ETCHMIADZIN, Armenia (A.W.)—On Sept. 4, Etchmiadzin announced that it will not take part in the Divine Liturgy scheduled to take place on Sept. 19 at Akhtamar because Turkish authorities have declined to place a cross on top of the Holy Cross Church.
On Aug. 30, the Armenian Weekly reported that the Catholicosate of Cilicia had released a statement informing the public that it would not send representatives to attend church services at the Holy Cross Armenian Church in Turkey.
Thus, both Armenian Catholicosates have now made public statements declining to take part in the Divine Liturgy. Political leaders of Armenia’s ruling party and in the opposition have also spoken against the Turkish government’s initiative.
Earlier in August, Armenian President Serge Sarkisian’s Republican Party spoke out against Armenian participation in the Mass. The party’s spokesman, Eduard Sharmazanov, denounced the Turkish government’s decision to reopen it for a one-day religious ceremony on Sept. 19 as a publicity stunt and “provocation” aimed at misleading the international community. “Once again, instead of taking a serious step, the Turks are staging an imitation show,” Sharmazanov told RFE/RL’s Armenian service. “I don’t think you can achieve tolerance and solidarity of civilizations in that way.”
In turn, Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) political affairs director Giro Manoyan had urged Armenians to boycott the Mass. “I think it would be wrong to go there on a day set by Turkey and especially in these conditions of blockade… I don’t want to blame believers willing to go there but they must know that they somewhat contribute to the Turkish provocation,” said Manoyan.
Below is the full text of the Etchmiadzin statement.
“The Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin learned with regret and disappointment that the placing of the cross on top of the dome of the Church of the Holy Cross at Akhtamar is being postponed by the Turkish authorities without cause. The Mother See had been assured that the consecrated cross would be permanently placed on the dome of the church one week prior to the celebration of Divine Liturgy in the Church of the Holy Cross, scheduled for Sun., Sept. 19.
“Taking into account the breach of the assurances provided regarding the placement of the cross, the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin—which was prepared to satisfy the request of the Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople to send two representatives to participate in the Divine Liturgy—is suspending the participation of her representatives in the celebration of the Liturgy at the Church of the Holy Cross at Akhtamar on Sept. 19.”
Its about time. (Verchabes)
Ov Hye joghovoort!
Ko myag pergootyene ko havakagan ooje mech eh.
Buykar minchev verch.
Etchmiadzin has made the proper decision. No cross, no church, no badarak. Will the Patriarchate of Istanbul be compelled to send clergy?
Finely Edjmiazin got the right decesion!!!
Baykar minchev Haghtanag
GETZTZE HO HI TAN
HYE AZKIN BAHABAN
WOW…Leadership is taking a stand……….FINALLY….
Hope this is one of many strong decisions our leadership will take upon themselves going forward..
I agree with Bojayian.. no Cross, no church, no clergy, no sermon, …..
tsavali, shat tsavali e’ armenats razmakan anhzoruthyun@ vor karoghanan sa aporeni, zanazan anhadgeli tohmere’ lqvatz genetic kharnundi miasnakanuthyun@ vor nerkayanum e’ ashkhari vorpes TURK,
brni oozhov vtaren irents armenants yerkren, aylev@s k’bave irents zzveli nerkayuthyn@ mer hogherun vra, 1000 tarva kamavor the’ voch hurenkaluthyun@ motetsatz e ir avartin,
hamakhmbveq hayots vordiner, sa haghtanak apahovelu amenakarevor him@n e’
this is what means “coming of age”
Those of us who advocated support for the September 19 service did so with the premise that the church was to have the cross permanently returned. I fully agree…no cross, no service and there should be no participation. I am very happy to see the church hierarchy unified. Now the boycott has public substance. Let the Turks explain this insult. Anyone know if the Patriachate has changed its position or will they attend?
A BIT ENCOURAGING THAT SPIRITUAL HIERARCHIES AS WELL AS RA GOVERNMENT ARE ACTING LIKE THEY DO.GIVE AND TAKE DIPLOMACY NO CROS NO GO.BUT….
LET US BE REALISTIC.IF PATRIARCHATE IF ISTANBULLA SEND CLERGY TO CELEBFRATE MASS AND BABIK MAMIKS GO THEN,ACT LIKE THEY DO …THAT IS IF THERE-AMONGST THME SOME FROM RA AND OVERSEAS,THESE LATTER WHILE THERE,SHOULD RESORT TO SOFT DIPLOMACY-PLEAE PASS ON THESE TO THOSE WHO.”IN LIGHT OF MASS BEING CELEBRATED PROMPTED OR PUSHED BY TURKISH AUTHORITIES AND BOLSAHYUES THERE TO PRAY…THOSE WHO ARE AS SAID FROM OUTSIDE TURKEY SHOULD PRAY IN THE OPEN AIR…THIS WILL SHOW TO FOREIGNERS ARMENIANS DO NOT BEND TO TURKISH WHIMS,WHILE ALSO SHOWING TO THOSE “LBIRSH” CORRESPONDENCE,IN EXTENSION TO WORLD T.V. AND MEDIA THAT WE WENT …BECAUSE IT IR AN AARMENIAN CHURCH ON ARMENIAN SOIL BUT REFUSED TO ACT AS THEY-TURKS-WANT US TO.THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THOSE WHO AARE THERE WILL ACT ON OUR BEHALF….THE MAJORITY.ALL ELSE IS QUITRE EASY FROM ARMCHAIRS IN DIASPORA TO DICTATE OR SUGGEST “DO THIS DO THAT” WE MUST REACT TO THEM “tHEIR” WAY
Dear Gaytzag Palandjian,
Please refrain from using all-caps. It is tiring for the eye and is considered “shouting.”
Admin
Oh, so, if there was to be a cross put on the church, it would have been alright for Etchmiadzin to go?
You know what? It’s all spin. First, by the Turks, who sucked in naive Armenians, and then Etchmiadzin, which is also playing games.
It all reminds me of when Aliyev makes some bold statement about retaking Artsakh. It’s bread and circus for the masses.
Exactly Dave. Etchmiadzin’s decision not to attend this show is correct but that decision is based on faulty premises (the – but there’s no cross “reasoning”).
The most compelling argument against taking part in this devious Turkish propaganda ploy is not based on whether or not a cross will be placed on our sacred Church. The most compelling and I would purport the most convincing argument against attending this show is the fact that Armenian property (our Church and our asset) will not be returned to Armenians as their own religious monument that attests to their roots to the land but rather it will be showcased to the world on Turkeys terms as a “museum” in order to permeate the highly cynical and misconstrued notion of supposed Turkish “tolerance” via its minority groups. Its a sham. That said I’m glad Cilicia and now finally Etchmiadzin showed the necessary backbone required.
The premise used to make Etchmiadzin’s final decision (the one made public that is) however is unnecessarily reckless.
Cilicia’s logic:
If you don’t return the Church to Armenians on our terms and allow us to freely conduct mass when and how we see fit then we are not participating.
Etchmiadzin’s logic:
If there’s no cross on our Armenian Church then we are not participating.
Firstly my apologies to Adminsistration,for writing in large caps.I shall adhere to your requirements.And thank you for posting my post with many typographical errors.I wrote very fast. Now as to arguments exposed above.
Indeed what Antillias or Etchmiadzin relay,latter belatedly is in place. Certainly a correct response. However, though primarily this is an ecclesiastical issue,nonetheless,the other side ,our centuries old adversary-make a note of this-does not contest the issue through ,what should be their such entity,i.e., their religious Hierarchy representatives.
It would behoove that latter responded to our such. Professor Saftrastian from Yerevan on E1 channel just opined-as I have been doing for a few times that,and I quote”if Ataturk image or turkish Flag is again draped on facade or inside church, should not go. Without mentioning my “suggestion” that “those who will attend should not enter it”,just stay in open air around it and pray there. As to cross,another spokesman from RA explained that local authorities had explained that it is a very heavy Cross and cannot easily be installed atop Dome,to which this lady replied that “they have more than a thousand helicopters that could easily pick it up and place it there” .
As someone above pointed out it is diplomatic give and take.More than anything it is that indeed. Again to stress the point-by me- whether to go or boycot it-easier said than done. My guess is that many will participate,mainly from Bolis and Turkey,quite possibly our Babiks mamiks from Diasporan countries as well.They yearn to see ,not onlyu the sourp Khatch-.Holy Cross church and pray there ,but to be on ancestors land.
Thence ,if our politico or politicized public wish to “somehow” boycot it,may I “suggest” best venue would be to do as above presented. Do not forget we are dealing as yet with a stoutly chauvinistic not to say Fascist state. Hrant Dink,(may he rest in peace)I would believe would have adopted the soft boycotting,rather than just advocate a total one which anyhow will not be implemented,as pointed out. We gain,albeit not so much as desired,but at least presence of Armenians at a church 10 century old on Armenian soil.
May the deniers of the Armenian Genocide all go to Jahenem and quickly.
Dave and Dikranagertzi… I don’t think any of us really know the thinking of the Sees or any other institutions behind their public statements. I am sure there is plenty of political positioning and reactive thinking; however I stand by my original view on the mass. Celebrating a badarak is very different from visiting or even praying.
I’m not sure what’s behind Etchmiadzin’s latest position, but in my view, they did the right thing. It is inappropriate to hold a badarak in a building that is not properly consecrated according to the traditions of the Armenian Church. The cross was to be consecrated and placed in its rightful position. We look at this incident as a political event, but there is a spiritual perspective that should be respected. Let’s also remember that the Cilician See has more freedom to articulate its view. It is not the Mother See and does not reside in Armenia. In a sense it tends to reflect the view of many in the diaspora. We are the “great disenfranchised” Armenians and as a result can be more direct in our comments. We are free to say what we want and to what degree. Can we say the same of our breathren in Turkey?
Currently, our Soorp Khatch is not a functioning church. The Turks prehaps predictably broke their commitment. As such, no badarak should tak place. We should however pray there and whereever we reside for the day that this church is once again in our hands and free for worship. Have faith, this is just another chapter.
ketses souze…may the real deniers (not necessarily just kemalist turks, remember the most lethal part of the snake is its head, and the head is not in turkey, those of us who read between the lines know who the head is, and where it resided…definately not in turkey) go to jehenem…
he who plots the demise of another really is plotting the end of himself…in time justice will be served to all who deserve it…woe to those who are on the top now oppressing…the wheel is turning, it’s been turning since the beginning of time, and if anyone in power had an ounce of properly functioning brain, he/she would realize that, just like their predecessors, they will reap what they sow, no one has been able to cheat death yet and no one can escape payback…it’s the supreme law of the universe.
hay@ togh sire’ hayun u havata the’ orn e galis oo shutov, veradarnalu mer yerkir@, mer miyak apahov vayr@
To Those who recommend boycotting: What alternatives do you propose? Do you have other options? All those living in distant kilometers from this sacred church Aghtamar, is easy to say whatever the human mind thinks; what tangible issues do you propose to citizens who feel they are still Armenians worldwide?
This is not a football game in Yerevan or Ankara or an election campaign to lead the sheep.
It’s their call. If they insist on acting like spoiled children, then so be it. No skin off our noses! How many choices do Turks have in Armenia?
Etchmiadzin shouldn’t ignore the main issue here. The people who endorsed the defeatist protocols tried this same tactic. Sidestep important issues and manufacture a deceiving veil of “rapprochement” and “progress” between elite figureheads from both sides to cloak the ugly truth of injustice, scandal and lies.
A sensible reason why no Armenian should be caught anywhere near Aghtamar has little to do with whether a cross will be placed on our Church than with why that cross was removed in the first place and why its parishioners perished.
An unrepentant perpetrator of genocide unable to tolerate the rights of OUR people to this day (Dink, Nisanyan etc.) and a government still unwilling to respect the rights of Armenians to our illegally confiscated properties, including the lands of Western Armenia, upon which thousands of Churches like Aghtamar lay waiting is a more sensible reason to boycott.
Beautifully said hayrenaser jan.. bravo…
All i know is that finally our leadership is working together.. when in the past, the separation and disunity is what has been killing everything… working together and being united is the only way… lets just hope this type of leadership will continue in years to come…
Many suggested to hold events and gatherings the same day to pray for those who perished and to remember our churches and monuments that were destroyed by Turks.. and i agree with this.. on top of that, we should invite everyone to attend these masses…and have a media coverage… to show them bastards Turks that they can throw a lightening rod between Armenians but you can never bring down the house… no matter how conyving and manipulative games they play..
God Bless Armenians…
Gayane
Robert, are you trying to be ridiculous? You call Armenians ‘spoiled children’ because they don’t want to play the game with Turkey where the dice are loaded, the cards are marked and stacked in favor of Turkey? You whine that Turks have limited choices in Armenia? Really? Turkey killed our ancestors and stole 80% of our ancestral homeland, denies it to this day, and you want “choices” in Armenia? Spoiled is what Turks are when they behave as people who can take a huge slice of something that is not theirs, smash it to bits and never say sorry to those they took from. You are truly ignorant of reality. How is it that you can come to his site and not learn anything new? Are you so brainwashed that you are unable to recognize truth when you see it? Do you not read any history outside of Turkish propaganda? Please do some real research. You embarrass yourself with your lack of knowledge.
Dear Mgdrij Bouldoukian,
I see you are the exception who ,like self understand that whether we like it or not many Armenians-who yearn to be there,not just to pray,also be on Ancestors´soil-will go…
boycot or no boycot.Also like I mentioned we ought to begin to cope like Hrant Dink did.
To hope that R.of Turkey will overnight comply with our wishes-not to say demands-is tantamount to challenging their just begun signs-albeit very very small- of “change” of attitude towars their old time “raya”s.Some do not realize that R.of Turkey has defied its most important supporter-ally by refusing to act as latter suggests or asks for.Namely the United States. Therefore to surmise again,we should make the most of it preparing those who go to “softly” boycot it. I´m nlot to repeat as to staying out in open air etc.,
One more thing, no one so far has mentioned what I did as to this is is by far and large an ecclesiastical/Spiritual issue and if our Spiritual such are intervenming,it clearly behooves to the counterpart,i.e., Turkish Spiritual “Imams” to correspond with ours.
One would hope that our two important Sees,would consider contacting their Imams in this respect and explain to them that it is high time they also got involved in such issues.Or at the very least,ask the highest ranking Imam in R.of Turley consider it.
“It’s their call. If they insist on acting like spoiled children, then so be it. No skin off our noses! How many choices do Turks have in Armenia?”
LOL
1. Turks are Muslims, not Christians. Why would a Turk have a church.
2. There is a Persian mosque in Yerevan which has not been expropriated into a state museum. There are plenty of functioning Armenian churches in Iran. That’s right–theocratic Iran treats its Armenian minority and churches better than “secularizing” and “liberal” Turkey.
3. It seems to me that the party who behaves like “spoiled children” is the one which says “no we didn’t do it, and we don’t talk about it” for 95 years. Wouldn’t you agree, Robert?
My apologies. I thought Robert asked how many “churches” do Turks have in Armenia. So ignore point #1, but #2 and #3 still apply.
Boyajian jan.. let me add to your comment..
Robert is not trying to be ridiculeous.. He IS ridiculeous… we ought to know by now and i have said this many many times.. so called Robert the Turk is definintely the embodiment of what brainwashed, genocidal, anti-Armenian TUrk is and i feel sorry for him and his kind.. like Murat and few others that continueously try to make stupid remarks but always get shut down…guess they never learn..
Robert is ABSOLUTELY ridiculeous my dear Boyajian jan …to say that ARmenians are spoiled is out of his empty imagination and/or reality.. whichever he lives in at the moment…… he forgets that TUrks like him and his bastard Republic of Turkey are the spoiled ones .. and it is because they have gone without great deal of punishment for great deal of crime against humanity for so long.. they are absolutely spoiled because they get away with alot of things and no one slaps them on their face and choke them at the root… they know that they do the same thing over and over again, nothing or no one will punish them…. talk about spoiled.. i hope that one day they will get the taste of their own medicine…
Such ignorance…and stupidity on Robert’s part…get a life..
Gayane
dearest gaytzag,
the turkish imams are on the payroll of the state and therefore are not in a position to confront those who pay their salaries specially on behalf of the enemy of the republic of turkey,
my fellow hayrenakitsner,
please arm yourselves with a full arsenal of collective information before you express your opinions publicly, specially when it concerns your arch enemy
To dear Hayrenaser:-
It is commonly known that when ,say the Russian and Greek Orthodox churches or for that matter the Anglican church´s Archbishop of Canterbury has an issue that is purely Spiritual,they address each other directly-not through their governments.
Your “full arsenal of collective information” I would think also includes this information. Moreover, our Sees at St. Etchmiadzin and Antillias have always done so with their counterparts in Islamic countries,amongst other, above mentioned.So why not practice same with the R.of Turkey´s highest ranking Imam?
It is one thing to fathom-like you do- that this cannot be done-another to give it a try.
How can you be so certain that it will not work. After all, you cannot put yourself in “their” position and “opine” or suggest what they can ,what they cannot do.Question here, is to be expectant,you, all of us or even our Spiritual Hierarchy. There is no harm in trying.
Should we not begin to be a bit more diplomatic, like the Vatican also reacts to such issues directly rather than through government.
Let us hope that our Spiritual leadership will at least consider acting likewise. As the date draws close-Sept.19,2010-it is not yet too late to act. Especially so ,as our Armenian Apostolic church-we claim- is an Azgayin(national) church.Do you follow what is hidden in my last sentence,or shall I revert to it in another fashion.
best rgds
I cannot believe it! Here is a young lady who mustered up the courage to come out and publicly declare her desire to renew her life and become a Christian. And now, it doesn’t count because there wasn’t a cross on the church? What is more important, to renew one’s life through Christ or, have a man made cross on top of a building. Does that make everyone entering the church Christian? The cross should first be in our hearts – which can happen anywhere, anytime.