Aubrey Herbert, British diplomat, adventurer, intelligence officer, and member of parliament, conducted a rare interview with Talat Pasha in February 1921, just days before his assassination in Berlin by Soghomon Tehlirian.
As all-powerful grand vizier of the Ottoman Empire, its despotic ruler and mastermind of the Armenian Genocide, Talat had fled Turkey in November 1918 to avoid prosecution by the new regime. The 23-page interview with Talat was published in 1924 (London) and 1925 (New York) in Herbert’s memoirs titled, Ben Kendim: A Record of Eastern Travel.
Herbert first met Talat in 1908 while stationed at the British Embassy in Constantinople (Istanbul). Eleven years later, Herbert received an unexpected letter from Talat seeking a meeting with him “in any neutral country.” Desperately seeking to rehabilitate his diabolical image in the West, Talat claimed that “he was not responsible for the Armenian massacres, that he could prove it, and that he was anxious to do so.” Herbert turned down Talat’s request telling him: “I was very glad to hear that it was not he who was responsible for the Armenian massacres, but that I did not think any useful purpose could be served by our meeting at that time.”
However, Herbert reversed his decision in February 1921, after Sir Basil Thomson, director of British Intelligence, ordered him to leave immediately for Germany and meet Talat. The secret rendezvous took place on Feb. 26, in the small German town of Hamm.
Talat told Herbert again that “he himself had always been against the attempted extermination of the Armenians.” More incredibly, Talat claimed that “he had twice protested against this policy, but had been overruled, he said, by the Germans.”
Forgetting his own claims of innocence in the massacres, Talat justified the mass killings by accusing Armenians of stabbing his country in the back during the war. Contradicting himself again, Talat declared his support for Armenians by claiming that “he was in favor of granting autonomy to minorities in the most extended form, and would gladly consider any proposition that was made to him.”
Talat then switched the blame to the British for the Armenian killings: “You English cannot divest yourselves of responsibility in this matter. We Young Turks practically offered Turkey to you, and you refused us. One undoubted consequence has been the ruin of Christian minorities, whom your prime minister has insisted on treating as your allies. If the Greeks and Armenians are your allies when we are at war with you, you cannot expect our Turkish government to treat them as friends.”
Herbert and Talat then decided to move to Dusseldorf, Germany, where they continued their discreet conversation for two more days. Herbert reported Talat’s paradoxical attempt to cover up his role in the Armenian Genocide, while justifying this heinous crime. Talat stated that “he had written a memorandum on the Armenian massacres which he was very anxious that British statesmen should read. Early in the war, in 1915, the Armenians had organized an army, and had attacked the Turks, who were then fighting the Russians. Three Armenian deputies had taken an active part; the alleged massacres of Moslems had taken place, accompanied by atrocities on women and children. He had twice opposed enforced migration, and he had been the author of an inquiry which resulted in the execution of a number of guilty Kurds and Turks.”
Ironically, Talat boldly told Herbert that he was not afraid of being assassinated. “He said that he never thought of it. Why should anyone dislike him? I said that Armenians might very well desire vengeance, after all that had been written about him in the papers. He brushed this aside.” Two weeks later, Talat was assassinated in Berlin by Soghomon Tehlirian!
Concluding his interview of Talat, Herbert observed: “He died hated, indeed execrated, as few men have been in their generation. He may have been all that he was painted—I cannot say. I know that he had rare power and attraction. I do not know whether he was responsible or not for the Armenian massacres.”
Only experts of that time period can verify the authenticity and accuracy of this lengthy interview. If true, what exactly were Talat’s aims in proposing “an Anglo-Turkish alliance” and why was the British government so anxious to talk to him?
Harut Sassounian
Interesting. Everyone on “death row” always claims they are innocent. If there is any truth to what Talat says in this interview, clearly there are written documents in the archives of history to support it. But, sadly, I doubt it.
Both the United States and the United Kingdome have refused to recognize the Armenian Genocide. It has been said that England in 1911 in a pact with Ottoman Turkey was given access to the Middle Eastern Oil fields. In return the British were to look the other way as Turkey massacred its minorities. As for the United States foreign policy it is influenced by the fact that the US has bases in Turkey and as a result will always support Turkish interests.
As United States know that the military bases and ballistic missal silos/bases are build on Armenian owned land most possibly by Bezdigian families, some survivors were in Aleppo Syria, they should gather proofs from Turkish archives which they not have changed hands and I believe the dead has not changed hands yet because owner has not released the dead by law.
The native Armenians were blamed by the Turks for the Turkish military setbacks in northern Turkey during WW1. The Armenian lands had been liberated by Russia during the 1877 war with the Ottomans. Talat, Enver, Djamel and the Germans wanted to eliminate the Armenians because they were a distraction to the war with Britain and Italy in Trans Jordan and Egypt.
unfortunately most Islamic countries, including Turkey, blame their disastrous criminal history and failures toward “infidels”, but themselves. Armenian Genocide was an orchestrated plan by Ottomans and accomplished by faithful CUP leaders.
Christian world, as usual remained indifferent, where UK and Germany were part of Satan’s “Great Powers”.
Architect not only of Genocide but also of 101 years of unbelievable Denial.
as a young boy in the AYF i remember arguing with a member of the ARS that i thought the germans may have been the reason behind our genocide,if this is true i feel vindicted,along with the English ,who to this day do not recognize the genocide ,are the true scumbags.
Germany most definitely had a hand in the Armenian Genocide, but that does not excuse Turkey in the least bit.
Example: there is a newspaper article from that time about the siege of Van. The Armenians there (note: the civilian population) put up a fierce resistance and had the city sealed off and through their resourcefulness made their own food and even manufactured their own guns and ammunition to continue defending themselves. The Turks were unable to penetrate the defenses of Van, and so what did they do? They brought in the German army with their massive guns to breach the defense.
Ultimately, the party most responsible for the Genocide is that which implemented then reaped the benefits of the crime: the modern day nation of “Turkey”. And besides Turkey, it is not just Germany which is guilty of the Armenian Genocide, either. Include in it France, the UK and the Soviet mafia family which clearly had ties to the Donmeh in the Ottoman empire. Germany helped Turkey to implement the Armenian Genocide during the war, but the others did the same after the war. And probably what happened after the war was a lot worse than before it: we got our nation destroyed, partitioned, and the bones handed to us, and the perpetrators of the crime got a free pass, and that damage is ongoing to this day.
My questions is where is the Armenian wealth Mr. Sassounian? lets follow the money. That will tell us volumes. This is all nonsense. The real purpose of the Armenian genocide was theft. Also, the whole back stabber excuse is ridiculous as the for one, the Armenians were the original inhabitants of those lands. Like saying the American Indians were traitors. Also Talaat should answer which race didn’t rebel against the oppressive Ottoman occupation of others? Who likes rape, theft and oppression? As if the minorities of Asia minor under Ottomans was utopia? More like pedophilia. For centuries. Rot in hell.
101 years later look what is happening to Syrian Armenians ?/ what happened to Lebanon Armenians. Behind the so called civil Wars’ of the Middle East is the Pan-Turanism ideals to wipe the Christians – Armenians – from these areas… All the “Big NATIONS” are deaf & Blind for the loss of innocent people .. and what is happening to the wealth/monuments/centers of the people who are leaving EVERYTHING Behind just to save their lives…. this is just an ongoing massacre since 1975……..continuing what is left from 1915