Once again Turkey is yanking our chain! Once again they have us, the hounds, chasing the plastic rabbit in a dog race—this time, in the form of a church in Akhtamar.
Turkey, in a shrewd move, has allowed an Armenian pilgrimage to the ancient monastery to celebrate the Divine Liturgy. The centuries-old Sourp Khatch Church built on the island of Akhtamar in Lake Van was ransacked by the Turks, and yes also by some Kurds. It was a deliberate decision made to erase any trace of an Armenian presence in what is now Turkey. This was not the only one; some 2,200 like it have been demolished or converted to barns, mosques, or storage facilities.
Once again, with their acts, the Turks have succeeded in dividing us, this time into three: those who are anxious to go for the pilgrimage, those who are not, and those who don’t give a damn about it or the controversy it has generated.
Proponents of the project think that by going to Akhtamar they will lay claim to its deed, and once again Akhtamar will come home to Mother Armenia. Some feel God will hear them better this time around, when previously in Akhtamar, Van, and other parts of Western Armenia he was oblivious to their prayers. At the time, God, church, and religion did nothing to help. Guns did. Vanetsis blazing guns did away with some 700 voracious Kurds in Khanasor and allowed them to live securely in their homes until later, when Russia sold them down the pike.
What difference does it make if one prays at Akhtamar’s Sourp Khatch Church or within the confines of one’s home? God can hear if he chooses to.
With this Akhtamar joke, the Turks have kept us busy analyzing their intents: Why did they do it? Why now? Everyone has his—or sometimes another’s—theory and interpretation to propel and vie for. They give it legs to stand on, until the fiasco is out of their system; then they wait for the next plastic rabbit to be thrown into the race.
The most common explanation is that Turkey is attempting to divert attention from its ills and manipulate public opinion, especially that in Europe, which had mandated, with the Lausanne Treaty of 1923, the preservation of some minority rights, specifically that of the Armenians and Greeks, who are still protected Turkish citizens with privileges of speaking and teaching their language and holding church services. Kurds, Assyrians, and other ethnic minorities are just citizens; the Christians among them have no right to worship their God in public, and all of them have no right to speak or teach their mother tongue.
Others claim that the church has been converted into a museum, and this Turkish decision is to promote tourism. My friend Ramzi Kartal, the exiled Kurdish representative in the Turkish Parliament from Van, whose district includes Akhtamar, told me that after the initial destructive operations, he and the Kurds of Van protected the monastery of Akhtamar and prevented further ransacking of the holy site. Regardless, the church has an unstable dome and no cross adorning it.
I watched on TV the patriarch of Istanbul addressing this issue. He said that through his efforts, the government has promised to allow the placement of a 200-pound cross, which he had readied for the occasion of the Mass, but that the government has ruled it can only be erected after the Divine Liturgy is celebrated. He also said, “If the government turns over the deed of Sourp Khatch over to me, I would not be able to accept it because of lack of funds. I will not be able to man it because my entire clergy, including me, number only 27. The Istanbul community numbers 70,000; there are 700,000 Armenians living in Turkey who are afraid to disclose their ethnic identity. I know them, and I will not be able to serve them. But for the wealthy Armenians of Istanbul, we cannot meet the expenses of what we have here in Istanbul.”
Armenians are suckers! Naiveté has been our national trademark throughout centuries, and the 21st is no different. We are chasing an artificial issue like pilgrimage to a church rather than being concerned about the 700,000 Armenians who are afraid to call themselves Armenian. This huge asset is rotting, and we are sitting here doing nothing other than arguing about a church. We are ignoring their call, we are ignoring our call, and the nation’s call for claiming our land. We are chasing a plastic rabbit created by Turkey and ignoring the larger cause outlined by the Sevres Treaty, which defines Western Armenia. We are oblivious to the impact of implementing Sevres on Karabagh. We are oblivious to the effect the Sevres may have on furthering our alliance with the Kurds, who are struggling for their identity and their rights. We are oblivious to the fact that Kurds are our partners in destiny; they have their rights, and we have ours, in a piece of real estate that we have inherited throughout millennia from our forefathers.
We are slow in strengthening our alliance with the Kurds in Turkey or Europe. A visit to Iraqi Kurdistan by two representatives of the ARF as participants in the Socialist International was an exercise in futility—they were in the wrong church and the wrong pew. More on that on another occasion!
Our leadership has the obligation to find the right church and the right pew, and to stop chasing a plastic rabbit, be it the Akhtamar church—with or without its cross—or some other ludicrous issue.
Dr. Henry Astarjian
Latest posts by Dr. Henry Astarjian (see all)
- Astarjian: A Quadruple Historic Bypass - February 2, 2015
- Astarjian: Hypocrisy or Ineptitude? - September 28, 2013
- Armeno-Kurdish Relations: Love Fest or Divorce Settlement Meetings? - August 19, 2012
Astarjian says ” God will hear you from anywhere. You dont have to go to Akdamar.” It is not the religious sentiments of Armenians he cares. It is actually the political leverage he thinks he is losing that he is all worried about.
If you think Akdamar is not an important place to pray at, then why do you worry about people going there and praying?
Hye, the Turks latest PLOY.. to deceive the world that they have rebuilt our Holy Cross Armenian Church at Akhtamar…. too, deceiving Armenians by “granting” one day of religious services without the Armenian cross exhibited (?) and within the edifice which today is not a religious site instead a Turks’ museum which glorifies the Turkish leaders who planned and committed the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation. How contemptible, how degrading, these Turkish leaders treat Armenians – ongoing since the 1890s, to defile and destroy any and all that are of the Armenians culture. A culture which the Turk thought so well that the Turks claimed Armenians culture to be as if the hordes from the Asian mountains shall have owned rather than stole from the Armenians! A Turkey is a Turkey is a Turkey. Its leaderships’ mentality is as the Ottomans and they wallow and are proud of that mentality – devious as it appears before the world. Do these leaders get their jollies by dangling bits before Christian Armenians? If one were to defile the Muslim religion the way the Turks have defiled the Armenian religion their howls would be heard worldwide – a religion which to date appears to be used to suppress even its own people, debases their women, and bullies nations and peoples via their Genocides – since the 19th, 20th and 21st century – today the Kurds. Turkey, in desperation uses all manner of distractions, none of any honest content, to distract and demean Armenians before the world – and most of the time the Turk shoots himself in his foot to accomplish his devious PLOYS – unending, since the Turk continues into agreements/disagreements, roadmaps/not roadmaps, not even sure what they will next pursue – what next to employ as their next PLOY. The USA lobbyists employed by a Turkey must be busy with Turks’ changing positions/actions changing from day to day – unending/ongoing. Manooshag
he is absolutely right.
I agree with you Manooshag 100%…
It disgusts me to know that Turks will take any means possible to deceive the world but we all know the truth…there is no hiding… we know the true face behind that fake mask of theirs..
Hell with them..
Gayane
Holy cross church (with no cross) will have same faith as Hagia Sophia end up as a Mosque then to museum. Turkish AKP propaganda machine loves to put up a Turkish wedding show in front of EU and American politicians…the latest political move from Turks indicate how desperate they are for the opening ceremony of the church…they love to televise on CNN Turk, while their president will do a “political business show” on same day with members of US Congress…
On Sept. 19 Mr. Gul will bring a lot of Turkish delights for his followers, especially for Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton..
Dr. Astarjian, I have read your column for some time. Your are obviously a person of intelligence and well read. However, your recent commentary on the Akhtamar situation deeply concerns me. It seems to be that your views are driven by your hatred of Turks and your frustration with Armenian leadership. Although we all seem to agree that the political motivation of the Turks is despicable, belittling your own people is inappropriate. You label anyone who who has any thoughts of support for this event as naive. Isn’t it possible for somone to be politically astute and understanding exactly what the Turks motivation is; yet not be intimidated and sincerely want to have our holy mass said at this revered site?
I am also very concerned with your anti-church and anti-religious slant. The Armenian people are not a secular community. Our faith and our heritage are inseparable. Purely political and secular thinking has its place, but is not what drives the heart of the Armenian people. If you understood that, you would not have made such a ridiculous statement as” At the time, God, church and religion did nothing to help”. God has blessed the Armenian people with the gift of strength and survival. And it will be with His blessing that we will receive justice for our cause.
You make, in my view, many important points on political alliances and strategy. I personally find merit in them, but you dilute the effectiveness of these comments by insulting your own people as “naive and suckers”. The importance of worshipping in our historic treasures should never be ignored. It is our faith that has allowed us to endure. Remember what Vartan and his army did before the epic Battle of Avarayr… they prayed, particiapted in the Holy Badarak and received Holy Communion. Our cause, especially in Western Armenia, must gain public attention and build momentum from issue that are relevant. The exposure of continued Turkish oppression of our land and churches is an opportunity to link our faith driven culture and our political interests.
Stepan, you may recall that I have often found myself agreeing with you on these pages. You sometimes say what is in my heart much better than I can say it myself. The above comment was such an example and I thank you especially for this statement:
“God has blessed the Armenian people with the gift of strength and survival. And it will be with His blessing that we will receive justice for our cause.”
It is inspirational and uplifting. I am going to commit it to memory. It reframes our plight not as merely unfortunate victims but a people who have the strength to persevere against tremendous odds, not despite our faith, but because of the place of our faith in shaping our national character. This is the kind of thinking that helps people move past nonconstructive anger and hopelessness (which Karekin is always warning us about) to determination and purpose (which mjm, katia mescheci, anahit, gayane, you and many others rally us to).
Mr. Astarjian is an intelligent influential voice in our community and I too often agree with his insights. But in this case, I think you make a valid point when you remind him that there are more dimensions to be considered when judging those who may go to Akhtamar. The wish to honor and demonstrate a spiritual connection to the place is for many very compelling and it is an effort to elevate what would otherwise be a purely profane political event. It should not to be mocked by those who don’t experience the same feeling, but accepted as a valid expression of Armenian patriotism for some among us.
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Dear Stepan and Boyajian:
I also concur with both your sentiments regarding Dr. Astarjian’s unnecessarily insensitive comments regarding Christianity and religion in general (“God, church, and religion did nothing to help”). I have noticed these sentiments in some of his other articles. These comments are unnecessary, insensitive and irrelevant parts of his argument that do not strengthen nor weaken his conclusion, (which I happen to agree with in this case.)
Stepan is right on the mark with his statement: “God has blessed the Armenian people with the gift of strength and survival. And it will be with His blessing that we will receive justice for our cause.” I couldn’t agree more and would urge Dr. Astarjian to heed these words closely.
However, I take strong objection to the blasphemous accusation made by Stepan that Dr. Astarjian’s views are “driven” by his “hatred of Turks”. I think Dr. Astarjian is frustrated with Turkish ‘leadership’, which is a sentiment I believe the vast majority of us share for good reason but “hatred of Turks”? What is this accusation based on from his article? The fact that he is perhaps a frustrated atheist that doesn’t see any value in attending Turkey’s latest ploy that seeks to mock our existence on that land with a hollow show of supposed ‘contrition’ and ‘tolerance’??????
Is Mr. Sassounian, the RA and the three Hierarchical Seas of the Armenian Church also driven by the so called “hatred of Turks” because they strongly advocate not going to partake in Erdogan’s Aghtamar show?
I think it would be incredibly naive, shortsighted and reckless at best for Armenians to attend this PR stunt not because I’m driven to hate Turks or anyone else for that matter. It’s because there is not one shred of evidence indicating that Turkey is willing to change its intolerant policies on Armenians and Armenia. I too want Turkey to change its backwards policies on Armenians. But targeting Nisanyan and others with article 301, transforming our ancient Aghtamar into a “museum”, actively denying the truth of the genocide to this very day ARE NOT CONVINCING SIGNS THAT ANYTHING IS ANYWHERE NEAR CHANGING FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS. Stop trying to convince yourselves that what you want (i.e. Turkey to change), is actually reality. Turkey is not changing for our best interests. By attending this propaganda show we will endorse Turkish intolerance and be privy to the demise of our own cause left alone send the wrong message to world leaders. And this my friends is the reason why not a single one of us should be suckered into going to this most offensive display of “change”.
It’s Akhtamar not Akdamar
Yes, Ani, if I recall correctly Aghtamar comes from the tale of the sad call of the lover for his love, Tamar, who drowned, looking for him… in pain, he called out, Agh, Tamar… Thus, Aghtamar. Manooshag
Patrick, my comment is based on a tone I have observed over time. I do admit that this particular article is much stronger in its criticism of Armenians. Dr Astarjian is an insightful individual with significant influence. I am particularly tired of and sensitive to relentless attacks that tend to get regular Armenians all spun and continue to feed the anger and stereotypes. It may not be his intention. We need to feed our people with behaviors and actions that will make real progress. For example, any real progress will come about through changes within Turkey. We need to embrace those within Turkish society that are driving change. April 24 demonstrations in Istanbul, conferences in Ankara, petitions to apologize, the number of books published and yes even the unfortunate Akhtamar incident….alll are signs of change. How can we expect our people to embrace and support this change if they have been programmed for decades to react negatively to everything Turkish. Our public figures, journalists and leaders must help transform our people from an angry victim group to a politically savvy team ready to take advantage of all opportunities. My comments, hopefully, will be taken as an appeal for all to take a lead in this exciting evolution. We know how disgusting the “official” Turkey is. We need to focus on helping the enlightened elements become more influential. The answers for us lie within Turkey. I believe that our journalists, such as Dr. Astarjian, can help Thank you for your comments.
For the love of GOD please wake up! You seem to be stuck in the slave mentality of a now defunct ottoman empire. Unshackle yourself!
The Turks are not returning Akhtamar to the Armenians. They are not handing back the church to us not even as a “museum”. They are planning on making money off Akhtamar and using our presence there to justify it to the world. They are transforming it from a Church (a religious and sacred monument) into a profit making “museum”. Is this the type of “real change” you think is worthy of embracing and encouraging? Do you consider this “real progress” in line with “April 24 demonstrations in Istanbul, conferences in Ankara, petitions to apologize, the number of books published?
Is it?
Dear P,
…in other words, once Armenians start visiting Akhtamar museum, then Turkish “State Historians” will tell the world, that there was no Genocide in this land!!!Armenians left their own, and now they are returning after Turks renovate their beloved Akhtamar Church!!!
Armenians must smarten up ..why they don’t see the border is closed…if Turks really cares about Armenian Nation they should have open the border without precondition way before Akhtamar Church opening!! ALL THESE TURKISH CHURCH BUSINESSES WITH ARMENIANS IS A JOKE!!! of course Turks learn from Obama’s campaign…” time to change”.. Turks have too many things in their head and they are so confused just like their “headmaster” Ataturk, and they don’t intend to change, simply they are Turks..
Boyajian, thank you for your kinds words. You must give yourself more credit. You have expressed yourself very well. It is clear that you are a tribute to our people. I have learned a great deal from your comments.
Grish says that ‘Armenians must smarten up’. So true. If a strategy that has been followed and pursued for many decades has not produced the desired result, don’t you think it might be time to at least consider, if not initiate, a new one that might? Diasporan Armenians have largely worked to keep Turkey at an arm’s length distance and have been very hesitant and distrustful. What kinds of positive results has this produced? Yet, the president of Armenia has not only gone to Turkey, but has met with the president there. His government’s approach appears to be alot more pragmatic, with the goal of achieving a win-win outcome all around. This is not easy, especially when the larger, more powerful player holds all the cards, but I sense that the Armenian govt. sees an opportunity with Turkey’s new leaders and so has made a cautious effort in that direction. It should be applauded, not derided. And, if we truly love Akhtamar so much, rather than criticize the work done there, we should not only support any effort to preserve it but become active participants in that effort, rather than allowing Turkey to control the ball in this game. We may be small, but that does not mean our only role is to throw a negative shadow on such activities. As it is said, you reap what you sow. Let’s sow seeds of goodwill…and see what the outcome will be. It can’t be any worse than shunning Turkey, which over the last 90 + years, hasn’t produced the outcomes we in the diaspora would like to see. That’s why it’s time for a change in approach and attitude.
The president of Armenia has gone to Turkey as a result of international pressure by those who stood behind his and Davutoghlu’s back in Switzerland, and not by his own initiative. What exactly was the outcome of the “cautious effort” in the direction of engaging the Turkish government? Armenians at large—whether in the Republic or the Diaspora—haven’t supported such an initiative nor was it put on national referendum to ask for an opinion of the people. The effort was defeatist and capitulating in nature because the protocols contained provisions—such as subcommission on historical issues (read: genocide); recognition of existing borders in the region; and acceptance of agreements—that no other such memorandums on establishing diplomatic relations would contain in the international practice. Had these documents contained one sentence, roughly: “The governments of Turkey and Armenia hereby agree to establish diplomatic relations and open the common border,” no one either in Diaspora or the Republic would oppose them. As for Akhtamar, it’s not an “effort” per se, it’s a mockery to transform a Christian church into a museum, and then, as a PR stunt and a tourist attraction gesture, allow it to function just for a day, with holy relics effectively desecrated inside and with no cross outside. If it’s true that you reap what you sow, than chronologically Turkey would have to reap what she sowed in 1915-1923. We’re not idiots to sow goodwill to unrepentant murderers. In Holy Bible, Mathew 7:6, Jesus teaches us: “Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet…” We in the Diaspora aren’t aiming at Turkey to produce what we’d like to see. We’re aiming at international recognition of Turkish crime as genocide, and our efforts have produced essential results worldwide.
Repeating the same actions over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. If Armenians want certain things from Turkey and haven’t gotten them for the last 90 years, perhaps that’s because of a strategic flaw that needs correcting. It’s not that the wants and needs are wrong, but that the approach is ineffective and needs updating. Time to rethink, regroup and restrategize to get results. Think of your own life, if you’ve tried something over and over again, but don’t seem to get the results you want, don’t you realize it’s time to change tactics? I suspect Pres. Sarkisyan and his team have thought about this long and hard, and are trying to adjust their approach to make it more results oriented. 90 years of disappointment is way too long folks…time to take ownership of the issue as well as the failure to get those results after such a long time. Let’s address our own failures and maybe the outcomes will be different and more positive.
Our actions are being repeated not because we’re insane, but because Turkey remains unrepentant and denilaist state. Don’t shift emphases. We don’t need “certain things from Turks” it’s below us as a victim-nation; we need international recognition of the genocide committed by them. If Turks repent in the process, fine. If not, our efforts will continue. We don’t have to befriend a murderer nation in order to make her repentant; it is the Turks who need to come to an understanding that they need to wash off the stigma of a genocide-perpetrator nation and the nickname “barbarian Turks” as they came to be known in the world. Analogy with ones’ own life when one tries something over and over again, but then realizes he needs to change tactics to get the results, is irrelevant. Armenians need justice for themselves, it’s not some lucrative thing that attracts a person at a certain age so he tries to possess it over and over again. It’s an international acknowledgment of a crime against humanity, not just Armenian nation. Because of an ugly world we live in and emphasis on political not moral considerations that nations tend to make, acknowledgment takes time. Jews waited for about 40 years to have the Germans repent and admit the guilt for the genocide of the Jews. There’s no doubt in my mind that Turks will be made to admit the guilt for the genocide they’ve committed even we it takes another 90 years.
I strongly object to those who posit that the reason Armenians have not achieved their goal for justice with Turkey is due solely to the notion that Armenian’s “approach for the past 90 years has been ineffective.” it’s not that I think there is no need to reevaluate and re-strategize from time to time, or to shift policies and programs. There is no doubt that our goal has not yet been achieved, but Armenians who blame other Armenians without recognizing that geopolitical dynamics play a major role in determining outcomes in power struggles around the world, are very short sighted, analytically deficient and verging on self-deprecation.
Armenians need to stand together, encouraging each other to gather hope from the fact that we have persevered through thousands of years of turmoil, conquerors, and shifting borders while other groups have not fared as well. We are still here. We have a free and independent nation. We have a rich culture and a vibrant history. The story of the Armenians is not dead history. Our story is a testament to faith, commitment to family and innovation in the face of adversity. God is still with us. There is more ahead. Those who have decided that the struggle is futile and want rapprochement with Turkey without accountability should feel free to move on and stop being a discouraging and negative force toward those who are working toward justice.
Although I understand that Dr. Astarjian’s article was a little too harsh, I have to say that I agree with the overall observation that Turkey knows us so well, that it knows how to distract us, it knows how we will be lured by a renovated church, while they draw up long term well studied plans of how to slowly erase any trace of the Armenians from Eastern Armenia. “Come we will put the cross on your church… oh sorry can’t”… We have to be careful not to be distracted… Guys, Turkey is not giving us Akhtamar back… We should stop chasing plastic rabbits and beating around the bush and do the bold thing and CLAIM OUR LANDS BACK!! Instead of responding to Turkey’s game, Armenia should tell Turkey to stop playing around with our churches and our lands, and start paying up what is due to us. The longer the Armenian Nation stays quiet about the Sevres Treaty about the Genocide and Western Armenia,… the more time and luxury we are offering the Turks to move along with their plans of annihilating our race and culture.
I don’t deny that the goal of genocide recognition and acknowledgement is well worthwhile, but if that’s really the goal, why would you repeatedly insult those whom you want to give you that recognition? You may not think that behavior is insane, but it’s clearly not producing the results you want from the group of people you most want to give it to you, so yes, it is and has been, ineffective. As my grandmother always said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Please notice that this adage says nothing about loving flies or even liking them…just about catching them. The bottom line is that you don’t catch much by using a sour, bitter, angry approach…no matter what or whom the target is…flies or Turks or anyone else. If you can’t understand that then you don’t understand basic human psychology, and that’s a huge liability when trying to achieve anything in the world.
Karekin, you say: “Let’s address our own failures and maybe the outcomes will be different and more positive.”
Your flawed perceptions exemplify the “failures” of our cause. How would you suggest we “address” rectifying your erroneous perceptions?
Expecting to be treated differently by the Turks with a slavish adherence to their attempts at manipulation never worked for our great grandparents and their ancestors as proven during our enslavement under ottoman rule that culminated with the Genocide. Expecting anything different by embracing that same approach today is insane.
Defeatism is NOT a plausible solution in the face of outright bigotry and injustice. Advocating a defeatist approach with our Turkish neighbors would only repeat our history.
Karekin, why do you worry about insulting Turks when they have stolen, killed, raped and prostituted our homeland for centuries. I don’t get it. I don’t believe in appeasing their residual Ottoman mentality. We are not “insulting” individual Turks; their history insults them. This is not hate; this is truth.
They should feel shame by the truth we speak against their Ottoman ancestors and the inheritors of the CUP in the modern Turkish government and legal system today. Why should I hang my head and stammer in fear of offending those who have harmed us so greatly? I feel no need to spare them of this shame, but I gladly hold my hand out to welcome any individual Turk who would be willing to accept the truth and offer a sincere apology.
We should hold our heads high in the knowledge that we are a strong people who have survived the worst that humanity can dish out and are here to speak against it and for others who have suffered similarly. This said, I still agree that it is wise to re-examine and re-strategize our approach if necessary for optimal results, but I will not pretend to agree with a Turkish version of the truth about the first genocide of the twentieth century.
Let’s face facts….you may think Turks should feel shame about their history, but have you ever considered that they don’t even know their own history, especially from the our (the minority) point of view? Our view of history is vastly different from theirs. Just as two people can look at a blob of ink on paper and see two vastly different things, our two communities are not seeing the same things. This is largely because the truth has been hidden and kept under wraps for most Turks. Most Armenians don’t seem to realize this and once they do, they might understand that before there can be any acceptance of the Armenian thesis or point of view, there must be open and honest education. In the US, there is still a huge gap in how white Americans see American history and how black or native Americans see it. How can that be? Well, just talk to any minority group member in the US and you’ll find out. Even in 2010, white Americans are often shocked at the facts once they hear them from a minority, and often discount them as lies. Sound familiar? Why should it be any different in Turkey? In fact, it’s much worse. And, the only way to overcome that gap is thru interaction, discussion and the sharing of experiences. Our facts are not their facts, at least at this point in time. The challenge is to show how our experiences overlap and have been shared over 900+ years of interaction, both as a subject people and as the ruling class, the good and the bad. Like it or not, there was a functional, symbiotic relationship that developed and was destroyed in 1915. Until we are all on the same page and talking about the same issues in the same language, with a vocabulary that we all understand, it will be very hard to reach across the divide. I would encourage all of us to reconsider our approach, especially if we really want to reach our goals.
Karekin, I have to give you credit for commitment to your point of view. But what I miss in your comments is any suggestion of how this needed new approach should look or function. Can you give specific examples?
I agree that educating individual Turkish citizens is important because most are uninformed or misinformed about our shared history. How do you propose we do this in a way that they will listen and understand what happened and know that acknowledgment and apology are in order?
Please don’t just repeat your mantra about bees, honey and vinegar. It is a truism we all accept. But what are some concrete ideas about things we can and should do differently to promote our cause?
Should we stop demonstrating?
Should we stop trying to get our governments to recognize the genocide?
Should we write to Turkish newspapers rather than preach to the choir in our own papers?
Should we hold public discussions with Turks in academic settings to debate the facts?
Should we make movies and write books?
Should we accept the Turkish POV that it was a civil war?
Should we accept blame for our national aspirations that angered the CUP?
Should we forgive and forget and accept our losses?
Should we concentrate on supporting Armenia and Artsakh and forget Western Armenia?
Should we invite Turks to our churches for get to know you chats?
What should we do? This a short list among hundreds of different approaches which represent both conciliatory and educational goals. Is this what you have in mind?
Karekin, I just have to add to my comment above that I believe that throughout our long history with the Turks we have tried being the polite, good Armenians who don’t rock the boat. We have also tried being the loyal workers and prized artisans who shared their skill and talent with their masters. We have worked hard to pay our unfair taxes. We have politely appeased the village governors. We have quietly spoken Armenian in our homes, while taking Muslim names and “being good Turkish citizens.” We sacrificed our sons to the army only to never see them again. We have had to keep our mouths shut while Turks teach lies as history and misrepresent us as aggressive and ungrateful. How has any of this benefited us? Did the Turkish governments ever view us as anything other than second-class or obstacles to their pan-turanic goal?
What new approach remains that doesn’t ‘insult’ Turks and politely invites them to engage in dialogue with us? How do we honey drench the truth enough for them to accept it without compromising our voice against crimes against humanity? Unless you have some very novel ideas, it seems to me that you are willing to insult Armenians by asking them to wear a muzzle to avoid insulting the Turks.
Some truths are hard to swallow.
Sireli Boyajian,
As you probably realize, this is a difficult task, but not an insurmountable one. The fact is, due to changes instiituted after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, very few Turks are fully aware of the role the minorities (which is a misnomer…true Turks were actually a ruling – minority) played in Ottoman and earlier, Seljuk history. The problem is that nationalist ideologues, many of whom were not even truly Turkish at all, latched onto the idea of Turkey for the Turks, and penalized those who would not voluntarily become ‘Turkish’.
While I don’t support the idea of a ‘genocide commission’, since the genocide is settled history, I do support the idea of Armenian academics holding symposia and inviting Turkish academics, scholars and even political figures to attend. Ideas, concepts and our view of history needs to be introduced much in the same way African-American slave history or even native American history has been introduced to white, Anglo-Americans. Until very recently, the myths surrounding the conquest of the new world completely overshadowed the dirty little secrets of history. For instance, only recently did we learn that the wealth of New England, which was largely abolitionist, actually came from the slave trade, either thru trade in rum, or cotton or textile production…and this, only 150 years after slavery ended. Only recently, we learned that Thomas Jefferson had children via one of his slaves. Why has it taken so long for this information to surface? Again…Turkey’s new rulers sought to cleanse the memory banks of its citizens, remove any memories of the Ottoman Empire unless they could exalt something or someone Turkish and replace them with a long list of myths, designed to promote Turkishness.
In any event, here are my responses to your questions – any of which are just suggestions and thoughts, and thus open to change or modification. I hope it’s not too long or too repetitive.
Should we stop demonstrating? No, but perhaps the tone can/should change to something positive rather than something demeaning, i.e., Remember the past, Remember the victims. Instead of Turkey = genocide. Encourage Turks and Turkey to see Armenians in a different light. Ask for dialogue, rather than closing all doors to it. Remember that today’s Turks are not those who masterminded the genocide, and in many cases, their families may not have been living in Turkey at that time, so the disconnects are many.
Should we stop trying to get our governments to recognize the genocide? Pragmatically, the only government that really matters is the Turkish govt. Even if every govt recognized the genocide, would that sway Turkey in that direction? I’m not so sure. Turkey needs to be engaged in a way that will open hearts and minds (I know, that sounds trite) on a mass scale. To me, this means involving not only academics and those at the top, but also those who are less educated, on a more personal level. They need to know and understand that Armenians are not the demons who destroyed Ottoman Turkey, which is largely the state of mind today due to propaganda, misinformation and lack of information.
Should we write to Turkish newspapers rather than preach to the choir in our own papers?
Yes, I absolutely believe this would be a positive approach, as much as it might be possible, it is worth trying. Not just write to them, but encourage them to interview Armenian academics and print the interviews simultaneously in both the Armenian and Turkish media. We need to remember that our families lived under Ottoman rule, not just for a few years, but for several hundred generations. The collective memory in the Armenian community about Ottoman times is as important and as valid as that of any Turk…perhaps moreso, as we can read our texts from that era, whereas they can’t read anything in old Turkish. In that sense, we have alot to offer today’s Turks with a point of view they may have never encountered or considered before.
Should we hold public discussions with Turks in academic settings to debate the facts? Of course we should. Armenians for the most part, are aware of their history, but there are quite a few factoids, some of them unpleasant, that they need to hear about as well. So, it should not be a debate, but rather a sharing of information and points of view.
Should we make movies and write books? Why not?
Should we accept the Turkish POV that it was a civil war? No, because it was not a civil war at all, it was a war waged by the ruling elite (the CUP) against its own citizens, but it did not involve every Turk. To call Armenian self-defense a civil war is just propaganda and that fact should be exposed to the Turkish public.
Should we accept blame for our national aspirations that angered the CUP? Our national aspirations ran into trouble for several reasons, one of which is that what our revolutionary leaders saw as historical Armenia overlapped with what Turkish leaders saw as the historic heart of Turkey. Couple that with the fact that Armenians lived on both sides of a very sensitive border and the tricks played by the CUP leaders and sadly, Armenians ended up getting the short end of the stick. They lost not only people (75% of all Ottoman Armenians), but also their historic homeland. The other thing is that it really wasn’t our national aspirations that angered the CUP to launch a genocide, it was the financial decay of the empire that came from many devastating wars, as well as involvement in WWI, and the huge influx of Muslim refugees from areas that were lost.
Should we forgive and forget and accept our losses? As difficult as this might be, it may be inevitable, particularly if we want to see our losses recognized as being the result of a genocidal policy by the CUP. Moreover, I think we need to target our blame. The Turkish people did not collectively vote on having a genocide, it was forced on them by a group of rogue, criminally minded rulers, many of whom went to trial and were found guilty of massive crimes against humanity. Am I to be held guilty in the killing of a million Iraqis by the Bush administration, just because I hold American citizenship? I sure hope not.
Should we concentrate on supporting Armenia and Artsakh and forget Western Armenia? Today’s Armenia and Artsakh are the only hope we have for the future. This doesn’t mean forgetting western/historic Armenia, unless we also want the Turkish public to forget that most Armenians originated there. Quite the contrary….I think we need to highlight historic Armenia every chance we have and insure that the Armenian presence there not be overlooked or ignored. If we forget about it and turn our back on it, how can we expect anyone else to recognize the Armenian role in that part of the world?
Should we invite Turks to our churches for get to know you chats? Sure, why not? Not just to churches, but to all kinds of activities, because so much of what we know as being emblematic of Armenian culture, would be very familiar to them. Alot of good can come from that kind of comfort level. In many ways, like it or not, we have much more in common culturally with Turks than with any other group on the planet, other than the Persians, because for many centuries, more Armenians lived under Turkish rule than anywhere else.
Our hands are not so clean. If you’re so hyped up about Akhtamar, why not direct some energy towards the numerous church ruins in Armenia and Karabagh…that very sadly, have been defaced by Armenians:
http://hetq.am/en/photostory/gtchavank/
Karekin, what do you expect from “holy USSR” they destroyed and eliminate churches and believes just like Turks did to us in the past….those graffities on church walls mostly came from Soviet times….our country Armenia is less than 20 years old, and we all know they are not perfect …they need time and education to gain what ever we have lost in the past centuries …we have been abused by Soviets and Turks…we have a very young republic and they need our support and time and education…we are surviving nation and WE WILL BE THERE for sure.
It seems to me I WAS RIGHT ABOUT YOU IN VERY BEGINNING in this forum….yes you have played a Turkish card with an Armenian name..
Once again, my fellow Armenians have shown themselves to be as intolerant of other ideas as those they demonize on these pages almost every day. It’s really very sad that you cannot see outside the invisible lines of your little boxes, because those lines have you locked into a mindset that is depressing and unchanging, as well as hostile. If you can justify being so hostile to your fellow Armenians, I feel sorry for you. I grew up inside that exact same box and am very happy to outside of it now, because now I can look in with a different set of eyes and I can see things you won’t allow yourselves to see. Like fish inside an aquarium, you have no idea what the outside world is like. Please, try to free your minds and free yourselves from the shackles that keep you in perpetual anger, fear and hatred. You don’t see it, but it is counterproductive and very, very unattractive.
I’d like to offer my comments to your answers to Boyajian’s questions, Karekin.
“Should we stop demonstrating?
No, but perhaps the tone can/should change to something positive rather than something demeaning, i.e., Remember the past, Remember the victims. Instead of Turkey = genocide. Encourage Turks and Turkey to see Armenians in a different light. Ask for dialogue, rather than closing all doors to it.”
My comment: OK, suppose we changed the tone to “Remember the past, Remember the victims.” I’d expect the Turks would immediately reiterate: “What past, what victims?” Even if this supposedly generates curiosity on their part, how would they know the truth if the very archival materials on the Hamidian and Young Turk regimes are in Arabic script? Also, you yourself admit that “Turkey’s new rulers sought to cleanse the memory banks of its citizens, remove any memories of the Ottoman Empire unless they could exalt something or someone Turkish and replace them with a long list of myths, designed to promote Turkishness.” So, how do you go about this? As for a dialogue, who closes all doors to it? Armenians? Enumerate instances when there were clear-cut dialogue invitations on the part of the Turks and Armenians “closed all doors to it?” Also, I don’t’ think we need to “ask” for dialogue: we were not the ones who wiped out 80% of the Turks from the face of the earth to “ask” for a dialogue. And here begins a long sequence of “how?” questions. How do you technically maintain “dialogue,” if Turkey keeps the border with Armenia closed even for people-to-people exchanges?
“Should we stop trying to get our governments to recognize the genocide?
Pragmatically, the only government that really matters is the Turkish govt. Even if every govt recognized the genocide, would that sway Turkey in that direction? I’m not so sure. Turkey needs to be engaged in a way that will open hearts and minds (I know, that sounds trite) on a mass scale. To me, this means involving not only academics and those at the top, but also those who are less educated, on a more personal level.”
My comment: Wrong. The Turkish government is not the only one that matters. Had it been so, the Turks wouldn’t s*** their a** off each time a new foreign government or organization recognizes the Armenian genocide. If all major governments—clearly, not all world governments—recognized the genocide, it wouldn’t essentially matter if Turkey’s swayed in that direction, because wider international recognition can impose punishment on a genocide-perpetrator and give the Armenians an upper-hand in taking the matter to international courts. Engaging Turkey in a way ‘that will open hearts and minds on a mass scale’ is not the Armenians’ prerogative per se, and also technically unfeasible given the discrepancy of the population ratio. It’s the prerogative of their government. As for involving those who are less educated, the same “how?” question arises. How do you technically do that if Turkey keeps the border with Armenia closed even for people-to-people exchanges?
“Should we write to Turkish newspapers rather than preach to the choir in our own papers?
Yes, I absolutely believe this would be a positive approach. Not just write to them, but encourage them to interview Armenian academics and print the interviews simultaneously in both the Armenian and Turkish media.”
My comment: How many times Turks allowed academic exchanges with Armenian scholars and, even more so, printed interviews with them in the Turkish media? What makes you think our views will be allowed to be expressed and printed by their governments who, as you admit, “cleansed the memory banks of its citizen and removed any memories of the Ottoman Empire”?
“Should we hold public discussions with Turks in academic settings to debate the facts?
Of course we should. Armenians for the most part, are aware of their history, but there are quite a few factoids, some of them unpleasant, that they need to hear about as well.”
My comment: This may be done, but such an initiative may also run the huge risk of suppressing the genocide recognition issue with never-ending academic debates that’d, obviously, benefit the Turks in the long run. The format for such public discussions must be strictly informal, carried out on an individual level, i.e. no group of academics representing Armenia’s National Academy of Sciences should be involved; only an academic in his or her individual capacity for a particular discussion.
“Should we accept the Turkish POV that it was a civil war?
No, because it was not a civil war at all, it was a war waged by the ruling elite (the CUP) against its own citizens, but it did not involve every Turk.”
My comment: It simply could not physically involve every Turk, but this weak argument should be secondary—as, in reality, it was—and be portrayed only as an augmentation for the primary argument, namely: the extermination of Armenians was premeditated and carried out by the official Ottoman Turkish government, as well as hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of local administrations’ executives, governors, village heads, gendarmes, army commanders, soldiers—all in their official capacity, as well as the Chettes and millions of ordinary Turks and Kurds.
“Should we accept blame for our national aspirations that angered the CUP?
Our national aspirations ran into trouble for several reasons, one of which is that what our revolutionary leaders saw as historical Armenia overlapped with what Turkish leaders saw as the historic heart of Turkey. Couple that with the fact that Armenians lived on both sides of a very sensitive border and the tricks played by the CUP leaders and sadly, Armenians ended up getting the short end of the stick.”
My comment: Not exactly so. First, Armenians didn’t live on both sides of a very sensitive border. Only a few Armenian provinces, such as Kars and Van, were geographically close to the WWI’s Caucasus campaign involving Russia, but not to the campaign’s frontline per se. Other provinces or communities were in the remote central part of the empire, in Cilicia, in Istanbul, where there were no military campaigns or frontlines at all. Moreover, starting 1915 the Russians have already started withdrawing from all fronts, whereas the Turkish slaughters of Armenians continued up until 1923. The reasons for perpetrating the genocide are deeper than “our revolutionary leaders’ [witnessing] as historical Armenia overlapped with what Turkish leaders [vision] as the historic heart of Turkey.” They lay in the programmatic policy of the Young Turks aimed at “Ottomanizing the empire,” in their own words, that’s been laid out much earlier than 1915: already in 1907 and 1910.
“Should we forgive and forget and accept our losses?
As difficult as this might be, it may be inevitable, particularly if we want to see our losses recognized as being the result of a genocidal policy by the CUP. Moreover, I think we need to target our blame. The Turkish people did not collectively vote on having a genocide, it was forced on them by a group of rogue, criminally minded rulers, many of whom went to trial and were found guilty of massive crimes against humanity.”
My comment: In your dreams, Karekin. If you dared to throw this in the face of the Jews, you’d be put on a barrel of gunpowder. I fail to see any logical line between recognition of genocidal policy of the CUP and our forgetfulness and acceptance of losses. Why and how should the victims forget losses in order to receive justice? Isn’t the contrary more characteristic to the normal human way of thinking?
“Should we concentrate on supporting Armenia and Artsakh and forget Western Armenia?
Today’s Armenia and Artsakh are the only hope we have for the future.”
My comment: I bet during the Soviet times you’d say: “Soviet Armenia is the only hope we have for the future,” and then when Armenia became independent ad fought for Artsakh, you’d say: “The Republic of Armenia is the only hope we have for the future,” and then when both Armenia and Artsakh became independent, you’d say what you now say: “Today’s Armenia and Artsakh are the only hope we have for the future.” But, Karekin, both entities were non-existent just 20 years ago. How can you, a fallible human being, be sure what the only hope can be for the whole nation? The political world itself is not static, it changes, it transforms. How can anyone be sure what might be the only hope for a nation, or a region, or a state, or a continent? Are state boundaries today the same as they were in the beginning of the 19th century? Is the political map the same as it was in the 20th century? Don’t we see old empires collapsing and new states emerging on it? Just how cock-sure can you be about this ever-changing, chaotic globe?
“Should we invite Turks to our churches for get to know you chats?
Sure, why not? In many ways, like it or not, we have much more in common culturally with Turks than with any other group on the planet, other than the Persians, because for many centuries, more Armenians lived under Turkish rule than anywhere else.”
My comment: I wouldn’t say that I personally have anything in common culturally with Turks. Maybe you do, since you appear to suffer from Tukophillia or your parents might be originally from Constantinople. However, millions of Armenians, such as those living in Armenia and beyond, have more cultural affinity with Christian Russians. Besides, by definition we can’t be culturally close with Turks because we belong to different ethnic and linguistic groups, practice different religions, and Armenians lived on this planet long before the world came to know who the h** the Turks are. Don’t forget that their nomadic forefathers settled in the lands of others, hence their “culture” is nothing else than another theft from the cultures of nobler, more civilized peoples inhabiting Asia Minor. Armenians haven’t lived under the Turkish rule more than anywhere else. Armenians lived in the Ottoman empire from the 16th century until 1915 of the 20th century. This is roughly just 500 years out of almost 4000 year-long Armenian history. Besides, Eastern Armenia has never been under the Turkish rule. Stop twisting the facts.