Sassounian: If Turks Had Not Denied the Genocide, CBS Wouldn’t Have Aired This Show

Turks have only themselves to blame for their unhappiness with the airing of a revealing program on the Armenian Genocide by CBS on Feb. 28.

Were it not for the Turkish government’s constant denials and distortions, the Armenian Genocide could have become a forgotten episode in world history. Yet, because Turks refuse to face their crimes and persist in concocting outrageous lies, fair-minded people everywhere take various measures to set the record straight, as CBS did in “60 Minutes” last Sunday. As long as Turks continue their refusal to acknowledge the truth, they will suffer the indignation of being called mass murderers and genocide deniers by the international community—a deserved punishment for committing such heinous crimes, and then covering them up! The triumvirate of executioners of the Armenian nation—Talaat, Enver, and Jemal—could have never imagined that millions of people around the world, a century later, would still remember the dastardly crimes they committed in 1915.

It was noteworthy that several days before CBS aired this program, Turkish organizations were already urging their members to write to the network’s executives to complain about the segment on the Armenian Genocide, even though they had no clue about its content. The well-known Armenian saying, “kogh sirde togh,” aptly describes this bizarre Turkish behavior. Loosely translated, this expression characterizes “a thief afraid of being exposed.” With a guilty conscience, Turks constantly fear being blamed for committing genocide and loudly proclaim their innocence, long before anyone accuses them of perpetrating such a crime.

The 12-minute segment on the Armenian Genocide totally debunked the Turkish myth of innocence in a most dramatic fashion. CBS correspondent Bob Simon along with Prof. Peter Balakian traveled all the way to Der Zor, Syria—“the Armenian Auschwitz”—where they uncovered bone fragments of Armenian victims, by simply scratching the surface of the desert sand with their fingertips.

The shocking images must have left an indelible mark on the minds of millions of viewers. Fast-talking Turkish denialists could not wipe away what the audience saw with their own eyes. No one could believe former Turkish Ambassador Nabi Sensoy’s deceptive words, that Armenians were not killed but simply deported. When pressed by Simon, Sensoy first dismissed the significance of the unearthed bones, and then tried to couch his falsehoods in an aura of respectability by stating that the UN’s definition of genocide required the element of “intent.” He finally admitted that many Armenians “perished,” but that was not the Turks’ intent. How could 1.5 million men, women, and children, rounded up from all corners of the Ottoman Empire, vanish into thin air? Turkey’s ambassador to Washington, who was unceremoniously dismissed from his post after that interview, conveniently forgot to mention another clause of the UN definition of genocide: “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction.” It is regrettable that CBS provided a national platform to this genocide denialist—something it would never do when airing a program on the Holocaust. Would CBS put on the air a Nazi or a Holocaust denier to present “the other side of the story?”

Of course, it is not possible to cover all facets of the Armenian Genocide in 12 minutes. The segment on “60 Minutes” could have been even more devastating to the Turks, had the producers of been a bit more diligent in their investigation. For example, it is not true that “no U.S. President has ever uttered the word genocide.” It is well known that Pres. Reagan, in his Presidential Proclamation of April 22, 1981, made reference to the Armenian Genocide.

Bob Simon also stated that Turkish-instigated political pressure blocked the passage of a congressional resolution on the Armenian Genocide in 2007. What he neglected to mention were the two resolutions that were adopted by the U.S. House of Representatives in 1975 and 1984. When Simon asked the Turkish envoy why eight former U.S. Secretaries of State had rallied behind Turkey to kill the 2007 resolution, Sensoy responded by pointing to Turkey’s importance to the United States. He was implying that geopolitical considerations far outweighed the loss of 1.5 million lives!

Finally, Simon wrongly asserted that the Armenia-Turkey protocols contained a clause calling for the formation of a historical commission “to rule on whether a genocide took place.” Although this clause is vaguely worded, it does not call for the establishment for such a fact-finding commission.

Regardless of these errors, millions of Americans who watched the program must have come away with the clear understanding that in 1915 the Turks had engaged in “race extermination,” as U.S. Ambassador Henry Morgenthau had reported to the State Department.

In order to counter the negative Turkish comments inundating CBS, readers are urged to send e-mails thanking “60 Minutes” for its enlightening program that effectively fights genocide denial. To view the TV program and send a comment, please visit http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6253043n.

We also thank Balakian for his eloquent explanations and for accompanying the CBS crew to the Syrian desert.

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Harut Sassounian

California Courier Editor
Harut Sassounian is the publisher of The California Courier, a weekly newspaper based in Glendale, Calif. He is the president of the Armenia Artsakh Fund, a non-profit organization that has donated to Armenia and Artsakh $917 million of humanitarian aid, mostly medicines, since 1989 (including its predecessor, the United Armenian Fund). He has been decorated by the presidents of Armenia and Artsakh and the heads of the Armenian Apostolic and Catholic churches. He is also the recipient of the Ellis Island Medal of Honor.

62 Comments

  1. It is really sad to see when western countries try to cover-up a massive crime, a genocide against Armenian women, men and children by Turkey because Turkey has become geographically important place for western business.

    Where is the justice, sorry there will never be justice for the Armenian Genocide but only recognition. And this too, the west can’t seem to decide.

  2. The errors by Mr. Simon were purposeful in order to appease the ADL and other Turkish sponsers. Make no mistake about it, America’s free speech has been hijacked by the very first group of people who invented state sponsered terrorism. After all, that great humanitarian, Ghengis Khan, used to rule by inflicting terror and fear and passed on that doctrine to his decendants.

    How pathetic, for almost 50 years the Turkish government would threaten some sort of action if even a movie was made on the subject. Why should foriegn countries and corporations limit American freedoms like the First Amendment?

  3. Right on the mark Mr. Sassounian. Excellent analysis.
    If the CBS is inundated with angry letters from disgruntled genocide deniers and those ignorant of objective history, they can thank the Turkish government and its surrogate liars operating within the State Department for catering to their needs on this issue for decades.

  4. My understanding of the western world is that of liberty of the people, democracy, capitalism, respect of choice, the rule of the majority, room for various ideologies and religions, the value of history and the importance of one’s past, to grasp the present and to evaluate and analize the future; importance of culture, history, art, etc…

    This same western world is the one who denies the tragedies of once past of the Armenian people. Ironic enough the figures who shaped the nowadays western world are the same people who were reporting about this barbaric act of extermination of a human race by the Ottoman Empire. Their reports, pictures, historical footages are one of our major proofs to the painful reality which we still- 95 years after- consider to be a cause rather than a historic known fact.

    Our demands are our rights- the rights of a race tortured and masacred for a barbaric ideology of pantouranism.
    We are demanding the acceptance of what would only put an end to an ongoing masacre of a different sort to the Armenians.

    I would only want to make sure that my ancestors’ faced horrific past is not to be forgotten. I do not blaime the Turks for it’s not their dead. But i do blaime them and the entire world for their constant struggle to make sure the truth is not revealed for purposes of international politics over what is just, right, moral and ethical.

    We want an end to a denial of my peoples’ past, religion, culture…the same concepts that the western world show to be advocate of…

  5. Whatever the flaws, I think CBS, Simon and Peter Balakian should be commended highly. However, it was interesting and very revealing to see the BBC broadcast a statement read by Radovan Karadzic in court, where he used precisely the same language as Sensoy to proclaim his and Serbian innocence in the treatment of Bosnian Muslims.  The similarity was hard to miss – denial is all pretty much the same, I suppose. Though, at this point, you might think most Turks would also see a similarity, and be somewhat embarrassed to have a representative of their country say such shameful and frankly, stupid, things on camera. Looking at Sensoy’s face, I could only think his family had little or no historic connection w/ Anatolia, unlike every single Armenian around the world who has the most ancient of roots there.
     

  6. Woooopteeeee Woo….the CBS and 60 minutes finally mustered enough courage to air the truth about the Armenian genocide.
    May I ask what the hell took them so long????????????? 95 years after a genocide and just now their realizing the truth about it all and ready to publicize it without any excuses! Give me a break. The diplomatic evidence and the historical truth has been collecting dust in America’s Library of Congress and other archives for decades now. The sand dunes of bones where my murdered Armenian ancestors were unjustly killed in 1915 has been sitting in that pile at Der Zor in Syria for almost 100 years now.
    I appreciate the whole 12 minutes Mr. Simon, but is waiting 95 years to air 12 minutes about a crime against humanity and its blatant denial really how a media organization intends to educates its viewers about pressing issues affecting America’s stance on anything especially Genocide??????????????????????

  7. Genocide ( Holocaust) in Europe & Germany (against jews)? Yes!
    Genocide in Cambodia? Of course!
    Genocide in Rwanda? Why not!
    Genocide in Darfur? It’s still going on, idiot!
    But Genocide in the Ottoman empire against the native people of Armenia, usurped by turks? No, no, no! Only sad events! Events that steal tears of crocodile , from the eyes of democratic rulers! The very favorable geographic position of Turkey, has made Western states & their rulers to view things with a “realistic” look! Yes, the wiping out of 1,500,000  Armenians is nothing! After 95 yrs. let them rest in peace, but let’s not  disturb the strategies of the most Democratic states! 
    Let it be very clear, to every one, that Turkey, as Mr. H. Sassounian has stated, with its persistent denials, will only make the matters worse for itself.
    And in the US? The very existence of millions of documents, from its missionaries which were spread in Armenian communities from Izmir to Cilicia, Kharpert, Van, etc. is the best proof of Turkey’s planning & execution of the lst Genocide of the 20th cent. Still, the US consuls’ & ambassador H. Morg.’s reports leave no doubt about this matter. But the Injerlik air base is worth  more than the lives & properties of millions of innocents!

  8. Hey Harut:

    Ask yourself if your title even makes any sense! You’ve already been proven to have no credibility, your racisism is showing just a tad, wouldn’t you say! 

    In sum, how wonderful and interesting how this CBS piece was so un-biased and fair, as it clearly took the time to objectively discuss the atrocities committed by dashnaks upon moslems and non-moslems alike (as is typical of ALL Armenian pieces out there since WWI)! Bob Simon and P. Balakian are truly professional jounalists…NOT!! LMAO  :-) 

  9. Robert,
    Again you proved your point with wonderful facts, NOT!
    Have you ever read a history book outside of  Turkey or one not paid for by the ITS? Sorry but the Armenian Genocide is pretty well documented even IN OUR OWN UNITED STATES ARCHIVES. Or Is that biased or unfair to you as well? The Armenians were not exterminated for Ottoman protection but rather for envy, pure racism and most of all theft of their property and money. 99% of the murdered were unarmed civilians? Why were the  Assyrians and Greeks murdered as well? Did  they murder Muslims too?

  10. Hey Robert! Ask yourself how pathetic you look by wasting your time day and night trying to discredit Armenians to no avail on this website. Monitoring this website can’t be your life. I mean what are they paying you for this? …or wait a minute you are so proud of Ataturk and SO SO PROUD of your PERFECT COUNTRY OF TURKEY that you do it pro bono right? Don’t get me wrong your quite entertaining at times while the rest of us discuss topics and issues beyond your intellectual capacity not to mention level of maturity…but it stops at that sadly. A sort of clown here for our amusement that merely recites what the embassy told you to in the hopes that some unwary visitor will actually take your comments seriously….fat chance really!

    The bottom line however is that the majority of visitors to this site ultimately stop laughing after reading your posts and really feel sorry for you and people like you that have been left in the dark by your very PROUD COUNTRY AND PEOPLE.
    The Turkish PM will pay his respects at the memorial for the 1.5 million martyrs of the Armenian Genocide in Yerevan soon enough and Western Armenia will be returned. You will see this day as well Robert.
    PS – Consider yourself lucky that Mr. Simon’s revealing CBS program on the Armenian Genocide didn’t go for a full hour instead of only 12 minutes. Perhaps next time it will!
    Great work Harut and well said Levon, Realist Karekin, George and John.

  11. Dear Mr. Sassounian; You commented very well for the CBS’ 60 Minute airing of the Armenian Genocide on February 28th.  Just a couple of thoughts; Talaat has already mentioned that his dastadly heinous crimes against the Armenian people has left the whole nation so much crippled that the Armenians would not be able to raise their heads to complain about it or ask for reparations for the next 50 years.  And it was only in 1965 (exactly 50 years later) that Armenians throughout the world started commemorating the Armenian Genocide.  However, thanks to the Zionist Jews in Washington who backed up the Turks to deny the Genocide, it has lasted now 95 years, and Armenians are still fighting to have Washington recognize and pass a resolution for the AG.  The second thing I wished to mention is although Mr. Balakian did a good job and thanks to his good efforts he was able to air our plight for the Genocide on 60 Minutes and we should wholeheartedly thank him for it; however I wish he had prior to going and airing at Der El Zor, Syria, he had some scientists checked several bones in the area to have proof that it consisted only the DNA’s of Armenian people.  That way Nabi Sensoy of Turkey wouldn’t be able to callously dismissed it nor say that it was a war time and that those bones at Der Zor could have been of other people too and not just Armenians. 
     

  12. Peter Balakian’s trip to Der-Zor was funded by the US State Department ( New York Times Magazine, Dec 8th, 2008, “Bones”)
    Naturally, the US State Department likes the soft-Armenians like poet Peter Balakian, and the Knights-of Vartan group, etc..  Out of all the experts and international genocide scholars, it picks Balakian to strategically misrepresent and fool Armenians to free Turkey from accountability for its crime of genocide.
    The US State Department wanted this segment aired 5 days before the house resolution, in order to defeat it.  The segment was riddled with strategic mis-representations; subversive language, Turkish propaganda.  Half the segment was dedicated to Turksih denial; the other half was dedicated to CBS’s startegic misrepresentation.
    There wasn’t a single map displayed; there was no reference to geography; and Bob Simon led the viewer to beleive that the bulk of the Armenians hailed from Istanbul, as opposed to Western Armenian provinces and territories of the first Armenian Republic.
    By referring to the Armenian genocide as a “battle over history”, clearly shows that CBS does not understand the meaning of Genocide. Genocide stops when denial ends. The Armenian genocide (1915-2010) is on-going. Genocide is not just the act of killing; it is the eradication of any reference to history, culture, architecture, references to a group, and the names of towns and places, etc, .. as if the victims never existed.
    The viewer is supposed to believe the following:
    –  There is no defined Western Armenian territory (land)
    –  It is a battle between historians to decide.
    –  Acknowledgment *without* holding Turkey Accountable for the crime of genocide.
    –  No reparation, No restitution and No land.

  13. This report raises some good points and important facts on the Armenian Genocide, but is rife with big negatives, deliberate misrepresentations and outright lies:
     
    1.  Its frequent use of the terms “battle…the massacres…the events” to describe an incontestable fact is unacceptable and constitutes an unconscionable act of genocide denial — the ultimate form of hate speech!
     
    Allowing Amb. Sensoy the opportunity to deny the Armenian Genocide on national television is as criminal and cruel an act as airing any statements by a neo-Nazi leader denying the Jewish Holocaust!
     
    2.  It deliberately fails to identify the Armenian homeland of more than four millennia.
     
    There is no reference to “Anatolia…eastern (Ottoman) Turkey…Western Armenia and Cilicia…”
     
    CBS: “But our story begins where the lives of so many Armenians ended, far from Istanbul, in the desert…The survivors ended up in concentration camps hundreds of miles from Istanbul, out of sight.”
     
    Istanbul (then Constantinople) was never the Armenian homeland or part of the Armenian homeland. During the Armenian Genocide, Armenians (95%+) were cleansed and driven primarily from Western Armenia and Cilicia!
     
    CBS deliberately does not want the nation to identify and respect the specific location and boundaries of the occupied Armenian homeland, the return of which is the crux of the Armenian Question and the main factor that would end the Armenian Genocide!
     
    3.  CBS: “Which is probably why no U.S. president has uttered the word genocide.”
     
    This is a blatant lie, as we know that Reagan used the “G” word during his presidency!
     
    4.  It highlights the power imbalance between Armenia and Turkey and stresses Turkey’s “importance” to the United States and so-called “regional superpower” status.
     
    CBS: “The use of the word genocide is regarded as an insult to the Turkish nation; it is a jailable offense…”
     
    Why didn’t CBS emphasize that the nonuse “of the word genocide is regarded as an insult to the [Armenian] nation”?!
     
    5.  With the one-sided Armenia-Turkey protocols practically dead, the timing of this report is driven by a desire to “kill the bill” using the same immoral arguments and tactics that somehow “worked” in 2007.
     
    Most congressional supporters of the Armenian Genocide resolution are not that foolish and will not buy into these denialist measures.
     
    When the House passed similar legislation in the late 1970s and early 1980s, Turkey didn’t and couldn’t retaliate! All it did was cry and verbally abuse the United States, and days later, everything was back to normal.

    This righteous bill will again pass in the Foreign Relations Committee and advance to the House floor for a full and successful vote!

  14. Great analysis Mr Sassounian, I love reading your articles. What I love about this is the timing it aired on CBS and not on the usual channel like PBS who airs segments on Armenians and Genocide issues followed by a fundraising. Isn’t it interesting however that segments like this seem to surface only when Israel and Turkey are not in good terms… I think the Armenian Genocide issue is an important card which Israel plays only when necessary… 

  15. I am afraid that both Berj Jololian and Kevork, your justified cynicism towards the U.S. Congressional caucus is more than justified.  There were many defeitist conducts by CBS and I am not at all very eager to thank them; when indeed if it was the Haulocaust the Zionist Jews would NEVER go knocking on the door of the neo-Nazis and give them any chance to deny the Haulocaust.  All your arguments and fact that they never mentioned about restitution and reparations of our Western Armenian historical homeland that it has been Armenia for over 8 thousand years was never mentioned.  Yet the Zionist Jews after 2 thousand years and plus they went to Palestine to claim their lands back.  Where is ours????  Where is our own Western Armenian homeland rights????  Where is the Sevres Treaties Legal rights?????  Where is the Wilson Arbitration Award that is a LEGAL DOCUMENT?????   No mention of it by CBS and many many misrepresentations to fool the people in the US.  We have the Wilson Arbitration Award that every Armenian has to cry over their voices to claim it!!!  

  16. If Turkish Government starts  to overtly and frankly speak about the fact of state terrorism, ethnic cleansing, and Turkish-Armenian banditism of the beginning of the 20th century, then the so-called Turkish nation will flourish, and today’s Armenians will remain the same boastful people likewise Munhausen. Turkish hardness keeps away the Armenia Government grow into a full bastard. That’s why, I appreciate Turkishness.

  17. you can demand blood from a stone, but will you get it?  however, if an earthquake breaks the stone in a natural way, you just may be in luck.

  18. I am Turkish living in an Armanian neigbourhood. I am not going to argue the points made here since I know for a fact that we will all end up at the library like the historians have in the past. At the end, none of this will take us anywhere. If Armanians or supporters of Armania expect a Turkish citizen, let alone a minister to apologise for any so called Genocide, then I suggest dont waste your time waiting for such. No one who is born a Turk will apologise for anything. I know it sounds harsh and very proud and patriotic however this is exactly the case, Turks are a very proud nation and if they done something then there must have been a reason for it.(as far as Turks consider)
    One writer here complains about his grandmother or family being raped and murdered by Ottomans back in the time and is still in sorrow. I try to understand his pain and curse against this unfair situation however, his brother in Turkey is also in the same level of hatred against the Armanian that murdered his Turkish grandfather. One is called a genocide because 1.5 million is dead. What do you call the other then…when only a 1000 is killed, its just ok but not ok when its 1.5million. Come on guys, I personally dont think Ottoman was an empire that would practice genocide however even if they did then there must have been a reason for it, some sort of push must have been there and looking at how Armanians behave today, I can see how this was possible.
    A country in a very valuable geographical position, Turkey. Yes and its the only thing they have left and in order to keep the damn place, they had to fight the French, Greeks, Brits and those backstabbers in the inside of the country whether it be Armanians, the Kurds or the Arabs. Anyway, I wish we were left alone and in peace for just once since the Turks today do nothing but watch countries like Untited States practicing Genocide against the Muslims. Taking over countries and causing the death of people for the sake of money and  land. At least, Ottoman as we know it never done such. And one last note for Armanians, you have waited 95 years for what? Well, what ever it is, you must be used to it by now and that is good cause get used to it. until you have the army strong enough  to take over Turkey, you ought to wait. Glad I wont see it in my life time. You should feel lucky that you have no petrol or else US would have taken over your land already and who knows, maybe one day you beloved ancestors of Ottamans may knock on your door and just walk in.

    Enough is enough, historians should talk not anyone who has a bleeding pc and fingers to type on just for the sake of showing Turkish hatred.

    US citizens, you should be more involved in your close history. One have hard time understanding how such democrat people of democratic country can throw such heavy words such as genocide..we would like to know why your soldiers are raping and killing innocent people of Iraq and Afganistan? Who is to judge you and have a case against you? Everyone will pay for what they did, let it be the Turks and their past empire or the Americans and their (almost) past empire.

  19. I PERFECTLY UNDERSTAND ARMENIAN POINT OF YOU, THAT YOU FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN 1914-15 AT EAST OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE, YOU CALLED GENOCIDE, TURKS REFUSE TO ACCEPT SUCH A WORD…..YOU SOLLY BLAME TURKS, WHAT HAPPENED DURING THAT TIME; YOU LIVED WITH TURKS AS A OTTOMAN CITIZENS BETWEEN 1071 TO 1914, ABOUT 900 YEARS; YOU LIVED SIDE BY SIDE IN VILLAGES, TOWNS AND CITIES. ALTHOUGH TURKS HAD THE POWER ALL DOES YEARS (900 YRS), THEY DECIDED TO NOT KILL ANY ARMENIANS. BUT, SUDDENLY THIS EVIL TURKS CHANGED THEIR MINE AND STARTED TO KILL YOU IN MILLIONS…COME ON, YOU CAN NOT CONVINCE ANYBODY LIKE THAT, YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING TO DOES PEOPLE THAT THEY TURNED THEM AGAINST YOU. IT IS MAY BE THAT WHEN OTTOMAN EMPIRE INVADED BY ORTHODOX RUSSIAN ARMIES, YOU WERE SIDED WITH THEM YOU WEAR RUSSIAN MILITARY UNIFORMS GUIDED THEM INTO FURTHER LAND KILLING ALL THOSE TURKISH PEASANTS IN THEIR THOUSANDS, YOU COMMENCED ETHNIC CLEANSING WITH HELP OF YOUR RUSSIAN ARMY FRIENDS AT THE TIME. A COIN HAS TWO FACE BE HONEST TO YOURSELF AND THE WORLD…AT THE TIME YOU THOUGHT THAT YOU GOING TO GET GREAT ARMENIA, AT EAST BORDERS OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE WITH HELP OF YOUR RUSSIAN FRIENDS, BUT IT DID NOT WORK OUT YOUR WAY….ARMENIAN PEOPLE IN OTTOMAN EMPIRE HAS THE SAME RIGHTS AS ANYONE ELSE, BUT; LEAD BY ARMENIAN CHURCH THAT THEY WILL SIDED WITH RUSSIAN ARMIES AND START KILLING THEIR NEIGHBOURS AND FRIENDS, THEY DID NOT REGARD ANY MERCY ON THEM, MORE FORTUNATE TURKS INLAND THEY START FLEEING INWARDS, AND ONE OF THEM WAS MY GREAT GRAND FATHER….NO MORE LIES….TURKISH GOVERNMENT OFFERED INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL ENQUIRY ABOUT THIS EVENTS AND DECLARE TO OPEN ALL HER ARCHIVES. ASKED SAME THING TO ARMENIA, RUSSIA AND THE OTHERS..BUT ARMENIA DECLINED THE OFFER…..
    I BELIEVE TURKS HAD REVENGE ATTACKS ON ARMENIANS, AFTER WHAT THEY HAVE DONE, THEY FORCED TO OUT WERE THEY COMMITTED THEIR CRIMES…..
    AS A TURKISH CITIZEN I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE THIS SUBJECT TO BE ENQUIRED BY INTERNATIONAL HISTORIANS AND SCIENTISTS, I AM VERY HAPPY THAT TURKISH GOVERMENT DECLARED TO OPEN ALL RELATED ARCHIVES…

  20. Dear Mr. Sassounian
    Thank you again and again for all your articles.
    Reading this last article, I remembered a comment made at a dinner in Paris by Patrick Devedjian,  member of the French Parliament and the secretary of the governing UMP party.  He said that maybe we Armenians should ”thank”  the Turkish governments for their denial of the Armenian genocide.  The longer they deny, the more it is talked about.  If  it was accepted from day one, who would have talked about it in our days…? 
    Respectfully, Shake

  21. Dear Yilmaz,  while I think you may honestly want to understand what happened, I think you need more information about the actual history of what happened during the late Ottoman Empire, and the period where the Ittihad ve Terakki took control and decided to eliminate the Armenians.  Yes, Armenians lived under Turkish rule for 900 years, and for many of those years probably lived better than most people in Europe or Russia at the time. They were not slaves or serfs,  but no – they also were not ‘equal’ citizens.  I would ask you to examine closely the characters of the Ittihad…and see how ‘Turkish’ they really were. Most of them were not true Turks at all, had only a marginal connection to Islam and no connection to anything historically Turkish or central Asian.  They were a foreign element that stole control of the empire and manipulated it for their own purposes. They were not acting on behalf of the Empire or its citizens. They created wars on many fronts and bankrupted an ancient empire. Those people are the criminals who destroyed the Ottoman Empire and 25% of its population. I suggest you blame them, because they were fully responsible, not the Armenian victims of their murderous, racist and insane actions.  Pick up a good history book, written outside of Turkey, and learn the facts. Taner Akcam comes to mind, but there are others as well. You can open your eyes and learn the truth, I’m sure. Then we can talk.  
     

  22. Reading the Turkish responses here is pathetic.  “There must have been a reason.”  Oh my goodness, tell that to the makers of international law who wrote that Genocide is a CRIME.  Period.  Or the international lawmakers who wrote the Geneva Conventions and the law to PROTECT CIVILIANS IN WARTIME.  What barbaric century are you living in?  GROW UP!

  23. And by the way, if you justify so-called “revenge attacks”  then what do you say to Israel’s response to Hamas? (Even though the two situations are not comparable – the Armenians did nothing to Turkey compared to Hamas’ activities.)   What is your Prime Minister saying???   You cannot have it both ways!!!  Imagine if 1.5 million Palestinians were murdered:  men, women and children.  Is that okay with you who post here about revenge???

  24. Hey William,

    You’re here, aren’t you. What does that say about you?

    As for John, you’re absolutely right…Every single Turk in the world is a paid agent, and we ONLY read what are handlers give us! John, anyone ever tell you that you’re a real joke!! Try to use a little semblence of logic in your posts next time.

  25. Hey Nairian,

    We’re all still waiting for you to comment on all of the deaths of countless moslems and non-moslems at the hands of the dashnaks! How about it? Care to tackle this one…if you think you can!

  26. Robert…you seem to forget, rather conveniently, that the Ottoman EMPIRE had an immense army…and  whatever the Armenians had, it wasn’t much, and really amounted to a mosquito biting an elephant…..so, get real. As if a political party for a minority group could have done anything to the Ottoman Empire….why not look inside and see what another group of non-Turks did…you should save your anger for the CUP, because they were the ones who took over the empire and destroyed it from inside, including millions of citizens whose ancestors had lived there for thousands of years….much, much longer than any Turk…that’s for sure.   

  27. Robert,  Moslem turks were annihilated not by the hands of Tashnagtsutyun but thanks for your weakling Turkey who let outside forces to overthrow your Abdul Hamid II and create WW I, Bolshevism and the plight of destroying Turkey by destroying the Armenian nation that was then Turkey’s bread and butter.  If you really want to learn; you must enquire literature pertaining to the Armenian Genocide outside of Turkey for you to be intelligent about the matter.  Tashnagtsutyun were a tiny segment within the whole of the Turkish Empire.  The only reason why Tashnagtsutyun fought, it is after Abdul Hamid II’s annihilation of the Armenians from 1895-96 who killed 300,000 civilian souls (men, women and children).  Tashnagtsutyun was formed just a little before that, because the Armenians were constantly being targetted and killed a little bit at a time and persecuted continuously; Tashnagtuyun’s existence was the outcome of the turkish peoples’ and the turkish government’s persecutions towards Armenian people, rapes and the kidnapping of Armenian children.  The Turks made yenicheris (which was an army made up in whole of Armenian little boys).  Tashnagtsutyun didn’t and couldn’t even touched the surface, comparetavily to the Turkish Empire’s malices towards the Armenian people.  Robert, just go and educate yourself; but not in Turkey.  They won’t tell you the truth but only lies.  

  28. Ottomans did not have an immense army, they were in wars for decades as the colonial powers and Russia closed in on the Sick Man of Europe (Europe?) for the kill.  At the time the massive Armenian revolts broke out in 1915, largest ever armada in history was attacking Gelibolu where eventaully there were 250K Turkish casualties in a span of less than a year. Ottomans were fighting for their existence in three major fronts, young boys and old men were called under arms, even women had picked up guns.  It was around this time that Armenians actually handed over the keys of Van to a Russian general, which was followed by the fall of ancient cities of Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum etc.  with direct support and assult of Armenian regiments.  Of course all included mass killing of Muslim populations in these places.   My grandfather’s family perished in Bitlis in 1916, and I assure you they were not marched off or mistreated but cut to pieces on the spot by Armenian “revolutionaries”.  He was “safe” at Gallipoli, fighting!   Ottomans had to divert an army (led by Ataturk) from the Mesopotamia front to counter the Armenian-Russian onslaught, which resulted in the fall of Bagdad and Mosul and changed the map of Middle East forever.  Then I suggest you google Legion D’Armenique.  What mosquito bites, what genocide? 

    I do not want any apolgies and have none to give.  But some day Armenians will need to apologize to the world for this massive con job.

    I do appreciate the threaputic value of these resolutions to so many Armenians though.  In fact, I am all for the US congress passing the resolution in the end, and have asked my congressman accordingly.  It would bring so much happiness aand joy to so many of your folk it seems, it is the humane thing to do.  After all, what can be more important for a historical “fact” than the seal of approval of a bunch of politicians!  It will also end this annual charade and the silly emotional responses of the Turkish governments and have people focus on matters at hand that really matter, like protocols.

  29. And I read:  the Armenians went to the Turks, asked to join the Turkish army and swore their allegiance to Turkey.  They were refused by the Turks, they went home ready to defend their homes.  Russia took advantage of this by taking over this city (Van?) and fighting began.  Hence Murat, your story.  The real question, after this happened was there any reason to then round up, plan to exterminate ALL Armenians, including women and children,  people who were defenseless, who were living peacefully at the time in Turkey.  The resulting deportations ended in the extermination of a people called genocide.    The answer, of course, is NO.  There is no  justification or forgiveness to what the Turks did, which was to exterminate most of the Armenians. 
    Yes, Turkey must apologize.   Yes, it was genocide.

  30. Nairian,

    You’re side-stepping the question, let alone the issue! FYI, I check my references via the US LIBRARY OF CONGRESS! You can go online and do the same. If you bother to check non-Armenian sources (which have already been shown to be mostly nothing more than fabrications and outright forgeries), you may actually learn something beyond the brainwashed ideas instilled into you during your hate indoctrination at the AYF (yes, we know well what goes on there, thanks to undercover investigations)! Until then, there’s no point in responding to your comments, since…let’s face it…they’re just wrong!

    We’re still awaiting a complete apology from Armenia in front of the UN, to the countries, as well as the surviving family members of the victims, for their complicit and heinous actions against Moslems and non-Moslems before, during and after WWI, WWII, the 1970’s-1990’s, and 1992 in Azerbaijan, and withdraw from NK! Armenia needs to come clean and admit to the century-old con job perpetrated upon the Christian nations of the world. They can do all of this in front of the full UN session. Then, and only then, many nations will begin to take Armenia seriously and beging doing more trade, etc.  It’s that easy! Ultimately, it’s going to come to this anyway, so avoid the mess of waiting and just do it ASAP (You may just gain some respect from other nations)!

  31. Is it me being cynical, or have the jewish media bosses decided to show to the mongolians who is your daddy by firing this as a warning shot ? Bob Simon’s report was pretty half-baked on purpose, if you wanna know my opinion. The guy’s a veteran Mideast correspondent, he oughta know better.
    Also, check out the contortions Wolf “AIPAC” Blitz has to go through whenever reporting on Armenian Genocide for CNN.

  32. Robert, Yelmaz and co,
    You express excellent ideas! But those ideas are so worthless.
    Robert demands that Armenia & Armenians appologize at the U.N. for all the evils they have heaped upon the poor turkish people. You are very humble in your demand. May be we have to kneel in front of  Talaat’s, Mustafa kemal’s and other turkish leaders’ tombs. May be we have to kiss the earth and shed tears for all of you! 
    We and the humanity have to thank the turks for the very “great” figures they have  provided, starting with Atilla, Alpaslan, Jengis Khan, Timur Leng, the Red sultan ( Hamid II) and Talat & co. 
    That’s what you have granted the world throughout long centuries. They have all performed excellent  job!!!   
    Each and every one of those has  created blood rivers. You may refer to the French author Victor Hugo, just to mention only one authority!
    The more you cry and shout, the more you’ll sink  in the sea of sin yoy have created! it’s much more better for you, for us & the world in large, to accept the truth. Just ask yourselves: Why there are no Armenians and other christians(almost) left in Anatolia, Van, Kars, Kharpert, Cilicia and many other locations? What happened to these  humble and tax paying communities.
    Turk authorites anounce that yes thousands of Armenians died during WWI. No thye didn’t die. THEY WERE MASSACRED!
    THEY WERE STARVED TO DEATH!
    THEY WERE RAPED!
    MANY WOMEN PREFERED TO COMMIT SUICIDE BY JUMPING INTO  RIVERS!
    MANY BOYS AND GIRLS WERE EITHER ABDUCTED OR HANDED BY THEIR MOTHERS, TO KURD & BEDIUUN FAMILIES, JUST TO SAVE THOSE LITTLE ONES. The generations of those boys are still living in Syria as Kurds & Bedouines. They are moslems, but keep the memories of their parents & great parents. There is a whole tribe of MOSLEM ARMENIANS . THEY NUMBER MORE THAN 25,000!!! I visited & saw them!
    Yes Armenians lived, side by side, with the turks, buty onl as vanquisheds and serfs.  Finally, they were either deported or massacrecd. They were expelled from their fatherland of milenias! Were all women, children and ordinary men terrorists?  You may refer to European, American and Arab authors!
    Come on boys, just tell the turkish govt. to spare the millions it is paying to greedy lobbyists! the truth, sonner or later, will shine. Unfortunaty for you and for us, your forefathers commited  genocide. We paid dearly. You paid dearly becuase you lost a  producing community.You’ll pay dearly, morally, politically & economically, if you’ll insist on your denial.  This music of denial
    is outdated, stop playing it! don’t waste your time and nerves!
    Inspite of every type of pressure you(the turkish state) could not prevent the acceptance
    of  252 by the US foreign commity. Are those 23 representatives, who voted YES, so ignorant? Don’t they know what went wrong in the Ottoman empire?
    After all, those leaders of yours, the likes of Talaat, Enver, Baha el din Shaker, who planned & executed our Genocide, are the same ones who DESTROYED THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE!

  33. The bottom line is that today’s Turkish leaders need to stop lying and help their country grow up, but more importantly, act like a reasonable adult, not an abusive, murderous parent who blames his victimized children for their battered, scarred bodies.  Simple solution to all of this…Turkey can and should confess and apologize to its former citizens, just like the Australians have done w/ the Aboriginies, the British did with the children they sent to Australia, the Dutch to the Black South Africans and the US to the native Americans. Why? because Turkey was an irresponsible, abusive and murderous parent to millions of its own citizens, who (like today’s Palestinians) tried their best to stay alive and in their own homes and villages.  If any human being commits these crimes on another, they are thrown in jail.  Turkey needs to start acting human, and stop acting like a criminal who thinks no one saw them commit murder in plain sight. Yo Robert – everyone on the planet saw it happen, and then they wrote about it and talked about it – much more so than Armenians themselves!   Even Ataturk condemned what the CUP did to the Armenians, and you wouldn’t want to offend Kemal-amou, would you?        

  34. To Karekin,

    I see that you revert to the typical dashnak Armenian tactic of defaming others (e.g. Ataturk) when you have no place else to go. That’s to be expected from a defeated, corrupt, immoral people who can only be envious and jealous, with a national low self-esteme. Ataturk was a great man, someone of which the world see’s maybe every 500-1,000 years! Tell us, what kind of leader does the Armenian nation have which they, and the rest of the world, can be proud of and justly boast about? Enlighten us about Armenian history in that the world can justly be proud of and, once again, be able to boast about? Other than a 45-year period with an Armenian king, you were all subjects of many Empires…Roman, Byzantine, Persian, Ottoman, Soviets. You’ve only been a true independent nation for a few years post-WWI and from the fall of communism to the present. So, other than playing the same old worn out record of “We’re innocent victims” and feeling sorry for yourselves, what exactly do you have to be proud about? What do/can Armenia offer to the world? They’re very poor. They’re one of the most corrupt nations on the planet. They’re one of the most religiously oppressed nations. They have a purity rate approaching 98% (due to ethnic cleansing). All of this leads to a continuing mass exodus of their population (about 6,000/mo), many of whom come to Turkey and make it their new home.  Turkey has problems, to be sure. But Armenia is wearing out its welcome by their incessent whinning to the world of “We demand this”, or “We’re entitled to that”…NO YOU”RE NOT!!! Life’s tough. Get over it and move on already!  

    To George,

    Oh, you want to play quotations huh? Okay, let’s play! You cite Victor Hugo. I’ll see your Hugo and raise you an Alexander Duma (“Armenians always were under the rule of different states of the various religions. therefore, they have turned into cunning and cheating people, who can hide their thoughts, intentions and senses.”). Let’s try A.S. Puskin (“Armenians, you are wild, murderous, villains, cowards and betrayers. You are the “Owl” that devestates our towns and villages. Despite it all, I don’t reproach you, because you are Armenians.”). What’s that? You say you want a little more? Okay, I’m more than happy to accomidate. Here’s an olddie but a goodie by Napoleon Bonaparte (“If the Earth were a single state, Istanbul would be its capitol.”). Here’s one from President Dwight D. Eisenhower (“No doubt the strongest and most reliable protector of Euopean civilization is the Turkish Army.”). Here’s one by Dr. Robert John [a historian of Armenian descent] from the Armenian Reporter (August 2, 1985)…”Historians of Armenian descent say that the frequently used Hitler Quote is nothing but a forgery!”. Let’s try the PM of Israel, Shimon Peres (“We reject attempts to create similarities between the Holocaust and the Armenian allegations.”). We now check out the quote by Farhan Haq [UN spokesman] on October 5, 2000 (“The United Nations has not approved or endorsed a report labeling the Armenian experience as genocide.”). Though there are so many more, I’ll finish today with one more quote. This one is from Avetis Aharonian, President Delegation of Armenia in the Paris Peace Conference [From Sardarapat to Serves and Lausanne_Armenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, September 1963] (“Your three Armenian Chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ring leaders of the bands which have destroyed Muslim villages and have staged massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin and Zangibasar.”).
     
    Now do you see the baselessness of the rest of your comments?

  35. With all due respect, Ataturk established the first and only real democracy in ME and Eastern Europe, and that democracy survived while the rest of civilized Europe was straining under real fascist boots from Spain to Germany to Italy, to Greece.  Not to mention that this “drunk” adopted a dozen or so Armenian orphans personally and gave them a dignified life and future.  The blood lust and ethnic hate has blinded  you obviously and you and likes of you are in no position to make any moral judgements.  It does not help the Armenian cause to say the least.

  36. Yes, Murat…a ‘democracy’ that has been run by a bunch of fascist generals?  A ‘democracy’ that has denied Turks access to their own history by changing the historical alphabet, banning certain types of clothing, forcing families to change their names to something artificial, denying the existence of Kurds, taxing non-Muslim minorities into oblivion, destroying and denying historic architecture and facts, threatening a Nobel Prize winner w/ arrest for telling the truth?   It’s just amazing that real Turks would sign onto the lie that was Ataturk (a title/name given to him by an Armenian). Yes, he did some good things, I will not deny…he created a new Turkey, but at what price?  The only reason he was able to survive is because the US funded him and his army as a bulwark against the Soviets.  The ‘democracy’ label has really been a farce until recently. Now, the new govt is making progress in that direction, and I wish them all the best. It is and will be good for everyone in Turkey, as long as the fascists and Kemalists don’t get in the way.    

  37. Karekin,

    Oh wow, is that the best that you can do? You’ve just proven how pathetic you and all Armenians are!! As I stated earlier, all you can do is defame a great man because you have NOTHING (once again, typical behavior for a defeated people). You’re a perfect textbook example of a person with low self-esteme and a bankrupt moral character! You can’t respond to anything in a mature and professional manner, so you revert to the same old tired Armenian tactic of defamation! Accordingly, you are not worthy of any further response and/or communication (you are simply too far beneath the vast majority of people! There’s a good old saying which typifies people just like you…”The barking dog will never have any effect on the moving caravan”. Good day to you. 

  38. You, Robert, obviously, have been trained to worship Ataturk, a drunken, fake Turk, fake Muslim….as if he’s a god of some sort.  What a sales job he did on you and the rest of Turkey!  Thankfully, most Armenians live outside of Turkey now and have no obligation to worship the fake god, Ataturk.  Well, get real and see thru the facade.  We don’t worship dictators, especially nutcases who demand that their photos appear all over the country.  All you seem to enjoy doing is blaming the victims of Turkish atrocity for their own demise.  You and the rest of the fake Turks needed and still need a scapegoat to blame for the end of your empire, but guess what? That end had nothing to do with Armenians…but had alot to do w/ criminalswho took over the empire, duped the sultan, bankrupted the Ottoman treasury, murdered 20% of the population and stole their land, businesses and homes.  If you see fit to defend them, then you are equally criminal, and I feel sorry for you. The whole world has seen what Turkey has done, not only to Armenians, but to Kurds, Alevis and lots of others who have lived there long before Turks ever arrived there.  Face it…Turks created nothing on their own…they even used the Arabic alphabet because they had no writing of their own, and then used the minorities to do all their work for them. Not even the sultan’s children were Turkish!  They were products of their concubines, who weren’t Turks at all. It’s all been a big farce Robert, a big lie…Turkey is built on a mountain of lies and the remains of those they used along the way, and is a poor excuse for a country.    

  39. Look what happened to all the nations in the area and in the world who did not have an Ataturk, then and even now.  Look at a mirror once in a while. 

  40. Yes, Murat….of course,  there have been plenty of Ataturk-types on the stage of world history: Stalin, Hitler, Franco, Mussolini are just a few. All have been thrown into the trashbin of history as brutal, fascist dictators w/ murderous ultranationalist agendas.  All of those countries were abused by a crazy, self-absorbed leader and only blossomed after he and his image were gone for good.  Turks have been brainwashed into believing that Ataturk – the well known non-Turk who had nothing to do w/ central Asia and very little to do w/ Islam – was their saviour.  What a joke!  I’ll admit that today Turkey is improving, but not because of Ataturk, but because people there are finally realizing how damaging his legacy has been in the modern world. Turkey will improve even more, as long as it can throw off the constrictions of Ataturk and the murderous army that worships him. They are both from another era and have no useful place anymore, especially an army that brutalizes its own fellow citizens w/ fear and terror.  There is nothing less democratic than that, no matter what you say or think.  

  41. TO KAREKIN:
    MR. KAREKIN, IS IT YOUR FULL TIME OR PART JOB, WRITING COMMENTS ABOUT ARMENIAN AND TURKISH CONFLICT, I THINK IT IS, I CAN’T CATCH UP WITH YOUR SPEED, DO YOU GET PAID FOR THIS? I MEAN LOOK AT YOU AT THE MIRROR, AND GET LIFE!..
     
    YOU ARE FULL OF HATRED, HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOUR-SELF DAY IN DAY OUT, IT MUST BE VERY DIFFICULT BEING YOU…LOOK AMERICAN POLITICIANS THEY VOTED FOR THE FAVOUR OF GENOCIDE . I HOPE THAT KEEPS YOU HAPPY .I DON’T HATE ANY ARMENIAN, WE MOVED ON……BUT WE KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED AT EAST OF TURKEY BETWEEN 1914-15, SO DO YOU…..CHEER UP YOU WON…BUT NOT IN YOUR CONSCIOUS…YOUR BELOVED ARMENIAN REPUBLIC NOT INTERESTED OF OPENING THEIR ARCHIVES FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT…
     
     

  42. I agreed with what you said so much that I felt it had to be repeated:
    You, Robert, obviously, have been trained to worship Ataturk, a drunken, fake Turk, fake Muslim….as if he’s a god of some sort.  What a sales job he did on you and the rest of Turkey!  Thankfully, most Armenians live outside of Turkey now and have no obligation to worship the fake god, Ataturk.  Well, get real and see thru the facade.  We don’t worship dictators, especially nutcases who demand that their photos appear all over the country.  All you seem to enjoy doing is blaming the victims of Turkish atrocity for their own demise.  You and the rest of the fake Turks needed and still need a scapegoat to blame for the end of your empire, but guess what? That end had nothing to do with Armenians…but had alot to do w/ criminalswho took over the empire, duped the sultan, bankrupted the Ottoman treasury, murdered 20% of the population and stole their land, businesses and homes.  If you see fit to defend them, then you are equally criminal, and I feel sorry for you. The whole world has seen what Turkey has done, not only to Armenians, but to Kurds, Alevis and lots of others who have lived there long before Turks ever arrived there.  Face it…Turks created nothing on their own…they even used the Arabic alphabet because they had no writing of their own, and then used the minorities to do all their work for them. Not even the sultan’s children were Turkish!  They were products of their concubines, who weren’t Turks at all. It’s all been a big farce Robert, a big lie…Turkey is built on a mountain of lies and the remains of those they used along the way, and is a poor excuse for a country. 

  43. To Armani of Georgia: We Armenians don’t end up in the library to do research about the Genocide. Instead we heard the testimony of the eye witnesses who were our grandparents. They told us about the crimes against God of the decapitations by Turkish soldiers of their siblings and parents. The theft of their properties etc…

    We don’t need to go to the library. Turks, however, urgently need to do so.

  44. Lahmajoun: “Is it me being cynical, or have the jewish media bosses decided to show to the mongolians who is your daddy by firing this as a warning shot ? Bob Simon’s report was pretty half-baked on purpose, if you wanna know my opinion. The guy’s a veteran Mideast correspondent, he oughta know better.
    Also, check out the contortions Wolf “AIPAC” Blitz has to go through whenever reporting on Armenian Genocide for CNN.”
    _______________________________________________
    You hit the hammer right on the nail Lahmajoun.  Remember also, the guy who started “60 Minutes”, the proxy for the ADL and the Turkish Lobby, passed away recently.

    America’s First Amendment rights have been hijacked by a foriegn third world country who consistently commits state sponsored terrorism against its own population.

    Remember, this is a country that denied that Kurds lived in the eastern part of Turkey. Remember also, that we Americans invaded Iraq in 1991 to save the Kurds from that evil dictator Sadam. The question is why didn’t we bomb the living daylights out of Turkey for their treatment of the Kurds?

  45. No one pays me for any of this…and, none of these writings are my ‘opinions’. This is historic fact I am citing here, not hearsay, not gibberish.  For those who are wondering, I have a graduate level background in middle eastern history which apparently, very few of you seem to have. While my family is from Turkey, I am not biased or influenced by political loyalties or nationalism, and have no need to defend anyone or anything, but the facts are the facts. Let’s all focus on those and be honest about them. I stand by my words, from start to finish, because it is all fact, not fiction.

  46. To Karekin, who says we are biased and uneducated? Our families were from what is now Turkey as well. Our families were living in what is now called Turkey for thousands of years before your ancestors from Ghengis Khan came and spread.

    Historically, your family was from western China and the Uighur tribes that migrated onto Armenian lands.

  47. A degree in middle eastern studies is useless on these topics. Armenians are Europeans not Arabs. Turks are Asians and not Europeans. What you need is a degree in Asian or European studies to say you are an authority on the subject and discuss why Turks are so dispised in Romania, Hungry, Germany, Bulgaria etc…

  48. If you knew anything about my ancestors, you’d know that they were in Anatolia long before any Turks or Mongols arrived there, by thousands of years.  When you assume, you are attempting to make an ass of both you and me. Please don’t do that. And for the record, we Armenians are not, in the least, ‘Europeans’. Armenia is and always has technically been in Asia… not Europe, and no map shows it otherwise.

  49. Armenians are not Asians. The Armenian language is European. Turks are Asians and their language is spoken in China by the Uighur tribes. Turks are the decendants of Ghengis Khan. Furthermore, Armenians are not middle eastern or Arabs. These are historical facts that anyone with a library card can figure out.

  50. Sorry…but the insistence on some kind of ‘European’ heritage for Armenians, who are indigenous to Anatolia and the fertile crescent, is really based on self-hated, which in and of itself comes from a longing to be what we are not….but no, Armenians are not and have never been Europeans. Yes, the Armenian language is in fact Indo-European, and more importantly, probably an even older proto-Indo-European, but that does not mean it is literally, from Europe – it is more truly Indian, than European.  The Armenian religious pantheon was closely related to those of  Persia for hundreds and hundreds of years, and much of the Armenian language has deep relationships with early Persian, with hundreds of loan words.  I find it odd that Armenians feel the need to hitch their horse to something European, when for much of written history, Armenians were always far ahead of anything that ever happened in Europe. If anything, Europe owes alot to Armenians, not the other way around. Armenians have  culture that is much older and much more distinguished than anything in Europe, so they have no need to grovel to anything European, so please don’t forget that.

  51. Hello Every body,
                Much is being said about the Arm. Genocide. Some distant “friends”, are doing their utmost, in order to defend the Turkish cause. That’s their right. Nothing will make them to budge! I’ll try to make some points, which may illuminate these friends’ but of course without moving them from positions.
    I had mentioned just one authority, V. Hugo, who had          some exact but unkind and  unpleasant definition of the Ottoman Turks. Mr. Robert has mentioned several sources, who have either praised the Turks or have tried to discredit us (Armenians). I would like to mention just a few men who may displease our “friend”. He may refer to he following sources:
    Anatol France a French very prominent thinker
    Arnold Toynbee the world known historian
    G. B. Shaw the British writer and playwright of Irish decent.
    Winston Churchill ( no need to identify him)
    Bertrand Russell the great philosopher
    Franz Werfel, the Austrian author of “The Forty days of Musa Dagh”
    The prince of Mecca: Sherif Hussein
    J. Lepsius the great missionary from Germany in the Ottoman empire.
    USA ambassador to Istanbul, Henry Morgenthau
    Armin Wagner of Germany. He was an officer commissioned to serve in the Ottoman army.
    Fayez Ghossen of Syria
    Dr. George Jabbour a prom. Lecturer and writer in Syria.
    Fawzi Kawukji of Syria: He was a political and revolutionary figure 1014-1932
    Dr. Iskandar Louka a prominent literary figure in Syria
    Dr. Hafez Jamali a former president of Arab writers’ union, lecturer, ambassador & minister
    Sheikh Hamidi Jarba: chieftain Of Al-Jarba tribe in Syria
    Dr. S. Zaher el Din  Lebanese historian & lecturer
    Samir Arbash Journalist & author
    Orhan Pamuk
    Taner Akcham
    Fathia kochak
    Elif Shafak
    Plus: The more than 30,000 Turk men & women  who apologized to the Armenians because of the Genocide!
    Many of the above mentioned figures are very good Moslems. The last few are Turks!
    You have also mentioned that Napoleon Bonaparte had dreamed of having Istanbul as his capital. No wonder dear, Emperor Constantine’s hand work served as the capital of the Byzantine empire for just one thousand years. Then it served as the capital of the Ottoman empire, for more than 500 yrs. No wonder. The city has an excellent strategic position. There remains just one small question: why then did the founder of modern Turkey, Ataturk, move the capital far away from Istanbul,  to landlocked Ankara?
    No one of us has anything against the city. Just the contrary, many Armenian writers have praised that city in their writings. Only the people in charge of the Ottoman empire, planned the Armenian Genocide there. The city itself is guiltless!
    It is said, that Armenia has always been a small power. For long centuries it has been subjected to other powers. And that it has given no important figures .Very  correct in some respects. Yes, our geographic position has been our curse. But Armenia has had four ruling main dynasties: Ardashsian (200 years), Arshagouni( 375 yrs.) Pakradit (160 yrs) and Roupinian (300yrs). The last dynasty ruled in Cilicia. The appearance of the Seljuk, then Mongol and Ottoman Turks became a curse for the whole of the Middle East. Both Moslems and Christians suffered  very heavily under these new comers! Arabs, Persians, Armenians, Maronites, Assyrians, Greeks and the Balkan peoples, all paid very dearly to these Turkish tribes !
    It is mentioned that the Armenians massacred moslems in Zankezour. That said, you have to have in mind the Armenians massacred by your Azeri cousins in Shushi &  Baku in early 1920s and then in Sumgait & Baku in late 1980s. this has nothing to do with the massacres of S. Hamid, 1894-96, then massacres of Adana 1920 and Genocide 1915-23!!! The total is almost two millions.
    Do you know, that above one million Moslems were massacred in Baghdad, the capital of the Abbasid kings, by the Turk-Seljuk  ruler Houlagou! How many other Arab and Persian Moslems have paid with their lives, to the Turks!
    About Armenian great figures, let us mention only oneking: Tigrades the II, who established the only Armenian empire extending from the Caspian sea to Palestine, toward the end of the First BC entury. His 1st capital was Dikranagert (Diyarbekir) and the second: Antioch! When he sat on his imperial carriage, he used to have six kings running in front of him and other six royals running behind his carriage!
    We had our Alphabet invented in AD 406. Started having literature by the beginning of the 5th cent. AD. The Turks have to get their alphabet  within the next centuries. But no need for that, as long as they can borrow Arabic or Latin alphabets!
    Nareg a very prominent prayer book was written by Krikor of Nareg in 1001 AD. And the monastery where he lived and wrote was situated to the south of lake Van. This book  is only second the the Holly Bible! The monst. Is pulverized, along with hundreds of others, during the democratic reign of turkey in the 20th cent.
    Pakratid kings built Ani, which was known as the city of 1001 churches!
    Sayat Nova wrote in Armenian, Georgian and Turkish! His songs are sung by three peoples: Armenian, Georgian and Azeri. His songs are only 250 yrs. Old, but still very very popular!
    Comitas had his choir in Constantinople. It numbered only 300 members. That choir was the pride of the Ottoman capital, just before the Genocide.
    Then ever heard about Krikor Zohrab? The most prominent deputy of the Ot. Parliament, the exceptional lawyer and lecturer in the law school of  Istanbul. Many of his students became political figures in the Middle East. In Lebanon, three prime minsters hailing only from the Solh family, were his former students.
    Then have you ever heard about Aram Kahchadourian, the very prominent composer?
    Anastas Mikoyan the great political figure in the Soviet Union. During the final phase of his career, he became the president of the Union!
    Ardem Migoyan, his brother, has invented the MIG fighter planes (The pride of the Soviet Union).
    Victor Hampartsoumian the world famous Astronomer, was a member of many scientific academies in different countries.
    Alikhanian brothers the most prominent mathematicians!
    Willaim Saroyan… ever heard about him? His father had migrated to the USA from Bitlis!
    Yes, Armenia has not given the likes of your many leaders, sultans etc. But still, has contributed to the world civilization in a better way!
     
    You, Turks, take pride in Ataturk, Mustafa Kemal Pasha. That’s your right. After all, he has founded the modern day Turkey. It is considered a true(actually the only one) example of democracy in the area. Sorry: It has the semblance of democracy. Within two decades you had four military coups. The army has always stood, with its thick oak club firmly clutched, behind your presidents and governments. A democratic country does never hatch an organization the like of Ergenekon!
    Then what sort of a democracy is Turkey, that’s afraid of the Greek orthodox seminary?
    In a true democracy minorities are never considered  second or even fourth class citizens.
    The best and most curios thing about Ataturk, is the bragging that he is such a great figure, the like of whom can be seen only once per 500 years. What a joke? Dear, there can be mentioned dozens of leaders who have assumed power within the last fifty-sixty years only. Can you read me?
    Winston Churchill  who lead G. Britain to final victory against the Nazi Germany.
    Charles De Gaul the liberator of France!
    Jamal abdel Nasser of Egypt, who granted pride not only to the Egyptians but to the whole of the Arab world!
    Nelson Mandella from behind his prison cell bars, lead his nation against the much hated apartheid regime! And won!
    Jomo Kenyata of Kenya: He lead the struggle of his people toward independence!
    Ho Chi Min of Vietnam, lead his nation to victory against the very superior US army of 500 thousand, armed with the state of art planes, and other weapons. By the way, I am not a fan of his.
    What about John F. Kennedy of the USA?
    Pope John the II, was much more a prominent leader than many world famous political figures.
    Ayatollah Khomeini ( I’m against any sort of theocracy) can never be denied as one of the greatest and most shrewd leaders in the area.
    Martin Luther King: Who did away with racial segregation in the USA. He paid with his life, but his achievement was tremendpus.
    Mao Tse Tung of China, do you think that he is inferior to Kemal pasha (Ataturk).
    In order to close this very long comment, please let me mention one more name. A very minute (physically) man lead the sub continent of India to independence. Like Ataturk, he was fond of a whitedrink. Ghandi was addicted to his goat milk while Ataturk was addicted to Arak (Raki)! See?
    He(Ghandi) had another “short coming” . He didn’t assume his leadership by burning a cosmopolitan city. Ataturk did such a “minor” thing. He had to incinerate Izmir (Smyrna) and drown its mainly Greek & Armenian inhabitant in the Med. sea. He did, really, a very nice job in that respect!
    Dear friends,
    Pls. take notice, that Ataturk’s greatness is in risk nowadays. Mrs. Erdogan is chiseling at his greatness and revolutionary  innovations,  with her silk headscarf!!!
    I have to agree with you, that it’s time for a very long    break!!! Goodnight every body!!!
               
    Comment

  52. Hye, historical data is just another PLOY of the Turk to delay, demand, and to also act as if history  has not recorded the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation.  Of course, the Turks’ Genocide is not and cannot be recorded in the Turkish history books for their students to know the truths of their forbears! 
    Turks claim Muslims are unable to puruse any Genocides.  Ask the Greeks, the
    Assyrians and most of the nations of Europe… and Armenians who bore the
    venom of the Turks – especially as Turks were facing all  their losses during WWI and pursued the Turkish Genocide of the Armenians under the cover of WWI…
    Turks excel at PLOYS, denials, and more – all delaying tactics – as the world watches and wonders:  what’s next??  And above all, lies, the Turks’ leaderships lie to their own Turkish citizens – these leaders even lie to themselves – and even
    believe their own lies and all their PLOYS!
    Manooshag

      

     

  53. Comment TO MR. APELIANI SEE THAT YOU VERY KEEN ON TWISTED HISTORY, I SEE THAT YOU ARE RELAYING ON SOME SO CALLED TURKISH WRITERS (WHICH THEY ARE COLLABORATORS OF OUR ENEMIES) THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ALI KEMAL, DAMAT FERIT PASHA OR CERKES ETHEM, EVERY COUNTRY HAS THEIR BACK STABBERS, HAPPENS TO BE WE HAVE MORE THAN OTHER COUNTRIES, YOU MUST BE OVER THE MOON BECAUSE TURKISH PM IS YOUR MAN ( EITHER GREEK ORIGIN OR ARMENIAN) ALSO PRO-ISLAMIST CULT WORKS ON YOUR FAVOUR NOW DAYS, TELL YOUR GREEK FRIENDS ERDOGAN ABOUT TO GIVE CYPRUS BACK TO THEM IN SILVER PLATE IF HE CAN MANAGE. MR APELIAN, YOU KNOW PERFECTLY THAT OTTOMAN ARMENIANS WAS A OTTOMAN CITIZENS I AM NOT GOING WRITE YOU THAT, THEY WERE MP’S, POLITICIANS, OFFICERS, BUSINESS PEOPLE UNTIL THE DAY EASTERN AND S/EASTERN ARMENIANS COLLABORATED WITH OUR ENEMIES AT THE TIME RUSSIANS, FRENCH, GREEKS AND ENGLISH. ARMENIANS,  STABBED THEY ARE OWN PEOPLE BEHIND. I THINK YOU KNOW THAT. DON’T YOU EVER FEEL BAD ABOUT THAT, I SPOUSE YOU ARE NOT…I THINK ALL YOU UP SET ABOUT IS YOU COULDN’T GRAB  THE EAST OF OTTOMAN LAND AS A ARMENIA…     HERE ARE SOME HISTORICAL FACTS BY NORMAN STONE YOU CHECK FROM INTERNET..  

     
     
     
    1878: British Ambassador Henry Layard says Russia is teaming up with Ottoman Armenians
    “I am informed, on good authority, that Russia is already commencing her usual intrigues among the Armenians of Asiatic Turkey. Russian agents are being sent into the provinces inhabited by them with the object of stirring up discontent against the rule and authority of the Porte. A Russian party is being formed in the capital amongst the Armenians, which already includes some leading and influential members of that community.”

    Sir Henry Layard, British Ambassador, in a July 14, 1878 message to British Foreign Secretary Lord Salisbury (British Foreign Office 424/72, pages 160-161, No 211)
     
     
     
    Prof. Norman Stone: “Armenian story has another side”
    Commentary appeared in Chicago Tribune

    ***
    Armenian story has another side
    By Norman Stone, a historian and the author of “World War I: A Short History”

    October 16, 2007

    All the world knows what the end of an empire looks like: hundreds of thousands of people fleeing down dusty paths, taking what was left of their possessions; crammed refugee trains puffing their way across arid plains; and many, many people dying. For the Ottoman Empire that process began in the Balkans, the Crimea and the Caucasus as Russia and her satellites expanded. Seven million people — we would now call them Turks — had to settle in Anatolia, the territory of modern Turkey.

    In 1914, when World War I began in earnest, Armenians living in what is now Turkey attempted to set up a national state. Armenians revolted against the Ottoman government, began what we would now call “ethnic cleansing” of the local Turks. Their effort failed and caused the government to deport most Armenians from the area of the revolt for security reasons. Their sufferings en route are well-known.

    Today, Armenian interests in America and abroad are well-organized. What keeps them united is the collective memory of their historic grievance. What happened was not in any way their fault, they believe. If the drive to carve out an ethnically pure Armenian state was a failure, they reason, it was only because the Turks exterminated them.

    For years, Armenians have urged the U.S. Congress to recognize their fate as genocide. Many U.S. leaders — including former secretaries of state and defense and current high-ranking Bush administration officials — have urged Congress either not to consider or to vote down the current genocide resolution primarily for strategic purposes: Turkey is a critical ally to the U.S. in both Iraq and Afghanistan and adoption of such a resolution would anger and offend the Turkish population and jeopardize U.S.-Turkish relations.

    Given this strong opposition, why would Congress, upon the advice of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, make itself arbiter of this controversy? What makes the Armenians’ dreadful fate so much worse than the dreadful fates that come with every end of empire? It is here that historians must come in.

    First, allegedly critical evidence of the crime consists of forgeries. The British were in occupation of Istanbul for four years after the war and examined all of the files of the Ottoman government. They found nothing, and therefore could not try the 100-odd supposed Turkish war criminals that they were holding. Then, documents turned up, allegedly telegrams from the interior ministry to the effect that all Armenians should be wiped out. The signatures turned out to be wrong, there were no back-up copies in the archives and the dating system was misunderstood.

    There are many other arguments against a supposed genocide of the Armenians. Their leader was offered a post in the Turkish Cabinet in 1914, and turned it down. When the deportations were under way, the populations of the big cities were exempted — Istanbul, Izmir, Aleppo, where there were huge concentrations of Armenians. There were indeed well-documented and horrible massacres of the deportee columns, and the Turks themselves tried more than 1,300 men for these crimes in 1916, convicted many and executed several. None of this squares with genocide, as we classically understand it. Finally, it is just not true that historians as a whole support the genocide thesis. The people who know the background and the language (Ottoman Turkish is terribly difficult) are divided, and those who do not accept the genocide thesis are weightier. The Armenian lobby contends that these independent and highly esteemed historians are simply “Ottomanists” — a ridiculously arrogant dismissal.

    Unfortunately, the issue has never reached a properly constituted court. If the Armenians were convinced of their own case, they would have taken it to one. Instead, they lobby bewildered or bored parliamentary assemblies to “recognize the genocide.”

    Congress should not take a position, one way or the other, on this affair. Let historians decide. The Turkish government has been saying this for years. It is the Armenians who refuse to take part in a joint historical review, even when organized by impeccably neutral academics. This review is the logical and most sensible path forward. Passage of the resolution by the full House of Representatives would constitute an act of legislative vengeance and would shame well-meaning scholars who want to explore this history from any vantage point other than the one foisted upon the world by ultranationalist Armenians.

  54. Kaya:  I did read this article in the Chicago Tribune and I have to tell you I was horrified because it looked like classic genocide denial to me.  However, I was also surprised no Armenians wrote an article in rebuttal to the Tribune.  The fact that the Turks pay so much to push their old and worn propaganda on the world shows that the Armenians have a right to rebut, in fact A DUTY, to answer the propaganda with the truth.  The whole issue is one of free speech, free speech to talk about the Armenian genocide in Turkey before Turkey can enter the EU.  
    Now that the original perpetrators are dead, Turkey should be able to face its past.   The new generation should be able to deal with and talk about the past and toss the old and worn propaganda out. 
    Here Kaya, you have given the whole Armenian world and more readers a chance to read what I saw in the Tribune.  It will not be overlooked or ignored.  I hope they will rebut you; but isn’t that what they did on 60 minutes.  Some of my relatives too could be among the bones.  These are bones of human beings with souls and intelligence, not the bones of dogs, sheep or cows.  Human rights has a long way to go in parts of the world which still do not view women and children as having human rights.  Turkey is still ranked among the lowest countries in giving human rights to women and children.   Ataturk’s revolution has done little to bring human rights to Turkey, in fact, Erdogan looks reactionary.   Until women get educated and work, are not the victims of honor killings, are not abused by their husbands, are considered equals, until the whole muslim world revolutionizes, women and children will not be looked upon as humans, but just as slaves and possessions, equal to a camel, but not a man.

  55. Comment TO ANONYMOUS
    CBS DID VERY GOOD  WORK FOR THE ARMENIANS IN THAT SHOW WITH NOT GIVING EQUAL AIR TIME TO BOTH SIDES, NO NEED TO DENY. IF ANY ONE OF THE HISTORIANS DOES NOT AGREED WITH ARMENIAN MATTER, THAN, THEY MUST BE PAID BY TURKEY, HOW RIDICULES IS THAT…YES, THERE IS ONE GENOCIDE IN RECENT HISTORY AND THAT IS MADE BY NAZI GERMANY AGAINST JEWISH PEOPLE.
    DO YOU REALY THINK THAT PEOPLE OF TURKEY WORRIES ABOUT JOINING TO EU, A PART FROM POLITICIANS NOBODY CARES…IT IS ALL READY BEEN PROVEN EU IS A CHRISTIAN CLUB, WE SHOULD NOT BE IN, WE SHOULD BE TOTALY INDEPENDENT…  ONLY PEOPLE DIDN’T STABBED US BEHIND IS GEORGIANS AND JEWISH PEOPLE.   WHILE OTTOMANS AT FRONT LINES AT WAR WITH RUSSAINS, FRENCH, BRITISH, GREEKS; OTTOMAN ARMENIANS JOING TO RUSSAINS AND FRENCH THANKS TO YOUR BELOWED TASHNAKS, TUNSGUITS AND ORTHODOX CHURCH, THEY ARE THE CAUSE OF DEATH OF ARMENIANS AND TURKS, YOU ALL KNOW IT BUT NEVER ADMITING IT..
    PLEASE DO NOT  ANGRY WITH VIEWS ON THIS MATTER…PEACE BE WITH YOU..

  56. Robert, Murat, Yilmaz and Co,

    Please forgive me for what I have to say but I have it get it out…

     you all are IDIOTS.. PURE, GENUINE IDIOTS….

    Thank you
    Gayane

  57. I guess Armenian children deserved to be deported to the desert, without food or water, as well because of a so-called civil war. I guess Armenian women deserved to be raped or put in harems (to prevent a so-called civil war).

    Why don’t Turks admit that their grandparents were rapists, murders, homsexuals who had a penchant for young boys?

  58. Kaya — so you think that if Israel decided to eliminate 1.5 million Palestinian men, women and children, it would only the Palestinians who were guilty, then.   That is the idiotic argument you are making here.  And the Armenians never did to Turkey the level that  Palestinian resistance has done to Israel.

  59. Armenians were the first caucaisians in the world. The 5,500 year old shoe proves it. Armenians were the first Europeans in the world. The mumafied brain found in a cave will prove that as well when there is dna testing done. Armenians invented beer and wine.

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