To minimize the damage caused by his threats to deport Armenians working illegally in Turkey, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan met with what his office called “the leader of the Armenian community in Turkey” on Fri., March 26.
Except, that person does not represent the Armenian community nor its institutions.
Berdos Sirinoglu, the president of the Board of Trustees of the Armenian Holy Savior Hospital, told reporters following talks with Erdogan that no good could come out of bringing up what happened a century ago, and that what happened between Turks and Armenians was a fight “among friends.”
“This was 100 years ago. There is no point in digging further into the past. I cannot understand why some people try to keep it open,” added Sirinoglu, who said his own grandfather died in the 1915 events. “There is no need to call the events genocide either.”
Angered by these statements and the apparent effort to unilaterally represent and speak for the Armenian community of Turkey, the relatives of slain journalist Hrant Dink kicked off a petition Tuesday distancing themselves from Sirinoglu and his comments.
The petition, entitled “We live in a different Turkey,” has received wide support and prompted a wave of protests by Armenians in Turkey, who say that Sirinoglu and his vice-chairman Herman Baloyan, who also attended the meeting, do not represent or speak for the community.
“Sirinoglu is not the leader of Turkey’s Armenian community,” read the petition announcement, as reported by the Istanbul-based Agos newspaper. Dink was the editor of Agos before his murder in January 2007.
Sirinoglu “is the president of the Holy Savior Hospital and that position does not give him the right to make announcements on behalf of the Armenian community. Thus, Sirinoglu’s announcements only reflect his personal opinions. We expect those who are creating confusion in the community to immediately correct their mistakes,” added the announcement.
Sirinoglu also said that Armenians felt safe in Turkey and had no complaints to that effect. “Those people who have been away from their country for a long time should come and see Armenian property and schools, they should see how Armenians live in Turkey, and then they should decide,” he said.
“Hearing Sirinoglu’s announcement that ‘Armenians feel safe in Turkey—Have you ever heard any complaints from them?’ prompts us to think that perhaps we live in a different Turkey,” the petition continued.
“Sirinoglu may feel safe in this country. But, that’s a lie,” added the petition, which went on to stress that Armenians are subjected to racial and ethnic discrimination and are being used for political goals.
“We expected Sirinoglu to remind the prime minister of the murder of Hrant Dink three years ago and demand that those responsible are brought to justice,” emphasized the announcement.
Sirinoglu said most of the 1.5 million Armenians who were living in Anatolia when the massacres began migrated to other countries—Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, the United States, France, etc. “I am not saying nothing happened, but there is no benefit in digging deeper into the past. If we do this, our future will remain in the dark,” he said.
Sirinoglu went as far as taking the blame for the inflated figure of 100,000 illegal Armenians announced by Erdogan in his deportation threat earlier this month. “We gave the figures to the prime minister. Since he trusted us deeply, he did not check it with other sources. We apologize for this,” said Sirinoglu, adding that the correct figure was about 20,000.
“Sirinoglu’s apology for the inflated figures raises suspicion,” the petition read. “We believe that all of this was staged and was a coordinated effort to portray the Turkish government as a benevolent entity.”
“We condemn the prime minister’s announcement and express that we do not share Bedros Sirinoglu’s views,” read the petition, which also called on Erdogan to issue an apology.
Ara Khachatourian
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Turkey’s victory over the Armenians within Turkey is obvious due to the miobic politics of Mr. Sarksyan, the illegal President of Armenia. Moreover, the Republic of Turkey has also gotten a moral, economic, and political advantage over the Armenians within Armenia, also thanks to the anti-Armenian politics of Sarksyan-Nalbandyan tandem.
With apology to our readers only I have one word to that Vasak Berdos. who claims to be the leader of Armenian community Sir you are an … shut up or go to hell you are not representative of any single Armenian in the world
I was shocked to my ear..
Someone who is Armenian with Armenian blood running through his veins to stand up and only only defend that Erdogan but to say that Genocide is no matter to discuss now that 100 years has passed is a low life, spineless, brainwashed Turk… I don’t distinguish him after his comments from any Turk who speaks arrogance, ignorance and denial.. He is one them.. even his last name is Turkish..I am ashamed of him.. I am embarassed to call him Armenian..
SHAME ON YUO BEDROS..SHAME SHAME SHAME…
Gayane
Thank you all above for your great comments. Bedros, listen Armenians Genocide happened and stop being a Devil! Don’t worry you’ll day will come too and kill you for being an Armenian. I think his not Armenian and if he is then his scared to be shot like Hrant Dink. He can’t go against 75 million Turks and fight for what’s left. Secondly, Turkey is Armenia and they have all the right to live there. This is visible life but we all should be scared form invisible, stay in faith my fellow Armenians and don’t lose hope.
I would, very much like to accept the invitation of Mr Bedros Sirinian (if he’s truly an Armenian), to visit the homes of my grandparents in Ourfa, Adana, Svaz…where their families were slaughtered and their properties confiscated by the turks, when he’s able to evacuate those properties and return them to their rightful owners, and compensate for the lives lost and the ruthless terror poured upon the innocent victims. The Armenians in Turkey today are only a shadow of their original representation. I would very much like to hear his explanation of why 1 to 2 million Armenians should suddenly decide to march to unknown countries through a grueling desert. The turkish propaganda machine is now being maintained by some Armenians….Pathetic.
How much money was Mr. X-oglu paid to do this? Sad, pathetic people in a sad pathetic country that is in so much denial! How threatened are they by the truth?
Tyranny Lasts!
Never
Every Man is born
To do good things in life
We’re born to serve humanity
Not nationality
Not race
Nor Religion
We are humans from many genes
We are never pure
How much we roarfully pray
After all the earth is flat
At end we’ll end flat,
For others,
Step on us.
This is a reality.
Tyranny
Never lasts
Sylva-MD-Poetry
“My Stanzas Didn’t Arise From Empty Veins!”
All Turks should analyze their DNAs
To know their origin
And stop fighting against known genocide.
Der Zor Bedouins can teach them better…
As they sow with their eyes.
What Turks did for pregnant woman
How they slashed their wombs with their scimitars
To know the unsown sex
How they raped and killed beautiful Armenian girls.
The stories are endless
No human can wipe it out.
“My Stanzas Didn’t Arise From An Empty Veins!”
Apres Sylva jan.. your poems are very beautiful and touching.. it portrays the pain and anger and sadness what our people went through..
You are a great writer…
Gayane
It seems you censured my comment. Well !
Do you think that our ancestors haven’t enough been quaking in front of all these bloody turkish invaders? A thousand years later, look where we are, just look and mesure !
Sometimes be inspired by those who are settling territories in violation of so many Resolutions of the U.N. : be virile!
Turkey’s Armenians? I think the proper heading should have been Turkish Armenians. Maybe even Armenian Turks as “Turk” today simply implies a citizen of Turkey, similar to “American”. Israeli Arabs, Italian Americans, French Canadian, etc.. get it?
I agree with them though. Erdogan owes a big apology.
Yes, Murat, Turkey’s remaining Armenians, the number of whom is estimated at 60,000. Turkey’s remaining Armenians who, based on the Ottoman census of early 1900s, comprised 3 mln and who inhabited historical Western Armenian provinces of Van, Kars, Sivas, Bitlis, Kharpert, Diyarbekir (Tigranakert), and Erzerum for almost 3000 years, lo-o-o-ng before the invasion of your predecessors Seljuk-Mongol nomads from Central Asia in the 11th century AD. A distinct Indo-European nation. A distinct Christian nation. A distinct civilization that existed on the ancient maps by Ptolemy, in the historical records of Xenophonte, in the records of ancient Sumerians, Greeks, Hittites, Assyrians. A distinct nation through which expeditions of Alexander the Great passed, in which legions of Roman Empire fought, through which routes of the ancient Silk Road connected the East and the West. A distinct civilization of people 3 mln of whom have been wiped out from the face of the earth by the Turkish CUP regime in 1915-1921. Out of 3 mln just 60,000 Armenians currently live in Turkey.
Might you know what could have happened with the remaining 2 mln 940 thousands, Murat?
Wait… I need clarfication from Murat…
I may misunderstood your comment; however by you stating
“I agree with them though.. Erdogan owes a big apology”.. .Do you mean he owes a big apology to the Armenians because they are Armenians and belong to the ARmenian nation who happen to live on their own ancestral lands??… or do you mean he owes a big apology to the Turks (because you don’t see these Armenians as Armenians but you see them as Turkish citizens)….
Humor me.. i think i know what you meant but I need to confirm.
Thank you
Gayane
How About British who have Christain Monarchy,
Written to British Poets, Not their MPs
Armenians suffered more than Christ did.
We don’t celebrate Eastors
We pray for smashed innocent skulls
Dried in Der Zor desertes.
God forgot us.
Please British Poets,
Feel with Armenian Genocide.
May be you don’t pray
Put you have (yours) Poetian Gods.
May be those can hear Us!
Remember
Armenian Genocide remembrance date April 24, 1915-1923.
British ignoring our genocide,
They think about their profits and not human rights.
Ancient,
There never were 3M Armenians in the whole of the Ottoman Empire. Not even 1.5M based on official Ottoman census and Church records. Then again, I know your kind is allergic to facts and figures.
Now that you brought up Xenophone, let me tell you what he observed while his army was marching through Eastern Anatolia. I do not recall if he actually uses the term “Armenian”, but he describes exteremely barbaric and wild people in the area who were very warlike and any attampt to communicate with them failed. There were other uncomplimentary details. Yes, a very distinct culture indeed.
Gayene,
You know darn well what Erdogan should be man enough to apologize for. Turkish Armenians are not his hostages.
Sylva…. get help!
Newcomer Murat,
The population size of the Armenians within the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1915 is a controversial topic. Most estimates by Western scholars agree on the number of Armenians comprising up to 2.5 million. It is the fact that the Ottoman census statistics have maintained constant increase for the Armenian population from the period where between 1894 and 1897 an estimated 300,000 Armenians lost their lives during the Bloody Sultan Hamid massacres. But the census of 1905 hasn’t shown any anomaly of Armenian increases, which suggests that there might have been a fixed quota of Armenian population, and that regardless of the census, there were much more Armenians within the Empire. According to the Turkish author Kâzım Kadri, “During the reign of Abdul Hamid we lowered the population figures of the Armenians… By the order of Abdul Hamid the number of the Armenians deliberately had been put in low figures.” (see: Hüseyin Kâzım Kadri, Balkanlardan Hicaza: Imparatorlugun Tasfiyesi. 10 Temmuz Inkilâbı ve Netayici, Istanbul: Pınar, 1992. Originally published in Ottoman Turkish in 1920 in Istanbul by Islam and Askeri Publishers. p. 126, 133; in the original Ottoman version, p. 116, 123.) Another set of Armenian Patriarchate figures were published in 1913. Their author, Krikor Zohrab, offered an estimate of 2,560,000+ Armenians living in Turkey at the time (see: Marcel Léart (Krikor Zohrab), La Question Arménienne à la lumière des documents, Paris : A. Challamel, 1913) But I presume your type may be obsessively sensitive to facts, figures, and documentary evidence…
As for philosopher Xenophon, (‘Xenophonte’ in old Greek), allow me refresh your historical knowledge of an era when he lived and wrote about Armenians, along with other nations he encountered during their raids into the area (ca.400 BC). Xenophon informs us about Armenia in book four of his Anabasis. He describes at great length how an army of Greek mercenaries had to fight its way back from Babylonia to the Black Sea through Armenia. But I presume your type may be obsessively sensitive to documentary evidence of ancient historians and philosophers… Further, Xenophon gives fine description of village live of the Armenians, mentioning that they were rich in cattle. Their houses were underground structures with an aperture like the mouth of a well by which to enter, but they were broad and spacious below. What has become known to Xenophon and is registered in the world historical records (that Armenians take particular pride of as a being of distinct culture) is that ancient Armenians, having already developed rich and loosely organized village live, already knew how to brew bear. Here’s how Xenophon describes a beverage that he’d never tasted anywhere else:
“There were stores within of wheat and barley and vegetables, and wine made from barley [i.e., beer] in great big bowls; the grains of barley malt lay floating in the beverage up to the lip of the vessel, and reeds lay in them, some longer, some shorter, without joints; when you were thirsty you must take one of these into your mouth, and suck. The beverage without admixture of water was very strong, and of a delicious flavor to certain palates, but the taste must be acquired.” [Source: Anabasis 4.24-26 by Xenophon]
According to Herodotus (Histories, 5.49) and Xenophon, most Armenians at that time were cattle-breeders who roamed with their herds -sheep, cows, horses- between the summer’s and winter’s pasture. Xenophon’s Armenians were a peaceful nation, and it comes as no surprise that Xenophon specifically mentions that their warriors fought with simple weapons, such as slings and arrows [Anabasis by Xenophon).
I’d be interested to know in which passage you got Xenophon’s description of Armenians being ‘extremely barbaric and wild people who were very warlike’ and that ‘any attempt to communicate with them failed.’ You must have mixed up Armenians living in the 1st millennium BC with the newcomer Seljuk-Mongol conquerors in the 11th century AD who, indeed, are known to the whole Eurasia as being extremely barbaric and wild.
To a person by the name Murat:
Even IF all respectable sources (Western, Armenian, etc.) pretend for a split second that there were 1.5 or less Armenian citizens in the Ottoman Turkey, as you personally think, based on your sophisticated knowledge, what could have happened to almost all of them leaving just 60,000-70,000 in modern-day Turkey?
Curiously,
T
Murat, the sick man of Europe, you always have all the anawers! If Armenians are “allergic to facts and figures” why does your amnesia induced society need laws from anyone speaking the truth of the Armenian Genocide? What low self-esteem you must all have so much so taht the truth scares your people. “Savage and barberic” usually describes you Mongols. Ask any race that has been under Turkish miss-rule and they would all acknowledge rape, brutallity and muder as a fact of the Turkish make-up. Also, Sylva’s poetry is beautiful and accurate. Maybe someone needs to explain it to you or maybe you are just too stupid to understand it. Which is it?
Brutality, cruelty, blood-shed, massacre, murder etc., none of these is under monopoly of any ethnic group, or nation, they all come from the sick nature of human being. These are the things that the stronger does to the weaker.
I am telling here again, it is time to establish a consensus between peoples to prevent such sad incidents to occur again in the future. We all suffered and cried for our losses. We shouldn’t allow this happens to our children. It is not nice.
ALL CHRISITAN COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD, SHOULD EXPELL MUSLIMS… OH yehh, acutally they already dont like them.
Please remove Linda’s letter because she is another illiterate in this site.
Tell me who is she?
We communicate on this site to learn not to insult any religion.
Linda may be she is Turkish provoking Armenians , even she doesn’t know how to write Christian, she can never be Armenian. Armenians 99% are literate.
Christians are respected in Saudi Arabia and trusted, no Arab can kill any Christan.
Turks are Turks even if they change their religion will stay the same.
Religion nothing to do with genetics of killing.
The Turks are against Sunni Kurds against Arab Muslims, even against Arab tourist who spend money in their country.
I heard many stories , they insult them on their faces to say, “You are bad you are Arabs.”
Turks have race hatred.
While Arabs have respect to every clever race specially towards Armenians.
Please remove so called Linda’s letter …remove… remove……………………………..!
Mt Ararat, thanks for answering Ahmet (Ahmad )on my behalf you’re real educator.
Thanks for Gayane and John to respect my poems.
Resoman – And we’re telling here again that tolerance of Evil that comes from the sick nature of human being is neither respect nor compassionate concern. Before establishing a consensus between peoples to prevent incidents of brutality, cruelty, bloodshed, massacre, murder, etc. to occur again in the future, the things that the stronger did to the weaker first need to be acknowledged, repented, and apologized for. Many nations have suffered losses, but some have experienced them in the cruelest form: the genocide, a total annihilation of ancient civilization from the face of the Earth. If you’re really concerned about this not to be happening to your children, then go ahead and denounce the crimes of your forefathers and repent for them. Otherwise your words are cheap: one gets an impression that you’re trying to replace the need for repentance by empty-worded pacifism…
Linda’s views are provocative and do not reflect the general attitude of the Armenians towards the Muslims. We respect Muslim peoples, especially Arabs and Iranians. It is the denialist and revisionist Turkish State that we abhor and religion plays no role here whatsoever.
To Masis;
“If you’re really concerned about this not to be happening to your children, then go ahead and denounce the crimes of your forefathers and repent for them.”
My ancestors, both paternal and maternal, have never been beyond the European shores of the Bosphorus, for at least 300 years to much of our knowledge. They have been a thousand and some more miles away from the eastern Turkey. We lost some family members too, who did not in this part of the world. I should also await for an apology, but I am not. Who is going to apologize to me for our losses. You are not the only ones. Armenians too owe some apology to some people. The size of the massacre doesn’t tell anything, even one live is still important, particularly to his/her family. I understand the pains incurred by peoples of different ethnic origins. I am not any different. I am telling here again and again, it’s time to bring an end to the long lasting quarrels between peoples, not only between Armenians and Turks, but all over the world.
I am not here to defend the Turkish Government, as I have been sued by the State Security Court number of times.
What concerns me is not only my own children, everybody’s, yours too.
We have seen that in the past, what nationalism can do to the humanity.
Nationalism must die, so that the humanity can draw a deep breath, but I know it won’t die.
Resoman –
I thought I’ve made myself clear that that by appeal ‘to denounce the crimes of your forefathers and repent for them’ I meant your Ottoman authorities, and not your own paternal and maternal ancestors or next-of-kins. I’m not the only Armenian in these pages who encounters some of the Turkish commentators’ reading comprehension problems.
Genocide, that is deliberate annihilation en masse of a targeted ethnic, racial, national, or religious group go BEYOND personal losses in tragic individual instances, BEYOND war episodes, BEYOND fragmented intercommunal, interethnic, interreligious clashes, because genocides by definition are CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. Yes, an individual Armenian, too, may owe an apology to an individual Turk, since every human life is important. But the Armenian State owes no apology to the NATION of Turks, or any other nation for that matter, for wiping them out from the face of the earth. Do you appreciate the difference or you’re just being cynical to the extreme? The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide specifically states that “genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which [nations] undertake to prevent and to punish.” The size of the massacre DOES matter, as stated in Article 2 of the said Convention: “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” The Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Empire have been destroyed in whole. Out of 2.5+ mln Ottoman Armenians in 1915 only 60,000+ remain in modern-day Turkey.
And I am telling here again and again, in order to bring an end to the long-lasting quarrels between peoples, crimes must be acknowledged by the pain-inflicting State. Do you know any other way of reconciliation among people but by repentance and apology? If you do, do share with us the reconciliation method that you know but the whole mankind is unaware of.
As for nationalism, I’m afraid your point is off the subject of this discussion. Nationalism has several meanings. If you meant loyalty and devotion to a nation, I personally don’t see anything detrimental in this. If you meant a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others, I’m afraid it has no correlation whatsoever to calls for recognition of the genocide, that according to the UN Convention, nations must take actions ‘to undertake to prevent and to punish.’
Ancient Armenia and Masis (very proud Armenians)..
I get so much gratitude from reading your comments… if you were next to me, i would have given you both a hug..apreq.. excellent comments.
Thank you for your precise, legit and clear message to Murat and his kind.. also to Resoman who like Karekin from another site believe that we should just get over it and play nice.. and that demanding recognition won’t help….as many of our comrads on this site stated until the recognition and acknowlegement happens, there will be no playing nice and treating the Turks equally as other human beings…… …never…
God Bless..
Gayane
Dear all,
I know that whatever I will comment here may trigger outrageous reactions from the readers of Armenian ethnicity. Therefore, I will try to be as brief as possible without going into details.
I’m an Azerbaijani Turk. Historical facts are quite controversial with regard to events of 1915. Turkish and Armenian sources quote different facts and statements, but I agree that no human being – civilian should have been murdered during any war. Any fact of killing civilians be it Turks, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Georgians etc. killed during military operation shall be considered as a brutal and ruthless crime against humanity. Nevertheless, let’s be honest with ourselves, by digging deeper into previous tragedies, Armenian ideological machine has done good deeds neither to Armenians nor to its neighbors. The ideological machine has manipulated with partly real and partly fictional facts by affecting mentality of the whole nation of Armenians who now have deeply rooted hatred against Turks. Even if there were Great Armenia in the history although I don’t confirm this fact due to lack of solid historical facts other than Armenian related sources, it doesn’t give right Armenians living in the 20th – 21st century to abolish the fates of whole nations in order to restore “Historical” Armenia. Then let’s go back into history and all the nations who were ever part of great empires shall claim to those lands after centuries? Can you imagine what will happen in the world if Romans, Byzantines, Mongol-Seljugs, Sasanids, British will claim for their imperial territories. You don’t really care and feel the pain of thousands of people who were forcefully pushed away fro their homes just becuase your idelogical machine decided to “restore Great Armenia. Do you understand that we are talking about people here? If they not Armenians but they are Turkig origin then they not humans for you. My ancestors are the survivors or Armenian – Azerbaijani conflict of 1914-1915. My grand grand fathers lived in Erivan for centuries, now we have very few relatives from patronic line, as most of them were murdered just for being Azerbaijani Turks. You will of cource question these facts as they don’t work for you. You will also question the fact that my wife is the refugee of Garabagh war who lost her home and many members of her family. But, it doesn’t mean we have to think of revenge by killing civilians, if we have to fight we have to do it in a manhood manner, but your ideological machine dictates the opposite. They are still ready to erase many settlements and towns to restore “Great Armenia”, and my question, what do you think should happen to those living in those towns and settlements, where should they go? Who should be liable for their tragedy, my dear oldest christian nation, have you ever asked this question to yourselves?