On Oct. 8, William Schabas, the president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), addressed an open letter to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Armenian President Serge Sarkisian, in which he said: “Acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide must be the starting point of any ‘impartial historical commission,’ not one of its possible conclusions.”
Below is the full text of the letter, acquired by the Armenian Weekly.
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Dear Prime Minister Erdogan and President Sarkisian,
The proposed protocols between Armenia and Turkey call for an “impartial historical commission” to investigate what the world knows as the Armenian Genocide of 1915.
As the leading scholarly organization engaged in the study of genocide, we welcome continued investigation that will enhance our understanding of the 1915 massacres. However, we are extremely wary of any call for allegedly impartial research into what are clearly established historical facts.
Acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide must be the starting point of any “impartial historical commission,” not one of its possible conclusions. The world would not accept an inquiry into the truth of the Nazi Holocaust, or the extermination of the Tutsi in Rwanda, and nor can it do so with the genocide of the Armenians.
William Schabas,
President, International Association of Genocide Scholars
BRAVO William Schabas… Thank you so very much for sending that letter ..
You are definitely much appreciated.
Gayane
Good job Mr. Schabas, with the help of International Association of Genocide Scholars the “commision” should be formed, and help Turkey accept the Armenian Genocide.
The Armenian Genocide has been studied to death for the past 94 years. We should move to the reparation stage NOW. The provision in the protocols having to do with the historical commission means absolutely nothing; it is just a ploy by Turkey to postpone acknowledging the Genocide. We should completely ignore it and move to legal means for reparations. Armenia can agree to as many historical commissions that it wants. They are only meant as distractions, and we should purposefully go to the opposite direction and sue now. What we lost during the Genocide are personal properties, murdered relatives, and lost identities and legacies. It is noone’s business but ours to sue for damages.
Great Katia then we can count on you to move back to your ancestral homelands in . . um . . . Turkey(?) and start all over from scratch? I doubt it. Reparation is a fine word to throw around but, practically, it is almost impossible to implement.
Case in point – nowhere in 19th or 20th centuries has a people more deserved reparation than our Native Americans yet what would you have them do, spend all their time in Washington trying to out lobby professional lobbyists who have millions of dollars to spend? Or would it be better, as they have chosen to do, to rebuild their culture while using society’s own predilections for gambling and making a small fortune to fund those cultural efforts? In the end it’s about cultural survival.
The Armenians have already passed that test. There are now Armenians in the world than before the genocide. Their culture thrives in every outpost in the diaspora that they have established. While the Hyestansis were trying to resist being “Russified” under Soviet rule, the diaspora was helping by keeping alive the old dances, the old music and the traditional cuisine of the people. What a just reparation that is! All the evil imagined by a government to totally destroy a people only cast their seeds to the entire world and made them welcome in every land and among the leaders, innovators, artists and educators wherever they landed. No, reparation would be a dim reflection of this monumental accomplishment.
Historically, however, there must be recognition of the genocide as the top most important factor in the psychological survival of the people and culture. Without this, getting paid for that what Turkish government did to your family would be merely blood money and would cheapen the sacrifice that your very ancestors made by giving their lives willingly or unwillingly under a government orchestrated campaign of extermination. No reparation, regardless of how large, could ever justify the horror that they went through.
Recognition should be the primary goal of every Armenian soul and hopefully those of your pesas, friends and admirers. Like myself. Oh, yes, and supposedly the American government.
Respectfully,
Robert Thomas
“Yes Hye chem, paitz sirdus – Hye eh!”
Well said, Robert! You have converted my sense of hopelessness into a new sense of purpose and optimism. I especially liked your parable with the American Indians. The only thing that is still missing for me is the realization that present day Armenia is not the land of my ancestors. Maybe I am misinformed but I am fairly sure that a visit1 1to Van and to Trebzon, the origin of my maternal grandparents, would most likely be as dangerous as it would be a let-down.
With regard to the topic of the original post-I would add that the second item of the protocols (after accepting the genocide as fact) should be an international call to salvage and protect and save from future destruction all remnants of ancient Armenian cities such as Van and Ani.
Dear Robert Thomas, you may think your heart is Armenian. Trust me it ain’t. No self-respecting Armenian, left alone a wannabe Armenian would ever say these things.
The restoration of Armenian lands back into Armenian hands, as one of components of reparations, is not contingent on whether Armenians are willing to “go back and start from scratch”. It is continegent on the sanctity of JUSTICE.
If I choose to return that is my decision and certainly not yours. I may indeed choose to return and raise my family there. I may also decide to operate my fruit processing plant on my lands and employ local labor. I may on the other hand choose to lease MY LAND to an Armenian, Kurd or Turk already residing on that land for a mutually agreed upon FEE under the normal terms of a standard lease agreement. Point being MY decision to do what I like with MY LAND is MY CHOICE as its MY RIGHT. Those rights were relentlessly and viciously trampled over almost a century ago and the amount of time elapsed since those genocidal crimes were perpetrated does not delegitimize or undermine my rightful legal claims to MY LAND TO DO WHATEVER I WANT WITH THEM. Had the genocide not occurred millions of Armenian families would still be residing on what is Western Armenian lands.
Those willing to continue living life as defeated slaves are free to do what they like. But they have no right to attempt to trample over my rights and speak on behalf of my RIGHT TO MY LAND AND PROPERTY. THEY DIDNT HAVE THAT RIGHT THEN AND THEY DONT HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW.
KUDOS to the IAGS. This letter should also go to Obama, the spinless two-face. (2012 can’t come fast enough) Apparently the Turkish President was right on when he called Obama a novice politician before the elections. Last, the Armenians are too splintered. We need a unified voice and goal. Maybe the flawed agreement by the corrupt Sarkysian might be the answer. Also, this will get the diaspora more involved in future Armenian elections to not allow corrupt thugs to hijack Armenia.
Dear Mihran,
Sorry if I gave the impression that reparation is not just. It is. It should not be PRIMARY, however. When there is agreement that there was a genocide and that it was intentional then, believe me, reparation will be quick on its heels as the Turks well know. Hence their resistance to acknowledging it.
As for being a “wannabe” Armenian, I met my wife due to studying and playing Armenian music in New York for 8 years fostering a love of the Armenian people. My wedding invitation was engraved and printed in gold in New York in Armenian and English – that was my choice and gift to my wife’s family. Both of my sons speak fluent Armenian. Do yours? I was the choir director of St. James Armenian Church for 11 years and have learned the entire Badarak by heart. Have you? My sons were on the alter from age 6 at their own volition and not through coercion from my wife or myself. I could go on but it would seem to be more self aggrandizing than I wish to be just for the sake of convincing you. No, I assure you my heart is Armenian because that’s a conscious choice that I made. You were just lucky to be born that way. I don’t think that gives you much more right than I to love the Armenian people and wish them well.
You can disagree – just don’t shoot the well intentioned messenger.
Sirov,
Robert
Mihran,
I agree with you in terms of restoration of Armenian lands, but you don’t have to be harsh with people that have different perspectives. Robert may not be an Armenian but I’m sure he is sincere in his statement, and he is doing more than some Armenians in regards to supporting Armenian issues.
Dear Robert Thomas,
Wow, your response to my post has really hit a nerve with some of our Armenians.
I agree with you that the opposite side has a tremendous monetary advantage for a powerful lobby, since nowadays most politicians work for and serve the highest bidder. I agree with you that we probably do not have the numbers needed to populate all of our historical lands if they were given back to us, the Genocide has take care of that. However,
1. Comparing the native Indians to the Armenians is like comparing corn to pomegrenate (BTW pomegranate is the most ancient fruit and is the national fruit of Armenia)
I have the highest respect to the Native Indians and I agree with you that they have been dealt with great injustice. However, the difference is that the Armenians in Turkey were the creme of the crop of that society, practically everything from farms to architecture, banking, medicine and art were built by Armenians and you can research that. As a matter of fact it is documented that thousands of Turks went hungry and without shoes after the Genocide because all the Armenian farmers and shoe makers were deported!
2. We are the descendants of Noah who’s arc landed on our mountain Ararat, we had our own empire, we were part of the Roman empire, we saw the demise of the Roman Empire and the extinction of many different nations, we are the first Christian Nation and to this modern day we have invented some really noteworthy technology including the MRI. We existed for thousands of years before America and the native Indians were even discovered. Being a great “pesa” you probably know all of this. The turks are the descendants of the mongols who mainly survived by “raiding” , raping and plundering other tribes and taking over their possessions. We were supposed to go quietly centuries ago… We didn’t, and it is our right to chose not to!
3. The Christian nations ie, USA, France, Britain and Russia had declared war against Turkey in WWI. Turkey was losing all the lands it was controlling and it needed to annex the Armenian lands desperately so it announced a Holy Jihad and gave its people the temporary right to massacre the Christian Armenians in retalliation to the above Christian nations that were at war against it. They annuonced a Pan Turkic plan that wanted that whole block to be Muslim. Ironically, these same Christian nations are very chummy with Turkey now and have agreed to barter our historical lands for oil revenues and a strategic foothold in the Caucasus. After the Genocide, the European countries divided the equivalent to $15 million dollars in their banks that belonged to Armenians who had perished and were nowhere to claim them. Bottom line, they all owe us.
4. We were massacred and our 4,000 year old homeland was awarded to the criminal party. The jews got massacred but were offered a homeland. I agree with you that no value can be put on what we lost. So, please try to tell a jew that the recognition of their holocaust on a piece of paper with NO REPARATIONS AND PAYBACKS should have been enough.
5. I am glad that you like the Armenians, but the difference between you and me, Robert, is that I have to live with the memories and stories of my grandparents. Some of us still have the deeds of our grandparents properties. My grandfather lost two whole family of relatives, his firstborn and had to live with post traumatic syndrome because he kept on hearing the cries of the children who were being tossed in rivers.
6. To let Turkey go scot free for this tremendous crime is legally unthinkable. For it to happen with the help of the US is sickening to me, an American citizen. The US is free to persue its interests, but it should be stripped of the title of being a leader in human rights. There are many ways Turkey can pay us back, and returning the lands directly adjacent to our border such as Van, Ani and Ararat can be very plausible. If the jews were given lands promised to them by God in the bible, we should be able to get back our forefathers lands snatched away a mere 94 years ago.
7. In closing, I agree with Mihran. Our property and land should be given back to us. What we do with them is our business alone.
An excellent statement by Mr. Schabas and the IAGS. It puts the “historical commission” in a correct perspective. If the Turks are serious about reconciliation,then accept history and move to the next stage. Their fear of that next stage(finanacial and territorial claims) is the real concern. Every year more scholars inTurkey come forward with the truth. We’ll see how much they really
covet EU membership. It is we , the Armenians, that must prepare for the next step. Armenia and the diaspora must be one. Let us learn as we come up the political learning curve.
Katia, you say:
“However, the difference is that the Armenians in Turkey were the creme of the crop of that society, practically everything from farms to architecture, banking, medicine and art were built by Armenians and you can research that.”
Exactly. They were a privilaged minority. They were well represented not just in arts and finance but government also. You have any idea how many Armenian Pashas and Governors were in office at the beginning of the 20th century? Which is of course very confusing given the fact that Turks were brutal killers of all Christians and repressed Armenians and tried to wipe them off the face of the earth…
Then you say:
“The turks are the descendants of the mongols who mainly survived by “raiding” , raping and plundering other tribes and taking over their possessions. We were supposed to go quietly centuries ago…”
This sounds so much like the racist supremist rantings we have all known so well… which is again confusing because I thought it was Turks who were supposed to be the racist brutes… Mongols as you say, supposedly an insult…
It is even more amazing and ironic, since more than anything else it was probably the unusually tolerant culture of Ottomans and their millet system that enabled Armenians, their culture and many others survive through centuries. Just imagine how long Turks would have lasted if it were other way around. Karabag gives us a good idea though.
Maybe that is why Turks have founded so many succesful empires and states, lasted so many centuries in the Middle East, made history, while others have not.
Racism and nationalism cut both ways.
First, pardon to Mr. Schabas because we are quite off topic from the original intent of this forum and I in no way want to diverge from the support for your letter in any way.
Thank you Katia, Stepan and even Mihran. I agree with all of you except, perhaps, only in the hierarchy of timing. Recognition, yes. Reparation, definitely. But one with out the other, as Katia so passionately put forth, is unacceptable. But if you get the first, the second must follow like night turns to day.
I was so interested to learn from historian Hilmar Kaiser (sp?) who has spoken here on several occasions, that the deed to that air base in Turkey that the Turks like to threaten to close, is actually in a vault in Lebanon, and the proven property of the Armenian family whose land it was before the genocide. And it is precisely Islamic law that forbids the destruction of ownership records. So caught in their own device, the Turks will not have any choice and in fact will, themselves, have the very proof of ownership of all those Armenian properties. They can’t, by law, do otherwise.
How an actual repatriation would work, would be extremely difficult but if the Armenians have proved anything it is that they have done the impossible before, so I wouldn’t count anything out. Nor do I wish to imply that they shouldn’t have faith and dream.
Before Armenia was free, I wore the եռագույն that my gunkahayr gave me, to church, an affront to some (because of our Tashnag leanings no doubt). But I wore it proudly as proof of that faith and I shared that dream. Today it is reality and there is no one more happy about the existence of a free Armenia than me. Now there are a few more hurdles to vault and barriers to cross and then the way of an entire people is free.
Asdvadz tser hede ullah!
Dear Robert,
I find your dedication to your spouse’s Armenian culture very endearing. The Armenian community is lucky to have a friend like you. I only said to move to reparations because for 94 years, we worked so hard to get Turkey to recognize the Genocide. And during this time, all of our lands were populated by Turks obviously, we in the Diaspora have put roots in different nations, our survivors have mostly past on…and with the passing of each year, our case will only weaken. Most of us feel that this is done on purpose. Of course, ideally a nation should accept its wrong like Germany and then reparations should follow. My question to you is… How long should we wait for that recognition to come? If I sounded passionate it is in reaction to the recently signed protocols which have a clause in them that says that Armenia will recognize Turkey’s borders as legal, taking away the rightful claim/reparation for our historical lands; a clause insisted on by the Turkish side of course. The Armenian Genocide has been accepted by many prominent historians and IAGS itself (article we are commenting on). And yet… Turkey just keeps on disregarding these historians. The new commission will be a waste of money. We feel it is another way for Turkey to chip away at the factuality of the Genocide, and dilly dally its recognition.
Murat, if I sounded racist, shame on me. Racism in any form is ugly. However, the truth here is also ugly. The Armenian villeyets were subjected to very unfair taxes and regular massacres. One noteworthy one is the one perpetrated before the 1915 Genocide by Sultan Abdul Hamid, which had cost close to another 300,000 victims. In between, the Armenian community flourished thanks to their resiliency, hard work and talents which did not go unappreciated by the Turks who needed the services they rendered. That is why the Genocide took the Armenians completely off guard. Even the Armenian government officials that you are mentioning were killed. I have to mention though, that the fact that we even had any survivors at all was because some Turks risked their lives to help us. My grandmother’s Turkish neighbor hid her and claimed her as her own when the gendarmes knocked on her door. Another relative married an agha and converted to islam to survive. So, Armenians and Turks, had a very strange love and hate relationship. Massacre, and then sunny days where the Armenians would forgive and forget, very naively I might add, until the next down turn.
Murat, one thing that I completely agree with you on and have mentioned it before, is the fact that Turks are truely masterful in politics. Something we Armenians should learn from. It is everyone’s wish that we all live together, respectful and responsible of our histories. I do not wish for anything more than for the day where Turkey proves itself to be a great nation by accepting what its predecessor the Ottoman Empire has done, make the necessary reparations and allow us all to finally burry the 1.5 million and get on with our lives.
William Schabbas, thank you for your dedication.
Wow Katia! Well said. Yes I have many Turkish sailing friends and we love talking about boats, weather, navigation, etc. But the one discussion that we can’t have is about the Genocide since they don’t live in a free country. They are well aware of that however and I respect them enough not to put them on the spot by bringing it up. But I would like to be able to speak with them, as you have just done. I believe the average Turkish citizen secretly wants a dialogue and to be able to hear the facts and not what they are taught in school. Many Turkish scholars, writers and leaders have already shown their courage as they risk much to support the truth. So it won’t be just the Armenians that will benefit from acknowledgment but even the Turkish people will be freed from the intellectual confinement in which they find themselves. Again, well said Katia, and I am glad to see your heart is in the right place. BTW if you wish to read an excellent book on the real facts about the Native Americans I highly recommend “Black Elk Speaks” by John G. Niehardt.
Achket Louys, hokis!
Hye, and of course, thanks to William Schabas, President,
International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS)
for clarifying the starting point of discussion for
the status of the Armenian Genocide recognition.
Again, thank you. Additonally, many copies (ccs:)
shall have been sent to the UN, world media,
Congress of the USA, Secy/State(US) Clinton,
and the president of the USA, Obama Barack, Israel
and nations which cannot morally recognize the Armenian
Genocide…It seems these persons/organizations need to be
‘reminded’: the truths that the Armenian
Genocide, perpetrated by the Ottoman Turk, but
subsequent Turkish leaderships’ ploys insist in
denying this planned elimination of a peoples on
their own lands of nearly 4,000 years…
Howsomever, it appears to me
these same Turks, in their denials do insult the
IAGS by denying all the scholarly works of your
organization – a bullying mode – since Turks
‘speaks’ – yet are incapable of ‘hearing’…
Manooshag
If, as some above claim, land in Turkey can never be obtained by Armenians because “no one will go there” or “Turks and Kurds already live there”, then how did Armenians cleanse Artsakh? How did they cleanse the vast areas outside Artsakh, including Lachin? And how did they cleanse Armenia itself? No Azeris live there now.
The standard retort of the”we can never ever get land back from Turkey” crowd is that Turkey is bigger and more powerful than Azerbaijan. That may be true, but it certainly does not mean never-ever-no-way. Each case is a bit different.
The crowd that says “no land demands from Turkey can ever be made” is the same crowd that said “Armenia can’t beat Azerbaijan – it (and Artsakh) can never win.” Guess what? Armenians won.
As to the occupied territories and Artsakh itself, one could just as easily ask the nay-sayers, “Why don’t YOU move to Artsakh and if you’re not willing to there then no Armenian anywhere should ask for Artsakh.”
The naysayer crowd appears to me to be intellectually incapable of conceptualizing future possibilites and opportunities. Their thing is to go around like an 8 year old kid poking sticks into other Armenians and getting their jollies that way. They are indeed children.
Abris, Artemis. All realities start with a vision, a goal, an ideal. Who was predicting the fall of the Soviet Union and the establishment of the Republic of Armenia.We should never forsake our goals for Western Armenia.Our grandparents were not simply murdered, but their possessions were confiscated and illegally redistributed. In addition,the Armenian people were expelled from their historical homeland of 3000 years. When we push for genocide “recognition” to honor our grandparents and the future, we must also remember the other two implication of the genocide besides the murder of our nation…. loss of property and an indigenous presence in Anatolia.
Why should we deny our history? The end of theArmenian presence in eastern Anatolia was a crime
and is an integral part of recognition.
It’s heartening to hear people like Artemis and Stepan. I now only hope that the damage Sargsyan has made on several fronts –relations with Turkey, with the Diaspora and the rifts he has created within the Diaspora– can be healed without making the divisions too deep and long-lasting. We have had enough polarization in the Diaspora and vis-à-vis our relations with Armenia over the last century as to undergo more of that, and with more virulence.
Hye, we have a Covenant from those slaughtered, raped, kidnapped and more… a Covenant passed to those who survived the Turkish Genocide of the Armenia nation… Even further, we have a Covenant from our Survivors – our parents, grand parents and great grand parents who pass this Covenant to our generations today, and for as long as it takes… We can never forget the Genocide of our people.
The Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation shall be recognized by the civilized leaderships of the civilized nations and thus, the cycle of Genocides, the slaughter of innocents shall be ended – killing of humans by other humans is the most criminal of vile acts by despots to gain their own goals.
In 1918 Theodore Roosevelt said “the Armenian massacres was the greatest crime of the war (WWI)
and failure to act against Turkey IS TO CONDONE IT.”
Hence when the U.S. President fails to act to pursue Turkish governments who seek – even into today to ‘eliminate’ the existence of Armenians. Theodore Roosevelt saw the truths then. Our president is condoning the Genocide actions of the Turks… Thus his inaction against the Turk is also condoning all Genocides – even into the 21st century – the Darfurians, sadly. Politics win out over Morality. Sadly.
Manooshag
Robert,
I am sincerely happy that there are people like you in this world. Not many people outside the Armenian nationality are able to understand our culture, history, and mindset as you seem to. However, as far as your thinking of reparations go, i must disagree. I feel it should be the primary if not only effort. the world has recognized the act of genocide. that is enough for me. what some deranged politically biased country thinks of my past does not bother me at the least. I would not be offended if a schizophrenic man denied murdering a bunch of people because i would understand he is crazy and doesn’t understand reality. In our case that schizophrenic man is the republic of turkey. what is important is the now. Armenia has suffered the past 100 yeas a severe loss of human and monetary capital due to the evils perpetrated by the turks. Armenians have a right let alone the duty to demand any and all sorts of reparations. Why? because the justice demands it. people may have many opinions of what happened, but justice is singular and objective. anything short of full reparations is a slap to the face of humanity.
Ditto to that Tigran jan… Apres…
Dears Katia and Mihran: Excellent posts and I must add that the Turkish government of today owes us blood money in the form of our historical homeland: Our Gars, Ardahan, Ararat Mountain (Ikdir), Erzeroum, Erzinga, Van, Mush, Bingoel, Palu, Kharpert and Dikranagerd.
Good thoughts Tigran.
Armenians have only one option to sustain as a nation. Unite and develop modern weapon system so that they can speak with guns not only with tongs. More than fifty years ago, I was preaching to my fellow Armenians that Soviet Union will commit a big mistake and would cause its disintegration therefore we have to ready for it. Some of those older people than me were
asking me if they can see the independence of Armenia by their own eyes. I met some of those folks when we were celebrating the first day of our independence in Los Angeles California. I remind them our old debates about Armenian independence. They were so happy as if they were reincarnated as a free man. My message to the world is that Armenians are going demand justice from all of you. Just wait and see.
AMEN TO THAT PAPKEN JAN>>>>> AMENNNNNNNNNNNN
Papken jan, We Armenians wish to see that blessed day and I hope soon very soon. Nothing short of than our blood money from the Turks; our Erzerum, Erzinga, Kars, Ardahan, Van, Mush, Sassoun, Bingoel, Palu, Kharpert and Dikranagert. We all want to swim together in our beautiful Armenian Vana lidge!!!!!
Tigran, you said it all so well… Too, our pain and losses over years were borne, and too, together, our strengths regained… built upon all our generations of Armenians – into today!