anti-Kharabaghtsi” candidate enjoys the support of the larger chunk of Artsakh Fedayis in Armenia. Are all those Fedayis anti-Kharabaghtsi too?
The logic goes something like this: “Kocharian is a Kharabaghtsi, Levon is not; the people of Armenia don’t want Serge or Kocharian to be president because of their corrupt system of government; but Levon also had a corrupt system of government, so if they want Levon to be president, this must mean they are really protesting against Serge and Kocharian being “Kharabaghtsis” and not against the corrupt system of government.”
Notice how this has the “aura of truth” and is simple enough to understand, especially when you incorporate the rhetoric of Armenian politics, which, reflecting the nature of Armenian identity, might seem “regionalistic” or “anti-whathaveyou.” Of course, if one was interested in actually figuring out what happened rather then selectively picking up bits and peices of it to support pre-conceived opinions, one would have to actually invest some time.
Levon’s sudden and miracolous rise to popularity is EVIDENCE OF THE FACT that the corruption in Levon’s time is NOTHING LIKE the MAFIA CLAN SYSTEM the people of Armenia are subject to on a day to day basis. But not for you guys, huh? Nope — you guys are ultimately suggesting that the people of Armenia are too stupid to figure out what is going on in their country and with their lives. They are irrational, suffering from psychological issues, and have become delusional by forgeting Levon’s past. And who cares if they voted for the guy, we know best anyway, screw the elections!
Serge Sarkisian, after having won 52% of the vote, had to have people bused in from far away villages and cities surrounding Yerevan to attend a “rally” last February. The guy down the block, who only recieved 20% of the vote, had more than 20% of eligible voters physically out on the street — and this was mostly men, forget the women who usually stayed home for safety reasons. The OSCE published three consecutive reports, each time the number of “falsified votes” went up — until by the last one it was around 15%…God forbid what would have happened had they published a fourth report. We would have found out NOBODY’s vote really counted.
You know, there are very legitimate critcisms of Levon that I would have loved to talk about last year: his privatization policies, his powerful ministries, 1996 elections, the collapse of the government from 96-97, and what happened in 1998. Instead, we have to talk about whether or not Levon is a CIA agent, whether or not he was really for the war he helped start, whether or not his Jewish wife is financing his campaign with international jewery, and whether or not he’s “pro-Armenian.” But if I’m going to feed thise misinformed flame that has at its core voluntary ignorance and conspiracy theories, I rather defend peaceful protestors, the winner of an election, and the guy with the better ideas.
I’m assuming all those violent protesters fighting, kicking, and screaming against the Iranian regime are just cult worshipers, confused, suffering from psychological complexes, forgetting about Mousavi’s ‘clerical’ past. Savage African tribesmen, right?
Oh how good it feels to be on the side of democracy.
By the way, I was reminded of this discussion today and a question came to me: if Levon Ter-Petrosyan is a liar, and intelligent people such as yourselves could see through his thin layer of rhetoric for what he really was: A quasi-Jew/Turk attempting to overthrow the regime so he could get fat…again — then why didn’t Robert Kocharian open up the airwaves and media and let Levon speak for himself, as they did for the other opposition candidates? Considering there was such a credible case against him, why did Robert Kocharian and Serge Sarkisian feel the need to organize a massive media campaign that included everything from unpleasant video edits of the former president’s posture, to pundit-analysis on Levon’s ulterior motives?
“Outside forces.” I don’t know whether we sound like them, or they sound like us.
THIS IS YEAR 2010.MUCH WATERS HAVE FLOWED SINCE LAST DECEMBER..
LET US WAKE UP TO REALITIES DEAR FELLOW FORUM CONTRIBUTORS.
YESTERDAY AND DAY BEFORE WERE HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT ONES FOR ARMENIA/ARMENIANS.ANARMENIAN PRESIDENT(KING)in the court of ST.JAMES’S,ELIAS BRITISH EMPIRES, THE GREAT BRITAIN AND NOW U.K..EVEN SO STILL ENGLISH/BRITISH..
THE DOWN-TRODDEN ARMENIANS THAT TINY REPUBLIC IN THE CAUCASES IN LONDON-UNLIKE ANTRANIK OR BOGHOS NOUBAR OR AVETIS AHARONIAN..REPRESENTING A COUNTRY THAT HAS ATTAINED STATEHOOD AND WITH A SALL BUT WELL TRAIEND ARMY..SHOWING ITSELF AS THE RIGHTFULL HEIR OF ARMENITY-ARMENIDAD ONCE MORE ..AFTER 600 YRS OR S OF A SUBDUED IMPOVERISHED NATION-PUEBLO..
YES WE HAVE SRVIVED AND BEEN ABLE TO CARVE OUT ONE AT LEAST ONE PROVICNE ARMENIAN FOR MILLENIA OF THE “squatter” ING TRIBES OF THE MOGUL TATAR SELJUK TURKS,LIBERATING ARTSAKH..
NOW THE POWERS THAT ARE…LOOKING US OVER WTH SOME RESPECT..REMEMBER ONLY OCTOBER 12 IN ZURICH CARLES AZNAVOUR SITTING UPFRON IN A DGNIFIED POSITION AS AMBASSADOR TO THAT COUNTRY-WHILE AHARONIAN AND NOUBAR PASHA WERE NOT EVEN ADMITTED INTO THE 1921 LAUSANNE TREATY CONJURING UP GANG OF …I SARE THE WORDS TO THOSE MORALLY LOW PEOPLE TO SAY THE LEAST…NOW THE TIME HAS COME TO COUGH UP..
IT WLL NOT BE LONG WHEN ARMENIA’S CASE WILL BE RESOLVED AT U.N OR THE INT’L COURT OF JUSTICE AT THE HAUGE PUNISHING THE CULPRIT AND MAKING THEM PAY FOR BLOOD MONEY..
LONG LIVE ARMENIA GETZZE A HAYASWTAN/ARTSAKH/JAVAKHK AND…..
HAMA HAIGAGANI SRO,
GAYTZAG PALANDJIAN