BEIRUT, Lebanon—On Nov. 25, thousands of Lebanese-Armenians gathered in Martyrs Square in Beirut to protest Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyp Erdogan’s official visit to Lebanon. Several dozen Armenian youth briefly clashed with security police during the otherwise peaceful demonstration, as they tore a huge poster welcoming Erdogan.
The gathering was organized by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, the Hunchakian, and the Ramgavar parties.
A day earlier, Lebanese-Armenian youth had gathered near the Beirut International Airport, holding placards condemning the violence committed by Turkey both in the past and present. Erdogan left the airport using a different route and avoided the demonstrators.
Armenian parliamentary bloc chairperson Hagop Pakradouni said Lebanese officials were giving Erdogan “more importance than his real role and forgetting that he is the heir of the Ottoman Empire.” In an interview with the local OTV channel, Pakradouni condemned announcements praising Erdogan, saying that the Lebanese public must stay true to its collective memory.
Israel: Erdogan tried to divert attention from 1915
Erdogan lambasted Israel in Beirut. “Does [Israel] think it can enter Lebanon with the most modern aircraft and tanks to kill women and children, and destroy schools and hospitals, and then expect us to remain silent?” Erdogan asked on the final day of his two-day visit to Lebanon. “Does it think it can use the most modern weapons, phosphorus munitions, and cluster bombs to kill children in Gaza and then expect us to remain silent? We will not be silent, and we will support justice by all means available to us,” he added.
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According to the Jerusalem Post, an Israeli official said Erdogan’s latest anti-Israel diatribe “was a particularly lame diversion from the issue that was brought to his door in Lebanon by Armenian demonstrators.”
This is idiocracy.Erdogan in order to appeal the western nations and hopefully to ease tensions ignores illegal armenians in turkey .Eversince the economy of Turkey started to get better more and more armenians began to come to turkey. Some by aquiring citizenship most illegally.Already know turkish ultranationalist parties critise erdogan for not taking action.
There is a saying in turkish abut shooting at your own foot.This is exactly armoes are doing to themselves.I think its because they live in different countries and under different conditions
Israel should also not confuse the issue.
The Lebanese Armenians are mainly appalled by the naivete of the Lebanese people who having forgotten the horrible way they were treated under Ottoman rule, and all the years where Turkey has offered full intelligence, political/military support to Israel against the Palestinians and the Lebanese, have not only decided to become tools in Turkey’s new quest “to get closer to the east while still playing the west”, they are of all things honoring him like airheads with a banner placed in none other than the Place of Martyrs which was erected in memory of all the Lebanese who were struck down by the Ottomans! Talk about having no dignity and no decency!
Israel, on the other hand, looks ridiculous, when it thinks that people are going to fall for its technique of using what the Armenian protesters did to its advantage. The Armenians do not approve of the inhumane way Israel treats the Palestenians at home, or the abhoring way it goes out of its way to bomb and destroy the Lebanese infrastructure whenever it clashes with descendants of Palestinian refugees (ie Hezballah) at the southern border.
It is not lost on us Armenians, that Israel continues to refuse to acknowledge our Genocide for political gain, often times at the chagrin of decent jews around the world. It continues to help Turkey in the US by shamelessly killing all Armenian Genocide Resolutions in Congress. Having gone through a Holocaust itself, the jewish state has despicably decided to interfere with justice for the Genocide of another people, in order to secure its political standing with Turkey.
And the Armenians once again find themselves in the middle of a conflict that has nothing to do with them, and watch as their Genocide is used as a tool in the political rhethoric and agendas of other countries, while justice for 1.5 million people continues to be ignored.
Since when a country welcomes the head of state of another country by putting his pictures on posters? Not under western standards. How much Turkey has paid for this billboard???
As for you Deniz you are talking about a couple of thousands Armenians being illegally working in Turkey. Big deal! But Turkey is begging on her knees to be accepted by EU. Don’t you have some pride???
Turkey begging on her knees to join eu? get your facts straight man a recent poll showed that ony 32 percent of turkish people want to join e.u same with the goverment.
It makes no difference THE MOMENT E.U WENT BANKRUPT AND STARTED BAILING OUT ITS COUNTRIES THE E.U CARD ARMENIANS HAD WAS DIMINISHED.So stop fooling yourself
And stop talking about pride While you and your diaspora friends are at the comfort of your host western nations( a luxury which very soon will also cease to exist) your armenian kin in armenia lives under a banana republic, at war with a nation that might actually improve the standarts of living in all of caucus area
This is a 3rd world behaviour. How can you publish this pics and try to feel proud of it? I come here and read your news beacuse I am a Phd student in middle east history focusing on Ottomans last decade. But I am really getting dissapointed by seeing one-sided and aggressive comments by armenians. Turks killed your ancestors, right, but with this attitude you would never ever perduade turks to confess what they have done. I really wonder if all the armenians have the same point of view or is this something you get from your family while you grop up?
Andreas, are you telling me everytime a news website reports on a demonstration/ violent protest and features photographs and video from the event, it is engaging in third world behavior? I am not sure how you ended up in a PhD program, but I sure know you haven’t read the papers and visited news websites for a long time…
Dear Andreas, Ph.D. student:
Your name appears to be of Scandinavian or German origin; however, judging by your writing you are most likely a Turk or a committed Turkophile.
The fact that you deliberately lower-cased ‘armenians’ (twice) and upper-cased ‘Turks’ and ‘Ottomans’ clearly shows your bias against Armenians and your affinity to Turks. You are either a Turk masquerading as an ethnic Nordic, or you are just a Turkophile who hates Armenians: in either case your criticism of Armenians carries no weight.
And what exactly do you mean by ‘3rd world behaviour’ ? That statement in and of itself is bigoted. Assuming you are European – would that be the 1st World ? – are you implying that the 1st World is somehow morally superior to the so-called ‘3rd World’ ?
Are you morally proud of Europeans having perfected mechanized mass killing as in WW1 ?
Are you morally proud of Europeans having perfected mechanized mass murder of Civilians, as in WW2 ?
Are you morally proud of Europeans – Nazi Germans – having perfected the industrialization of Genocide/Holocaust (gas chambers, massive ovens – get it ?), after learning from the crude and barbaric methods of the Ottoman Turks’ Genocide of Armenians ?
Are you morally proud of Europeans having started WW1 and WW2 which caused the deaths of about 70 million human beings and untold suffering of innocents, particularly children ?
Is your 1st World proud of the mass murder and cultural destruction it has caused in Africa and throughout the so-called ‘3rd World’ ?
Is your 1st World proud of massive damage to the environment and the looting of the natural resources of the so-called ‘3rd World’ ?
I could go on, and on, and on …. but you get the point, since you are a Ph.D student , right ?
When you come to terms with all that, then you may – just may – come and lecture us, Armenians, about the ‘3rd World’ and all that.
Andreas Karlsson,
What would you recommend us Armenians do? It is up to Turkey, the government of which has actively worked to silence discussion of the genocide, who needs to come to the Armenians. The burden is on Turkey, not Armenians. I would also recommend you read the online English versions of the Hurriyet and Today’s Zaman newspapers. I think you’ll find the language of the Turkish nationalists disturbing as well.
We Armenians have a diverse point of view actually, but the majority of us have the same history through the experiences of our families. It’s always easy to judge others from a distance by listening to those who make the most noise.
By the way, where are you studying? The last decades of the Ottoman Empire is a fascinating study.
The Martyrs square in Beirut where Jamal (the butcher) hanged famous Arab writers and now they put Erdogan photos…What a century we live in!!!
____________________________________________
The Martyrs’ Day, May 6, 1916
Jamal Pasha, alsaffah, the Butcher,
Hatred Versified by Arab Poets
Jamal Pasha: alsaffah hanged thirty- two educated nationalists, writers and poets in consequent years in two quarters: El-Burj in Beirut and Al-Marjah Square in Damascus.
On August 21, 1915, the first group of eleven martyrs was hanged in Beirut. They were Abdul Kareem al-Khalili, the two brothers Muhammad and Mahmud el-Mahmassani,Abdul-Qader el-Kharsaa, Noor-aldeen el-Qadi, Saleem Ahmad Abass el-Hadi, Mahmood Naja Ajam, Muhammad Abdeen, Naïf Tllalo, Salih Hayder, and Ali el-Armanazi.
On May 6, 1916, less than one year from the first, the second groups of twenty-one innocent nationalist were hanged, seven of them in Damascus: Shafeek Beck el-Muayed, Abdul-hammed al-Zahawi, Prince Omar al-Jazairi, Shukri el-Asali, Abdul Al-Wahab, Rafiq Rizk Salloom, Rushdi al-Shamaa and the rest fourteen martyrs were hanged in Beirut: BatorWobouly,JerjiHadad,SaeedAqel,OmarHamad,Abdul-alghani al-Uraysi, the prince Aref al-Shahabi, the sheik Ahmad Tayara, Muhammad al-Shanti el-Yafi,Tawfiq al-Basat, Sayf-aldeen al-Khateeb, Saleem al-Jazairi, Mahmood, Jalal el-Bukhari, Ali al-Nashashibi (after Ali was hanged his sister Nuzha thrived for seven years by drinking milk only); the last one was Amen Lotfy al-Hafez, who refused to be hanged by a Turk hangman—instead he placed the noose around his neck, strapped it, and jumped off the execution chair thereby suffocating himself till end. The two Squares, El-Burj square (Beirut) and Al-Marjah Square (Damascus) later were named “Martyrs Squares.” Each year on May 6, Lebanese and Syrian people commemorate the date.
When the poet, Assad Rustom, who lived in Washington, USA, heard that his friends were hanged, he wrote the famous poem, sharply criticizing, insulting Jamal the butcher:
The Sons of Turks You are Never Muslims
“Jamal – Sir! your name means beauty
But you’re awfully ugly
Your tongue and palms are fully dirty.
You are senseless, criminal, full of sins
You have no spirit, no clean soul,
Deficient of manhood humanity.”
The Syrian poet, Nasseb Areedah (1888-1940): living in America wrote his untitled poem:
“Coffin his body
Bury his soul In the deepest grave
Don’t feel sorry Don’t lament
Who is disloyal
Remain soulless dead
Can never woke up to feel
Yet to regret.”
The poet, Khayr-eldeen Al Zarkali, wrote his titled poem:
The Arabs and the Turks
“Those Turks the grandsons of Genghis Khan.
Took young Arabs pushed them to a slave bazaar.
Promised statements changed abruptly,
Acting exactly the opposite for those held in custody
Torturing, humiliating, insulting the braves.
Yet on what they swore, pretending agreed.
They are dishonest, soulless, enjoys greed.”
The Lebanese poet, Fuad Al Khateeb (1880-1957), wrote his untitled poem, blaming the Turks,
“You Turks harmed our people in their joints so hard
Till swords blade awoke to vengeance sharply shard.”
The Armenians helped Jamal the so-called alsaffah to reach high rank in the Ottoman Empire-Astana. Later he betrayed not only the Armenians but also the entire nationalists of the Middle East. He started killing them from Anatolian mountains reaching Yemen including holy land of Muslims, the Arabia.
Reference: A Poetic Soul Shined of Genocides By Sylva Portoian
Shame on you Lebanon. It seems that 400 years of life under the Ottoman boots was not enough, may be you deserve 400 more years of “Great Ottoman Rule”. It seems that Lebanon (together with Syria and Jordan) suffer from a severe case of amnesia. Hope that an open trade zone with Turkey will be great, yet it will be great fro Turkey and surely will bankrupt the Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian agriculture and industry.
Dear Andreas,
If I could suggest, please travel to Armenia and pay a visit to Armenian Genocide Memorial Museum to collect some brutal facts as what the Ottomans did to Armenians during 1915-1916. One shocking point is the Turkish habit of taking joint pictures with their victims one hour before their execution and a second picture one hour after the victims have been murdered. This was an entertainment experience to Turks.
The Armenians of Lebanon are 99% descendants of the survivors of the Armenian Genocide. When Erdogan officially states that nothing happened in 1915-1916, you shouldn’t be surprised on the frustration felt by Armenian youth. The message to Erdogan is as follows: “Mr. Erdogan, the Armenians will chase the Turkish government where ever they travel to, until the Turkish government changes its denial attitude”. After all, the last stage on any genocide or holocaust is the “Denial” of it.
@ Armenians reading this page,
have a look at Vardan Petrosyan Հայերն ու հավերը
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K59lbuV89s
This is how Armenians are and the Turks will never change. This shows why it is good to remember the Turks’ actions and be on alert when Turks try selling peace in their home and in the world. We Armenians have to learn the lesson. I am glad to see protests against Erdogans’s visit. We notice that in many countries Turkish politicians visit the host countries do care about protests and try to keep visits secret for as long as possible (Aptullah Gul’s visit in Switzerland was known only three days in advance).
@ Andreas Karlsson,
It is great you are a PhD student in near eastern history and hopefully you are learning Turkish and Ottoman language and do not waste your time on Armenian websites. Go and read Nevzat Onaran’s latest book Emvâl-i metrûke olayi (2010) about expropriation laws and Turkification of Greek and Armenian properties and give it a try to read Raffi’s “The Fool” and you will instantly know how Armenians can be sooooo “one-sided”…. I do not regret being emotional and one-sided. And from time to time I am even confrontational towards Turks and sometimes even friendly but I always keep the facts in mind.
Some are proud of what their grandparents did and some will answer “I have Armenian blood myself.” And an interesting conversation will start. – Whatever…. It is ultimately most important to confront them with the facts. Be it in a friendly way or rather the hard way.
This doesnt look like a common demonstration news. If for example USA is protested in Stockholm, people wouldnt take down Obamas posters and Swedish media wouldnt publish it as “Top News” by showing the people climbing up and throwing down posters. This is mentality difference, this is the difference that makes “East” and “West”.
Oh Andreas, do not talk about thinks you have no idea about. Just go to any WESTern newspaper’s website, and search for “violent protests” and look at the results. let me help you. This is the one from the New York Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=violent+protests&srchst=cse
If you want more, please let me know.
Andreas, the world has somehow been turned upside-down and your disapproval of the protest in Lebanon demonstrates that you are not aware of this insanity! The protests are an ugly response to an even uglier action: the world’s collusion in Turkey’s amnesia for it’s crimes against Armenian’s. The level of aggression in the protest is directly proportional to the level of denial which in itself is the continuation of the Genocide and pours salt into the unhealed wounds of the Armenian people. As a student of history from a time period only 100 years ago, you seem to possess little understanding of the real human suffering that was caused by the Ottoman Empire throughout the Middle East and Europe or of its lingering impact on world politics today. Until you broaden your perspective, it is arrogant of you to judge the outrage you don’t understand.
I don’t advocate violence, but consider the ‘violence’ of blatant denial of history, paying historians to create false history, the destruction of remnants of ancient cultures, claiming of said remnants as “ancient Turkish artifacts”, forced Islamization, etc., not to mention the building of a new Turkish nation on the wealth and property stolen from millions of murdered Armenians, Greeks, Assyrian citizens of the Ottoman empire. Open your eyes Andreas and see that Turkey must face its past and those who coddle her in her denial are immoral partners in thwarting justice.
It is a macabre twist to suggest that we Armenians should persuade Turkey to be honest. The world should stand together to demand this. Until we human beings can do this, we should not be surprised by the continuation of Genocide around the world as an instrument to impose one groups will against another.
Andreas Karlsson,
I congratulate you for working on your Phd in Ottoman Studies. I advise you however not to base your dissertation on material printed by the Turks only, lest you don’t care about historical truth. There is tons of literature about the Ottoman rule in all the countries it controlled, including Lebanon.
It is interesting how you acknowledge that the Turks have killed Armenians, and yet you seem more outraged that Armenians demonstrate regarding those killings. Are you suggesting that denying a murder and not paying for the slaughter of 1.5 million women, men and children and the confiscation of their assets is less serious than “holding a demonstration”? Since you are obviously smart and going for your Phd, can you advise us how else we can get the justice due to us? We have been waiting for it for 95 years. Major historians, world known scholars, 20 countries, 42 states in the US, the United Nations, Nobel Prize winners, whose works you should also read, have all established the factuality of our Genocide, and yet Turkey continues to deny the truth and evade justice. Do you have any suggestions? You seem to be saying that Europeans do not demonstrate. Are you living in the same world? The French and English burn tires, go crazy and the police rushes in on them all the time. And they do this over jobs and economy! Can you imagine what they would do if the murderer nation of their ancestors were to be honored by their government?
Andreas, you sound like Ragnar Naess, I was wondering if you both work for the same company.
Regards.
Andreas Karlsson,
In what you call “Western mentality”, how should one respond to the denial of the Armenian Genocide by Gul and Erdogan? For that matter the denialist mentality in Turkey itself. I really would like to know what the proper, ethical, moral response the “Western mentality” would give.
@deniz
you write “This is exactly armoes are doing to themselves.” What exactly is an “armo”? I have been unable to find it in any dictionary. Is this word you made up for your personal vocabulary or you just made a typo?
And, yes, Turkey has been begging on knees to be accepted to EU for decades. Everybody knows it. I understand that you feel humiliated by the rejection but such is the truth. “… a recent poll showed that ony 32 percent of turkish people want to join e.u same with the goverment” — when you can’t reach the grapes you pretend they are sour.
@ Andreas
Nice to meet you Andreas. I suggest that you work on your biases to be able to produce research that will carry value.
Here is some more examples of headlines in WESTern sources talking about violent protests in WESTern countries, including Scandinavia:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7930432.stm
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-13/world/sweden.iran.demo_1_demonstrators-iranian-embassy-executions?_s=PM:WORLD
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101019/ap_on_bi_ge/eu_france_retirement_strikes
I think Katia K ´s last paragraph gives an exact definition.This bloke here either is an ignorant person history wise or out to agitate,anger us Armenians.
At any case he will not change.Best is to refer him to non-Armenian historians and also ignore him a bit.He does not deserve Too much advice or explanations.
Also be aware that recent Turkish diplomatic moves are all futile tries.
EU Entry ,excluded, since that one is more than qtr century old.
To lead the Islamic countries,viz .Neaar all invited to istanbul months ago,also NIL
Now last try at China ,Mr. Davutoghlu´s declaration that ¨my ancestors came from Uyghur land,where h evisited still awaiting Chinese re action/response.
However, at least through him the wolrd got confirmation that his historians and diplomats previous declaration are bases as to Turks having Änatolia¨as their cradle
Thanks for all the replies. (excluding Avery and Sylvia) Sure people can protest anything they disagree. But thats not the point.
Showing bunch of people throwing down posters, publishing and getting proud of it. That is the point!
Avery.. love your post.. even though our infameous Andreas did not like it…
Boyajian- excellent as always..
Katia jan- never cease to amaze me with your posts
Daron- i was laughing so hard .. thanks for the laugh.. I LOVED the comparison.. and i would not be surprised if they know each other..lol
Gina- great post my dear.. the sources hopefully will help our so called PHd student to help expand his knowledge because obviously he possesses no knowledge about history and background on Armenian and Ottoman History…
Random Armenian- always a pleasure..:)
Sylva jan- your insight and feelings are always appreciated…
Deniz- no comment
Andreas- wow .. such ignorance… you said “people throwing down posters, publishing and getting proud of it””..now are you a phsycologist to know exactly what those people feel ..a re you sure it is pride? now can you tell me from what books did you learn that what the Armenians were doing was pride and not anger…frustration, annoyance and simply “we have had it”… in addition, by publishing this in the ARMENIAN weekly for the ARMENIAN people (majority) should not be a reason for you to come in here and act like you are the best of the crop, ..or are you suggesting that AW needs your approval and permission before they publish such news? i don’t know these things.. i am not a PhD student so maybe you can tell us… please go ahead and tell us…
Thanks
sireli hayrenakitsner,
apreq, shat apreq
kumzem asel vor polor@d shat hamberanqov eq lestvatz,
vor karoghatsaq ayd anpetq andreasin manramasn phokhadartsuthyunner haythaythel,
vorun inq yer
sireli hayrenakitsner,
apreq, shat apreq
kumzem asel vor polor@dshat hamberanqov eq lestvatz,
vor karoghatsaq ayd anpetq andreasin manramasn phokhadartsuthyunner haythaythel,
vorun inq yerbeq arzhani che…
andreas,
you are (can’t find an appropriate adjective),
who died and made you the spokesperson of western values, if you are truly western, as you tone is only too desperate to suggest, you would know that we armenians are equally if not more western that you, and the armenian weekly is a western publication, and the armenians living in lebanon, are westerners who were driven out of their western homes by the osmanian criminals, with the help of some other western traitors…
so before you point the finger of shame at others, take a look inward, and you’ll see that a lot needs to be worked on.
it takes a lot of foolish nerves to tell one westerner that things are otherwise more civilized in your virtual dream west…as though we don’t live there and we don’t know what’s going on…
The problem is some people here cant tolerate others opinions. I know we have different backgrounds. Maybe we sweds are too tolerant for this world.
I see some people mentioning my Phd. Let me inform you to help your curioisty;
I am writing my research paper about the national stucture of Ottomans. Turks, Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Assyrians, Tatars….
I have been searching pure and rich sources for Armenian and Tatar communities, hoped to get a good contact through this site but got dissapointed..
I know i came to a wrong place.. Stay in peace!
mr. andreas
first you speak on behalf of the west,
and now you speak on behalf of the swedes,
once again, who gave you the authority to speak and or represent anyone but your pompous, pseudo noble, so-called extremely civilized and all too forgiving self???
it is a sad day for academia, when the likes of you are forcing themselves in, to have their few moments of attention with their wasteful studies,
go praise the turks, they give more money to corrupt europeans who pay them any attention…they suffer from inferiority complex, lucky for the likes of you
by the way, we do tolerate other peoples’ opinions, except for the likes of you, with their holier than thou remarks
how dare you speak with that condescending tone???
you no more represent the west and or the swedes than i the chinese,
so sorry you were disappointed with this website, is it not oppressed and accommodating enough for your
“civilized, much tolerant, western, i am better than you… expectations”???
Andreas,
the problem is not your opinion. The problem is your condescending tone. Violent demonstrations DO happen in Sweden, as everywhere else, and they DO make headlines. I have no idea why you see yourself superior. In my eyes, you are not. Good luck with your studies.
Seems to me Andreas is getting his textbooks from Turkish LIEbrary. That’s just my humble opinion. I wouldn’t waste my time scoring points with the individual.
Hello Armenians,
I was visiting my kid sister in Stockholm,Sweden in the summer of 2001, after a week stay at my sister’s I rented a car and drove up to the second largest city on the west coast of Sweden called Goteburg ( pronounced YOT BURG ). I stayed at SCANDIC Hotel in downtown Yotburg, and for three days THIS what I witnessed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPjMs4VFa9g
You still didnt get my point. I do not underestimate the protests,
Getting proud of couple of people who are throwing down posters.. This is what I am trying to focus on, not the protest, not criticising the genocide, not how ugly turkish people look like(this is totally an independent subject to discuss, greetings to the so called poet) . I used to see these behaviour in Pakistan, China, Uganda. Sure people can act as they wish..
I am not saying that I am superior than you but most probably I have a better global vision than most of commentators here.
Please I dont expect any reply from you. Thanks for your time
Daron, you make an interesting observation. I was also struck by the resemblance to our old friend. Ironically, Ragnar and Andreas even have very similar icons when they post.
I wish you success in your studies Andreas but encourage you to withhold judgment against the expressions of protest of people who have long been denied justice. Walk a mile in their shoes and come to know their frustration and pain and then you will be better equipped to comment. Violence is never the best answer but civil disobedience is sometimes the only recourse to those who can find no justice. Imagine for a moment that your family was murdered several decades ago and that the guilty were never brought to justice, actively denied the truth and falsified facts to thwart justice. Then one morning you awoke to a billboard in your backyard, praising the guilty party. Would you not feel discomforted at the least. Perhaps you’d attempt to bring it down. Perhaps your neighbors would even consider you ‘uncivilized’ as you removed the insulting object from your sight.
Also I was a bit disappointed that you did not comment on the notion that denial of genocide is itself an act of aggression and the last stage of genocide. The violent elimination and deportation of minorities in the last years of the Ottoman Empire was widespread and has been well documented. Also the modern republic of Turkey illegally expropriated the assets of these forceably eliminated minorities. I think you should be sure to familiarize yourself with these facts before you decide to criticize those who have watched Turkey grow in status among the nations of the world at the expense of their murdered ancestors and the loss of their heritage and inheritance.
The insane and idiotic rationalizations of Turkey’s anti-Armenianism are slowly dying in the West. It seems that most in Europe now are awake to the truth.
In the U.S. it is becoming more and more known that certain authors and historians that are bigoted in favor of Turkey and against Armenia are mercenary hacks.
The ridiculous policies of Erdogan are finally knocking sense into certain politicians (many already knew the truth).
The continued salience of the Kurdish issue in Turkey will further force changes.
Again Andreas
You said….Getting proud of couple of people who are throwing down posters.. I asked you a simply question in my previous post.. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS INFORMATION??? What sources did you read or use that gave you that impression.. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS PRIDE… I don’t understand.. DU QO ESHNES QSHUM…it is Armenian.. sorry don’t have time to find translation for you.. maybe one of the people who you called not as worldly or having global vision as you can translate it for you..
Reality check my dear Andreas…. you will always be dissapointed when you come in here with your high and mighty attitude.. people will not allow you to mingle and talk to them if you act you know better or you talk down without truly knowing the audience first.. so prepare yourself to be dissapointed for a long time.. unless you change your PHd self a bit and put yourself in the shoes of your audience.. maybe then some things may change…
Daron jan.. now I am convinced that Adnreas is a relative of Ragnars.. if not blood relative, I would say they are academia relatives… same mentality, same way of speaking, they posses no knowledge but they claim themselves to be PHds… they BOTH are working on their research paper about the national stucture of OTTOMANs… very interesting.. is this a new trend? Europeans writing research papers on Turkey, Ottomans, and such? I wonder why? I am going to take a wild guess and say there is alot of money in this type of research.. what do you say?
Hayrenaser jan.. great comments.. apres…loved it…..
Gayane
Thanks Jay jan.. I saw the clip..wow…
Maybe that will show Andreas that his westernized corner may not be westernized after all…
sireli gayane
khorin shnorhakaluthyunner jerm gnahatakannerud
qo nman hayrenaser armenuhinner@ bazmanan
ketses
You’re welcome Gayane,
These riots took place on Jun 4th, 5th and 6th of ’01, Over 50,000 protesters participated during the EU-US summit.
@gayane; I got that information because it is so clear for a neutral reader that this news is intensively flattering the protestors. (Removers of the poster)
You can not see any Swedish media supporting violent protestors in any kind of these riots.
If you enjoyed watching riots from Sweden have a look at this one too;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HaJwjHC4Uk&feature=related
Getting proud of violence will just show the level of human, nothing more.
I dont know who is Naes but now I got your mentality. This conversation is getting lower and lower each time you reply. “Jag bryr inte mig” we say in Swedish which means your words have zero meaning for me.
Have a nice friday!
Andreas… please stop now before you get your self more and more in negative light with the audience here.. …
You call yourself a neutral reader? are you referring the nuetral reader to yourself? if you are talking about yourself, then I would not say you are neutral.. you definintely have favoratism toward Turkey more than Armenians.. this is just from what i have read so far…. i mean come on.. be honest with yourself.. are you not the one working on your research paper on Turkey? ok ok ok… lets just say you are a neutral reader… just because you saw the clip and came with that conclusion.. it does not mean that is the case.. until you conduct physcological tests on everyone who took down the poster to understand why they did it and what was going through their minds, you can’t conclude that how this was presented was o show pure pride.. i say you are wrong in that.. i am sorry. plain and simple…but you do have the right to voice your opinion and what you voiced here is simply just that and THAT my dear has a zero meaning for me….
Thank you sir, maam or PHd student and have a wonderful evening…
Have you watched the clip Jay provided for your reference? what do you say about that? it is on YOU TUBE.. can’t get as public as that.. would not you say?
G
Please Gayane,
You are very Hearty-Clever Lady
As I read your writing
You want to teach the truth
But can’t teach every one
Some can learn…some not!!!
People who want to sell
What left from our blood
To earn status
One-day they will regret…
If they are honest
If not…?
Let we pray for them
As they never suffered in life
As we did…
As Boyajian said,
“They need to have our shoes to walk with”
Till its get old
Like ours…
They cannot leave us bare
As we can always stitch new
And walk with it…
Hope to reach Ararat and Van Lake…
Sylva-MD-Poetry
True Sylva jan.. very true…
May we reach to those who are willing to open their hearts, minds and souls to truly understand what suffering can bring to one nation who is still struggling to receive an apology and recognition to start with… they don’t know what what pain truly means…
Gayane
gayane jan,
Don’t sweat the lil’ stuff , ignore the ‘ODAR’, This is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqksPTodg3Q
To Tashnak Unger. ARTURO. ……RIP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pTLaYA6bqI
Selfish vs Selfless
Who doesn’t feel
With human suffering—
[Those…lost every thing
Thrived on sand to survive again]
That creature is not a human…
He laughs at him self
To say, “I’m educated man.”
He is born selfish and can’t be selfless
Will stay…without having a real Love
As no-one likes to receive his cold embrace!
Can’t create new life
As he can’t feel to clear
Tears of the creatures in pain.
Sylva-MD-Poetry
December 4, 2010
Andreas, I won’t add any feedback to your comments. I think my brothers and sisters have given you a full perspective. I would however like to offer you the website of an Armenian organization that is dedicated to Armenian scholarly research and studies. It is http://www.naasrs.org.
My advice for you is to listen to the common theme in the comments to you….regardless of the style, content or source. They are all connected by a bond to an ancient civilization and a responsibility to ensure future .Within this commitment is a deep rooted frustration over the lack of justice with the tragedies our people have suffered. Erodogan represents the denial of the crime that murdered our nation, stole our personal property and evicted our people from their historic homeland.
You touched a nerve with your comments. I hope that as you conduct your scholarly research you will see this bond and begin to understand the nature of the feedback you received. These Armenians you are studying were civil and contributing members of Ottoman society. The Turkish leadership engaged in a crime to murder its own citizens in an insane ethnocentric attempt to preserve what was left of the empire for Turks.
Study what happened to the Ottomans Assyrians or the Ottoman Greeks? Erdogan represents the denial of this crime and the resulting void of justice. What sustains our people is to be informed of our history, to embrace it as a part of our family and continue the quest for justice. You will find in your research an honorable people, who were horribly mistreated, survived and stand on the side of the truth.
Welll said Stepan jan.. well said… he truly touched a very sensitive nerve with his comments… and I hope from reading everything and doing in depth research of our people and history, he will finally understand what was demonstrated in this clip is not “the word proud” that he used few times in his comments but years of denial, mistreatement and stolen culture, lives and wealth…
Jay jan.. I have heard of Taguhi.. beautiful lady with a beautiful voice.. great song as well..:) thank you for sharing…
Gayane
I was in Beirut weekend, and i have visited Burj Hammud, taxi driver said to me, dont say to anybody you are turkish. of course i dont beilive him. I went there spoke with people, turkish. What i felt, i felt that, i found my old relatives, and i felt same in London, New York, Chicago, Tehran, Damascus. If you go to Beirut you must have lunch or dinner at Cheif’s Restaurant.
I am sure in the future we will live together again
Istanbul.
Chances are you could be one of the many ‘Hidden Armenians’ in Turkey, Selam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h69Zz0sV0GY
Andreas, there are some Armenians like myself who do not agree in the approach. However, you may not like what I have to say. Armenians allowed to much time pass and are depending on politicians to pass the genocide resolution only to be disappointed once again. Turkey told the US if they pass the resolution Turkey will not allow the US to use its air space nor Incerlik Air Base which the USA helped build. The USA has given Turkey billions and billions of, what I call, HARD EARNED AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS. Turkey is one of the largest recipients of USA tax money. In other words, we give them money and they get to dictate American policy. Politicians use this as their excuse to deny Armenians and to further fan the flame. Who are they to dictate anything to the USA especially since we give them money in these very difficult financial times? Year after year, decade after decade Armenians have been toyed with. Promise after promise all empty promises. I am sure if the American public knew of this, things would change. No country has the right to dictate anything to the USA especially when they are on our list of welfare recipient countries.