“On March 1, we will hang them by their feet and chop off their heads” said Ashot, a taxi driver in Armenia. “They are sucking the life out of this nation through their corrupt and oligarchic practices.”
In the three years since my cab ride with Ashot, the Republic of Armenia has held parliamentary and presidential elections that have neither changed the government, nor the oligarchic system in place.
In fact, Armenia has not experienced a significant political change since President Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s resignation in 1998. But while the country has remained in a hibernation mode, the world around it has changed.
The revolutionary wave that originated in the Middle East has recently swept the globe. With uprisings in Venezuela, Thailand, and more significantly in Ukraine, there is a growing urgency to the question: Will revolution arrive to Armenia?
In a recent interview with RFE/RL’s Armenian service, Armen Martirosian, the deputy chairman of the Heritage Party stated, “If the revolutionary wave in Ukraine succeeds, it can reach Armenia.”
At this critical stage, I can’t help but recall the remainder of my conversation with Ashot.
When I arrived at my destination, I noticed that the taximeter was off. I inquired about the fare, and Ashot replied, “1,000 drams.” In truth, it was a regular 600 AMD route in the center of Yerevan. Nonetheless, I handed him the 1,000 drams and asked, “Have you heard of Michael Jackson?”
Ashot replied, “Of course I have. Who hasn’t?”
As I was leaving the cab, I smiled and told him, “Mr. Ashot! You should consider listening to MJ’s ‘Man in the Mirror’ before you go around chopping people’s heads off.”
Ashot is neither the norm nor the exception. Corruption exists in every country around the world, but it has a unique mold in Armenia. It is prevalent in the government, the opposition parties, non-governmental organizations, and even within the church. More importantly, corruption, nepotism, and cronyism are engrained in Armenian society.
Unfortunately, most of the opposition is not interested in bringing change to Armenia, but rather in the illusion of change. They seek to replace the ruling elite, while preserving the oligarchic system. Their objective is simple: assume positions of power that would enable them to benefit from the existent rotten system.
In the midst of this scandalous power struggle between the government and the opposition, the Armenian nation has to ensure that its national security is preserved. More importantly, the nation needs to realize that the blueprint of a true Armenian transformation has already been laid out.
In July 2013, following the government’s decision to increase the public transportation fares, the Armenian youth held a series of protests in central Yerevan, which resulted in the reversal of that law. This act of civil disobedience, along with the Mashdots Park movement also spearheaded by the youth, constitute the most successful campaigns for change in the 23-year history of the Republic of Armenia. Most importantly, these campaigns were not initiated or led by any political party.
For years, Armenians in both the diaspora and Armenia have claimed that a generational change is needed to transform the republic. Well, in case people have failed to realize, the generational change has already occurred, and whether we admit it or not, the youth in Armenia is brighter than ever.
Nonetheless, with each passing day, the possibilities for change diminish, as corrupt practices are further consolidated.
The time for change is now!
A Revolution by the youth and for the people is in order…
Sarkis Balkhian
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Do revolution in the country YOU live, not ours.
Or if you like to see and live the consequences, go to Lybia and enjoy the fruits of revolution… or Egypt, or Syria as a matter of facts.
It’s destruction and disaster. And propogating it is a crime.
I guess revolution in Armenia did not have to be like Egypt and Syria after all
Be careful what you wish for. Revolutions have never brought a better system into place. We have ample examples from the past decade alone to justify my assertion. I do agree though that corruption is embedded among Armenians, that includes those in the Diaspora. I agree also that the youth are the only ones who can bring positive and forward moving change to our nation.
Yea, let’s have a revolution it is fashionable. Screw the people. Let’s have an Orange revolution like our neighbor Georgia and if we are lucky we will not lose territory. Let’s create chaos as in Tunisia, Libya, Syria and now Ukraine. Let the big powers manipulate us and give our two other neighbors something to cheer about. Go man go.
Dear Sarkis,
Considering your age your above post is well versed and written.Almost as though by an experienced journalist.I wish you further success and accumulation of more EXPERIENCE in line with the aforementioned. Only around the end of your otherwise logically composed article /report is to be encouraged.Now please read what a more experienced activist(that , in Europe mainly)has to say about it.
(R)Evolution is what is needed in Armenia and that-I agree-by the young-not those middle aged and advanced in age who have lived through the soviet regime and the present 23yrs New so called ¨¨Free market Economy¨ turned into a ¨Wild Free market Economy¨.
Now then what should the young do:-As you mentioned the peaceful TWO above showdowns were successful and I wish to God the future ones will follow suit in said manner.That is as peaceful as before and if grown into a HUGE ONE…that also in same fashion.Peaceful one(s).
I am all for it. But on the other hand I wish to reqeust/appeal the Young to also ALWAYS HAVE IN MIND THAT OUR TWO beautiful neighbours are fast at work to counter our dirve for Genocide Recognition and EVADE BEING HELD RESÑPONSIBLE FOR DAMGES,RESTITUTION-COMPENSATION for the 1.5 million people´çs blood shed.The youth/Young should be alerted that in case of any -whatsover- instigations by(indeed Turkish-Axeri agents amongst us here in Diaspora and RA) are to change the EVOLUTION INTO Arab like violent ones …to outright REFUSE IT AND KEEP TO THE PEACEFUL ONE. For our National interests are above OLIGARKY AND CORRUPTION.As you point out-sadly-the whole world is engaged in corruption.Let´s not forget that.So.First Nation/State priority then peacefull Evolutional acts to change to the better the ¨System of a Down¨
This is an article that makes the point without concentrating on a single official or making specific accusations without substantial proof. Along the same argument made by the author the taxi drivers and riders were complaining of bribes given to traffic cops (1000 dram,
$ 2.5 ) yet when the government put his grip on the cops, the same people started complaining that the penalties written for simple traffic violations (10,000 dram $ 25 or more) is unfair. One caby even said he rather have the old bribes because not only he pays $ 25 a ticket, he also has to pay at a central location which is a waste of his 2 hours. Make up your mind people, do you want democracy or oligarchy.
“In fact, Armenia has not experienced a significant political change since President Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s resignation in 1998.”
More like since 1999 parliament attack, when Vazgen Sargsyan and Karen Demirchyan were shot dead. If it wasn’t for that episode, I’m sure Armenia would be better off now. Vazgen and Karen were no saints, but one thing I know for sure is that they did care about the people, unlike our three presidents who are either power-thirsty (Levon) or simple criminals (Robert and Serzh). Vazgen was openly taking about Armenia’s problems just before the assassination and many people did have the faith in him.
And also, things have gotten much worse since 2008. Although the society has grown, only a very small part of it has done so. The youth, which the author mentioned, doesn’t know how to make changes. Fighting for transportation fees is pretty stupid for me, because there needs to be a revolution in social terms, not just govt change or transport fees. The corruption is everywhere, in schools, hospitals, you name it. People who realize that this cannot and should not continue are the ones that are going to ever make changes in Armenia.
Dear Mr. Hovhannes,
I agree with you completely on your analysis of the events.
The reason why I said, “In fact, Armenia has not experienced a significant political change since President Levon Ter-Petrosyan’s resignation in 1998,” instead of mentioning the Oct. 27 events, is because I personally view the Parliament shootings as an “anti-change” event. It did not change anything, it prevented change from happening. Between Ter-Petrosyan’s resignation and Oct. 27, 1999 a significant change had not occurred in Armenia, but it was in the making. The Parliament shooting simply stopped Vazken and Karen Demirjian from bringing a significant change to the country.
I guess, we agree on a lot if the issues, but we have different perspectives re. the Oct. 27 events.
Thank you.
Sarkis
“The time for change is now! A Revolution by the youth and for the people is in order…”
Perfect point. As I have said many times, unless Armenia changes into a true democracy soon, it will not exist as a state much longer. With Azerbaijan’s military budget growing by the day (and larger than Armenia’s entire budget), and with Armenia hemorrhaging demographically, it is only a matter of time until Armenia implodes. Assuming that the current semi-authoritarian system remains. The point for Armenia’s government to realize is that Armenia’s people are not going to wait for change in perpetuity. Unless the government changes voluntarily, there will be revolution.
The events in Ukraine (what a heroic people, indeed) prove that Armenia cannot blindly trust and rely on the whims of a criminal state such as Russia. Armenia needs to be able to rely on itself. For that, Armenia needs the trust of its people, and for that, it needs democracy. Now.
Stop stirring and rejoicing over the idea. The events in Ukraine prove that we do not need a chaos like that.
Why not try the experiment in your own Azerbaijan, first?
“gina” (or whoever the hell you are),
if you are so concerned with democracy in Azerbaijan, then it is your own Azerbaijan. I am concerned with the Armenian people, and so I advocate democracy in Armenia.
Yep, he is more interested in chaos for Armenia than for the sake of improvement.
So Mr V, Don’t you think Turkey and Azerbaijan need ‘democracy’ and ‘revolution’ infinitely more than Armenia, in light of Turkey being the land of jailed journalists and Azerbaijan the land of terrorist heroes and unhappy self-immolators?
Mr. D, democracy gives strength. The moment Azerbaijan becomes a democracy, Armenia is finished. The only thing now keeping Azerbaijan from realizing its full potential is its lack of democracy (and the consequent corruption). Hence, any “Armenian” proposing democracy in Azerbaijan is either working for the enemy, is too naive, or is not a real Armenian.
Vahagiyev,
Hopefully you’re on the Aliyev payroll for making a fool of yourself.
“The moment Azerbaijan becomes a democracy, Armenia is finished”
Ha ha ha, why are you giving away such state secrets and putting your income in danger?
I had no idea you Azeris could launch a war under a democracy and finish off Armenia rather than a wanna-be Sultanate dictatorship. You Musavatlings are a lot worse than I thought.
Hagopoghlu,
It’s good that you are admitting what you don’t know. That is why I am here to educate you. Azerbaijan can squash Armenia like a little bug, given its potential. Azerbaijan is rich in natural resources. Armenia has few if any natural resources. Azerbaijan’s GPD is much higher than Armenia’s. Azerbaijan’s military budget is much higher than Armenia’s entire state budget. If you can’t find out the actual numbers, ask me, and I will let you know how to google. Democracy will allow Azerbaijan to utilize this potential and unleash its human potential. Then, we are talking about the reincarnation of the Irevan khanate.
“Vahagn,”
First, calm down before you type. That type of language is unacceptable.
Second, I think it is clear what you want and what I was referring to. Democracy is not what you are concerned about even though you keep abusing the term. Your dream is a bloody revolution in Armenia. So try that experiment in your Azerbaijan.
“gina,”
Jjust because something seems “clear” to you does not mean your view is shared by more intelligent Armenians. Furthermore, the fact that you want democracy in Azerbaijan only means that it is YOUR Azerbaijan. It is simple logic.
This very special report may be of interest to you.
Armenia’s Monetary Landscape: A Snapshot
http://keipr.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/amlas012014x.pdf
This report unravels key aspects of Armenia’s monetary reality in a graphic discussion. It is entirely based on data provided by the Central Bank of Armenia, with a select number of other sources that are identified when due.
The report reveals that there may be a lurking crisis of confidence in the national currency Dram (AMD). With a 70% dollarization ratio, Armenia’s key monetary challenge seems to be trust and confidence in itself.
Indeed, Armenia’s growing external debt figures, high dollarization ratios, and trade and investment performance suggest the need for institutional reform and a policy revamp aimed at reestablishing trust through a common vision of prosperity.
The report looks at money supply, deposit and loan dollarization, external debt, and foreign currency flows. It identifies key policy issues, and suggests a corporate strategy matrix that can help public and private decision makers address the monetary reality of Armenia today.
Dear Mr. Papazian,
Thank you for sharing this valuable report on Armenia’s Monetary Landscape, and for the work that you put into it. I’ve read many reports on Human Rights issues and corruption in Armenia, but not too many economic reports dealing with the economic aspect of the challenges facing Armenia. Thank you for sharing it with everyone. I look forward to reading it.
Sincerely,
Sarkis Balkhian
Tthe current Armenia is corrupt obviously, but rather than having a revolution as this writer suggests, what might be a better solution is to gradually change the corrupt mentality that is so prevalent in Armenian society, and that starts with raising our youth with complete integrity and teaching them the proper morality. But the wheeling and dealing of Armenians is hard to overcome since in some situations it isn’t such a bad quality to have and does quite well in more established counties such as the USA. As time goes on and if Armenia can survive and become a more established country some of these moral problems will gradually go away without having to have such dramatic consequences that revolutions often have. Patience is a virtue as they say and this might be a better approach in regard to the current Armenia.
Sarkis : You say corruption exists in every country in the world. Check transparency International and you will see that you statement is not correct. We should study the Nordic Countries to find out why they are not corrupt
Dear Mr. Antonio,
I do read reports by the Economist, Transparency International, Human Rights Watch, etc.
I agree that Scandinavian Countries or Nordic Countries have a functioning democracy with a sound rule of law, however, the reason why I shared Ashot’s story is to highlight the fact that when we say corruption, we should not only focus on institutionalized corruption by a government but rather the prevalence of corruption amongst all layers of the society.
Although I have not conducted an extensive investigation about the state of corruption in Scandinavian countries, and maybe they are truly exempt from corruption on an institutional level and governmental level. Nonetheless, I stick by my belief that, where there are humans, there is corruption, nepotism, and cronyism.
Thank you for your comment.
Sincerely,
Sarkis
Si Sr. Antonio,
Tiene usted todo loa razon.Armenian nuestro pais deberia haber seguido el ejemplo de los paises Escandinavos…desafortunadamente no lo hizo ni el partido Tashnag(que mas) tendencias tiene hacia estos lo hizo.
Aun ahora no es tarde. ARF(en mi opinion) podria cambiar un tanto su nombre como AEF(Federacion Evolucionario Armenio) y tratar de iniciar cambios ,primero en su propio Agenda y despues sugerirlo al Gobierno de R de Armenia.En brfeve, en vez de seguir haciendo lo que hasta ahora ha seguido, copiar del todo las reglas del gobernacion en los paises Escandinavos. Sin embargo ,como hasta ahora Armenia ha convenientemente seguido el modelo de los paises del Oeste,este transformacion sera bastante dificil a consesguir.Hemos de hechar una mano desde la Diaspora.A este respeto estoy escribiendo a muchos diarios y semanales Armenio( que jamas lo publican) debido que lo mio no es de ningun ideologia,voy enviando muchos emails a gente conocido y amigos.
Espero algun dia ver Armenia libre de la corrupcion de los paises de “‘Free market Economy” que al parecer ,en el mundo se ha visto cambiado a unos bestiales…el hcecho es todos lo demas 14 republicas ex sovietico se han visto envuelto en esta systema de DOWN(System of a Down)
Respetuosamente.
Let’s wait a few more centuries before we can try this “independence” thing again. In the meanwhile, I have something to say to the most honorable president of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin: Please Mr. President, please come to Armenia and make sure to bring your troops with you (with or without insignias) and help us put an end our misery.
PS: Better to live like Ossetians under Russian rule – than live like a bunch of self-destructive peasants and gypsies unable to govern themselves. Yes, history does repeat itself and more things change the more they stay the same.
Instead of making treacherous comments like this one, begging to be dominated and invaded, you can pack your bags and move to Russia. In fact, do yourself a favor and go enlist in the Russian Army. We don’t need people like you in Armenia, and I hope that you and your broken, inefficient and self-pitying personality stay as far away from Armenia as possible.
Mr. Balkhian:
Your bio at the side of the article says you are based in Boston. So you (mostly) live in US, not Armenia*: correct ?
You also wrote the following:
{“ The revolutionary wave that originated in the Middle East has recently swept the globe. With uprisings in Venezuela, Thailand, and more significantly in Ukraine, there is a growing urgency to the question: Will revolution arrive to Armenia?”}
And then the closing:
{“ The time for change is now! A Revolution by the youth and for the people is in order…”}
Sir, are you advocating for an uprising and ‘A Revolution’ ala ‘Venezuela, Thailand, and more significantly in Ukraine,’ – in RoA ?
Do you know how many people have been killed in Venezuela and Thailand to date ?
In Ukraine, about 100 people have been killed so far.
Hundreds injured; some crippled.
A bunch of street thugs in fine European suits have illegally seized power by ‘democratic’ means: orchestrated riots, violence, death threats against MPs and their families, murder of police officers, arson, theft, looting, mayhem.
One of the Maidan ‘democratic’ leaders, Aleksandr Muzychko , was videotaped openly, publicly threatening, assaulting, choking and battering a hapless young prosecutor.
Another time, he crashed a meeting of Ukrainian public officials, put his AK-47 and bayonet on the table and dared them to take it from him.
Those are the people in charge of Kiev now.
The alleged ‘Revolutionaries’ fired a bunch of the old-guard oligarchs and installed their new, improved buddy-buddy oligarchs in their place to rule the hoi polloi.
plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
The country is on the verge of bankruptcy.
Pensions for old people have already been cut 50%.
And the worst is yet to come for Ukraine.
Hooray for ‘A Revolution’.
Hooray for ‘The time for change is now!’
Yeah, real democratic ‘time for change now!’ in Ukraine: Ukrainian ‘people’ (aka U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria ‘f___ EU’ Nuland) democratically discuss even before Yanukovich was forced to flee for his life, which one of the chosen marionettes the ‘people’ of Ukraine (aka Western Neocons) will ‘elect’ to rule and loot a prostrate Ukraine.
Ukraine is on the verge of a civil war; a three-way split between West , East, and South is a virtual certainty.
And you Sir cannot possibly not know that the Maidan so-called ‘revolutionaries’ in Ukraine are anti-Semitic neo-Nazi brown shirts that overthrew a legally elected President by use of violence and murder. Beer Hall Putsch redux, except Nazis succeeded this time.
The criminals of Maidan, unsurprisingly, had their sniper-assassins murder Ukrainian police officers and innocent civilians, and then publicly blamed Pres Yanukovich. (yeah, they did: FM of Estonia confirmed it when talking to EU’s Ashton via phone)
Sure: ‘A Revolution’ has done wonders for the three countries you mentioned.
So is that what you want to happen in Armenia ?
Will you put your own safety (life?) on the line for ‘A Revolution’ ?
And if Armenian blood is spilled on the streets of Yerevan, where will you be Mr. Balkhian: Yerevan or Boston ?
FOOTNOTE
* Nothing wrong there, in and of itself: I live in California; difference is, I do not advocate for ‘A Revolution’ in RoA from the comfort and safety of my dwelling in USA.
Sadly, Armenia lost more lives. as a percentage of its population, in March 2008 than Ukraine has in the recent disturbances. If there is any prospect of bringing about needed change without street violence and the inevitable attendant losses, it is worth pursuing that course. “Good mafia” can, if they try, counter “bad mafia.”
John Evans is right. Armenia has lost and will continue to lose more lives (through exodus) going down the same path than it will in the case of a revolution. Though, there is some truth to the claim that revolution is useless without the evolution of minds, but when people who do not care about the country, its future nor its well-being are in charge, what more can you do but get rid of them? We all talk about a strong army to defend Armenia, but how is that going to happen when nearly half of its able-bodied citizens are living abroad? Armenia must be independent from within before it can independent on the foreign policy arena. Armenia’s current leadership allows for none of that to happen; if anything, the reverse is happening.
Regarding Ukraine, the solution for Ukraine is federalism. I have always said that the best model of democracy is the U.S. democracy. For Armenia, I have advocated the adoption of a constitution modeled after the U.S. one. Same goes for Ukraine, and that includes giving its regions the autonomy enjoyed by states of the U.S.. The formula has created miracles in U.S., in Switzerland, in Germany, which are all federal states. Ukrainians are heroic people, but they need to win the heart and minds of the Russian-speaking areas. Even in Crimea, the autonomy is nowhere near that of a U.S. state (e.g. even in Crimea, the governor needs to be approved by Ukraine’s president, a big no-no in a federal state). Federalism and a U.S.-style democracy will make Ukraine invincible to any foreign threat (why would the Russians in Ukraine wish to live under Putin’s dictatorship when Russia’s Russians themselves are leaving Russia?).
And that is one lesson learned from the Ukrainian revolution. Any revolution in Armenia will need to quickly move to work on a new constitution, and to be inclusive of all major players in the republic. This way, there will be no traitors willing to invite and support any foreign power (again, why live under foreign dictatorship, when they will have freedom in a democratic state?).
The idea that Armenia will be “partitioned” like Ukraine in the event of a revolution is ludicrous. First, Ukraine is not being partitioned. It’s under Russian military aggression, which is likely to be reversed once international pressure on Putin the thug becomes unbearable (his corrupt country heavily relies on the West). If Ukrainians establish the right kind of democracy, this could be the beginning of a strong and prosperous Ukraine. Second, unlike Ukraine, Armenia is homogenous, making partition extremely unlikely. Third, democracy will unite and energize Armenia’s people, making any foreign interference that much harder to succeed. This was the case in Armenia’s 1988 peaceful revolution, without which the Karabakh victory would be impossible. As other examples from history, democratic Greece defeated Persian Empire, revolutionary France defeated the rest of Europe, and democratic Switzerland was the only country in Europe not invaded by Hitler.
Sure, revolutions are unpredictable, but for Armenia, not bringing democratic change will be much costlier. The hemorrhaging emigration and apathy of the population will keep weakening the country, as in 1920, until it will not be ready to withstand a foreign attack. Ideally, the solution would be peaceful change without a violent revolution. Even then, the threat of revolution is a useful and realistic pressure on the government. The government needs to get the message, that until there is democratic change, there will at some point be revolution.
So an autonomous republic with its own regional parliament and constitution isn’t federal? Oh and guess what, some of the best democracies in the world, ones far superior to the US, do not have federalism.
“As other examples from history, democratic Greece defeated Persian Empire, revolutionary France defeated the rest of Europe, and democratic Switzerland was the only country in Europe not invaded by Hitler.”
Democratic Greece defeated the Persian Empire? Do you get your history lessons from the movie 300? In the first Persian invasion, Greek regions outside the mainland were conquered by the Persians- even after the decisive defeat by the Persians at the Battle of Marathon. During the Second invasion, a Greek victory, nonetheless resulted the Persians sacking Athens. Not to mention that A: there is absolutely no link to suggest that democracy played any role in the Greek eventual superiority and B: not many Greek states were as democratic as Athens.
Switzerland essentially just got lucky. They made economic concessions to Germany, posed no real threat to them, and Germany had more pressing matters than Switzerland. The Swiss were also lucky to have the Alps. The military withdrew to the mountains, got the high ground, and hoped that their capability to inflict large losses on the Germans would put the costs of invading more than the benefits: fully knowing they could not hold back a full scale invasion. Not to mention Hitler and the Nazis being more tolerant of a nation they saw as German. Plus, the fact that this Utopian haven only admitted 600 or so refugees in from 1933 to 1945, and helping the Jews trapped in Germany or other parts of Europe.
Revolutionary France? The revolution that overthrew the monarchy and replaced it with the reign of Terror of the Jacobins and Robespierre? Or the Revolution that replaced the Reign of Terror with the Directoire? The directoire, famous for their “white terror” and ignored the constitution, disregarded elections, and ruled through a police state. OR, did you mean the French Revolution that overthrew the directoire and replaced it with Napoleon? The same Napoleon who crowned HIMSELF “emperor?” Or the French revolution that ended with Napoleons defeat and the restoration of the Bourbon monarchy? Perhaps reading some Alexis de Tocqueville will be good for you ignorance on this matter.
“The hemorrhaging emigration and apathy of the population will keep weakening the country, as in 1920, until it will not be ready to withstand a foreign attack.”
And who, in 1920, prevented the Turks from finishing what they started? Russia.
Thank God there are smart Armenians like you who realize the value that a truly democratic state would bring. Economic success, robust and independent foreign policy, and a diaspora that will be more eager than ever to invest in their country and help make it a better place because they’ll know their investments and efforts won’t be subject to random faux taxes and selective enforcement of the law like it is in Russia.
Russia may be giving the US and the West a very hard time right now, and maybe might even succeed in doing so, but what’s going to happen to Russia once Putin passes away? All of this dependence on one man has negative repercussions for Russian political life. The country has gone on for years without meaningful development of political discourse, strong civil society, and a legitimate leader who can freely and fairly rise to power and represent Russia. Russia would be a much, much more powerful country if it flexed its muscle not by turning of some gas valves and making people who don’t agree with it freeze, but by being a country that respects the rule of law, the right to freedom of expression, and individuality. Putin’s death will be an extremely difficult and tumultuous time in Russia because Russia and its allies have lagged behind Europe in terms of establishing the real factors that make a country strong, independent and stable. The US is a perfect example of that– for years America has experienced a transition of power but still maintained relative stability. I don’t think that stability will be there once Putin passes and is no longer running the show in Russia.
Even more dangerous is that with Putin’s departure, Armenia, if we continue down this path of attaching ourselves completely to Russia, will in grave danger if the West gives a go-ahead to renewed fighting in the region as a means of punishing us. Putting all of your eggs in one basket is extremely dangerous, especially with a country like Russia that is making more and more enemies, left and right.
I agree wholeheartedly!! Armenia should become an Athenian style democracy. 1)Citizenship should be limited to those with Athenian Greek parents on both sides. 2) A democratic empire should be established over the neighboring areas from which we would extract a harsh tribute 3) We should genocide any who refuse to pay tribute the way the Athenians genocided the Melians. 4) Democratic Armenian society a la Athens should rest on a broad base of slavery. The slaves would do all our manual labor and we, the citizens, would be free to pursue intellectual and philosophical matters.
Yes: Great ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY FOR ARMENIA!!
To Orun Yıldırım (posting as RVDV): Ukraine is a unitary state. It’s a basic fact. Even with Crimea. Crimea is far less autonomous than a U.S. state. As I clearly wrote, the chief executive of Crimea (equivalent of the governor) needs to be approved by Ukraine’s president. And Ukraine’s parliament can decide its regions’ official language, which pissed off the locals. Read Ukraine’s constitution to educate yourself:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine,_2004
I don’t know how you define “better democracy” when talking about non-federalist countries supposedly better than the U.S., but none of these countries is wealthier (in terms of GDP) or more powerful than the U.S. And none attracts greater number of immigrants than the U.S., which is why your parents brought you from the slums of Istanbul to grow up in the Georgia, U.S. instead of these other “better” democracies.
The Greco-Persian wars did not end with the destruction of Athens. They lasted till 449 BC and ended with complete and decisive Greek victory, including the liberation of Greek cities in Asia Minor. There is, in fact, direct link between Greek democracy and the Greek victory. Democratic Athens led the campaign against Persia and established the Delian league. Democracy gave Athenians a sense of ownership in their country, motivating citizen-soldiers to form an effective army.
Noone was lucky in Hitler-era Europe. Switzerland was the only non-Fascist country in continental Europe not invaded by Hitler not because of some luck, but because its excellent military deterred Hitler. This in turn was aided by Swiss federal democracy, where citizens were motivated to fight for their country, and where rule of law and shrewd leadership led to a strong economy to support such military. Without the military deterrent, all other factors would be worthless to stop an invasion. A German-speaking population would actually give Hitler incentive to invade, as Hitler’s ideology centered on uniting German speaking peoples.
The French revolution lasted from 1789 till 1799. It did not include Napoleon’s leadership. In fact, Napoleon’s dictatorship ended the revolution and eventually brought France to a disaster. Revolutionary France, due to the galvanizing effect on the population, made spectacular victories against the rest of Europe that could not be even dreamed by the Bourbon kings, and all that before Napoleon’s leadership. Sure, there was terror, which was one of the mistakes of the revolution, which is why it eventually failed. Before worrying about Tocqueville, you may want to learn more basic facts that will help you with your ignorance.
Your comment on Russia “saving” Armenia in 1920 is completely irrelevant. The point of my post was that the apathy of the population, which was exacerbated by an undemocratic government, led to defeat of Armenia. In fact, before “saving” Armenia, Russia helped its destruction by stirring up Bolsheviks, taking half of Armenia’s territory (Karabakh, Zangezur, and Nakhichevan) in the summer of 1920, supplying weapons to Kemalists, and eventually dividing Armenia with Kemal and giving them Kars. All made possible, of course, by the undemocratic government’s inability to have its people’s trust.
Vahagn: Or perhaps “wikipedia warrior” is more accurate, a little lesson on the Turkish language. “Orun” is not a Turkish word, it has no meaning. There is not a single person in Turkey named “Orun”. So no, that is not my name.
You wanna talk GDP? The only way to gauge true wealth is not by simply looking at GDP numbers but to break it down per capita- to remove factors like population size. By this more accurate standard, the US, in per capita GDP. In these terms, the US is 13th (8th among sovereign states)–> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
Immigration? You need to look at net migration rates per 100 thousand for an accurate reading. The US ranks 29th here. –>https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html
Finally, on a personal note: my family did not leave Turkey for financial reasons. Not even close. I would have lived a much more privileged life had I grown up in Istanbul.
To ancient Greece: why couldn’t their democracy save them from the Romans? Or do you have some great revelation about the hidden democratic nature of the Byzantine empire?
To Switzerland: please educate me on what is so special about Swiss democracy. Why did democracy in Switzerland prevent German invasion, but democracy in the rest of western Europe failed to prevent a German invasion? Federalism or…. The Alps which gave the Swiss an incredible natural invasion that, say, the low countries did not have?
France: this is where a five second wikipedia search and simplified websites will fail you. The French revolution is one of the most complicated topics in modern history. There is no consensus on what, at its core, it even was. The French revolution met its true end in 1815. Napoleon was born of the revolution and rose to power because of it. He was the product of the revolution. I must insist on Alexis de Tocqueville.
The defeat of the first Armenian republic was not due to apathy: it was due to war. A war which Armenia was losing to Turkey. You criticize Russia all you want, but recognize that without Russia, “Armenia” may have only been confined to history books today.
You also seem to forget (unbelievably) that 1920 is still in the time period considered to be the Armenian genocide. You think they were emigrating from an undemocratic regime??? You think DEMOCRACY was a greater problem than MURDER at the hands of the Turkish army? The Soviets did no favors for Armenia when it took over- but they may very well have saved its very existence. What’s more important when 1.5 million plus of your population was just murdered- survival or debating what kind of electoral system you should have? Fighting for their existence, cornered by the Turks and offered help only by the Soviets- as insincere as they may have been. So before you complain about the lack of democracy in Armenia from 1918-1920, appreciate the fact those men and women did their very best in the given circumstances to ensure the survival of the Armenian nation. Without their efforts, sacrifices, and courage, Armenia could have gone down the way of the Assyrians.
To Ithink: I said that Armenia should adopt a U.S.-style democracy, not Athenian style. You clearly did not read right.
To Yıldırım (RVDV): Fine, your name is Onur Yıldırım, not Orun. Hope that satisfies you. Not really interested in the Turkish language, never have been, I am fine with the languages I know.
Regarding Immigration and GDP of U.S. You seem to pick definitions that are convenient to you. Net migration rate is not overall migration. It is migration per certain number (say, 1000) of population. It’s misleading to compare U.S. to countries with smaller-population countries, as any migration will have greater impact on a smaller population. When you compute full migration (Iet me know if you need help with the arithmetic), U.S. leaves all other countries in the dust. Around 1 million people permanently move in to the U.S. per year. No one even comes close. I don’t care why your family came to the U.S., each has their reasons, but the fact is that they did, and so do one million others per year. The point is, more people want to move in to the U.S. than any other country. That is what gives economic and military strength to a country.
Same with GDP. You say real measure of wealth is not entire GDP but per capita? Well, that’s your opinion. As with migration, comparing the U.S. GDP per capita with small-population countries is misleading. Of course Luxemburg is going to have greater GDP per capita, as even a small increase in national income will have greater impact. When you compare U.S. GDP per capita to countries with comparable populations, again, none comes close to U.S. The U.S. has the greatest GDP in the world, which translates to greater military power and greater ability to affect the world.
Athenian democracy failed because it was imperfect. It was a crude majoritarian rule which did not have the robust safeguards of judicial independence, due process, and individual rights available in the U.S. democracy. As a result, talented generals such as Alchibiades escaped bogus prosecution and went to the enemy’s side during the Peleponesus war, which spelled the end of the Athenian democracy, and the eventual fall of Greeks to Macedonia. After Macedonia, a dictatorship, it was a matter of time before being conquered by someone else, as dictatorships eventually commit fatal mistakes.
No, Switzerland was not invaded by Hitler because of Alps. Hitler easily conquered mountainous Yugoslavia and Greece. Swiss Alps themselves had been easily conquered by Revolutionary France 150 years earlier, so it should not have been impossible for Hitler to do it. Of course, during Revolutionary France, Switzerland was a weak confederacy. It became a strong federation after the 1848 constitution and later amendments, which were adopted, in part, on the U.S. model. Other democracies, such as France, failed to Hitler because they were imperfect parliamentary systems with paralyzed governments. Switzerland was parliamentary too, but it had federalism, which, as in the case of the U.S., gives strength and prosperity (i.e. locals feel less smothered than in a unitary government).
France and Napoleon. Again, you seem to pick definitions that suit you. Historians consider the French revolution to last until 1799 and not include Napoleon. In fact, Napoleon was blamed to have betrayed the revolution even by his contemporaries. Even if you want to stick Napoleon into the Revolutionary period, his dictatorship, as any dictatorship, committed grave mistakes and nearly destroyed France. The French Revolution, even before Napoleon, made spectacular victories against the rest of Europe, (including hitherto undefeated Suvorov, my compatriot).
Regarding Armenia in 1920, as a Turk, you clearly know far less about Armenian history than I do. The Armenian prime minister Kachaznuni stated that the Armenian army refused to fight against the Turks. Kars was surrendered almost without resistance. And Armenia was a one-party dictatorship. As for the Genocide, the year 1919 was an interruption in the Genocide (due to Turkish defeat). In the first nine months of 1920, Kemalists did not even touch Armenia (they were busy massacring Armenians in Marash, Aintap, and Hajn). The Armenian government had plenty of time to adopt an efficient democracy modeled after existing democracies (say, the U.S.). In fact, the Allies repeatedly blamed Armenia for not creating a sustainable administration. Even if we assume that Armenia did not have time to adopt an optimal democracy, it does not have that excuse now, after 20 years of independence.
As for Russia saving Armenia, Russia, as I stated, first weakened and divided Armenia before “saving” it. One more such “saving” by Russia, and nothing will be left of Armenia.
Dear Ambassador Evans,
As long as Artsakh security is not resolved, then does not matter who is bad or good Mafia. Armenia’s geopolitical location is more important to Russia than US interest, otherwise Turkey would have never put a precondition, for a “landlocked” country like Armenia!
Almost every politically minded Armenian knows well that war will not break out in the Caucasus -unless given green light by the powers that are there.Encrusted mainly in energy producing substance.it is LOSS plain loss for them if that occurs.NK is a fait a complit-I wouldn´t worry about that either. Unless…we press more for Western armenian Lands from great Turkey.Which we cannot logically do so,not against a near million strong army there.
What we can try to accomplish is come to some sort of entente with smaller brother Azerbaijan.I have recently ¨suggested¨declare it as PRINCIPALITY OF NAGORNYI KARABAGH(LIKE ANDORRA)and a FREE TRADE ZONE. which also was a bone of contention between France and Spain for 4 centuries,from 1607 until later when presidents of France and Spain(Archbishop of Seo DÜrgell )are co presidents there.Actually MORE CATALAN-SPANIARDS THERE THAN THE FEW FRENCH who are there TO SELL THEIR products.NK thus would not be THE REASON OF GREAT TURKEY´s dislike and usse it as a PRECONDITION…. any more.That is to say Armenia and Armenians did not quite achieve Artsakh as an Independent Republic and to become onme with Armenian Republic in due course.
We should bear in mind that we have a much more importan issue at stake.That of Recognition of the Genocide perpetrated on us by great Turkey heir of the Ottoman and kemalist Turkey,a regional POWER AT THAT ,at present.But……
Wait and be patient is our virtue.We should wait more until the KURDISH (inevitable) issue ripens up so to say,when we can be in the cue to reclaim our W.Armenian Lands then..
At present on the eve of the 100th Anniversarsy of the martyrdom of our beloved ancestors,we should be content if our Genocide is universally recognized as such and restituion made to us by great Turkey in….you guessed it CASH.Oh yes, they have it.Only today I learnt from this PC that they pay one Billion dolalrs to their co race Tatars in CRIMEA in order that they stay there,after being displaced a few times.last by Stalin then Gorbacjhov brought them back to Crimea. So we should be very flexible and think of having our fledgling RA in PEACE!!!!
WE NEED EVOLUTION THERE NOT REVOLUTION, period.
This post is a good illustration of the fundamental misunderstanding of Armenia’s realities by many Diasporans. Is Andorra surrounded by two genocidal nomadic states? Turks are not interested in free trade. They are interested in finishing the genocide their ancestors started.
I think the revolution he is describing is more of a social change and movement that would be less confrontational and a smooth transition because the more modern “young generation” will eventually inherit the country, slowly but surely. don’t get so riled up people.
Vahagn,
The moment Axerbaijan become democracy, then there will be 4 states out of them 1)Talishestan border with Daghestan of Russia, 2)Avarestan, where they don’t consider themselves part of Turkic tribes 3)Iran’s Azerbaijan where real Azeris live there, who wants to join with their Shiia countermen of North, where famous Persian poet Nezami Ganjavi lived and died as patriotic “Persian poet”….I wonder what will be left over for Democratic Axerbaijni Tatar-turks, who is running them like wild herds by son of a KGB dictator, named Aliyev.
I recently read a headline someplace, which was probably meant for satire which stated: Armenia will not have a revolution because all the ones that would have done revolution have already left the country.
In this article I would caution some posters above not to jump the gun on the author and at least give him a chance to explain what he means further, as it was not entirely clear what kind of revolution he advocates. But I didn’t see this as a ‘doom and gloom’ article on Armenia, but one that calls for perhaps a “revolution” which would result in positive social change: he makes it clear in his article that before purging corruption from government, perhaps the public needs to do it first, citing the taxi driver example. He can correct me if I’m wrong but it seemed to me he is not calling for a violent revolution like some are thinking here, even though he cites other countries. In his opinion the youth are the ones that are capable and the ones that need to implement a change.
I believe that a revolution in the classic sense of the term is the last thing Armenia needs right now, but some things definitely do need to change so that Armenia can become the nation of all Armenians wishing to call it home. We are not there yet but once these glitches are worked out it will be better for everyone.
Democracy, autocracy, oligarchy or whatever system is in place in a country is of no consequence unless the rulers are sincere and care about the people they rule. Unfortunately whatever system is in use will make no difference in Armenia or any of the Middle eastern countries mentioned until we have sincere and incorrupt rulers. This seems to be impossible in this day and age.
Levon,
I disagree overall. I agree in that the human quality of the leaders is important regardless of the system, but in the long term a democratic system, is the least imperfect. It is better overall. You have more of a choice in who the people in the government are. You have more of an influence. Yes, you’re still going to end up with unsavory people in the government, but they can be booted out in the next election. How are leaders chosen in an autocracy, oligarchy system? You’re stuck with the good or the bad. They will overstay their welcome.
A democratic system of government is a far more forward looking, long term system of government. People in the government eventually reflect the society as it changes through elections.
One of the components of democracy as we have come to define it, includes an independent judicial system that is able to go after corruption and other crimes. That’s critical.
Oh and freedom of speech. Look at how the US became a global power, and yet you can criticize and mock the President! Good luck with that in Russia or China.
And Armenia is not Afghanistan (with all due respect to Afghanistan and their troubled and painful history). Armenia should be able to handle and adopt a more Western style democracy and judicial system. Armenians are ready for this.
{“John Evans is right. Armenia has lost and will continue to lose more lives (through exodus) going down the same path than it will in the case of a revolution.”}
(Armenian // March 6, 2014 at 7:29 pm // )
Clearly, Amb Evans did not say that: during the March 2008 bloodshed, 10 Armenians were killed: 8 civilians and 2 police officers.
Per capita, that is equivalent to about 150 people being killed in Yerevan compared to Kiev, where about 100 have been killed to date during Maidan bloodshed.
Amb Evans is clearly cautioning against any violence.
“If there is any prospect of bringing about needed change without street violence and the inevitable attendant losses, it is worth pursuing that course.”
What part of WITHOUT STREET VIOLENCE don’t you understand ?
You trying to contort what Mr. Evans said to fit your Anti-Armenian narrative is quite hilarious: I expected better than that from our cyber-adversaries.
The rest of your limp attempt at dissemination of disinformation about RoA population and leadership is the standard ineffectual nonsense being thrown out by desperate Turks, Turkbaijanis, and their Turkophile agents posing as ‘Armenians’.
Let us hope that no US/NGO ‘color revolution’ with a fascist backbone like in Ukraine (research Right Sector and Svoboda, and their leaders in the new Kiev government running the security agencies) comes to Armenia.
I don’t remember which year but there was definitely an attempt by US backed NGOs in the early 2000’s to pull off a ‘color revolution’ in Armenia which failed.
Here’s the bottom line: Armenia will not survive without Russian military protection. It doesn’t matter whether we like the Russians or not, the Russian military base in Armenia prevents a Turk invasion of Armenia which almost happened in the 1990’s except that Russia told Turkey it would be a war with Russia if it invaded Armenia. The US and EU will NOT stop Turkey from invading Armenia if Russia was not in the way.
The US is using NGOs and agent provocateurs to set the stage for ‘color revolutions’, now very close to Russia. The US is attempting to break up the Russian Federation, that is their agenda. If they succeed at weakening Russia and the Russians pull their military out of Armenia do I have to tell you what will likely happen? Do you think the US will come to Armenia’s defense like they didn’t when Turkey invaded Cyprus? Do you think that the West cares about the suffering of Christians when they provide arms to the jihadis that are raping and killing Christians in Syria?
There will be another attempt on Armenia. I am an Armenian that believes in our people and our homeland and its survival. If Armenians in the West don’t pull their heads out of Western centrism they will be supporting the agenda of the US against Russia which if successful will lead to the destruction of our Armenian homeland.
Also, this is my opinion about Armenia and revolutions and why we must be careful than to throw around phrases like “we need a revolution”.
The Azeris are of the opinion that they lost in the NK war because they had something akin to a revolution with the government overthrow and turmoil at the time while the war was going on. Even though this may not be true, and they would have lost regardless of their government, it is still an ‘explanation’ for them which they can save face with.
Thus they foam at the mouth, (like one suspect poster above repeatedly calling for “democracy” and “revolution”), with the prospects of Armenia having a revolution of its own. This would mean (for them) that they can finally strike at the NKR and renew the war while Armenia is in turmoil, supposedly maximizing their chances of success.
All I’m saying is, Armenians, don’t be irresponsible with the word ‘revolution’. Armenia has a lot of unfinished business which it must resolve before anything else. The “cease fire” means, Armenia and the NKR are technically still at war with Turkey’s attack dog.
Hagop
I am sure most Armenians are aware of Turkic tribes’ enmity toward Armenia and Armenian nation. People like Vahagn Oghloo, who is paid by his masters, in order to act like a professional sh@@ disturber, with an ancient “Armenian god” name, cannot and will not hide their true inner intention, toward Armenians of the world. These poisonous snakes are crawling with their half-empty belly, bite where ever hurts the most, then swallow you, when you are half dead, like during Armenian Genocide times, or, Baku and Kirovabad pogroms, when defenseless and weaponless Armenians were surrounded by Turkified Mongol Turks!
Regarding RVDV’s post: ( RVDV // March 9, 2014 at 2:32 am //)
If you haven’t already, I invite all my compatriots to read the entire exchange between RVDV, Vahagn, and ‘Armenian’ above.
Quite revealing really.
A Turk writes a post that is more pro-Armenian*, by inference, than the two posters writing under Armenian names.
btw: about that magic potion called ‘Democracy’.
We have presented this example numerous times before, but do not mind doing it again, and again, and …(…as long as AW Admin does not mind).
Autocracy vs Democracy.
China vs India.
Two Asian giants.
Roughly same size territory, population.
Unfettered access to World’s oceans.
Both populated by smart, hard working people.
(lots of brilliant engineers and scientists from India and China in California’s Silicone Valley)
China is a one party autocracy.
India is a true democracy.
China GDP: $13.37 Trillion
PPP: $9,800
India GDP: $4.96 Trillion
PPP: $4,000
(2013 figures)
By all metrics of a healthy, vibrant population – such as infant mortality, physician density, life expectancy, food consumption – China leaves India in the dust. It is not even a contest.
Go to CIA Factbook site and compare the two side by side: you will be shocked at the disparity.
There is your miracle of democracy.
———
*’pro-Armenian’ in the sense that it reflects historical accuracy, not the made up bizzaro mumbo-jumbo presented by the other two, comically masquerading as pro-Armenia or pro-Armenian.
As I have noted previously, RVDV does not hide his affection and natural bias for his chosen ethnos (Turk) and for his country of birth (Turkey). But is not blinded by it.
Not to worry about the tatar-turkbeijanis(as Avery dubs them).Armenian amry air force pretty well armed.But Like i suggest.We must copy (IN Armenia) the Swiss.That is each officer or at least a sgt) leaving the service ought to be allowed to take home one good arm.In case a Hitler like Ali(ev) Baba decides to invade NK/RA a fight to death will be happening omn our soil ea of ours putting away tens more of theris…
As to Governance in RA i may differ from Avery quite a bit.because though I have lived more of mhy life in the West(corrupt mostly countries9 I still insist RA needs a Scandinavian type Governance… call it Democratic Socialism et.,
WE do not , should not aim at having skyscrapers in tiny RA.We need to be like the Swedes producing Volvo,Saab type cars jet aircraft(no skyscrapers) but no `poor people eithere.no billionaires hundreds of millions worht mansions but no poor people on the streeets etc.,
In short oiur political parties in Ra and Diaspora should go copy Danish,Swedish, Norway an d Finland mode of Governance and type ..not from totalitareian communisim to Wild free market economy.Like even Russia on of the 125 ex republics did.Who do they wish to surprise or surprise the North Americans???
Keep to the level that if you achieve(above Scandinavian) then you are well off.
Get well armed.I have else wehre on this site suggdested we need to have our young going to RÇa to undergo military cadet training for a month or so.As these ,in most countries where they live do not see that…
Think about these
Also a senate in Yerevan-RA 5 delegates each form our 5 main Continent Diaspora countries in the Ministry of Diaspora and 5 also within national Assembly.
Grant passports to the young overseas for ten yrs after thorough checks and let them be proud they ahve Armenian (dual citizenship alloed countries.
We need to do these and coop with Homeland.if they do not acceeed to above then hell…we are just wasting our time trying to convicne them do this do that.They will go the WRONG WAY AND RA WILL BE EMPTIES PERTTY SOON
“The Azeris are of the opinion that they lost in the NK war because they had something akin to a revolution”
The Azerbaijani popular revolution in 1992 actually nearly whiped Karabakh off the face of the earth. After the fall of Shushi in May of 1992, Elchibey became president in June, after the popular revolution ousted communist president Mutalibov. Days later, Azeris launched a successful offensive, taking nearly half of NKR. However, Elchibey’s administration gradually became corrupt and authoritarian, and the Azeri advance was reversed. Elchibey was later ousted by Aliyev, who was a dictator and not a revolutionary democrat. Had the Azeri revolution established the right kind of democracy (e.g., a U.S. style democracy), nothing would be left of NKR now.
This is yet another example that revolutions do not necessarily lead to a defeat of a country but can actually lead to victories by galvanizing the population. This is exactly what happened in Armenia, where the 1989-1990 revolution ousted the communists and brought a popular authority to power. The NKR victories would be impossible without it. Of course, the Armenians, too, failed to establish a proper democracy, which is why Armenia is in the mess that it is today. If Armenia adopts a U.S. style democracy, nothing will stop Armenia.
This is not to say that revolution is the first option. To the contrary, it is supposed to be a last resort. Still, it is useful to know that revolution does not lead to defeat and can lead to victory. It is also useful to know that unless there is peaceful change by the regime, there will be revolution, as people will not be patient forever. Which means, the pro-democracy forces in Armenia and the Diaspora need to use the threat of revolution as among the pressures to bring about peaceful establishment of democracy in Armenia.
With “dialogue” like this, there is no way anyone can offer anything meaningful. The guy has brought up many good points, yet you still see anything other than what you want to see. There will be no Armenia left because all of its people will be leaving…
“After the fall of Shushi …”
This sentence is very telling about who “Vahagn” really is. Of course, the liberation of Shushi, which is what really happened, would be viewed as a fall by an Azerbaijani.
“gina,”
“Liberation” and “fall” are interchangeable concepts. They are viewed as such by intelligent Armenians. Less intelligent ones may have difficultly seeing it that way. Thus, your “revelation” is quite telling as to what kind of “Armenian” you are.
Senator McCain’s Turkbaijani servant, seems to be rather confident that his/her country of Azerbaijan can squash Armenia like a little bug, given its potential. Well, if that happens to be the case, then what is Azerbaijan waiting for? It has already reached its full potential. By continuing to wait, its potential will decrease, because in about ten to fifteen years when its oil supply becomes drained, Azerbaijan will be nothing more than a used worn out condom.
President Aliyev, has had an enormous amount of time up to now to launch an all-out invasion on Armenia’s little brother, Artsakh, but yet, Azerbaijan’s president continues to chicken out. He just can’t do it! And each time he sends a small group of his soldiers across the border to test the reflexes of the Armenian soldiers, what happens? The heads of the Azeri soldiers immediately get blown off, just like little Turkbaijani bugs.
Senator McCain’s democracy obsessed servant, is also making a vigorous effort to convince all of us that the lack of democracy in Armenia’s 1918-1920 independent republic, was responsible for Russia giving away Armenian territories to Turkey and Azerbaijan. Well, if the 1918-1920 independent Armenian republic had been filled with democracy from top to bottom, how exactly would that have prevented the remaining part of Armenia from being conquered, as well as its entire remaining population wiped out, by the much more powerful Turkish nation? That’s the reason why Eastern Armenia was forced to join the former Soviet Union. The Russians were certainly insincere, and cheated Armenia in a horrible manner by stripping big chunks of its territories, and giving it away to the Turks and Azeris. However, it could have been a lot worse. Just imagine if Armenia had chosen not to join the former Soviet Union, and instead had chosen to remain independent and pursue the empty dream of democracy? If that had taken place, there would be no Armenia today, and the Armenian people and their culture would be history. Joining the former Soviet Union, back in 1920, is the reason why the Armenian people were not completely destroyed. And, it is also the reason why the Armenian people happen to have a homeland today.
Exactly which Azerbaijani revolution in 1992, actually nearly wiped Karabakh off the face of the earth? As usual, this particular Turkbaijani poster is desperate to feed us horribly false information about everything and everyone. Although the Azeris did launch a successful offensive in June of 1992 (the only successful breakthrough by the Azeri military in the entire Karabagh War), which enabled them to capture forty percent of the Nagorno-Karabagh Republic, the Armenian forces still managed to take back all that territory, beginning in the autumn of that same year. After that, from 1993 until the end of the war (May,1994), the Azeri military was totally unable to repel the Armenian forces who kept winning battle after battle. And, let’s also not forget that the Azeris in that particular war, happened to have a huge advantage over the Armenians in military weapons. Anyway, by the end of the war (May, 1994), the Armenians had successfully liberated their land of Artsakh, and had also managed to capture a big chunk of additional territory from Azerbaijan. However, a big mistake was made by the Armenians, when they agreed to a cease-fire after the Azeri military was already crushed and could no longer fight anymore. If the Armenians had rejected the cease-fire request by the Azeris in May of 1994, they easily would have arrived at the center of Baku within a period of two months. Just imagine that! The whole entire dog pound of Azerbaijan would’ve ended up being dissected, and as a result, the whole entire Azerbaijani population would be in the Caspian Sea right now, swimming around with those pretty little fish.
This particular Turkbaijani poster, is so full of desperation that he/she gives the absurd excuse that a democratic Azerbaijan would’ve wiped out Artsakh in the 1991-1994 war. And, exactly how would democracy have supplied magic powers to Azerbaijan in defeating the Artsakh Armenians? Again, this is another typical absurd excuse given by a typical Turkbaijani sore loser.
Revolutions are long term investments. It gets worse before it gets better. But it is only when people are willing to die that things change in any major (revolutionary) way.
As for Armenia, simply put, Armenia is not currently in a position to make that investment. We’re not stable enough, we’re not philosophically developed enough in the ideas of democracy, we’re not economically developed enough to have a proper middle class to get the job done right.
So what are we left with? We are left with an opportunity to develop our country as much as possible (with small socio-economic battles won) for the next half century. By then, there will be a more significant middle class that can develop and execute such movements.
Gina and others who begin to suspect more and more that Vahagn is an Azeri amongst us here.I really wish that he lerns something from our discussions and debates.Becaiuse if he does not and keeps banging his ,that of like mentioned by you ¨after fall of Shoushi¨…it goes to show that is the way some or more than some of them are taught to think so.We must get used to that.Hoping they will also get to kmow that Armenians are there to STAY.I have recently suggested a sort of TRUCE,OR compromise.That of declaring Nk as a Principality and a Free Trade Zone.It is rather strange that not even one person has commented omn that.after all I gavbe as example that Principality of Andorra WAS ALSO a bone of contention, at an equally long period of time…centuries…but then they agreed to come to that solution.My take om this issue is that it is not only(am sure all know that too) but do not wish to admit.That great Turkey is the main reason of FRENAR.means braking sort of the OSCE MInsk Group efforts or even meeting s of the FM of rA and Azerbeijan.Inclduing the pres. of both RA and Azerbeijan. Always in their so called offer of conditioning the opening of the borders to that of Armenian occupied six districts be released and troops brought in…
Has anyone seriously thought why is this of Turkey´s concern or worry.After all there is more Armenian land rterritory between them and Nk and/or Artsakh..
I believe they are worried that so to speak Armenians may ¨get too big for their boots¨ and wish to advance or speak openly about liberating Kars-Ardahan, Surmalu Ani erzeroum and furtheer away VAN where Aghtamara is being dangled to us and especially also to Europeans etc., that we are opening upt.Same as they wish to imply the issue of the border openming.
Firstly no any country would have open borders with neighbour if they did not diplomatic reps. reciprocally(take Pakistan and India).Furthermore, they thus wish to imply that ALL ARMENIANS DESIRE IS TO HAVE OPEN BORDERS WITH great Turkey so as BIZness will be conducted between the two. No mention of the M A I N I S S U E .Thjat of Genmocide Acknowledgement and restitutions,compensations.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I AM OF THE VIEW THAT WE SHOULD-LIKE RA HAS DONE SO FAR, NOT CLAIM OR BRING INTO DISCUSSION LAND I S S U E .
What we can do and it has precedent and that an enormously HUGE ONE THAT NO ONE CAN DENY IS THE JEWS VS Germany.They got Blood money from Democratic Germany heir to Nazi Germany.
Thence is we somehow come to above like compromise with Azerbeijan on a ltd basis like Andorra´s…then Turkey will not have T H A T PRETEXT, to evade from some understanding.They have all to gain if the accept that their Ancestors DID COMMIT Genocide and that that riches confiscated helped them get where they are….
Otherwise the present status quo will continue …
In this respect my view is to ahve the Diaspora(s) a lot more organized and brought closer to Homeland,the Republic of Armenia.