Khanasor, Lisbon Five Commemorated in Washington

The Armenian community of Greater Washington has a long-standing tradition of hosting their annual Khanasor Picnic in honor of the brave souls who fought for the liberty of our people during the Khanasor Expedition in July 1897. This local tradition celebrates the virtues of courage, bravery, and justice embodied by the heroic defenders of the Armenian struggle throughout history. Armenians of the Washington, D.C. community, both young and old, come together each year to bond over delicious food and heghapokhagan songs in an outdoor and lively setting.

The ARF “Sebouh” Gomideh of Greater Washington hosted a successful Khanasor Picnic this year, on Sun., July 26, while also commemorating the 32nd anniversary of the Lisbon Five.
The ARF “Sebouh” Gomideh of Greater Washington hosted a successful Khanasor Picnic this year, on Sun., July 26, while also commemorating the 32nd anniversary of the Lisbon Five.

The ARF “Sebouh” Gomideh of Greater Washington hosted a successful Khanasor Picnic this year, on Sun., July 26, while also commemorating the 32nd anniversary of the Lisbon Five. Members of the Washington Armenian Youth Federation (AYF) Senior “Ani” Chapter, along with this year’s Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) Leo Sarkissian interns, spent a delightful afternoon with the Greater Washington community.

In his opening remarks, the chairman of the Washington ARF Gomideh, Aram Sarafian, thanked the Armenian youth and members of the community for their continued support and participation in local ARF events. Sarafian then introduced ARF Eastern Region Central Committee member Hovsep Avakian, who stressed the importance for today’s youth not only to commemorate the events of Khanasor and the Lisbon Five, but to proudly carry on the legacy of Tatul Krpeyan and Simon Yahneyan. Avakian added that the great sacrifice of our martyrs in Khansaor, Lisbon, and Karabagh paved new paths for Armenian liberty, freedom, and justice. He concluded by honoring all Armenian mothers who have given birth to and raised great martyrs like Krpeyan and the Lisbon Five.

This year’s Khanasor Picnic was especially memorable because of the presence of Aspram Krpeyan, the daughter of a national hero of Armenia, Tatul Krpeyan. In her remarks, Aspram thanked the ARF “Sebouh” Gomideh for giving her the opportunity to address the Washington community on this occasion. She told the story of her father as being one of the first ARF members in Karabagh to participate in the battles for liberation. She urged Diasporan Armenians to work closely with the motherland to achieve our pan-Armenian goals and to build a strong, prosperous homeland.

Meghry Avakian

Meghry Avakian

Meghry Avakian is an active member of the Washington, D.C. Armenian Youth Federation (AYF) Senior "Ani" Chapter and of the local Hamazkayin executive. She earned her bachelor’s degree in political science and minored in philosophy. Avakian’s areas of interest include international relations, human rights, international development, political philosophy, and ethics.
Meghry Avakian

Latest posts by Meghry Avakian (see all)

44 Comments

  1. Speaking as an Armenian, is celebrating the Lisbon 5 (a terrorist act) really something we should be doing? Some of the other targets in the 80’s I can understand, but this just resulted in two innocent people dead and a blown up embassy…

    • An act of terrorism was what the genocidal Turkish government did to 1,500,000 defenseless Armenian women and children in cold-blood. These young Armenian patriots were avenging the murder of the entire Armenian population of occupied Western Armenia from the agents of the genocidal Turkish government who went around denying their murder and their existence as if they did not mean a thing to them.

      It is unfortunate these young men did not get to take out their intended targets because it was them who deserved to be under the rubble of that embassy compound and not these dedicated patriots. They were freedom fighters and their act was NOT an act of terrorism.

  2. Sorry but I see no justification for what the Lisbon 5 did. How is this “freedom fighting”? Their goal was to make a political statement through assassination. This was not justice for Armenian genocide. They targeted someone who was not guilty of the genocide, since he was not even born then.

    The Lisbon 5 killed the wife of the diplomat, a Portuguese guard and wounded another Portuguese guard when they initially tried to enter the building. And if the son of the diplomat had not escaped, he would have been killed by the explosion too. How is their deaths even justified? What did the Portuguese guards to us that justified violence against them?

    I lost family in the genocide and this was not the right way to deal with it. Not through violence and killing.

    • Random American,
      Once again you prove you are clueless about the Armenian community, its pains, its needs, its past, its struggles, and its pursuit of justice. And once again you try to spread misinformation to conveniently suit your twisted version of events.

      “Their goal was to make a political statement through assassination”

      -No it was not. Their goal was to bring worldwide recognition of a crime against a nation in exile whose people were subject to mass annihilation and Genocide by a criminal entity still operating under the moniker of the “Turkish government”. In addition, the demand for recognition of the Armenian Genocide is not a “political statement”, it is the pursuit of justice demanded by every Armenian in the world. Your ideas sound very “Turkish”.

      “They targeted someone who was not guilty of the genocide, since he was not even born then.”

      -Again incorrect. The goal was to take control of the Turkish embassy to bring worldwide attention to the crimes of Genocide by Turkey. And an official of a Genocide-denying criminal terrorist government which committed a Holocaust against an ancient people, destroyed their ancient homeland, and is currently occupying their lands is not “an innocent bystander”. Any representative of the Genocide-perpetrating and denying Turkish government (see note) who is parroting Genocide denial is guilty of the crime of Genocide by proxy and by default.

      “The Lisbon 5 killed the wife of the diplomat, a Portuguese guard and wounded another Portuguese guard when they initially tried to enter the building.”

      -Wrong. In your twisted version of events, we need to completely ignore any possibility that a plan could ever go wrong. And with this logic you try to create charges based on the fictitious figments of your imagination.

      The Lisbon-5 did not plan to commit random acts of violence against innocent people like you are trying to suggest. They planned to occupy the Turkish embassy in order to bring attention to the crime of the Armenian Genocide which until today has not seen justice for the Armenian people. The deaths that occurred were the result of a plan which went wrong, and nothing more.

      And you have no right to conjure up false allegations against 5 heroes which gave their lives to bring attention to the plight and struggle of a nation in exile.

      “I lost family in the genocide and this was not the right way to deal with it”

      -This is not how “we are dealing with it”, again in your twisted world, you make these three decades long incidents sound like this is currently a weekly event, and one of it just took place yesterday. We lost five brave young men who wanted to do their part in bringing recognition for the Genocide, and the commemoration is for their bravery and memory. And since you “lost family in the genocide”, you should be especially ashamed of the drivel you posted.

      _____________
      Note: And don’t try to argue that “the current Turkish government was not the one that committed Genocide”. The current Turkish government definitely is the same government which is responsible for Genocide and is the successor to the government under which Genocide occurred and by the same Young Turk movement and ideology that actually perpetrated the crime which founded the current nation of Turkey.

    • “Once again you prove you are clueless about the Armenian community, its pains, its needs, its past, its struggles, and its pursuit of justice. And once again you try to spread misinformation to conveniently suit your twisted version of events.”

      Yes I do understand the pain. That does not justify killing people.

    • “No it was not. Their goal was to bring worldwide recognition of a crime against a nation in exile whose people were subject to mass annihilation and Genocide by a criminal entity still operating under the moniker of the “Turkish government”. In addition, the demand for recognition of the Armenian Genocide is not a “political statement”, it is the pursuit of justice demanded by every Armenian in the world. Your ideas sound very “Turkish””

      My ideas are not “Turkish”. And I am not the only Armenian who sees the Lisbon 5 and other acts as the wrong way to go about justice.

      “-Wrong. In your twisted version of events, we need to completely ignore any possibility that a plan could ever go wrong. And with this logic you try to create charges based on the fictitious figments of your imagination.”

      They could have let go of the people they were holding before killing themselves. I still do not see how the killing of the wife and child (who managed to escape) as justice.

      Please explain how killing them is justice.

    • ““The Lisbon 5 killed the wife of the diplomat, a Portuguese guard and wounded another Portuguese guard when they initially tried to enter the building.”

      -Wrong. In your twisted version of events, we need to completely ignore any possibility that a plan could ever go wrong. And with this logic you try to create charges based on the fictitious figments of your imagination.”

      They shot a Portuguese guard when they tried to enter the compound. Did they seriously think they were getting in without resistance? If they cared about collateral damage, they should have turned around and left instead of causing unnecessary death.


      “I lost family in the genocide and this was not the right way to deal with it”

      -This is not how “we are dealing with it”, again in your twisted world, you make these three decades long incidents sound like this is currently a weekly event, and one of it just took place yesterday.”

      I said “was” not “are”.

      And you’re the one twisting my words. I’m not absolving the current Turkish government of anything.

      If they had no intention of killing anyone, but just to draw attention, they should have let the hostages go before killing themselves. Based on their actions it looks like they were willing to kill.

      Even if the plan did go wrong as you say, they are still responsible for the deaths since they created the situation.

    • {Please explain how killing them [innocent people] is justice.}

      Please explain how dropping atomic bombs on the innocent civilian population of two Japanese cities was justice in retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

      P.S. Please also explain if you need more time to answer a repeatedly asked question in other threads as to why you profusely criticized Russia’s arms sale to AzerBEYjan, but chose not to utter one word in criticism of the US rep’s statement to the effect that ‘occupied’ territories of Azerbaijan must be returned to Azeri control?

    • “Please explain how dropping atomic bombs on the innocent civilian population of two Japanese cities was justice in retaliation for the attack on Pearl Harbor.”

      That is a horrible way to misdirect the discussion. What does Japan have to do with Lisbon 5? Those two are not the same thing. I have issues with the nukes too but they were dropped in the middle of an ongoing war.

      Actually I’m not even sure what your point is. Are you saying dropping nukes on Japanese civilian areas is justice for the Pearl Harbor? Are you in favor of such acts? There is controversy over the nukes but I’m not sure it about whether it was revenge.

      As for the Russia arms sales, those weapons will kill Armenians, unlike the words coming out of the US rep’s mouth. Again, not the same thing. Are you seriously saying we should be more worried about what the US rep says over the billions in weapons Russia sells to the Azeris who are making genocidal threats against us?

    • Avery,

      Not well done.

      “The Lisbon-5 did not plan to commit random acts of violence against innocent people like you are trying to suggest. They planned to occupy the Turkish embassy in order to bring attention to the crime of the Armenian Genocide which until today has not seen justice for the Armenian people. The deaths that occurred were the result of a plan which went wrong, and nothing more.”

      If their intention was not to hurt anyone, they would not have detonated the bombs. They went to the embassy at the very least willing to kill people. They shot the Portuguese policeman when they tried to enter the embassy.

      They went there with guns and explosives, creating a violent and dangerous situation where they knew the authorities would bring out their forces to deal with it. They are responsible for the harm and deaths as a result of their actions. If they truly did not mean to harm anyone, they should have surrendered.

      For me, this is about the right and wrong way to go about justice. This was the wrong way and I have every right to disagree with the use of violence.

    • For you it may be misdirection of discussion. For me it is drawing of an analogy between two events and motives behind them, in which killing (mass killing in the case of Japan) of innocent people has occurred. Evenhough nukes were dropped in the middle of an ongoing war, they were dropped not on military targets, but on innocent civilians, causing sudden or excruciating death and diseases upon hundreds of thousands of them. Some US college and university textbooks, actually, draw a historical parallel between dropping nukes on Japanese civilian areas as a retaliatory measure for Pearl Harbor, which, by the way, was a military target. My—rhetorical, rather—question, therefore, is why is it that in one case killing of civilians en masse can be justified by a prior enemy attack on a military target, but in other case “no justification for what the Lisbon 5 did” can be found? Are you in favor of being slaughtered as sheep and against retaliation and justice for the crime?

      As for the Russian arms sales, of course, weapons and words, trivially speaking, are not the same thing. But the words coming out from the government of such country as the US can be no less destructive in terms of their political, diplomatic, and military repercussions, because such words send an unambiguous message to the same AzerBEYs triggering their genocidal threats against us. Don’t you understand this? My question was not about whether weapons and words were the same thing. Nor was it about greater or lesser threat to Armenia by means of weapons or by way of official statements. My question was about your enthusiastic criticism of the one and deathly silence about the other. You again failed to provide a direct answer. By the way, some news media speculate that Russia will soon be selling mobile short-range ballistic missile systems “Iskander-M” to Armenia at factory price. When the news is confirmed and AW chooses to post it here, I’d like to see you enthusiastic praise of the deal. And not just one, but as many as your critical comments posted in other threads.

    • john,

      I’ll post whatever I want and whenever I want to. I don’t take directions from you or anyone else.

      As for words vs physical weapons, the point you missed was that I fear the weapons more than what the US rep says. If the US rep had supported Artsakh independence, those words would not physically stop those Russian weapons from being used against us.

      I’ve read about the Iskanders as well. But I don’t see anything to cheer about because I also read about how the deputy defense minister said the Iskanders would give us equal footing with the Azeris. Not dominance but put Armenia and Artsakh on equal footing. This is not a cause for celebration for me since for Armenian security you want to dominate, not be on equal footing. I know that’s next to impossible given how Russia especially wants military parity between us and the enemy, but being on equal footing with the Azeris is no cause for celebrations.

      Prez Sarkissian also has expressed the concern Armenians feel about the weapons sales to the Azeris. So I’m not alone in this.

    • john,

      Your analogy with dropping the nukes on Japan is not making sense since it’s not clear to me what you’re trying to say. Are *you* saying, or in other words, do *you* believe that the nukes were justified? If yes, then are you saying that in turn what the Lisbon 5 did must also be acceptable? I never brought up Japan nor tried to justify. But you seem to be trying to justify attacks on civilians are justified as revenge or retributions or an attempt to get justice. Is that your point?

      Second, I don’t really agree with the targets the US chose when they nuked Japan. I’ve always believed they should have dropped one over the ocean as a demonstration followed by a purely military target.

    • First off, you cannot post whatever you want. It is the prerogative of AW moderators to regulate what all of us post. Secondly, no one gave you ‘directions’. I said “I would like to see”. I, thus, expressed a wish.

      As for words vs. weapons, well, even if you fear the weapons more than a statement by the US rep on behalf of his government, you still chose not to express lesser concern in regard to it. You chose to keep deathly silence. If the US government had supported independence of Artsakh, those words would have a tremendous impact on Azerbeys, who would understand, I hope, that using Russian or non-Russian or what-have-you weapons against Armenians at the time when America had supported Artsakh’s self-determination could only hasten wider diplomatic and political recognition of the region’s independence. You again effectively avoided giving us a reason why an unbiased—however random—Armenian would vigorously condemn Russia’s arms sales, but remain silent about the official statement made by a US rep. It also certainly looks strange that you decided to post on a commemorative event organized by a local ARF committee for an act that had taken place 32 years ago, but chose to remain silent about an explicitly anti-Armenian statement by the US rep with regard to an ongoing conflict.

      We already discussed Armenian security issue. I’ve shown—in my non-military expertise—that, according to Sun Tsu, invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack. Russian newest Iskander-Ms can serve as deterrents even if they put Armenia and Artsakh on equal footing with Azeristan. Other sources suggest that they can effectively ratchet down Azeri offensive combat power. If these sources are correct, then I guess the deputy defense minister didn’t have to broadcast to the world if Iskander-Ms would give the Armenian side superiority. But the mere fact of Russia’s possible sale of these missile systems to Armenia at favorable price gives rise to praise unless a person doesn’t see anything to cheer in this deal given his biases and agenda.

      What I’m trying to say by drawing an analogy with dropping the nukes on Japanese civilians is that in one case it’s being presented as a retaliatory measure, while killing a civilian in another case has “no justification for what the Lisbon 5 did”. How can’t there be such a justification? Lisbon 5 were flesh and blood of those 1.5 million barbarously murdered and half a million forcibly deported Armenian civilians. One case happened in connection to a war, the other – in connection to a crime against humanity.

    • “Russian newest Iskander-Ms can serve as deterrents even if they put Armenia and Artsakh on equal footing with Azeristan. Other sources suggest that they can effectively ratchet down Azeri offensive combat power. ”

      Do we have any guarantees that Russia will not sell the Iskander’s to the Azeris?

    • {Do we have any guarantees that Russia will not sell the Iskanders to the Azeris?}

      To begin with, we don’t know as of yet if Russians provided these missile systems to Armenia. Yet, you already preemptively ask if we have guarantees that Russia will not sell them to the Azeris. This doesn’t look right, Random. An unbiased Armenian would see something to cheer—at least for the moment—in a possible deal that can effectively deter our enemy.

  3. What good does it do to be the first Christian nation if we today decide there is an exception to Christian belief and the commandments for taking innocent life for a noble cause?

    With great respect to the families and friends of the five, we are celebrating the intentional (or perhaps reckless) taking of the lives of Portuguese and a Turkish woman who was as innocent as my great uncles were.

    These killings also hardened Turkey against us. We lost the sympathy which many Turks had, from 1915-1980’s. These killings strengthened our enemies.

    • So, jda, whenever it comes to justice and retaliation, we must remember we are the first Christian nation, huh?

      When Muslim Turks committed horrendous atrocities against Armenian Christians, they must have suffered from a lapse of memory in that Jesus Christ is a prophet in Islam and is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Messiah who was sent to guide the people with the new Gospel.

      Muslim Turks must have forgotten that one whole Sura in the Qur’an is named after Mary, Mother of Jesus, and that Mary is the only female referred to by name in the entire Qur’an and is attributed the honorific title ‘Sister of Aaron’.

      Muslim Turks must have forgotten that in societies governed by Sharia (Islamic law) tolerance and autonomy must be accorded to the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) who recognize the God of Abraham as the one and only god, just as Muslims do.

      Muslim Turks must have forgotten that their prophet Muhammad has issued the following decree to the Muslims in his Promise to Monastery of St. Catherine:

      “This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

      Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

      No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.

      Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

      No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

      No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

      But despite all of the above, Muslim Turks have mass murdered, mutilated, tortured, skinned alive, gang raped, burnt and buried Armenian Christians alive. Yet, we, as the first Christian nation must honor God’s commandments and refrain from taking an innocent life in disproportionate retaliation for what the nation of Muslim Turks has done to us. Is this what you’re saying?

    • John,

      That is obviously not what I am saying. I am saying that we cannot reconcile professing Christ and defending or promoting the murder of innocents.

      If you want to shed the inconvenient Christ because He is not a murderer, you have placed a temporal, national and limited goal ahead of your immortal soul and the souls of those you encourage. The one religious leader who is all for murder is Mohammed.

      Do you accept Christ? Isn’t it because He is a destination your head and heart compel you to seek?

      Do you make the general confession and then take communion? Is it not because you must? If you do, but if you applaud murders in the names of our Martyrs, why bother participating in Badarak?

      The Martyrs are just that. Their deaths are no longer to be mourned, but instead, their courage and fidelity to Christ are to be a source of strength for us.

      Your point about Moslem writings is interesting but irrelevant. We are not Moslems. Those of our brothers and sisters who converted to save their lives will return, or will forget us entirely. Moreover, the later Koran passages are all about enslaving and killing infidels.

      Finally, what did the Lisbon 5 achieve politically? They killed innocents. They caused immense suffering to themselves and their families, and gave Turk Nazis a 30 year excuse to revile us, and Turkish moderates good reason to be cowardly. What did they achieve for Armenians in Bolis, exactly?

      But ISIS certainly believes in killing innocents for retaliation and for other reasons..

  4. “My ideas are not “Turkish”. And I am not the only Armenian who sees the Lisbon 5 and other acts as the wrong way to go about justice.”

    Yes they are, and your post in perfectly in-line with what a Turkish government official would state, phrases like “Their goal was to make a political statement through assassination” and “They targeted someone who was not guilty of the genocide”.

    “Please explain how killing them is justice.”

    Why don’t you furnish some facts as to which Armenian body or official said killing hostages or the Portugese guard was justice before making up stuff as you go along to fit your narrative?

    “I said “was” not “are”. And you’re the one twisting my words”
    “This was the wrong way and I have every right to disagree with the use of violence.”

    Yes you did use “was”, but I was addressing the overall tone of your post because you did a lot more than disagree with the use of violence: you accompanied your disagreement with misinterpretation of facts and half-truths in order to make unfounded allegations, and that’s what the issue was. You have the right to disagree, but you don’t have the right to make up facts.

    “If they had no intention of killing anyone, but just to draw attention, they should have let the hostages go before killing themselves”

    And what is it you are suggesting that they try to occupy the embassy using water pistols and bubble gum? Get real. If their purpose was to “kill Turks indiscriminately” as you were trying to suggest, they could have done it without much risk to their own lives by killing many of the Turks outside of the building and elsewhere and escaping.

    The bottom line, you don’t have to agree with the use of violence, but your offensive post merely showed how unsympathetic you are to the Armenian cause of pursuing justice for the Genocide. Times change, and methods change, but our pursuit for justice will never stop.

    • Your reaction is so over the top it’s not even worth trying to parse through and give a reasonable response.

      And I’m not misinterpreting. They shot a Portuguese policeman at the front of the embassy to get in. Not a Turk but Portuguese. That shows they were willing to kill to accomplish their goal.

    • {“…. showed how unsympathetic you are to the Armenian cause of pursuing justice for the Genocide. “}

      Exhibit A: Random’s vein attempt (Sassounian thread) to discredit Dr. Lemkin’s coining of the word ‘Genocide’ and its linkage to the Armenian Ցեղասպանություն.

  5. “And what is it you are suggesting that they try to occupy the embassy using water pistols and bubble gum? Get real. If their purpose was to “kill Turks indiscriminately” as you were trying to suggest, they could have done it without much risk to their own lives by killing many of the Turks outside of the building and elsewhere and escaping.”

    I actually never said or suggested “indiscriminately”. They fact that they went after the embassy showed that it was a deliberate target.

    They also deliberately took hostages. They triggered the explosion killing the wife and would have killed the child too if he had not escaped. And also a Portuguese guard in the process. If they had no intention of killing anyone, they would not have detonated the bomb, or shot their way in.

    Not accepting the violent methods the Lisbon 5 used does not make one unsympathetic to the cause. That’s a dishonest accusation.

  6. {“Random American,” Well done, Hagop.}
    (Avery // August 10, 2015 at 6:36 pm)

    {Avery, Not well done}
    (Random Armenian // August 11, 2015 at 11:54 am)

    Random:

    When Hagop called you ‘American’ instead of ‘Armenian’, he was being quite accommodating.

    {“My ideas are not “Turkish”.}(Random)…..
    {” Yes they are, and your post in (is) perfectly in-line with what a Turkish government official would state, ..”}(HagopD)

    …….is closer to the truth.

  7. Agree or disagree with the Lisbon events, people who tend to be critical of the Lisbon-5 typically fail to appreciate history within the proper context and what was going on in the diaspora-Armenian psyche of that time. To put this in the proper perspective, three plus decades ago were much different times for Armenians than today. Six to seven decades on from the Genocide, in the Middle East, Armenians grew up with their elders which had survived the Genocide and with the knowledge, regret and anger of having lost most of their family members. Their wounds had not healed at that time, and we can safely say they still haven’t. They may never heal completely, but perhaps come close to it after justice is served on the perpetrating two countries in the future.

    As diaspora Armenians, unlike today, we did not have a free homeland we could consider ‘home’ in 1983, nor had any connections to what was left of Armenia, nor a proper direction. We were headed into oblivion. There was Soviet Armenia, but that was part of “another world”, and Bolshevism was definitely not something we wanted anything to do with, and Armenia was considered to be an occupied country at that time.

    As a people in exile who were desperate to heal from the biggest catastrophe that ever befell us, the international community had simultaneously turned a deaf ear on our community for our demands for justice. There was no mechanism for the road to justice, because there was no (free) country that could facilitate and legalize those demands. Certainly the Armenian Genocide and its recognition is a political issue and not only a ‘historical matter’ between Armenia and Turkey today, but for the offspring of Genocide survivors three and plus decades ago, there was no such process. But there were feelings of hopelessness and lots of anger. Suffice it to say those were desperate times in which our leadership did what they did to show the international community that we as Armenians and survivors of the biggest crime in history meant business.

    Did it work? I’m inclined to say yes, because it seems the international community did not dismiss the Armenian cause thereafter, and our resolve for the pursuit of justice evolved to a higher calling, and became greater and more organized. The fall of Bolshevism in the following years was almost perfect timing because suddenly our pursuit for justice became tangible and we were about to have a free country which could organize our demands on the official level.

    And the claim that this hardened Turkey against us also does not mean much because Turkey was always Turkey where its genocidal government was concerned, and the opinion of its ignorant masses could easily be swayed any way by the same. In fact if I was an honest Turk who accepted that my country committed Genocide against the Armenians, and they were using violence against Turkish government officials, my opinion would not change against the factual Genocide, but I would demand that my government do the right thing and come to terms with its criminal past.

    Despite that the Lisbon events did not proceed as planned, the bravery of the Lisbon-5 had a time and a place. Today we consider those lost young lives to be too great a price to pay, times have changed, and as a community we have grown and are thankful today that their sacrifice was not all in vain because it brought our cause into focus and strengthened our resolve for justice.

    The point of all this was, it is easy for a westerner today to make judgments against people and events of the past based on their media-conditioned ‘values’ of today which are often based on absent and/or distorted history and facts. But in order to understand events, both current and past, we cannot ignore or discount their historical aspects.

    • “Agree or disagree with the Lisbon events, people who tend to be critical of the Lisbon-5 typically fail to appreciate history within the proper context and what was going on in the diaspora-Armenian psyche of that time.”

      Did everyone in the diaspora at the time agree with what Lisbon-5? I doubt it.

      It’s rather insulting to say that that disagreeing with Lisbon-5 shows one does not appreciate Armenian history or sympathy with the cause. Those who committed violence were a tiny, tiny part of the diaspora. So much more who felt the pain and frustration and anger made no such attempt and many of the same did not feel violence was justified. You think I don’t get angry at the denialism and the anti-Armenian politics which has been going on for 100 years? I grew up with stories of my family’s loss. The anger and pain was palpable and I recognize it when I see it other families of survivors.

      You’re trying to discredit my arguments by insulting me and trying to paint me as unsympathetic and even making Turkish arguments.

      Regardless of what the mentality you think was there at the time, I don’t see violence as justified. Violence crosses a certain unacceptable border. And again I am not the only Armenian who feels that way now, nor back in the 70s and 80’s when all this was going on.

      “Despite that the Lisbon events did not proceed as planned, ”

      And how was it supposed to proceed? They took over the compound, took hostages and set up their explosives and got their message out. Wasn’t that the plan?What else was supposed to happen? They killed themselves and a hostage (while the son escaped). Did they go there to kill themselves in the end or come out of it alive? Did they mean to kill the ambassador? If they didn’t go there to kill anyone then why did they take hostages?

      “Certainly the Armenian Genocide and its recognition is a political issue and not only a ‘historical matter’ between Armenia and Turkey today, but for the offspring of Genocide survivors three and plus decades ago, there was no such process.”

      Yes it was always political. If you remember, Turkey put pressure on MGM back in the 30s to stop the making of Musa Dagh. The US state department started putting pressure on MGM as well because of relations with Turkey. It did not turn political or a historical matter after Armenian independence, it was always there from the start.

      And you can’t establish historical facts through violence. That’s done through research and academia and developing a consensus among historians that the Armenian Genocide was a reality. Which in turn the public accepts. Something we are doing a good job of now. That’s not done through violence. So yes, the Lisbon-5 and other acts have a political nature to them to counter the politics Turkey always played with its allies.

  8. Hagop D.

    How many uninvolved and innocent persons are we allowed to kill for a just result that [perhaps] serves the Armenian people?

    The charge’s wife [her name was Cahide Mihcioglu] and the Portuguese police officer [his name was Manuel Pacheco] were uninvolved and innocent. If you could be sure that killing the right number led to the realization of our goals, what is the number that represents too many innocent deaths?

    Christ says 0 is the right number. Do you know better than Christ?

    • jda:

      What did our Lord Jesus Christ know that we mere mortals didn’t, when He allowed the savage slaughter of close to 2 million (1894-1923) of His most devoted children ?

      Ո՞ւր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ խենթացավ լքված մի ողջ ժողովուրդ…
      Ու՞ր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ աղերսանքը մեր մարեց անհաղորդ:
      Ո՞ւր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ ավերում էին չքնաղ մի երկիր,
      Ո՞ւր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ, խենթացած ցավից, աղաչում էինք – Ամեն…
      Ո՞ւր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ արդարույթյան աչքերը կապվեց,
      Ո՞ւր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ շուրթերին ազգիս աղոթքը սառեց:
      Ո՞ւր էիր ,Աստված-
      երբ փրկության կանչով երկինքը ցնցվեց,
      Լուռ էիր Աստված-
      երբ, խաչերին գամված,
      աղոթում էինք – Ամեն…Իմ կարոտ հոգում,
      չկար ուրիշ հավատք և սեր, դու իմ Տեր,
      ես քեզ հավատում ու աղերսում էի ինչպես մի անխելք,
      ո՞ւ ր էիր, Աստված-
      երբ հոշոտում էին չքնաղ մի երկիր
      ո՞ւր էիր Աստված-
      երբ հույսերս կտրած
      աղոթում էինք – Ամեն…

      Arthur Meschian

    • You point, jda, basically pins down to Romans 12:19: “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written: “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

      But knowing and being indignant at what murderous Turks have done to our nation, I’m struggling with that directive and ask Lord Jesus to grant forgiveness for that. While I also understand the point [Avery] is making, I believe genocide was a vicious deed of the Satan and his Ottoman Turkish acolytes, while Armenians’ physical existence despite this annihilation attempt was God’s miracle.

      I think the directive “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you” from Mathew 7:6 must become an axiom for us as long as Turks live in our native lands.

    • Avery,

      To the question, “where were you Asdvadz?” the Church teaches two answers: first, that God is now and in 1870-1923 was with us, and with the victims, just as He was with every other Saint and Martyr killed for Christ’s sake.

      Second, as you say, the Genocide was Satanic, a product of the absence of God in the hearts of murderers. This is free will.

      I believe Tolstoy said that “Without God, All [Evil] is Possible.” To me, the question of “Where Were You Asdvadz” means also that there was no God in the hearts of the murderers. I certainly am aware that many Jews and Armenians ask this question every day. I don’t think our theology asserts that God is a being who intercedes to avoid tragedy. God the Father did not intercede to save His only begotten son.

      But whether God was present, absent, dead or indifferent, let us return to the acts of the Five. Their killing the police officer Manuel Pacheco and the Charge’s wife Cahide Mihcioglu are not self-defensive of themselves certainly, and not of the nation.

      I count the lives of the police officer and wife as especially innocent, but the lives of the Lisbon Five were also well-meaning young men deeply harmed by the Genocide. The only real difference is that the Five had sufficient free will to avoid killing themselves and the two other people. I certainly do agree that there is a causal link between the Genocide of the Christian peoples of the Ottoman Empire, and all seven of the deaths.

  9. {“taking the civilian wife of the Turkish official hostage, and then causing her death cannot possibly be an honorable Armenian action”}
    (Avery // July 29, 2013 at 8:36 pm //)
    http://armenianweekly.com/2013/07/27/lisbon-beyond-editorials/

    {“people who tend to be critical of the Lisbon-5 typically fail to appreciate history within the proper context “}
    (Hagop D // August 13, 2015 at 1:32 pm //)

    {“Well done, Hagop.”}
    (Avery // August 10, 2015 at 6:36 pm //)

    It appears that hypocrisy is a necessary trait of SAPs (self-appointed patriots). Including ours.

    As always, Random, good job injecting much-needed sensible perspective in the debate. And for persistently pushing back against the SAPs.

    • As usual our Turkophile guest has picked selected sentences from very long chain of posts to prove what exactly ?
      Read the entire chain of posts and replies, including the following passages of mine:

      {“We definitely must remember them: they were young, and they died willingly for the Armenian nation.”
      “I understand people wanting to remember the young men, whose goal was worthy.
      But the method was flawed”.}

      Read what I wrote again about the young men:
      “We definitely must remember them: they were young, and they died willingly for the Armenian nation”
      “remember the young men, whose goal was worthy”
      “But the method was flawed”

      {As to bringing the Turkish AG denial to the (Western) world’s attention:
      Mr. Gourgen Yanikian was the pioneer, and he did it the right way: cleverly luring, specifically targeting, and assassinating two Turkish embassy officials.
      No innocent bystanders were harmed.
      And he did the operational planning and execution all by himself.
      Another thing to think about, while remembering the Lisbon 5.}

      Random wrote:
      { Their goal was to make a political statement through assassination. This was not justice for Armenian genocide. They targeted someone who was not guilty of the genocide, since he was not even born then.}
      (Random Armenian // August 7, 2015 at 1:09 pm //)

      To which [HagopD] gave a “well done” response.
      Yes, there was justice at the time through assassination of Turkish _diplomats_, State actors of a Denialist State, as Yanikian did.
      AG was being completely ignored by the West, until those assassinations forced them to sit up and pay attention to what was done to Armenians by Turks, and the continuation of the Genocide by the Denialist Turkish State.

      {“ It appears that hypocrisy is a necessary trait of SAPs (self-appointed patriots). Including ours.”}
      It appears your attempt to inject your Turkophile disruption into _our_ discussion fell flat as usual.

    • Thanks Vahagn for that reference. It seems Avery eloquently put to words exactly what I was trying to say here!

      And that’s what gets me. Self appointed patriots who claim to speak for everyone and get to decide who is an Armenian or not.

  10. Random: “I was not trying to discredit Lemkin Avery. You keep lying about this.”

    He is not saying you are “discrediting Lemkin”. As I recall you were trying to intentionally misinterpret him instead, in order to marginalize and/or purge the role that the Armenian Genocide played with the creation of the word ‘genocide’. Your “proof” actually became obsessive enough to qualify as anti-Armenian rhetoric.

    • “Exhibit A: Random’s vein attempt (Sassounian thread) to discredit Dr. Lemkin’s coining of the word ‘Genocide’ and its linkage to the Armenian Ցեղասպանություն.”

      He used the word discredit.

      There is no doubt the Lemkin’s interest in genocide started before the Holocaust with the Armenian genocide. The issue for me is how some of us Armenians explain Lemkin’s connection to the Armenian genocide by how he created the word.

    • Poster [Avery]: “Exhibit A: Random’s vein attempt (Sassounian thread) to discredit Dr. Lemkin’s coining of the word ‘Genocide’ and its linkage to the Armenian Ցեղասպանություն.”

      Poster [Random]: He used the word discredit.

      In the Exhibit A poster [Avery] used the word ‘discredit’ in connection with the coining of the word ‘Genocide’, not in connection with Lemkin proper. Don’t insult our intelligence. Please.

  11. jda,
    Perhaps you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I did not and do not advocate harming innocent people. I was trying to say, when some Armenians of our past had a mission or a message, their intent was not violence against innocent people for the sake of violence, but in their view it was one way for a demand for justice. And as I stated, we have a free nation now, and force is not necessary to make the arrogant, condescending and pompous western nations listen to Armenia’s demands, because they no longer have the luxury of ignoring Armenians.

    And no I definitely do not know better than Christ, but I’m not inclined to accept misinterpreted Christian teaching either. As a Christian I have come to realize the Vochkhar Christianity practiced by us a century ago got us a Genocide and made us lose the majority of our country. This is what our enemies would love for us to believe in today as well. What I believe in is Katch Vartan and Levon Medzakordz Christianity.

    • {“This is what our enemies would love for us to believe in today as well”}

      Exactly Hagop: a favourite method of our enemies to psychologically disarm our people and prepare them for slaughter is to misquote or misinterpret teachings and admonitions of Christ.
      Where the mind leads, the body follows.
      Convince an Armenian he has no Christian right to defend himself, and you have already mostly succeeded in your goal of exterminating them.

      Luke 22:36
      [He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.]
      [Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.
      Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:14). When protecting one’s family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.]

      Fortunately, our men of the cloth, who by definition know how to interpret Christ’s admonitions correctly, are not confused by mental guilt-tricks our enemies try to lay upon our Armenian, Christian character.
      To wit: the heroic Archbishop Barkev Martirosyan of Artsakh.
      http://www.ancawr.org/archbishop-barkev-martirosyan-primate-of-the-diocese-of-artsakh-will-be-bestowed-the-khrimian-hayrig-award-at-anca-wr-banquet/
      {A modern day warrior of peace and fatherly shepherd, Archbishop Martirosyan has been an inspirational figure in Artsakh, most well known for providing religious guidance and moral support to Armenian soldiers and their families during and after the Artsakh Liberation War. In the darkest days in Artsakh’s recent history, Archbishop Martirosyan encouraged his people to defend themselves against the unjust acts of invading Azerbaijani forces, and often blessed Armenian soldiers before the start of operations, such as the historic liberation of Shushi.}

      And any Armenian who is still not sure, please see who you can spot in this picture, standing shoulder to shoulder with Armenian warriors.
      In white beard, holding a sword.
      http://www.armenianchurchwd.com/news/sts-vartanantz-day/
      One more:
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/studioashnag/3298995553

  12. Since we are travelling back to year 2013, let us see what other interesting posts we can find in the archives.
    Ah, here is one:

    {“For instance, “Chalikushu,” the TV miniseries which was shown in USSR under the title “korolyok, ptichka pevchaya (“Wren, the singing bird”) is uniquely Turkish because it cannot be equated with any other culture). While it has elements of other cultures, it is imbued with Turkish flavor.”}
    {“Plus Çalıkuşu (“Korolyok, ptichka pevchaya” in USSR), a sweet miniseries about the love story between a beautiful woman and her first cousin.}
    (Vahagn // July 16, 2013 at 3:28 pm //) (Rendahl thread)

    Now: how many Armenians consider it “sweet” for first cousins to marry, which btw is expressly forbidden by the Armenian Apostolic church, yet is widely accepted and practiced in certain cultures.
    I can’t think of too many other things that are more alien to our Armenian culture than that.
    The fact that someone would consider it “sweet” says all there is to know about the person.

    Some other past passages from our “compatriot”, who finds such joy in Turkish sweet flavours:

    {““nkr” is not a large territory. As I stated earlier, it’s a pathetic little piece of aborted fetus (geopolitically speaking, of course).”}

    {“unlike the thugs in the pathetic state of “Armenia” (oh, and in that terrorist entity called “nkr”.)”}

    {“ Most likely, these thugs from “Karabakh” and the “Fund” would end up with broken bones or worse. Which is bound to happen sooner or later. That, or the Azeris will invade and rape these thugs when the people are gone. I personally prefer the first option.”}

  13. We haven’t heard back from you, Random, as to why you decided to post 14 comments in a thread describing a commemorative event for a retaliatory act that has taken place 32 long years ago, but chose to post 0 comments in the thread that informed the readers about an anti-Armenian statement made by a US government rep in regard to an ongoing modern conflict.

    Need more time?

    • I’m commenting it because people are commemorating the event today.

      If people can commemorate the Lisbon-5 as heroes in 2015. Why can’t I also comment about it in 2015?

      I also don’t have to make comments on every little thing that goes in the Armenian world.

    • Well, an official statement by the US government re: an ongoing, modern armed conflict is also happening nowadays. Why couldn’t you also comment on it in 2015, i.e. at the time it was made? You certainly don’t have to make comments on “every little thing that goes in the Armenian world”. However, (a)one would think that a commemorative event for an act that took place 32 years ago has much lesser political impact as compared to a contemporary statement by a representative of a mediator to the ongoing conflict; and (b)one would think that your selectivity in making a comment on one thing that goes in the Armenian world and keeping a deathly silence on the other, suggests that you have biases and agenda.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.


*