DETROIT, Mich. (A.W.)—Dr. Jack Kevorkian on the morning of June 3 at William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak. He was 83.
The Associated Press reported that Kevorkian had been hospitalized in May after experiencing pneumonia and kidney problems.
Kevorkian, the world renowned assisted-suicide advocate, was released from prison in 2007 after serving for eight years. He had assisted in at least 130 suicides.
Kevorkian, born in Pontiac to Armenian immigrant parents, was also a painter and composer.
“You Don’t Know Jack,” a film by Oscar-winning director Barry Levinso and based on the life and work of Kevorkian, aired on HBO in April 2010.
Al Pacino won the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) Award in February for “Outstanding Performance by an Actor in a TV Movie or Mini-Series” for his role as Jack Kevorkian.
The plot takes place in the 1990’s when Kevorkian, a former pathologist, began his highly controversial practice of assisting suicides and brought the topic of euthanasia to the forefront of American political debate.
Jack… the Armenian Angle Gabriel,
Arrived to Heaven, to meet his Friends
The life is unbearable
When anyone has
intolerable pain…
When no medicines
No drugs can help…
For what to live
if there is no cure
To have more pain and end…
And end where and when…
As end is end
No one can escape…
Jack was not a killer
But wanted to help…
Do healthy ones understand?
They will never feel
Till they reach that chair
Wishing to end their life
As the end is end
No one can delay…!
Sylva-MD-Poetry
June 3, 2011
Written instantly
He sure was the man who went aganst all norms to show that there is a possibility to stand what you truly believe in no matter how much they tried to bring him and shot him down..
He showed the world that he was not only a great pathologist who was put on this earth to open up eyes with his work but also a son of Armenian parents…
Sylva jan.. shat sirun poem es grel.. apres
He will be missed….
Gayane
No one is entitled to take a human life except God
Ani jan..
That may be true but God does not want any human being to suffer like that…at least that is what I think.. all terminally ill individuals have only one wish… to STOP the excruciating pain…and obviously our medical system treats them as stats and the only reason they keep them around as long as possible is all about money.. .. WHY? why allow such suffering just to get few people/organizations rich???
It is absolutely painful for the family as well… no family would want their loved one to be taken from them.. GOD forbid if I am ever in that situation because i would not know what to do… but deep down i would NOT want them to suffer for years with horrible and continueous medicines, procedures just to prolong the pain ….i don’t know…. this is a very sensitive matter but what he did was to help those who did not get any help from anywhere else.. that is just my opinion… of course everyone has their own opinion…
He had the balls to stand up against all odd and spoke very frankly how our medical and health system is corrupt… he believed in truth… and he did what he believed was necessary to help these people….now whether or not it was the right thing to do…hmm..well his patients never complained… .. as far as I know he NEVER pressured/ pushed/demanded anyone to take their own lives…
G
He was definitely controversial, but I believe overall, he helped more than he harmed. Watching a family member waste away is horrific, the ones that are suffering have it even worse. His mission was mercy and at that, he excelled. The world needs people that are willing and able to see where there is pain and a need and do what needs to be done to end the suffering.
He ASSISTED, that is all. These people would have taken their own lives to stop the pain, no matter what. He only helped them do what THEY wanted, and were going to do, anyway. While I do not really like the euphemism: Would you allow your family dog to continue on in pain and suffering for years? Most sympathetic people would say no. So, why would you want a family member to suffer that fate? Pure selfishness, is all I can think.
Dr. Jack Kevorkian: A good doctor. A good Armenian. A good American.
I’m not arguing that Kevorkian might have been a good doctor, a good Armenian, and a good American, but have to agree with Ani: God gives us life and it is He who has the supreme authority to take it from us. I empathize the people who suffer, but who knows why God brings sufferings upon them? Maybe there were things earlier in their lives for which they need to stand accountable afterwards? Man cannot take upon himself Godly decisions.
Ani and Berch – Then why bother going to the Doctor at all? Man created medicine to help ease suffering – not God. So, by the same logic you are giving, Man should not accept the medicine, created by man, and possibly die from something as easily curable as the flu?
God created Man to help his fellow men. That is exactly what Dr. Kevorkian was doing. I believe he was doing exactly what God wanted him to do – to help ease the suffering of his fellow Man.
How do you know that God did not speak directly to him and ask him to help Him ease the suffering of His people?
There are none so blind as those that would not see.
Whatever happened to that PRICK who killed ,Sweet Zaruhi? RIP Jack, Vardzget Gadar.
Eumenides — It’s not the same logic. Going to the doctor to ease toothache and granting life and death are different issues. A man who was cured from something as easily curable as the flu may die in a car accident on his way home after visiting the dentist. Man’s wisdom and ability to create medicine to help ease suffering is granted by God.
“God gives us life and it is He who has the supreme authority to take it from us.”
That’s a personal belief.
Berch, what is your opinion of cancer treatments then? Is cancer God’s way of putting a death sentence on a person? Are we interfering with God’s plan if we try to save someone from their cancer? What if someone is 2 weeks away from dying of a terminal disease and there is no other option but to wait in agonizing pain? Should that person be prevented from ending the suffering sooner, rather than later?
Jay jan.. i sure want to know about whatever happened to that monster who killed Zaruhi myself….
Eumenides- I understand what you are saying.. I agree with you….
Berch and Ani- I know it is hard to let go of the loved one.. but come on.. why keep them in such pain???? Would you allow anyone you love to go on with the thought of “i will not get better and every day, I get worst… when will this illness kill me?… I can’t handle the pain.. i can’t handle the hospital, the equipment that TRIES to treat my illness but fail… why am I alive?”….. such things can truly affect both emotionally, physically and mentally not only the patient but everyone around them…. so instead of joining the ranksof all those who have their own agenda to keep them alive in such state, stop and think…is it love when I want my loved one whois terminally ill live? Astvats heru pahi .. Astvats heru pahi.. God forbids no one face such horrible situation… Astvats heru pahi…
Gayane
“Jack… the Armenian Angle Gabriel,
Arrived to Heaven, to meet his Friends”
Sylvia, how do you know jack ( Dr. Death) has gone to heaven ? Any news from the hell ?
Necati,
I believe you are better connected with hell. Ask your buddy Talaat next time you talk to him.
Yes dear Necati,
Turks and Nazis taken all the seats in the hell, therefore there was no room for jack to join with hell people, Jack transferred directly from Earth to Heaven!!F.Y.I Dr. Kevorkian’s parents were survivors of Armenian Genocide of Turkey and he watched how his parents suffered, where his grandfather beheaded by an angry gendarme and grandmother was raped and dumped into river in their ancestral homeland called Anatolia .. he heard how all his parents family murdered and raped by Turkish and Kurdish gangs in Syrian desert, that effect to that little boy mind and soul.. he felt to become more human and help humans as much as he could, when he become a doctor, he could not stand to see sick humans to suffer the way his parents suffered …human suffering was moral punishment to him..something that most Turks do not have that feeling… therefor your beloved grandfathers did not want somebody like Jack to disturb their peace in hell..I know you don’t believe me, but you can try to go there for a visit…you may get a chance if you prepare a good “resume” for your Turkish Gendarme boss named Envar Pasha, you may stay there for a better life and a brighter future!!go for it necati, Allah is on your side!!
Well said,Gayane jan
[God gives life and god takes]
Every nation have their own god
Ottomans’ god ordered them to slay
Our one and half million lives
Armenian god wanted us to pray
And handle them our lives
And every thing we have
Can any one on this site
Tell us where are our innocent children
In heaven or hell?
I feel we are still living in
Al-Jahelia era…as the Arabs define…!
Sylva
_____________
Read modified article and comment…
Jack Kevorkian (1928-2011) -The pathologist
Advocated “Death with Dignity”
Jack… the Armenian Angle Gabriel Arrived Heaven,
To Treat and Sing with His Peers
The life is unbearable
When someone has ‘Intolerable Pain’…
Where no medicines
No drugs can help…
Hence…For what to live
If there is no cure
To have more pain
And sigh every second
For days…and days…
Till the saviour arrives
And end where and when…!
As the end is end
No one can escape
Jack was not a slayer but pathologist
He knew the end of every disease…
He was but a Painter, Composer, Instrumentalist
He was “right to die activist”
Named euthanastist…
“Death with Dignity”
He was imprisoned
For eight years…by the judges…Not by God
Those…Who never understood his mind…
They named him ‘Doctor Death’
Did he kill a child?
How about tyrants…genociders
Who killed the unborn before the pregnant mother…
Was he terrorist ?
Or ex-IMF chief, Mr. DSK*
Or Mr. Madoff**…Who emptied the pockets of the rich and poor
Till his son Mark*** committed suicide at his behalf…!
Why we don’t call him ‘Father Death’
Can healthy and young ones understand?
What does it mean sick and/or demented
They will never feel
Till they reach that chair
Wishing to end their life
As the end is end
No one could delay…!
Mr. Kavanaugh,****of right-to-die organization said,
“Dr. Kevorkian was a man who sought out humanity…”
I do add my say, “He is and was typical honest scientific Armenian…
Born to advocate the truth knowing well…He will hurt him self…”
Sylva-MD-Poetry
June 3, 2011
________________
* Dominique Strauss-Kahn (b.1949-????)
** Bernard Madoff (b.1938–????)
*** Mark Madoff (1964-2010)
****Frank Kavanaugh, a member of the board of directors of the Final Exit Network, a non-profit and right-to-die organization.
Dear All,
For your info.Dr. Jack Kevorkian was interviewed by the Team Armenoid, fortunately,as an orphan of the Genocide.The title of this Documentary is ¨OROHANS OF THE GENOCIDE¨.He was chaosen,amongst others ,since he was also an orphan.The trailer ofsaid Documentary of some 8/10 minutes already in circulation,myself also interviewed.
However main protagonists are Dr. Kevorkian and also as Commentator the famous british friend of ours ,journalist Robert Fisk of ¨The Independent¨.This documentary deals mainly with some 1200 orphans that were being forcfully turkified by Jemal Pasha and his lover not far from Beirut.The orphanage was discovered and the mass tombs of more than half of these unfortunate orphans that did not survive the harsh treatment they received at that orphange.I´d say more than orphanage it was a CHILDRNS PRISON,wherein they perished….
The Feature /Documentary is slated to be produced and ready for showing sometime in the fall.For further info pleae enter and watch -I don´t recall well- The Armenoid team.
Bregards,
Gaytzag Palandjian
“Every nation have their own god”
Sylvia,
You look like same as some so-called Kurdish “intellectuals” in Anatolia who never reads and talks too much instead.
There is only “one” God for all celestial religions. If you are a pagan , then i have nothing to say.
Please read more.
Genis
I have read Quran more than Anjel (Bible)
Turks read Quran in their own way
And applied the way they liked…
On the christians…on Allawis and their Muslim Kurds…
Quran Almubeen says,
“You have a religion, I have a religion”
(Lakum Denoon wa le deen)
Doesn’t force any one to change his religion…
And Turkify them and call them Hemsin…
I lived all my beautiful happy childhood with the Arabs and Kurds
No body forced me to change my religion…
Or change my name or surname
To be named Aysha and Kara-Oglu
From the Arab land Quran appeared…
Never from Seljuks…
They entered the religion without understand what each ‘Aya’ meant…
As they entered Islam in 13th century…
We didn’t hear in our lives any Arab killed
Or raped any Armenian girl…
Can you answer me if the Arabian God
Is the same as Seljuks…the Ottomans…or recent Ataturkian Turks…
In spite all of them have the same god called Allah
Allah was the same Allah in al-Jahilia (before Islam)
Only the expression is changed…
If you Know Ayat al-Qurania (the Phrases in the Quran)
more than me…come and face me
Read how many times Jesus’s name
Is mentioned in the Quran (25 times )
And don’t pretend that you know God
More than me and you apply his words…
It Turks new who is the real God
They will not kill so many innocent lives…
They will not confiscate our belongings…our land
How they can use something they steal…?
Arabs seen by their eyes
How Turks use to slash
The abdomen of pregnant Armenians…
By their scimitars…
Enough is enough
Quran never says
Kill women or a child…
What they did is never written
In any religion in any history…
Turks are unique for that
Turks spoiled the name of the Arabs…
Arabs are peace loving nation…
And indeed very kind…
SP
To Ani and the Like!
Please speak for yourself! If you believe in God, that is fine! If you want to suffer, humiliate yourself and your loved ones, be my guest, you have the right to do that, it is YOUR life and YOUR faith and your choice and I do respect that! But do not force YOUR religion, your beliefs on others! YOU have no right to enforce YOUR religion and beliefs on others! Who are you to tell me that God has to decide when I should die when I do not even know if God exists or not! I personally want to die with dignity and that is above everything and it is none of your business!
Jack is a hero. He fought for people like me! He will be missed but his legacy will go on!
Linda: You over exaggerate. By expressing an opinion I’m not trying to force anything upon you. Just as I don’t take your opinion as anything that you’re trying to force upon me. No need for insults or infuriation. This is a public forum and everyone is entitled to have her or his opinion. If you think you are the master of your life and are able to foresee how long you live and when and how you die, it’s an opinion I’d respect, although it is certainly not a commonly-held opinion. But I would not get infuriated because someone thinks differently than me or denigrade a person by a phrase “and the like”…
Dr. Kevorkian he believed in what he was doing, he was original.
If they the (State & Federal) listened to what he was saying, Wander how much Medicare would have been ahead by now? Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it ~Albert Einstein.
Dear Sylvia,
I am not well-educated on the religion so i will not start a debate about it except a few things that i cant help saying truths.
I , too, have Bible in my home library .To me, all religions serve the same god altough the ways are not same. And i do not care too much about it.
“Quran Almubeen says,
“You have a religion, I have a religion”
Doesn’t force any one to change his religion…”
Maybe this is the reason for Anatolia to be a multi-religion land. ?
“From the Arab land Quran appeared…
Never from Seljuks…”
All prophets appeared on the same land (middle east—I wonder why here) except Moses .
“Allah was the same Allah in al-Jahilia (before Islam)
Only the expression is changed…”
Wrong! Arabs used to worship to cult images before Islam.
Turks were Shamanist before Arabs convert them to Muslum.
“Arabs are peace loving nation…
And indeed very kind…”
I am not sure about this because I never lived together with them.
Necati… If you don’t know then close your mouth and don’t provoke anything that you can’t openly debate with intelligent manner.. and it seems like you do not have the capacity to learn or conversate about a subject that you are not remotely close to relating.. and that is humility, compassion and understanding… which Dr. Kevorkian possessed.. but then again I can’t blame you.. you came from a country/govt that don’t have such words in every day vocabulary…so instead of talking nonsense and stupidity by briging in HELL you should start reading and educating yourself abut your ancestors who alredy have the front seats, middle seats and back seats of hell…. before you insult a man whose one piece of hair from his head is worth more than everyone in your barbaric ancestors combined…thank you and have a nice life.
Bedros jan– that is exactly what is happening.. medicare and health bills are hitting the roof….this country thrives on sick because they know they can pull as much funds as possible if they keep them alive as many years as possible.. i saw my grandmother suffer for 5 years in bed hooked on machines…. she could not do anything.. she was in a vegetable state.. the only reason they did not let her go is because some part of her brain was still functional.. she passed without recognizing anyone anymore… after 5 years of suffering.. not a good thing to do to a human being…
Ani jan– hopefully Linda was not trying to be harsh.. when emotions take over, we tend to come off too harsh but in reality we try to tell our side… You are entitled to your own opinion and that is your right… . i hope you don’t feel attacked…..
Jay jan– Mersi..:)
Necati, why are you spewing hatred and venum and disrespect towards a man who passed away?
Btw; you wouldn’t come close to Sylva. A poet has imagination, inspiration and insight and that’s what Sylva does through her poems. She only has the respect of so many in here including mine. I wish you had the intelligence to be able to understand what I am saying to you. Let’s hope that you come to your senses.
Dear Sylva,
Turkish Allah’s book, engraved, and beautified with a Mongolian style alphabets on top of the book, of course this invisible writing is readable only to those faithful Turks like Necati …”Penal Code 301″….
Necati Genis; “Maybe this is the reason for Anatolia to be a multi-religion land. ?”
Such an irony coming from someone of the nation that did all it could to eliminate the diverse religions and indigenous ethnicities of Asia Minor and create a pan-Turkic land. Where are the Assyrians, Pontic Greeks, Armenians? How free are the Kurds and Alevis to practice their own unique cultures? You do not realize how brain-washed by Turkey’s propaganda machine you are. I hope you will someday come to know the true history. Stop spreading hatred and and join the many brave Turks who recognize the guilt of your nation.
A letter from Genis to Sylva on 4th June 2011
“You look like same as some so-called Kurdish “intellectuals” in Anatolia who never reads and talks too much instead.
Genis
I forwarded your letter and my poem to my close friend M.J since 40 years…her mother was Turkish from Ottomans istanbul, her father Kurdish Surgeon…She never liked her mother …she calls her Heartless.. while she liked her Kurdish father kind and clever…She is highly educated and almost royal…
When she read you letter, she was shocked…
What do you mean…Kurdish intellectuals don’t read and talk to much…!
Why do you look so inferior to the Kurds?
I think this is how you brought up in your home…
Hating others who are non-turkish…
Even if they are muslims and belong to the same mosque…Sunni
Do you know what percentage of educated Kurds are in the world as compared to Turks…
How kind and humble they are?
The Internet is in front of you…read…Before writing what your parents or your teacher told you.
At the end my close (Turkish-Kurdish) friend told me
Please Sylva…
“Don’t waste your time with such people…because
They will continue swim in their lake, even if it is dirty…”
Sylva
So true Sylva…
but someone need to stop such people from spreading incorrect information and you all are doing a great job..
God Bless you all
Gayane…Jan…Habiba
I feel every cell in you
Speaks alphabetical Armenian.
People change continuously
But You can’t change…
I feel…You are like me
We should meet
I should fly from east to west
To see your kind face
And share you thoughts
And speak heartily with
And live close…
Sylva
I am proud…and We all are
We have so many good Armenian writers
I read their phrases
They are all honest crystal clear…
My Soulful Deep Love
To their Exhausted Phalanges
And their Crying Pen….
Wish them healthy long life…
To continue their dedication
Till we reach our wishes…
And live united
As we are an artful race
And we are ready…
To give without asking any return
And we give
From our heart-mind and hands…
For everyone who needs our help…
Sylva
Few know that Dr. jack Kevorkian was an orphan. Rendered so after his parent(s)were massacred by ottoman Turkey. Recently,some few months ago he agreed to be interviewed as such , for a Documentary that is being made by the Armenoidteam.com.
If you enter this web site you will form an idea of what that trailer describes.
The actual feature film on the subject matter, i.e. ORPHANS OF THE GENOCIDE will hopefully be ready for showing a a few months.At present though Dr. Jack Kevorkian, having passed away, makes the film even more important.Above all another personality is also to be interviewed by said team member(s).
I also appear in the trailer,as my mother was also an orphan.His parents having been massacred in Nakhijevan by azeri turks,instigated by ottoman Turkish officers(see Prof. Richard g. Hovanissian´s Republic of Armenia in IV volumes, wherein he describes that in a chapter on Nakhijevan.
g.p
Dear Sylva, I especially loved your soulful poem above, it made me feel so content to be Armenian and belonging to my race! Thank you!
I also very much agree with you about how you feel towards Gayane, she is a true blue Armenian speaking from her heart and soul and with intelligence. Gayane jan, I would love to be in your parents shoes now, because they brought you up right!
To , Gayane,Seervart and Sylva, You LADIES are, down home, sugar-coated,sweet and intelligent classy bunch. Love reading your comments. Love you all. Take care.
Dear Jay, In Armenian we say, “nemanes neman sire”. Meaning if you weren’t made from the same fabric you wouldn’t appreciate us. Thank you Jay jan for your kind remarks!
Sylva jan…. I can’t find words to describe how much I appreciate your warm and loving words.. thank you Quyrs for making me feel so special… I promise I will continue to fight for our justice, for our people and for my country and I am happy to have such sisters like you….
Seervart jan… Yes qo janin mernem… :)….Thank you so much for kind words… indeed it is my parents love about Armenia and culture that I become so connected with my roots, history and will continue to do so even after I have children.. :)as our children are our future and they need to be taught to love and fight to keep their culture, language and identity forever….BUT when will I have children, only God knows.. have to find a husband first..lol
Jay jan—ditto to what Seervart said…:) thank you…thank you.. thank you…hugs
Կայանէ քոյրս,
Ես կը հաւատամ աղոթքի զորութեան. հաւատքով աղոթէ Կայանէ ճան այն բոլոր բաներուն համար որ քու բարի սիրտդ կը ցանկանայ եւ Աստուած քու ցանկացածներդ պիտի կատարէ: Աղոթէ որ արժանաւայել եւ գաղաբարական անցին հանդիպիս նախ: Հաւատքով աղոթէ եւ Աստուածը սիրելով աղոթէ: Իմ լաւագոյն մաղթանքներս քեզի Կայանէ ճան:
Seervart, what a beautiful message to Gayane. I completely agree.
I am truly blessed.. truly…… and I know it is God’s love and my faith that brings me close to such amazing and beautiful people like all of you…
Mersi Seervart jan for such wonderful wish.. Yes ampayman kaxotem…yerevi hents da e vor petqe indz beri im erkrort kesin vor piti indz siri u yes iran sirem :) … ham el ayt andza piti lini im nman havatqov u mer yerkira u joghovurt sirogh…. Mersi Seervart jan… qo annuna qo nman siruna…;) vonts vor yerku geghetsik barer miatsats linen irar.. Ser yev Vart… :) two beautiful words..
Boyajian jan-.. shat shat shnorhakal em vor du el es nuyna tesnum im mech.. You are one amazing individual with full of knowledge… one day I want to be as knowledgeable with such beautiful penanship like you…
God Bless you all …
Gayane
“BUT when will I have children, only God knows.. have to find a husband first..lol”
Gayane , your message is received by all singles….
This forum is getting more like a matchmaker forum..lol
Can you tell us your background and age, eye color hair…etc. so that single men can consider ?
Ahhhhh… are you jealous Necati that you are not getting much love on these pages??? Don’t be.. I am sure the Devil has PLENTY OF LOVE for you when you meet him one day…
This is a forum where Armenians share their thoughts, ideas, and also small talk which includes a bit humor, and real life stories both personal and otherwise…oh and of course shutting up arrogant, ignorant, unintelligent, and closed minded TUrkish denialists… do you have a problem with that?
Gayane
Thank you so much Dear Mr. or Ms. Boyajian, isn’t it true though? God always helps when you pray Him with belief and with all your heart, and of course when you stand good with Him!
Gayane jan, Vochinch kuyr jan, yes miyayn ge tsanganam vor shad mod abakayin amenagaln Asdvads kou polor pokr ou meds makhtankneret gadare.
Gayane jan, ge hentrem hayrenaser azniv kuyres, charjer. Shat shenorhagal em im anvan masin kou serdapoukh anoush khoskerout hamar. Yes al nuyne gesem mer kachazniv Gayane guyserou hamar voronk meds badiv yev harkank perin mer sireli Hay aznevagan azkin! Shat bidi papakim vor mod abakayin kou polor meds ou poker tsangoutyounneret amenagaln Asdvads gadare yev menk al aysdegh imanank yev ourakhanank kezmov!
Lavakouynes,
Seervart
Necati, First off this was a two way conversation between Gayane and myself, and secondly, if you have nothing nice to say be quiet and in short; shut your mouth!!!!
Seervart jan… Boyajian kin e… shat harpurich yev ahavor xelatsi…:) I truly enjoy her writing and always looking forward reading them..:)
Duq Astso koxmits uxarkvats martik eq..:)
XOXOX
Gayane
Gayane,
I prefer a matchmaking site to a debate forum with mostly biased comments.
To the Editor: Why do you keep censor my posts? I never use any rude words against anyone? This is an open forum to everyone with different thoughts or open to only one side ?? Please tell me by email or from here so that i will not spend my valuable time for writing replies to be censored
To Seervart and Gayane, Read your comments and hats off to you two. Love you all. enjoy this song, which is unrelated to the thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbm0QVmxYls
Mersi Seervart jan…. Astvats togh qo dzaynt lsi..:) u shat siretsi qo xosqa Necatiin… apres..:)
Jay Jan– Mersi qo xosqerit hamar and for sharing the song.. i truly enjoyed it..:)
Nacatiiiii— Nacati- Nacati—No one ASKED YOUR OR INVITED YOU to come in here and waste your NON-valuable time… if you feel you are wasting your time, there are other sites like many TUrkish sites where you can go and posts your nonsense…i am sure they will appreciate it because they love those who deny, talk and spew hate, and speak nonsense..and there are few on our pages just like you…i am sure you already know who they are who sing the same song, have the same whine and prefer the same cheese with the whine….. but thank you for your input.. i will take that and sleep on it.. i am sure i will forget the next morning..:)
Armenian Editorial Team: I am sure people like Nacati or Robert, or Murat and alike share the same dream and come off from the same throne because they think they are entitled to all the priviledges of this forum.. and why?? Who knows.. maybe they think they are somebody..interestingly they are forgetting that they have no value to anyone if they continue to be denialists…In any case, Astso siro, why do these people, ONLY these Turks who posts on our forum complain about their nonsense comments being censored.. I know there is no room for nonsense on these forums but what is it that their limited knowledge about their history that they want to share with us.. please do allow it.. even though I know they are just crying wolf because they have nothing better to do…..
Gayane ,
Please spell my name correctly..It Necati , not nacati..
To editoral board,
Gayane says : ” I know there is no room for nonsense on these forums but what is it that their limited knowledge about their history that they want to share with us.. please do allow it..”
Armenians also do not want you censor any comment. Will you (editor) agree with this ?Do you have courage ? If yes, start with my last one censored by you.
Thank you Gayane for your support. i hope you will find a handsome one, green eye, tall , strong .
Thanks Jay
for sending the song ‘Yerazneres’
Sibil Beg-Torosian…By her voice
Ignited the wishes of Hovanes Sheraz
To alive his stanzas and transcend to his lover…
I am sure Sheraz is hearing the song
I wish we know who was she…!
Very strong passionate words
Not every poet can create
And not every one can fire the music
And give a real soul and sing…
Sylva-Md-Poetry
____________________
Note: After I die someone will sing my lyrics…
I tried to find someone but not achieved yet…
” Lance My Hart At a Glance” 2007…
and more than 1000′ verses
Thank you Jay jan what a lovely song, I truly enjoyed it as well as your kindness. Merci janik!
Thanks Sylva our dear poet for letting us know that it was Hovhannes Sheraz’ poetry. I love sheraz and his patriotic poems. I have once recited his lovely poem about “Գարունն ու երիտասարդութեան դիւթիչ ու հմայիչ ըլլալը… Մանուշակներ ոտքերիս ու շուշաններ ձեռքերիս,ու վարդերը այտերիս ու գարունը կրծքիս տակ”. Lovely poem for a young person to recite. I especially love his patriotic poem where he says, “Վանա եւ Ուրմիոյ լճերն են թողուած Ախթամարն է մեր արտասւում անվերջ. Եւ այս բոլորը դուք տեսնում եք Հայե’ր եւ այն թողել էք բախտի պատմութեան, լոկ ցանկանալով հարցեր չեն լուծւում այս է մեզ ասում մեր կեանքը այժմեան- Պէտ’ք է պայքարել. պէտ’ք է պայքարել. եւ պէտք չէ սոսկալ մահից սեփական, մահվան քնով էլ պարտաւոր ենք մենք միացեալ տեսնել հողը Հայկական” What a beautifully patriotic peace, I simply love it and I love the man and his wonderful poems. Thank you both wonderful beings for this time with you and for reminiscing.
Dear Ms. Boyajian jan, I apologize for not having paid attention about your gender, but thanks to our kouyrig Gayane jan, now I also know for sure. Thanks again for your very kind words.
Anoush kouyres Gayane jan, Yes al Sylvai neman shat bidi ouzeyi or me kez dsanotanal yev im serdapoukh makhtankneres nergayoutyampes kez haydnel.
Necati,
We are not complaining about Turks who come and post on our papers or on our sites. There are plenty of educated and good natured Turks as well as the denyalist ones who are unfortunately are the outcome of today’s denyalist Turkish government, and who are educated with plenty of lies and deceit towards their Republic and how their history was formed and made of. It’s very unfortunate, because it is not only the Armenians that are losing in their deceitful games; but also the Turkish people that are being denied of their history and how their Republic was made of. Most of the educated and the knowledgeable Turks in the country have already expressed themselves as well as petitioned speaking for the Armenian Genocide to be acknowledged and hopefully accepted; but unfortunately your government persists to live in denyal and let most of their people to live in this denyal with them. There is a good saying that is said; “The truth shall set you free”. Thus, when the Turkish government finally one day wakes up and decides to accept the Armenian Genocide, not only they will abandon their unwanted burden that drags them down and more down, but they will also do their countrymen a great favor of letting them to be free of a drag down burden of denyals.
I am sure when the Turkish government finally do the right thing, acknowledges and accepts the Armenian Genocide, then Armenians and Turks will start seeing eye to eye and start building a good future for both our children and the generations that will come after us!
Seervart
Seervart,
Neither Turkish gov. nor Armenian gov. has the right , authority to make decision on this issue.
It is only historians who can find the truths with evidences, and then, nautral courts.
Necati,
Why not? Was it the German and the Jewish historians that gave the right of way for the Haulocaust to be acknowledged, accepted and then reparations made in the form of billions of dollars to be paid to the Jewish communities and Israel? NO OF COURSE NOT! The very respectable Genocide historian committee that was comprised of internationally renowned historians already worked on the veracity of the Armenian Genocide for 30 years and they found it to be called a Genocide. After all, practically an entire race were annihilated and then uprooted from their anscestral homeland of Western Armenia, that is today’s Eastern Turkey. It now lies within the Turkish Republic’s government to first acknowledge their history of 1915 and then to accept the Armenian Genocide.
Necati Genis:
Governments represent the people, in Armenia’s case the mass annihilated people, people subjected to the first genocide of the 20th century. This is not about “making a decision.” This is a government’s reflection on what the people experienced themselves on their own skin, what remains and will always remain in their collective memory. Whereas in Turkey’s case, this is a sheer distortion of history in order to deceive the people that their ancestors were not mass murderers, mutilators, torturers, rapists, and thieves. Well, they were. And this is the prerogative of the government to admit the truth. How can a Turkish historian living in the country admit openly what the rest of the world knows, namely: that the Ottoman Turks have perpetrated the crime of genocide, if your government introduced and threatens to use Article 301 of the Turkish penal Code against anyone who might “insult Turkishness”? Those brave Turkish historians and intellectuals who openly admitted the fact of the Armenian genocide were either deported (Orhan Pamuk) or fled (Taner Akcam) or killed (Hrant Dink). Many other human rights activists are constantly threatened.
Secondly, the majority of world historians have long made an unequivocal conclusion that forced deportations and mass murders of some 2-2.5 million of Christian Armenians were an act of a deliberate state policy of systematic annihilation of this racial ethnic, national, and religious group. The very term “genocide” was coined based on the study of Armenian and Jewish cases. The world has already passed the stage of concluding that it was, in fact, genocide. The world expects Turkey to acknowledge the crime.
As for neutral courts, if Turkey for 95 years distorts history, avoids taking responsibility for the crime its Ottoman predecessors have committed, lobbies world’s governments against the Armenian genocide resolutions, and bribes some historians to distort the truth about the genocide, how can you be sure that the same despicable behavior will not repeat in the courts?
Turks need to come clean from within first to understand that the best way to prove that you have progressed from barbarian Seljuk nomads and colonizing Ottomans to being civilized members of the world community is to face the truth and admit the guilt.
Necati, Seervart’s last post rings true for me. I agree that both Turks and Armenians are losers when the truth is not known by the Turkish public. But God is good and He will use this tragedy for his good in time, I am sure. I look forward to a day when Turks and Armenians no longer hold each other in contempt. In the meantime, yes, we should dialogue with each other, but please open your eyes, heart, mind to the fact that only 100 years ago Ottoman census figures showed 2-3 million Armenians where today there are almost none (relatively speaking). Where did they go? After 3-4 thousand years of creating a rich culture, language, building churches, etc. on the Armenian Highland, where did they go? Be logical. Armenians understand that after so many years of denial, it is hard for today’s Turks to believe this awful truth about their ancestors. But it is far worse to deny the descendants of the martyred Armenians, as well as Turkish society the truth of this shared history.
Seervart and Gor,
I do not know where you are writing from. Assuming from Armenia, i can say you do not know politicians yet because it is less then ten years since you seperated from USSR and started to be ruled under democracy.
Politicians are the least trustable people in all countries. If you are in USA ,please check statisctics.
They consider everything in the way which is useful for increasing their power and popularity.
” The very respectable Genocide historian committee that was comprised of internationally renowned historians already worked on the veracity of the Armenian Genocide for 30 years”
Who are these historians?I never heard..for 30 yrs.. They must be very old now.
” (Orhan Pamuk) or (Taner Akcam)”
I will not say any word for these people because i am afraid , if i say so, Editor, his Majesty , will censor my post.
Do not worry that anyone will change evidences. It is very easy to know the age of a paper document .
Last: Any decision taken by any government on the Armenian issue will not be accepted by , at least , myself.
Boyajian,
I wish you could make sure that i really want to know the only truth. not those which are propaganda. Since i am not historian, i leave this decision to the neutral historians commitee altough i read many things about it.
If a neutral historians commitee decides that it is genocide, i will be the first one to shout it at the Taksim Square.
Necati,
Alas that you are not following the news outside of Turkey or your immediate surroundings wherever that might be. It has been said on these sites numerous times and the historians that worked on the veracity of the Armenian Genocide wrote it right in here just a few months ago. When you are truly interested in the REAL history of the Turkish and the Armenian nations and people then you should educate yourself and not just what they are teaching you in Turkey, that is made up of deceitful lies, because that’s what the government of Turkey is feeding their people with. You have to come out of your shell and re-educate yourself from this site and also from many other books that are written about the Armenian Genocide and what has transpired in your country Turkey during WWI. You have to be interested and want to know the truth but not from the Turkish government and in Turkey, but it has to come from outside of Turkey.
Necati Genis:
Actually, Armenia has separated from the USSR 20 years ago already, but we’ve been on the world maps and in the world’s chronicles for almost 4000 years, and mostly in our historic homeland Western Armenia (now eastern parts of Turkey as a result of genocide).
You admit that politicians are the least trustable people in all countries. So I understand you admit that politicians are the least trustable people in your country, too? If so, might it be that the history of your state and the destiny of native people inhabiting Asia Minor are misrepresented by your government?
We don’t worry that anyone will change evidence. We know from Western scholars working in the Turkish archives, that evidence demonstrating the genocidal intent of the Ottomans has been destroyed. But, regardless, tons of evidence exist in Western and Eastern European archives, Russian, American, Canadian, Syrian, Israeli, and Armenian archives, based on which many historians, genocide scholars, demographers, international lawyers, Nobel Prize laureates, foreign parliaments, human rights organizations, and professional associations (such as the International Association of Genocide Scholars, check their site: http://www.atour.com/~aahgn/news/20080311a.html) have admitted that mass murders of Armenians amount to genocide.
Last. You say: “Any decision taken by any government on the Armenian issue will not be accepted by, at least, myself.” Why? If you consider yourself an open-minded person, why can’t you take into account what others have to say? Don’t you understand that other governments make statements on the Armenian issue because the Turkish government denies the truth? If the Turkish government admitted the guilt of its predecessors there would be less need for other governments to step up. Besides, genocide is a crime against humanity not only against a particular racial and religious group. As such, any government is entitled to raise concern.
Well said Gor and Boyajian jan….
Seervart jan– shat apres.. shat lav es grel.. yev imatsi vor yes shat shat kuzei vor qez u Sylvayin u Boyajianin u mi qani martkants ays siti mech tesnei.. shat kuzei….:)
Necati- you have not heard of the historians who have studied the Ottoman Genocide of the Eastern and Western Armenians? where have you been living? of course in Turkey or in the fecinity of the Turkish govt’s bubble I am sure… wow… you just confirmed my opinion of you and many who are in such denial that they are blind to step outside of their closed minded boundaries… i feel sorry for you and alike.. but to start off, please go back to other forums on AW and search for data.. you will find plenty to keep you busy for months… oh by the way, just so you know… the world historians already established the Genocide happened… but the only reason you govt and yourself is throwing this “oh it is not the govt’s place to decide or come up witha decision” is because YOU KNOW only GUILTY will say such a thing to stall as much time as possible…. only GUILTY will try to use excuses to cover up what it is hidden and afraid it will come out with a BIG BANG and destroy all the centuries of build up lies, distortion, denial, and manipulation.. and then one day BANG no more TUrkey…. because most of Turkey is not Turkey.. most of TUrkey’s wealth is not Turkey’s wealth… most of TUrkey’s history and riches is not TUrkey’s…. Got it, get it, ????? Good… :) have a nice day..
Gayane
Necati Genis, you forgot to answer my question regarding where all the Armenians went. What do you tell yourself to explain the near annihilation of a group of people from their ancestral land in such a short time frame? If the Turks were merely engaged in defending themselves against the “traitorous and revolutionary Armenians,” can you show me the numbers of Turks killed by Armenians which would demonstrate the need for the expulsion of the elderly, the innocent mothers and their children, the entire nation; without provisions to a desolate desert intended to be their graveyard? If people were deported for security reasons, wouldn’t they return after the threat had ended? Why weren’t people brought back after the war?
Because they were dead!
Why do Turks never answer this question? Can’t you allow your logical mind to review the facts and admit the obvious? A ‘neutral panel’ is Turkey’s game of delay. The facts are known and proclaimed all over the world because they are true. Only Turkey and their bought and paid for historians try to deny and distort this truth.
Insisting on a “neutral truth commission” to decide the ‘truth’ about the genocide is like a murderer who get’s away with his crime, and forced to face the truth 100 years later, demands that eye-witness be brought forward to verify the crime, knowing full welll that the eyewitness are likely dead and any evidence is degraded. Lucky for Armenians, we have the accounts of eye-witnesses which were recorded at the time, in the archives of numerous nations around the world. We have the newspaper accounts. We have Ambassador Morgenthau’s letters, we have Talaat’s own words. We have the Ottoman Courts Martial results. We have Ataturk’s statment regarding “the shameful act.” We have photos and we have the bleached white bones in Der Zor. Because Turkey refuses to accept all this known evidence, and because it feeds distortion to its own citizens and the rest of the world, so many nations around the world have taken the morally honest stance of proclaiming the truth within their own governments. Humanity defending humanity.
Well said Boyajian jan.. ditto ….
Gayane
Necati, you say historians must decide. There have been Thousand historian had said it was a GENOCIDE they have printed books with pictures about it, NY Times on at least in 10 deferent dates and on deferent Months with pictures and on the spot reporting; National geographic at least in 10 deferent dates and on deferent Months with pictures and on the spot reporting. I think now you are sticking with the turk government, must mater if the historian is on turk gov payroll {NOW that’s DIFERANT} they except that man/Woman’s credentials. Go look at McCarthy He is a historian turk gov loves what he is saying he has printed lies about the Armenian GENOSIDE, he will do and say anything turk gov wants him to say; why NOT they are paying him $3 Million per year, I think this man can’t even walk and chew gum at the same time he is even driving a shinier car than turk PM, then you have Livingston Inc. $9 million, Gephardt Inc.$$ about the same, Abe Foxman and on and on. Turk gov must have spend BBillions up to now (of whose money), just for covering up with lies the Armenian Genocide, tell us how much Armenian Government has spend for lying about the GENOCIDE, Go figure. If a bank robber/ Murderer comes in to you’re house and you don’t call the Police your guiltier by multiple times, so present turk gov hiding and concealing lying the facts about the GENOCIDE they are GULTY of committing the Armenian GENOCIDE.
Absolutely well said Boyajian and ditto as well. One more eyewitness news dear Boyajian is the latest well kept German archives that accounts numerous people around the Armenian Genocide from 1915 thru 1923 such as, Leslie Davis, of course Morgenthau, the German journalists, doctors and high ranking officers in Turkey. They all made their eyewitness accounts and kept it in their archives until now. Anyone who is interested can acquire the copies of that tape that the Germans let it out from their own archives.
To Necati,
Before shouting the words,’Armenian Genocide’; on ,Taksim square, let me give you a friendly advice.Please, read carefully the ‘Instruction Manual’ of Article 301 of Turkish PENALty CODE, This code considers mentioning or SHOUTING,in your case, the words’ Armenian Genocide’ as an insult of Turkishness. Your ‘Shouting’ on Taksim square, will land you in Turkish ,’Midnight Express’, slammer for minimum of three years. So,don’t say I didn’t warn you. Another thing, consider yourself fortunate, for having my fellow Armenians, Boyadjian,Gayane,Seervart,Sylva and others spend their valuable times with you to discuss and vindicate the issue of the Armenian Genocide. I, for one would not want to waste my time with, ‘Expert’ individuals like you, who knows much about LITTLE and continues to learn more about LESS untill knows everything about almost NOTHING. And all this is a result of ‘education’ you have recieved at your local Turkish LIE-brary. They,taught you NOTHING other than LIES. I have ran into Turks,Young and old, in places like, San Diego, San Francisco, Punta Gorda,Florida, New York, the Bahamas, Marseille,France, Malmo Sweden and many more and they all sound the sam old broken record,’ Armenians rebelled against the Ottoman’s by siding with the invading Russians.’ Yeah,right.What in hell ,Seljuk Nomads, doing in Armenian Highlands in the first place?
To all :
This forum is not open dissimilar thoughts.The Editorial board is like sword of Damocles hanging over those who say some thing different.
My comments are always censored .
It is not worth of spending time ..
In Anatolia, we have a saying: ” Korler sagirlar birbirini agırlar” meaning ,you Armenians stay here and continue aggrandize eachother ..
go on propoganda…
Seervart…Janik (that’s my line :) )
I believe this is the video you were refering to,Boyajian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM2yUPe9i44
Jay jan– I LOVEDDDDDDDDD last your post to Necati…..Ditto.. well said…..:)
Necati– are you seriously saying those words again? your posts are being censored… seriously??? are you sure it is your computer or you imagining things? are you sure you click “SUBMIT” after you pour all your nonsense on to the screen? maybe you forget to click Submit. who knows? but really ..your accusations to AW is getting old… aghhh.. you Turks (NOT ALL.. people like you and Robert and Murat and such) are just soo annoying with your complaints about your posts are being posted….
Gayane
Necati,
I saw how “civilized” Turks behave themselves in Toronto streets with hanging our country’s flag upside down, what a shame, what a civilization, you people have western clothing with “Mongolian Islamized” mentality..and I wonder sometimes why you guys run away from a civilized country like Turkey can not behave like other minorities and obey the basic rule of civilization, and fight against unjust code of 301 in your beloved Turkified country!!
Grish jan.. et yerpa da eghel? was it recent? chem tesel or kartatsel dra masin.. inch lav kliner vor video kam newspaper clip liner dra masin…
Karoxa unenas?
Gayane
Yes Gayane jan,
It was in Asbarez news as well!!
see the picture..and judge for yourself!
Toronto Community Holds Demonstration at Turkish Consulate
Jay jan… yes we can share the janik!!! :) I loved your line about the turkish LIE-brary!! That was so fitting!! Good post Jay jan and yes that is exactly the tape I was referring to our friend Boyajian. I also saved it in my computer but the German version, it used to be the English tanslation and then it was discontinued. I would like to own the English translation.
Grish jan, Why am I not surprised of the turks’ behaviour? What else is new??? They dress up with European clothing and say that they are democratic, yet they don’t act it nor know a thing about democracy.
Gayane jan, I loved loved loved your post above to Necati saying… “are you sure you posted it? Are you sure you pressed the button….” Ha Ha Ha You gave it right back to him when they question us for the veracity of the Armenian Genocide. BRAVO Gayane janik shat shat abris!!!!
Jay this is what I wrote after i saw the You-Tube forwarded by you…thanks
Photos on Armenian Genocide Smashed by Turks in Germany
Let everyone see
What new-Ottoman’s can do
They carry the same gene
And will carry through…
Their aim is to vanish Armenians
From the universe…
So no-one will hear the word Genocide
A Word created…
Thus…of their inhuman acts…after acts
Can’t accept even real photos
Can any one destroy those photos…?
They wish to enter inside every internet…
And burn all the films…
As they burned our woman and children
In churches in hays
Thanks God …
Thanks for civilization…Inventions
Who created webs after webs
Even illiterates can see…
By their eyes…
It is at every site…
Every one should be educated what Ottomans did
for every place they occupied
To Arabs ( The real Muslims) to Assyrians…Greeks…
And recently to Kurd Muslims…
Allah…Allah…Allah
How can they gag billion mouths…!
Sylva-MD-Poetry
Written instantly
There they go again, one lie after another. Necati,dude. ‘ ‘Korler sagirlar birbirini agirlar’ does not mean ‘Armenians, stay here and blah…blah…blah…. As you indicated. The above Turkish saying as you had posted ,has the same meaning as,’ Keor Gedyor Yole Gedyor’ meaning ‘the Blind Leading the Blind’ as in the ‘Blind Turk government is Leading the Blind Turk population.’ Nice try on your end,though.
Sylva,Thnx for sharing your poem, great job. Unfortunately,Turk population, in Turkey, will be unable to view the video due to the banning of the ,youtube, by their government.
Vay apres Jay jan…:) lav asetsir…:)
Seervart jan– anytime im sireli barekamuhi…:)
Grish jan– thank you for the link.. i read it and yet again confirmed my belief about just a pocket of Turks who demonstrate their inability to act like civilized people.. and they shout democracy, civilized country, UN, recognition among others as sound country… I say BS.. as long as we have govt like Turkish govt and people like those people who demonstrated themselves as clowns, no one will take Turkey seriously.. not on intelligence or democtratic side anyway… Turkey is only strong cause of the stolen wealth from others…
Gayane
Gayane jan, I think you would like this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmjFVmN1PyE
Thanks Jay…Thanks…
You inspired me to add few words…
I think Jack Kevorkiana’s soul
Still breathing in Us
And he will never die…
Because He loved people
Who were in pain
He wanted them…to rest
He was Unlucky
Few spirits understood his grasp…
Matt Monro…I feel… He is alive singing for every “Honest Hart…Not only mine…
Honest Love
Always Cries
To stay Alive
Honest Love
Is rare
But still
Some Have
You can’t touch
But you can feel
Even if one day
Away…sighs
I have mine
I hope for every
Deserved person
To have…
Sylva -MD-Poetry
Written Instantly
Seereli Sylva,
Thanks, for your kind words and for sharing your beautiful poem. Vartzget Gadar.
Jay jan– thank you so much for the song.. what a powerful, lovely, and such heart warming song… i believe Dr. Jack had that honest love toward his patients ..
Sylva jan- thank you for your great wishes.:) because everyone who deserves it should find that honest love… Astvats dzaynt lse…:)
Gayane