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‘Grandma’s Tattoos’: A Riveting Film About the Forgotten Women of Genocide (Trailers)

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Director: Suzanne Khardalian
Producer: HB PeA Holmquist Film
Length: 58 min., Sweden
Date of release: September 2011

STOCKHOLM, Sweden—“Grandma Khanoum was not like everyone else. As a child I remember her as a wicked woman. She despised physical contact. This was a grandma who never hugged, gave no kisses. And she wore those gloves, which hid her hands and the tattoos. They hid her secret.” This is how Suzanne Khardalian describes her grandmother.

Grandma Khanoum

Khardalian is the director and producer of riveting new film called “Grandma’s Tattoos” that lifts the veil of thousands of forgotten women—survivors of the Armenian Genocide—who were forced into prostitution and tattooed to distinguish them from the locals.

“As a child I thought these were devilish signs that came from a dark world. They stirred fear in me. What were these tattoos? Who had done them, and why? But the tattoos on grandma’s hands and face were a taboo. They never spoke about it,” explains Khardalian.

“Grandma’s Tattoos” is a journey into the secrets of the family. Eventually, the secret behind Grandma Khanoum’s blue marks are revealed.

“Grandma was abducted and kept in slavery for many years somewhere in Turkey. She was also forcibly marked—tattooed—as property, the same way you mark cattle. The discovery of the story has shaken me. I share the shame, the guilt, and anger that infected my grandma’s life. Grandma Khanoum’s fate was not an aberration. On the contrary, tens of thousands of Armenian children and teenagers were raped and abducted, kept in slavery,” she explains.

In 1919, just at the end of World War I, the Allied forces reclaimed 90,819 Armenian young girls and children who, during the war years, were forced to become prostitutes to survive, or had given birth to children after forced or arranged marriages or rape. Many of these women were tattooed as a sign that they belonged to abductor. European and American missionaries organized help and saved thousands of refugees who were later scattered all over the world to places like Beirut, Marseille, and Fresno.

The story of “Grandma’s Tattoos” is a personal film about what happened to many Armenian women during the genocide. It is a ghost story—with the ghosts of the tattooed women haunting us—and a mystery film, where many taboos are broken. As no one wants to tell the reel and whole story, and in order to bring the pieces of the puzzle together, the director makes us move between different times and space, from today’s Sweden to Khardalian’s childhood in Beirut.

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In the film we meet Grandma Khantoum’s sister, 98-year-old Lucia, who lives in Hollywood. Lucia, too, has those odd tattoos. She is willing to tell us only a part of the story. We also meet with Aunt Marie, Grandma’s only still-living child in Beirut. But Aunt Marie doesn’t know the whole story either. Grandma has never told it to her. It was forbidden to talk about the “unspeakable.” Aunt Marie has the same unpleasant memories as the rest of the family.

It’s finally Khardalian’s mother who tells the story about Grandma Khanoum, and about the Kurdish man who was supposed to her grandma escape the killings but instead decided to abduct her and keep her as his concubine. Grandma was only a child then. She had just turned 12 The words “Mummy, mummy help me” is the sentence that haunts Suzanne and her family.

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About the Director

Suzanne Khardalian is an independent filmmaker and writer. She studied journalism in Beirut and Paris and worked as a journalist in Paris until 1985, when she started to work on films. She also holds a master’s degree in international law and diplomacy from the Fletcher School at Tufts University, and contributes articles to different journals. She has directed more than 20 films that have been shown both in Europe and the U.S. They include “Back to Ararat” (1988), “Unsafe Ground” (1993), “The Lion from Gaza” (1996), “Her Armenian Prince” (1997), “From Opium to Chrysanthemums” (2000), “Where Lies My Victory” (2002), “I Hate Dogs” (2005), “Bullshit” (2006), and “Young Freud in Gaza” (2009).

Producer

PeA Holmquist Film is a production company established in 1973.The company has been producing films mostly for Scandinavian TV channels often with Scandinavian co-producers. Several films have been sold all over the world.

165 Comments on ‘Grandma’s Tattoos’: A Riveting Film About the Forgotten Women of Genocide (Trailers)

  1. So glad this is being released.  When can we see it?

  2. avatar gaytzag palandjian // September 7, 2011 at 10:34 am // Reply

    Very moving  and heart rendering.What  Suzanne Khardalian has  discovered  re her grandma and a made  a film  of it. For her and others information here  in Florida,a Trio,headed  by film maker-mainly documentaries- Bared  Maronian, have dared  into filming “Orphans of the Genocide”which reveals  how Jemal pasha and his Fetieh something  lover  in the outskirts of Beirut  turkified  over a thousand Armenian orphans. The 18 minute   trailer  has already been there for a few months  or more-in which I too have a word  or two re my orphaned mother,her family Saga  though is in Nakhijevan the azeri occupied  Large Armenian Province. Then ,;later , Maronian  has included survivor  Dr. Jack Kevorkian-prior to his passing- and then famous journalist  Robert  Fisk  of the Independent. The real long length over an hour  documentary is slated to be shown  later  this year. Now some comments on my behalf,not on above,but./
    Years ago I came across book   ”  m a m i g o n ”  by Jack Hashian,American writer, which is the perfect  story to be  made into a feature film.Indeed script  to be written ,if possible  by someone  like  the Armenian American who wrote  Schindler”s  List.
    I promise  the story  in this volume  is ,can be  much more thrilling  than Schindlerss.
    It begins  in Western Armenia , masacers etc., but story woven around   a one man”s saga,his family and close  turkish officer  friend who betrays  him  and then the plot  ends in Boston, after  a  very arduous, tough  and drilling  pursuit by   Mamigon  in the Armenian Highlands  etc., etc., etc.
    Hope  Suzanne will have time to get the book and read  it and think over  it…
    best  Luck and \
    Hama haigagani SIRO
    P.S. Time we came out  with a feature film that besides  Genocide, shows  the valiant  Mamigon , depicting the Armenian spirit  to survive and also… 

  3. Hi,
    This movie has to show in Turkey. Turkish people must know what happened in the past.
    Best wishes and hope to see  and live together with all Armenians in their motherland.

    • avatar Umit Yigit // January 5, 2013 at 3:23 pm //

      This sad film, in my opinion, does not contribute to reconciliation between Armenian and Turkish people.

      It is extremely important that stories about the World War I are told to future generations without fueling racial haterate.

      May all 20 million who lost their lives during WWI rest in peace, for all nations, including Armenians.

    • stop it already with the reconciliation nonsense.
      there is no reconciliation between a victim and an unrepentant criminal.
      criminals get punished, and victims get compensated.

      why don’t you go to your local prison, get one of the guys in there serving time for rape and see if you can get the rape victim to reconcile with rapist.
      then come and preach to us about reconciliation.

      “stories about World War 1″.
      “all 20 million who lost their lives”

      how touching. how clever mixing soldiers KIA in WW1 with victims of Genocide.

      2 million Armenians were not killed in action: they were civilians – including women, children, and babies – who were murdered by your Turk ancestors.
      Because they were Armenians.

    • Umit, this is a sad story. Most Armenian families have similarly sad stories to tell. I understand that this sad truth is very difficult to face for some Turks. But it is the truth. Can there be a real reconciliation without courageously facing the truth?

    • avatar Umit Yigit // January 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm //

      Yes, I do believe to reconciliation. Otherwise I would not be here with my real name and thoughts. There is no doubt about the sufferings of the millions, I bleed for the Armenians as well as the innocent Turks and all other races. I cry for the tragedy for everyone not for a single nation. And I thought that was what racism was about.

    • Umit unfortunately there is no reconcilation when we are talking about victims and the unrepentant savage perpetrator… unless the criminal repents and compensates the victims, there wll never be a reconciliations.. please stop mixing different things together..

      close to 2 millioin and possibly more Armenians were brutally murdered.. they were not soldiers.. they were civilians, intellectuals, musicians, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, babies.. World War 1 can’t and should not be mixed with what befell upon my people.. please do not combine these two together..

      I appreciate the fact that you show feelings towards those who suffered not just one nation but all (as you stated), i still don’t think you truly understand the history of the Armenians and the Genocide.

      this movie is and WILL help to educate and spread the truth of what happened to the Armenians and is a very strong tool.. unlike what you believe…
      G

    • {“I cry for the tragedy for everyone not for a single nation. And I thought that was what racism was about.”}

      your crocodile tears are neither sincere nor convincing: yours is another variation in the long list of sophisticated denial attempts Turks and their Turcophile sycophants keep coming up with.

      At least Germans are decent and honorable enough people not to bring up their own war dead when people discuss the Jewish Holocaust.
      You Turk denialists are beneath contempt: attempting to gain sympathy for something that had nothing to do with either Armenians or the victims of the AG. The Armenian Genocide was not a, quote, ‘tragedy’: your savage foreign invader ancestors committed mass murder of an indigenous ethnos.

      And racism is your attempt to deny the deliberate murder of civilians by cleverly intermixing it with all those killed during WW1.
      I guess your version of the so-called ‘just memory’ baloney your devious FM Davutoglu came up with.
      .

    • Merry Armenian Christmas to AW and and everybody!!And may God bless to those brave Armenian Christian women who have been raped, and murdered, or were forced to change their faith in the name of Allah!!

    • GB,

      I would be careful with blessing the Armenian women who ” were forced to change their faith in the name of Allah” Those women gave birth to the Turkish nation who committed genocide against us. Sultan Hamid comes first to my mind.

    • avatar Kurt Vangsness // January 10, 2013 at 12:26 am //

      There is no “reconciliation” with Islam. The genocide of the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian Christians was because of Islamic Doctrine, i.e., Islamic Supremacism. It is the obligation of all devout Muslims to wage Jihad of the Sword and Jihad of the Pen against the “Kuffar” (non-believers).

      Islam has no “Golden Rule”. Islam is an Apartheid ideology that does not treat non-Muslims with respect and equality, but with intolerance and violence.

  4. avatar Hasmig Kalajian Kebranian // September 7, 2011 at 8:15 pm // Reply

    When can we see this film. It’s very touching and sad.

  5. Absolutely touching and sad.. truly sad… we should send this film to every govt that refuses to acknowledge the Genocide..everyone of them…

    Thank you Suzanne…

    Please let us know when this will air…

    Gayane

  6. Istanbul- are you of Turkish origin…. if you are, you are one special individual.. we need more Turks like you

  7. sounds like a must-see film. i have seen photos of the face and hand tattoos and gathered that they were ownership markings, but never connected it with prostitution. the more pieces that fall together in the genocide puzzle, the uglier it gets. 

  8. I am facinated and will be axiously awaiting the release of this film. So much not shared. And perhaps so much overshared. If all of these women were tattooed, how can the denial continue. What reason would this be done? I will never forget, and I will always tell the truths that I was told….

  9. Their name The SICK MAN OF EUROPE was not given for nothing..

  10. Lucine jan, Isn’t this a very sad story left from the Armenian Genocide?  Is it any wonder that a great many of our young girls and women during the genocide used to hold hands and together they jumped in the Yeprad or the Dikris rivers to kill themselves so that such things wouldn’t happen to them?  This is why they jumped in the river and get killed, for such things not to happen that they won’t have to live in shame for the rest of their lives.

    Yet in another thread called “Stepping out of Ottoman Archives, Diplomat says “We Really Slaughtered Them!” a supposedly an Armenian man addressed to me in Armenian saying that “while we are so little in numbers and while both our enemy as well as Russia are much greater in numbers and much stronger than us, there is no use fighting for the Armenian Genocide.  I answered him back of course.  Just check it out and see what I wrote back to him in Armenian.   

  11. Hi Gayane,
    I am Turkish origin, ı have been living in Istanbul, I am from Yozgat originly. Lots of Turkish origin people think like me, lots of tv programs have been making, lots of books have been publishing about genocide or meds yeghern or whatever you called it. When we listen, watch or read… when we learn, it is really difficult, it is really painfull. Please dont hate from Turkish people, they dont know but when they learn about the truths,… please belive their tears.
     

  12. Hello Istanbul,

    I understand your reluctance and pain…which is why I said we need more people like you.. you are one special individual.. Unfortunately, we have not met too many Turks on these pages who think like you.. on the contrary, VERY Anti-ARmenian and Deniars of GEnocide… and you know what hurts the most? Is that they have all the information tha they need, they have been presented with all the facts, but yet they still look at you and lie to your face and deny all the way….

    We have repeated many times on these pages my dear Istanbul, that Armenians don’t hate the ordinary TUrks.. we never did and will never do.. We hate the manipulation, the lies, and the denial of the Turkish govt as well as those who follow the govt’s ugly tail: them hard core deniars of such an autrocities..     

    I thank you for our courage… and you have my respect for standing up against all odds and declaring justice/truth your #1 priority…

    GOd Bless 

  13. Thank you Istanbul for your sympathetic heart towards our people.  Same as Gayane my sister, I also welcome truly progressive Turks like yourself who show compassion towards us and our cause.

  14. long live the brotherhood of the Kurdish and Armenian

  15. avatar Armenian living in Sweden // October 7, 2011 at 12:36 am // Reply

    Thank you for the film, but when and how we can see it?

  16. avatar lolita babikian // October 11, 2011 at 2:54 am // Reply

    very interesting,reminds me about my grandma Mary Der Haroutounian(Marash region),and i think i saw her photo in your cleap,the lady wearing nuns cloth,my mom has the same photo,from Siria.My grandmother used to work in french catholic hospital…1930 ..her face on the forhead,chin she had  tattos,and my mom said she never shared her story,,,she always said that”i can not tell,you better not know about it…its not a pleasant story…and her eys will fill with the  tears” 
    i can not wait to see the film.
    please let me know when will be open for public to see.
    Thank you for an important job you are doing for our new generations to come…Good luck.
    with regards Lolita Babikian,new york  

  17. avatar Nver Dilanian // January 23, 2012 at 10:51 pm // Reply

    Another sad untold story of thousands of young Armenian women during the Genocide. I can’t help but feel sad and appalled for these vicious acts of crime that still yet to be acknowledged by the rest of the world.
    Thank you Suzanne for having the guts and the insight to overcome your own feelings and make this film, that i am sure will unveil many other stories related to the Genocide. I like to take this chance to salute and bow in respect to those many Armenian young women who were viciously victimized , I wish they could hear me. I would shout to them, “I am so proud of you , you have no reason to feel ashamed or belittled. , i will wash your hands and your faces with my tears , for you have suffered too much.”
    PS I am watching the news. VIVA LA FRANCE. France just passed the “Genocide Bill” Armenians Forever.

  18. avatar Lovelle Spice // February 17, 2012 at 1:05 pm // Reply

    are you sure these tattooes were really made by muslim slave holders? islam forbids tattooing.. in croatia and parts of eastern europe, christian women were tattooed so they won’t lose their identity should they get kidnapped or forcibly converted.. same thing goes for coptic women in egypt

    • no we are not sure: we made it up, because we have nothing better to do.

      Your PM Erdogan also stated publicly that there could not have been a Genocide in Sudan:

      {“Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan continued his government’s denial of the ongoing genocide in Darfur on Sunday, questioning International Criminal Court (ICC) charges against Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir on grounds that “no Muslim could perpetrate a genocide,” the Turkish Today’s Zaman newspaper reported Monday.”} (TodaysZaman 2009)

      Is there a special school you guys go to – to learn really primitive AG Denial methods ?
      I mean, we have already seen much more sophisticated Turcophile Denialist agents: why do they keep sending amateurs ?

  19. Of course lot’s of Turks know about the Armenian exile and feel miserable about it. They have a problem with the word Genocide because of its connotations to the irrational hatred of Jews in Nazi Germany and the horror upon horrors they commited. I think change the word for now to help conversation.
    Turks can’t connect in any way to an old empire that they themselves wanted to be rid of. Also because the country was as miserable of a place as Afganistan – it had nothing back then, not one factory. Children were eating grass they were so hungry and poor.Turkey’s main goal then was was fighting for independance from colonial powers, not to kill poor Armenians, while Nazi Germany’s main goal was Genocide. Also, those Turkish leaders responsible were supposedly court marshalled, weren’t they?. Eastern Turkey is like another world for us city Turks. It’s not even safe for us!
    Change the word Genocide to massacre maybe? Unfortunately Turkey still has many uneducated conservative people as well as very nationalistic people just like many other countries. It might be a few more years before it can be spoken about calmly without emotion, denial, shame. Unfortunately wide racial hatred and murders exist today and will in the future and that is something we can still so something about. Also collective healing and bridging between countries. For example, an Armenian exhibit or handmade carpets and needlework could be on display in one of the fine galleries in Istanbul. We have an Armenian school in Istanbul. The schools do projects with each other.

    • Your entire post is an insult to the intelligence of Armenians and is an insult to our exterminated ancestors.

      The reason I consider it an insult is because I assume you are intelligent person.
      No intelligent person – who obviously has access to the internet – can write what you wrote, without deliberately being contemptuous of Armenians.

      You want to us change the word Genocide to massacre, maybe ?
      Why not also change “Armenian Genocide” to “Turk Genocide” ? – maybe.
      Armenians “genocided” the Turks (it’s a new word: look it up)

      People like you still think you are dealing with gyavurs: keep thinking that.
      We like being underestimated.

  20. Aisha,

    I appreciate the sympathetic tone of your post, but not its substance. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your position, progressive as you may think it to be, is the product of laziness at best.

    Should we assume from your pen name that you are not a Kemalist?

    No human being will compromise the truth of what happened to 3.5M Greeks, Pontians, Assyrians and Armenians to make it more palatable to Turks. We will not make it “Genocide light” or merely “massacres”, which implies an episode rather than a thorough plan.

    You kid yourself if you think the state did not want Armenians killed for being Armenians. There is enormous scholarship out there which is available to us all, including in Turkish. Just recently published are the annals of the trials.

    The definition of Genocide does not require that the murder of Anatolian and European Christians by the OE fit the Jewish template. The man who coined the word Genocide had both Genocides in mind.

    You also show profound ignorance. In the east, Christians had hundreds of factories and were the basis of a good economy. As Umit Ungor’s recently published book shows, this wealth and productivity was stolen by Turks.

    Finally, we do not sympathize with your implicit racism against Kurds. Many Kurds refused to kill our grandparents, thousands more defended them. They like us have always inhabited the lands. If Turks treated Kurds justly, you would have no fear of walking among them. City Turks may be advanced, but Kemalists are also the Nazis in your society.

    If you live in the US,what have you done to speak against the racism of groups like ATAA and its Nazi leaders?

    • Well done JDA.. great reply to Aisha…

      Aisha seems to be another one who tries hard to throw in and change the complexity of Genocide… trying to minimize the planned event against a race is an attempt of a denialist… She may sound sympathetic but her wording was chosen very carefully and it was done in the intend to AGAIN change the course of what Armenians are trying to do.. but no surprise to us, she will not succeed…

  21. Well done. I saw the film yesterday at Worcester State University in Massachusetts. The film covered a rarely talked about subject. It was poignant and compelling in the exploration of not only the survivor in the story, but also in how it impacted the lives of her children and grandchildren.

    There was a thoughtul panel discussion after that filled in many of the details surrounding the time period and political climate. I wish that some of the additional information provided by the panel was provided in the film itself – particularly the parts about the reintegration of the women back into their communities.

  22. The Jihad Against the Armenian, Assyrian, and Greek Christians
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/../2011/08/the_jihad_against_the_armenian_assyrian_and_greek_christians.html

  23. Unfortunately, the modern history has been driven more by political control among superpowers than to seek justice and restoring peace.
    This is more evident in the case of Armenian genocide. For more than 90 years passing from the Genocide of Christian in Anatolia and it is just recently that people in United States are coming to know about such topics as grandmas Tatoos and others. Despite US’s prominent Armnian community for most of 20th century.

    What would bring the truth overcome strategic dependacy of US on Turkey; in order to open the eyes of America to historic facts and bringing perpetrators to justice?

  24. There has to be reconciliation, although some will by all means stop the time still, the world has suffered enough from hateful people.

    • Umit Yigit,

      Why do not we try to reconcile the criminals with their victims, open the doors of our prisons and let everyone out, after all criminals suffered a lot too? The answer is very simple. We are afraid to live with them, and it will be morally wrong and unfair to the victims to do so. The same goes for Turkey. Do not believe that unpunished criminals return to the crime scene in hopes of finding another victim? Look what Turkey has been doing to Kurds for so many years after committing genocide against Armenians, Assyrians and Pontiac Greeks.

    • Yes, the Armenian world has suffered more than enough from hateful Turks, who invaded our lands, murdered our unarmed men, gang raped our women, abducted our boys, young women and girls.

      stole the wealth, the culture, the genes of a civilized sedentary people, who lived and created wealth on their own land for close to 5000 years.

      your savage, hateful, nomadic ancestors are the cause of all the problems in the region. it would be paradise on Earth, if your vicious barbarian ancestors had stayed in their own homeland. You know, very close to Uyguristan, next to China.

      Denialist Turk is a synonym for hate.

      And here is a short video of what Europeans think of Turks.
      [Austrian MP Ewald Stadler to Turkish Ambassador: “People are Sick and Tired”]

      Can you refute anything the Austrian MP says ?
      Find something like that for Armenians.
      Or Greeks. Or Assyrians.

      Admit it: you Denialist Turks are a synonym for Hate.

    • Avery,

      Thanks for posting it. I wanted to post it a while ago to show that some European countries are sick of article 301 as well, but forgot to do it. It sounds very powerful in German.

    • Thank you Avery jan for the video.. absolutely something everyone should see..

  25. My brief response to well intending people was unforunately not published. I do not reply to any agitator’s comments. One day everyone will prefer peace to destruction. Happy New Year to everyone!

    • Pot calling the Kettle black.

      A Denialist Turk agitator visiting ArmenianWeekly and spreading AG denialism, cloaked in fake pacifism.
      How convenient for Denialist Turks to discover peace, after the violent extermination of 4 million peaceful Christians.

      And Merry Armenian Christmas to all Armenians, including the souls of the 2 million murdered Christian Armenians.
      Who will never celebrate another Armenian Christmas.
      Whose 10 million potential progeny will never celebrate another Armenian Christmas.
      Their lives and the lives of future generations of Armenians extinguished forever.
      Extinguished by genocidal, savage, nomadic, invading Turks.
      Whose progeny visit ArmenianWeekly today and continue the Denial of the crimes of their ancestors.

  26. Umit Yigit, you write: “I cry for the tragedy for everyone not for a single nation. And I thought that was what racism was about.”

    Clearly you are a compassionate person who is trying to rise above racism and nationalism. However, I am not at all clear what it is you are asking of Armenians. It appears that you suggest that Armenians who concentrate on the suffering of Armenians and on gaining recognition and reparations for the Armenian genocide are being racist. Please correct me if I am wrong. Do you take offense at Armenians who speak forthrightly about the heinous crimes suffered by their ancestors? Do you find it hard to listen to the tales of rape, murder and forced conversions? Do you begrudge a people who have been wiped from their homeland the right to state to the world, “This is what happened to us” and have the world respond with basic human compassion such as “We acknowledge the injustice and you deserve to have things set right again.” Do you believe that, at the very least, the Turkish government should face it’s history honestly and apologize for the crimes committed against Armenians and other Christian minorities before, during and after WWI?

    The reconciliation you desire can only happen when the truth is acknowledged. Not a diluted, sugar pill of truth, but a full dose of medicinal healing truth. Then Armenians will know that Turks understand the full extent of the destruction they caused to the Armenian nation and how much the establishment of the modern Republic of Turkey benefited from what was stolen from Armenians and others. Then Armenians can begin to hope for a meaningful apology. And only then
    will Turkish society illuminate its dark spots and realize a fuller democracy.

  27. avatar john the turk // January 7, 2013 at 6:46 pm // Reply

    Boyajian, Avery
    Say whatever you want as Umit’s comments disappear in the Armenian universe

  28. Mr Boyajian: There is no doubt or denial in my words about the tragedy of Armenian civilians. All I was asking was to see the fact from a disaster for all humans. Too many Armenian friends turns blind eye to what war did to innocent people from all ethnicities and religions. I have nothing in common with the evilness ruled the world 100 years ago, not our children either. Jewish, Polish, Turkish, Armenian, christian, muslim are all human lives and am equally sad about. Blood feuds are archaic and are huge risk for fueling repetitions. Look what happened in Bosnia in heart of Europe short while ago because of same mentality. And yes if asking for peace is pacifism I rather be that instead of the alternative.

    • the word ‘tragedy’ that you keep using is a word of Denial when referring to the Armenian Genocide.
      there is a specific word for what was done to Armenians by your Turk ancestors: it was not a tragedy; it was a Genocide.
      if you have difficulty with the English language, learn it before preaching about peace to one of the most peace loving people in the world.

      [trag·e·dy – A disastrous event, especially one involving distressing loss or injury to life: e.g. an expedition that ended in tragedy, with all hands lost at sea.]
      [Genocide – is “the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group”]

      do you understand the difference between a deliberate act of murder and incidental loss of life due to some tragic event ?

    • Apparently our posts did not do justice for Umit Yigit.. he or she still continues with all humans suffered evilness.. but he or she does not realize that no other evilness have gone without recognition and reperations, or entire culture and lands stolen and made their own except what happened to Armenians..

      are stupidity and ignorance the denialists’ best traits? i don’t get it…

  29. Avery,

    I have seen that video. It is a big slap to the face of Turkish government officials and high ranks who haven’t yet learned to respect others. I really respect the Austrian MP for his decisive stance against the demanding and blackmailing wizzles who have inherited the ottoman Turk’s conquest mentality without shame.
    Europe might have large muslim poppulations, but they know they can’t afford allowing Turks to over take everything and call the shots on them as they desire.

    The funny part is, many Turks assume they are Europeans.But, what other than some of their genetic admixture makes them so?????
    Their rules don’t even overlap with democracy, and their life styles don’t mimik Eurpean model.
    On the other hand, they are not even like Arabs, Persians, or other non Turks. They are Turkish in mentality and follow a dominative and persistant model of approach to where ever they land on.
    I recommend “What happend to Armenians” Youtube

    The way Turkish ethnicities live as minorities in other nations, specially Europe, mimiks Turkic arrival, poppulating of Anatolia, and uniting to control it.

    The modern Ottoman state encourages its diaspora to obay their own constitutions over the nations they live in. I compare it to killer bee colonization, for which Turks like other human beings are not cloned sisters to obay in perfect unity.

  30. Umit, you are not addressing my points. You are also attempting to minimize the suffering of one group by equating it with all groups.

    If someone kills your sister and you go before the judge for justice and he says “Yes, Umit, many sisters have been killed. Now go live in peace with the murderer,” wouldn’t you think he was out of his mind or had no human compassion?

    I want peace too. But there is nothing peaceful about getting away with the death of 1.5 million innocent people. That is not a negotiable item.

  31. Umit Yigit,

    you seem to have a global view of the world. But, let me give you my reply just in response to you, without focusing on any specific event.

    If the world possesed distinct border between good and evil then the whole good on one side would of shared the same single history, without variations that exist in the world.
    Fortunately, this is not the case and the consequense of those events are so far reaching that it remains in the psychi and other aspects of different regions centuries to come. So, you can’t really ask the decendants of the victims to think about global peace and suffering of all humans if they are still continuing to be victims.

    A genocide which is not recognized and a case that is not closed is a wound in the memories of genocide decendants for whome the events repeat themselves in their rational minds. And the questions they ask when they look towards west and see the mountains which symbolize their ancestoral past, in the hands of deniers who do not give into anything so long.

    Although quite successful, the Armenian diaspora and inside the country all share this history and are victims of it until today. Denying the past has done more harm than good.

  32. i was already saddened with history, after reading all similar, bigotory chorus, i feel sorry for the future of the hatefully growing Armenian children really. If you see only your own tragedy you will never have a dialogue with anyone. Those who comitted crime are not my ancestors, they are criminals and I dont need to defend them, except that I feel pain of the Armenians only. i find it waste of time to talk to deaf ears, however maybe it is still worthwhile as there are a lot of sensible people who read but not write comments here.

    • Umit,
      Your approach is very wrong, Armenians speak about the truth. My grown up children learnt about AG from internet, from reliable sources, and from none “Armenian schools” . They are convinced in their own judgement without any help from “dad” , and I am sure if you live in Western societies the children more or less have similar mentalities!!

      The truth about AG will live, for next generation, regardless if they are Armenians or not, they already learning from schools and nobody can change that, it is not a punishment, it is all about the truth of AG !!

      Today’s children asking why Turks do not recognize AG and leave others alone such as France, EU, US and …..Germany recognize Holocaust long time ago, and I have never heard from Jews, that they hate German people!!

      Those Ottomans’s CUP leaders who organized AG, were responsible for Armenian Genocide, and educated people like you must tell your own government to stop protecting and calling them heroes! Yes those criminals were responsible for AG, yet it is your duty and other intellectual Turks, who can call their own denialist government to act and recognize, “Christian Genocide” of Ottoman Turkey!!It’s never too late to say I am sorry!!

    • {“, i feel sorry for the future of the hatefully growing Armenian children really”}

      Feel sorry for your own hatefully growing Turkish children. Really.
      Today, your Turkish children are being brainwashed and officially indoctrinated by the Turkish Education Ministry to hate Armenians. – similar to the Nazi regime brainwashing the German children to hate Jews and other Untermenschen. Really.

      http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-167429-sari-gelin-dvd-should-have-no-place-in-schools.html
      http://bianet.org/english/freedom-of-expression/123582-court-did-not-stop-racist-documentation-sari-gelin

    • avatar Kurt Vangsness // January 10, 2013 at 12:57 am //

      How ironic that you call Armenians “hateful”, when in fact the Genocide against the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian Christians was based on a hateful Ideology, Islam.

      Intolerance of intolerance, is not hate. Pointing out the intolerance of hateful and violent devout Muslims who perpetrate Genocide is not hate.

  33. Umit Yigit

    Who says we see only our own tragedy?
    We know about other genocides which took place after Armenian genocide in the 20th century in Uganda, Cambodia, Poland, and Yogoslavia. Many know that the Armenian gencide was the prelude to the gencides that came after it. And even today genocides can happen, because the first genocide is still being denied.

    You talk about hate, look to our east at Azeris who are supposedely your Turkish speaking friends.
    There are more cases of Armenian Turkish firendships without the armenian giving up his love and recognition of genocide and Turk agreeing with it than there are Azeris who even want to try.
    So, if you are sorry then direct it to them. At least you can tell them in their own language. Ask them why the country rejuiced over Safarov’s pardon instead of flooding the streets to protest the crime of pardoning a criminal?

    I guess now you are shifting your comments from kind and phylosphical to kind and political.
    Interesting indeed.

    And instead of telling us about our hatrads tell the Turkish nationalists who aren’t few dozen, rather millions of youngesters who are growing up with Turkish flags on their shoulders.

    When I speak with most Armenians they don’t speak of hating Turks. And I don’t hate Turks. I hate all the denials, lies, and persistant Turkish government’s ignorance, and political misguidances they apply to the real history that affected Armenians and other neighbors of Turkey up to this day.

    Saying that we have grown to be hateful and begotary is another way of singling Armenians to make your point that we are ignorant.

    You are sending mixed messages such as: Basing the view of our genocide as an international event and we should not fight for its recognition.

    Maybe Umit, Turks who think like you would be satisfied if we go ahead and trust the denialists and have dialogue with them to discuss how much of the truth must be recognized and how much of it must be denied.

  34. Umit Yigit has a point when reminding Armenians to care about the suffering of others. This is good advice for any human being. But who says we don’t?

    Unfortunately, Umit Yigit has a blind spot when it comes to his/her own limited compassion for the suffering of Armenians due to the genocide perpetrated by his/her ancestors. Yes he/she acknowledges that Armenians suffered, but only to the extent that this acknowledgment doesn’t offend the tender sensibilities of Turks. At the point of ‘discomfort,’ caused by the natural anguish and shame evoked by learning the awful truth about one’s history, he/she retreats into an “everyone has suffered” minimization of the tragic crime. Convenient, no?

    Sadly, too typical. Few Turks can truly ‘go the distance’ and confront the implications of the crime of their ancestors. Civil society in Turkey is based on an exaggerated grandiosity (which any dime store therapist could tell you is usually a cover for underlying inferiority complex!). Turks are the best! The prettiest! The smartest! Have the best vacation spots! The best cuisine! ‘Ancient Turks’ built those magnificent churches! Come see our incredible archaelogical sites!

    Yes, those stolen lands, that stolen culture and those stolen genes have served them well. The least they could do before putting that dolma made from my grandma’s recipe in their mouths is to say, “Thank you Allah for those who built this land with toil and creativity. Sorry we had to crush them in order to be ‘proud Turks today.”

  35. If you lack human perspective noone will look at yours. I seeTurkish or Armenian as valuable as anyone else, no more no less, if you could do the same world would be an improved place.

    • From a ‘human perspective’, it is important to punish genocide perpetrators in order to deter repetition of such inhumanity to man. I strongly doubt that Germans will ever again attempt genocide of any group. They were compelled to learn a very hard lesson. Can we say the same for Turkey?

      Ask a Kurd? Ask a journalist in a Turkish prison. Ask Hrant Dink. Ask the decapitated Catholic bishop. Ask Maritza Kucuk. Ask the murdered soldier, Sevag. Ask the Turkish parlimentarians who blame their opposition groups for the genocide. Ask the thousands of hidden or Turkified Armenians. Ask the tattooed Grandmas. Ask the abandoned and desecrated Greek, Assyrian and Armenian churches. Ask the Euphrates. Ask Akhtamar. Ask Ani. Ask Ararat…

      Are all lives equal in Turkey? Do all people receive the same justice in Turkey. If so, then the world would be an ‘improved place.’

      Umit, you speak in generalities about peace, but your kind of ‘peace’ is false.
      I don’t write anything here out of hatred for Turks. I don’t feel hatred for a people who are ignorant of truth or who have been socialized to have amnesia for the past while glorifying a myth. I hate the deep, institutional denial of the truth that forces me to fight for justice or accept that 1.5 million Armenian lives were simply disposable. Or that my homeland and birthright can be taken from me and I have no right to claim it back. If I have no rights or recourse when I have been wronged, am I ‘equal.’ Do I have value?

      It is easy to say that all people are equal. But when a government can eliminate a people from their homeland through deportation, massacre and starvation, appropriate all the wealth and property left behind, and face no consequences for their heinous actions, what does this say about the value of human beings? What does your willingness to accept this as status quo say about you?

      Just because we are talking about something that happened a long time ago doesn’t mean it doesn’t still have an impact today. And just because you can’t see or feel this impact yourself, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Perhaps your vision is obscured.

      I don’t teach my children to hate, but I do teach them that it is their right to work for justice against a powerful enemy to make the world a better place for ALL people.

    • Amen to that Boyajian jan. Amen

    • Umit

      You might or might not know this but as a Turk or whatever you may be, you lack common sense or you intentionally act as someone truly confused who is raising kids with hatred and who is doing everything to deny. Do you want me to spell it for you?

      Ok. I will do that for you. TURKEY. You know “the sick man of Europe” And known as one country with the most human rights violations. Guess a country with such a nickname is absolutely a candidate to produre neo nazi like haters than Armenia. Dont you think?

      Get your facts straight

  36. One cannot reach very far with abnoxious language. It is like prerecorded messages. If you want to be listened or read you need to do same. If it does not matter anyway then write an article or a book about all you want to say. Because many of you are not in a conversation for sure.

    • Umit,

      You are trying to tell everyone how to behave or follow your personal philosophy that is why you are meeting resistance from us. This is a free world and everyone has his/her own ideas. On the one hand you seem to be a peaceful person, but on the other hand you are trying to force your ideas upon us. You are contradicting yourself-a peaceful person cannot be so forceful.

      Majority of us do not think that we need or want to reconcile with your country so this is out of question (note that we have no problem with individual Turks or with honorable Turks in general). All we want is justice and a return what was stolen from Armenians. We are not asking to give us more than what your country confiscated. Turkish citizens are living in Armenian houses and using their land for almost hundred years. How fair is that to kill 1.5 million Armenians, steal everything that those people created in 1000 years, destroy their culture and tell us get over it and reconcile?

  37. Depends what you want to achieve with self repetition or cursing to a group of people who neither denies the cruelties commited by criminals nor is giving up to fight against unjustice of the past and present. Without the support of the vast majority of normal Turkish people no good can be brought to the Armenians alone. If you were able to see how history is full of disinformation of the masses by making them enemy, showing them as targets and agitating attacks it is no wonder never ending wars against muslims, jews, christians, blacks, aborigins, gypsies just because they are born with that. A criminal does not have a religion or a nation unless you insist to see that way. That makes you no different than those. The good things in Turkey will be done by the young generation who needs to be won, not cursed at.

  38. Exactly, Sella. I have no hatred for individual Turks. But I do have strong objections to a government policy to deny the truth of my history and to prolong the suffering caused by the genocidal campaign of the Ottomans/CUP regime.

    Umit, I am sorry that you take offense to the straight-forward conversation here. I’m not sure what you are referring to as ‘abnoxious’ (obnoxious). Sometimes truth can be difficult to accept. Wishing that Armenians simply make nice with Turks is an unfair request. This struggle is about justice. Reconciliation is not the main goal, especially if it means that justice is compromised. But I gladly welcome a reconciliation that is based on restoring to the Armenian nation (and Greeks and Assyrians, etc.) what was violently and unlawfully wrenched from it. No policy can bring back the dead, but the descendants of the dead have rights to property and wealth and the government of Turkey is the party responsible for returning what was illegally obtained from its own citizens, the Ottoman Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, etc.

    Turkey has benefited from this theft for long enough. Nonetheless,100 years is a short time in the history of these ancient nations that built the culture Turks so proudly claim as their own today. We have not forgotten who we are or where we came from. Genocide did not kill our memory of where we belong.

    If this is ‘obnoxious’ to you, I am sorry. I am just trying to have an honest conversation with you. I don’t agree with or fully understand your view point, but I appreciate the fact that you are willing to share it.

  39. Boyajian, Sella:

    great retort to ‘peace loving’ Umit.
    the “obnoxious” label was most likely directed at me (or maybe our sister Gayane).

    if it was directed at me, Umit Yigit, then I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    • Boyajian jan and Sella jan. thank you for your beautiful rebuttals. I do believe Umit was directing his “abnoxious” comment at me, if thats the case then i say…. I am absolutely trilled. I did my job. It is always the puppets of the turkish govt who try pretend to be compassionate but the minute we catch their fake intentions, they all show their true colors. Including the dedicated turkish poster by the name of Umit.

      Umit my apologies if your intelligence has been tested and put on the spot but without such a test how would we know ones intentions on our pages? Now that we know you are a different type of denialist, i dont believe you deserve a conversation. A conversation with a denialist never bears fruit as we seen with such cases as Ragnar, john the turk, necati, etc. Again my apologies that some of us posts kosher for the denialists. That train left long time ago.

      Good day.

    • Gayane jan,

      Kariq chka shnorhakalutyun haytnelu: Yete uzum es tramadrutyund barzracnes u jamanak unes ditir sranq youtubum:-)

      Վարդան Պետրոսյանը ադրբեջանական թատրոնի մասին

      Վարդան Պետրոսյան. Հայկական հարսանիք

    • Sella jan… et clipnera verchnein..lol shat shat shat tsitsaxetsi… it was just out of this world..lol mersi dra hamar.. ;)

  40. Umit,

    I am curious about what other conserned Truks who are in the gray area in respect to the genocide recognition would use in order to land us on the wrong side.

    I gave you my reply regarding hatrate and Azeris and Turkish nationalists.

    You are a Turk, and from that vantage point you claiming Armenians are this or that does have significant rivalary and disagreement aspect to it. You may not do this deliberately, but you are using every means of humanitarian argument to claim that Armenian genocide is not to be focused on.

    This reminds me of another conserned Turkish citizen who argued Armenians didn’t live in Anatolia before 2300 years ago.

    But, you should know that your government is still carries out the same mentality as its Ottoman prodecessors, but hiding and denying their crimes and even by glorifying their leadership.

    Last but not least, the only way to neutralize the affects of history is to come in terms with it. Turkey has been dodging this for almost a century. And yes, we Armenians can not turn a blind eye on other’s sufferings, since WWI was a killing field which victimized Greeks and Assyrians within Anatolia as well. This means Turkey is denying the crimes against not only Armenians, but other natives within Ottoman empire.

  41. one thing is to be hurt another thing to turn out to crazy and be another mass killer. An Armenian abroad would find among all cultures in the world the Turks closest. By creating barriers you contribute only to assimilation to the distant lands you live now. From my heart all are welcome to Anatolian roots and live peacefully with people there as thousand year. But leave history as history, otherwise we have to reverse all people movements in history. Turks go back to Central Asia, White people in Americas go back to Europe and african americans to africa. If people lived normal immigration, free movement of people will normalize everything. I personalky believe Turkey became a miserable place in the past because of draining the resourceful people during the war. Look at Armenian talented peple with Turkish lastnames in France, USA and elsewhere. Look at famous architecture in Istnbul, composers of the most known Classical Turkish music or successful artists. People in Turkey knows this and noone gives credit to empty propaganda of the past. Because Not only Armenias were tyrranized in that geography.

    • “An Armenian abroad would find among all cultures in the world the Turks closest.”

      Several blunders in one sentence. There is no such a thing per se as genuinely “Turkish culture”. Turkish culture is an amalgamation of borrowed or stolen traits from the original cultures of the Persians, Arabs, Greeks, and Armenians. That’s being the reason why “Turkish culture” might be close to the Armenian one, not because “Turkish culture” exists independently and the Armenian one is the closest to it. In fact, the Armenian culture is closest to the Persian one: we have more common linguistic roots in our language, our historical intermingling goes as far back as the 1st millennium BC, we had several kings and nobles of Persian descent, and we have shared Zoroastrianism as religion before Armenians adopted Christianity as their official religion and Persians have become Muslims.

      “By creating barriers you contribute only to assimilation to the distant lands you live now.”

      The barrier is created by the Turkish governments that deny the fact of genocide of Armenians and are reluctant to repent for the crimes of their legal predecessors, the Ottomans.

      “From my heart all are welcome to Anatolian roots and live peacefully with people there as thousand year.”

      Armenians have no “Anatolian roots”. Armenians are indigenous people who have roots in Eastern Asia Minor and the Armenian Plateau. History knows no such a geographical toponym as “Anatolia”. The oppressors and the oppressed cannot, by definition, live peacefully as EQUALs. Armenians lived peacefully because they managed to adjust, but it doesn’t mean they were happy with being a miserable millet on their own lands.

      “Leave history as history, otherwise we have to reverse all people movements in history.”

      No one suggests reversing all peoples’ movements in history. But to acknowledge the crime is different from leaving history as history. In that case, Germans would just say “leave history as history” to the Jews; and the Americans would just say “leave history as history” to the Native Americans, and the Sudanese government would just say “leave history as history” to the Darfurians. There is history and there is legal responsibility for the crime.

      “Because not only Armenians were tyrannized in that geography.”

      Right. Also Greeks and Assyrians were tyrannized in that geography by the Turks. But Turks never extended apology for tyranny and genocidal extermination of these native Christian peoples. Because they are Turks. Not Germans. Not Americans. Not Russians. Turks.

    • A true denialist in action…Glad we cleared that one out very soon..

      No politeness and creating barriers by Diaspora is the same broken radio announcement that Turkish govt has been saying for many years against us… Diaspora is the biggest enemy of the Turkish govt and the Turkish denialists… Umit, you representing the Turkish govt are one of those denialists that will never get through your head what truely is happening in your beloved, sorry you know what govt…how they are turning world facts into Turkish facts…

      It is truly sad to see another biting the Turkish govt dust….

  42. Umit Yigit, no one here is a a crazy mass murderer. No one here is trying to create barriers.

    Today another Armenian, a school teacher, had his throat slashed in Istanbul…
    Two weeks ago it was Maritza Kucuk.
    Before that, it was Sevag Balikci.
    Before that, it was Hrant Dink.

    All murdered in beautiful, modern and democratic Turkey. All murdered because they were Armenian.

    Don’t forget about Gurgen Margaryan axed to death in Hungary by an Armenian hating Azeri. And so many more minorities, activists, journalists jailed or ‘silenced.’

    Besides telling Armenians to be polite and stop complaining about the past—-please tell me what you are willing to do to change the deep state policies which oppress and ‘silence’ minorities in Turkey. The Ottoman mindset that led to the genocide did not end; it has merely gone underground.

    Tell me, how much of your home and inheritance I can claim for my family before you object? Can I have one of your children? Can I change her name and raise her children as Armenian? Can I baptize her?

    Do you still not understand that being ‘polite’ only strengthens the oppressors? The real humanitarian stands up against oppression knowing it will eventually knock at your door?

  43. {“ From my heart all are welcome to Anatolian roots…”}
    Anatolian roots ? what is that ? we know of no so-called ‘Anatolian roots’.
    We are Armenian Highlanders.
    We have Armenian roots. 5000+ year old indigenous roots.
    What is this fake ‘Anatolia’ Turks keep throwing out to conceal the fact that they are nomadic invaders to Asia Minor.
    There is no such thing as ‘Anatolian roots’.
    There is no ‘Anatolian’ culture; no ‘Anatolian’ language; no ‘Anatolian’ alphabet.

    There is Armenian culture, language and alphabet.
    There is Greek culture, language and alphabet.
    There is Assyrian culture, language and alphabet.

    What alphabet are Turks using: care to tell us Turk ?
    What culture of Turks can you trace to Turks themselves: care to tell us Turk ?

    {“ But leave history as history,”}
    There you have it compatriots: the classic Denialist line.
    We Turks murdered, stole, looted, exterminated, confiscated.
    We Turks have successfully stolen your genes; your culture; your wealth; your land.
    After doing so, we invading Turks successfully exterminated the remaining 2 million, and chased the rest away from their ancestral homeland.
    (also about 2 million Greeks and Assyrians: 4 million native Christians wiped out)
    But hey: that was in the past. We Turks are ahead, so why not forget and forgive.
    Suuure, why not ?
    We Turks continue killing the members of the remaining 60,000 or so Armenians in Turkey (Hrant Dink, Sevag Balikci, Grandma Yaya, …)
    But hey: that was also in the past.

    And it gets better folks:

    {“ …draining the resourceful people during the war.”}
    That’s a new one I had not seen before: it was not Genocide – it was ‘draining of people’. If nothing else, Denialists are surely inventive.

    And we are painfully aware of many talented Armenians who have Turkish names. Perennial reminder to us Armenians what Turks did to us.

  44. I think everyone has personal responsibility to keep a normal view about life. I am sorry for everyone´s ancestors, yet have no tolerance for hate spreading propaganda. It has nothing to do with politeness.

    Those who chose to repeat the hate speech, Turkish or Armenian, will be isolated while the normal majority will build a safer future for their children. This will happen among people who can TALK together and LIVE together.

    • Umit,

      You keep enforcing your viewpoints on us. As I said we are all grown-ups with our personal philosophies and viewpoints you cannot enforce your ideas on us. If I was a Turk I would be a little bit humble when interacting with Armenians for a few very simple reasons.

      I do not know about your world, but in my world the crime should be punished not forgotten and not forgiven, and not… many other nots.

      The message we Armenians want to convey is a very simple message. Turkish government and Turkish people give back what you stole from Armenians and accept the crime of genocide that you committed. Where do you see hatred and massmurder propaganda or craziness in this message?

      Do not compare America with Turkey. America compensated the natives against whom they committed crimes which did not constitute genocide. Did Turkey compensate anyone Armenians, Assyrians, Pontiac Greeks anyone?

      BTW, did you know that in 1993 Turkey was about to invade Armenia? Which part of the history should we forget 1915, 1920, 1993, murdered Turkish Armenians, Taksim square or the current blockade of Armenia?

    • Umit,

      Roughly 65% of Turkey voted for right wing Islamist or right wing nationalist parties in the 2011 elections. And the Kurdish leader of the main left wing party- 25 percent of the vote- in Turkey, who is from Tunceli, gave Erdogan hell for his apology on the 1938 Dersim Massacre. There are no words… That brings us to 90%. BDP/Kurdish parties got 6.5% of the vote. That brings us to 96.5%. So…. you “majority of normal Turks” is a whopping 3.5% of the country then? I’m sure those 2.5 million normal Turks have a hugely important voice.

      Is their hate speech and anti-Turkish propaganda here? Well yeah, I suppose. But let’s keep it in context. On the one hand, hearing people say Turks are barbarians and savages angers me, but when I think about genocide perpetrators I think of barbarians and savages. Also, most Armenians in the US don’t really know a lot of Turks, but those they see with in the Turkish community- like Ergun Kirlikovali, are denialists. Most Turkish poster here and on the internet are xenophobic, hateful people that have been fed 10 times the propaganda these Armenians have. I was raised by denialist parents. I heard all the “stories”. You can preach about love and peace all day, it just doesn’t reflect reality. You say you are sorry for everyone’s ancestors.. what does that mean? Do you loose sleep over it? Are you actively trying to seek justice in any way you can for their murders? Are you trying to hold a criminal government accountable for their acts? I am sorry for the those who died in Somalia Civil War for example. I am sorry so many innocent people have died in Somalia, but truth be told, I can’t say I care that much. I believe you when you say you are sorry, I don’t think you give a damn though.

    • Umit,

      Would you care to share some specific instances where Armenians demonstrated hate speech anywhere in the globe, particulary in Armenia.. just like your brothers and sisters in Turkey or anywhere else..? The Armenians witnessed too many of such threats, hate speeches, and insults by the Turkish nationalists and denialists ..few that come to mind are… where a sign said all Armenians are bastards, that Armenians should sleep with one eye open because Turks are coming, or Armenians will be wiped out and the only place one can see an Armenian is in a museum.. you are here to preach US about normal view of life and living together and talk together?? what are you inhaling sir?

    • RVDV,

      Thank you. You are a man of dignity and sober mind.

  45. yes indeed: keep a normal view about life – we Armenians have been telling you Denialist Turks that very same thing for decades.

    in a normal Universe, if you murder someone, you go to jail.
    in an abnormal Denialist Turkic Universe if you murder someone and deny it for a few years…..you get a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card.

    in a normal Universe, you steal, you go to jail: if the stolen goods are recovered, they are returned to the owner.
    in an abnormal Denialist Turkic Universe, you steal, you get to keep the loot, and you get to accuse the victim of hate speech…..for demanding you, the thief, return his property.

    those who repeat hate speech – Denial of the Armenian Genocide – are isolated everywhere in the civilized world.
    while the normal Armenian majority works to build a safe future for their children, while working to keep Turks and their AzeriTurk buddies from committing another Armenian Genocide: so far the normal Armenian majority has succeeded spectacularly.
    while the hateful, abnormal Turk majority marches in the Taksim square – in 2012- by the 10s of thousands with signs that say:
    “All Armenians are bastards”.
    “Today Taksim, tomorrow Yerevan”.
    “We will bury you on Mt Agri (sic)”

    And normal Armenian majority in RoA, NKR, and Armenian Diaspora wants to live in peace, but wants to LIVE, and wants to live as Armenians: does not want be forcibly converted to Islam or murdered by Muslim Turks. If Armenians wanted to live amongst Muslim Turks, they would not emigrate to Christian Russia or Christian West: they would emigrate to Muslim Turkey, whose Turks are supposedly closest to Armenians than anybody else. (“An Armenian abroad would find among all cultures in the world the Turks closest.” : yeah, and I am an Uygur).

  46. As I wrote above, unfortunately some of the “jan”s (means same in Turkish) seems like to repeat preprinted same hate speech regardless of the subject.

    I asked you to be yourselves and think for yourselves. Many Turks and Armenians also grow up with the same brainwashing hate in their own way, but they manage to avoid fanaticism similar to yours. Young generation is distancing from hate fueling talk, they want to go on with their lives together with normal people with all colors.

    As a living person your number one responsibility is not to make other civilians lives turn into hell. You can discuss the facts, demands in a reasonable and democratic way, but as long as you have difficulty doing this you will find hardly anyone, Armenian, Turkish or any other world citizen, taking you serious.

    • Umit,

      You are not addressing anyone’s concerns or points, but are simply playing the same song over and over. I asked you simple question, but you did not bother to give yes or no answer.

      “The message we Armenians want to convey is a very simple message. Turkish government and Turkish people give back what you stole from Armenians and accept the crime of genocide that you committed. Where do you see hatred and massmurder propaganda or craziness in this message?”

      Normalization of relations between Armenia and Turkey is only possible with people like RVDV, not with people like you, Murat, John the Turk, Ahmet, Robert and Necati.

    • the definition of hate is you, Denialist Umit Yigit, denying the AG.
      yes, you are a Denialist: anyone who calls the Armenian GENOCIDE a, quote, ‘tragedy’, is a Denialist.

      as long as your State, Turkey, and Denialists like you turn the lives of the progeny of the Armenian Genocide survivors into Hell, we, the progeny of the survivors of the Armenian Genocide reserve the right to turn the lives all Denialists into Hell – and then some.

      Tell your Denialist friends.

    • {“Young generation is distancing from hate fueling talk…”}

      http://armenianweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/022612_taksim_bastards.jpg

      I guess the young generation Turk woman holding the sign that says
      “You are all Armenians, You are all bastards,” didn’t get your memo.

      they even have a member of the next young generation being taught how to ‘distancing from hate fueling talk.’

  47. RVDV has put it well. It is easy for anyone to talk about accepting everyone and acknowledging everyone’s suffering. It is quite another thing to care about or defend the rights of those who have been harmed or are being harmed. The first is an attitude of detached neutrality. The other is based on living and acting according to humanitarian principles. I know which type of person I would rather have as a neighbor.

    Umit Yigit, I have asked you many questions in my comments and you have largely chosen not to answer anything directly. One get’s the impression that you are not as open-minded or interested in dialogue as you may think you are. You seem primarily interested in telling Armenians that they are going about things in the wrong way.

    Maybe you are trying to promote a policy of ‘no problems with neighbors’ —like Davutoglu—but this adopted attitude doesn’t match reality. Turks cannot solve their problems with Armenians (and others) by insisting that everyone has suffered and therefore no one has suffered, one side cancelling out the other side, like an algebra equation. In reality, your nation, your ancestors, committed a crime against Armenians and humanity. In any ‘normal’ society, one would expect justice to be done. Yet the world failed to find justice for the Armenians. My people were severely wounded and still suffer to this day by the decision to eliminate us from our ancestral homeland. Turkey’s present policy toward Armenia continues to cause suffering. The economic viability and national security of the Armenians is at risk in no small measure due to what your nation has done and refuses to take responsibility for.

  48. You are all good people with some wrong attitude when it comes to express your views. If you want to progress with your ideas you have to stop shouting into dark like some crazy people, but take as individuals you are conversing with. The questions you complain I do not answer are some ridiculous and some based your lack of knowledge about what you are accusing. I am not historian, but am not denying the sufferings of the landscape i was born into. In the same time I choose not to curse at living persons for times even their parents were not born. In Anatolia there is a huge problem with blood feuds still, where rivalising families kill others as eye for an eye principle. Is it that kind of world tou want to live in? I dont.

  49. Umit,

    By carefully reading your comments I can desifer your mentality. It is equal and maybe even worse than some nationalist Turks.
    The humanitarian Arguments you make is meant to diminize Armenians rather than promot peace. You think one sided and undermind our side.

    The most just approach towards reconsiliation is for the victimizer’s nation to take step forward. However, that hasn’t happened from Turkish government and continues to be so. And Germany did their part to make peace with Isreal and jews for crime that took place decades later than Armenian/Greek/Assyrian genocides.

    I think your main goal is to confuse us and make us feel guilty. You are ethnocentric and don’t want to blame anything on your country.
    And yet,
    Turkey is not Democtratic.
    Turkey is opperessing its minority citizens
    Turkey is keeping secrets about true history not to be accountable
    Turkey’s citizens are expected not to insult Turkishness, which means a lot more than just the words.
    Turkey has changed name of many historic places from their original to Turkish names.
    Turkish government has abandoned many Armenian historic sites to earase us from our native lands. Ani is one example which is crumbling. It riveled constantinople in middle ages. Today it is a ruin.

    These are not central asian stories and facts, they are about Turkey/Anatolia/Ankara/Istanbul today.

  50. How often Armenians are scolded by other Armenians and by Turks for being unwilling to engage in dialogue with Turks. Yet here several of us are trying to do just that and we get this:

    “If you want to progress with your ideas you have to stop shouting into dark like some crazy people.”

    Very true…it is very dark.

    • it has been shown that mentally unstable people think of themselves as being normal, and everybody else being crazy.

      I think if a neutral observer were to read the chain of posts from our Turkish guest Umit Yigit, and the replies from several different Armenians of richly varying personalities, it would be obvious who is the one who is truly crazy.

    • I agree with Avery..

      When one is not right in their head, they think everyone else is crazy… when one is uneducated, one blames others for not getting what they are saying or unable to engage in a dialogue. when one is full of hate, one always lables us as the Armenians who spread hate speech… this is how a denialists get out of their sorry world of confusion, denial and darkness.

      they believe that preaching empty and unrelated stories somehow the history will change the tide and become a reality.. but they don’t realize, that they are not dealing with peoplel like them.. it is unfortunate how detached Umit is from reality but then I am not surprised.

  51. Umit Yigit, there is no one here proposing an eye for an eye. Not even suggesting to harm one hair on any Turk. Please show me what has led you to make such an insulting comment.

  52. Mr Boyajian, I am happy you are thinking the same page about not harming anyones single hair, and I would add to that saying that may Turkish and Armenian people work for each others peace and prosperity until the end of the world. I hope that it is not an empty wish and we all have responsibility to leave everyones children a better world, not more mess. The governments do not survive long without the people support as long as people learn to think of for themselves.

    • As long as we have people with your mentality Umit, unfortunately no Armenian will be safe and be able to live and work for each other’s peace and proseprity until the end of the world…as you put it.

      Sorry to burst your bubble sir.. until you understand and truly digest what is going on in your govt and your nation (as you said…. the govt is fed through people and you have majority of the turkish nation who arestill ignorant and unwilling to break the denial chains), i don’t see any peace with us or any other country.. just an fyi.

  53. Mr Boyajian, I am happy you are thinking the same about not harming anyones single hair, and I would add to that saying that may Turkish and Armenian people work for each others peace and prosperity until the end of the world. But when you read the posts one gets naturally upset about extremist ideas. I hope that it is not an empty wish to strive for peace. we all have responsibility to leave everyones children a better world, not more mess. The governments do not survive long without the support of positively involved people. Incredibly many people learn to think for themselves and good things will happen by cooperating with people, not antagonizing.

  54. Humanity is a mess. We live in a world where ‘might is right’. ‘To the victor go the spoils!’ You can speak about peace and creating a better world for our children, but as long as you accept the status quo where known genocide deniers face no consequence for their crimes, then we have doomed our children to history repeating itself. Don’t bury your head.

  55. As I said previously, every individual is responsible for his or her own actions. Those who are hostile will attract more hostility towards themselves and those who will work for a better life for Armenians and Turks will attract more friendship. None of us here is, at least not me, representing any specific group, army, ottoman ancestory, nation, government or similar.

  56. Umit Yigit, it is so sad to me to think that you have been socialized to view the expression of righteous anger by Armenians as hostility, while tolerating the long-standing societal hostility against Armenians and other non-Turkish minorites in Turkey. I have witnessed this many times in Turks. Such limited capacity to empathize with what we have lost. It doesn’t surprise me, but it does discourage me with regard to the possibility for useful dialogue or meaningful friendshhip.

    I wonder if you can put yourself in the situation of an Armenian who lives with the reality that their ancestors were murdered, their inheritance stolen, their history ignored, while Turkey flourishes and distorts the truth. When you have lost so much and you’re surrounded by a world that seems unmoved by the injustice of your situation, would it not make you anger? Isn’t such anger simply human nature? Is anger bad? Or is it a God-given emotion that signals to us the need to take action? Is all anger hostile or can it be honorable? Should injustice not evoke emotion?

    I know you will ignore my questions, but I need to demonstrate how differently we see the world, and why your criticisms and accusations simply miss the point. Everyone suffers, this is true. Many people die on all sides during a war. But does this mean that we should ignore the overt and intentional suffering imposed upon Ottoman Christians by Turkey? Should we turn a blind-eye to the imbalance that exists between our two nations that resulted in large part from the effects of the genocide and now defunct treaties between defunct nations? Or is it the responsibility of humane people to ‘choose’ to act to restore justice.

  57. Here is an interview, I read today, she is saying hundred times better than what I tried to explain.

    http://www.armradio.am/en/2013/01/19/new-film-explores-genocide-turkish-armenian-relations/

  58. Mr Boyajian I do not ignore what you write. I carefully read everything written here and respond to. I do not find it acceptable bashing any nationality. Without anger no engagement can be created, but use your anger to change the unacceptble situation of today. Improve Armenian and Turkish relations. Serbs got angry to Ottoman oppressors and massacered their own muslims. This goes nowhere. Instead of Ottomans, look at the life of all people, regardless of religion, in Turkey. Turkey and Armenia will be a better country to live in by everyone. This can be only done by dialogue.. Anger with intelligence and good purposes, please.

    • Umit,

      I can imagine how good you felt after you read what Sona Tatoyan had to say.

      I can only say that she can speak only for herself, and that her ideas are not shared by majority Armenians in Armenia or Diaspora and for a good reason.

    • Umit.. you are like a professor giving a lecture to a class who are absolutely 10 steps ahead in the lesson and after listening to you, stop, scratch its head, and tries its hardest to what you are trying to do here….

      What you are saying will ONLY makes sense IF the person who is preaching knowswhat they are preaching about and TO WHO. In your case, unfortunately nothing makes sense..

      How nice of you to ask us to forget and play nice… that will definintely help your cause would not it? but guess what? spreading fake intentions… fake beliefs, fake dreams, fake suggestions won’t go far.. .. that is just my honest opinion..

  59. Umit Yigit, is this not a dialogue with good purposes? I thought it was.

    I, and most who write here, don’t ‘bash’ Turkey as a nationality. We criticize unjust and inhumane actions, unwillingness to face the truth, and the distortion and disconnection that result from that.

    I understand your point: You want everyone to treat each other with respect and look to the future with an attitude of doing what is right for everyone, especially leaving the world a better place for our children. Is this correct? It is a good sentiment. We should all think this way.

    But doesn’t this strike you as ironic? Is it respectful for Turks to benefit from all that they took from Armenians (and other Ottoman Christians) and then tell Armenians to let go of their pain and remember that we are all ‘Anatolians?’ Metaphorically speaking, it is as if Turkey sits in my grandmother’s parlor sipping coffee from her china cups and, smiling sweetly, hands me bitter tea in a tin cup and asks if I would like more sugar.

    No thank you. No amount of ‘sugar’ can make me forget the bitter taste of the injustice and disparity between us. Not because I am unforgiving, but because I cannot forget.

    Between forgiving and forgetting, I think it is ‘forgetting’ that is harder. Our grandparent’s suffering is part of our memory of them. It is part of our knowledge of who we are and where we come from. We are here, everywhere and anywhere, but not there, because of what Turkey did. We live because our grandparents survived the cruelest journey, one that many others perished on. We are their children, charged with carrying on their legacy, but have been dispossessed of most of our inheritance. Except for the memories.

    Don’t ask us to forget. Don’t allow yourself to forget or your nation to pretend not to know. Is it not our shared ‘Anatolian’ history? It is not necessary for Armenians to forget to begin to forgive. But it is necessary for Turkey to do its part to embrace the truth and offer a just response, and for the first time since the genocide, offer Armenians and Turks a chance to create new memories based on mutual respect. Can ‘great’ Turkey become ‘good’ Turkey. That is the challenge.

    I read the article about Sona Tatoyan and the film she is producing. I admire her wish to reconcile with Turkey. I hope it will help the dialogue. I hope it touches hearts. But I disagree with her characterization of Armenians as finding consolation in constant victimhood. Constant justice-seeking is not the same as constant victimhood. The majority of Armenians I know are the descendants of genocide survivors who recreated their lives from nothing in foreign lands with foreign languages. They built homes and churches, started farms and businesses, sent their children to university and encouraged them to contribute to the arts and sciences of their adopted countries (Sona is one of these). All of these things are positive and productive activities and not consistent with consoling oneself with constant victimhood.

    The fact that Armenians cannot so easily forget what was violently stolen from them reflects their deep connection to the land you call Anatolia and we call the Armenian Highlands. It is not the first time I have come across an Armenian who denigrates or feels ashamed of those who pursue justice. It is a painful journey to come to terms with the truth that you and your history are disposable to most of the world. For some it is easier to find consolation in the warmth of friendly Turkish shopkeepers who admire one’s eyes and welcome you as family. I wish Sona well on her journey.

    The saying that Sona’s film is based on comes from a traditional way to close Armenian folktales. “Three apples fell from Heaven; one for the story teller, one for the listener, and one for him who takes it to heart.” My hope is that we all, you, me, Sona and all Armenians and Turks take the story of the Armenian genocide to heart and begin a journey toward justice based on fully embracing the truth of the role we have played in each others lives. This may not make us family, but it will certainly help us to become respectful neighbors.

  60. Mr. Boyajian, I can assure you that I do not think any different than your comments in latest post. I would never either ask anybody to forget or forgive the crimes of the past. I think all will meet at a middle honorable point, Turks will be educated so they can understand what has happened, which is more important than why it happened. Armenians wil learn to communicate with normal Turks without loosing their credibility. I do believe there is a good amount of constructive work is waiting for both to keep the dialogue channels open and solve whatever can be solved without loosing each other. There are Germans and there are Nazis, even today.. And we should all know the difference. Many Turks express the same views you have and fight against bigotry in many areas daily. Many Turks are oppressed by archaism in every possible area you can think of. So my answer to you is be with humanly thinking people to build a better future for everyone. That is what I will do. I fight fiercely with deniers but with revenge thirsty people as well.

  61. To be fair, the Radikal interview about Sona Tatoyan and her film ‘Three Apples Fell from Heaven,” which Umit Yigit posted a link to above, may have misrepresented her words to present a view more palatable to the Turkish audience. If so, I apologize if I was too quick to critique her alleged comments. I have read several articles on the project and watched her civil.net interview with Salpi Ghazarian and she never makes a statement like “Armenians need to forget the genocide” or accuses Armenians of consoling themselves with ‘constant victimization,” in any of them but the Radikal article.

  62. It is unfortunate that it takes a huge amount of time until comments are published, but I cannot complain.. at least it is not censored, as I experienced in some Turkish newspapers I post about this topic:) . But peace is not easy without fighting in all fronts.

    I think Tatoyan is very honest about expressing her real feelings, but unlike me she is an artist and is better putting words to it. She simply does not let pain ruin rest of her life. She is conscious about what she is and where she comes from. I admire her and wish I could do the same in all other unrelated matters.

    I find it extremely saddening to see some of us lost hope so much that they let some crazy Gestapolike people ruin all possibilities forever. What I know is earth we were born were the same, music is the same, food is the same, the feelings is the same. We can relate to Armenians emotionally but sad that many is too hurt to respond to, With all respect . I find it that it should not be a eternal curse that none of us can embrace and find each other again. If we dont, then evil has done his job is still doing it.

    • Umit Yigit, I am not too hurt to relate to you or any other Turk. I could easily befriend a Turk with an open mind and honest heart. No problem. But no friend would tell me that I am letting pain ruin my life just because I desire justice for my ancestors.

  63. Ancestors RIP, dangerous injustice is done today towards future generations by not engaging in peace between Anatolian peoples. Only that we can change by doing something.

    The interview with S Tatoyan was done by Radikal newspaper journalist Ezgi Basaran and published January 14th. http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetayV3&ArticleID=1116688&CategoryID=77

  64. Dangerous injustice is done towards future generations of Armenians by engaging in the vile activity of AG Denial.

    There is no such thing as ‘Anatolian peoples’.
    There is no ‘Anatolian’ culture; no ‘Anatolian’ language; no ‘Anatolian’ alphabet.
    There is Armenian culture, language and alphabet.
    There is Greek culture, language and alphabet.
    There is Assyrian culture, language and alphabet.

    [Turkey Continues to Violate Armenians’ Rights, Says Zarakolu]
    http://asbarez.com/107794/turkey-continues-to-violate-armenians%E2%80%99-rights-says-zarakolu/

    {““Armenia did its utmost to normalize the relations with Turkey, it was impossible to make more concessions,” Turkish publisher Ragip Zarakolu said”}

    {““There is a thick folder with the sins Turkey has committed against the Armenian people. Instead of redeeming the sins of the past, Turkey continues to violate the rights of the Armenian people,” said Zarakolu. “The Pan-Turkic positions are still strong in my country, and they affect the Armenian-Turkish relations.””}

    {“Instead of redeeming the sins of the past, Turkey is trying to interfere with the Karabakh issue and impose its position. What’s interesting is that by supporting Azerbaijan, Turkey is attempting to become a party in an issue it has nothing to do with and raise the Karabakh issue in international structures with a view of pressuring the right of the people of Artsakh to self-determination. At the same time Turkey wants to deprive Armenia of the right to interfere with the Karabakh settlement process. This is a vivid example of Turkey’s double-faced policy,” added Zarakolu.”}

    • Thank you Avery for the post.

      I doubt Umit will understand…. it seems like what is being said is taken very lightly and he continues to push his beliefs on us.. in my opinion, this is another lost case…. just sad…

    • Գայանե.

      եթե նա ուզում է իր էշը համառորեն քշի, իմ էշը շատ ավելի համառ է եւ պատրաստված (…համ էլ կրթված):
      տեսնենք ով ավելի շուտ նադայել կլինի:

      Been there, done that.

    • That is what I love about you Avery .. sharunaki.. yes el follow kanem qo ..always…. :)

  65. Mr Boyajian, to follow up your point about Taoyan interview, you are right. There is an important translation error in the Armenian link, in original interview in Turkish, S Tatoyan in Radikal says making peace with people does not mean forgetting genocide, Hope it is the only one,

    “Asıl anlamaları gereken Anadolu’yla, Türklerle barışmak demek, soykırımı unutmak, Türkiye devletinin inkâr politikasını onaylamak değil”

  66. Why do Turks who seemingly promote peace between Armenians and Turks so often criticize the Armenian approach but offer very little critique of their own?
    Does it not even occur to you that seeking justice is not the same as being revenge thirsty? Could it possibly be that the long suppressed guilt of the Turkish nation distorts your ability to respond with empathy instead of defensiveness and fear?

    We are not seeking Turkish blood. The only pain I want Turkey to feel is the pain of guilt that leads it to finally repent and ask for forgiveness and do what is right. You will be surprised how many Armenians are willing to forgive in response to a substantive, quantitative, and qualitative action on the part of Turkey.

    I thank you for courageously challenging deniers.

  67. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 23, 2013 at 12:44 pm // Reply

    I see you both speak and write perfect Armenian…Avery and Gayane..
    thence i shall continue only this bit in armenian(Eastern) .I can also do so in Western Armenian, as have lived with my father´s western,read over 25 yrs Western armenian newspapers etc., and hundreds of books,that dialect–
    Ցաւոք ուշ մուտք գործեցի ձեր վերոնշեալ խոսկցութեանց մէջ,սակայն ինձ շատ է հետաքրքիր ինչ ԻՇԱԲԱՆՈՒԹԵԱՆ մասին է գրում սիրելի Աւէրին….
    Ասպարէզ թերթին էլ ակնարկ կայ…այս վերջինում Սարաքոգլուի այն արտահայտութեան որ (Հայաստանը տարածաշրջանի Կուպան է…
    Ես անմիջապէս ուղղեցի իրեն, Հայաստանը տարածաշրջանի ՇՒԷՑԱՐԵԱՆ է…..
    ես շատ հաւատք չեմ ընծայում թուրք Այսպէս կոչւած մտաւորականներին …նոքա միփտ Թուրք են մնում եւ ի վերջոյ այդ հասկանալի է ԻՐԷՆՑ ԵՐԿԻՐՆ են պաշտպանում ,այնտեղ էլ ապրում:

    • Mr. Palandjian..

      Averin xosum er Umiti masin vor inqa ira eshna qshum ira hoqnats patmutyunnerov.. u Averin shat chista anum vor ha iran lav patasxanuma.. yes el et dzevi.. chpiti toxnenq debil u unpuyt martik vor irantsits yesim inch en nerkayastnum gan u xarnem mer patmutyunna..

      Huysov em mi dzevov haskatsreti te inch er uzum asats liner mer Averin..

      With much respect

      Gayane

  68. Mr. Boyajian,

    I do not call those who you call “Turks” my own, because there are many Turks I have little in common, as some of the Armenians broadcasting here is perhaps little in common with you as well. I do not associate with racist Armenians as well as racist Turks.

    Many people here seems to repeat cliches for themselves without even having intention to have a counterparty. People deal with people and go into a dialogue if they want to make peace. If not, people live with constant enemity/racism and oppress or go to war whenever the situation is convenient.

    Anyway we departed from the original topic, I think if you make a documentary detailing a child rape it is extremely cruel, disgusting and very disturbing. I hope this is not a school material.

  69. The reality is, Turkey and Turks OWE the Armenians a huge degree of thanks and gratitude. Do not forget – for a thousand years, we worked on behalf of the sultans and their viziers….we built their mosques, turbes, bridges, palaces, roads and fountains. We fed your armies and your people. We clothed your soldiers. We made your guns and your bullets. We wrote your music – both classical and folk. We composed your poetry. We brought you opera, theater, photography and printing. We were more Anatolian than you – because we were there first, for thousands of years – and you know this! And then….a few criminals decided to steal everything for themselves…they decimated Armenians and inflicted massive pain and sufffering on the Turkish people, as well. When will you wake up? When will you open your eyes? When will you see? They pointed the finger at us so you would not look at them and their misdeeds. They lied to protect themselves….and they died with the lies still on their lips. When will you listen and hear those lies? When will you accept the truth and offer justice?

    • Dear Karekin,

      You forgot to add Inventor of the Turkish Alphabets, Hagop Martayan,
      where Turks are so proud of them.

  70. Umit Yigit, I address you by your full name because I don’t know if you are a male or a female; therefore no pronouns. I myself am a woman; therefore please don’t call me Mr.

    As a woman I am deeply moved by this documentary because it brings to light some of the worst effects of the genocide: the forced degradation of Armenian woman by Turks and Kurds. So many of these women lived their lives in silent shame, deprived of death’s rescue. For them, the genocide never ended. The documentary I am sure is not intended for school children. But we adults should be strong for these women, our grandmothers; strong enough to hold their stories in our hearts and restore their dignity by doing so. They were the scapegoats that allowed us a future.

  71. {“I think if you make a documentary detailing a child rape it is extremely cruel, disgusting and very disturbing”}

    the mind of a delusional denialist on full display here: the vicious, disgusting, nomadic savage, dehumanizing, barbaric, criminal rape of a child – actually rape and sexual degradation of 10s of thousands of Armenian children – is not cruel, or disgusting, or very disturbing in the denialist’s disturbed mind.

    No: it is documenting the crime and demanding justice for the crime that is apparently disturbing in the upside-down world of Denialist Turks.

    Sick, disgusting, savage, Anti-Armenian hatemongering neo-fascists.
    Unrepentant apologists for child rapists.
    Gestapo trench-coat wearing sickos.

    • Shat hamamit em qo het Avery..

      He speaks of cruelty and disgust about such true story that Armenian children, and women went through during all the massacres and Genocide Turks committed on us….. yet he conveniently refuses to admit or conveniently omits/forgets that the Ottomans, the nomad tribes that they were, who desended upon our people did JUST that and million times worst and now the current Turkey/Turkish govt is enjoying the fruit of their rape, murders, looting, and trying to erase anything Armenian.. how convenient for you Umit… right?

      You are such a fake peace lover… again sorry for not being kosher for you but hey.. i am not here to please you or any denialist on these pages.. all i am here for is to point out among many of my distiguished collegues here how much filth and denial come out of Turkish posters..

      Good day sir or madam

      P.S. Also, i would refrain from addressing people if you don’t know if they are male or female.. as you are doing with Boyajian.. just a thought…

    • Unless Turks come to terms with their history, they have little chance of addressing the inverted moral judgement and split personality that exists in their culture. One face attempts to appear modern, humane, hospitable, international, secular, urbane, etc., while the other face suffers from fanaticism, grandiosity, intolerance and meglomania. Public appearance is everything, personal foibles are denied, and anything that ‘insults Turkishness’ is punished or shunned.

      Ala Erdogan: “It is not possible for Turkey to commit genocide!”

      Ala Samast: “Bang!”

    • I think what he meant was that if you make a documentary about child rape, it will be a cruel, disturbing documentary. And for that reason, I think he meant that he hopes it will not be shown in schools.

  72. Ms Boyajian, my apologies and may all those innocent women who suffered go to heaven and those criminals burn in hell eternally whatever religion they belong to.

    • Umit.. i would recommend you stop pretending you understand the pain and you want those burn in hell forever. If you argue against justice and call those of us who are after justice crazy, hate filled sickos will never have the heart to truly feel what Armenians went through.

      So I would suggest you save your “want peace and love” lecture for someone who is buying it…

      Sorry to be blunt and upfront but you are no better than another Denialist that we come arcoss these pages day in and out.

      Peace and Love

      G

    • I am not at all interested in who goes to hell or for how long they burn. I leave vengeance to God. But justice is something God gave humans the intelligence to manage through the knowledge of right and wrong and the application of laws. All I care about is that the nation that benefited from genocide finally admit their crime and make a just restitution to Armenia.

  73. Ms Boyajian, to follow up your point about Taoyan interview, you are right. There is an important translation error in the Armenian link, in original interview in Turkish, S Tatoyan in Radikal says making peace with people does not mean forgetting genocide. Hope it is the only error.

    “Asıl anlamaları gereken Anadolu’yla, Türklerle barışmak demek, soykırımı unutmak, Türkiye devletinin inkâr politikasını onaylamak değil”

  74. Պ. Փալանջիան.

    Եթե դուք կարդաք Թուրք Ումիտին գրածները վերեն վար, կտեսնաք որ նույն բաները կը կրկնե.
    Այն հոս չե եկած բան մը սորվելու կամ միտք փոխանակելու, այլ Թուրք նենգամիտ քարոզչություն ընելու.

    Հայաստանցիներս կսենք “իր էշնե քշում”. (այսինքն, ինչ ըսես չսես, իր քարոզչությունը առանց բան մը փոխելու իշու զռռալու նման կը կրկնե)

    Անանկ է նե, ես ավելի համառ եւ խելացի էշ ունիմ.
    Նայինք ով ավելի կանուխ պիտ հոգնի.

  75. While treacherous denialists are working diligently to convince good hearted, trusting Armenians to sit around a campfire, hold hands and sing Kumbaya, the ‘Anatolian peoples’ continue murdering and savagely beating up defenseless old Armenian women – just like in 1915.

    http://www.todayszaman.com/news-304929-armenian-woman-assaulted-by-masked-man-in-istanbul.html

    { A 80-year-old Armenian woman, Sultan Aykar, was assaulted on Tuesday by a masked man in the neighborhood of Samatya, on İstanbul’s historical peninsula, where several other attacks targeting elderly Armenian women have taken place over the past few years}

    (kudos to TodyasZaman for exposing the savagery of the ‘Anatolian peoples’)

    • WOW.. this is absolutely heartbreaking and absolutely savage.

      But Umit believes otherwise about his or her beloved Turkey and Turkish extremists because there is no drop of hate, denial, aggression, and murderor mentality in Turkey.

      SO where is the peace and love Umit? I think if and when it comes to the core of the matter, someone like you will never have the balls to scream, to preach peace and love to these bastards because it is ok if they raise their hands on elderly women like this right? But it is not ok for Armenian to want justice and we are not even threatening anyone to do bodily harm like some in Turkey or outside of Turkey.

      Sick.. absolutely sick.

    • Time for concerned Turks to focus on their own society’s attitudes about Armenians. Umit Yigit, what do you have to say about the animals who attack old Armenian women?

  76. The same wombs that were violated and degraded brought forth the next generations. How do we forget the pain in which we were incubated? How cruel and insensitive to suggest that Armenians wallow too much on this pain? How ignorant and blind of Turks to not see their responsibility to honestly face this pain and help ameliorate it? How despicable that old Armenian women in Istanbul must fear for their safety in an atmosphere where ultra-nationalists boldly carry out anti-Armenian hate crimes? How dishonest of Turkey to seek return of antiquities housed in foreign museums as if they have any legitimate right to the cultural artifacts of Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians? How shameful that Hrant Dink’s murder conspirators have not been punished? How morally bankrupt are Turkey’s leaders? How much longer before Turkey is made to pay?

    • avatar Umit Yigit // January 24, 2013 at 2:06 am //

      I understand your sensitivity about reading criminal news in Turkey if ethnicity is Armenian. but again back to same topic if i have a special interest for adopting murderers and calling them my own people. To call such people animal is insult to animals.

      but once again clearly:
      1) Why should I defend criminals who did it 2) Why should i concern about ethnicity of the murderer or the murdered, unless i know for sure that racist mobs are behind. I would react no different if she was killed by an armenian 3) if you read the amount of crimes in a country of 80 million population you will be overwhelmed. I dont do it anymore, or at least avoid as much as possible.

      hrant and his murder is a seperate chapter. he is the symbol for our hopes and efforts for bringing people together. I also got angry when a turkish family burned in their home by neonazis in Germany too, without thinking a moment like “ah these germans they are all nazis”.

    • Umit, I wasn’t asking you to defend those who attack old women, nor did I think you would. Just curious to know your thoughts. It seems you have a reflex to down play the crime and bury it under the heading of ‘typical crimes in a country of 80 million people.’ This is similar to your reflex to bury the genocide of the Armenians under the heading ‘We mourn all people who died in WWI.’ Can you see your pattern?

      Is it really probable, given random chance, that four old Armenian women are attacked in a matter of a few short months, two in the last 24 hours? I don’t think so. The crime is clear. The criminals and their motive are not. Is it to intimidate Armenians. Is it to incite them? Is it to drive them out of Istanbul or Turkey? And what are good, peace-loving Turks willing to do to protect their Armenian neighbors? How many more old Armenian women need to be hurt?

      There is a virus of violent oppression and denial in your society that can only be cured when good people expose the evil and the evil-doers and demand that they be punished. Or are old Armenian women still disposable giavurs after 100 years?

  77. avatar john the turk // January 24, 2013 at 3:58 am // Reply

    I very much doubt Turkey owes anything to Armenians to make a payment. Please also do not jump on the extreme nationalists to blame before these Killer(s) are caught and brought to Justice

  78. {“I think what he meant was that if you make a documentary about child rape, it will be a cruel, disturbing documentary.”}

    RVDV:

    Sorry, I disagree. Based on this individual’s first post, and the obfuscating language of subsequent posts to describe the AG, I stand by my interpretation.
    Here is this individual’s first post in this chain:

    {“ Umit Yigit January 5, 2013 This sad film, in my opinion, does not contribute to reconciliation between Armenian and Turkish people.
    It is extremely important that stories about the World War I are told to future generations without fueling racial haterate.
    May all 20 million who lost their lives during WWI rest in peace, for all nations, including Armenians.”}

    It is clear that this individual has an agenda to sweep anything having to do with the AG under the rug: out of sight, out of mind.
    Dilute the specificity of the crime of AG into the larger tragedy of WW1: one of the classic denialist tactics.

    • I also disagree with RVDV…

      If you carefully read Umit’s comments, you can tell the progression of the denialism…. Umit’s comments were not to express how it can be disturbing for children if they saw the movie.. No no no. It was clearly an agenda to dilute the facts and create confusion..

      So please spare me translating what he meant because we have dealt with such individuals way too many times and can read and understand the underlying messages no matter how much sugar is sprinkled on them.

      Peace

    • For many denialists, the events of 1915, as they would call it, fall into a category of “bad things happen in war.” While it is true that bad things happen in war, genocide is far too well organized and calculated to be summed up with the mentality of “things happen.” If this is what you believe, and I think it is what Umit believes, it can be easy to talk about reconciliation. For him and people like him, the “tragedy” that unfolded (randomly, apparently) was just something that happens in war. People don’t go apologizing for every bad thing they’ve ever done to each other, so in the mind of a denialist- there is no need to apologize even if you are sorry for the loss of life. To say someone has an agenda, to me, implies that they know and understand the truth of the matter yet CHOOSE to try and dilute the issue and sweep it under the rug. Misinformed, blinded by misinformation, and a lack of fully understand what genocide really is and what can be qualified under it (I believe the Holocaust has set the bar impossibly high) can explain the behavior of denialists of these pages. I don’t believe in an agenda,

    • It will be very unlikely that Umit has no idea about what Genocide truly means.. he is not living in the Ottoman Era not to use his brain and do research and talk to others…

      He is choosing to be presented as such… he is choosing to write the words he is using. No one is pressuring him or forcing him.. and his words displays a typical denialist.

      I speak of the agenda that is in Umit’s head.. I am not saying he has an agenda which will be executed as if it was a written rule or it will change millions of minds..

      His agenda intentional or otherwise is to PUSH his broken knowledge and diluted data on us,…to come off as someone who cares and loves peace when he is the one who is calling those after justice crazy, hate filled sickos that is ruining our future generations…he is telling us… the descendents of those his ancestors murdered in cold blood.

      I refuse to believe that he is not aware of what Genocide truely means..

      Just my opinion.

      G

  79. When I read RVDV’s subtitling what I wanted to say, I understood that there is always a better way of expressing what we intend to say. It is also a language issue but mostly a talent. Thank you.

    Using analogy, imagine if we knew how to talk with others when we want to convey a message.

    • Umit..

      Your English is better than many denialists we encounter so using language as an issue is simply comical ..

      You know, and we know what exactly you were trying to do.

      Peace and love

      G

  80. I dont downplay or say that it is random crime. But you pick up Armenian examples with a pinsett among thousands of horrible crime cases. And how about other hundreds of it doesnt matter the ethnicity but ok, lets say Turkish women who are murdered, forced to marriage, killed because wanted divorce or “dishonored” their socaled family? etc. The problem I see with you people is you define yourselves first as Armenian instead of woman or care if the victim is Armenian. And thats why you handpick your stories. I condemn all violence, without downplaying if it is to an Armenian. Why should I? Why should normal people?

    • Strangely enough, when an Armenian in Istanbul killed both his siter and her Turkish groom at their wedding, in a rage of ethnic hate, honor killing, there was no mention at all on these pages.

      Umit bey, you are preaching to the wrong people, many like you have passed through here, not being able to leave a mark, but keep trying.

  81. First, let me say I do not normaly reply to any sarcastic and aggresively formulated posts. It is not my job to educate people how to think. What I find too often here is destructive formulations, labels and some of you write too often here things which I never said, but you assume out of your prejuidices. I dont bother to defend myself if someone calls me something that I am not.

    For those who wish me peace and love geniunely, I wish them ten times back.

  82. {“What I find too often here is destructive formulations, labels and some of you write too often here things which I never said, but you assume out of your prejuidices.”}

    ‘Destructive formulations, labels….’

    Let me see:

    We are called ‘racists’ (Jan 5, 2013)
    We are called ‘hateful people’ (Jan 6, 2013)
    We are called ‘agitators’ (Jan 7, 2013)
    We are a ‘bigotry chorus’ (Jan 8, 2013)
    We are supposedly raising ‘hatefully growing Armenian children ‘ (Jan 8, 2013)
    We ‘lack human perspective’ (Jan 9, 2013).
    We are no different than criminals who have no religion or nation (Jan 10, 2013)
    We are ‘crazy’ and potential ‘mass killer’ (Jan 11, 2013)
    We are engaged in ‘hate spreading propaganda’ and repeat ‘hate speech’ (Jan 12, 2013)
    We ‘repeat preprinted same hate speech regardless of the subject’ and we are fanatics. (Jan 13, 2013)
    We are ‘shouting in the dark like crazy people’ (Jan 14, 2013)
    We are ‘crazy Gestapolike people’ (Jan 22, 2013)

    Nope: those are definitely not formulations nor labels.
    Of course not. And we all know the Earth is flat.

    Question to any Psychologists out there: are we dealing with a case of the classic psychological condition called Transference here ?

    • SIGNED, SEALED AND DELIVERED.

      Apres Avery jan..

    • Avery, I believe you are thinking of projection, where unwanted emotions and thoughts are ‘projected’ outward and seen as originating from a source outside of self. This is often a component of paranoia. Transference is a more specific form of projection involving a client and the therapist.

  83. This will be a long painful process for some Turks to understand the reality of Armenian Nation in Asia Minor, and their Genocide, who used to live in their ancestral home land for centuries. A day will come when Turks will recognize the indigenous people of Turkey. This is the only way, that Turks can get out of dark period, restart and rewrite their real history, teach and learn about the truth, for the land, that they share with others!! This is what, Hrant Dink dream was!

  84. The process is not responsibility of people living in Turkey, everyone has to come around the same table. Although I support to do all possible to get out of dark period for everyone, I do not agree using the term indigenous for Armenians. It recalls Australia or Americas in my mind. Similarly I do not support Jews from far away countries expandling the settling in Palestine lands claiming that they are indigenous and that it was “promised”. One has to learn from history and make sure it wont repeat but also learn where to stop and dont create constant hostility and eventually war. Saying that if a friendly environment is created I am sure Anatlians of today will embrace those who comes to live side by side. With constant hateful reminders and brain washing from both sides I am afraid it may take a while. My only hope is more interaction between people without spitting each others face like street children. Talk, talk, talk.. Do things together.. Learn each other.. See your similarities.. See how much same how much different.. Go to holidays.. Interact with people like yourselves. See that it is not Turks or Armenians.. It is people : some good, some bad, some unhappy, some sad, some evil, some idiot, some beautiful, some ugly, some funny, some irritating, some energetic some boring to death, some stupid, some extremely charming, some rich, some eats garbage.. People are people.

    • avatar Umit Yigit // January 25, 2013 at 2:41 am //

      I meant The process is not responsibility of people living in Turkey alone.

    • You speak of learning Umit Yigit? So if that is the case.. i would like to know how much you learned here.. i say not much.. because you sing the same broken song over and over again..

      it is funny how now you call us children who create constant hostility which eventually will create war.. you know what strikes me the most and I can’t help but laugh at your comments?…they are very very similar to what your state has been spreading around.. now that they can’t get out of the issue of “Yes the Genocide happened”.. BUT…instead this is how your govt justifies the kilings of the innocent because they have no other hole to crawl into anymore.. are you ready?? here it goes… .. well world…they provoked it because see??? see???? Armenians act like children.. Armenians can’t stop being hostile and because they are hostile, they create the war… they provoked the war..and umm..umm.. see world?? ummm… we have no choice but to wipe them out.. ..just trying to find idiotic excuses to get the job done right?

      You are the epitomy of a confused and lost individual my denialist friend.. it is very unfortunate that after all this, you continue to preach your old song…

      Also, Armenians have been and will always be the indigenous people of the Highlands they were forcefully moved out by Genocide.. engrave this in your brain … forever and ever…

  85. {“ I do not agree using the term indigenous for Armenians.”}

    Of course not: why would the progeny of foreign nomadic invaders, invaders from 3,000 kilometers East of the Armenian Highlands, agree with the ‘term indigenous for Armenians’.
    Why even bring up the dirty word ‘indigenous’: indigenous to a foreign nomadic invader is what pork is to a devout Muslim.
    Australia or Americas ? What does the price of eggs in China have to do with Australia or Americas ?

    {“. Similarly I do not support Jews from far away countries expandling the settling in Palestine lands claiming that they are indigenous and that it was “promised”.”}
    Makes perfect sense, No ? Turkic tribes from faraway lands – e.g. Uyguristan – “expandling the settling in Armenian lands”: that one is OK.
    But Jews, who were indeed indigenous to the area called Israel about 2000 years ago (so were (historic) Palestinians), have no rights to their historic lands: why should they ?

    {“ if a friendly environment is created I am sure Anatlians of today will embrace those who comes to live side by side”}
    Yep: the mythical ‘Anatolians’ of today are really embracing those who live side by side with them today. You now, those ‘other’ people. Armenians.
    So far 4 Armenian old women have been assaulted and savagely beaten in the ‘Anatolian peoples’ paradise of Istanbul: one was murdered in the same manner that Christian Armenians were murdered in 1895-1923: edged weapons.
    I guess this person’s Turkic ‘Anatolian’ concept of embracing does not have the same meaning as for the rest of us. .
    I’d rather the mythical ‘Anatolian peoples’ stay as far away from indigenous Armenians as possible. We have been embraced enough.

    And finally, regarding all this talk about e.g. “…. we are not Turks, nor Kurds, nor Armenians, nor Greeks…..; we are all happy Anatolian peoples living happily together.”: When Türkiye changes its name to Peoplistan; when the official language is changed from Turkish to Esperanto and all Turks (and only Turks) are forced to changed their language to Esperanto; when Muslim Turks (and only Muslim Turks) are forced to become Atheists on pain of death – then Turks can come and try to convince Armenians to return to Asia Minor and live side by side with Peoples.

  86. avatar gaytzag palandjian // January 26, 2013 at 12:42 am // Reply

    Dear Avery,
    I know the ire,the disgust, mixed with annoyance triggered by some Turk here come to the point to say that last sentence.I don´t blame you.That hapopens to me too. Let´s differentiate though what living alongside those people can be for us –
    Turks of course- and what living on our soil independently ,even in a reduced Future Armenia sharing(sorry deviding) part of the six vilayets between us and Kurds. But never again live mixed with Peoplistan people as you put it.
    See what happned to India and Pakistan…not too long ago..
    They simply split.Same is happening with the Palestinians and Jewry.Note I do not say Jews.Because that land is partiallyu-to be just and impartial has been the cradle of the sons of Israel-Jews,that for centuries were strewwen over the globe-chased away.
    Now that I´m at it.Palestinians or Arabs(though we respect them ) ought to do consider doing same as Bakistan and India did. Easy as that.
    Our Case with great Turkey will cease to be so once they admit to cul`pability officially and submit to Internationl Cojurt ruling to make amends.
    Enoiugh rying to sugar-coatedlhy offer us This that Monastery…
    I already wrote here on another thread that we shall not be taken in with a few showcases offered by them.
    the must also realize that we cannot be lured(a few supposedly Armenians) I write so ,as am pretty certain there are perfectly Armenian speaking Turk agents amongst usw.
    Only a few yrs ago Haratch Weekly of Parisw disclosed that intelligence report had it that some 120 turkish army officers were learning armenian and Armenian related at the highest Military acadekly in Ankara..
    I questione whatever for ???? to be sent to the moon???
    por to B-Aires,. NY,chicago,L.A. Parisw et.c, eto mix with us and pretend that they are from this that interior town of Turkley and then sow discord amongst us etc., etc., etc.,
    yes they are too smart for some of us people. whoch immediatley are taken in or …God forbid even bribed to blow their trumpets…..

  87. This will be a long painful process, for some Turks to understand the truth of Armenian Genocide, in the heart of Armenian Highland !!

  88. avatar john the turk // January 26, 2013 at 2:13 am // Reply

    Avery
    To be perfectly honest, I do hate the word indigenous but I do not know why? I think that you gave me the answer. I also like you proposal of changing the language and religion etc. because being bilingual is always good .)

  89. no, it wont be painful process, i do not loose my hope or vision because of some ridiculously hateful and desperate posts, always from same few individuals. such few extremists do not speak for Armenians, they speak for themselves. We wont give them humanistan passport.

    • Umit spoke. so everyone know this …..Anatolian peoples are going to act humane against Armenians and other minorities you know….. the hatefully charged children that will provoke wars because Umit said so … it is because the denialist who believes Armenians should forget and forgive those who murdered and continue to muder my people says he will not lose hope.

      What a joke. Some denialists should change their careers to persue as comedians cause i sure laugh when they comment.

      Wow.

    • Gayane,

      karcume em petq chi nra vra ushadrutyun darcnel. Izur jamanaki, energiayi u teghi korust e. Vor anushadrutyan matnenq aydqan arit chi unena nuyn ban@ krknelu. Apsos en mer edjer@!

  90. avatar umit yigit // April 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm // Reply

    An update to Ms. Boyajian about the serial killer in Istanbul’s Armenian Neighborhood. The police investigation showed that it was a simple criminality of a mentally disturbed person. without excusing the historical tragedies, I still think people of this time should avoid nervous comments, Armenian and Turkish people are closer to each than any other nation to each.

  91. I recently watched this documentary and was shocked. I live in Canada and I have never heard of this genocide. I can relate to the film-maker in the affects of the genocide that has been passed on from generation to generation. My grandfather was Native American, born on a reserve. He was taken away from his parents as a young child and sent to a residential school. From there he was adopted out to a white family and stripped of his heritage. Because of this he was never able to form attachments, and abandoned my grandmother when she was pregnant with their child. My father grew up without a father, and never became one himself, so I was left without one too, and my parents divorced when I was 3. It is a vicious cycle that is not easily broken, especially when there is denial on the part of the perpetrators. How many genocides will the world cover up? Armenians, Kurds, Ukranians, Rwanda, Jews, etc. We cannot prevent it from happening again until we acknowledge and learn from the past. I pray this will happen in the near future.

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